“THE TRIPLE DOUBLE” #1 WITH ROB BROST, BOLINGBROOK (IL) HIGH SCHOOL BOYS’ BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 809
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The debut episode of “The Triple Double” with Rob Brost, Bolingbrook (IL) High School Boys’ Basketball Head Coach. Rob and Mike hit on three basketball topics in each episode of “The Triple Double”.
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What We Discuss with Rob Brost
- What are the keys to having a great summer as a high school basketball program?
- How do you develop a player led culture?
- From the perspective of a high school head coach, how has recruiting changed due to the COVID 5th year of eligibility, and the transfer portal?
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TRANSCRIPT FOR “THE TRIPLE DOUBLE” #1 WITH ROB BROST – BOLINGBROOK (IL) HIGH SCHOOL BOYS’ BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 809
[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight, who is on family vacation. However, even without Jason here, we are going to introduce a brand new continuing segment on the Hoop podcast with Rob Brost, who is the head boys basketball coach at Bolingbrook High School in the state of Illinois.
And what Rob and I are going to do, we are going to call the. Triple double. And what that means is we’re going to bring Rob on and we’re going to talk about three topics that may be current events. They may be things that have just popped into one or both of our minds, things that we think that our audience of basketball coaches will find to be interesting, relevant, and hopefully will be able to shed some light on some of these topics.
But Rob, welcome.
[00:00:52] Rob Brost: Let’s see how this thing goes. Man, I couldn’t be more excited to be on with you again, And to be on a regular segment and to bring to the listeners a little, little bit of hopeful knowledge of, of where we’re coming from. And then just to, to learn a little bit more from you and then hopefully pass along to the listeners.
You know, some, some knowledge and things that they can take with them as, as they move about their seasons and their coaching you know, acumen And all of those things. So really happy to start this triple double thing and I’m excited to see where it goes.
[00:01:32] Mike Klinzing: What’s really fun, and I’m going to share something that I share with a lot of our guests at the end of the podcast after we stop recording. One of the things that I always say is that’s been really unique for me as the host of this silly podcast, is that you actually develop real relationships with people. No, and Rob is one of the people that we’ve developed a, a real relationship with here.
Through the podcast and we were able to connect in person this year down at an AAU event in Louisville. And it just to me, continues to be amazing what the game of basketball does. And the fact that the Hoop Heads pod has allowed me to meet great people and actual develop friendships. And I’m sure that as we continue to do this, it’s only going to strengthen.
The friendship that you and I have developed over the course of the last, I don’t know, four years when you first came on and then did a webinar and meeting in person and all these things. So I’m really looking forward, not just to tonight, but to continue to build this triple double thing and build our relationship.
So that’s all the sort of behind the scenes stuff here. But we’re going to dive into three different topics tonight and we’re going to start with our first one, which is, what do you think are the keys to developing. A good summer program for a high school team. What in your mind are the things that make for a great summer for a high school team?
[00:03:04] Rob Brost: Well, I know everybody has their different rules and how much contact they can have with their players, depending on the state associations that they happen to be affiliated with. But you know, from our perspective, We want to focus in on one or two, two things per summer to get our kids better.
And for example, this summer, we. Focused a lot on habits and decision making. And so one, we wanted to develop good habits over the summer. We have a kind of a younger squad than we’ve had in past years, and so we wanted to A, develop good habits. And then number two, we wanted to help them develop quality decision making and not, not just decision making on the floor, although that’s part of it, obviously making good decisions on the floor, but also their decision making.
You know, when they’re at school, when they’re at their jobs, when they’re with their families, all of those things. So our focus this summer was, was on developing good habits, number one, and then becoming a good decision maker, not only on the floor, but off the floor as well. So I think the, the key thing, Mike, for us, is to not try to do too much over the summer and focus in on those things that you.
Want to focus in on and that you deem important. And like I said, for us this summer, it’s habits and decision making. And then our overwrote overriding theme was, be a good teammate and what does it take to be a good teammate? So we want our kids learning all of those things. You know, the basketball piece kind of is what it is at Bolingbrook High School.
You you’re going to learn how to play and all of those things, but the habits, the decision making, and then the overall theme. Of being a good teammate. So I think the focus needs to be on one or two items that you want your kids to get better at
[00:05:04] Mike Klinzing: all right? So how do I take that from an idea of, all right, I want guys to be better teammates, or I want guys to make better decisions.
Is that through. Conversation, is that through sort of the things that you’re coaching them with on the floor? How do you make that Concrete.
[00:05:22] Rob Brost: Well, it’s all of the above. So the first thing we did this summer is I sat our guys in a classroom and I said, what? What does a good teammate look like? What does a good teammate do?
And they would come up with the items. I said what does a good teammate do? What are guys that you like to play with? What do they do? And the, the guys always come up with a list that includes are responsible, our leaders really encourage others go hard all the time. Are coachable, are accountable, and the list goes on And I let them list off about 15 to 20 items before we stop.
And then nobody ever says any physical traits at all. No one ever says is a good shooter, right? Can really handle the ball, has a 40 inch vertical. Nobody says any of those. So then we agree in that room that. Can’t everybody do everything on this list? Is that, is that possible? And we agree that it’s definitely doable to be a really good teammate.
And they’ll come up with other things like unselfish puts the team ahead of themselves. All of all of those things. And you’ll be surprised how close in alignment you are with your team when you let them speak to you and you don’t simply speak to them. And so when you let them have a voice in what the leadership looks like then they have more accountability in it.
And so that’s the first thing that we, that we did this summer. What does a good teammate look like? And then we agreed that we can all do this. And then we also agree that it’s going to be hard to do all those things because your mom or your dad or your people or your buddies are going to tell you, why aren’t you scoring more coaches holding you back, you’re passing too much.
You know, all of those things that the world or outside of our. Team will tell you that that’s what you should be doing when we know that being a good teammate is the most important thing. So I think that’s how we started off. I don’t know you know, what it looks like at other schools, obviously, but being a good teammate at Bolingbrook High School is utmost importance.
And then, and then developing the habits. Then we talk about the accountability that someone will obviously bring up when I ask what a good teammate looks like. And then, so that leads us right into the habits. And then, so those are focus points for us. During drill work, during things on the court, and then that transitions right into the decision making.
If you don’t make an extra pass or a guy is open and you’re selfish and you’re dribbling too much that all plays into the decision making piece. So what you reinforce then are the things that you focus on, if that makes sense. So it all leads together, and I have a couple younger assistants now, and you know, they, they, they say, I always wondered what the culture was like here, and it’s hard to know exactly what it is until you’re actually in it, until you actually experience it.
And so that’s, I take that as a compliment from my younger coaches because they, they really can feel it and they, they understand what it is, but only after they’re in it. And so you know, That is, is very complimentary from my standpoint. And so I think, again, getting back to the focus of the things that you want in the summer.
And ours just happened to be be a good teammate. And then habits and decision making particularly for this summer. All
[00:09:21] Mike Klinzing: right. So I don’t want to jump the gun for topic number two. Sure. But I’m going to ask you this question a roundabout way and it’ll eventually, I think, lead to part two.
But I have something else I want to bring up from this particular topic. But when somebody isn’t living up to what you guys talk about in terms of habits, in terms of being a great teammate, What happens when something is out of the character of what you expect, what your team expects? How does that get handled?
[00:09:51] Rob Brost: Well, it, it depends on what that thing is. You know, I tell our guys all the time, for example, if you don’t make the extra pass, you’re coming out because that’s a clear sign of selfishness. And so if, if that particular standard or the, the. You’re not being a good teammate. If that’s on the floor, then obviously that’s going to get corrected.
And hopefully, and this leads kind of into our second thing too. Hopefully it gets corrected by a teammate before it gets corrected by me and it gets corrected by a teammate in such a fashion that. It’s accepting from both parties. And so we talk about that and it always comes up in the, what is a good teammate discussion.
Encourages teammates, holds teammates accountable, but at the same time doesn’t demean people. All of those things that really, really good coaches do and they do it on a regular basis. Hopefully, and we talk about this all the time in our program. My hope is that the players will take some accountability for that because you don’t want me involved with those things because you control those things.
And so once I have to get involved, then You know, then they lose a moniker of control of the team. And so to answer your question directly it depends on what that is. If it’s something on the floor, something off the floor if it’s something as simple as being late, being late, it’s not, not being a good teammate.
And so you know, things like that have to be addressed immediately. And I try to do things in, in such a way where, We have correction, but we don’t demean kids. And then secondly we try to pile on the things that we like to see. And so if we see something that we, like, for example, a drill goes really well and we all went very hard, I’m going to obviously reinforce that.
And so you reinforce. What you want to see, and then you’ll see more of that. And so I think simple things like how you address your team and how you address individuals when they make quote unquote mistakes really helps build the culture, which I know is the, the second part of, of what we’re going to talk about today.
But I tell our guys all the time we, you want me involved as little as possible. Because if I’m not involved, that means you’re doing what you’re supposed to do. And so obviously I kind of see myself as the, the kind of the rudder be behind this big, big ship. And the rudder.
It doesn’t have to move very far to make the thing go way off to the side. And so you know, a lot of times our kids think that I am just standing there observing, and that is exactly what I’m doing because I want to be able to hone in to each individual player and what makes them them tick.
So I think all of those things depend on, on what it is. And when you’re not making, here’s the non-negotiables for us. Not going hard, not communicating. And then not being a good teammate, if you do any of those three things, that’s got bench written all over it. And so and I don’t care who you are And our guys know that you know, I don’t really get too upset if you know, our guys, I, obviously I’m not happy, but if our guys turn it over or they make a.
Basketball mistake because they’re going hard. I don’t really get after them for that, but I do get after them. If guys are open on an extra pass or guys are open on a pitch ahead and they don’t throw them the ball, those things, because those are just selfish plays and we, we, we don’t, we don’t allow that stuff to happen.
Obviously, it’s going to happen. During the course of games and practices because these are high school kids. And so we just try to focus on what we’re focusing on and make those things the most important thing and let the results fall kind of where they may.
[00:13:58] Mike Klinzing: So, bottom line, pick out one or two things that you feel like are most important.
Identify those through. Knowing your team and knowing where you are and knowing what it’s all about, and then holding people accountable to whatever it is that you have talked about with the team, once you’ve identified those topics, to me that makes a ton of sense. And obviously that’s when you’re dealing with team stuff.
Just real quick on an individual level, so you have players that you want them to improve skill-wise or they come to you mm-hmm. And they say, Hey coach, I want to get better. In the summertime, how do you approach that? What’s the way that you go about giving guys an opportunity to a, first of all, understand what they should be working on to get better on, and then how do they actually get the reps that they need in order to get better?
How do you, how do you handle that from an individual improvement standpoint?
[00:14:48] Rob Brost: Yeah, I think that’s a constant with us as well. So at the end of each season we have individual meetings with all of our players. And that’s where those things we talk about, what are you going to do between now and November 5th, or whatever that date is for the upcoming season to start.
What is our plan for you to get better? So that your skillset can improve. And so we talk about this a lot too. I think your mindset is far more important than your skillset, and that’s kind of counterintuitive sometimes, because obviously everybody wants to develop their skills. But if you have a mindset to develop those skills, that’s the first thing that you need.
And so that builds on the habits thing. So this is a constant messaging throughout our program, those types of things. And so the first is the individual meetings at, at the end of the season, and then they have about a month, a month and a half before the summer starts in Illinois before we get them on the court again.
And so we can’t really work with our guys from a skill standpoint in that period from when the season ends mid-March, usually for us. Hopefully we had a nice postseason run, which we usually do. Until the end of May. So that’s about two months there, where they’re going to kind of be on their own to develop the skill sets that, that we need them to develop.
And that’s a big part of it. We play really, really fast. And we play really, really hard. And so there’s a, there’s a, a definite skillset that we want our guys to develop. So that looks different for each player depending on what, what that is. And shooting is a separator, so obviously we always work on that.
That’s a part of everybody’s individual skill work. And then different kids have different things that they have to do. And I think you brought up a key thing is knowing your team and knowing your guys. People ask me all the time, Hey, can you know though, I’ve seen one of my videos, or they, I’ve heard a clinic, or they’ll hear this podcast, what do you think I should do with my team?
Well, I don’t really know your team right. And exactly. So it’s hard for me to comment or tell you what you should be doing. Because I don’t know your guys, I don’t know your competition, I don’t know all of those things. I can give you my opinion from what information I know, but it’s, it’s difficult for me and sometimes almost embarrassing when people ask me, Hey, what do you think you should do?
You, I’m not quite sure what you should do. I don’t know if you have a big team, a small team, guys that can handle the ball, whatever. So, and that changes year to year. Last year I had four guys that were over six, eight. This upcoming season, we have nobody over six, eight. So you know, we’re, we’re a lot smaller this upcoming season than we were last season because we had four seniors in all of them.
Well, not all of them, but four of them where six eight are better. So we just don’t have that now. So we have to adjust some things And do some things a little bit differently, but that’s what makes it fun. And so You know, I think knowing your team is a critical part to that. And you brought that up just a little bit earlier.
[00:18:01] Mike Klinzing: Improving as a team by identifying one or two things that you really feel like you want to get better at, and then conversely doing that with individual players where they understand what they need to work on. And you obviously have things that are important within your program, right. You know, The way you want to play your personnel, so you know what types of skills and what kind of things you want kids to work on.
And if you do those things and all your players buy into it, to me, going back to this topic, that’s, that’s the key to a successful summer is you improve in some areas that you’ve identified as being important. As a team and then all your individual players are working on their game to try, try to get better, and you come back in the fall and you ready for the first practice and boom, if those things have happened, you’re well on your way, and that will end topic number one.
Let’s go to topic number two, which is, and we kind of hinted at it here, and we almost could have probably taken it right, taken it right to that without even taking a break. But the idea here is how do you develop a player led culture? And we talked about accountability when it comes to some of the things that you’ve identified in terms of being a great teammate.
Building good habits. And then my question was, well, how do you make sure that guys are accountable to that? And in your answer, you talked about, well, you hope that the players take care of it first, and that you as the head coach don’t have to get involved in most of those accountability issues.
Most of those things are taken care of by your players. But as we all know, as coaches, that’s something that does not happen by accident. It does not happen. Easily, it does not happen overnight. It’s something that has to take place over a good period of time where players A, understand that they’re capable of holding their teammates accountable, and then B, they have to be.
Open to being held accountable. Yes. By their teammates. And so how do you do that? I think there’s a lot of coaches out there that would like to develop that kind of culture that maybe haven’t been able to do it as successfully as they would like to. So what’s worked for you? How have you gone about doing that and getting that into your program?
[00:20:12] Rob Brost: Yeah, I think a little bit like we talked about before, it’s an ongoing thing. And every interaction that you have, especially with your players, is important. And so they need to feel valued before they’re going to do the right things. And until they feel valued, no matter if they play or don’t play until they feel valued, you’re not going to get that extraordinary effort from them.
So everybody wants extraordinary effort, but. Until you make your players feel extraordinarily valued, they’re not going to give you that effort. So I. The mistake that a lot of coaches make is they assume that the effort should be there first, when in actuality you need to value them as humans first, and then the effort will follow that.
And it, it, it’s kind of goes contradictory to kind of the old school thinking where, hey, I say, and you do and you have to do it hard and. That’s just the way that we do it. Well, that might have worked in the eighties when I was playing high school basketball or early nineties, but that, that doesn’t really work as well anymore.
And so I think you a have to make your players feel valued. And that’s hard to do right now in the times that we’re in because if everybody doesn’t feel a certain way, they. Want to go to a different team or a different school, or they complain, or their parents complain, or all of those things. And that goes to the ongoing process.
We talk about all the time in our program that we don’t blame, we don’t complain, and we don’t need to defend what we do. And so if you’re constantly on the defense after you make a mistake that’s not being coachable, and that plays into being a good teammate. So the constant ongoing nature of being a good teammate helps with all of that.
And so it’s really hard to do and sometimes you have to lose a game or you have to take one. You know, in the chin to, to get it done. And so I think those things happen. So I think number one, it’s an ongoing process. And then number two, I think when your older kids buy into that, it becomes a lot easier.
And certainly when your best players buy into it, it makes it A ton easier. We have guys, I think we have seven or eight division one players right now, and all of them come back and talk at camp and they all talk about how in high school it’s probably the last experience where it’s pure, where the coach actually cares about you.
And all of these guys are in college, obviously now, and they talk about how, hey, this is a job. If, if I don’t score X points or if I don’t perform, I’m out. And you know, this is the last pure basketball experience you’re going to have is right here at Bolingbrook High School. So that helps with our culture as well, because those guys continually come back and it, it helps our younger kids too because they see, see these guys on tv.
Joseph won the national championship with Kansas Roderick played for the Celtics and the finals last season or two seasons ago. So we have players that are coming back that are constantly reinforcing. You know what it’s like and what it takes to be good and what it takes to be a good teammate.
So I think the keeping them accountable happens ongoing, and it happens every interaction that you have with your players, and that’s why every interaction is really important.
[00:23:55] Mike Klinzing: An object in motion tends to stay in motion, right? Correct. Where yes, once you get going and you’ve. Produce the types of players that you’ve been able to produce.
It becomes, you’re probably spending way less time at. Thinking about a player led culture than you did when you first started, because Yes, now it’s in place and it is a player led culture, hence fourth, you as the coach, are not having to spend a tremendous amount of time thinking about it because it’s in place in the everyday habits and things that you guys are doing.
[00:24:29] Rob Brost: Yes. I think you’re exactly right on that. I think it’s the ongoing nature of it and how it never ends. We talk about this all the time as a, as a team. Like it’s a do it all place at Bolingbrook High School. You have to do it in the classroom, you have to do it in the community. And then thirdly and.
People leave this out. You have to perform on the court too. You have to perform in all of those areas. And so it’s not for everybody. If, if you want to do your own thing and you know, not work on your grades or you want to misbehave or you want to be tardy to class, that all of that is fine, but you can’t do it as a part of what we’re doing.
And so you know, that’s all you know. Explained and reinforced on a constant basis. And you know, I tell our guys all the time, like, I’m the head coach at Bolingbrook High School all the time. I can’t act like a fool on Monday through Thursday and then expect Friday night. You know, when, when the game comes, then I’m going to act great and then everything will work out.
That’s not how it works. You’re the head coach all the time. And you’re a player.
[00:25:41] Mike Klinzing: I see you as an AAU parent, Rob. Come on man.
[00:25:43] Rob Brost: Yes, you have. You have. Yes. That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. So you caught, you caught me on a good day when I was well, behave. That’s funny. No, it’s funny. So and then vice versa.
Their players at Bolingbrook High School all the time. And so you know, it’s, it’s just a constant thing. And I think obviously there’s ebbs and flows to seasons and then you go into summer and then you have a little off season, then you have some time off, but you’re always the head coach.
And so that plays a part into it. And the things we do off the floor you know, I’ll have the guys over to my house here next week and we’ll just hang at the house. Everybody will have pizza. All of those things. So all of those things build on one another and we talk about in our program all the time.
If your relationship with me is based on your playing time, then you’re in the wrong place for the wrong reasons. The level of care that I have for the players is not depending at all on playing time in, in fact, my relationship with them doesn’t have anything to do with that. And so we talk about all the time, if that’s what your relationship with me is based on, then you’re in the wrong place.
For example, well, if I play five minutes, I’m going to be okay with coaching. I’m going to take whatever he says, but if I don’t play, then I’m going to have a bad attitude and do my own thing. That’s, this is not the right place for you. And so sometimes that’s hard, but that’s okay as well. I’d rather have a kid that say, coach I can’t really do this than somebody who’s trying to constantly fight against the culture that we have now.
It makes a ton of sense,
[00:27:25] Mike Klinzing: and I think what I get coming across from you is in everything that you’ve said to this point, it’s all about. Talking with your team, talking with your individual players, having a meeting. We’ve have to get this across in the classroom. We’ve have to do it in the community, we’ve have to do it on the court.
We’re, we’re coming over to Coach’s house. We’re, we’re having guys come back, we’re part of the program to share. It’s, it’s all communication. Yes. And when you have that kind of communication with players, I think then you’re talking about building a real relationship. If you’re only. Having communication on the floor, in practice or during a game, if that’s the only conversations that you’re having with players, I don’t think you’re ever going to build the kind of relationship that’s going to allow you to do the things that you’re talking about, which is they have to know that you love them.
They have to know you care about them. Whether they’re putting in 25 a game or. They never see the floor the whole season. And look, it’s easy to make the 25 point a game scorer feel loved and wanted. It’s a lot harder to make Guy 13 on your bench who doesn’t play very much and certainly probably doesn’t play as much as they think they should or as much as their mom or dad think they should.
No, but if you can build, I mean, if you can build a relationship with Player 13 where that guy knows that, You love them and care for them. Now you’re at the point where all those guys are going to reinforce the culture because of the respect that they have for the relationship, and they don’t want to let you down.
But that’s a term that I’ve heard in a lot of good programs is like, man, I love coach. I don’t want to let the guy down. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like that relationship means everything to me. And I think if you can get to that point where that’s what people are thinking. And then you’re going to get action.
That’s going to be a player led culture where they’re like, Hey man, like we’re not doing that because that’s not how we do things here and we’re not going to let coach down because that’s not the kind of program he runs. And to me, man, you get to that point and that’s really where you got something. And obviously I know that that’s what you’ve been able to build.
And again, it doesn’t, it doesn’t happen overnight. That stuff. Is not accidental. That takes time and effort and energy. And then once you get it there, you’re obviously monitoring it all the time. It’s not something that you can just stop looking at, but you’re not having to spend as much time thinking about it because the players have taken that over.
[00:30:01] Rob Brost: There’s no question that you know, I tell them. You know, we want to spend as a coaching staff, our time on figuring out how we can put you in the best positions on the floor to be successful and for us to be able to do that. We don’t want to be spending a lot of time on stuff that’s off the court Now.
We will, and I certainly will do that, but, We want to be able to concentrate on the basketball piece of this. Now, that’s kind of a, a paradox in a way because we care about them much more as humans than we do about basketball. But the basketball piece is what brings us together. Let’s be honest, if we’re not performing on the basketball floor, is going to be a new coach.
At some point. So it all plays into it. And so that’s part of the, the do it all place. You have to be able to do it all. And if you can’t, this probably isn’t right for you. And that’s fine. We’ve had players that three weeks into practice, coach, I don’t think I can do this anymore.
Okay. That’s no problem. I can really respect that. And I still have great relationships with, with some of those players that have decided to do that. And I think on our. Our, our board right before the game. The last things I go over, it says Play hard, play smart, play together, have fun.
And then the last thing I wrote that I write and every board is love, and then I circle it and. We talk about at, at the end of every single pregame, if you don’t really care about the people that are in here, this is not going to work because this is going to be hard. We’re going to lose games, we’re going to lose to teams that we shouldn’t lose to.
We’re going to lose to teams that have less than less talent than we have that’s going to happen. And so when that does happen, if you don’t have that love as the basis of, of what you’re doing, Then it’s easy to quit, it’s easy to blame, it’s easy to defend and it’s easy to complain. And those things we try to keep those out as much as possible.
[00:32:09] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, it’s funny. I mean, I think that’s a really good way of looking at it in terms of all the other things off the basketball floor. Are really the most important. Yep. But you want to get those things in place so that they take care of themselves, which isn’t really, that’s kind of a misnomer, but you get what I’m saying?
That Yes. That those things are happening. It’s almost like. Those are operate, it’s like, it’s like a computer, right? Those things are all operating in the background. You’re working on the basketball, you’re you’re, you’re typing your Word document. Yes. But there’s all this Yes, you, yeah. But there’s all these other things, processes that nobody really can see, and none of us understand what’s going on inside the computer, but, yep.
The paper ends up turning out to be an A plus paper because all that stuff was going on in the background. I think that’s sort of exactly what you’re describing, that you take care of all that off court stuff. You take care of the things in the classroom, you take care of the relationships, and now we can spend the time to, to make the basketball.
An a plus, but it’s built upon the foundation of things that people can’t see.
[00:33:11] Rob Brost: No, that’s what it’s all about. Question. You need, you need all those keys on the keyboard. You might not use all the keys equally. Right. But you need all the keys. At some point in your paper, you’re going to need every key. Yep. You need the space bar, you need the return.
You need the. Asterisk, you need all of that stuff. So your analogy with the computer is a good one. I’m going to, I’m going to use, I I’m speaking to clinic in Arkansas next week and I’m, I might use that.
[00:33:36] Mike Klinzing: Alright, we’ll fine, fine tune it. There’s probably, there’s probably a really good way we can find I don’t know if, I don’t know if word’s going on in the, there’s, there’s something there.
There’s something there. We’re going to, we’re going to, we’re going to work on that. We’re going to get that, we’re going to get that fine tuned. All right. Topic number three. Yeah. Again, we already kind of touched on this a little bit, just you talked about. The division one guys that you’ve had come through, and you’ve obviously had guys playing college basketball at all different levels throughout the course of your career, and clearly right now is sort of a unique time in college basketball and with recruiting of high school players because of the fifth year of eligibility with Covid.
We’ve got the grad transfers, we’ve got the transfer portal, we’ve got N I L, there’s just a million things. Going on that five years ago, nobody could have ever imagined would have an impact. So I just want to get your take as a high school coach, what are some things that you’ve seen that you are seeing?
Just what’s your take as you’re trying to help your players who are being recruited in the last year or two in the coming year? How are you helping them to navigate that? Just kind of give us your thoughts.
[00:34:41] Rob Brost: I think the number one thing right now is that everybody’s path is different. And especially now with so many avenues that kids can go as far as like JUCO or Prep School you know, overtime, elites all of those overseas.
All, all of those things are, are front and center. And it’s five or six years ago, not all our guys, but we would have two or three a year. Hey, Like this is kind of the timetable between your junior and senior year, you’ll probably have three to five offers, and then during the fall of your senior year at Open Gym, you’ll probably get four or five more, and then we’ll decide between the 10 to 15 offers that you have.
That timetable is now gone and how we do things and how we think of things is, is much different. For example I had a division one guard who signed with Miami of Ohio, who’s now going to be a freshman, was a senior for me last year. You know, he had I think two or three offers, and he was just as talented as some of the guards I had five or six years ago that went high, major, like immediately.
And so it, it’s really changed. And so the first thing I think you have to make players and parents understand is that everybody’s journey is a little bit different and everybody’s path is different. And so nobody’s looks the same. So You know, that’s the first thing. And then number two, I think you have to sell your kids to whatever level will listen, but you have to be honest with.
The people that you’re talking to, so that they trust your opinion so that when you have a player that they understand that you have a player, if that makes sense. And so some, some schools will call me on some of our guys, and I’ll say it I don’t know if they’re quite ready for that level and that honesty you know, makes them come back to our, to our program because they know, hey, I’m going to be honest.
And then b, I’m going to. You know, tell them the truth about what my player’s strengths and weaknesses are. And that includes academically, that includes in the community, that includes what kind of citizen they are, all of those things. And so you know, that plays into the culture piece too, because I tell our players that, I’m going to be honest with coaches that call me and I obviously, Kind of like with you, I develop a relationship with you and now we’re friends.
Well, I’ve developed those relationships with a lot of college coaches and we continue to be friends. And so you know, it’s just built over the years that I am connected to a lot of, lot of different college coaches. So that helps. But it also, Sometimes gives our guys a little expectation that you know, Hey, well Coach will find me a place.
Well, it’s not me that finds you the place, it’s your ability. Right? That finds the place. And so the, the most important thing here is that you can play everything else is important. You know, the academics are important. How you act off the court’s important, how your parents act are important, your social media.
But the most important thing that. They’re looking at is, can you play? And that’s the first thing they’re looking at. I don’t care what everybody says and all of the other things are important for sure but can you play? And if you can’t, then you just have to keep working because you’re going to get an opportunity and the game gives you opportunities and each game that you play in gives you opportunities.
But you know, you, you have to understand that the time is, is really changed with all the stuff that you mentioned.
[00:38:28] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. So that goes to the truth flowing both directions, right? So you have to be honest with a college coach about your player’s ability because if you sell that college coach a bill of goods about a guy, and that guy gets there and isn’t who and what you said he was, now suddenly the next time that guy comes and looks at one of your players, not going to trust you.
But at the same time, You have to be able to tell the truth to the player, and probably even more important than the player is their family, right? Yes. Because you have moms and dads. You know, why isn’t coach. Get me that offer. Why isn’t coach getting Junior this opportunity to play here and there And why is coach telling him that he’s have to work on his left hand or that he can’t he can’t guard the perimeter, whatever, whatever it is.
And so talk a little bit about the, the truth going that direction and maybe conversations that you’ve had with players or families just to help them to understand. How the process works from your perspective, if that makes sense.
[00:39:35] Rob Brost: I think my good, my good bud Greg White told me way back when we were first getting to know each other, that the truth allows everybody to work faster.
If I can trust what you’re saying to me, Mike, then I can just go about my business knowing that it’s the truth, right? And I don’t have to double check and I don’t have to go back and make sure. And so the truth makes everybody work faster. And it makes everybody work better. And so when you can develop that with next level coaches it just makes everything work faster and you don’t have to deal with all the minutiae of.
Social media and oh, well he did this well, so-and-so said he did this, and so-and-so said he was good at this, and all of those things. So it’s not a sell job by any means. It’s more of being honest with people and developing the rapport, just like you do with the player. You do that with, with the coaches as well.
So we’ve had to have some tough conversations in particular since Covid because. Know, schools are waiting on transfers, especially mid-majors and high major schools are waiting on transfers instead of taking high school kids. And so, you know a high school kid is probably the last one to be recruited at this point, you know.
You know, I’ll put it in terms of my players. You know, if you have Tyler Cochran and you know, who led Northern Illinois and scoring, rebounding, and assists as a sophomore at Northern Illinois and he’s transferring, and then you have Darius Burford who played for me, who’s an allstater. Who would you rather have?
Well, of course you’d rather have Tyler because he’s already done it at that level. Absolutely. And so it’s not that Darius isn’t good he, and ended up at the same level that Tyler was at, even at a higher level. But it took him a school first too. He had to go to Elon first and then to Illinois State.
So you know, It’s just a different time, and you have to be able to have those conversations with not only your players, but their parents as well. And that’s, that’s a tough, tough thing may I think, I think the players really understand the level they’re at, maybe even more so than the parents, to be honest with you.
Because they’re. And you’re with them every day and they’re there every day. Right. And they know what happens every day and they know what type of player they’re, and so that’s why it’s so important to develop the habits that we talk about way at the beginning of the, of the, of the conversation.
So you know, as long as you develop those and then you can, you can be honest with the player first. And then with the parents and you know, when we, when I talk to players, they can say anything they want to me, but they can also need to be ready for me to say anything to them. And so when we have a one-on-one meeting, that’s when we talk about all of this stuff.
You know, we don’t bring this stuff up like in the middle of practice or in the middle of a drill or anything like that. So when we’re talking. Honesty is the most important thing for our conversation so that I can coach them better and they can play harder for me because they know we’re all on the same page.
So I think all of this stuff kind of winds together, as funny as that sounds. So all three of these are different topics, but they all kind of play a part to making the whole thing go, and so to get back to the recruiting thing specifically, it’s, it’s really hard. Everybody has a different path, and you have to be willing to just be patient and take what comes to you.
And now instead of waiting on offers, you might want to pounce on the first or second offer that you have, rather than waiting for You know, double digit offers like we used to do right? Five, six years ago with kids because we knew they were all coming and you know how college coaches are, once one offer comes, a lot of times three or four or five are going to come.
Correct? Yep. So that’s one of my pet peeves with college coaches. Just trust your eyes, guys, like what you see. And what I tell you, that’s, that’s going to be what you’re going to get. Don’t ask me how many offers, who else is recruiting them? Well, why wouldn’t they offer them, you know? Right, exactly. Those are all questions that I get sometimes that kind of I get perturbed about, but that’s another, that’s another conversation.
[00:44:02] Mike Klinzing: Put that in the topic thread.
[00:44:04] Rob Brost: Yes. The pet peeves of coaching. But anyways so I think it’s just a different time and you have to be open to anything. We sent two kids to junior college this past season. Obviously they’re going to school for free, but five, six years ago those guys would’ve been low, major or mid-major players.
But they just aren’t quite ready at this point. And they aren’t quite ready because of their recruitment. You know, And people say, well, I think I’m a division one player. Well, if you don’t have Division one offers, you’re not a division one player at this point. Right. That’s just the way that it’s, yeah.
And I don’t decide if you’re a Division one player, because I’m not a Division one coach. And so I can tell people that I think you are, or I think you have a little work to do. But it’s, it’s not my decision, it’s the division one coach’s decision. Right.
[00:44:54] Mike Klinzing: Ultimately it’s the level that is recruiting you is Yes.
The level you are, at least at this moment. Yes. And that’s not to say the portal obviously makes it far, far easier. If you’re at the wrong level or you grow into a level above, makes it much easier for you to be able to make that jump. But as a pure high school player, it’s made the ability to get a scholarship coming outta high school.
Far, far. Yes. More challenging than it has ever been in the past. And I think that’s kind of what we’re getting at is, is trying to figure out, okay, how do we make this, how can, how can we help continue to help high school players? And I think your answer is a good one, is you tell them the truth. You tell the college coaches the truth, you tell their families the truth.
And in the course of doing that, Things are going to work the way that they’re supposed to and you’re going to find the right fit in the right place. And if you end up outgrowing that, then there’s another opportunity to be able to, there’s no question, to grow And move forward.
[00:45:52] Rob Brost: So for the first time in my career this year, we sent a kid to division two.
And I literally said to the kid, this is the first time that these things came outta my mouth, before the kid even got there. Hey. You can go there for a year or two and dominate and show everybody you are a Division one player and then you, you can become one. Right? Yeah. And you know, five years ago, I would’ve never sent a kid to division two and before I, with the, the idea.
But I some of these division two coaches that I know, that’s the mindset they’re taking too, right? They want the kid to come and they know he might leave after a year or two, but they, they want the kid. So, you know. Absolutely. It’s just a different time all the way around. It’s a one and done division two, right?
Yes, it’s exactly right. It’s, it’s, it’s almost, it’s everybody’s juco. Everybody’s juco. That’s what I say. It’s really crazy.
[00:46:41] Mike Klinzing: I mean, from that standpoint, I mean, even you look at just the grad transfers and guys that are coming in and just. The way you can totally remake your program with, here’s a guy who played four years of college basketball and now we’re going to bring this guy in and I don’t care what level you’re at.
I mean, you’re talking about you bring in a division 1, 2, 3 you bring in two or three guys like that and you can change. Now again, you’re not necessarily changing your program, but the way you think of a program is almost different now. It’s almost again, yes. You get back to like the one and done, it’s a one year.
What’s our team this year? That’s exactly, and then next year we have to come back and coach a totally different team. So it’s, it’s clearly, it’s clearly a lot different than it used to be, and we’re all going to continue to work to try to figure it out and navigate it. And who knows where we’ll be five years from now.
[00:47:34] Rob Brost: Again, the landscape’s going to look completely different, so you have to, you have to adapt to that. As with anything, Absolutely.
[00:47:39] Mike Klinzing: All right, so how was our three topics? Triple, double? Our original goal, we said 30 to 45 minutes. So we’re at 48, so we didn’t do too bad, Rob. Perfect. We kind of hung it out.
So anyway, this was the very first edition of the triple double. The plan is that we’re going to be back once a month. Rob and I, jumping on to talk about some current events, topics that have crossed our minds since the last time we talked, things that might be in the news, things that have happened to us individually in our own basketball experiences, and we’ll just keep coming on month after month and cranking out a triple double.
[00:48:15] Rob Brost: So I, that’s where we’re Love Mike. Thanks. Thanks again for having me and absolutely no, Jason. No problem. But we’re going to welcome him back.
[00:48:24] Mike Klinzing: He should be back for the next triple double.
[00:48:25] Rob Brost: We want him to be a part of this triple double here moving forward. So tell him that, that we say hello and it’s always great to be on with you.
[00:48:33] Mike Klinzing: It’ll have to be maybe a triple, triple, I don’t know. We’ll have to figure it out. That’s exactly, exactly right. That’s good. All right, so triple double signing off. Thanks to everyone for listening. We appreciate it and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.