DERRELL NELSON – AUTHOR OF “TOUR DE HOOPS: BIGGER THAN BASKETBALL” & OVERSEAS PRO PLAYER – EPISODE 862
Email – derrelltdh@gmail.com
Instagram – @tourdehoops
If you listen to and love the Hoop Heads Podcast, please consider giving us a small tip that will help in our quest to become the #1 basketball coaching podcast.
Derrell Nelson was born and raised in inner city Rochester, New York. Derrell’s book, Tour de Hoops: Bigger Than Basketball tells of his experiences playing basketball overseas.
Derrell had an up and down career in high school before being cut as a senior, He graduated from Le Moyne College with a bachelor’s degree in business management and finance. He began graduate school in 2015 at Cardiff University in the United Kingdom where he played for the men’s basketball team, accomplishing a life-long dream.
In 2016, Derrell won the MVP award for his college basketball team in the UK. After playing only one year of college basketball, he decided to turn pro overseas. He has experienced some of the best and worst things that come with playing professional basketball and learned some life lessons along the way that he shares in his new book, Tour de Hoops: Bigger Than Basketball.
If you’re looking to improve your coaching please consider joining the Hoop Heads Mentorship Program. We believe that having a mentor is the best way to maximize your potential and become a transformational coach. By matching you up with one of our experienced mentors you’ll develop a one on one relationship that will help your coaching, your team, your program, and your mindset. The Hoop Heads Mentorship Program delivers mentoring services to basketball coaches at all levels through our team of experienced Head Coaches. Find out more at hoopheadspod.com or shoot me an email directly mike@hoopheadspod.com
Be sure to follow us on Twitter and Instagram @hoopheadspod for the latest updates on episodes, guests, and events from the Hoop Heads Pod.
You’ll want to have a notebook by your side as you listen to this episode with Derrell Nelson, author of the book, Tour de Hoops: Bigger Than Basketball.
What We Discuss with Derrell Nelson
- The moment that inspired him to write Tour de Hoops
- How seeing LeBron play when he was a kid helped him fall in love with the game of basketball
- Participating in MBS – Mind, Body, and Soul
- Not getting a chance to play AAU in high school
- Different ways to get exposure as a high school player
- Having to quit his high school freshman team because his parents weren’t happy with his grades
- Getting in trouble at school and having to leave the jv team again as a sophomore
- Transferring schools and not playing much as a junior before getting cut under a new coach as a senior
- His decision to attend LeMoyne and trying out for the team there 3 times, getting cut each time
- Getting his grades together and graduating from LeMoyne
- The business class lecture that sparked his interest in playing overseas
- “I knew that I wasn’t going to get the opportunity to play at Le Moyne, so I started to redirect my focus towards playing in grad school overseas.”
- Going to grad school at Cardiff University in the United Kingdom where he was able to play one season of college basketball.
- The challenge of finding an agent to represent him
- Playing one season in the UK for no pay to try and get some exposure
- Playing for the Rochester Razor Sharks and having that season cut short by COVID
- How COVID eliminated another opportunity in the UK with the Reading Rockets forcing him to eventually return to the Rochester Razor Sharks for a second season
- Flying to Valencia, Spain to participate in the EuroPro Basket Camp and the disappointment he felt after not receiving any offers
- “I invested all this money, I didn’t get the opportunity I was looking for. What do I do?”
- His experience trying out for the Sixers G League Team
- Changing his mindset and understanding that he can give back to the game without being on the court.
- “If I’m out there playing, having fun, I’m at peace.”
Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!
We’re excited to partner with Dr. Dish, the world’s best shooting machine! Mention the Hoop Heads Podcast when you place your order and get $300 off a brand new state of the art Dr. Dish Shooting Machine!
Prepare like the pros with the all new FastDraw and FastScout. FastDraw has been the number one play diagramming software for coaches for years, and now with it’s integrated web platform, coaches have the ability to add video to plays and share them directly to their players Android and iPhones via their mobile app. Coaches can also create customized scouting reports, upload and send game and practice film straight to the mobile app. Your players and staff have never been as prepared for games as they will after using FastDraw & FastScout. You’ll see quickly why FastModel Sports has the most compelling and intuitive basketball software out there! In addition to a great product, they also provide basketball coaching content and resources through their blog and playbank, which features over 8,000 free plays and drills from their online coaching community. For access to these plays and more information, visit fastmodelsports.com or follow them on Twitter @FastModel. Use Promo code HHP15 to save 15%
Your first impression is everything when applying for a new coaching job. A professional coaching portfolio is the tool that highlights your coaching achievements and philosophies and, most of all, helps separate you and your abilities from the other applicants.
The key to landing a new coaching job is to demonstrate to the hiring committee your attention to detail, level of preparedness, and your professionalism. Not only does a coaching portfolio allow you to exhibit these qualities, it also allows you to present your personal philosophies on coaching, leadership, and program development in an organized manner.
The Coaching Portfolio Guide is an instructional, membership-based website that helps you develop a personalized portfolio. Each section of the portfolio guide provides detailed instructions on how to organize your portfolio in a professional manner. The guide also provides sample documents for each section of your portfolio that you can copy, modify, and add to your personal portfolio.
SportsLab360 is an online platform that empowers youth basketball players to increase their Basketball IQ. It is made up of engaging, interactive modules that focus on different tactical concepts, from the basics of reading a ball screen, to specific offenses such as the dribble drive. Coaches assign these modules as basketball homework for their players, and can track player progress and scoring, as well as input custom notes within the modules.
By working through the modules before practice, players arrive with a cognitive head-start on the topic, and coaches can get much more out of a single practice. Simply put, rather than having to try and progress from A all the way to Z, SportsLab360 takes care of the first letters of the alphabet, allowing coaches to more quickly move on to the next layer, imprinting their own philosophy and style of play.
SportsLab360 launched in soccer about 6 years ago with lots of success, and have just recently launched in basketball.
THANKS, DERRELL NELSON
If you enjoyed this episode with Derrell Nelson let him know by clicking on the link below and sending him a quick shoutout on Twitter:
Click here to thank Derrell Nelson on Twitter
Click here to let Mike & Jason know about your number one takeaway from this episode!
And if you want us to answer your questions on one of our upcoming weekly NBA episodes, drop us a line at mike@hoopheadspod.com.
TRANSCRIPT FOR DERRELL NELSON – AUTHOR OF “TOUR DE HOOPS: BIGGER THAN BASKETBALL” & OVERSEAS PRO PLAYER – EPISODE 862
[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by Derrell Nelson, author of Tour de Hoops, Bigger Than Basketball, and overseas professional player. Derrell, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.
[00:00:15] Derrell Nelson: Hey, what’s going on, Mike? Thanks for having me.
[00:00:18] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. Thrilled to have you on. Looking forward to diving into the book, hearing a lot of the stories that you have to tell. It’s one of our favorite parts of the podcast where we talk to people who have played in various places around the world to share some of their favorite stories.
I know you’ve got a bunch of them that you’re ready to share with us. Let’s start off the top here by giving you a chance to tell people a little bit about the book, Tour de Hoops, where it came from, give us a quick summary where people can find the book, and then we’ll dive into your story.
[00:00:46] Derrell Nelson: Absolutely. Appreciate it. So, yeah, the book is called Tour de Hoops Bigger Than Basketball. It was just released this past March of this year, so it’s been out for about, I want to say, five to six months now. And you can purchase the book on Amazon. com. It’s available on Kindle, paperback, and hardcover.
So those are the three formats you can purchase the book. And just a little quick summary. It’s about my basketball journey pretty much starting as a kid all the way through high school different things I experienced, the challenges, the ups, the downs, the highs, the lows different players I was able to play with, compete against some are in the NBA, some played overseas and pretty much, yes, it talks about my basketball journey.
[00:01:40] Mike Klinzing: Where’d the inspiration come from? When did you know you wanted to write a book?
[00:01:44] Derrell Nelson: Okay, that’s a good question. So, I would have to say I initially got the idea of writing a book and telling my story when I was playing in the ABA in Louisiana.
[00:01:58] Mike Klinzing: Was there one moment where it just hit you in my true neck, like, while we’re off?
You’re like, hey, man, I think it was… This life story.
[00:02:06] Derrell Nelson: Yeah, absolutely. So I want to say there was a time when I was at practice in Louisiana and we’re competing. I was competing against the starting shooting guard at the time. And we were playing one on one and pretty much I destroyed him.
It was a one on one game, but I destroyed him in front of the head of coach and that specific season. I wasn’t getting as much minutes and there was a lot of politics going on. So after that happened, I started to think like, I really want to share this story. I feel like this will really inspire some players who may have similar challenges playing at the pro level or whatever level, and I want to also say during 2020 when I was overseas in the UK playing during the pandemic, that also inspired me to write the book and tell my side of the story, because that was obviously a different time in our history. So I wanted to share the story and let people know what it was like pursuing the overseas basketball career during that time period.
Tour de Hoops really it came from the, the bicycle race in France. I don’t know if people are familiar with it Tour de France.
And what Tour de France is, it’s like the, I believe it’s the world’s biggest cycling race. And It’s very challenging and I sort of compared that to my basketball journey as a kid all the way up into the pros. It was very challenging. So instead of Tour de France, I changed it into Tour de Hoops.
And if you read the book there’s a lot of different stories in there, different things I experienced, well, I feel that my journey is bigger than basketball.
[00:04:01] Mike Klinzing: Let’s dive into the journey. Let’s go back in time to when you were a kid, born in Rochester, New York. Tell me a little bit about some of your first experiences in the game of basketball.
[00:04:12] Derrell Nelson: For sure, for sure. So, I want to say in chapter one I talk about when I first really fell in love with the game my older brother, I was going to see him play in one of his high school games. He went to a private Jesuit school in Rochester called McQuaid Jesuit School. Are you familiar with that one?
[00:04:35] Mike Klinzing: I am, because I just met Jack Leasure on the podcast. He’s the head coach there.
[00:04:41] Derrell Nelson: No way, Jack Leasure. Yeah, so that’s, that’s so ironic. Jack Leasure was actually on my brother’s team.
[00:04:50] Mike Klinzing: So, see, all these little tentacles intersect. It’s kind of amazing. As you well know, the basketball world is incredibly small and interconnected and so, yeah, we just, in fact, Jack’s episode, I believe, went up on Sunday night, so yeah, just, it’s in the last five days, he’s put an episode out, we talked to Jack like, about two and a half weeks ago, so…
[00:05:21] Derrell Nelson: Crazy. Wow, that’s so crazy. That’s so ironic right there. Yeah, so at the time, I don’t know if Jack might have mentioned it, but when he was playing for McQuaid, they were pretty good.
[00:05:32] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, well, we talked about all the guys on that team.
[00:05:34] Derrell Nelson: Oh, yeah, a lot of D1 prospects, a lot of D1 players there. And pretty much when my brother was playing on that team they were ranked nationally. And there was a time where my brother had a tournament in New Jersey.
And we had to take a road trip out there to see him play. So long story short they play, they have the game out of New Jersey. Unfortunately they lost the game. But after the game, I noticed the stairs started getting crowded, not the bleachers, but the arena just started getting crowded with fans, with reporters and… I’m only around nine years old at the time. So I’m looking around like what’s going on. And little did I know LeBron James shows up with the St. Vincent, St. Mary’s Irish team. I didn’t know who LeBron was at the time. So he plays the game.
He drops 50, 50 points and he’s dunking on people. They’re trying to double team. They cannot stop him. And I was really amazed after that time and that’s really when I first really, I would say, fell in love with the game of basketball.
[00:06:51] Mike Klinzing: What was the biggest thing, I’m just curious, because I saw LeBron for the first time.
I had heard of him before, and he’s from, obviously, from out there, and I’m from Cleveland, so I had heard of him before, his junior season, but I saw him play at Cleveland State University in his junior year, and I’ll give you my impressions of what stood out for me, but when you think back, obviously, you were a little bit younger.
When you saw him than I was, but what do you remember specifically about LeBron? Obviously, he’s scoring 50 points and nobody can stop him. But was there any specific thing that stood out? You know, like, man, this guy just has whatever it is. And I’ll share what I thought my things were when I watched him.
[00:07:27] Derrell Nelson: For sure, for sure. From what I can remember, he was just so dominant. Like, like at his size he was able to handle the ball very good. As a guard does, but just in terms of his, of his all around game, he was so dominant and I remember this because I’m pretty sure they were trying to double team him for majority of the game and for him to still put up 50 points and just do those amazing things.
That’s what really stuck out for me. How about you though? What would you notice?
[00:08:03] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, so for me, I think the biggest thing that stood out, I mean, again, I could probably name 50 things, but the one thing that stood out to me more than anything was just how much ground he covered. And how fast, he would be running.
And again, we’re talking about, he’s playing against really good high school players, but still mostly normal high school players. And he would go from half court to the basket in like, four steps, whether he was filling the lane on a break, whether he had the ball in his hands. It’s fun. Just his sheer speed up and down the floor, and not even speed like where you think of a guy who’s completely exerting themself, and his arms are flailing all over the place, and this guy’s running as hard as he can.
I mean, LeBron, just from that age when he was probably 16, maybe when I saw him, maybe 17, floated down the court, and the strides were just so long, and I remember being like, this guy just does not look like… Anybody else I’ve ever seen. The other guy that I saw in high school, I don’t know if you remember Jimmy Jackson, who played at Ohio State.
He went to Toledo Montgomery here in the state of Ohio, but my dad and I, this is, so I’m going back a long time, because I think I was probably in, man, I’m trying to think, I was probably in maybe 10th grade, and we had just heard about this kid, Jimmy Jackson. This is obviously pre internet and everything else, And so he played, he was playing at a local high school here in our area, Elyria High School, and my dad and I just decided, hey, we’re going to go watch this game.
We had never seen the guy, so obviously today if you went and saw somebody, you’d watch their highlights or you’d know exactly who they are, what they look like, and we had no idea, we just knew this name. So we show up at the school and you’re kind of sitting there, JV game goes on, JV game ends, and you know, you’re waiting for the team to come out, the band’s playing, and I just remember when Jimmy Jackson came out, he was in 10th grade at the time.
And he came out and he looked probably the same way he did when he was at Ohio State and when he was early in his career with the Mavericks and the NBA, I mean, he was just a different, I mean, he was just huge. Built completely differently. Looked like a man in 10th grade. And then he had the NBA body already.
Yeah, NBA body at 10th grade. I mean, just. Incredible. And then, obviously, tremendously skilled player and just looked like, I mean, he looked like a guy who was seven, eight years older than all the guys he was playing against, and yet he was only a 10th grader at the time. So, those are the two guys when I think about high school players who were just completely otherworldly in terms of what their body looked like and their appeal for the game.
LeBron and Jimmy Jackson for me are the two that stand out. So, it’s cool that you got to see him early before Before he became super well known, when you’re talking about him in high school, I know that it was funny because here in Cleveland, when he was, I want to say maybe even by the time he was a junior, he was already going and scrimmaging with Cavs players.
Are you serious? Yeah, and there was talk like in town that like, If this dude was was coming out in the draft between his sophomore and junior year, after his junior year, like he would that this guy’s surefire number one pick. And you just remember reading these stories and being like, come on, man, this kid’s 16 years old or 17 years old.
There’s no way he can be the number one pick. Right. I would say that what LeBron accomplished, regardless of whether you think him or Jordan is the greatest of all time, he’s undisputably one of the top two players in the history of the league.
[00:11:41] Derrell Nelson: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No doubt about that. No doubt about that.
[00:11:46] Mike Klinzing: With the hype that that guy had, can you imagine like having that kind of scrutiny on you from the time you were 15 years old and then trying to live up to it? And then actually… living up to it. I mean, it’s incredible. It’s absolutely incredible.
[00:11:55] Derrell Nelson: Yeah, he literally exceeded the expectations and his expectations were already so high, which is crazy like for him to have four championships and go back to Cleveland and him just passing Kareem for that all time scoring.
Record. He just, he just really, he’s one to one and it’s debatable him or Jordan, but you know what he’s accomplished in his career and it’s still going. It’s just amazing.
[00:12:23] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, you cannot argue with the success he’s had. All right. So that kind of got you started, got you hooked on the game.
Obviously you had been watching your brother who had some success and got you watching the game. And now as you start to get a little bit more serious about it, what do you remember about working to try to get better from the time, let’s say you’re middle school, high school. What are you doing on your own to get better?
How are you improving your game? Are you playing pickup? Are you in the gym by yourself? What’s the process for getting better?
[00:12:52] Derrell Nelson: Yeah, So a lot of times I will go to the local rec center. That’s where I will play pickup. And get some shots up by myself. That’s what I remember getting better.
Unfortunately, I never got the chance to play AAU at the time. It was expensive for my parents to afford. And I never really got that opportunity. And looking back, I thought like, okay I need to play AAU. I need to get on that basketball circuit if I want to play at the next level.
And that was always one thing I kind of feel like I wish I had the opportunity to do but other than that, playing in youth leagues, playing at the rec center and working out with different players in the community. I was in a program called MBS stands for mind, body and soul.
And this specific program they train athletes in basketball, football, baseball. And I was working out with a personal trainer in that program starting in high school. I want to say starting from 10th grade all the way up through 12th grade.
[00:14:05] Mike Klinzing: All right. Can I ask you a question about AAU in general?
I’m curious, and it kind of relates to your story, and I think it’s an issue that sometimes gets talked about, but not all the time. And that’s, you’ve talked a little bit about it. You would have liked to have played AAU basketball, but maybe your parents… Couldn’t afford it. And you look at the way that basketball has changed over the last 50 years, and you think about how in the early days of basketball you always hear It was a city game, and you had lots of guys that made it to the league that came out of New York City, that came out of the big cities from across the country, and now, in so many ways, like, we’ve priced kids from the inner city out of the process, because maybe their parents can’t afford it, maybe they can’t, or need their job to drive to these tournaments, and in so many ways, I think that The game has been suburban eyes, or just maybe it’s become too expensive.
And I was curious if you’ve thought about that at all and kind of how you think about it?
[00:15:07] Derrell Nelson: Yeah, no, that’s a real good question. Now, I do feel like the AAU platform gives you a better opportunity at getting looked at by college coaches and obviously, if you can’t afford to play in it or whatever, stopping you from playing in AAU if you’re not able to play, that obviously limits your ability to get seen.
However I think that now there’s a little bit more exposure if you don’t play with social media out there and different outlets and platforms going to camps and different things like that where you can still get some good exposure if you’re a young player.
And you don’t have the opportunity to play AAU, but I feel like when I was growing up, it was really AAU or you had to be some phenom averaging 30 or 40 in high school and getting letters from NCAA recruits and stuff like that. I feel like those are really the only two ways to know, to get that exposure you’re looking for.
[00:16:13] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, it’s so true. I mean, the AAU side of it, I think is really important. My son’s going to be a senior this year, and I would say that all of the attention that he’s gotten from college recruiting has all come through his AAU setting, not through his high school setting. And so I think it’s just one of those things that in basketball, we have to make sure that we’re mindful of to make sure that we’re not excluding particular groups. And I think it’s a problem, not just in basketball, but I think in youth sports in general, everything can become so expensive when we think about hiring a trainer and just all stuff like the travel and staying in hotels and all these things.
And obviously, if a kid’s good enough and they could play on a circuit team or a sponsored team or a a team that gets paid for, that works out great. It’s just some of those kids that are maybe A level below that, how do we make sure that we’re not missing out on those? I think that’s a it’s just something for everyone out there in the basketball world to consider.
I know you had a unique experience. Go ahead. If you’re going to say something on that.
[00:17:16] Derrell Nelson: tNo, no, you’re good. Yeah, definitely. You’re absolutely right. And also I want to say in AAU circuit. It also gives kids an opportunity to get high level coaching because you look at if you just play in high school, not to say that there aren’t some great high school coaches out there, but AAU, I’ve been around that environment.
It gives you an opportunity to really work on your game and work on specifics. And also play against competition that is nationally recognized. So I think that’s another advantage in terms of playing AAU, along with the exposure.
[00:17:52] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, no question about that. I mean, I think it’s, if you get in the right program with the right coaches, and you get people that care about you and your development, there’s no question that it was a huge.
Tell me a little bit about your high school experience. I know it went maybe not the way that you would have imagined it or dreamed it to be, but just tell us a little bit about what your experience was like as a high school player.
[00:18:17] Derrell Nelson: Right, right. Absolutely. So I started high school at Bishop Kearney High School.
So private school in Rochester, New York. Started there. I played on the freshman team my freshman year. The season went good. I was in the starting lineup. I would say I was relatively at the same level or maybe a little bit higher than my peers as a freshman. But yeah, so I played on the freshman team my freshman year didn’t finish that season.
My grades weren’t up to par with my parents standards and I had to unfortunately quit the team that year. I talk about it in the book it was a challenging time for me. You know, first year in high school, I hit a game winner that season as well. So I was really on the high. And unfortunately I wasn’t able to finish that season.
Going to my sophomore year, I stayed at Bishop Kearney and I played on the JV team that year. So obviously higher level, different coach, I started at the three that year, so I started at the small forward. It was a relatively successful season. We won some games. However, I didn’t finish that season either.
Got into some trouble in school. And once again, our parents made me turn in my jersey. Didn’t finish that season. So, as you can see, I had a lot of stumbling blocks all throughout my high school career, which prevented me from even finishing the full season. So then fast forward to my junior year, I transfer out of Bishop Kearney to a public school school called Wilson Magnet High School. And this was a big change for me not only on the basketball court, but even just going to school, you know we didn’t have to wear uniforms a lot of less restrictions there, but just going to the basketball court, I made the team. I made varsity my junior year. I wasn’t in the starting lineup or I wasn’t even in the substitution rotation. So this was a major change for me coming from Bishop Kearney where I was starting my first two years. Obviously varsity is a higher level and I will say that my high school team they were ranked in the state.
I think we were ranked. Maybe top 20 in New York State at one point, we were undefeated for majority of that season. So we had a pretty good team. However, I rarely seen the floor that year and that was when I started to second guess my ability to have doubts and I was able to finish that season.
I was able to finish that complete season. We went to the playoffs, fell short, but, I finished that season and then going into my senior year we got a new coach. The coach Wilson resigned after 20 years coaching there, 20 plus years coaching. And this new coach he cut me from the team my senior year.
So that’s, that’s how my high school career went.
[00:21:23] Mike Klinzing: When you think about the things that happened to you over the course of those four years, so your parents pulled you off the team twice for various reasons. You don’t get as much playing time as you thought you should have as a junior, cut as a senior.
Obviously, in the moment, those are tough pills for a kid to swallow. And I’m sure in the moment, if you went back and talked to 15, 16, 17, 18 year old Darrell, you would have felt one way about it. When you look back on those moments now, how do you look at them differently and how do you think that they shaped what you ended up doing with the game in the future, if you can put that into words?
[00:22:07] Derrell Nelson: For sure, for sure. Yeah, like, from what I can remember, like, I’ll tell you this, when I got cut my senior year, that was one of the saddest times I can remember, you know one of the reasons was because I wanted to play at the college level. And obviously, as I said before, I never played AAU.
So, my opportunity to play college was all really depending on my senior year because I didn’t get any playing time my junior year. So I was really devastated when that happened. I didn’t go to school for like three or four days. I remember my mom came in my room because I was telling her I was sick, but I really, I just, I couldn’t get myself up to get out of the bed.
I was that devastated. Pretty much, it was a real challenging time and I actually stepped away from the game after I got cut for a month or two until I could gain my confidence back, my charisma back, and my passion to play the game and… I’ll say that that’s really when the chip got on my shoulder to motivate me to be the best player that I can be, regardless of what coach believes in me regardless of what happened my senior year, that really help get me more determined to achieve my goal of playing college basketball and even playing at a higher level.
[00:23:32] Mike Klinzing: So what’s the process like for you to try to get that college opportunity? Because the two most common avenues that a player is going to have to be able to. Get the attention of a college coach’s AAU, which obviously you didn’t have the opportunity to do, and then through your high school years and being watched while you’re playing there, which you didn’t have quite the opportunity that you would hope there either.
So, how did you go about, for lack of a better way of saying it, marketing yourself? To colleges and trying to get yourself an opportunity. What did that look like?
[00:24:08] Derrell Nelson: Yeah, so, like you said, it’s, it’s practically almost impossible to get on the college roster and roster without playing at those 2 levels.
So at that point my senior year I was offered an academic scholarship to go to Lemoyne in Syracuse. Are you familiar with Lemoyne? I am, yes. Yes. So I got offered an academic scholarship to go there. It’s only an hour and a half away from my hometown in Rochester. So I said, Hey well, if I go here, they’re division two, how about I try out for the team and become a walk on player?
That was my mindset at that time. Wherever I go, I want to be a walk on player. I’m obviously not going to be a scholarship athlete. I’ll be a walk on and work my way up to scale, maybe get some minutes and whatnot. So I attended LeMoyne all four years.
I tried out for the team three out of the four years. I got cut all three times. The first year, I believe I was one of the better players there. The assistant coach was asking me a few questions during the tryout, but… He didn’t take any walk ons my first year trying out. The other two years I got cut.
I don’t, one of the years he might’ve picked up someone who wasn’t at the tryout and the third year he didn’t pick anyone up. So I wasn’t able to play NCAA basketball at all for any of those four years at LeMoyne.
[00:25:42] Mike Klinzing: But clearly, you made a big change academically from your freshman year in high school when your parents pulled you off the team because they didn’t feel like your grades were up to par.
Can you tell us a little bit about that transformation? Was that something that you made a conscious effort of, Hey, I’m going to take my academics more seriously, or just what did that turnaround look like for you?
[00:26:02] Derrell Nelson: Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly what happened. You know, after I didn’t, after my parents took me off the team the amount 2 years in high school I really decided to take academics more serious because I didn’t want that to be the factor of me not playing or me not finishing the season because I, I still remember those feelings when I had to turn my jersey in in a plastic bag and tell the coach I’m done, like, it’s a terrible feeling especially for someone who loves the game, knows that they can contribute to the team.
It’s a terrible feeling, so I let that fuel me to make sure that my grades and my studies were up to par, so that wouldn’t be an issue.
[00:26:51] Mike Klinzing: What are you thinking about in terms of a future career? Are you still holding on to the basketball dream the whole time this is going on? Are you starting to look at it and say, maybe I’m not going to get to do the things that I had hoped to do? In the game, I know that you got a degree in business management and finance.
So were you thinking that, hey, once I graduate from Lemoyne, I’m going to be heading out to the real world. Were you still trying to figure out a way? Maybe there’s going to be an opportunity for me somehow, some way that I can catch on. What was the plan as you were approaching the end of those 4 years at Lemoyne?
[00:27:31] Derrell Nelson: Right, right. So after the 3rd year I got cut basketball has just always been a big part of my life and it was never a choice or it was never doing it to be cool or for clout. It was a part of me. So there was a time my senior year at LeMoyne and I’m going to one of my business classes and it’s a normal lecture, but we happen to have a guest speaker this specific day.
And she’s an alumni at Le Moyne and she comes in and talks to us about her business that recruits players to play a sport overseas and grad school and the crazy thing about this story is I was thinking about skipping that class sleeping in, but I dragged myself to class that day and it was one of the best decisions I ever made because.
That really opened the door for me playing a game of basketball in grad school, and definitely led to some much more opportunities, I never gave up on playing the game, but I knew that I wasn’t going to get the opportunity to play at Le Moyne, so I started to redirect my focus towards playing in grad school overseas.
[00:28:53] Mike Klinzing: What a really unique opportunity that It’s kind of just so coincidental and awesome that that happened to come across your path and gave you this sort of second chance at life. What was it like, first of all, going to school in another country? Had you ever been to England before? What was it like going culturally, academically?
So when I’m a basketball part of it, what was it like adjusting to that new life when you went overseas to Cardiff?
[00:29:27] Derrell Nelson: Yeah, it was amazing. It was amazing. Like you said, everything happens for a reason. And I was so glad that I was able to hear about that opportunity. So I applied to Cardiff University.
And I got in I honestly didn’t know where Cardiff University was. Never heard of it. I was just focused on the opportunity to play basketball in college. And Cardiff is a Russell Group University. So out there in the UK, it’s like the equivalent of an Ivy League school like Oxford or Cambridge or one of those prestigious schools.
And I honestly didn’t know that either when I was applying to the school. But I got accepted and I finished out at Le Moyne. I graduated in May of 2015. And then school starts there in September. So I caught a flight from my hometown of Rochester to Cardiff University, which is located in Wales, United Kingdom.
So it’s actually outside of England. And I started grad school there in September of 2015. Basketball season started in October. You know, the sports there is taken less serious than the NCAA and states. One thing I remember was we only had practice, maybe. three times a week and then we had games every Wednesday.
In the UK they called it like Bucks Wednesday British University College Sports Wednesday where all the sports they play their games on Wednesdays. So that was a little bit about the sports culture there.
[00:31:05] Mike Klinzing: How’s the level of play? Compare to what the level of play that you might have seen at LeMoyne.
[00:31:12] Derrell Nelson: For sure. For sure. You know, I will compare Cardiff University because we’re in the Bucks Division I league. I will compare it to low D3 NCAA level, you know but it’s D1 there. But in terms of skill level and the caliber, I will have to compare to low D3 level NCAA. A lot of times when I will play against teams, they will have maybe one or two guys who are actually studying abroad from the USA, and they might have came from a D1 school.
So that will obviously raise the level of play on that team. And then you also have people from the European players from the European countries Spain and Greece who basketball is obviously big there as well. So they had a good skill set to them as well. You know funny story, a guy on my team named Dimitris he was from Greece and he was six foot 10.
And this is what he told us at least. He said he knew Giannis before Giannis got to the league.
[00:32:19] Mike Klinzing: Him and every other guy from Greece.
[00:32:21] Derrell Nelson: That’s why I’m like, he’s like, yeah Giannis didn’t start playing basketball until he was 16. I know Giannis. I’m just like, okay, man.
[00:32:28] Mike Klinzing: Everybody’s got a story.
[00:32:34] Derrell Nelson: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Of course. But no, I actually enjoy playing with different players from the European countries because even in Spain, they have a different style of play and I just tried to learn from them and incorporate that into my game playing in the UK.
[00:32:51] Mike Klinzing: So after that year playing for Cardiff is up, where’s your mindset? What are you thinking about? And how do you turn that dream of becoming? Professional player for a guy who had very little opportunity in high school, very little opportunity. As a college player in the United States, how did you start thinking about, hey, I think I can have a professional career over here in Europe? What did that look like?
[00:33:20] Derrell Nelson: Oh, yeah. You know, I was on a high after that one season. You know, I averaged 21. I won the MVP. I was hitting game winners and I was really on the high that season and it was, it was a time where I’m in my dorm out there in the UK and I’m like, you know what this is, it gave me the confidence I needed and I always knew that I could play at a high level, but that one year really gave me the confidence.
So I decided, okay, I’m going to, I’m going to start this pro journey after I finished grad school. So that’s when I began to reach out to agents and trying out for teams.
[00:34:03] Mike Klinzing: How’d you pick an agent? What was that process like?
[00:34:07] Derrell Nelson: Okay, so, obviously, I was an under the radar player. So, agents are knocking down my door, calling me up trying to put me on the team.
So, I had to be proactive in terms of searching, doing my research online going on the FIBA database. Obviously oversees basketball network searching their checking agents resumes as how many players have they placed? Are they reliable? Will they even take a chance on me?
You know, because even though I played that one year in the UK, I’m still under the radar player. When you look at the whole basketball market, you look at. MCAA players, D1, D2, D3. Everyone’s trying to play pro basketball overseas. So I’m competing with all of those players on top of the, players already overseas. So I had to be proactive with my agent search and I’m trying to find the best guy to do the job.
[00:35:08] Mike Klinzing: When you found somebody. What made that person stick out? What was it about them that events was?
[00:35:17] Derrell Nelson: Well I went through a couple bad agents in my journey, and the one that stuck out was the one who really watched my film and he really believed in what I was capable of doing.
And he already worked with teams out there. So that gave me the confidence that if he’s already worked with teams and he knows I can contribute and be an asset to a team. You know, there was agents out there that I’ve talked to that has never signed a player before, but they were eager to sign me and as a not early 20s, 22, 23, you know I didn’t understand at the point, like, okay, I kind of want to go for someone more reliable and not the first agent to say, Hey, I’ll take you on without any experience. So definitely an agent who’s worked with teams, who plays players and believes in my skill set. Those are the three main factors I will have to say.
[00:36:22] Mike Klinzing: What’s the first job and how excited are you when you get that first job?
[00:36:28] Derrell Nelson: So I want to say Cardiff City which is a pro team out in Cardiff.
That was the first time got the opportunity to play. I was real excited. It’s not BBL, which is the top league in the UK. It’s NBL, but I was real excited to play pretty much. I was already a student there, so I was familiar with the city and I was familiar with the team as well, just from living there and it was a great opportunity.
I got a chance to win a local championship there, a bunch of exposure and I got awarded an MVP award there as well.
[00:37:09] Mike Klinzing: Any problems getting paid that first gig?
[00:37:12] Derrell Nelson: Well, that’s the thing because it was a low, yeah, yeah. You know what I’m getting at. Yeah, 100%. 100%. Because it was a low level, they weren’t even paying, and I don’t want to say that I was exploited, but when you when you’re under the radar player, and you work in your way up the ladder you got to make some sacrifices if and that’s if you really want to play at the pro level, like if you don’t, and maybe the basketball career is not for you, but for me, I knew I was an under the radar player and I needed to get film.
I need to get some type of overseas exposure. So I took the offer, even though they weren’t paying me. I had housing covered and food, but I didn’t get paid, which is definitely not any lucrative career for a pro basketball player.
[00:38:10] Mike Klinzing: So did you see on the horizon that. If you played well, which obviously you did, that we’re going to be able to parlay that into potentially what could become a paying job and then as you were thinking about that, how’d you go about doing that? What were the next steps?
[00:38:49] Derrell Nelson: Oh, for sure. For sure. I learned a lot that first year just in terms of imports, how they’re viewed overseas most teams get 1 or 2 imports, and those import spots are very valuable to the team.
In terms of getting paid I knew that I didn’t want to get in a situation like that again. I enjoyed my time playing out there. It was a great experience. I won the championship, played against some great competition. However I didn’t get paid and that wasn’t the goal. The goal was to be overseas competing and I’m getting paid. So I learned a lot from that experience. And just even with contracts with obligations, with agents, and I learned a whole lot.
[00:39:36] Mike Klinzing: After that first season with Cardif.
[00:39:43] Derrell Nelson: So, I went back home. I went back home to Rochester. I didn’t have any deals or offers after that season. What I did was I made a highlight tape of that season. And I sent it out to a bunch of teams in Europe. Bunch of teams, Germany, Spain, France countries that I was looking to potentially play in.
And I believe the year was 2019 when I got back home to Rochester. And offseason comes and it goes and still didn’t get any offers. Excuse me. So pretty much. The agent at the time who I was working with, he’s like Derrell, there’s a local team the Rochester Razor Sharks.
They’re pretty good. It’ll give you a chance to stay in shape until we find something for you overseas. And they definitely give you a chance to compete against some nice competition. They’re local. I was familiar with the hometown team, but I felt like that was taking a step backwards in a sense I just came from overseas.
And you know, I’m like I don’t know. But once it got late in the off season, August September, and I was without a deal, that’s when I started to take that opportunity more serious. And that’s how I ended up with the Rochester Razor Sharks.
[00:41:08] Mike Klinzing: What’s that experience like in terms of, not even so much the basketball, but just the off the court stuff and kind of how that team and that league ran? Give people an idea.
[00:41:19] Derrell Nelson: Okay. Yeah. So the Rochester Razor Sharks were in a semi pro league. I believe it was the PBL, Professional Basketball League.
It’s nothing like the G League, a little bit less organized. We did get paid though. We did get paid. They handled the traveling expenses for us. We got a bunch of exposure through the city, but just in terms of the league, we only played a difference of maybe five teams in that league.
Sometimes we would travel to their home court. We’ve traveled to Pennsylvania, Ohio, different, different places on the East Coast to play. We have fans in the stands. And that season specifically, 2019 going into 2020 we’re playing really good. We started off 8-0. Then we ended up catching a couple of losses.
However obviously at the end of 2019 going into 2020, Is when the pandemic hit and our season ended up getting shut down early 2020.
[00:42:28] Mike Klinzing: So besides getting the idea for the book during the pandemic, tell us a little bit about what you did, how you handled that. And just how that affected your career.
[00:42:39] Derrell Nelson: Yeah, that played a major role because after the season with the Razor Sharks I was looking to get right back overseas. And I had a little bit of film from the Sharks, and I felt like that should be enough to garner some interest from some teams. It wasn’t fast forward to July of 2020 when the government let up on travel restrictions, I decided, okay, I don’t have any offers, I don’t have any deals.
I’m going to wing it. I got a couple of hours saved up, I have some money saved up. I’m going to wing it catch a flight to the UK. And find a team myself I’m like, I’m not going to let this pandemic stop me. I’m not going to let nothing stop me. So that’s when I decided to fly to the UK in 2020, in the summer of 2020, back to the UK and search for a team.
When I got to the UK everyone’s saying, oh, the leagues don’t know if we’re going to start back up. We don’t have any sponsors, sponsors are canceling because of the pandemic. This, that, and the other. And you know, I’m out there. I’m working out with Cardiff City because that’s the only team I know.
I’m trying out for BBL teams. They’re not really progressing with the season. And there was a specific time in January of 2021, where I got an email from a, from a team in the UK the Reading Rockets, and they were looking to sign me and I was so excited and literally a week later Wales and the UK went on tier four lockdown, which is like the highest lockdown the country can go on for the COVID. I believe it was a second wave and. The team revoked the offer. So, that was really devastating for me because I feel like that was that was the closest I was getting to accomplishing my goal of playing pro basketball overseas.
[00:44:44] Mike Klinzing: So that opportunity falls through. What do you do next?
[00:44:47] Derrell Nelson: So that opportunity fell through. I fly back to the States. Now we’re in 2021. And I’m thinking, okay. What do I do now? I haven’t played last season besides the razor sharks. My agent, me and him went our separate ways and I was talking to some friends and they’re like you might want to give the razor sharks another opportunity since you’re not playing anywhere else.
So I didn’t want to because of my previous experience, I felt like that was more of a one year stint sort of, but I was left with no options, so I figured if I’m going to stay in game shape to eventually get back overseas, I’m going to give them another shot, so I played the second season with the Rochester Razor Sharks.
[00:45:41] Mike Klinzing: Obviously, that wasn’t what you were looking for. It wasn’t exactly what you were looking for, but you kept your career alive through a challenging time where, look, COVID, lots of schools didn’t get the opportunity to play. The NCAA tournament was canceled in the spring of 2020. The NBA obviously went into the bubble in that following season.
And so, even though it wasn’t exactly what you wanted, it did allow you to continue to play and pursue your dream. So, as the restrictions for COVID start to lighten up, and the world begins to open back up, after that season with the Razor Sharks, What happens next?
[00:46:23] Derrell Nelson: Yeah, so after that season with the razor sharks I got a highlight tape together of that season was pretty good.
Was going back and forth with some personnel on some teams in Germany. However, the off season came to an end and I believe it was August of 2021. And once again, I was without an offer. And there’s a camp in Spain the EuroPro Basket Camp. They’re known for placing players on teams overseas.
Whether that’s high profile players or under the radar players who didn’t get the opportunity. And what I did, what I decided was if I’m really going to do this. I’m going to invest in myself. You know, I’ve been working all summer. I’m going to save up some money, invest in myself.
If I really want this pro hoop dream to happen, I’m going to pay for this camp and I’m going to fly out to Spain and I’m going to get a offer there. So that’s what I did. I saved up my money and August of 2021, I flew out to Valencia, Spain for this Three week camp the EuroPro Basket Camp.
[00:47:30] Mike Klinzing: Describe for people what that was all about, what the experience was like, what you hoped to get out of this, and what eventually came out of that.
[00:47:39] Derrell Nelson: Oh yeah, oh yeah, so the camp based in Valencia, Spain. You and about. It all depends on the session that you go, but there’s you and about, I want to say 40 other players.
You guys are all there. Staying in a residence, some something like a dorm slash hotel. Obviously you pay to go there so your food is taken care of, your housing is taken care of. You’re there for three weeks. Pretty much it was set up how a pro basketball player overseas schedule will be set up.
So we had two a days, we would have a practice session in the morning finish off with stretching and have a lunch in between. And then we’ll have another session on the afternoon. And these sessions would last two to three hours a piece. So we’re going two a days working out with the coaches there were all.
We’re all former or current overseas pro coaches. So some were coaching pro in Luxembourg, some were coaching pro in Greece. So they all coached at some type of high level before, which was good. And, pretty much, yeah, for the three weeks we, we practice five days a week twice a day, and then on the weekends is when we played our games.
This specific camp, we also got the opportunity to play in the official Red Bull tournament where Red Bull came, we got jerseys, and we played in the official FIBA Red Bull tournament, which was pretty cool. But yeah, so five practice five days a week, games on the weekends. I felt like my performance was mediocre in the games.
And practices I would play very well and show some good signs. You know, coaches would let me know they see this, they see that. But when it came to game time, my stats just weren’t great. I mean, 10, 12 points, I just hold myself to a higher standard.
And I was obviously aiming to score at least 20 plus at the time. Because I consider myself a scorer. So, my performance wasn’t great in the games. And leading up to the end of the three weeks, you know you start to hear about different players getting offers. Okay, this one player got an offer to play in Canary Islands.
Oh, wow. You know, he’s a great player. I’m happy for him. You know, I don’t, I don’t have any jealous phone in my body. I was happy for anybody who got the opportunity and hear about different players getting offers and by the end of the camp I didn’t receive any offers.
And that was, that was very disappointing for me. Very disappointing to say the least.
[00:50:19] Mike Klinzing: That doesn’t go exactly with your hopes and it’s contagious through the span spent that time spent that energy spent that what do you do when it’s over and nothing has come to you how do you handle that and what do you do next?
[00:50:46] Derrell Nelson: I mean, it was a long flight home. It was a long flight home. I had a lot to think about at that point because I invested my money.
I would think I was 28 years old going on 29. And I had a lot to think about in terms of my future and okay, I invested all this money, I didn’t get the opportunity I was looking for. What do I do? You know, and when I got back home, I kind of you walked away from the game for a couple months I didn’t pick up a basketball.
I didn’t want to hear anything about it. You know and finally in 2022 I started contacting some more teams and I had to try out for a Canadian NBL team. And I also went to the 76ers G League tryout and the Canadian team, they actually gave me a 2nd call back. However, they ended up signing some of their former players and the NBA G League tryout, it went okay. The five on five, I’ll admit, I didn’t play up to my standards. However during the drills, I was knocking down shots playing basketball sound basketball. Jameer Nelson, he was actually, or he’s actually the GM of the 76ers G League team. So I was chatting with him a little bit about my journey and playing the game at a high level.
I didn’t perform high enough for to get a call back for the NBA G League standards. I knew that when I left the tryout but it was a privilege to be there it was a privilege to be there, compete at that level and be around the NBA environment so that’s what happened after I came back from Spain.
[00:52:37] Mike Klinzing: What was different about, let’s just say, the environment when you talked about the NBA environment versus let’s say your experience with the Razor Sharks, what’s different about how the G League looked and felt compared to what it was like with the Razor Sharks?
[00:52:53] Derrell Nelson: Yeah, yeah. So honestly the G League players athleticism almost everybody there is athletic everybody’s dunking, excuse me, excuse me doing windmills playing flashy.
The athleticism is there. What I will say though, is looking at all the talent. I felt like I was probably a top three jump shooter there in terms of pure jump shooter, jump shot, top three, top two jump shooter there, which I was surprised because you think about NBA, you think everyone’s a stud, but when I get there you got some athletic guys, you got some bigs who can handle the ball, but in terms of sharp shooters, I didn’t really see too much there.
So that’s one thing that actually surprised me. But in terms of the athleticism and the skills, obviously the skills are higher than what I’ve seen overseas and at the Razor Sharks, but definitely some great players there.
[00:53:54] Mike Klinzing: So you get an opportunity to try out with that team and you get to interact with Jameer Nelson, where do you go from there?
What are you thinking at that point?
[00:54:07] Derrell Nelson: Right. So, you know NBA is the highest you can get highest you can get. NBA G League. So at that point, I’m like, I’m going on 30 what’s next? You know, it’s my uncle always told me basketball is a young man’s game and And you look at LaMelo Ball Rookie of the Year, he was only like 18, you look at Ja Morant, a lot of these standout players are, are super young and the game is getting even younger Luka was playing pro at the age of 16, you know.
I started to think like I don’t know when this, this tour will be over it’s, it’s hard to hang up sneakers, but I don’t know when this tour will be over. So at this, at this stage, I’m reaching the end of my career, the final stages and, and I can accept that knowing that all I’ve accomplished in the game and my whole journey from start to finish is.
Like I said, if you get the book you’ll really understand or for the people listening, if they get the book, they’ll really understand why it’s bigger than basketball. So I feel like I’m reaching my final stages playing the game and I’m just going to really take everything that I’ve experienced and learn and try to try to give back to the youth and the up and coming basketball community.
[00:55:34] Mike Klinzing: Talk about what that looks like. What’s, what do you see as being next when your career does finally come to an end?
[00:55:40] Derrell Nelson: That’s a good question. Some form of coaching. I’ve already done a little bit of personal training with some kids. Some form of coaching, maybe player development coaching.
That’s something that’s really been sticking out to me. I’ve always been a student of the game. I read Phil Jackson’s book, Eleven Rings where he talks about coaching Michael Jordan and Kobe. And I’ve always been a student of the game. So I really want to incorporate that in.
Probably somehow player development but I haven’t really put too much thought into it, but I think that’s where the next steps would be.
[00:56:20] Mike Klinzing: You feel like you’ve made some good connections in the game for people that could help you in that pursuit when you get to that point?
[00:56:26] Derrell Nelson: Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely overseas and, and in the States, I feel like I’ve made some great networks and some great connections and I’ve already been getting some great feedback from the book that I just came out with in March.
[00:56:47] Mike Klinzing: Alright, so, before we wrap things up, I want you to answer this final two part question. Part one, when you think about the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge? And then, part two, when you think about just your experiences with the game of basketball, If you could boil it down to one thing, what brings you the most joy in the game of basketball?
So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.
[00:57:19] Derrell Nelson: Okay. And the first question was, what does this next year or two look like, you said?
[00:57:23] Mike Klinzing: Yep, biggest challenge. What do you see as the biggest challenge in the next year or two?
[00:57:27] Derrell Nelson: Biggest challenge. Okay, so I want to say if I don’t get the opportunity I’m looking for you know, The biggest challenge would be transitioning from a player to a coach or a trainer that would be the biggest challenge because ever since I was so young, I’ve just, all I know is playing a game and competing and that the aspiration to play at the high level that’s been in me since a kid, so I would have to say that’s, that would be the biggest challenge changing my mindset and understanding that I can give back to the game without being on the court. You know? I’ve accomplished a lot. I’ve seen a lot and taking that and just keeping that in mind.
I said the second part of the question, biggest joy, biggest joy, I want to just say biggest joy I have is being out there because I noticed it, I may be in my mid-twenties, but when I’m out there on the court, like I don’t, there’s no real thinking going on all this, and this is probably for a lot of basketball players they’re just, they feel free out there to whatever is going on in their life.
They’re not thinking about it they’re out there, they’re having fun, they’re playing free, they’re playing flashy. And that’s the biggest joy when I’m out there, I could be competing against whoever if I’m out there playing, having fun I’m at peace.
[00:59:06] Mike Klinzing: Really well said, Darrell. Really well said. I think that anybody who’s played the game can relate to that and kind of feel like the basketball court is your own world and you’re out there kind of letting everything else fall away. Just kind of envelop yourself in the game. I think anybody who’s played it can relate to what you just said.
Before we wrap up, I want to give you one more chance to tell people how they can find the book, Tour de Hoops. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Tell us where we can find it, where people can find you, where they can connect with you, social media, website. Where they can order the book. Give us all back that again, and then after you do that, I’ll jump back in and wrap things up.
[00:59:44] Derrell Nelson: tAbsolutely, absolutely. So the book is available on Amazon. com. So if you go, go on Amazon, or even if you got the app, you type in Tour de Hoops Bigger Than Basketball. Written by myself, Derrell Nelson. The book is available on Kindle. If you have a iPad or a tablet the book is also, also available on paperback and hardcover.
So get the book, Tour de Hoops: Bigger Than Basketball, Craziest Basketball Story You Will Ever Read. I promise you that. And just a little side note on the cover the demons in the back have the numbers 585. That’s actually my area code. So hat’s no coincidence.
[01:00:36] Mike Klinzing: Pretty cool.
Yeah, the cover’s cool. When I noticed the demons, I’m like, yeah, that is, that’s interesting. That is very interesting. And I think anybody who’s listened to this can go and look at the cover. I think you’ll get an idea of kind of what that cover means, there’s some snippets of it, so it’s really cool, and it’s interesting and cool to put that, what the artist showed you, in the cover.
Yeah, you snuck it in there, I like it. So, well, hey, Derrell, can’t thank you enough for taking the time. Out of your schedule tonight, jump out with us. Please, if you’re out there listening, go and pick up a copy of Derrell’s book, Tour de Hoops, Bigger Than Basketball. Make sure you get it. Amazon. com. I promise you won’t be disappointed to read and to everyone out there, thanks for listening. And we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.