“THE TRIPLE DOUBLE” #6 WITH ROB BROST, BOLINGBROOK (IL) HIGH SCHOOL BOYS’ BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 902
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The 6th episode of “The Triple Double” with Rob Brost, Bolingbrook (IL) High School Boys’ Basketball Head Coach. Rob, Mike, & Jason hit on three basketball topics in each episode of “The Triple Double”.
- Coaching a team with a star vs. a more balanced team with depth?
- What core concept in your program is the most difficult to teach?
- How do you handle referees?
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What We Discuss with Rob Brost
- What are the benefits and challenges of coaching a team with star as opposed to a deeper team that is more balanced?
- What core concepts in your program are the most difficult to teach your team?
- How a coach should handle officials…
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THANKS, ROB BROST
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TRANSCRIPT FOR “THE TRIPLE DOUBLE” #6 WITH ROB BROST, BOLINGBROOK (IL) HIGH SCHOOL BOYS’ BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 902
[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here with my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight. And it is time for Triple Double number six, our first one of 2024. Welcoming back in Rob Brost, head boys basketball coach at Bolingbrook High School in Bolingbrook, Illinois. Rob, welcome back in.
[00:00:21] Rob Brost: Hey, great to be back, you guys. 2024 really hitting us with some weather here, but we’re going to play on.
[00:00:32] Mike Klinzing: Coach Jason’s already enjoying the idea that he has a snow day tomorrow. I am still awaiting the call.
[00:00:37] Jason Sunkle: Second day off school this week.
[00:00:41] Mike Klinzing: I’m still awaiting the call. Well,
[00:00:44] Rob Brost: Well, we’re going to go to school here in Illinois tomorrow. We had ours last Tuesday and the Friday before. So you guys are catching right up with us for sure.
[00:00:53] Jason Sunkle: Hey, so really quick, Rob, this is not part of the Trouble Double. Are you guys allowed to practice if you don’t have school?
[00:00:57] Rob Brost: It just depends on what the scenario is, you know. Obviously we want to practice, but the snow is usually easier to practice with than the cold for whatever reason, like according to our district admin. So we, we, most times we are, so like when the snow gets removed, like say we can practice late in the afternoon if the snow is removed or whatever, the cold, now the cold day, we didn’t get to practice.
[00:01:25] Jason Sunkle: See, we’re the opposite here, Rob. Like I practiced on Wednesday, like I had to wait till the windchill advisory was lifted. And so we practiced at one o’clock in the afternoon. Like that was when the, and so I practiced on Wednesday at one o’clock, but tomorrow because of the predicted snow. We were told no practice tomorrow.
[00:01:44] Rob Brost: So, yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t want to be an administrator, but some of those common sense maybe should prevail on some of those decisions, but I’m not an administrator, so I’ll just coach the team and I’ll leave it at that when you could practice your practice, right? When they tell me I can, I can, but I will tell you that both of the days. Trey and I made it to the gym and Trey worked out. My physique doesn’t really the workout might, might hurt me more than help me. So, I just rebounded for him. That’s all.
[00:02:15] Mike Klinzing: There you go. You got to get in the gym one way or the other.
I can completely understand. I got my kids to the gym on the days where we could not get to their team practices. So 100%, 100 percent agree. All right, topic number one, triple double tonight. Would you rather have a deep team of average to good players or a team that has less depth? And one star player. So this is a question that as I’ve watched a lot of high school basketball this year, and I’ve seen all different kinds of teams, and obviously over the course of my coaching career and my fandom, you’ve seen teams with all different types of breakdowns in terms of how many players are in a team, how coaches rotation, is there a team that has one really, really good player, and then a bunch of average players.
Just when you think about the ideal team. that you would like to coach? What does that team look like? And how do you compare having a team that’s a lot of depth, a lot of good players, but no superstar versus that team that has the one superstar player?
[00:03:22] Rob Brost: Yeah, Mike, when you first posed the question, I thought it was a great one. We made the final four, three times in the last whatever it is eight years here in Illinois in the state’s biggest class and we’ve kind of done it both ways. We’ve done it once with one or two really, really, really good players. And then obviously the other guys are good players as well.
And then most recently in, in the last time we made the final four, we had seven or eight really solid players. And we did it that way as well. So It always makes me nervous when the other team has the best player on the floor. Even though I have more depth, if that makes sense.
And so selfishly speaking, I would want a little bit of both. Some good depth and somebody that can get you a bucket at the end. So I think one of the great things about high school basketball, and I think about this this year in particular, is trying to figure out ways to win with what you have.
And whatever you’re dealt, you gotta figure it out. This year, for example, last year we were really big. So I think whatever you have, one of the challenges is to figure out a way to do it. And one of the key things to all of that is how much your kids buy in to the team concept, even if you do have a best player or a superstar player.
And sometimes it’s difficult when you have that superstar player because the other guys stand around and watch that guy play and it’s not their fault necessarily but we, we want everybody involved. And so, you know. This kind of gets into one of the things that we’re going to talk about in question two, but the direct answer to your question is really, really difficult.
I think you need I don’t know if star player is the right word, but you need somebody that’s going to be able to get a bucket when everything else breaks down. In timeouts and the last thing I say is, hey, somebody’s just going to need to make a play. Because. I’m drawing up what I think they’re going to do.
They’re drawing up what he thinks we’re going to do. And we’re both probably close to correct on what’s going to happen, but somebody needs to make a play. And so I think you really need those players and not necessarily talent, but kids that have grit, kids that can make second effort plays kids that won’t settle for giving up 50/50 balls, for example.
And so whether those are role players or star players, I think those things become of utmost importance, especially when you’re playing some of the best teams in the state or in the country in our case depending on what events we’re playing in. So I don’t have a direct answer for your question which one I would prefer, but I think Like I said before, one of the great things about high school basketball is trying to figure it out with what you have compared to what the other guy has, right?
And that’s one of the challenges and one of the great things about high school basketball, not only here in Illinois, but everywhere. And so I think if you’re teaching your kids grit, second effort plays, those types of things become more important than if you have the superstar or if you have depth.
Obviously. The more talent, the easier it is to win. And I know people say you can have too much talent, and there’s probably some truth to that as well, because there’s only one basketball out there. But I, I think if you can get kids to buy into their roles and play correctly, that you’re going to be successful.
And that’s one of the things that we try to do at Bolingbrook.
[00:07:21] Mike Klinzing: Are there challenges to each particular makeup of a team? In other words, when you think about coaching a team that has one guy who’s clearly the best player. Maybe one of the better players in the state. What are the challenges with putting together a team that looks like that?
And then what are the challenges with putting together a team that has say eight, nine, 10 kids who are all fairly similar? And ability. Clearly in the makeup of each of those teams, there are challenges that are presented. Yeah. In terms of how you structure what you do offensively and defensively, how you think about rotations.
Just talk about those two scenarios in terms of the challenges with dealing with each type of team.
[00:08:07] Rob Brost: I’ve said this many times, whether it’s at a clinic or. on podcasts or what have you. You can’t coach players that are really, really good the same way you coach everybody else. And that really ruffles some feathers, especially some old school guys who say you gotta coach everybody the same and everybody has the same rules and everybody’s the same.
And it’s just not how it is now because there’s so many factors that play into what these kids are hearing. Obviously, every kid wants to be coached hard, but you can’t coach really, really, really ultra talented players the same way that you, you coach the other guys. And so that doesn’t mean that you’re unfair in any way, shape or form.
It just means you have to coach them a little bit different. So the challenge is, one of the, the things we’ve faced in the past is, and I’m exaggerating a little bit, is standing around and watching when You know one of our better players is doing their thing. And so we don’t want that to be the case, but on the other hand, if a kid has it going, we want to keep them going and we want to let them cook a little bit, as they say, and let them, let them keep it rolling within the structure of sharing and playing team basketball and all of those things.
That’s why sometimes you see some of our better players will have 30 one night and then the next night they’ll have 12 and we’ll win both games. But it’s just a different way to go, to go about it. And so I think that’s one of the big challenges. If you have a superstar player, quote unquote, and then if you have.
A lot of players, and you’re deep, relatively the same talent level, it’s hard to differentiate playing time, for example, between all of those guys, because they’re so close in what their ability level is, and so obviously it’s great to have all of that. But then it’s hard to differentiate playing time and then who you go with at crunch time if you’re really deep, what the matchups are, how kids are playing, and so I also say this a lot at clinics, I go by feel almost 100 percent of the time in games, I just go by what I feel is going to work. And sometimes people don’t like to hear that. They want to, well you should look at the analytics and all that. And obviously that plays a part into the decision making. But the longer I’ve done this the more we talk about trusting each other and the team trusting me and decisions I make.
And we just have to live with them. Sometimes they work. Sometimes they don’t. Just like, sometimes they play well, meaning the players, and sometimes they don’t. And so it kind of goes back to some of the things we talked about on some of the other pods. Like, if your relationship with me is dependent on how much you play, how you play, or how well you play Then you’re on this team for the wrong reasons.
And that’s very difficult for 17 year olds. And in a lot of cases, it’s even more difficult for their parents to understand that. Try middle school boys. Yes. Yes. So we’re lucky because we’ve had a moniker of success here at Bolingbrook. So we have pedigree. You have the pedigree. Yes. And so we have a little bit of that going for us.
So that’s good. But like I said, every year is different and every season is different. And one of the big challenges is how you deal with, with what you’re given, but there’s challenges to each team, to each makeup of each team and the challenges will come no matter what you have.
[00:12:02] Mike Klinzing: I think what it comes down to is that, as you said, there is some science to coaching, and there’s probably more data available to coaches now than there has ever been, probably in many cases too much.
But I think what you’re describing when you’re talking about, I go by What I’m feeling as the game is going on, that’s the art of coaching, right? Like I can sit down with analytics and numbers and all these things and I can look at it and I can maybe figure out logically this should happen or that should happen.
But ultimately, when you’re coaching a game, it’s the feel, it’s the art of. Hey, I think this combination of kids is going to be the right combination at this time to help our team to win. I think that’s where, when you start talking about great in game coaches, they’re coaches who have that innate feel for who to have in the game, what needs to be done in a given moment.
Those are the things that really good in game coaches do. And those are things that I don’t think you can learn from a book.
[00:13:02] Rob Brost: No question. I think experience and then the foundation that you lay with your players over the season and over their careers is really important. And we’ll get into some of that stuff with, with some of the other questions that are coming up.
So I don’t want to jump the gun on some of that, but I think you’re exactly right. There’s an art to it and there’s a way to, to do it. And you see the most. The guys that are the best at it have a feel that maybe some other coaches don’t. And to a certain extent, I think you either have that or you don’t.
And it can certainly be developed over time. But it’s a hard thing to really put your hands on. And a hard thing to really quantify. But I can feel it as a coach as I have done this longer and longer like Jason said, we got a little pedigree. So now I’m more confident, more self aware and the losing doesn’t bother me now, like it used to.
And certainly we want to win every game, but now it’s, it’s just a different. Different level of awareness of what we need to be doing.
[00:14:16] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. And it’s a trust in your process, right? That process has been successful over time. And so, hey, one loss is not going to turn and upset the entire process.
[00:14:26] Rob Brost: Yes. And we talk about this all the time. I was just talking to you. We’ve lost two games by a basket. Both of them were at the buzzer and what we need to work on as a team is exactly the same. Whether we won or lost those games, what we need to do and what we need to work on remains constant, no matter the result of games.
And, and again, that’s difficult for 15, 16, and 17 year olds to grasp. And again, it’s difficult for their parents to grasp as well. So because whether you
[00:14:58] Jason Sunkle: So because whether you won that game or lost the game, the things you did poorly were the same, and you were going to work on exactly the next day of practice.
[00:15:05] Rob Brost: It’s just the result. That’s exactly right. And so we don’t, as funny as this sounds and people cringe, when I say this as well, we don’t really have control over the outcomes. We do the best we can to get the outcome that we want but we don’t control it. And so we have to be good with whatever the outcomes are and by good, I mean, just go back to work.
And we’ve talked about this, this year, especially with my team, we just have to be mature about our work because the work is the work, the scouting is the scouting, getting up the reps is the reps, doing the work is the work, regardless of, of what your record says. So those are things that are that keep reoccurring in our program year after year after year.
[00:15:48] Mike Klinzing: That’s a great segue into. Question two here on the Triple Double, which is what’s the hardest concept to teach your team that is a core part of what you do year in and year out, what’s the most difficult thing to get your team to, to learn, to buy into, to do however you want to describe it. It could just be this particular concept on offense, or maybe it’s something off the floor or take that whatever direction that you want, but something that you know is an important part of your team every year.
What’s the most. I
[00:16:25] Rob Brost: I think we’ve been spoiled at our place because I think our teams have done a relatively good job in these areas. What is always difficult on the floor to teach is sharing and sharing the ball and making the right play. And so, again, It’s not hard because we haven’t done a good job at it.
It’s hard just because of all the factors that play into how kids play and what they hear and how they’ve been taught prior to getting to us. And when you get to our place, Then it’s exactly the opposite of everything that you’ve been taught. And I don’t mean everything, but it’s opposite of that.
And what I mentioned earlier about the relationships with me, it like, if your relationship with me depends on how much you play, if you play or how well you play. Then you are the wrong spot. And so you have to trust what we do. You have to trust the coaches. And then by the same token, the coaches have to trust the players.
Like I don’t, when a player doesn’t execute a play, I don’t say, well, gee, Johnny did this, I don’t ever want to coach him again. I don’t do that. By the same token, I would hope that a player wouldn’t do that. If I make a mistake in what I’m doing. With my coaching philosophy or X’s and O’s or those types of things.
So I think on the floor, the concept of sharing and then really being happy for someone else when they play well, and we play well as a unit and putting that over yourself is the toughest on court thing to do year in and year out. And like I said, our kids have done a really good job at it. And we’re kind of spoiled with it.
But it’s so, so important on the floor. And then I think off the court, there’s a lot of things. Just understanding that this is a do it all place at Bolinbrook High School. You have to do it all. You have to be top notch in the classroom. You have to be top notch in the community. You have to say please and thank you when we’re at restaurant.
I mean, you have to do all of those things. And then on top of that, You have to perform when it’s your time on the floor. And so I think people sometimes don’t even mention the on the floor piece. That’s part of it here. Part of it is you need to perform when it’s your turn to perform and whatever we ask you to do, that’s the expectation.
And that doesn’t mean we need to win all our games. That doesn’t mean we have to win conference every time or win a region title or a sectional title. That’s not what I’m talking about. We don’t talk about any of those things. We simply talk about getting better day after day and then we talk about the only way you can become a better player is if you start by becoming a better person. And again, I know I’ve harped on this four or five times already. That’s hard for 15, 16, 17 year olds. And it’s really hard for adults to do that too. It’s hard for me to do it and I’m almost 50 years old. And so when you Concentrate on doing the right thing as a person, then your play will eventually follow.
Nobody’s playing poorly on purpose. They just play poorly sometimes. That’s just the way it is. That’s human nature. And one of the things I say at our parent meeting is, one of the first things I say is, we’re going to lose some games this year. And we’re going to lose to some teams that we shouldn’t lose to.
And you’re going to have to accept that because it’s going to happen and it’s going to happen more than once. And it might happen over and over. And certainly we’re going to do everything we can to prevent that from happening, but it’s going to happen because it’s, you’re not going to play well all the time.
I’m not going to coach well all the time. That’s just the way it is. And it’s just human nature. And some coaches cringe when I say that, well, you got to try to prevent that. Okay. I agree with that. You got to try to prevent that, but when it happens, you just got to be mature about your work and go to the next thing and, and, and do the work again.
So I know that was kind of a convoluted answer to the question. But there’s so many important things, and I think sharing on the floor, and then understanding that your relationships and how you act as a human being are more important than how you play in the game. And until you start being a good human being, your play is not going to get any better.
And again, those are hard concepts, not only for kids, but for adults as well.
[00:21:30] Mike Klinzing: They absolutely are. And I want to start with the on the floor piece of it when you think about sharing the basketball, right? And anybody as a player or as a coach, if you have ever had the privilege of being on a team where the ball moves and you’re playing with five other unselfish players who don’t care where the ball ends up and who puts it in the basket, those teams are A, Super fun to play with, on, however you want to phrase that.
And then two, more often than not, at least in my own experiences, both as a player and as a coach, when you and your teammates are willing to give the ball up, you end up scoring much more. than you probably would in other scenarios, because you end up getting better, easier shots because the ball moves.
And I think what is always interesting to me, and I know that part of this is a maturity thing and part of it is just an ability to be able to get your teams to do it. If you’ve been involved, like to me, the secret of basketball. It’s not really a secret. Like if you have two teams that are pretty even and one team shares the ball and moves it that extra pass and the other team doesn’t nine out of 10 times that team that moves the ball is going to end up winning games.
And I know that it’s 15, 16, 17 year old kids. And I know that coaches know that, but I’m not sure. And this is goes to your point. It goes to kind of why I asked the question of that’s something that is clear. Like, I know that’s the secret to basketball. I’m not sure I know how to teach that and get kids to believe that that’s true.
And I think that’s really, when you look around, part of me is amazed that More kids, teams, coaches don’t figure that out. But then on the other hand, I’m like, I figured it out, but I figured it out for me. I didn’t figure it out for my teammates. I didn’t figure it out for teams. I coached everybody has competing agendas and everybody’s playing the game for a different reason.
And there’s all these different things, parents and people that are saying this to that person and that. And so I think your answer couldn’t have been more right. In that respect, because I think I would have probably said the exact same thing. How do you get players to give of themselves and be selfless knowing that a, that’s going to help their team, but also then the ball comes back to you.
It comes back to you when you give it up. If you get everybody on your team on the same page and it’s a challenge, it’s a challenge.
[00:24:20] Rob Brost: There’s no, there’s no question about that. I also think there’s, there was a philosophical difference, whether some coaches admit this or not, but we let our players for the most part, make the decisions as far as on the floor.
Of course, we’re going to call out a set here, a set there, but we don’t call set after set, after set, after set, after set, we just don’t do that. And the last game we lost, if I would have done that, we probably would have won, but. In the big picture, that’s not how our kids are going to get better and then get prepared for the next level.
They have to be able to make decisions. And so, certainly we’re going to lose games because of that, but I think coaches have a tough time giving up control. And by control, I don’t mean letting players do whatever they want. They have to play within the system. But I see so much, and I’m not trying to bash any coaches, I’m not going to specifically mention anybody.
But there’s so much overcoaching that happens. Especially at the high school level. And I think some of the coaches they just want so much control over what’s going to happen. And it’s what I mentioned before, you don’t have any control over the outcomes of what happens. And until you realize that.
And I know when I say this at clinics, like half the crowd always like, Oh, no way, gosh, no, that’s not, well, that is how it is. I’ve been doing this a long, long time. Of course, you’re going to do everything you can to get the result you want. But until you give up a little bit of that control and then let your players do a lot of the decision making still within the system.
And that’s why I think the sharing is so important, especially not only for us, but every team. And so I don’t. Make them or joystick them. I joke with my assistants like should we joystick these guys for the last two minutes and just make them and then 99.9 percent of the time my answer is no. I don’t want to do that.
I want to let them feel the moment make the plays and share How they see fit and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t and so I think the sharing is really important.
[00:26:44] Mike Klinzing: Let’s talk about the off the floor and the being a better person and how that leads you to become a better player. And I think when I hear that being said, I think of two things. I think of one, that’s how you build a team. And then as you build a team of people that Year after year after year on that basic principle of we want good people who are going to do things as you described in the classroom, on the court, in the community.
Now you start putting that together. You start stacking those teams year after year after year. And now what you have is a program of kids, parents. A school, a coaching staff where everybody is bought into that as the standard for what it is that in your case, that Bowling Brook High School stands for.
And that starts on an individual level, right? It starts with you. Like you have to, as the head coach, you have to set that standard. You have to demand that excellence from the people who are a part of your program. And then slowly one person by one person, by one person that gets built. And then before you know it.
Somebody who wants to join in that knows before they even walk in the door that, Hey, if I want to be a part of this program, this is what needs to, this is what needs to happen. But it starts at the beginning with setting the tone as you get the job and you learn and you grow and you start to make sure that those are the kinds of people that you haven’t involved in your program.
And when you do that, that’s what leads to not just a one off success. I always feel like there’s a difference between I can put together a great team on the floor for one season because I have great talent or I had a kid transfer in or whatever. I can’t build a program that way. I have to build a program on people, whereas I think you can build a team on players, if that makes any sense.
[00:28:45] Rob Brost: No, there’s no question about it. I think you hit it right on the head and like the last thing we always go over before I leave them out of the locker room, before we’re going out to play our game we go over the sky, we go over all the stuff, we, we do all this stuff. And then I say something to this effect, all that stuff is important.
But these are the most important things, and I have play hard, play smart, play together, have fun, and then I have the word love, and then I put it in a square, and then I say, and you really, genuinely need to love everybody in here. It doesn’t mean you need to like them all the time. That doesn’t mean you have to Have them over for dinner all the time, but you got to love these dudes in here.
And if you don’t, then none of the scout and none of the stuff is going to work. And that’s what I always leave them with. And that’s always the last thing that we talk about. And so I think you have to, as the head coach said, an example that that’s what you’re going to do. So, when stuff doesn’t work.
Or when players play bad, you still got to love them. And that’s the first example you have to set. And then number two, you have to reinforce when you see them loving other players and you really need to reinforce those behaviors. And I think we do a pretty good job of it. Obviously nothing is perfect.
We’re not perfect at Bolingbrook. We have issues just like every other team, so I don’t want to make it sound like it’s a pie in the sky here at Bolingbrook High School, but we try to make sure that people care about each other. And the last month has been a perfect example of that because I was gone for several, a week and a half with my family situation.
And just some of the messages I got from players, and then when I came back, the hugs and the tears and all the stuff, I mean, you can just feel that it’s real. And so when you have that feeling, you feel good about your team, regardless of how they play. And so I think it’s really, really important that everybody differentiates all of that stuff.
And when you start becoming a better person, then your play will for sure follow. And if you do it the other way, your play will not follow. You might play good for one game, but you’re never going to make mass gains until you start to become a better person.
[00:31:15] Mike Klinzing: I will say this, in my experience, that those two things that we just talked about, the on the floor, being willing to share the ball and give to your teammates goes along with the type of person that you are and the type of person that you’re becoming.
And I don’t know about your experience, Rob. I’ve met a lot of people in pickup basketball and in various places who they play a brand of basketball that I don’t enjoy very much and those people tend to be people that I honestly don’t enjoy that much off the court either, if that makes any sense, because if you tend to be selfish on the basketball floor, I find that that carries over.
To some degree off the floor. And I think that the two things go hand in hand. I really think that if you can be selfless as a person that then you’re also going to be selfless on the basketball court. And ultimately, when you get guys to love one another and to buy into the team concept and to do what’s best, ultimately for the team.
Then you’ve got something. And that’s a lot easier to do with great people because people, I think, understand the bigger picture. And as you said, they’re 15, they’re 16, they’re 17, they’re 18 years old. So is it perfect? Absolutely not. It’s never perfect. It’s never as clean as you might want to make it.
But the reality is, is that those two things, I think go hand in hand. And as we said, they’re really, really difficult. To teach and it gets easier. I know we’ve talked about it here on several different episodes where for you at this point, your program has been established and that gives you an ability to point to, Hey, here’s our past successes. Here’s our guys who have come through and here’s what they think about it. Here’s what they know. And they’re passing that institutional knowledge back down through your program. I think for any coach that’s out there, when you start talking about how are you going to build a successful program?
A, you start it by building it with good people and you work with the people who are in your program to continue to help them to improve on and off the floor. And then that leads to, hey, If I can be selfless off the floor, I can be selfless on the floor. And now suddenly we’ve got things going. And that’s, that’s how I would look at it. If I was building a high school basketball program, I think that’s probably two pretty good pillars to build your program on.
[00:34:00] Rob Brost: Yeah. I think you hit it. And I think it’s really, really hard to do, and it’s really, really hard to, especially in the day and age we’re at now, because everybody wants instant gratification, and they want to win every game, and they think that they don’t have to wait for anything.
And I say this a lot to college coaches, our kids know what it’s like to wait their turn. They understand what it is because they have to wait their turn to get on the varsity at our place. Now, of course we have some freshmen that are super talented and uber talented. We’ve had two or three and we have one right now on our team, but they understand what the team concept is.
So everybody that played at Bolingbrook doesn’t tear it up at the college level. Eight guys playing Division One basketball right now. All of them are starting or are the sixth man. And a couple of them are just freshmen. So we’ve had a pretty good track record of preparing our guys for whatever they’re going to, to have to face.
And so again, there’s no guarantee ever that it’s going to be perfect, but we want people to be able to care about one another while they’re going through all of the stuff that’s, that’s going to happen to them.
[00:35:22] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. And I think learning those lessons, whether that’s resilience, whether that’s perseverance, whatever it may be in those particular situations, I think what, what I’ve tried to do with people that I’ve coached in the past and what I try to do with my own kids is you look at situations and you try to figure out, okay, here’s what happened.
Was it good, bad, indifferent? It doesn’t really matter. What matters is what did we gain from that experience that we can take to move us forward and to make us better in the future. And I think that that’s a lesson that I’m not sure I was always ready to learn as a parent, certainly. And it’s sometimes difficult to look at a situation where things aren’t going exactly the way that you hoped that they would and say, okay, what are we learning from this?
How are we figuring this out? How can I? Help my player or my kid to make it through this situation and take something positive from it that can help them to improve when you do that. You come out better on the other side. And I think that’s a great point that you make that look, things aren’t just always smooth sailing.
And sometimes when you go through those rough patches, that’s what makes you better both as a person, as a player, and then it pays off here. We’re talking about guys getting the opportunity to go out and play college basketball, which look. I’ve said it a million times. You want to go to a fourth or fifth grade AAU tournament and talk to parents and ask them how many of their kids are going to play college basketball.
It’s going to be like 98%, right? My kid’s going to be this college player and it’s going to go here and there and unfortunately statistics. Say otherwise, and it’s not easy and you got to take lessons along the way if you want to get there and the lessons that you learn are applicable. Hopefully not just to you as a basketball player, but to you in your life.
And I think that’s ultimately what we’re trying to do as coaches.
[00:37:17] Rob Brost: No question. No question. Completely agree.
[00:37:20] Mike Klinzing: All right. Question number three. This one, I don’t know, I don’t know if it’s on a lighter note, Rob, but definitely, definitely, definitely different, but something that as coaches, we don’t really talk about it all that much on the pod just in the course of regular interviews, but It’s something that coaches do all the time.
That’s how you deal with referees. What’s your philosophy on how much do you talk to them? What do you try to, are you, quote unquote, trying to work the officials? What’s your relationship with officials? Obviously, it’s different with different guys, but just how do you approach as you go into a game? How do you approach dealing with officials?
[00:37:59] Rob Brost: I think I’ve gotten much better at this. Let me rewind about 20 plus years when I’m a head coach at a junior college. And I’m 23 years old and I’m the head coach already. And we’re playing Indian Hills, which is ranked number one in the country, and they got like two former or future pros on their team.
We’re just getting killed. And the ref is standing right in front of me cause there’s a free throw being shot. And I said, Hey Steve, I can’t remember if his name was Steve or not, but I said, Hey, Steve, can I get a T for what I’m thinking? And he said, no coach, you can’t get a T for what you’re thinking.
And I was like, good. Cause I think you effing suck. And I didn’t say effing, of course.
[00:38:46] Jason Sunkle: You said freaking, right? You said freaking, right?
[00:38:48] Rob Brost: So of course, then he turned around and banged me up with the T. So that’s where I was almost 30 years ago I would never ever even think about doing anything even remotely close to that now.
So getting back to the question I think about officials a lot less now than I did even five years ago. I think that I have other things that are more concerning. Certainly during games, I will work officials. I don’t know if that’s the right word or what. And I’m the type of guy that I’ll ask a question on almost every call, but then I move on to the next thing and I’m, I’m done with it.
And as soon as the buzzer’s over, I’m totally done with it. And so guys that have had me in the past know this and they understand like I’m a good dude all of that type of stuff so they can do it. But. Guys that haven’t had me before it’s tough sometimes. And so I don’t have a particular philosophy with officials, but I try to protect my players, number one.
And I tell our players all the time, I will talk to the officials. You will not, I will protect you if need be. And normally they don’t need it and nothing, you know. outrageous is happening. And so the refs have a tough job as it is, and they’re getting creamed by the crowd regardless of what calls they’re making anyways.
And sometimes the crowd protects me too. Like our, our, our crowd protects me sometimes with officials as well. So I don’t have a straight philosophy, but I, I’m much less concerned about officiating now than I was. Even five, 10 years ago. And so I try to just let that work itself out and with the shortage of officials that there is now and all of those things, try to be very courteous to them at least before and after the game so that they continue to come and, and, and ref and those types of things.
So I will say that in the Chicagoland area, my experience has been much better than when we travel away from this area. And I don’t know if that’s because the officials know us or know our players or what, but it seems like for the most part, knock on wood, we have some pretty good officiating around here and we our conference is one of the top conferences in, in the state.
And so we get the same guy that assigns college games also assigns our high school conference. So he mandates that those guys do three or four high school games every year, or else they won’t get any college games. And so that helps with the quality of official that we get. And so that’s always helpful.
[00:41:43] Mike Klinzing: Do you ever have a conversation with your team as a game is heading into the first, the middle of the first quarter, second quarter, like, Hey, they’re kind of letting us play. Maybe we can get away with a little bit more or vice versa. Hey, we’re getting a lot of ticky tack stuff called. You got to be really careful with sticking a hand in there, trying to go up for a block shot. What are those conversations like with your team?
[00:42:07] Rob Brost: No question. We have those now. And especially with the. No one on one and fouls reset at the quarter. We try to be ultra aggressive if we find like there’s a minute and a half to go and even in the first quarter and we have one foul, like let’s go.
Let’s try to get some steals and let’s make this thing obviously we play at a fast pace so we always want things moving but let’s, let’s be ultra aggressive right here and try to do some things like that. And certainly you can use it as motivation as well. When we go into other places I might say something, whether it’s true or not, Hey, there’s only five people here that think we can win this game.
And that’s the five that are on the floor. And then I’ll say, and they got eight on the floor the three officials and their five players. And sometimes it’s just a motivational thing. I don’t really think that the officials are doing that. It’s just a good motivational thing for a short term hoorah and that type of thing. So but yeah, we do have those conversations and then like going into our game going into a lot of games, I, we talk about, hey, one of the only ways this team can stay in the game with us if we foul a lot and they get to the line and they’re just sitting there making free throws all day.
And so it plays into the game planning for sure.
[00:43:28] Jason Sunkle: To go along with that, like when you see a certain official. Does that, do you like know, Oh, this official doesn’t call this very often. So we can get away with it. Or does that, is that, do you not find that to be true? Because I find that to be true at the middle school level, that if I see an official that I know is not reffing the way that they probably, I think they should, and they’re kind of.
Kind of just letting things go. I tell my kids, Hey guys, this guy over here isn’t going to call nothing. So you just got to play through it. And when the other team has the ball, you got to play through it. And once again, I know middle school and high school basketball officiating is different.
It’s a two man game versus a three man game. It’s also a lot of the middle school officials aren’t reffing high school games. And they’re kind of just doing it for some extra money on the side and things like that. If I see an official. that I know is reffing this game, and this guy doesn’t call anything, I tell my kids, hey, He’s not going to call it. Just play hard. Do you find that at your level or not?
[00:44:27] Rob Brost: I don’t think it’s to that extent, to be honest with you, Jason. I, the quality of our officials is overall, I think it’s pretty good. And so I try not to. Pigeonhole guys into things just like I would hope they wouldn’t pigeonhole me, even if they’ve had me before.
Although I know earlier in my career I could have been not so easy to deal with from an official perspective. The other part is, at least in Illinois, we rate the officials after every single game. So we go on the IHSA website and I rate every official that we have and so that I don’t know if it gives, if it makes it better or worse, but I, I think it’s a, it’s a good thing to be able to do.
And by the same token if they tee me up and throw me out of the game, they have to write up a report on me. And so I think there’s some checks and balances in the whole thing.
[00:45:31] Jason Sunkle: Do the middle school coaches do that too? Or do you, think they have that for the middle school level.
[00:45:32] Rob Brost: I don’t think it’s quite that organized. But I think it’s good. And I’m to the point now where like, it’s almost, I almost dread doing it and I just give everybody a good grade and I just move forward to the next thing because officiating is not my thing. I have enough to deal with, with my team.
Yeah. And preparing for the next game and sometimes our assistant AD will say to me, well, you got so and so and so and so and so and so on the game on Friday. I don’t know whatever, it is what it is. And I know some coaches want to know like two weeks in advance who they’re going to have and all this stuff. I am not like that at all. I don’t do that.
[00:46:20] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. I always feel like you’re better off coaching your team and that’s not to say that you can’t talk to officials, that you can’t have a conversation, that you can’t angle to, as you said, protect your players. But at the same time, and then Jason and I have talked about this.
You see so many coaches that spend so much time arguing with officials and talking to officials.
[00:46:45] Jason Sunkle: J. B. Bickerstaff. I’m going right there, Rob. I’m going there. Sorry.
[00:46:51] Mike Klinzing: And it’s always like, I don’t quite understand like coach your team and spend less time worrying about it. Right.
It’s always that control the controllables, right? Guess what? You’re not. going to be able to control the calls that the official’s making. So try to do what you can to help your team win. And that’s kind of the philosophy that I’ve always subscribed to. And I think it goes to what you’re saying that you can’t worry about this official, that official, whatever.
I mean, I think, like I said, you can give your team, Hey, they’re calling the game kind of loose. Let’s be a little bit more aggressive or, Hey, they’re calling this one really tight. Maybe you got to be a little bit careful when you’re sticking your hand in there or trying to take a charge or whatever it might be. But other than that, I try to stay out of officiating.
[00:47:34] Rob Brost: No question. I think I’m moving more in that direction than, like I said, my philosophy and how I deal with officials has completely changed or I guess matured especially over the last 10 years of my career. And so I had an official say to me two or three years ago, man, coach, you’ve really, you’ve really come a long way with this.
It’s not something that I consciously think about. I think it’s just, I’ve realized that there’s more important things than that.
[00:48:09] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. What’s your thought on that no one and one rule?
[00:48:14] Rob Brost: I don’t like it, to be honest.
[00:48:17] Jason Sunkle: I don’t either. I hate it.
[00:48:19] Rob Brost: I think not having a shot clock and not having the one on one really prevents teams that are behind from coming back. And people will say to me like, well, your team’s never behind, so you don’t worry. Well, yes, we are. We’re behind just like everybody else. And so, I wouldn’t even mind. a one on one at the fifth foul and keep it like that and reset it every quarter, but just make it all one on one and reward the good free throw shooting teams.
And we don’t shoot free throw as well. So when we’re ahead. It really helps us because we’re going to get two every time. And so I just, and I don’t understand, to be honest with you, the, Oh, well, we’re trying to lessen injuries. So that’s why we’re not having that makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Like it’s okay on the second one, but it’s not okay on the first one. I don’t get that piece at all, but they don’t really ask me. So I’m just going to go, I’m going to give my opinion. I don’t really like it. But I’ll, I’ll go with it.
[00:49:28] Jason Sunkle: But I honestly think that they were trying to speed up the pace of the game. I honestly think that’s why they did it. Rob, like when I coaching the girls games this year, like I felt like my girls team, the games were so much quicker because we weren’t shooting so many free throws. I, and I don’t, I got it. And I think that’s. the boys, I’m only, I’m only two games into the season with the boys and like both my boys games were about the same length as last year.
So I don’t really see much of a difference in them, but the girls games, for sure. I noticed they were way quicker. So I think that was the pace of play may have been the reason too. I don’t know.
[00:50:00] Rob Brost: I can see all that. And I’m on, not a crusade, but I am really for the shot clock. And I’m also for like how Minnesota does it.
They have nine minute quarters or 18 minute halves. I can’t remember which it is, but so it’s a little bit longer and I would be all for that as well. But I think the shot clock is really critical to, to get in there and not so our guys can get scholarships or nothing. It just adds more strategy.
It helps the team that’s behind it. It just adds a whole nother level of decision making, which you want your, that’s what we’re trying to teach anyways. Habits and decision making. And so it just adds another whole layer of strategy to it which, which I’m for. And then the two, everything is two shots.
[00:50:56] Mike Klinzing: I can’t get used to it. Like I still, at the end of games. All right. There’s a foul. And the kid goes up to the line. I’m like, Oh, he’s shooting two, whether it’s four, whether it’s our team shooting two or the other team, I just can’t, I can’t get used to it.
It’s so bizarre to me that you get to go up and no matter what you do on that first one that you get to, I like the idea of five fouls and let’s make everything one on one. Unless it’s a shooting foul. To me. Totally agree. Makes a ton of sense. If you’re talking about pace of play right there, you’re eliminating one shot a bunch of times, and you still keep the pressure on.
It’s just, it’s very bizarre that we’re going to have, if this rule sticks, that five, six, just seven years from now, you’re going to have a whole generation of players that don’t even know what one and one is. That’s crazy to me. I can’t fathom that in any way, shape or form.
All right. Well, we hit all three topics tonight and we’re a little bit past our normal time. So we went about 52 minutes, but all good stuff, Jason. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. And Rob, as always. Thank you very much for your time.
[00:52:04] Rob Brost: Number six
[00:52:07] Mike Klinzing: We’re going to keep cranking these out. We missed December and we are back on track here in 2024.
Thanks to everyone for listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.