TUCK TAYLOR – FOUNDER OF NEURO BEAST – EPISODE 1021

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Email – neurobeasthq@gmail.com

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Tuck Taylor is the Founder of Neuro Beast a science-based peak performance company that is designed to give athletes a competitive advantage by optimizing the way they perceive and process information. Taylor helps athletes reach optimal levels through enhancing mind, body, and spirit.

Tuck attended Palm Harbor University High School where he went on to earn both an athletic and academic scholarship to the University of West Florida. At UWF, Tuck majored in exercise science and graduated with honors. His love for basketball and his knowledge of exercise science fueled his passion and desire to enter the arena of health, wellness and sports performance training.

On this episode Tuck Taylor shares insights on achieving flow states for athletes, emphasizing the importance of mental preparation and self-awareness in sports performance. Flow state, often described as being ‘in the zone,’ is characterized by effortless action and heightened focus. Taylor details a structured approach to help athletes cultivate this state through a series of mental exercises. By revisiting moments of past flow experiences, athletes can identify key triggers that enhance their performance. The discussion also highlights the significance of managing expectations and cultivating a playful mindset, as fun is integral to accessing flow. Coaches are encouraged to create an environment that fosters creativity and reduces pressure, allowing athletes to thrive without the burden of perfectionism. Taylor’s method combines mental techniques with practical strategies, making it accessible for athletes at all levels.

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Take some notes as you listen to this episode with Tuck Taylor, Founder of Neuro Beast.

What We Discuss with Tuck Taylor

• Flow state is essential for athletes to perform at their optimal level, allowing them to be fully engaged in the moment and make instinctive decisions without overthinking
• Flow is a natural state of being for athletes
• Athletes should focus on process-based goals rather than outcomes to maintain presence during competition
• Expectations can hinder performance and flow
• Coaches can enhance their players’ flow state by creating a supportive environment that minimizes overthinking and self-doubt
• The analytical brain shuts down during flow, allowing for intuitive performance
• Developing a confidence checklist can help athletes regain their composure and focus when their confidence falters during games
• Incorporating mindfulness and spiritual practices can significantly improve an athlete’s ability to enter the flow state and perform optimally
• Flow can be cultivated outside of sports in daily life
• Confidence can be built through visualization techniques that prepare athletes for competition
• Coaches should be mindful of their reactions to player mistakes to maintain athlete confidence
• Finding joy and fun in the athletic journey enhances performance and mental well-being
• Self-awareness and the ability to accurately assess performance are crucial for athletes to understand what contributes to their success and areas needing improvement
• Integrating practices like juggling or other hand-eye coordination drills can help athletes improve their flow and cognitive function, making it easier to perform under pressure

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THANKS, TUCK TAYLOR

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TRANSCRIPT FOR TUCK TAYLOR – FOUNDER OF NEURO BEAST – EPISODE 1021

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host, Jason Sunkle tonight. But I am pleased to be joined for the second time by Tuck Taylor from Neuro Beast. Tuck, Welcome back to number two, buddy.

[00:00:19] Tuck Taylor: Glad to be back on the show, man.

[00:00:21] Looking forward to diving in with you tonight, getting a quick update on where you’ve been, what you’ve been doing, and then we’re gonna dive into a conversation about flow state.

Talk about it from the perspective of an athlete, how you can get there quicker. And from the perspective of coaches, how you can get your athletes to the flow state a little bit faster. But first talk, give us a quick update kind of on where you’ve been. I know you and I talked in our pre call a little bit about some of the different athletes that you’ve been working with and branched out into other sports.

So just kind of give us a quick update. Feel for, for where you’re at, what you’ve been doing lately.

[00:00:49] Tuck Taylor: Yeah. So when we talked before on the last episode, I think I was primarily working with basketball, maybe a couple of baseball since then I’ve been able to work with more NFL players. Also have some clients out in the Asian PGA, some able to work with some golfers.

And I’ve done extensive work with volleyball, both indoor and beach volleyball. So branched out a little bit. It’s been great because I’m kind of getting different perspectives on what athletes need when it comes to the mental game. And it’s actually made me a better practitioner. Cause now I’m able to kind of go into more of the nuanced levels and kind of see what is the same across the board.

Like all athletes need this and that’s why I wanted to get on to you and talked about flow states. Cause flow states is one of those things that I think we can all agree that. When you see an athlete in flow, when athletes are experiencing flow, they’re playing at a lot higher level.

[00:01:44] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. There’s no question about that. I think any of us who have played sports, and I don’t care what sport you’re talking about, but I can think back to times when I was a player or as a coach watching a player who you’re just like, man,  that dude got it into into the flow state right there and I can remember times myself when i’m playing of It just felt like no matter what I was doing, I could throw up anything and it was going to go in.

And then there were other days where you just knew, man, I don’t, I don’t have it today. So if you could get to, if you could get to that point where, man, I can, I can get to that flow state easier. I can make it work for me instead of against me. I mean, that’s an athlete. That’s a, that’s a, a key that any athlete’s going to want to unlock.

Let’s start with it from the athlete perspective and just talk to me a little bit about how you work with your clients, how you talk to them about achieving that flow state.

[00:02:39] Tuck Taylor: Yeah. So the first introduction to flow state is I have them talk about a time that they were in flow. So like describing a time that the play felt effortless and their performance was elevated and they were losing kind of a sense of self and became one with the sport.

And they were having fun, right, or they were having a lot of fun. So I have them go back into that and I was like, well, that’s flow.  you were in a flow state or a lot of people used to call it the zone. Flow state’s kind of like the catchphrase now for it. And so I have, I, I want them, I always have them go back to it so that they know one, that they can experience it, right.

We’ve all, we all can kind of get into that state. And then the next thing I teach them about is this kind of like, what are the requirements? What, how do you set the stage for flow?  and it comes from, there’s a multifaceted approach. But one of the main things is how we prepare their mind prior to the game.

And so one of the first steps we always say is like, you got to make flow a priority. Like we all agree that Flow is the ultimate stated way of being. Well, now we got to make flow a priority. How can we make our game feel more effortless? How can we make how can we reduce self doubt and overthinking and just really be in a state that we’re one with the game and one with our environment?

And so one of the first parts of that is really understanding, one, what are the potential things that could take me out of flow? Right? Because if, if flow shouldn’t be elusive, flow is actually our natural way of being, but it’s our attachment and our reactions to certain things in our environment that takes us and pulls us out of flow.

And so we we’ll go over, it might be they miss shots or they have a bad at bat or. They have a not ideal serve, right? These are things that can potentially take them out. And so then we go in there and we unpack those things on why those things are taking you out of flow. Because contrary to popular belief, and this is one thing I tell them too, is that you’re not performing perfectly in flow, you’re still making mistakes.

You’re just not triggered by your mistakes. So you’re able to move on to the next thing and the next thing and the next thing and the next thing, and you’re staying in this more. Process based thinking and moment to moment thinking, instead of your mind getting too far ahead of you and too far behind you in the past, you’re able to stay present in the now moment.

And so the first thing I haven’t identified is just different things that can possibly take them out of this divine state, right? And then we, we, we unpack those things and I help them depolarize some of the things. And so, for instance One of the things that one of my athletes brought up to me one time was that when he walks into the gym and maybe sees an athletic player, someone that looks just physically more gifted, it’s hard for him to get into a flow state in those games.

Alright, so it’s a polarized, that he’s polarizing the way that the athlete looks, which is now sending signals to their brain that there’s a threat. And you can’t be in flow when there’s a threat in your environment, right? Now your fight or flight nervous system is activated. So depolarizing that is like, okay, I understand that that guy can do what he can do, but what can I, what do I bring to the table?

He has to guard me. He has to deal with me. And so now it’s not so black and white that this guy is this, this, this amazing player, it’s also that I can do some things now, right? So it kind of disarms. the, the athlete, as far as like making them be so revved up about who they’re playing and to the, where they can go into it at a more base level state of consciousness, where they’re not, their nervous system isn’t too revved up.

Does that make sense to you?

[00:06:39] Mike Klinzing: It absolutely does. Yeah. I mean, I think when you’re start talking about, okay, I might have this ideal vision of what it’s going to be, and then something is interrupting that ideal vision. I have to be able to. Ignore that, put it away in order for me to get towards the flow state.

If that is that accurate, how I’m describing it. Absolutely. So

[00:06:59] Tuck Taylor: that’s like what I call like depolarization. And the other part is dropping. And what are we dropping? We’re dropping expectations. So that’s another flow buster is when you have these toxic expectations. So like anything that leads with, I have to, or I should be, or I must.

When you start to put those strict demands on the way that you’re performing and nine times out of ten you’re not going to live up fully to that, you’re going to start judging yourself too much while you’re performing. So let’s say I say like, Oh, I want to score 30 tonight, or I should, I should at least get 20 on this team.

And it’s the fourth quarter and you got eight. Well, now you’re like, Oh, like I’m underperforming. I should have been doing that and that. And now you’re no longer present. You’re no longer present in the moment. And that will take you out of that flow state. And so the times you’ve played the best are been the times where you’re just like.

Let me see how good I can do. Let me go out and just have fun. Let me see, right? It’s more from a state of curiosity. So, because now you’re curious, you can go out more confident, more trusting, which is now going to prime your nervous system to be more loose, to be more present. Also, when it goes down to even like Blood flow, like your blood flowing better when you’re, there’s no threats in your environment.

You see better, right? Now you can make better decisions, and now you’re going to perform optimally, right? You’re going to feel those feel good neurotransmitters, and you’re going to get into that flow state. But when athletes go into these games with these The strict demands on their performance is when they aren’t fully optimized to get into flow because there’s going to be something that’s going to happen that’s not optimal and they’re going to overly address that.

They’re going to spend too much time thinking about that one thing instead of getting on to the next thing.

[00:08:54] Mike Klinzing: What vocabulary words, when you ask the athletes to describe what the flow state feels for them, feels like for them, I’m just curious, what What words, what vocabulary do people use to describe their flow state when they’re talking about that with you?

[00:09:11] Tuck Taylor: So there’s a sense of ease. So like things are, things are a lot easy, effortless. Fun. Fun is a big one. Like one of my sayings is fun is flow and flow is fun, . And we could end this podcast and, and, and one sentence is, if you want to get into a flow state, set the intention to have fun, boom like, that’s it.

And we can kind of go over some of the nuances of that, but like those are, those are the main ways that they describe it. They also, they also talk about like, and this is this concept of like action and awareness become one. And what that is, is it’s like, as you set the intention to do something, it happens.

It’s like the game is playing out in theater in your mind and like in your reality, actually, like you, as you want to do something, you do it. There’s no resisting thoughts that you can’t do anything. Right. Very non resistant, very intuitive. Right. I remember a time where I was experimenting with this process that I have for my athletes now to get it in the flow.

And anyways, I was in a game. It was like a Saturday league I was playing in. And I was like, I was in full blown flow mode to where I got this offensive rebound and I turned around, like, bring it back out, but I saw it got cut. I just threw it over the back of my head. And it hit him like right on the money But it was like there was no hesitation.

There was no worry of like whether if it goes out of bounds There was no resistance, right? I was completely clear. I was completely okay either way. It was just as if my Body had its own intelligence.

[00:10:58] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, I love that. I love that phrase Your body is almost its own intelligence. I think about, and again, I’m, I’m going to more relate this as an old man, thinking back to my thinking back to my playing days.

But I know when I had that feeling that, yeah, it feels like you no longer have to think about the processes of what you need to do in order to do whatever it is that you’re doing out on the basketball court. So, When I was in that flow state and shooting the ball well, I wasn’t focused at all on my mechanics, my balance, my, I’m catching the ball here.

I got to do this or I got to do that. It was just, it was automatic. And then I’ll give you another example, which I’ve shared a couple of times now on the podcast, but it’s relevant here in the sense of when you were talking about the distractions that take away from the flow state. So when I was a high school player, Tuck, I shot.

I think 89. 5 percent from the free throw line as a high school player. And then when I was a sophomore, when I got became a starter at, at Kent state, when I was playing in college and I was about halfway through the season, I was shooting, I think like 93 percent from the line. And I never once ever prior to that time, I never thought about free throws at all.

Like I was just like, part of my identity was, Mike is a great free throw shooter. If you put Mike on the free throw line, Mike is not going to miss a free throw. And then at some point, midway through my sophomore year, there was a time where we did a drill where you had to swish like five in a row in order to avoid like getting up the next morning at 6 30 to come in and shoot free throws.

And here I am shooting like 93%. And for whatever reason, my free throws just completely abandoned me. So I went to the whole, the full on. Chuck Knobloch can’t throw to first base. Ben Simmons can’t get to the free throw line. Yeah, completely. My shot just completely, it just completely abandoned me. I think the rest of the season, and then I kind of like Ben Simmons, I was afraid to get fouled, and changed sort of the way I played and whatever.

And so my shot just completely collapsed for the remainder of my sophomore year. And when I think about the contrast between how I felt at that time when I stepped up to the free throw line, and how Every time I was there, I was just, I was thinking about every single thing I was doing and how do I do this and where’s my hand and am I, versus when I was playing well in the flow of a game, I never thought about anything about technique.

I was just, I was just playing. It totally got completely inside my own head. It’s funny now because I talk, I’ve talked to a couple of different people, sports psychologists on the podcast, and I’m like, what would you, what would you have told me to do back then? Cause back then I solved it by myself.

Believe it or not, my coaches never even talked to me about it. Like, here’s a kid who was shooting like 93 percent from the line and suddenly can’t make one. Nobody ever talked to me about it. So I just kind of had to figure it out and solve it for myself. And luckily I never got back to the point where I was.

Before that happened. Like I never became 93 percent I’m never going to miss, but I got it up. I shot like 82 percent as a senior, which honestly might be my best athletic accomplishment of my entire life that I was able to kind of overcome that and do it by myself, but to talk about this flow state stuff, it’s so amazing to me that to me, that experience with free throws was so anti flow state, because to go back to what you talked about off the top, it became such a distraction for me.

It was just like. I, when I thought before the game, I’m like, I don’t, I don’t want to go, I don’t want to go there. Let’s

[00:14:41] Tuck Taylor: unpack it like, yeah, let’s do it. And this is interesting is one of the false premises about like sports performance is that when you perform well, you gain confidence by performing well, you actually can start to lose confidence because now you have expectations.

Correct. Now you’re like, I am a great free throw shooter. So now I have to, I must, and I should be shooting better. And now you have all these expectations now and these strict demands, like telling yourself that you have to shoot 93 percent from the free throw lines, a strict demand, that’s a strict demand on your performance.

Right? For sure. Now, before when free throw shooting was just this thing you went up and did. Now you’re overly focused. You’re overthinking about it. Your myths sting more. They stay with you more. You think about them when you’re sleeping, and they start to ruminate over them, and it’s just not slow biz.

It’s because you’re, you’ve told yourself by saying it shouldn’t be or it has to that the, the result of that performance is attached to your physical well being. Is what you told your body. That’s exactly right. Right. And, and that, and it’s a very subconscious thing, but that’s what you told your body. So now this free throw is more than a free throw.

It’s like for death to the body. Mm-Hmm. and to the mind. And so now with that extra pressure, of course it’s harder to, it’s harder to be in that flow state. It’s harder to make ’em, make ’em the way you were before. You weren’t thinking, you were just stepping up and doing it and allowing it to happen. You there is no, there, there was no technique.

There was no opponent. There was, there was nothing but. The shooting and moving on, right? And so that’s what ends up happening is as that’s why the mental game is such a big thing, even at the high levels is because as these athletes start to accumulate success, here come these strict demands that they placed on their performance that they’ve never placed on themselves before.

 they, they’re, they’re sitting there chilling, just doing their thing, happy to be in the league. They start playing well, then they, they get signed for 60 million on their extension. Now it’s like, Oh, I got paid this real money. I have to go out and prove to everyone that I’m worth this. I have to prove to the club.

Now you’re in a different state of consciousness that even got you there. Cause you weren’t playing with those strict demands before. And now you’re placing them on yourself. Now you can become a completely different player.

[00:17:14] Mike Klinzing: And that’s, yeah, it’s so true. Yeah.

[00:17:16] Tuck Taylor: And that’s why just having, you can have an intention, right?

I intend to play well. I intend to be successful. To shoot well, but you can’t have expectations that are strict and that are toxic like that. Cause that, those are, those are a lot of perfectionists go through that that’s, that’s the perfectionism trap and it leads to also a over analysis of whatever, whatever that wrong thing was.

So for instance, like you could have had a good game, but you missed five free throws. You’re harping on those five missed free throws. Like everything else that you did that showed up in the stat book that didn’t show up in the stat book has completely been filtered out and you’re just zeroing in on that.

And that’s what makes these anthills into mountains and it keeps people out of flow.  when you, you, we are our own worst critic and that’s what keeps a lot of people from just living and being more free and playing more freely because they are judging themselves so harshly.

[00:18:21] Mike Klinzing: I feel like it becomes, and I know it did for me, that it becomes a part of, it’s not just how I’m playing, it’s part of my identity, like part of my identity was Mike’s a great free throw shooter.

Like that was honestly part of how, and that wasn’t necessarily expectations that were placed on me from somebody else. That was my own expectation. And I completely relate to you just saying. Oh, I missed five free throws and that totally ruined my performance, man. If I had a good game and down the stretch at the end of the game, even if the game was over and I got fouled and God forbid, I went one for two at the end of the game, whatever, like that one free throw, probably just not at me and not at me and not at me.

And that was even when I was still shooting the ball relatively well, and it’s, it’s amazing now for me to talk to guys like yourself and to some of the other performance. Coaches that I’ve talked about and everybody kind of has the same, basically what you’re talking about, right? That you can’t, you can’t let it become all consuming.

You have to, you have to just be able to put it aside and accept what the performance is for, for what it is. And I just go back to knowing how isolated I felt back in those days when I was just, it was just me inside of my trying to figure out. I didn’t talk to anybody. Nobody talked to me. And me trying to just figure out how do I make this work?

How can I get past this? How can I overcome it? And it feels like if I’d had somebody, if the sports psychology business had been around back in 1990, I would have been in, I would have been in a lot better shape because somebody would have got to me right away as soon as it started happening and said, Hey, here’s some things that you can try.

Let’s, let’s do this and see if we can, we can knock this out before it becomes this entire. Psychological warfare that you’re having inside your heads. It’s kind of crazy. Absolutely. Just, and I was by myself.

[00:20:20] Tuck Taylor: It’s when, it’s when we lose the curiosity aspect about like, let’s just go see what I can do today is what ends up just triggering our nervous system into like fight or flight mode and your body in fight or fight mode is just optimized to survive.

in that standpoint. It’s not optimized to do nuanced tasks like shooting and dribbling and passing and seeing cutters. Like your, your body’s essentially going into this, like, safety mode. Just like when your phone get ready to die, you can press that safety mode. The screen is going to be a little bit more dim.

Your internet’s not going to work as fast. It’s the same thing when we say consciously or subconsciously, I have to, I must, I should be, what if, oh boy. Here we go again. Those things like that, it sets you up to go into one of the, one of the books we refer to is from the, the Confident Mind. And in there, he talks about like the sewer cycle that you can go into thinking.

It’s when you consciously or unconsciously think these things, think these thoughts that lead to these emotions that then lead to these physiological changes that leads to these results. And so one of the big parts of being mindful as an athlete is understanding in that space between challenge and response, what am I saying to myself both consciously and subconsciously?

And if you can lead with curiosity, if you can lead with a little bit of optimism. Now your emotions are going to be better. Now you’re going to be more eager and excited to perform. Like I, like you said, when it became an issue with DeFrito, you weren’t necessarily eager or excited to get to that line anymore, right?

When before you were, you were like, all right, let’s see if I can knock both of these down. It was just like, keeping your mind open and curious to see what’s going to happen is what allows a flow state to happen. And for you to get into these, into these moments because you’re not, you’re not polluting the brain and overwhelming the brain with extra thinking.

And so going, going back to flow state, what actually happens is that your brain is actually shutting down during flow state. The analytical part of the brain that is judging, and that’s very old, maybe overly cognitive is actually shutting down. And you’re becoming very, very, very subconscious in what you’re doing.

Even to where you’re losing sense of self, like you’re not worried about how your jersey looks or who’s in the audience. Like you almost lose orientation of who you are in space and time. And that’s because the mechanism that’s responsible for that is actually turning off. And like I told you in the pre show, this is where this starts to get, flow starts to get, in my opinion, very, very spiritual.

And so. What’s happened this year, even with a lot of my athletes, we’ve gone this route, is that when you, when you attack flow from a spiritual standpoint, it automatically purifies the mind, which optimizes the body. But when you just attack flow and mental performance as a whole, from a mental standpoint, you may or may not be able to apply those things in time.

Right? Or, and, or you don’t have a inherent foundation to be able to deal with them and understand them and like, understand these things at their core. So one, one there’s a scripture in the Bible, it’s John 3 30. It says, I must decrease so he can increase. And when I read that, I started thinking about sports psychology and flow.

I was like, wow, like sports psychology says that the brain is shutting down as you’re getting into flow. Which in my opinion, Flow is now the presence of God in your game too. We’ll talk about that too. But I think Flow and God are one in the same because he, he created us. And as we start to put more trust in our ability and trust in him, it starts to show up more in our game.

But we have to decrease, we have to let go of overthinking. We have to let go of these toxic expectations. We actually have to do less so that we can get into these flow states and play better.

[00:24:44] Mike Klinzing: My question for you then becomes if I’m an athlete and I want to increase my ability to reach the flow state faster, more often, and I’m getting ready to play a game or head into a practice, what should I be doing? Where should my mind be at? What is my process for going through the preparation required to get me where I’m ready to achieve that flow state when I get out into whatever the court, the field, wherever it is that I’m going to perform.

[00:25:21] Tuck Taylor: Very good. So here, here’s a process that’s been relatively unique to our practice and it involves walking. And so a couple of things happen when you walk is you, it’s bilateral in nature, right? So as your left foot goes up, your right hand goes up. And so what ends up happening is you create this hemi thing.

With your brain, where now you’re thinking both logically and creatively. And that’s important to know. And so the first thing that I had the athlete do is like, again, identify anything that might pull you out of flow going into this game. Like, if I missed a shot, if I get pulled out, if I get this, whatever, right?

And I had them envision that. And I also had them while they’re envisioning that, I was like, well, how can you not be triggered by that? How can you allow this to happen and still stay in flow? What story, what narrative can you tell yourself that’ll allow you to stay in flow and not overthink these things?

So like, let’s say. If I miss my first two shots, I realize that gets me out of flow. Or a question I can ask myself is, are there good players that missed their first two shots? Heck yeah. Are there great players that missed their first two shots? Heck yeah. So why should I worry about it? Right? And as you’re walking, because you’re in this state of where you have that hemi thing, you’re actually able to come up with even more creative ways to reconcile that thought.

It’s because your brain is actually working at a higher level of problem solving when you’re walking. Another thing that occurs is called transient hypofrontality. It also happens with low levels, low to moderate levels of physical exercise, is that the analytical part of your brain starts to shut down.

So now you’re able to view, you’re able to, the part of your brain that like judges. So now you’re able to like, see that, see yourself missing those two shots, but there’s no shame or condemnation attached to it, right? So now you’re not, you’re not, you’re not criticizing yourself overly for doing it, and now you’re able to allows you and opens the door for these creative solutions on how to deal with these things.

And then I have them go through. So if it’s three or four things, you do that with all, all the things that happens, and then the next step is to envision yourself plants, a little bit of visualization work. Now envision yourself playing the game from a moment to moment basis. So you’re not trying to accomplish anything, like you’re in the game.

What are you focused on now? What are you focused on second? So I call them process based goals. So you’re kind of going through your process based goals. If I’m a point guard and another team scores, maybe I’m C cutting around, getting the ball, getting into our transition. I’m seeing myself do that from a step to step basis, right?

Breaking the game down to it’s like most fundamental. And then the last part of it is just a confidence checklist. Do I know what I want to do? Can I see myself doing it? Do I know what happens when I lose my confidence? Do I know what to do to get it back? Do I know what I look like when I’m confident?

So it’s a series of like visualizations that the athlete goes through. And as they come out of it, now they are optimized to go in, focus on the process, get deeply ingrained into it, focus on the process, and have that not be interrupted by any of these triggers. And now they’re in a flow state, right?

[00:28:51] Mike Klinzing: How do you, as an athlete, and how do you think about somebody who in the course of a game, a practice, that maybe it’s not going as well as somebody had hoped.

And so I’m trying to then make adjustments or make corrections as I’m going through. So maybe I play the first half of a game, or maybe I play the first quarter and my shot feels off and I’m not shooting the ball the way I want to. And yet we’re talking a little bit about right, turning off that conscious mind of being aware of all those things.

How do you kind of balance out the, I want to get to this flow state where it becomes automatic, but I also may want to make the Subtle corrections in, whether it’s my technique, my approach, all those things that requires more of a cerebral mind, if that question makes any sense. How do you balance those two?

It does, it does.

[00:29:50] Tuck Taylor: So, making your cues while you’re playing, making those cues, those corrections more external than internal. The more that you’re focused on the internal, you become more self conscious in the body, which is anti flow. Right. Right. That’s how you can get in someone’s head when you’re playing.

It’s like, Hey, like, I like how you held your follow through, but I’m going to overdo the follow through next time. For sure. And so it, it becomes as a simple cues. Put the ball in the basket, like simple, like it’s most, it’s the, at its most simple fundamental level because you don’t want to activate too much critical thinking and flow.

You don’t want to be like, Oh, I got to keep my elbow and I have to follow through and I have to do this and I have to get my eyes up. That’s it. Period. Period. Flow does all that at once, right? And really it’s just having confidence in that and being uninhibited and taking your shots, right? And, and being okay with missing too, because like, the other thing with flow is like, well, can I be in flow in a game where I didn’t shoot that well?

Yeah. Because there’s so many other nuances to the game, so many other boxes that you can be checking, that those, those missed shots actually become minimum. Like, you’re on defense and you stopped your man, he had to pass out, right? You don’t get a stat for that, but that was a good defensive stop for you.

That’s, that’s flow. And if you can stay present with those different processes, you could still be in a flow state, in an optimal state of play, and still be a very effective player without having to play perfectly. Maybe you didn’t shoot well, but you got to the free throw line. Maybe you didn’t shoot well, but you had a lot of assists that game you’ve, you’ve found you’ve continued to, that’s the thing about being in flow, you’re, you’re in this state of like automatically problem solving to where it’s like, yeah, maybe I’m not going to shoot as much, maybe I’m going to play make, I’m going to find other ways to do it.

That’s what happens in flow is that like. Yeah, you might recognize you’re not shooting well, but your mind is so open to other ways to affect

[00:32:00] Mike Klinzing: when the game or the practice or the performance finishes and an athlete is looking back on, Hey, what went well in terms of me getting into flow? Maybe where did I struggle?

What are those conversations that you have with athletes? What do those look like at the conclusion of a performance? that, what do you talk to the athletes about? How do you sort of analyze and look back at

[00:32:29] Tuck Taylor: how it went? So that’s, that’s, that’s a great question. So one thing that I teach them to do is have a really good athletic filter, which means when even talking about the way that they played, it should, it’d be the ESPN highlight version of it first, and then a very almost business like response to the things that they did wrong.

I just call it optimization data. So it could be so I had a player that we worked with that plays for the Pacers and he, he had a, he had a good game, but from, like, maybe a social media standpoint, it looks like Brunson got the best of him, and he had 43 on his head, and there was nothing he can do, and it was like, this is how I know this guy is, like, why he’s elite is because When he talked about the game, there was no mention of the, I would say maybe he spent five minutes on talking about the game.

I’d say four minutes of it was all the things that he did well from a nuanced version, like I, I stayed in flow. I got to my spots. I found my teammates here. Even till like I had a good warmup, I had a good pregame, like all the boxes that were checked that were right. And then it’s like, oh I could have gave him some different looks.

I could have done this, I could have done that, and that was it. And so what that, what that shows me and what that, what that’s cultivating in the athlete is as they view themselves as in the athlete role, it’s going to be more positive than it is negative, right? We’re not, we’re not giving the missed free throws a bunch of weight, but we are going to give some of the intangible things some weight and some attention that usually don’t get.

Like, I had a stop on this play and I had, I did this on this play that might not have showed up in the stat book. So it’s really in terms of basketball, it’s redefining what success is in basketball. And it’s not only going to be the things that show up in the stat book, like really getting down to the nuance of like, what, what a real successful game looks like and having them be able to articulate that when they talk about the game.

Now, if they’re harping on some mistake that they had, it’s like there’s that filter still isn’t there. The filter is almost made to, the filter is almost set to magnify their mistakes and filter out the good things that they did. So that’s one thing that we look at is like, how do they describe the game?

That’s the

[00:35:04] Mike Klinzing: ability to, one, recognize and acknowledge the nuances of the game that they maybe a player at a lower level might not be able to, first of all, see and recognize the value of those things. So I think the higher level that you go, players have a greater ability to be able to, to sense those nuances.

And then I think the second part of, of that is the ability to self diagnose. Yeah. Hey, what did I do well? What did I not do well? And then to make those necessary adjustments. And again, I think when you talk about players at the highest level, part of what makes them elite and special is that they understand their own performance so well that they know oftentimes what caused them to perform well or perform poorly in a given moment.

And so to be able to at the end of the performance or at the end of the game, to be able to go back and look at, Hey, here’s all the little small things that. Joe Smith sitting in the third row may not know that I contributed, but I know that those are things that my teammates, my coaches want me to be doing.

And then conversely, if there’s things that I didn’t do well, I know how to diagnose those and say, yeah, I was supposed to get here. Or maybe I was a step slow defensively in my rotations or. Yeah, I just didn’t get to my spots quick enough to be able to get the shots that we were supposed to. Those kinds of things are, again, a lesser athlete, someone who’s less accomplished isn’t going to recognize those things.

So for a player. At that level. I think those are the two things to me that set apart pros and guys, guys who are elite is their ability to self diagnose and their ability to be able to recognize the, the more nuanced contributions that they’re making. If that makes any

[00:37:00] Tuck Taylor: sense. It’s all summed up into self awareness is how aware they are themselves.

And I, I even see it cause like my youngest client right now is 10. Then I have guys in their thirties, right? So I see it, right? Well, we’ll do a drill. We’ll do like a cognitive conditioning drill. I’ll ask the athlete. How did you do? And then I had always had them rank themselves one through a hundred and the younger kids They always go towards the negative on how they did it.

And so we can have like 25 reps. They messed up on three They’ll be like, ah, I did about 50 percent I was like you only met mid three out of 25 like,  what that   what that comes out, right?  So it, but it doing it in time like that, that’s why what I do is very valuable to the athletes because it also gives them the space to learn how to accurately self assess and that’s so important because again, if your filter is in the negative, you’re going to always think that you’re performing bad.

You’re going to always think that you’re not good enough. You’re never going to feel that fulfillment you get from playing.

[00:38:13] Mike Klinzing: So true. So true. All right. Is there anything else from an athlete perspective in terms of flow that you want to share before we move to what a coach might be able to do to help their team and their players who maybe aren’t as familiar with doing it themselves?

What can a coach do to kind of get their athletes more prepared to be in a flow state?

[00:38:33] Tuck Taylor: Yeah. So I would say another thing, and this is from working with pros, I see this a lot, is Flow states shouldn’t just be something that you’re practicing for your sport. Flow should be a priority for your life. So it’s like trying to find flow in conversations.

I’m sure you get into conversational flows all the time, . Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So there’s different levels of flow and allowing yourself to experience it in different things and different aspects outside of your sport. will allow you to get into it in your sport a lot more easier.  you’re, you’re practicing getting into a flow, doing your homework or you’re practicing conversational flow, or you’re working out and you’re getting into a flow and recognizing it and feeling it.

And what happens is then you begin to grow this flow sensitivity. So now you’re more aware when you’re in it and you’re more sensitive to when maybe you’re starting to slip out of it. And you have the tools and strategies to get back in it, right? Which is usually the, the usual tool and strategy is just to get back to the present moment, get back present.

Like what, what’s, what’s in front of me, what do I need to do right now? And as you. Do what’s present over and over and over again. That’s how you start to shift into that state of consciousness of flow So that’s that’s big is is just practicing these things outside of it. And like I said before also exploring your spirituality there’s so much there’s so much in spirituality that coincides with flow with letting go and submitting and not overthinking that is, that is related to spirituality.

And it’s, there’s even research on it. There’s called the spirituality wellbeing scale. And it showed that athletes that were, that reported they were, they were good with their spirit and they understood their spirituality also performed better. Right. Cause now they’re more equipped to deal with challenges.

They know how to deal with adversity. Now there’s, there’s spiritual aspects to handling all those things. And. The whole path for me has been interesting because I got into the peak performance field first through the body, right? I was a strength and conditioning coach for 10 years. Then I started the mental route.

I noticed that like the mental was starting to make the physical better. But now as I’m getting into the spiritual, the spiritual is making the mental better, which is making the physical better. So if you, if you can, can have a concept of spirituality and how that relates to you and your life and start to understand it will allow you to get into these states of flow a lot easier.

You understand how to surrender to the moment, you understand how to be obedient to your intuition, you understand and by doing it and living that way, you’re able to do it more seamlessly when it comes to your sport.

[00:41:34] Mike Klinzing: You’re able to let go, right? I mean, you’re letting go of that control, you’re ceding that control and I think that’s really what you’re talking about here when you’re talking about bringing the spirituality piece of it into it.

Oh,

[00:41:47] Tuck Taylor: one more thing I’ll say too is integrating something into your pregame that allows you to do that, that is allowing you to feel your body move automatically, right, without thinking. And I don’t know if you follow my page at all, but one of the things that definitely I’m seeing more and more in elite athletes is that they’re juggling before they’re performing.

And there’s, there’s a lot of research on juggling and what it does to the brain. One of the main things that it does, it, it increases the white matter in your brain, which is. Basically, the conduction, it increases the speed of the transfer of the signals in your brain. So things are transferring and flowing a lot faster, which now you’re more automatic.

You’re responding more fluidly to things because the information is going faster in your brain. And Steph Curry does it. There’s a crazy video of Webaniya juggling before one of the Olympic Games. Sidney McLaughlin, the hurdler that has all the world records. She does it. Jose Alvarez is a big juggler, pre game.

Like the best of the best are starting to integrate more of these physical, mental, spiritual aspects prior to the game so that they can get into that flow state.

[00:43:05] Mike Klinzing: I’m a two ball, one hand juggler. That’s I never, I’ve never, I’ve never been able to get to the three balls, two hands. So you’re right. Look at you, man.

That’s, that’s what I, that’s what I, I, what’s, what’s funny is, so I’ll tell you a good story. So I learned that in, I don’t know what year I was in high school. Probably, I’m guessing maybe my junior year of high school in a psychology class. And it’s one of the things that I just remember about that teacher.

And I remember I learned the skill and it’s a skill that I still have, still have today. And I actually have a girl now that. It’s coming to some of the stuff that I do basketball wise. And her mom called me, we were having a conversation. She had some questions about some stuff. And in the course of us talking, she’s like, Hey I just wanted to let  that my dad was Mr.

Perschnicki who was the guy who taught the psychology class where I learned how to juggle. And so she’s, so she’s like, yeah, my dad always says, ah, Mike he’s, he’s a good he’s a good kid. And she’s laughing because I’m like, yeah, I’m 54. She’s like, of course any teacher always refers to, it doesn’t matter how old the people get, there’s still, there’s still, there’s still a kid.

And that’s what I remember about him. Is I couldn’t tell you anything about psychology. I couldn’t tell you one thing that I learned in that class, but I remember that juggling was a part of it. It was a skill that I learned, and it’s a skill that I still have today. I probably should have stuck with it and been able to do the, the three balls.

I might have to put that, I might have to put that on my list to figure out how to do that. I teach all my athletes how to juggle.

[00:44:37] Tuck Taylor: I teach all my athletes how to juggle. And it’s it’s definitely, it’s definitely, I’ve seen even hockey goalies do it before, before their games. There’s, there’s definitely more to it than the research is showing on sports enhancement, but  it’s definitely increasing that white matter.

It’s definitely allowing, because when you’re juggled too, you’re not looking at the, you’re not looking at your hand, catch the ball.

[00:45:00] Mike Klinzing: Right. You’re not thinking about it. Right. You’re not thinking

[00:45:02] Tuck Taylor: about each

[00:45:02] Mike Klinzing: catch and

[00:45:03] Tuck Taylor: each throw. Absolutely not. So you’re kind of getting to that, that level of trust that your body can do what it needs to do when it needs to do it.

For sure you Right. Letting go of like overthinking and it’s, and it’s fun. Yeah. And it also produces a lot of the feel good chemicals that are responsible for flow. Like in flow. There’s five different neurochemicals pro that are in the brain. One Len anandamide, and there’s dopamine, Oxycontin, serotonin and endorphins.

And so why flow feels so good is because all of those neurochemicals are simmering in the brain. And so,  how juggling feels. If you start juggling, it starts to feel good. So you’re completing the task, you’re moving. So the endorphins are there. And so basically you’re just priming the brain to be in these peak levels of flow by doing different hand eye coordination drills and different things like that for your performance.

That’s why, like Steph Curry is someone I study extensively, but his whole pregame routine is flow based. It’s all flow based it’s all about mind, body, brain. soul integration. And that’s why he’s, that’s why he did that. Like there was no better display of him in flow than when in the Olympics and, and the why he was in the peak flow is basically off of that last shot where he, he had two people on them and he was kind of fading.

LeBron’s open, KD’s open, Book is open in the corner and Steph’s a cerebral player. Like, it’s not like he’s going to make bad plays on purpose, but when you’re in flow. You have to be obedient. Like sometimes what you’re going to do is going to be kind of irrational, but you are such, and you so into that state that you’re just obedient to it.

And that’s where those moments like that happen. Those, how those moments like that are originate from is from that, that high level of trust and intuition that you have when you’re in flow and when you’re just able to let go.

[00:46:59] Mike Klinzing: Yup. No doubt. You can see it. You can see it when a player gets to that level, right?

Yup. Yup. It just feel everything you could just see. It looks, I go back to the word you used earlier. It’s, it looks, it looks easy. It looks easy when a, when a player is playing at peak performance level. All right. Give me it from the coach’s perspective. If I’m coaching a high school basketball team, what can I do to, to help my team get to that flow state?

[00:47:21] Tuck Taylor: Yeah. So one, one, one thing that comes to mind is when you are breaking down plays and different things like that, making sure that you are chunking it up to a moment to moment basis so that the athlete Understands the process that they need to be following, right? Like, I do this, then I do that. If this happens, I do that.

So they can stay in the moment of the process. So they can continue to be deeply engaged in what’s going on, right? When they don’t know what’s going on, they don’t have a task to focus on. That’s what allows crowd noise and all these other things to, like, get into the brain. So we call it keep the cup full.

So you keep the cup full with your process based goals. Also your productive thoughts, like I can do this or get here, get there, run there and sprint back hard, like a moment to moment basis. And then by doing that, and by checking on those boxes, you start to feel good. You start to get into a rhythm. You start to understand the flow of the game.

And then you start playing, you start entering into that flow state. Where you’re not overthinking, and you,  exactly what to do, and your, your decisiveness is heightened, ? That’s one thing that I saw in Steph in that moment in the Olympics was just how decisive he was. Like, this is, it’s going up.

It’s going up. Like, there was no, like, thinking about if this is the right play or not, is this what I, should I do? So, another thing coaches can do is just be more mindful of how they respond to players mistakes. If the response is too knee jerk and you’re too animated and you’re yelling and screaming too much, it could cause, like, a low level of trauma to the athlete to where now they are second guessing everything that they do.

So every shot that they take, every pass that they make, they’re, they’re thinking in their head, what if this gets stolen? What if I miss this? Is coach gonna take me out? Is coach gonna yell at me? And Prevents them now that now they’re in that sewer cycle that we talked about before now they’re saying what if and they’re starting to worry and they’re not as confident and now their body becomes more tight and They’re in that fight or flight mode that does not allow them to execute nuanced skills and tasks very well So just being mindful of that and those would be my two things, is making sure that everything is broken down into a process.

So there’s a process for the athlete to be following. Make sure the athlete knows the process, and then just be mindful of how you’re responding to that. And you could take it a step further as just kind of knowing your athlete’s triggers too. So if they, if they are a player that gets down when they miss shots giving them some positive reinforcement.

Hey, keep shooting. Good. Like good players miss shots. Like, different phrases like that that help them keep their performance in perspective.

[00:50:23] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, knowing your players definitely helps. And the body language piece of how you react as a coach to player mistakes is a huge one. I know that my son played for a coach that felt like almost every time that something went wrong and the coach Would throw his hands up in the air or stop his speed or put his head down or have some Negative reaction.

I’m talking on like every play like seriously like every play I’ve seen it and it just  it just it just that just wears on players and to that coach’s credit He improved dramatically from one season to the other. I don’t know if he watched himself Somebody talked to him what it may have been but there was a dramatic dramatic improvement You in that area.

And I’ll just my own, my own personal story. It’s funny. So I’ve had my own kids say to me, dad, every time something goes wrong on the court, you always go like this, put your hand on put your hands on your head and you’re just like, and it’s one of those things that you don’t think about it, but it does.

Like, when, when somebody starts to equate coach is unhappy coach. Didn’t like that play. And coach doesn’t even have to say anything, like coach’s hands go up on top of his head. And all of a sudden I’ve conveyed a message, message, and it’s knocked, knocked the player out of their optimum state to perform at their best.

Cause now they’re worried about, Hey, what’s my coach thinking about over on the sideline? So that’s one of those things that as coaches, we have to be very cognizant of what it is that we do on the sideline. It does have an impact on our players. Positively and negatively, especially when you’re talking about how you react to mistakes.

I think that’s a really good piece of advice. Absolutely.

[00:52:10] Tuck Taylor: Absolutely. And  it’s, it’s if coaches coaches can get into a coaching flow as well and one, another piece of information would be like, if you’re having these visceral responses to everything that goes on, you’re probably taking yourself out of your coaching flow.

For sure. Decision making is probably not going to be as good. What do you call after a timeout and like the different decisions that you make on the fly might not be as flow based because You’re having these visceral responses to everything that goes on during the game instead of saying like I know that there’s going to be turnovers I know that’s going to be missed shots I know players are gonna make mistakes like and Having a game plan for how you’re going to like you said physically respond to these things So that you continue to think as clear as possible.

That’s what ends up happening. A lot of these you get too hot headed. I had, I had a, when I coached high school, I had, I remember I had an incident where I was just livid about something and I called a timeout and I was just talking about what happened so much that I didn’t even drop a player and tell them what they needed to do.

[00:53:15] Mike Klinzing: Yep.

[00:53:15] Tuck Taylor: I spent the whole time out just like raging, . So, like, it definitely can get you off of your game as a coach and out of your flow state as a coach if you’re not present to that fact as well.  regulating your emotions and staying in that state is going to allow it to give you that divine intelligence on what, what decisions to make that impact the game as well.

[00:53:39] Mike Klinzing: Self awareness. I mean, it’s the same thing we talked about with players, right? If I’m a coach and when I become aware of the fact that every time something goes wrong, I’m putting my hands on my head and taking a deep sigh, I got to change that behavior. I got to correct that. So that doesn’t happen. So it’s not negatively impacting my athletes.

I think that’s a really good piece of advice for coaches. All right, before we finish up Tuck, is there anything else that we didn’t hit on or you want to kind of give one final summary statement, and then we’ll let you share how people can get in touch with you?

[00:54:10] Tuck Taylor: Yeah, I would just say to sum it up is just don’t forget to have fun, like, it’s such a, it’s such a cliche term, but when you’re having fun, again, you’re from a neurochemical standpoint, you’re producing the chemicals of flow things are more effortless you’re more delightful, you’re more fulfilled.

without having to accomplish a task, right? And that’s like the deepest state of flow is when just being out there, you’re in a flow state. And they call it the, they call it the auto telling. It’s like someone that is receiving intrinsic reward for just participating in a task or skill, not saying if they’re doing good or doing bad, just the, just the act of participating, they are receiving that fulfillment.

And that’s, that’s, that’s the most thought after level to be at. And when you can find, and then one other thing I’ll say too, along with that is that we talked a lot about flow being in the game and I did talk about flow being a lifestyle, but even looking at the athletic journey, the athletic journey needs to be flow based.

And when you can find fun in the weight room, when you can find fun in the classroom, when you can find fun traveling with your teammates and all these things, that’s when it becomes flow based. I work with a lot of collegiate athletes. When they got that schedule, when they got to school, they were like, coach, how am I going to do this every single day where I have 5 a.

m. weights, 8 a. m. practice 9, 9 a. m. classes, 2 p. m. second practice. 7 p. m. study hall. How am I going to do that every single day? And then travel and do all these other things. I was like, you got to take it one moment at a time and find the fun in everything. If you can’t find the fun, you be the fun. You bring the fun to all of that.

And when you think about your college career, when I think about my college career, I think about the good times, how like the road trips and the different things that we did, maybe going out as a team. Like it’s not just about what happened on the court. And the way we were able to survive those times was having fun with our teammates so making flow a priority, not only for your performance, but also your whole athletic journey is going to be important.

[00:56:37] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s great life advice. I think anybody who’s listening to that, if you can, if you can find the fun in anything that you do, find the fun in your job, find the fun in your daily interactions with your family, all that stuff. I mean, it’s just If you can live in the present and find the fun in what you’re doing in the moment, your life is going to be infinitely better.

And that says nothing about what it can do for your athletic performance. Like we’ve been talking about here tonight. So talk before we get out, share how people can reach out to you, find out more about what you’re doing. And then after you do that, I’ll jump back in and wrap things up.

[00:57:10] Tuck Taylor: All right, so I’m primarily an Instagram guy, so you can find me @neurobeast. I post a lot of like cognitive training content, a lot of mental skills. Starting to post more things about spirituality on there. You can DM me. One of the services I am providing is a flow based athletic journey coaching program. So, teaching athletes how to not only Getting to flow in the games, but to get into a flow during their whole entire athletic journey.

So helping them, walking them through a lot of things we talked about today, like helping them commit to a vision, helping them be more self aware, helping them learn how to drop and depolarize and detach from. disempowering beliefs and how to engineer new beliefs. It’s a framework that I work from the Peak Performance Code that I created that allows athletes to cut through all that resistance and so that their journey is more flow based.

[00:58:07] Mike Klinzing: Tuck, it’s great stuff, man. I’m so glad that we were able to do this for a second time and talk flow state. I think anybody who listened, coach, athlete, human being, You’re going to get something out of what Tuck and I talked about tonight in our conversation. So really appreciate you taking the time out of your schedule to join us and to everyone out there.

Thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.