GEORGE MICHALOWSKI – PRESIDENT AND CO-FOUNDER OF THE PORTAL REPORT – EPISODE 1246
Website – https://theportalreport.com/
Email – george@theportalreport.com
Twitter/X – @MichalowskiCBB @ThePortalReport
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George Michalowski is the President and Co-Founder of The Portal Report which was started 2022 with the goal of creating a media outlet completely focused on the transfer portal recruiting scene. Michalowski has worked directly with more than 150 college basketball staffs in their transfer portal recruiting process. The Portal Report strives to present the most complete and comprehensive coverage of the college basketball transfer portal recruiting world.
On this episode Mike & George discuss the evolving landscape of college basketball recruiting, particularly in the context of the transfer portal. Michalowski shares how the recruitment process has undergone a paradigm shift, with coaches increasingly relying on agents to facilitate connections with potential players, thereby diminishing traditional methods of direct communication with recruits and their families. This shift, as Michalowski asserts, is not merely anecdotal; it reflects a larger trend where coaches are now more frequently engaging with agents rather than directly with players, signaling a significant transformation in how recruitment is approached in the current era.
Additionally, Michalowski shares his personal journey and experiences that led to the inception of the Portal Report. His early forays into basketball journalism and the establishment of a platform that addressed the needs of both players and coaches underscore the necessity for comprehensive coverage and insight in the transfer portal arena. The episode emphasizes the importance of understanding the motivations of players entering the portal and the role that agents play in shaping their decisions, thereby positioning the Portal Report as an invaluable resource for coaches navigating this complex new landscape. As college basketball continues to evolve, the insights offered by Michalowski serve as a critical lens through which the dynamics of recruitment can be understood and navigated.
In a broader context, the episode tackles the implications of NIL deals and their interplay with the transfer portal, raising pertinent questions about the sustainability of this new model in college athletics. Michalowski speaks candidly about the frustrations experienced by coaches as they attempt to adapt to a rapidly changing environment, particularly concerning monetary demands that often exceed the actual market value of players. This ongoing evolution presents both challenges and opportunities, and Michalowski’s commentary offers a nuanced perspective on the future of college basketball recruiting, emphasizing the need for adaptability and strategic foresight in an increasingly competitive arena.
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Have pen and paper ready as you listen to this episode with George Michalowski, President and Co-Founder of The Portal Report.
What We Discuss with George Michalowski
- The increasing involvement of agents in college basketball recruiting signifies a substantial shift in traditional methods of player recruitment
- Coaches are now prioritizing communication with agents over direct contact with players
- How The Portal Report serves as a vital resource for coaches and players, providing comprehensive insights into the transfer portal dynamics
- The impact of social media in shaping player recruitment and visibility to potential schools
- Understanding the evolving nature of NIL deals and their implications for players and coaches is crucial for navigating the current college basketball landscape
- Providing comprehensive data and insights to aid coaches in making informed decisions regarding player recruitment
- Deciphering the complexities of NIL contracts
- Understanding the financial dynamics and market value of players is crucial for coaches
- Building relationships with players and coaches is vital for the success of scouting services like the Portal Report
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THANKS, GEORGE MICHALOWSKI
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TRANSCRIPT FOR GEORGE MICHALOWSKI – PRESIDENT AND CO-FOUNDER OF THE PORTAL REPORT – EPISODE 1246
Narrator
00:00:00.240 – 00:00:17.520
The Hoop Heads Podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball.
George Michalowski
00:00:20.800 – 00:00:49.610
We’ve noticed that the agents are becoming more and more a part of this process. The coaches have lost their traditional ways of recruiting and calling the kid and calling his parents. They’ve abandoned that.
Not entirely because you still have to recruit the kid obviously, but at least for the first step, man, it’s going through the agent and that is happening right now as we speak. There are coaches calling agents more than there are coaches calling players. I’m confident in that statement.
Mike Klinzing
00:00:51.050 – 00:02:18.050
George Michalowski is the president and co founder of the Portal Report, which was started in 2022 with the goal of creating a media outlet completely focused on the transfer portal recruiting scene. Michalowski has worked directly with more than 150 college basketball staffs in their transfer portal recruiting process.
The Portal Report strives to present the most complete and comprehensive coverage of the college basketball transfer portal recruiting world Are you or an athlete Planning to go D3? Check out the D3 recruiting playbook from D3 Direct.
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The modules cover things like writing emails to coaches, building an effective highlight tape, using social media well planning camps and visits, and navigating application strategy. You’ll get templates, checklists and an outreach plan to communicate confidently. Learn how to compare financial packages and avoid common missteps.
By the end, you’ll have a prioritized school list and a decision framework you can use to land your best fit opportunity. Click on the link in the Show Notes to get your D3 recruiting playbook from D3 direct.
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00:02:18.050 – 00:03:39.260
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Have pen and paper Ready as you listen to this episode with George Michalowski, president and co founder of the Portal Report. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Cleansing here tonight without my co host, Jason Sunkel.
But I am pleased to be joined by George Michalowski, founder of the Portal Report. Very timely, George. Welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast, Mike.
George Michalowski
00:03:39.260 – 00:03:40.660
Thanks for having me, man. I’m excited.
Mike Klinzing
00:03:40.900 – 00:04:04.180
We are thrilled to have you on. Looking forward to diving into what you’ve done with the Portal Report, how you kind of got started in this business. So let’s start there.
Take me back in time to give me an idea of kind of your background, where you came from, from a sporting perspective, and then the steps that sort of led you to getting the Portal Reports. Portal Report started. Easy for me to say.
George Michalowski
00:04:05.280 – 00:08:23.620
Sure thing. So I’m from Chicago, grew up in the Chicago area. Loved basketball, loved all sports, obviously.
But as you can see, the club’s in the back behind me here. But love basketball, specifically high school basketball. That city, Chicago, man. I mean, you can go on for hours.
We could have a whole podcast dedicated to the history of Chicago high school hoops. So I grew up loving high school basketball, go to games with my dad, even went to a couple with my mom, too in the city of Chicago.
I grew up in the suburbs but would drive into the city, catch some Simeon Morgan Park, Whitney Young games, and watch the Chicago Catholic League and the escc. I mean, there’s a lot of great hoops out there. So grew up going to games. Just love basketball.
When I got to high school, I actually started my own website and a Twitter account that kind of went along with it that was called HS Midwest. Didn’t have too many followers. The name actually changed a bunch of different times. That Twitter account is now my personal Twitter account.
So if anyone is going to look for that, it’s no longer in existence. But started that Twitter account and that website to write articles and cover Chicago high school basketball.
And I was the same age as the kids playing.
I didn’t attach my name to any of this because I thought it was nerdy and I didn’t want my buddies to see that I was tweeting about their games, right? So started that, ended up going to college at the University of Pittsburgh at Pitt.
And when I got to Pitt, immediately, it was like, all right, it makes sense to cover college basketball, to get into the college basketball scene somehow, one way or the other. I never really wanted to be a journalist, and that’s kind of What I did to get into the industry, but it’s never really the goal.
I just wanted to watch basketball. I wanted to be around the game, be in the gym. So got to pit.
Reached out to all the local websites around town that covered sports just to again, get in the gym. Reached out to a guy named Alan Saunders who started Pittsburgh Sports now alongside Mike and Joe Steigerwald.
Uh, some, some familiar names if any of the listeners are out in Pittsburgh in the media scene. But anyway, I ended up writing for them for, for about five years throughout college and then after college a bit.
And as I was writing articles, as I was in these gyms, going to college games at Pitt, at Duquesne, at Robert Morris, I saw the mid major level of basketball in the Horizon League. I saw the A10, which is a major plus league, and I saw the ACC. So I really fell in love with college basketball.
And I was in college too, so these were my peers. Right. So a long winded way of, of saying I got into this industry, industry, into the basketball scene through journalism.
And from there, man, it was, it was pretty wild.
We basically realized, hey, look, every article, every tweet that we put out regarding transfers is going nuts, is catching fire, is kind of reaching a virality level that a local media site and a local media guy like me at the time would never be able to reach. I mean, I was having tweets where I’d put out interest lists for kids and what schools they’ve heard from four or five years ago.
And these tweets were going bonkers. I mean, people were interacting dming me and that led to a lot of coaches reaching out.
Uh, so once I kind of started to see coaches follow, I, I knew that there was going to be some way for me to help them out in this process. I had helped the kids forever.
That’s kind of what my initial goal was, is get these Chicago kids on the national map with those articles, with those tweets. But now I realize I could help coaches too.
Uh, so decided with a couple other guys here in Pittsburgh to found the Portal report back in 2022 as an outlet to not only cover the transfer portal and a national scope, but also to serve as a tool for fans, for coaches, for players, and now even for agents. So that’s kind of how we got started. I know that was a long winded answer for you.
Mike Klinzing
00:08:23.700 – 00:09:04.050
No, that was perfect because it helps to bring me up to speed and have an understanding of where you came from, which gives you an idea of where you’re at now. So let’s go back to sort of the genesis of the writing. As you start out writing, are you writing more stories?
Just, hey, this is what happened in the game. And then slowly you kind of build relationships with the players that you’re covering.
And then that’s what allows you then to go to Player X and say, hey, you’re going to transfer. What are some schools that you’re interested in? What are some schools that are interested in you?
Or how do you go from kind of that rapport role to getting that, quote, inside information that then allowed your tweets and the things that you were doing to go viral?
George Michalowski
00:09:04.930 – 00:11:40.730
That’s a really interesting question. I mean, I. I would be honest and say that I’ve kind of been doing that for my whole career getting that information.
I was never into the writing long feature stories type of journalism.
I was always in it to get information from the players to boost their recruitments out, if I could, to let fans in the city of Chicago know who was recruiting the best kids in the area.
Because we all end up watching the Jabari Parkers and the Derrick Roses and the Jalil Okafor is on TV when they’re in college and in the pros. But there weren’t that many people interested in the. In the recruitment side of it.
So I was asking for that information from high school prospects when I was writing for my own website, HS Midwest, Then when I realized, okay, hey, the portal report, we’re going all in on it. We’re going to start this site and see what happens.
I kind of told our social media guy, Jacob Harris, who has been with us basically since the start, he’s unbelievable. And he kind of loves this, too. He loves getting information. He loves boosting recruitments and seeing those lists grow.
I kind of told him, we had a conversation, I remember, and we said, look, we could put these lists out of schools that have all reached out to. To a player and get them directly from the player.
Just like I had been doing since I was in high school and since the players I was covering were in high school. And I think a lot of people are going to be interested. And, man, I mean, you’ll see. we had a million views on our Twitter page today.
He just sent me that about an hour ago. And during this time of year, those interest lists go nuts. We get them straight from the player.
We do get some from agents, but don’t do as much of that anymore. But, yeah, players will Let us know who’s reached out to them. We will post the list.
We actually, we joke about how there’s so many different trends that you see in the media being online so frequently as it seems like everyone in the basketball world is online a lot, and especially on Twitter, but we joke about the. The vertical list.
So if you go on Twitter and you see so and so transfer from whatever school has heard from the following schools, and there’s a vertical list of about 20, you got to click see more sometimes to see the full list. We like to joke that we, we started that trend of, of the vertical one just to keep people scrolling. But yeah, man, that’s.
That’s how I got into the information side of it. It honestly happened pretty organically. once we started the portal.
Mike Klinzing
00:11:40.730 – 00:12:04.340
Report, when you initially had the idea of the portal report, what was. What did the business plan look like compared to what it is now?
In other words, was the vision for what you thought you were going to start the same as what it is now, or was the initial vision maybe a little bit different and kind of morph just based on what happened in circumstance?
George Michalowski
00:12:05.060 – 00:14:24.030
Yeah, yeah, it’s another great question. So in the beginning, our business plan was revolving around media, was revolving around journalism and reporting, and we still do some of that.
Like I just talked about on our Twitter page with the interest list, the recruiting information that we gather and that we still put out to the public for free.
However, we had plans to write articles, we had plans to write feature stories, and monetize that by getting clicks, essentially getting advertisers on the site, making money through Google Ads. That was kind of the initial plan.
I did say earlier, though, we did realize there was a way we were going to help a lot of other people, like coaches and the players themselves. So we had our, our eyes fixed on the media route to monetize this thing.
However, I will give credit to my dad, actually, because right in the beginning, he’s a. He’s very savvy businessman himself. He was like, all right, you need to sit down.
And I remember we got a huge whiteboard or poster board or something at Office Depot or something like that.
And he’s like, you need to sit down and realize who your potential customers could be, what your potential products could be in the future, because this thing could be huge.
And everyone knew who followed sports at all, that this transfer portal term just kept coming up and more powerful people kept saying the words transfer portal together every Day, they still are. It’s still spreading to wild levels of popularity.
So he realized pretty quickly that I needed to get those thoughts down, which I appreciate him, obviously, for that and many more things along the way.
But, yeah, it was, it was, it was pretty clear that we knew we could help coaches, we knew we could help players, and we knew we could kind of fill this void that fans of college basketball had, that pro sports fans have every single off season. Right. They love free agency. It is now free agency in college sports. And all these other media companies, as well as, as our brand, have noticed that.
Mike Klinzing
00:14:24.910 – 00:15:04.660
All right, let’s go through each of those pillars, those communities that you look to help. Right? So you have coaches, you have players, and you have fans. Let’s start with where you originally started with the players.
Talk to me about the process of how you guys gather the information from a player. Are you reaching out to players? Are players reaching out to you?
What’s the process that you guys go through if player X is going to leave Kentucky, how do you get that information from Player X? Get the schools that are interested in him? Get the schools that he’s interested in. How do you put all that together?
What’s the process for helping a player?
George Michalowski
00:15:05.620 – 00:19:32.839
So it’s very different now than it was when we started. When we started. When I started, uh, I would follow as many people as I could on my Twitter page, on the Portal Report Twitter page.
I, I like to think of it.
I, I don’t remember who told me, but someone in the media industry, I was asking them for advice when I was a freshman at Pitt, and they were like, you, they were like, no one understands how powerful open dms are online. And I kind of took that and ran with it. I still DM everyone who follows me. Essentially.
I checked my DM from you, Mike, and it’s really such a powerful tool and I’m so grateful for the platforms that exist, social media wise. So I would follow everyone that I could. We would follow everyone that we could that we wanted to get in touch with on the Portal Report account.
Basically shoot them a DM that says, look, I’ve got on my personal page at the time, I’ve got, let’s say 300 coaches following my page from all levels. Can I report on your recruiting information? Put it out there, write an article about you. That’s kind of how it started.
That evolved into more and more players telling their friends about it, more and more players coming straight to us, which, that is where a lot of it comes from now, we will look down a lot of the time. We’ll hear a kid enters a transfer portal. We will look down at their Twitter account, and they already follow us.
We don’t even follow them, which obviously is. Is amazing. I mean, they know of our brand already. They understand that we can help them out in some way and.
Or they just like our content and like following where their buddies are going, which is obviously fine too. But it’s changed, man. It. It’s. It’s really a blessing that we’re able to attract this many eyeballs to our brand through Twitter with these.
With this algorithm that the app has. I mean, we can post a recruiting list, and it gets seen. By last week, we had one that was around 150,000 views.
And that kind of virality just leads to more players following us, more players reaching out to us. Now about, hey, these schools reached out to me. Can I get a post? Can I get a post? So that’s kind of how we started getting their information out.
But we also do help players on the back end every single day with our service for coaches. So all of the outreach that we do to players doesn’t show up in all of our tweets.
A lot of the conversations that our team, our scouts and myself have with these players, whether it’s through DMs or through a phone call, through a zoom call, even goes into our scouting service for coaches. So we ask every player that transfers now a series of about 10 to 15 questions, and it’s essentially an interview.
It’s stemming from what I learned when I was a journalist, even though I didn’t want to be doing that, I learned how to interview people and learn that information is the most important thing. So we interview these players, everyone who enters the portal, and we still do this today. That’s what I was doing for a lot of today.
That’s what our team was doing all day, man. And that information comes into us. We find out why the player left, what they’re looking for in their next school.
did their mom move to the Northwest and they want to move closer to home? Did they have a kid and they’re. They want to live close to their kid? Do they need money straight up, and they don’t care if they play?
There’s all sorts of stories behind these transfer portal players. And in our initial business plan, I thought we were going to write those stories in the form of an article.
Now we write those stories in the form of a profile, in the form of a Conversation with coaches that I’m having every day.
So now that leads me right into how we help coaches is that I’m having these conversations with coaches who say, hey, George, what’s going on with this kid who’s helping him? Why is he leaving? What’s he looking for?
I can answer all of those questions because either myself or Riley Frayne, Matt Kramer, Jacob Harris, the guys on our team, have already talked to the kid.
So it’s it really this player conversational relationship that we have going on on a large scale thousands of players in a few weeks span every year. Now with this portal and how big it’s gotten, it really fuels the coach service as well.
Mike Klinzing
00:19:33.320 – 00:19:39.720
Were you having conversations with the players in addition to them filling out the survey?
George Michalowski
00:19:40.680 – 00:22:23.500
Yeah, yeah. So we will interview the kids and honestly, a lot of the time it is through direct messages.
But Riley Frayne in particular, he’s helps us with women’s basketball. He’s done all sorts of stuff with us from the start. So we have an outreach team that’ll send the survey out to kids.
They can show you the DM that we send them. It’s, hey, we work with over 200 schools in the past few years, help them recruit transfers. Would you mind filling this out?
We think we can help you out. It’s completely free. That’s what they will send out. The outreach team. Riley goes in, calls up these kids, as many kids as he possibly can.
I spend a lot of time dming kids, as does Jacob Harris and Matt Kramer. He does more on the women’s side. Matt. So we handle the men’s side for the most part.
And in those conversations, we’ll really get into it and ask these players, look, okay, we want to help you. And two, we can help you. And it doesn’t take much. It does not take much, man.
Like, we have coaches at all levels, which is why I love what I do and I think the guys on our team love what they do. We have NAI coaches, we have JUCO, D3, D2, low major D1, and high major D1. Like, we have coaches at all levels.
So those conversations, man, have become so important because some of the coaches that I’m closest with personally are at those lower levels. So even if a kid tells us, hey, like, I entered the portal, I wasn’t going to play at all next year, I have no stats, I have nothing to post.
he says that in our survey, we can call him up and say, okay, I’ve got a great coach that I know who can develop you, who can give you an opportunity to go to school for free at another level. And you may not have considered that before, but we can still help these kids out. So it’s, it’s been really rewarding, man.
And that’s kind of what the foundation of our, of our company is built on is what do these players need? How can we help them get to where they should be? a lot of kids overshoot in the recruiting process. A lot of coaches do the same thing.
they recruit a kid and the kid never plays. And it is what it is. the, they’re going to end up where they should be in the end.
As we found out with this transfer movement, coaches realistically are going to encourage kids to leave their school.
But we exist as well as a lot of our competitors who also do great work helping out kids to help them land where they should be and to help these lower level coaches also get in touch with them.
Mike Klinzing
00:22:24.380 – 00:22:29.500
What’s the most interesting question on your survey that gives you the most interesting answer from players?
George Michalowski
00:22:30.950 – 00:23:56.720
Yeah, so we actually have a few very open ended ones on the survey. I actually. So we also have a player service where if players want to pay us $100, we can all post them on each of our individual Twitter pages.
So we’ll post kids on our main page if they reach out, if they have recruiting information and whatnot. But if they want to post on all four of our pages for us to really spend more time on it, we’ll post them on our individual pages.
And the ones that I post are the ones, the answers to the question what are you looking for in your next school? And I have seen some outrageous answers.
I mean, again, like, I don’t know if these kids know how much a simple strong answer could, could help them out because you just never know who’s going to see a tweet of I’m not even tooting my own horn, my Twitter page or anything. Like, you just never know where these tweets are going to end up.
What coach is going to open his phone at a beautiful D3 school and say, oh my gosh, I love that kid on my team. So some kids definitely give funny answers.
The most interesting question I’d probably say is that one, just because it’s so open ended, what are you looking for in your next stop? But we also ask kids what is your preferred nil range for this next year? And that one’s interesting for other reasons. Realistic.
Mike Klinzing
00:23:56.720 – 00:24:02.480
How realistic are some of those answers? Are there some people that are completely, just wildly out of the ballpark?
George Michalowski
00:24:03.280 – 00:26:00.750
There are, there are, there are some. I will say they’re more realistic than you’d think.
there are a lot of players who we work with, and these players will tell us their number and then I’ll kind of go to coaches and be like, hey, is this anywhere near what this kid could, could get on the market? And they tend to seem like, hey, this is pretty accurate.
And that’s led to us getting a pretty strong sense of, of what these kids could make.
But I mean, I don’t, I don’t want to open that can of worms yet, but I don’t think anyone can pin down the nil market, the value for these players yet. Every staff has a different budget right now, and every staff has different needs and demands. Right?
And it all, it’s all supply and demand.
I mean, we could see a kid enter the portal on day one from a D2 school and be the best available D2 kid, and then the D1 portal opens two weeks later and all of a sudden he’s worth 200 less. So can an algorithm, can it, can an analytic predict what that kid’s worth in this year’s market? I don’t personally think so.
That is why we provide strictly player fed information on what are they asking for. So, yeah, it’s a, it’s an interesting topic, man. It’s a, it’s a wild place. I know it’s, it’s cliche to call it the wild, wild west, but it is.
I mean, right now coaches are running around with their heads cut off and players are also drinking out of a fire hose.
They don’t know what’s going on when they get 50 calls in the portal and they do, or they don’t have an agent and they’re getting money thrown at them from $1,000 to $80,000. They don’t know the difference. they’ve never made that kind of money before a lot of the time. So it’s wild, man.
Those, those two questions, though, they definitely produce the best answers, I would say.
Mike Klinzing
00:26:01.060 – 00:28:00.850
Yeah. To be able to understand your value right. As a kid and again, your opportunity. I’ll give you an example we have.
There’s a kid that played on my son’s AAU team, and my son’s a sophomore right now at Ohio Wesleyan. And this kid was at a school and the school ended up closing, and he.
This was like in, I think, February maybe, and he had some opportunities, maybe that look at some Division 1 schools, and kind of waited, kind of waited, kind of waited.
And then to your point, all of a sudden, he had this window of time where he was the only guy in town because there wasn’t everybody else’s season was still going on. And then when as seasons ended and portal opens up and now all of a sudden there’s a lot more competition.
And so just trying to figure out and navigate that piece of it as a player.
So we’re trying to see if he maybe missed out on an opportunity that maybe to play at a little bit higher level, if he would have jumped on an offer early when he was kind of the only game in town. So there’s all these things that nobody knows. We’re all trying to figure out what the best way is to go about it.
How do you help players, in your case, again, how do you help the coaches? There’s so many different ways to. To look at it. It’s a system that nobody has any real experience in.
Everybody’s just kind of floundering and trying to figure it out.
And so what you guys are doing with the players, as you said, to be able to get that information and be able to share it with coaches, and you talked about your relationships that you built with the coaches. Who’s a coach that was on board with you early? I don’t know if you want to share a name. You don’t want to share a name. But.
But clearly one of the things that you have to do in your position is to be able to build trust with coaching staffs. Right? If they can trust your information that it’s accurate, that gives you a big leg up in terms of being valuable.
So when you started to try to build that trust with coaches, where did that start? Who did it start with? If you feel comfortable sharing a name or two.
George Michalowski
00:28:01.570 – 00:32:57.520
Sure thing. Yeah. I’ll say one. There are many. I don’t want to obviously, leave anyone out. I’ve. I’ve built great relationships with a lot of people.
But I’ll say one that came to mind right away when he asked the question, uh, Flynn Clayman, he’s the. The High Point head coach, obviously, as everyone has noticed in.
In the recent months of their run in the Big Dance, Flynn opened his doors at High Point to me a few years ago, right when we got started, uh, I was in town for, I believe, a pit Duke game, and I was covering it for My journalism job in college, making a couple hundred bucks a month. I just drove down because I wanted to go to Cameron indoors and I reached out to Flynn.
Cause we had just gotten started and we were getting ready for, I think, our first or maybe second Portal season doing this. But we were not, not very big at the time. Our product was a spreadsheet. It was not much at the time. And Flynn said, sure, come by.
I, I basically was like, hey, I’d love to meet you. I, I didn’t know many coaches in the beginning personally.
And yeah, I don’t know if he remembers that day, but he took me around the campus, he took me in their offices, he introduced me to everyone, Coach Huss and the whole staff.
And I got to sit in on a film session, I got to watch practice courtside and that beautiful arena that they have and got to eat lunch with him and their five star cafeteria down there at High Point. So that was very cool. Um, that was a great experience. I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention the local staffs here in Pittsburgh.
Um, I live about five minutes away from Duquesne. I live about 10 minutes away from Pitt, and 25, 30 minutes from Robert Morris.
The men’s and women’s staffs at all of those schools, all three of those programs have been unbelievable to me. Whether it was while I was in the media or doing the Portal report.
Jeff Capel has, has been the big name in Pittsburgh in town for a while now. Obviously, if you’re the head coach at Pitt, you are in the basketball world around here.
they’ve had their struggles for sure over the past few years. They’ve been to one tournament in his tenure. I understand that. But man, he has been unbelievable to me.
Again he knows so many people in the industry, so I don’t think he’d bring my name up in terms of his closest relationships.
But I once, I went in to record a podcast with him one time when I, when I was in the media world doing my journalism job and we recorded a 45 minute show and he invited me into his office. It was the middle of the summer. It was just him and I one on one interview. I was like, this is going to be awesome. And he was just the nicest guy.
We were watching the Olympics. The Olympics were on. We were watching Olympics in his office. It was a great time.
I went to check the camera and it was actually my phone because I didn’t have a Camera or any equipment or anyone with me. It was just me. And I had gotten a phone call during the interview about 10 minutes in. So I’ve never told this story.
I don’t think that on a show or in, to anyone in Pittsburgh or anything, but the whole interview was, was gone. I didn’t record. And it was a great interview, man. I promise it was the best interview I ever did. It was, it was. He got emotional.
We were talking about his story, his father at some points too, who was a huge influence in his life, and a lot of other coaches, obviously.
But he said, he’s like, oh, man and this is a guy, by the way, that, that he’s a high profile guy in the, in the coaching world. Like, he’s got people coming in and out of his office every single day in the off season.
And whether it’s guys like me, whether it’s other scouting services, whether it’s his friends in the coaching world, high school coaches in the area, and he said, look, I’m all yours right now, man. You’re with me here. You took the time to do this. Like, let’s run this back. Let’s. Let’s rerecord.
So, Mike, if, if we aren’t recording, I don’t know if I would, I don’t know if I would say that to you, man. It’s like, that took a lot and he’s a busy guy and he literally took the time to react, do the whole thing. It wasn’t the same questions or anything.
It wasn’t the same exact conversation, which was awesome. He was really genuine. He didn’t copy any of the answers he gave the first time around, man.
But had to tell that story just because I know they’ve had a tough go. not a lot of people have, have shed positive light on that staff recently. And yeah, it’s a, it’s just an example, man.
These guys are, these guys are all humans and, and I appreciate that part of what I do and, and getting the opportunity to, to meet and work with and hopefully help out a lot of these guys.
Mike Klinzing
00:32:57.600 – 00:35:59.000
It’s an awesome story and credit to Jeff Capel for being willing to take the time to do it over.
From your perspective, there is no worse feeling than having come in and taking someone’s valuable time and then having to go back to them and say, we didn’t get that recorded. Can we do it over? I’ve had that happen to me once and it happened on the Same night. I did two recordings in the same night.
And I had one person that I recorded with and their episode was gone. Like, I got finished. Everything looked normal, like it was just like you and I were doing it.
And I got done with it at the end of the night and I had recorded two different podcasts. I got done with it at the end of the night and I went to whatever, get to the files, and there was nothing.
And in every other case that I’ve ever had something go wrong, there’s always been something that I could salvage, whether it was some terrible over the Internet version of the audio or I was recording video and I got there was something. These two gone. There was nothing. And so you talk about a terrible feeling, and exactly what that feeling was.
Like you have to go to somebody who just asked them for an hour and 20 minutes of their time and say, hey, you just gave me an hour and 20 minutes. Everything we did is gone. Now we have a choice.
You can either record again and give me another hour and 20 minutes, or we just pretend like it never happened. And I had two completely different responses. One person never responded to that email saying that the thing was gone and I don’t blame them.
The other. And then the other person immediately said, let’s do it again. And so just interesting again, people’s perspectives.
But, yeah, a terrible feeling when you get somebody to invest their time with you and then you can’t do it. So kudos to Jeff Capel for coming back and doing it with you again. Let me ask you this.
So from a coach’s perspective, if I’m coming to the Portal report and I’m trying to get the information about a kid that I may be interested in, and I’m looking at some of the things that they want out of their next situation.
How much of what about the player, how important is it or will it be for you or someone at the Portal report to not only have an understanding of what that kid’s survey answers was, were, but.
But also to go from like a scouting perspective, is there any piece of what you guys do of maybe understanding, like, hey, this kid’s coming out of Division 2. It looks like he could be a Division 1 player, or maybe he overreached like you said at Division 2. Maybe he’s better off at a Division 3.
Talk to me about that part of the business.
George Michalowski
00:35:59.970 – 00:41:31.240
Sure. Yeah, there’s definitely a scouting aspect of it. I mean, we’re called a scouting service. We do have to know basketball.
We have to do Our research, we have to watch games, we have to be in the gym at games. So that side of our service is fueled by the scouts on our team.
Riley Frayne, I have to highlight, I think he has been to over 80 games the past two or three seasons in the college basketball world, which is an absolutely unbelievable mark to reach. He lives in New York. He goes to all he checks out every team in the northeast that he can. We as a, as a group watch a lot of games on tv.
We watch synergy clips.
We watch everything we possibly can during the season to get prepared to back up our analytics, to back up what the kids say, how much money they want, for instance, and what they say they’re looking for, right? So if I watch a kid one time in person, Riley watches him one time in person against a bit major team, let’s say Long island, he’s a big Sharks guy.
So if he goes to Long island, sees a kid play, I go to a pick game, I see the kid lose by 40. Those are two pretty good examples.
And we’re fortunate enough to, to be able to catch a lot of games and a lot of players in person for what we do, honestly. So I am very confident in our team’s ability to determine how talented players are, to evaluate talent.
At the same time, we don’t promise that we’re going to tell a coach something that he has not already studied and seen himself. I do not.
When I sell to coaches, and you can ask any coach who I have sold our product to or tried to sell it to, I don’t go in there and say, look, I want to. I went to 90 games this year.
I’m going to tell you exactly what you’re getting out of this player at the ACC level, even though he played in the America east, because frankly, not that many people know the answer to that. If anybody. You see coaches, even the best coaches miss on transfers every single year.
So it’s tough to, for me as someone running the company, to understand and to weigh the value behind. Okay, do I have to go to every Pitt, Duquesne and Robert Morris game that I can while I’m in Pittsburgh?
Do I have to travel throughout the season to get to every game? I think that’s definitely important, which is why I still try to get in those gyms as much as possible.
At the same time, we’re not promising that information. What we’re promising is saving you time in the identification process.
What I mean by that is we will give you a resource called our conference matrix during the season that your staff can use leading up until March. And that tool built by Matt Kramer, my business partner here, allows you to see, okay, what are the trends?
What’s the actual history in the last six years of players going from the America east to the ACC on average, what are their points per game do when they drop down from the Big 12 to the OVC? What players have done that? What are their exact stat changes?
So we try to compile the most information and be the information leaders to help our coaching clients. And we don’t try to write up five page long reports on each kid. It’s, it’s not who we are and it’s not where we fit in in the landscape.
Now when you ask that, obviously I want to provide more of that coach, any coach can call me up and ask me how this kid fits in their system. That’s not me and that’s not our team completely. Like I said, Riley is that guy.
Riley will I will see a kid’s name hit the portal and maybe the kid played seven minutes a game in the, the Metro in the Mac and Riley will be like, oh man, I’m really upset.
I like that kid’s fit there and we’ll talk about it, our meetings and I spent a lot of time with him recently at the Final four and the A10 tournament before that. But yeah, man, it’s, it’s, it’s an interesting dynamic that we have where we do all absolutely love basketball, so we watch a ton of it.
But I’m going to be honest, I mean a lot of the notes that I’ll take during a game, a lot of the takeaways I’ll have after a game, I’m not really conveying them to coaches. I’m more so relied on by coaches for quick hit information on a, on a large pool, a large volume scale. So yeah, it’s really interesting.
We’ve definitely in talks about our business development and where do we go from here. We’ve definitely explored like, hey, we would love to really provide in depth analysis on every player that we watch in person.
The short answer as to why we haven’t done that is coaches haven’t asked for that. there are scouting services in every corner of this country that do that, that write reports on kids. So we’re trying to be different.
Above all we’re trying to help as many people as we can and the way that we’re doing that right now is it looks a bit different ultimately.
Mike Klinzing
00:41:31.240 – 00:41:59.320
Right. The, quote, scouting process still comes down to that coaching staff evaluating that player and how that player would fit into their system.
Even the scouting services that go super in depth. Right. I think in most cases, that may help coaches to put together their list of players that they want to look at.
But ultimately, yeah, maybe I read this scouting report and I look at it and I’m like, okay, this.
George Michalowski
00:41:59.320 – 00:41:59.680
That.
Mike Klinzing
00:41:59.920 – 00:43:09.350
Do I agree with it when I.
But still, as a staff, I have to be in the gym watching that player or I have to be watching that player on film or at AAU or where again, I have to see their tape, whatever it is. I have to understand who that player is, not rely on a third party to be able to make decisions about who’s ultimately going to come on my roster.
So for you to be able to get that information to coaches, to be able to help them to create that list and have an understanding of. Again, as you said, I like the idea of knowing the trends. Right.
Of this guy went from this level to this level, or this guy went from this conference to this conference. What’s the history of guys who have done similar things and how does that translate to me? That makes a lot of sense.
So when you talk about, and you’ve mentioned it a couple times, when you say coaches are getting our product.
So if I’m a coach and I come to you and I say, george, I want to get the product that the portal report is going to provide to me as a coach, that’s going to help me to do my job better. What does the product.
How does the coach engage with you and your company to be able to get the information that you guys have accumulated and created within the confines of the portal report?
George Michalowski
00:43:10.070 – 00:47:34.110
Sure. So they get access to a database on our website.
They can log in directly@theportalreport.com with their staff account, and there they can see all of this information essentially in a database that they can sort through. They can sift through completely on their own. Now, there are plenty of different pages.
There are plenty of different features, Some of them among the ones that are the most popular, we have a heat map page that has been a hit since the very beginning when my business partner, Matt created it a few years ago. It’s literally a picture of the map of the United States.
You could click on any state and right away you see all the transfers that are available from that state originally. So you’re at NAI coach in Indiana.
You click that list and you scroll to the bottom and you see the kids from D1 and D2 and NAIA and JUCO and D3 who didn’t play much and are from Indiana. you call up all those kids. So that’s one of the pages on our site.
We also have an advanced analytics platform this year that Matt built out that’s incredible.
That allows you to go in and really slide all these different filters all at once where you can say, look, I want to see kids who are asking for between 100 and $200,000 this year in the portal who are guards or wings between 63 and 67 and shot at least 29% from 3 just to see who else is out there and what exactly we’re looking for. You can hammer down, you can drill down through to all of that information in seconds.
So this database, it kind of looks, we’ve based it on some video games. So like NBA 2K and the, the Maddens of the world and college football video game that EA Sports made.
We really looked at how EA Sports built their system when they revived that game about, I think two or three years ago. And because we’re, we’re all sports fans, like everyone that works at our company is a huge sports nerd.
So we were like, look, this is what fans know. This is what coaches grew up playing and seeing. And this is the scale that they like to rate players on.
he’s a 99 overall, right? you hear that all the time. So we looked at their platform.
We said, look, this is, this is really cool, this is really clean and the color schemes work. So if you log in and Mike, I’d love to show you our platform at some point.
If you log in with your staff, you can all log in at the same time on your computers and really dig through the portal. You can see contact information from the players.
You can see an agent contact list that I’ve put together over the last three years that now has over 400 agents in there. So we provide again all this information in different little pockets of our website once you sign in.
Now, a challenge for me over the past few years is how do I get coaches who are so quick and so what can I say, habitual in what they do to change and to look at all these new pages and to really understand what we can all do for them. So that’s something that I’m trying to figure out every Single day to be transparent is.
Is how do we get these coaches to realize that we have contact info for 400 agents that they may have not known that we did that. How do I. Because these coaches don’t check their email. They have a thousand calls a day. Right. Like, I know fully.
They’re the busiest guys ever. My cousin is actually a football coach, college football coach. So I know. I know the grind, man.
And I know what they’re going through, especially in portal season. But yeah, man, that’s. That’s what they see.
They see a really good, cool, interactive database with lots of different pages on there, starting with our. With our old heat map.
And from there you can see player profiles, where you can see game logs, career stats, all the information they put in our survey. Yeah. And then contacts and all sorts of statistics too. So it’s. It’s really cool, man.
I try to tell Matt, my business partner who built it, that he did a great job all the time because it is a. It’s an unbelievably fun platform to look at, for sure.
Mike Klinzing
00:47:34.430 – 00:47:39.550
I am not going to ask you about the technology piece of that and how that gets.
George Michalowski
00:47:39.550 – 00:47:40.510
I don’t know the answer.
Mike Klinzing
00:47:40.750 – 00:48:03.640
I’m sure you don’t.
But what I am curious about is how do you curate all of the statistics for players and the input, obviously the survey that you guys put out, you’re collecting that data. I get that piece of it. Just what’s the process for collecting Player X goes in the portal.
Where do you go to collect that player statistics and relevant things that you then put into the database.
George Michalowski
00:48:04.200 – 00:52:44.390
Yeah. So we actually already have a database going throughout the season of all players. We get those stats from a stat provider. I forget the name.
I would have to ask Matt what the name is of the provider. But we do get. We pay for stats to connect our database. So we have an API that connect. I think that’s the terminology again, outside my pay grade.
But we have an API that connects the stats to our database. So throughout the season, even before players are in the portal, our database on the back end is full of these kids.
We can see who performed the best on each night of the season internally.
So if our scouts are going to a game or they want to write an article or they want to interview a coach, we can say, hey, here’s our internal database. Here are the 10 best performers of this night. Your guy went seventh overall. Whatever. So that updates throughout the season every single night.
We also incorporated some Bart Torvik stats into our Platform this year after receiving his blessing, Matt was talking to him over the off season, and he let us use some of his stats as well to get his. His stats on our platform. Not like he needs it.
He’s a huge name in the sport, but very grateful for him and for those stats to be in there as well. And with all of those stats, again, we already have them updating every single day.
So by the time portal season comes around, we have a team that is legitimately scanning Twitter nonstop throughout this time of year.
They may not be on the clock right now because we’re recording a little bit later at night, but essentially, don’t tell any of our clients, essentially, they’re looking around the clock at who is going into the portal, and we don’t have access to the transfer portal. We’ve asked so many times. The NCAA has said no every single time. And it is what it is, right? It’s for coaches.
It’s a compliance thing, and we are not supposed to have access, so we don’t use it. We don’t get access. But yeah, we. We collect the information from Twitter.
Once we see that they’re transferring on Twitter from a valid source, of course, or if the player comes to us directly and we can confirm that they’ve told their coaches, we legitimately just click a button on our back end that says available. So then they populate on our coach service, and bam, coaches can.
Can see them in our service and can automatically see all their stats and everything. So that is all a tremendously stressful thing to even think about for me, how that all connects. I’ve heard the term SQL.
I’ve heard all sorts of stuff going around. My business partner, Matt handles all of it, so I’m eternally grateful for him. But it is.
It is really nice at the setup that we have to be able to say, okay, this kid hopped in the portal and one minute later, coaches are looking at his information and coaches are looking at his stats, and coaches can see, okay, these guys are on top of it. It’s been really rewarding for us, man. I mean, we try to ask some coaches every year for. For some testimonials to put in our marketing material.
And we’ve gotten a lot that have said, look, I don’t even check the actual portal anymore. I just check the portal report.
And I am confident and I trust that these guys will get their information in quickly and they’ll have the stats right there immediately.
It’s actually funny not to go on a side tangent, the first year that we ran this scouting service for coaches, myself, Ethan Bach was working with us at the time. He was also a former journalist. And then Nick Lawrence in who’s now at La Salle. We were all the data entry guys, we were all the sales guys.
We did everything, us three, and we ran a spreadsheet. And the, the. There are still so many coaches who talk to me about this exact story.
When I run into them, they would, we would literally see a kid go into the portal like we do now on Twitter, and we would manually type in his box score stat, his name, the date he entered it, entered in the portal, his team, and the top, I think 15 box score stats from we go to Sports Reference on one monitor and then just type in each box. And it would take forever.
So I think coaches respected that grind and they could see like, okay, these kids are actually busting their butt to get this information as fast as possible. But now it’s very nice. I’m very grateful that we can just connect everything so seamlessly.
Mike Klinzing
00:52:44.630 – 00:56:15.020
Yeah, it is amazing what technology can do.
And I can tell you that to, to go back in and to type all that stuff in manually and to be able to stay on top of that and try to do it efficiently is a huge challenge. I’ll give you a story from my own. So, yeah, I’ve been running basketball camps or whatever. This, this summer will be like 35 years.
And for a long time I just would collect paper registrations.
And so when I would collect paper registrations, then I’d go through and literally like I’d have the paper registration and I’d create my Excel spreadsheet, type in the kid’s name, type in the grade, type in the went to, type in how much they paid, type in their phone number, type in the email address, and you’d go through each one. And I just remember the amount of time that it took to do that. And then at some point, this is probably now it’s probably getting close to 15 years.
Maybe it’s, maybe it’s, it’s. It’s about that. I think I had somebody call me up from League Apps is the company that I use.
And I had somebody call me up and they’re like, hey, we can automate all your registration process and do this and we’ll create the back end of your website where we’ll collect all the payments and whatever. I’m like, oh, that sounds great. how much is it going to cost? And of course, then you’re weighing it. You’re looking at it.
I’m like, well, right now, it doesn’t cost me anything to type these. Type. Type these things in. And why do I want to give away that.
Like, why do I want to give away 1.5% of the money or whatever and and then you do it.
And all of a sudden all you do when you have registrations come in, you’re just like, oh, there’s another registration, and all this stuff is right there. And then you go to camp and you want to print the roster, and you just push a button and it’s all. It’s all done. And it really is incredible.
And obviously, just. I’m just like, you, like, I. I have some ability to do some things technically, but I cannot build anything technical. I’m not building a database.
I’m not building a heat map. I’m not building a registration system. I can edit and do things with stuff that’s already built.
But it’s just amazing what technology allows you to do. And I think about a business like yours that was it possible in the analog days to create a scouting service?
And I know I can think back to, again, I’m really old, graduated from high school in 1988, and I can remember seeing literal ditto papers of like, two, three, four things that would have scouting reports of like a paragraph typed on, like a typewriter and then made, like, Xerox copies that scouts used to put out about high school players. And you’d see that stuff would come out, and so it was possible.
And now you just think about what you guys are able to do and how quickly you’re able to do it and how much value you create off the back of the technology that. Look, you. You don’t even have to understand it.
Somebody in your company obviously does, but you don’t personally have to understand it to make it work and to be able to provide a tremendous amount of value. I just think that’s something that it’s amazing in the world today what technology allows us to do within the confines of whatever it is that.
Whatever it is that we do. It’s. It’s. It’s crazy. So let me ask you this. Talk about the.
Talk about the agent piece of it and just, again, how you guys interact with agents on both sides for, like, dealing with players, dealing with coaches. Just talk to me about the agent part of it.
George Michalowski
00:56:15.820 – 01:03:41.870
So a really interesting development that we started to realize at the end of last portal season, I guess in the in in the thick of it last portal season. So about a year ago, coaches always came to us with, hey, what’s this player’s number?
They were either using our service for that reason and looking in our database, refreshing it, refreshing it to see that player’s information pop up when they heard he was going in the portal, or they were texting me or calling me and say, hey, how do I get in touch with this kid? How do I get in touch with his parents? Who’s helping him with his recruitment?
That was the number one question that I would get in the beginning of this was, what’s the kid’s number and who’s helping him?
And as someone who’s trying to please these guys to help them out to fulfill their needs, I was always trying to track down the kids numbers and if we didn’t have them already from some high school tournament that I covered five years ago or someone on our team covered and we would reach out to the kids with a dm.
But we realized last year those questions, the language started to shift and now it has completely shifted to the point where coaches started to ask us last year, who’s his agent? That’s all I care about, who’s his agent? A lot of them too would just say, what’s his number? And just simple thing.
But I always direct them straight to the agent because that number changes frequently with a lot of these kids and agents. But yeah, I mean, we realized that that information flows through the agent pretty early. I think again, our competitors did as well.
Like we, we have tremendous respect for all of the companies that do similar things. Verbal commits, made hoops. I mean, even Synergy does some transfer things and verified athletics. There’s too many to name. Adam Finkelstein.
There’s a lot of people out here doing similar things and we have tons of respect for them. We believe that a rising tide raises all boats. Is that, is that the quote? That’s it. Yeah, something like that.
So we, we, we see this trend in agents becoming the primary decision makers as crazy it is as it is to say that’s the way it is right now. whether that’s for the better or for the worse for the player. I, I think it’s a pretty, pretty clear generalization we could make there.
But the agents have the negotiating power right now in a lot of these situations. So long winded answer again.
But yeah, man, we’ve noticed that the agents are becoming more and more a Part of this process, the coaches have kind of lost their traditional ways of doing recruiting and calling the kid and calling his parents. And they’ve abandoned that.
Not entirely because you still have to recruit the kid obviously, but at least for the first step, man, it’s going through the agent. And that is happening right now as we speak. There are coaches calling agents more than there are coaches calling players.
I’m confident in that statement. So with agents we do a lot of different things. We connect them with players who need agents. That’s one of the features that we give to agents.
We also help agents give their players exposure. We kind of act as a marketing arm for these agencies in a way.
So if an agent says, look, I want to get my players in front of your 50,000 follower audience with 9,000 coaches. We did some study last summer and how many coaches actually follow us? There’s 8,9000. So it’s, it’s a real platform for these players.
And I know there’s a lot of BS noise around promoting what agencies tell you because it’s obviously trying to benefit them. We try to vet that information as much as we can and provide fact based posts for these players who are represented by the agents.
With that being said, even when we post just stats alone, like I said earlier, even if it’s a kid who didn’t play who had zero stats, I’ll give you an example. I won’t share the kid’s name because I don’t have him here to ask for permission.
There was a player who was available late in the season, into the actual basketball season this year and there was a lot going on.
I mean you definitely noticed Mike, and a lot of the listeners here, if they’re tapped into the college basketball world, especially during last season, there were, there were an increasing number of mid season additions which I don’t think anyone could really explain how or why that became a thing. It was just wild.
There were kids who didn’t get picked up from last season’s transfer window who just kind of stuck around and still had eligibility and all of a sudden they could play the next day.
So there was actually one kid who really had nothing going in his recruitment and he reached out to us if we could post them and asked if we could post them and we put him up on our page and man, he told me he re he heard from 50 schools in that first day. And so we heard that and we were like, look, we obviously want to stay about the right things.
We obviously want to Help players first and foremost, help coaches and then help agents and also help provide fans, help fans scratch the itch of, of getting this information. But we were like, our, our platform is pretty powerful for the, for the size of our team, myself, one other guy, and then three, four contractors.
our, our platform is pretty powerful.
So we realized like, we can really pitch this to agents, man, and tell them like we can get the word out there about your clients, about your players.
We’ve had, I’ve had coaches tell me like you guys should just start an agency and charge players at a super tiny percentage and get there, get the word out there like you already do, because they’re like that that’s kind of what they really need an agent for. But that’s not in our plans. At least short term. I think it’s a cool idea.
There’s a lot of different things that we think about all the time in terms of long term plans. But yeah, man, it’s been really interesting to see the evolution of, hey, I need to go on a home visit.
I need to go recruit the kid while his mom makes me spaghetti and meatballs. To. Now I don’t even know what his mom’s name is, but I know his agent and I have a feeling I know what his agent’s going to ask for.
Let me get on the phone with him right away.
So that, that’s from my point of view, man, the biggest change in the, the recruiting process in terms of the actual day to day, minute by minute process of landing a recruit.
Uh we, we see recruits all the time like Pitt, locally, they, they’ve, I think they’ve signed eight players out of the portal already and I think maybe three or four of them have, have visited. Um, again, I don’t know, I don’t know that for a fact. They may have visited and it wasn’t reported on.
But based on what I’ve seen compared to previous years, these commitments are flying into all schools all over the country without these kids even visiting the school. So it’s, it’s wild, man.
Mike Klinzing
01:03:42.910 – 01:04:41.640
Certainly. It certainly is. Let me ask you this about agents. So in your dealings with them, what makes a good agent?
Because I think one of the things that people have concerns about, right, is if you’re going to be an agent for an NBA player or major League baseball player, an NFL player, because you have the union, there’s a process that someone has to go through to be certified. Whereas right now to be a quote, agent for A college player, there is really no qualifications.
I could hang up my shingle behind me today and say, I’m now a college player agent. You want to come and help me? And I’ve got contacts with coaches through the podcast. Let’s do it.
I’m your agent, so I don’t want to ask you to say something negative about agents. Let’s focus on the positive. So in the, in the, in your dealings with agents, what are things in your mind that make for a good agent?
Somebody who’s out for the player’s best interest. What have you seen in your dealings with agents?
George Michalowski
01:04:42.280 – 01:08:36.579
When I see a player who is represented by an agent commit to a school and I know or I’ve heard that they had heard from or been offered by a school maybe above them in terms of cool gear, in terms of money they could have made, I have a pretty strong feeling that that’s a good agent. Now that’s not to say that every kid who commits to a high major school has a bad agent. I’m just saying when these agents prioritize fit.
And as someone who watches a lot of basketball and works with guys who watch even more basketball, we have these conversations all the time like, that kid is not going to fit there. This is a clear case of we know what’s going on. The agent wants a big cut.
But when I see a player go to a school, especially at the mid major level and high major, high major teams are recruiting nowadays, a lot of transfers that would have typically ended up at the mid major level and they’re getting them to be their eighth man, their ninth man, and in case of emergency, a good practice player. But in case of emergency come in and play. So there are a lot of kids that could go high major that are ending up at mid majors.
And I love seeing that because I know their agent has their best interests in, in first and foremost in their mind. And the player has his head on his shoulders, right?
He’s not just chasing the, chasing the logo, chasing the quarter zip, chasing the the sweatsuit and the nil money. Now there are a lot of mid majors out there with a lot of money. So I’m not going to act like these kids are turning down a million to make $1.
But at the same time, what makes a good agent, I think is someone who prioritizes fit over everything.
I actually have seen Dan Poneman, who started weave, he’s probably been in the nil agency side of things as long as anybody that I’ve seen and interacted with in this business. He said something similar. He’s like, we are all about fit at weave, and I respect that. They’ve built something really special there.
They represent a lot of players, so it’s really hard to represent a lot of players at the same time. You’ve got to be focused on the fit for all those guys.
So I wish them the best of luck, obviously, what they’re doing, but, man, they stand for the right things.
Like when I see agents coming out and saying things like that and actually doing it and actually sending kids to schools who have been really good and who have been proven to develop players like Robert Morris is a great example that’s right down the street from me here around Pittsburgh and Moon Township.
Andy Tool has done an unbelievable job of developing players, of winning games in a place where I saw I was ranked by the opposing coaches as the top job in the Horizon League this past off season and one of those polls. But, man, like, if you’ve been to a game at Robert Morris, I don’t think you’d say it’s the. The top job in the Horizon League.
That’s nothing against their fans. It is what it is. That gym is. Is pretty empty. I think Andy would say the same thing, but, man, can he coach and can he develop?
So when I see agents send kids to programs like that where maybe they aren’t making as much money as they could at an A10 school, but they’re going to get better their family is going to be happy, they’re going to be surrounded by great people and live on a great campus and go to a great school. I love seeing that. I think that’s the most important thing that agents can do to.
To prove they’re good at what they do is not just sign kids based on a dollar amount, not just lead kids to sign, just based on a dollar amount at a school and really prioritize fit, I think that if you.
Mike Klinzing
01:08:36.579 – 01:10:29.030
Go back to the pre nil, pre portal era, I think the same thing probably applies, right.
Ultimately, you want to find the right fit for you to be able to develop as a player, hopefully to develop as a student, as a person, to go along with that. That’s the one thing that I think now sometimes gets lost in all the discussion is the academic side of.
We forget that we’re still talking about college athletes and the need for them to get an education. But ultimately, I think FIT covers a lot of that. It covers the basketball side. It covers the fit between the coach and the player it covers.
Am I a fit at the school itself, academically? All those things I think were relevant before, and they continue to be relevant now. It’s just a matter of.
Unfortunately, some agents, players don’t necessarily look at it that the fit is the most important. They’re looking for, as you said, the deal or the swag or the. Whatever the image, whatever it may be that they’re chasing.
Ultimately, the people who end up the happiest are the people who find the right fit for themselves if they’re a player, their player if they’re an agent. And I think fit, as you said, is critically important.
Let’s zoom out for a second and just give me your take on where we are with Nil, with the portal, the conversations that you have with coaches, with agents, with players. What’s the level of satisfaction, confusion, understanding of where we’re at, where we’re going, where are people?
Just with the whole thing that five years ago nobody would have ever predicted that it would look like this. Where are people on the whole process of where this thing sits?
George Michalowski
01:10:30.070 – 01:16:05.730
Coaches are frustrated and confused. I would say that much. It seems like just about every level feels that way.
Major coaches, I think a lot of them are frustrated because they lose their top guys every year. It’s a new reality. A lot of them have adopted that, and I respect them for that.
I think high major coaches are upset by how much money that those kids are demanding. And even on the market, it’s a kid who hasn’t produced much is demanding a ton of money.
And, uh, the reality of it is someone’s paying them that much a lot of the time, uh, their, their idea of a market value on a kid, which is why I said earlier, man, like, even coaches can’t pin down what exactly the market value is on a kid. So I think overall right now, a lot of coaches are kind of feeling negative feelings toward the state of the game. It’s hard for me.
It’s hard for me to feel negative about where the state of college basketball is. For the only reason being the product on the court was unbelievable this year, I thought not just in March Madness, but especially in March Madness.
That tournament was fantastic.
I think there were great games between unbelievably talented teams at the highest level throughout the tournament and throughout the season, where I totally understand and feel the frustration is at the lower levels and is in the by games in November. And when your best player is scoring 25 points on a Mid major team against a high major in a by game.
And the handshake lines are the first interaction between them and their new coach. Like I get it man. You’re the one who put in the legwork.
You’re the one who recruited this kid in an AAU tournament four years ago and fell in love with his family and got the kid to fall in love with your family. I totally understand.
But overall it’s, it’s a situation where, and we talked about this a bit before we got started and I heard in your last show you talked about this as well. Nobody, nobody seems to know what this will look like in five years. Even in one year, in two years, in three.
There is no one out there who has a perfect idea of where this is going. And if they are out there, tell them to. If they’re listening, email me. I’d love to get you on board with the full report.
But seriously, it’s a situation of confusion. I mean a lot of people are wondering like when is this bubble going to burst in terms of how much money is, is being thrown into these teams?
We saw pretty quickly with that $20.5 million revenue sharing total, that obviously wasn’t a limit, wasn’t a cap for how much these teams can really pay players. Now those schools, as I’m just talking out loud here, but those schools have to split that up if they have all the other sports, right?
So they’re going to go over and raise that money through boosters like they always have and like they did with collective.
So there’s a lot more money still pouring into these programs, creating some unbelievably high budgets, creating some unbelievably high values in the mind of these transfers and agents. So it keeps going up, it has not stopped going up.
The amount of coaches that I hear from that kind of laugh at the, the values that kids come to them with it increases every day.
There’s, there’s so many coaches and we work with mostly, at least I, I would say I interact with mostly the mid major coaches that we worked with on a day to day basis that the high major guys have such big staffs that even if they do use our service, they kind of can answer their own questions with, with a lot of this stuff. But I think a lot of these coaches, man, they, they come to us and say, look like that’s an unbelievably high number. That’s unrealistic.
But it’s, it’s the number this year, it just is. It’s. The whole thing keeps growing, keeps expanding. And I do think it’ll. It’ll have to come down because at some point when you.
As a booster, I mean, I’ve never donated money to a basketball program, but the return on investment just doesn’t seem to be anywhere near worth the dollar signs that are going into these teams at the highest level. And I think once that bubble bursts, I think everything will kind of come back down to earth. It’ll trickle down, and that will be awesome.
The kids will be making money. I don’t know how exactly it all look, but kids will be making money.
Everyone will have a better idea of a market, of a kid’s market value, of what he can bring to a team, what the return on investment could be.
I think more transparency is great, but at the same time, every single time I turn on ESPN or anyone on social media who’s talking about, hey, we need change, and banging their hand on the table, no one ever seems to actually propose or make the change. So I’m not going to sit here and act like I know the answers of how it’ll look, because I don’t. And I don’t think anyone does yet.
So, Mike, I’m excited to see what happens, though. It’s. It’s. It’s an exciting time, I’ll say that much.
Mike Klinzing
01:16:06.690 – 01:16:31.600
I could not agree more. I think that you made a great point that it’s not sustainable. It has only gone up since the system has been in place.
I don’t think that can continue to happen. I look at the old system where coaches could sign a player, leave immediately, and then the player stuck, and if they want to transfer, they had to.
George Michalowski
01:16:31.600 – 01:16:32.320
Sit out a year.
Mike Klinzing
01:16:32.480 – 01:19:51.560
Seems inherently unfair that there was one set of rules for coaches, one set of rules for players, then you have the nil piece of it, of schools benefiting from just, let’s just say the tournament revenue and the players don’t get a piece of that, or they’re selling jersey. All that stuff makes complete sense to me that all those things should be in place. And then you made the great point of going back to boosters.
And this is a conversation that I’ve had with people where if I’m a fan, a booster, an alum of a particular program, the program used to come to me and say, hey, we’re doing fundraise for a new practice facility, or we’re doing a fundraise to buy new uniforms, or we’re doing a fundraiser to redo our locker room. Well, now I can donate to that.
And I see that my $3,000 or $10,000 or a hundred thousand dollars, whatever it is that I put to it, I see that that created a new locker room for my team or that created a new practice facility or that got my team an alternate set of road uniforms or whatever it is. There’s something tangible. Whereas now it feels like, okay, school comes to me, hey, we want you to donate. All right, I’m going to give $5,000.
What’s my $5,000 going to? Well, it’s going to pay our backup point guard his salary. And then I don’t even know if that kid’s going to stay at the school.
I don’t know if they’re going to be productive. I have no idea. I’m just paying their salary.
And then next year you’re going to come back to me with the same ask for either the same player or a different player.
That just feels like, again, as you said, something that at some point a booster is going to throw up their hands and be like, I don’t know what the return on my investment is, because at least when I’m refurbishing the locker room, that thing’s going to last for 10 years before we got to do it again. And there’s some. There’s something tangible that I can see, whereas the salary piece of it feels a little bit different.
I know we’re not calling it a salary, but that’s essentially what it ends up being. And so it’s just, I have no idea where it’s going to end up. And it will be. I’m just like you.
It will be very interesting to see where this college basketball landscape 10 years from now, what it looks like and how it all ends up getting to where it goes.
Whether it ends up being Congress getting involved, whether the NCAA somehow figures out a way to do things without being sued and challenged in court, which right now is kind of, I think, why they’re not. They’re not trying to do anything because they know that anything that they try to do, they’re probably going to lose that lawsuit.
Which, again, legally makes a lot of sense. But when you look at what may be best for college basketball, probably those two probably don’t fit quite right. So it’s definitely.
The landscape is super interesting. Before we wrap up, I want to ask you two questions.
So part one of the question is, when you look ahead over the next year to, as a company, what do you see as being your biggest challenge to Continue to grow and improve your services. And then the second part of the question is, when you think about what you get to do every day, what part of the job brings you the most joy?
So the first part, the biggest challenge. Second part, what part of the job brings you the most joy?
And if you forget the second part, which sometimes guys do as they get into the first part, I’ll remind you.
George Michalowski
01:19:52.040 – 01:28:56.550
Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Biggest challenge. Personally, I think it’ll be learning to expand into different, different streams of revenue.
We tried that this year. We wet the beak, I’ll say. We started charging agents for some of that help that we do for them. We started charging the players.
We continued charging the coaches and selling a product to them. So that business development of, okay, now we have a lot more clients in a lot of different areas. How do we maintain those streams of revenue?
How do we maintain good relationships and a good service? That’s the biggest challenge for me right now, as we’re starting to grow in those spaces, into those different areas.
And I anticipate a year from now that’ll still be my biggest challenge, that I’ll learn every single day based on every interaction, man, how to get a little bit better. I’ve got a quote on my wall up here that says, forgive yourself for not knowing what only time could teach.
And that is something that I heard, and I wrote it on my wall because I loved it so much, and I can really relate to that. I have no idea what my challenges will be in a year from now.
I just know that I’m going to learn from what my challenges are today and tomorrow and the next day and use them to adapt and to stay alive. we’re a startup. We’re trying to stay alive every single day or trying to help a lot of people.
So that’s what I think the challenge will be, is how do I please all of the players that work with us? How do I please all the coaches that work with us?
How do I continue to please all the agents that work with us, too, while selling more and more, while making sure that we’re not just selling more and not helping people as much anymore. One of the things that we did this year that I thought was really important to me and to my business partner, Matt, with our player package.
We’ve seen other services and football and basketball charge more money for player exposure. We’ve seen services and especially football charge a lot more money in, like, thousands. We charge a hundred dollars.
We’ve seen services charge thousands of dollars and say look, we will get your tape in front of every coach that we know. We will connect you. We will guarantee you recruiting opportunities. We sat down. We really didn’t want to charge players a fee.
We loved how we were free for all players. How we could help so many players every single year was very rewarding because of how powerful our network was and our platform.
But we sat down and we said, look, we don’t have enough time to help this many players sustainably every year and survive as a startup. So we said, look, how can we really provide value to players?
So our idea, and it’s been awesome, has been four posts instead of just one post on our platform for each player. And the first post comes from the Portal Report account. You’ll see those every single day where it says this kid is available.
Here’s some of his stats. Coaches reach out to him here on his page. The next post comes from my personal account, Michaelowski cbb.
On there, like I mentioned earlier, I write about what that kid’s looking for. So you can look at my Twitter right now and scroll through and see I’m looking for a winning culture.
I’m looking for agriculture, mining, degree. Like, there’s all sorts of answers, like we said earlier, that kids put. Some of them are pretty funny.
But then Matt Kramer, my business partner, puts some stats and he’s our analytics guy, so he’ll throw some screenshots of our profiles on there. And then Riley will tell the story of the kid, like, what is it that coaches should know about these kids?
He asks them different questions every time. So we really try to put a lot of value into that player package.
We do the same in the coach package with all those conversations, the same in the agent package.
So my challenge is going to be, I anticipate, and it is today, is how do we make sure that we keep growing while not fading away with how much value and help that we can provide to those people. So that’s another long winded answer, Mike, for you. But those are the biggest challenges. I did remember your second part of it.
What brings me the most joy in what I do every day? There are a couple different things. Uh, I think first and foremost, it is the reactions from players that we get. We have always.
And that’s how I started. We talked about my journey was writing stories and writing tweets about players. Uh, I. There is nothing cooler than hearing from a player.
Hey, I received 10 calls right after you posted me. I’m going on four visits in the next Month. And I didn’t even know any of the coaches before that.
Again, I don’t want to take any of the credit for that. These players are the ones who put the film out there. They’re the ones who show up every single day in practice and work.
But the power that our platform, and again, our competitors too, like the power that this universe online has to boost out these players and give them real life opportunities is so incredible. So when we hear from players, man, like, we had a player last week say to us, and this was a guy who we haven’t even followed or DMed him in a year.
He. So he transferred last cycle, 24, 25, and landed on a team and ended up winning a conference championship.
And he messaged us and I thought this was so awesome. I sent it to, I had Riley, who he, the player sent it to, send it to all of our guys on our staff. He said, thank you guys so much.
Again, this was a year after we had even posted him. He said, thank you guys so much again, you guys really helped me get a ring. And he sent us a picture of his conference championship ring.
So we were like, man, like, that is so cool to see. it’s always awesome to hear from players directly.
The other, the other time that I really feel joy doing this is the success or I guess positive interactions that my co workers have that the guys who work on our team have.
I went to the A10 tournament every single game of the tournament here in Pittsburgh just to hang out talk to all the coaches I know that were in town, talk to all the reporters I knew from back when I was a reporter. Riley Frayne stayed with me, crashed on my couch all week. We had a great time for sure.
But it was so cool seeing him approaching coaches that he had met on his own, that he had met with me.
Like all these relationships that Riley’s built and watching him interact and talk about our product and talk about how we can help you if we haven’t helped the coach before, or talk to coaches that we’ve worked with for three straight years and be like, look, man, like cut me some slack. Why are you calling me all the time?
Like joking around with these guys, just having real life interactions, I’ll say with our clients and with the team members at the Portal Report has been my favorite part of the job, no doubt. I mean, we had a, we had a great time at the Final Four recently. Matt and Riley came with me there and we Just had a blast.
I mean, how it is every, everyone in the basketball industry that should make it to one if they haven’t yet. But we didn’t look at it as a networking opportunity.
We looked at it as, look, these, these guys are all interested in similar things as we are. So let’s go out and meet as many people as we can, but not stress about it. And that’s what we did.
I mean, I watched Matt go up to Nolan Smith who we were all fans when he was a player and obviously now he’s a, he’s a head coach. He did a great job in his first year.
But I watched Matt go up to Nolan Smith and tell Nolan Smith that Matt’s three year old daughter picked them to win the NCAA tournament this year in his bracket. And they had a good laugh and he got his phone number and they, they they exchanged some texts here and there.
So like that experience and then seeing Riley and the rest of our guys, man, is, has been so cool for me because it’s become something bigger than me. I mean, it always was. I didn’t start it alone.
I can’t talk about the poor report without Mikeovka and, and the rest of our team here in Pittsburgh who helped me launch a site and get us off the ground. So yeah, man, that’s. Again, I know I’ve been, I’ve been yapping, but, but it’s, it’s. I got a lot of great stuff to talk about.
It’s really a blessing that I get to do this.
Mike Klinzing
01:28:56.870 – 01:29:25.090
It’s awesome. It’s great stuff.
And what you guys have built from the ground up to be able to again provide value to so many different constituencies within college basketball, I think is a credit to what you guys have done. Before we get out, George, I want to give you a chance to share. How can people find out more about what you’re doing with the Portal Report?
Share, email, social media, website, whatever you want. Give the elevator pitch. Sell people on it, tell them where they can go to get it. Go.
George Michalowski
01:29:25.810 – 01:31:09.930
Yeah, the Portal Report on Twitter is our biggest platform. You can also follow us on Instagram at the Portal Report. We are expanding more and more into women’s basketball with each day.
So if you are or know someone that is interested in women’s basketball, whether they’re a coach, player, agent, fan, definitely follow TPR WBB on Twitter.
We don’t have an Instagram for the women’s basketball side of things, but we’re starting to post more and more information on the women’s basketball portal at tpr wbb.
If you are a coach, if you are an agent, if you are a player, or if you’re looking to get out of coaching or anything in the basketball industry excites you about potentially working in the industry. We would love to talk.
we have worked with former coaches, we’ve worked with former agents, former journalists, pretty much make up our whole staff at some point or another. someone. Everyone on our staff had some media experience as well. But, yeah, we. We’re always open.
So look at the PortalReport.com you can reach out to George the PortalReport.com to hit me directly. And my inbox isn’t. Isn’t too crowded, so I’m excited to hopefully hear from some people who listen and even if.
Even if you just want to say what’s up and hopefully connect sometime, I mean, that’s another great part about the basketball world. So, yeah, reach out whenever at those avenues. And Mike, I want to thank you, man. This was a really fun conversation, number one.
And number two, just appreciate you reaching out and giving me a platform, man, to. To get the word out there about what we do is. Is something that I’m. I’m very grateful for. So thank you.
Mike Klinzing
01:31:10.250 – 01:34:05.880
Absolutely. Thank you for taking the time to jump on and.
And share everything that you did about the Porter Report and how you guys went about building the business and what the service is all about.
I think, again, there’s tremendous value in what you guys are doing in this crazy space where everyone’s trying to figure it out and to be h. To have a resource that can help to navigate through all the choppy waters that is this portal nil world. Kudos to you guys for. For building something that has. That has value.
And you said something there about just, again, connecting and the way the basketball world works. And it’s one of the things that I’ve said on the podcast numerous times that we started this thing in 2018.
And if you would have told me at some point that I would have developed real relationships and friends through having people on this silly podcast, I would have told you that you were crazy. But the reality is, that’s what’s happened.
There’s so many people that have come on that are willing to share what they know because they love the game of basketball. And I always say that there’s no way that I could ever give the game of basketball back what it’s given me.
And so if this podcast, in some small way, somebody finds value in it and helps make the game better, then I’m doing my little part to try to give back to the game. That’s been so good to me.
And again, to hear you say that, and again, the contribution that you guys are making to improve the basketball space for people who are in it, I just think coaches are willing to share, people are willing to share. Everybody’s interconnected.
You’re one or two people away from having a relationship with this guy or that guy, or showing up at the Final Four and talking to Nolan Smith or whatever it is. All those things. None of those stories surprise me anymore. When it comes to the basketball world, everybody’s open, everybody loves the game.
People want the game to be better. And that’s a theme that’s run through this podcast since we started. So I’m glad I reached out to you.
I’m glad we got an opportunity to have you on, learn more about what you’re doing. It’s been a lot of fun to talk to you tonight. Really appreciate it and to everyone who’s out there listening.
Thank you and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks. Your first impression is everything when applying for a new coaching job.
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Narrator
01:34:09.640 – 01:34:11.440
Thanks for listening to the Hoop Heads Podcast presented by Head Start Basketball.