Website – https://www.legendsofbasketball.com/
Scott Rochelle was named President and CEO of the National Basketball Retired Players Association in March 2018, after serving one year as an Interim. He previously held the position of Senior Vice President of Partnership Development / General Counsel, and Vice President of Membership, Programming and Chapter Development.
In his role as President and CEO, Rochelle oversees the Retired Players Association’s day-to-day operations, including securing new cutting-edge partnerships for former players to thrive and prosper. In addition, he continues to strengthen and foster the association’s local chapters which has expanded to 12 cities during his tenure as President and CEO.
Scott works closely with the NBA executive team to guide revenue-generating and philanthropic programs that involve the greatest names in the NBA. He has also been instrumental in the development of new content platforms aimed at targeting younger, newly retired players. These initiatives include the creation of a monthly podcast, an aggressive social media strategy and the creation of a new publication titled, Legends Magazine, the official publication of former NBA and WNBA players.
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Get ready to listen and learn as we talk with Scott Rochelle, President and CEO of The National Basketball Retired Players Association.
What We Discuss with Scott Rochelle
- The story behind the famous Alonzo Mourning GIF
- The purpose and mission of the NBRPA
- How his work as an attorney led to him working for the NBRPA
- Growing up a Bulls fan in Chicago
- Building a community amongst the retired players through word of mouth
- Offering career advice, education, and helping players understand investments
- Building a mobile app for use by members of the NBRPA
- Why players are more aware of making smart decisions off the court
- Balancing the needs of older and younger players
- The NBRPA’s two big events – All-Star Weekend and the Summer Conference during Summer League
- “Life will not end when basketball ends. Life will change. You’ll change, you’ll change directions, but there is so much more there for you. And so that’s really the goal of our association.”
- The All-Access Podcast and how it allows former players to share their stories and thoughts on current issues inside and outside of the game
- The On-Deck Podcast that shares what’s next for the NBRPA
- NFT’s and the memorabilia market
- Some of the success stories from former WNBA players
- Building towards players getting on the ownership track and eventually owning NBA teams
- “I think we’re going to normalize players being more than just athletes. We’re going to normalize professional athletes being so many more things outside of what we’re accustomed to.”
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THANKS, SCOTT ROCHELLE
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TRANSCRIPT FOR – SCOTT ROCHELLE – PRESIDENT & CEO OF THE NATIONAL BASKETBALL RETIRED PLAYERS’ ASSOCIATION – EPISODE 450
[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here with my co-host Jason Sunkle. And tonight we are pleased to welcome to the podcast. Scott Rochelle, the president and CEO of the National Basketball Retired Players Association, Scott, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.
Scott Rochelle: [00:00:16] Oh, thank you so much. Glad, glad to be here.
Mike Klinzing: [00:00:20] Okay. We are excited to have you on. Want to learn a little bit more about you and also all the great work that you’re doing with some of the legends of the game that you’ve had an opportunity to work with through your role in the players association. So let’s go ahead and give us a quick overview on what the National Basketball Retired Players Association is all about.
And then we’ll kind of circle back and learn a little bit more about your backstory and to dive into some details about the players association.
Scott Rochelle: [00:00:46] Yeah. Sounds good. Yeah. You know, the National Basketball, Retired Players Association, or NBRPA or NBA alumni, we go by a lot of names, we’re the official alumni association for the NBA, the [00:01:00] WNBA, whereas anyone who’s played the game that aren’t an active roster is eligible to be a member of our association with a home, for all transition services, community development, internal community building with the players.
You know, when you see a player leave the game, what you do not see is the loss that they suffer when it comes to the identity, the comradery, the familiarity with a professional athlete lifestyle. And so as an association, we really build a community around the player so that they remain in the game, remain a part of what’s been so important to them in their lives, and then give them opportunities to give back, opportunities to develop themselves, to learn more, to start a second career in anything in the transition.
We’re funded by the NBA to do that.
Mike Klinzing: [00:01:51] All right. So let’s go back in time with you and share a little bit of a, your background, your career background, and how you sort of made your way here to the current [00:02:00] position that you have noe.
Scott Rochelle: [00:02:00] Great. So I’m an attorney by trade. I got involved with the NBRPA as a an attorney at a midsize firm in Chicago.
And maybe I’ll start at this point here because they did actually, I could go back a little further, but I was practicing law looking to get into sports and picked up the association as a client. And at the time the association was relatively well-known in some circles, but hadn’t really broken into the mainstream of basketball.
And so I got a chance to know a little bit more about the association, was doing a lot of the legal work for the board of directors, working closely with the CEO. And my love of basketball, my interest in getting involved in the game and really diving in, led me to do a lot more legal work that I probably should have been doing.
My firm was unhappy with me because I was focusing on one client and then a couple years later, I got opportunity to join the company. The CEO sat down with [00:03:00] me and said, Hey, I have an opening. I need you to do player programming with me. I said, look, I’m an attorney. I don’t do player programming.
He goes, yeah, but you’ve been an agent. You’ve done agency work for players, you can do it. He said, he says, I know you can do it. He said you also retain the general counsel title. So you’ll be able to do that as well. And that was the start of it. And then four years later the CEO transitioned out and I threw my hat in the ring for the job.
And I think the continuity, the familiarity with the partners and the players, and really I try to bring a lot of energy to the role. Cause I said, look I’m about 25 years younger than the guy who I’m coming behind, I can bring something to the table that’s going to resonate with the players who are walking away from the game right now.
I’m the same age as them. I think I know a little bit more about what they’re looking for in life with their experiences. Although I didn’t play professional basketball, right. I knew I could get it in the mind of a 35 to 40 year old and [00:04:00] really help to develop the association in a way that would be something that they would want to join.
And so on the strength of that, I got the job as CEO in 2017 and then trotted along ever since.
Mike Klinzing: [00:04:11] So what’s your basketball background in terms of kind of coming in contact with it, through your position as an attorney, did you grow up with the game?
Scott Rochelle: [00:04:18] Oh man. I grew up with the game looking at NCAA championship photos from my dad’s playing days as a kid. And so that’s my first recollection of the game, seeing the black and white photos and seeing him from high school to college. And then he was on a champion NCAA championship team. And so I was introduced to the game very early on, not just through him, but I’m a tall guy.
I’m like six-seven on a good day. And so you’re growing fast. The game comes to you and everyone wants you to play, expects you to play. And I think that for me, I got tall and I got thrown into the game before I [00:05:00] fell in love with the game, but eventually it all kinda came together and I really enjoyed all aspects of it.
And as I went through school, I kept it out on the business side because I said, look, I’m not going to be a professional basketball player. I’ll be lucky to play a little college ball if I can. But most importantly, I want to work in sports. If I have to work to earn a living, if I have to sit behind the desk, I want it to be something I’m really passionate about.
And so the game has always been there. It’s always been something important to me and my family, because again, my father played, my father coached, we were in Chicago, so crazy Bulls fans. And so you just develop that love for it and there’s always something there that keeps you close to the game. And when the opportunity came out for me to bring my career over to basketball, I jumped at the opportunity. And so it’s been a great love story. I pinched myself many too many times saying man, I can’t believe they paid me to do this. I actually [00:06:00] get to work with some of the greatest basketball players of all time.
And you know, I get on your worst day, you’re still having a good time. So yeah, it’s been a good ride. I’m truly enjoying it.
Mike Klinzing: [00:06:11] So when you first get the job, what are one or two were two of the things that you said right out of the gate that, Hey, this is what we need to do differently. Or these, this is an approach that we need to take that I think can make an impact and help us to engage more players.
Cause I’m guessing that one of the roles and one of the things that you guys are trying to do and correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like one of the things that you would want to do is try to engage as many retired players as you possibly can, to get them involved and to be able to help them and get them connected to other players who are in similar situations to what they are.
So just maybe go back to that first, let’s say month or two on the job, and you’re starting to look at, Hey, what do we want to do? What do you remember from that time in terms of things you felt were important when you first took the job?
Scott Rochelle: [00:06:53] Man, you know what? I’ll tell you that that conversation happened internally in my head well, before then, [00:07:00] I had been working in programming with the players association. I had basically headed up programming membership, a chapter program across 12 cities. I had done some partnerships. I had done a legal work. I had done so many things in the company. And one thing was constant.
We were getting older, very fast. And the older we got the harder it was for us to carry out very basic functions as an association, whether it be to attract great sponsors, to be able to go to a partner and say, Hey, we’re going to come to you. And we’re going to do a partnership is going to be mutually beneficial.
The problem was we had gotten so comfortable in what we had been doing for all these years that trying to move people out of that mindset was going to be difficult. And so there was a large segment of our population that was very happy with everything that was happening there, but they just didn’t know that there needed to be [00:08:00] more, there was more out there for us.
There was more that we could do. So my first task was how do I make this association an association that’s attractive to members, to former players who were in their late twenties, early thirties? What is it that the players want to do? And before then we were taking the approach of well players want programs and they want to be talked to about their finances.
And we did that and it just didn’t hit the mark. Every company wanted to come in and talk about financial literacy and it got to a point where you didn’t want to hear that anymore. So, okay. So what’s next? What else do they want? Do they want jobs? Well, 60 year old guys aren’t looking for jobs.
What is it that we can provide that a 25 year old and a 95 year old are going to look at and say, this association is for me. And we came up with the answer and the answer was community. The one [00:09:00] constant that all the guys and ladies who’ve played the game is they had been part of a team. They’ve been part of a player community.
It has been a major part of their life. And if we can keep that one aspect. If we can make sure that every player knows where to come to, to be a part of the basketball world, to be a part of the team, to be a part of a locked room. At that point, we have now achieved the goal of creating the association for all players.
And so struggling through a lot of the things we were struggling through and 2014, 2015, 2016, changed once we were able to adopt that type of mindset where look, we don’t need to have as strict rules about who can be a member who can’t be a member. Look, if you played the game, you’re a member.
Who am I to tell you, there’s someone who’s played in the NBA that you’re not a member because you haven’t paid us our dues. No, we’ll create a structure for you all to come in and be a part of this [00:10:00] association. We’ll tier the system so that those who’ve paid a certain amount of dues have access to certain things.
But first and foremost, let’s get everybody in here. Let’s make sure everyone knows this is home. And then we can do so many more things. And so that we’re right now three or four years into that process. And it really has been working, but that was the first thing that had to happen.
We had to make this thing look good to anybody who’s played the game.
Mike Klinzing: [00:10:25] So what does the outreach look like there when you’re trying to get in touch with former players and make them aware and educate them about what you guys are trying to do, and some of the programs that you have available to them, how do you go about that?
What does that process look like on your end of it?
Scott Rochelle: [00:10:42] So we used to reach out to players and try to say, Hey you should be a part of the association that method worked. What works so much better is for players to have the conversation with other players. And so we took on, we took on [00:11:00] the strategy of taking a certain segment of players, educating them, doing right by them, showing them the ropes, showing them how the association helps them and then letting the word of mouth really do the work. We took our board of directors and we really built out a tremendous new, fresh group of players that could represent us at so many different levels.
And so instead of us saying, Hey, you should be a part of the association. We’re getting phone calls saying, Hey, I need to be a part of this. Hey, I saw Caron Butler wearing a shirt. I heard about the work he’s doing in the entrepreneurial space. If I want to learn more about that and other things other players are doing, I need to be a part of this association.
So it really has been more organic and less of the, Hey, I’m selling you on this association. No, I’m going to show you exactly what it is. And I want you to come on in and take advantage of the things that you see.
Mike Klinzing: [00:11:56] So once you have some of these players in the fold, [00:12:00] What were some of the programs that you felt like you could offer to them beyond financial literacy?
What were one of the first two initiatives that you, that you came up with when you were putting together your plan of what you want to do to keep these former players engaged?
Scott Rochelle: [00:12:16] Well, it was two-fold because we had just started signing for WNBA players up into the association. It was about their 18th or 19th year in existence.
And it was, it was probably our 20, 22nd, 23rd years. So we said, you know what? This needs to happen. We need to have the women involved. And so the very first thing they said they needed was career advancement. They needed help getting their secondary careers go in any training and certificate programs.
So we really picked it up and ran with it. That was super important for us to do. The other thing for the on the men’s side was less career development, but more of an interest [00:13:00] inventory because the men were retiring with different resources. They had millions of dollars. They had a lot of different things going for them.
They didn’t need a job per se. They needed to understand what they could do with their time, what their interests were, what they wanted to invest in, how they wanted to operate in this next stage of their life. So we brought in experts, we’re a small staff, and we don’t do this all in house.
We have strategic partnerships that help us. So we went to NASA and NASA formed a partnership with us, for players to understand how to utilize massive technology in their entrepreneurship and our entrepreneurship ventures. We had different programs and franchising, and that’s always been there, but we took it a step further and work with some venture capitalists.
Talk about what does it look like to really invest your money and to be smart about it so that these startups don’t come to athletes and ask for money because they’re not a bank. And then our regularly, like a bank and athletes may [00:14:00] be more open to giving their money and giving a ten-year timeline, saying, well, I’ve invested in tech and not understanding the ways in which you have your checkpoints, your checks and balances and all the things that are there.
So we really dove into those two different spaces. And then we also had an educational push. There were players who were looking at coaching jobs and wanted to get into coaching, but were still six to 12 credits, shy of a degree. We went and we found partnerships that help those players finish their degrees online because you’re not going to go back to a campus.
You know, that’s not realistic, but what is realistic is having players go in, use their life experiences and their life skills as some of the online universities to really finish out their education, to put something, to get a piece of paper that uses the validation, but also gives them some additional skills to go into the workplace with.
Mike Klinzing: [00:14:55] So NASA, give me an example of a way that [00:15:00] you guys and NASA and a former player worked together in some capacity, maybe a project or a business or a skill or something. Just give us an example of a partnership between the NBRPA and NASA.
Scott Rochelle: [00:15:13] So we haven’t gotten into the actual details of those partnerships.
Well, what happened was NASA when NASA changed their platform and their operations, they had tons of technology that they wanted to share with the world or entrepreneurs. And so we do a bootcamp series. Our players are able to go to Goddard space center. They’re able to stay and learn about all the different things that are happening, and hopefully, hopefully walk away with an opportunity to utilize some of that.
Now, is it always a perfect fit? No, but sometimes these kinds of opportunities just really light a fire under a player. They give them the opportunity to see what’s out there, help them create, continue to create and motivate them to see an idea through. [00:16:00] And so that type of exposure was important for many of the players because they knew there was a world out there outside of basketball.
But when you play professional sports, it’s so difficult to really explore things while you’re playing. It’s difficult to understand what else is out there because your whole life, all of your attention is on your sport. So now we start opening up different opportunities and exposure so that they can learn those things and back it up with some career educational resources to help them have the tools to go out and make things happen.
Mike Klinzing: [00:16:31] And I’m assuming that one of the challenges for both current players in the league, and I’m sure it extends to players who are retired, is that because of. Their name and because of the fact that they’re famous and everybody knows who they are, they get approached a lot more than your average person who is looking for somebody going, Hey, I get this NBA guy.
That’s retired that I met at the grocery store. I bumped into him here and now I’m going to start pitching them all these businesses. So I’m guessing that one of your roles [00:17:00] is as you’re going through. And you’re talking about this entrepreneurship piece that you are vetting out the people, the groups, the app, the companies, the individuals that are working through your association and getting access to the players.
You’re able to sort of provide a, a layer in between the player and the potential investment. That vets it for them so that when they start to loop to get involved in it, it’s already sort of been, I don’t know if pre-approved is the right word, but at least you’re able to guide the player and making a good decision.
Is that accurate in terms of what you’re trying to do?
Scott Rochelle: [00:17:34] Absolutely. Absolutely. And so when, when a company is involved with us, the players assume that they’d been vetted, there’s a stamp of approval if they’re in partnership with the association. So we have to be very careful about how we vet them and how we present certain things.
We know we don’t make investment advice. We don’t actually send players in the direction of any one in particular saying, Hey, you should [00:18:00] put your money here. You should invest in these things. What we do is we provide the educational pieces and we even have our financial services partners say, look, you can come in and tell them how great you are at investing their money.
Or you could come in and tell them about how they should be thinking. About the marketplace. And then if the player’s impressed with you, you all can strike up a conversation and start a relationship. But in nowhere, we’re going to have you all come in and sell our members on anything you’re going to educate.
And if that education leads to you all do a business together more power to you. But our first step in this, our role is education.
Mike Klinzing: [00:18:39] Do you find that by providing that educational piece and as your membership has grown, do you find that former players are finding one another to maybe partner up in some instances to go together into a venture, maybe an investment.
Do you think that that community [00:19:00] piece that you mentioned off the top. Has that something that’s been coming to fruition where players are starting to connect, not only with some of your corporate partners, but they’ve started to connect with one another, which I would imagine again, is when you’re dealing with somebody who’s going through something similar to what you’re going through.
I would think that there’s power in that as well.
Scott Rochelle: [00:19:19] Yeah. You know that’s the overall goal what does a community do? Community supports, a community engages, a community provides resources. So those are all the things you want to do. And so right now, we’re almost at the point of launch for a mobile app that we’re launching.
And part of this mobile app has direct messaging amongst players, chat rooms, all the different ways in which players can connect with each other because we don’t, we don’t post it actual directory. Because as soon as you put a director together, it’s really hard to keep the integrity, keep it out of the hands of the right.
Everybody’s going to want to get their hands on that thing. Right? [00:20:00] Exactly. So for years and years we’ve been fighting this problem, but how do we connect players, keep them connected? How do we promote their businesses? And we’ve, we’ve had a directory of sorts, but this mobile app is amazing because not only will play with me, we’ll go in and populate the app with their own business information, their personal information.
They can communicate, go directly to them. We don’t give player information out to the public, but if a player calls us, Hey, I want to get in touch with him. Old teammates. We’ll facilitate that through the app may go straight to the app, search that guy. They can find this information.
And so we’re super excited about that because that’s the next frontier for us. If we’re building a community, the number one part of community is communication internally. And so we’re looking forward to players, getting together and building franchises together. Or if one player is in the ownership space and professional basketball.
We want other guys who would reach out and say, Hey I’m thinking of doing [00:21:00] ownership. Can we, can we talk a little bit, can you give me some of the information that you use to make a smart decision? And I’m not just talking about NBA. We have players who own teams overseas. We have Shawn Marion owns a team over in Australia.
And so as more players come out with more resources, more savvy you know, we have to continue to move in a way that puts us in a position to be a resource for them. We have so many players across so many different demographics that it does become difficult, but I think that the community piece in building this one aspect is going to be super valuable for everyone who’s involved.
Mike Klinzing: [00:21:40] Yeah, I can totally see where the app and the ability to connect through that technology is going to make things a lot easier for players to connect with one another. As you look at players that are coming in, and they’re obviously sharing with you with some of the things that they’re looking for, maybe they’re sharing challenges that they have, maybe they’re sharing opportunities [00:22:00] that they have.
What do you find? And maybe this is too general of a question, but what do you find are some of the top challenges that players are coming to you with when they join and become a member of the association? What do, what issues do they bring to you that you’re looking for as in some of the ones that we’ve already talked about in terms of education and financial advice and transition, or is there something else maybe that’s kind of a little off the radar that you hear players talking about?
Scott Rochelle: [00:22:26] I’ll tell you what w what we’re hearing mostly now is, Hey, how do I keep my name in the conversations for revenue opportunities and business ventures? And so what, what the players know for sure is this. If they continue to keep their name out there, the opportunities won’t be the same as they were when they were playing.
But those names that continue to circulate in the right circles will be the ones that are called when opportunities come up. And so now there’s a game of how do I keep myself out here? Who do I need to call? And so their play as a [00:23:00] touch base with me on sometimes on a weekly basis, sometimes once or twice a month, our agents reach out and it’s, it helps them because it keeps them front of mind.
And so many, many of the things we’d like to do now is we do outreach to players saying, Hey, we’re talking to a partner in the a and the CBD space. So here here’s a survey, fill this out, give us your information. And we can have a community. We can have communication back and forth as to what you’re interested in, so we can keep you off front of mind.
But most of the players now we talked to are looking, they’re just looking to stay involved, whether it be BD, media, podcasting, charitable work, And you know, that the times have changed. When I first got involved around 2011, it was I need to find a way to make money. And now it’s more, I just want to continue to be in this space and operate in the basketball world or the business world, something that keeps me active.
Mike Klinzing: [00:23:54] Do you think players and I guessing just from your answer that you just shared, do you think players [00:24:00] today are, are better educated and better prepared both when they’re in their active playing career and also when they retire, if you think back to let’s say 20 years ago, we’ve all heard the horror stories of guys that were in the league that had they got involved with some people, maybe who didn’t, weren’t honest with them, steered them into some bad investments.
Guys lost a lot of money. And it seems like as a result of that players and player agents and the people around them have helped to facilitate. Then having a better understanding of sort of what goes on beyond just what goes on the basketball court that even while they’re playing, they’re already sort of preparing, at least a lot of guys are.
And you hear about that and you read about it in the in the news about players that are already kind of doing some of the things that you’ve been describing. So do you think players overall as a general rule are more prepared for sort of those aspects or at [00:25:00] least they know what they want or what they should be getting when they finish playing?
If that makes send…
Scott Rochelle: [00:25:04]No, I absolutely believe that. And you mentioned the 20 years ago lessons learned, right. We made a big deal about those failures and the shortcomings of players who dabbled in business and who made some missteps and it was embarrassing to them and We, we kind of we kind of crunched through it in this industry.
Cause we hate those narratives, but I’ll tell you what it worked when you really put a spotlight on some of those failures and why they happen. You know, the, the excessive spending the failure to save properly, the bad investments and you know, those things, the younger generation listen, they really heard what was being said there.
And so you don’t have those same stories there’s, some people will tell you we’re making so much money now, cancel it all. You know, [00:26:00] there may be some truth to that thought, but I will tell you the way the players are approaching their wealth, their business, their branding now is so impressive to me, to move it.
Even beyond that into, even into Not just political, but with social justice and issues that players care about players are in control. They are owning every aspect of their career now. And you didn’t see that 20 years ago, you saw players who were just happy to be there and there the money was coming in and they were doing great things on the court.
And then when they got off the court, sometimes it was a party or it was whatever they wanted to do. Now you see players putting as much effort into what they’re doing off the court, whether it be television production, whether it be social justice drives, whether it be leading anything that’s [00:27:00] within their passion project that that has changed everything.
So I know we want to talk about the money and people losing money and people doing this, but we have to talk about players now, just doing so much more. Then play in the game. They’re putting real sweat equity into businesses. You know, guys that women are taking the off season, they’re going to school, they’re going to award.
They’re taking certificate programs, they’re doing all that they can to make sure that when they’re done with the game, they’re in a good, solid position. I don’t think that happens without us really making a big deal about the failures from the past. Nobody wants to be seen as the person who threw it all away.
Nobody wants to end up on the next ESPN bro. And I think that parents have had some influence on a lot of players. We have guys like Michael Carter Williams whose parents told them, Hey, you know what? You live off your shoe money and your per diem, [00:28:00] your game checks go into an account. You think about it.
It makes a whole lot of sense. NBA players are gazillionaires. Would they get a hundred dollars per diems for game nights? You know your shoe deal may pay you a quarter million dollars. What else do you need to live off of during the season? Stack that money away, find smart things to do with it.
And that’s been normalized to a certain extent. Obviously the TV deals have made the salary cap go through the roof. So there is a lot of money being paid out, but I just believe that as a whole players are approaching their careers differently and in a way that makes the overspending and the waste of money, a non-factor.
Mike Klinzing: [00:28:44] I guess I have two things to piggyback off of what you just said.
And I think one of the things that causes what we were just talking about in terms of players being more educated and being more aware of building their brand on and off the floor and making smarter [00:29:00] decisions financially, I think because. It’s much easier to see what other people are doing, whether it’s through social media and just the amount of traditional media coverage and the fact that players can have their own voice through their own social media accounts, which again, let’s go back 10 or 15 years where that didn’t exist.
And now players just are more aware I think of what some of those opportunities are that are out there. And they’re also aware of that. If you do things that shoot those opportunities in the foot that are going to not allow you to have some of those things. I think that just that awareness and the fact that we’re also interconnected and that the players have that direct voice, both to their fans and to each other.
And then sort of the interconnectedness of the league where get go back 20 or 30 years ago where it was the Celtics and it was the Lakers. And now a lot of the players across the league, [00:30:00] Rightly or wrongly like it or not as a fan they’re friends because they’ve grown up together, whether it’s AAU basketball or whatever.
So those guys are having, I’m guessing there’s a lot more conversations amongst players within teams than there was 20 or 30 years ago. And as you said, there’s a lot more money in the game today, which allows and affords players to have more opportunity, to be able to think about investing in businesses, doing some of those things either while they’re playing, or certainly once they’re retired, but we all know there’s another segment of the population of players that grew up in an era where the money wasn’t as big as it is now.
So what do you guys do in terms of engaging players, who let’s say they’ve been retired already for 20 or 30 years? How do you get those guys into the fold of what are some of the services that you’re providing for them or that they’re looking for? So I was just taking a look at like Jim Jones. Who’s the head of your chapter here in Cleveland?
Jim Jones obviously played in an era before. All of this big money was [00:31:00] available. And before all the things that we’ve just talked about were commonplace. So what a player like Jim Chones, what’s the role that you guys play for a player from his era?
Scott Rochelle: [00:31:10] Well, and I’ll say this, that era is very well represented within our membership.
You know, I gotta take my hat off to my predecessors you know, Mel Davis, Charles Smith those guys who were former players, they really did galvanize the former players who were in there in their age range and who they played with. Those guys joined in force. And so we represent the vast majority of players in that age range.
Now, do they want the programs and services that some other people want? No, really the most important thing we can do for Jim Chones, who’s amazing. Right. And you know, he’s a Cleveland chapter president, the most best thing we can do for them is to give them the opportunity to continue to be a part of the basketball family.
[00:32:00] You know, Jim Chones is the Cleveland chapter president, and we had a call last night. We talked about what we can do. He had so many different, great ideas for the Cleveland community and how those players get involved and give back to the community. All those guys want to do is make sure that they’re giving back to their own communities and also able to connect with the players who they’ve made this game with.
So we ask them all the time, Hey, what do you guys want? You guys wants to do a seminar and this and that. And they told me, they said, no, Scott, we want you to bring our events.
Mike Klinzing: [00:32:35] They just want to be able to hang out together. Right?
Scott Rochelle: [00:32:37] Yes. And once we figured that out, once we figured out that all we do is create the spaces for them to have their time together, to tell their stories, to be amongst each other.
That was the strongest thing we can do for them. And then they tell us to get out of the room. Hi, I’m out but yeah. So when I say it’s difficult to [00:33:00] find something across all of the elements of our membership it really isn’t, as long as you focus on the community piece, and I’ll tell you the most beautiful thing you can see is a young guy, recognizing the older guys in the room and stopping, and not just giving them the respect they’re due, but wanting to learn from them, asking them questions, the interacting with them.
We come together twice a year for major events. We have all-star weekend. We do a summer conference. It was typically around summer league. And I’ll tell you, you get a room with 150 former players, and you see the young guys learning from the old guys and having fun and telling stories, it’s magical.
And at that very moment, we know that we’ve done what we’re supposed to do. There probably isn’t a seminar we can put on that’d be more important for the player community and the individual players who’ve come out. Then that moment right there, where they get to be a part of a locker room and share in the [00:34:00] comradery, the stories, the fellowship, the support, and the love of the fraternity of being a former NBA player.
Mike Klinzing: [00:34:08] Is that the psychology of that transition?
So yeah, they’re being able to talk to players of different eras, but I would guess that one of the most difficult things, and you mentioned it a couple times now, is that comradery with being part of a team and being sort of in a structured environment as a player. And then all of a sudden that’s gone, you’re retired and now suddenly you have endless time.
And you’re used to being okay. I got to be at shoot around at 10. I gotta get my training in. I gotta be at the training table at noon, and then I’ve gotta be get my pre-game nap in. And then I gotta be in the arena at five. And so you have all these things that have always been a part of your life since the time.
Again, let’s say a player as a 10 year career. And so they retire at age 32. So basically for the last 25 odd years of their life, [00:35:00] they’ve had this structure. So how important is that transition? Not necessarily even financially or career wise, but just psychologically helping them to get through that transition from having such a set schedule in such a regimented routine of what they do in order to prepare themselves to be at their best too.
Then they go to a life where suddenly it’s completely wide open and they’re in charge of what they do and when they do it. So how do you guys help them with that piece of the transition?
Scott Rochelle: [00:35:30] So the most difficult thing for the transition for the vast majority of former players is that there isn’t a press conference and a goodbye message.
Majority of players who are done with the NBA are in a transition, a gray area where they’re looking for a team, they’re looking to get signed, right? They try to go overseas, the phone, [00:36:00] the whole is going to ring for them. One day, it’s going to ring with a good opportunity. It doesn’t come. You may go to training camp, you get cut.
That is what retirement looks like for the vast majority of players. And so our goal is not to be there once they’re done. Our goal is to be there so that as they’re entering those later stages of their career, and they’re thinking about, man, look, you know what? I may get one more contract. They’ve also been thinking about what’s next.
They’ve been building interest. They’ve been building out opportunities and there’s some players that say, look, you know what? Dumb plan I would love to work. I focus in on my businesses. That’s not everyone, but our goal is to be as present as possible for the current players so that when they get that final cut and that I could be on a roster for another season, their mind doesn’t go towards, Oh man, it’s over.
I’m all alone. It’s all [00:37:00] right. You know what? Retired players association has a seminar coming up. I should probably tap into that. I should call the office and see what’s going on over there to see what else is there for me, those are the types of things that we want the transition to look like.
Only the superstars have press conferences, all of the superstars say, you know what, that’s it for me. If you see a social media posts for a guy who wasn’t a superstar is typically after a couple of cuts. Or a couple of front offices that said, you know what, it’s not going to happen before you will be made you may want to play G-league, go overseas.
They got miss out. I don’t want to do that at that point. That’s what retirement looks like. That decision wasn’t made by him. It was made for him. So our goal is to get the conversation going as early as possible so that no one’s stuck figuring out, Oh my God, what do I do now? That, because that is where that dark area in [00:38:00] your head comes when you’re going, Oh man, I’m not who I used to be.
I’m not the ballplayer anymore. I’m not that guy who am I? And the truth of the matter is that they’re still the same guy. So you build up the interest in any type of activities, hobbies broadcasting, coaching. Those are the two go-tos, but we’re so much more outside of that. You get those things going while you’re playing.
And then when it’s over, you say, all right, you know what? I’m turning the page. I’m gonna go in this direction. And then I did look, there are guys and ladies who say, you know what, I’m gonna take a year off and do absolutely nothing. But in order to do that, you have to be in a great Headspace that requires planning ahead for the transition.
And that’s our goal is to make sure people are thinking about this way before it’s too late.
Mike Klinzing: [00:38:48] Are you making them aware of the fact that you guys are there for them when their career comes to an end? Because obviously if the player is still playing, they’re probably okay. [00:39:00] Focused on just like you said, Hey, I want to get one more contract.
I want to make a team one more year. I want to keep playing for as long as I can. And so there may be some resistance to getting involved with a retired players association when I’m still an active player. How do you overcome that? And what’s the conversation like, how do you get to those people and get in their ear so they know and are aware of what you guys do for them?
Scott Rochelle: [00:39:23] So the former players are the association, right? The players who make up the association are the association. So what we do is we illuminate those who have recently transitioned and transitioned well, we shine a light on their success. What they’ve been doing. Our board of directors has young guys who’ve been not just successful on the court would have been vocal leaders off the court. So you have Caron Butler, Grant Hill, Sean Marion you know, Jerome Williams. These are guys, who’ve been more than just basketball players. They have been figures across the [00:40:00] board when those guys are representing the association, when they’re out, showing the work, when they’re out doing all the things they do in the community, but representing the association, that’s how you show the current inactive players, what transition looks like.
And then you really show them what our association is. And I’m an executive. I run the corporation. The association is the members. It’s a fraternity and sorority of former NBA, and WNBA players and that has to be out front. And so the more we do to show the great work that’s being done by the NBA alumni and the community, the better it is and the easier it is because these guys were locker room leaders.
Just because they’re not in a locker room anymore doesn’t mean that the players aren’t looking up to them and getting advice from them on what’s next in life. And so our goal is [00:41:00] to grab everyone, we can, who’s doing the right thing to make sure that it’s well-known that they are the standard and you may not be as successful as this person, but you do know that if you take the right steps, you will be okay.
Life will not end when basketball ends. life will change. You’ll change, you’ll change directions, but there is so much more there for you. And so that’s really the goal of our association. I think we’ve been doing a really good job of it. I think that more and more young players are interacting and it’s a beautiful thing.
When you get a call from one of your guys saying, Hey, I have a so-and-so player. He’s coming up on his last year. He wants to talk to you. Great. Send them over. Let’s start this process right now. And that means that that player has a better chance of transitioning well, because they’re already plugged in and they’re listening to their big bros who told them to get involved with this.
Mike Klinzing: [00:41:56] Absolutely. All right. So you’re giving them, you’re giving the former players some [00:42:00] platforms, you yourself have your own podcast. And I know that there, you also have the all access legends podcast. And since we’re podcasters, I was like hearing about what other people are doing with theirs and sort of how they got started and what the goals are.
So just tell us a little bit about the two podcasts that you guys run, what the goal is for those and just how you’ve gone about putting those together and how they’ve helped to spread the word of what you’re trying to do.
Scott Rochelle: [00:42:22] Yeah. We love doing any type of storytelling.
We have the best stories out there. When you talk about former NBA players telling locker room stories, talking about the rookie years, all these things. And so the podcast was really just a way for us to have these conversations and talk about the things that we organically hear at our events.
I mean, there are times I wish I could have a microphone in some of the events and hear the guys talking about the good old days or the rivalries or players they still can’t stand [00:43:00] or play overrated or telling the guy remember I had 22 or 10 on you in Cleveland, Ohio in 1982.
They don’t forget that kind of stuff. And so the goal was to give them a platform to tell their stories, to keep those things alive and have a little fun with it. And so the podcast first came out in 2018 all access podcast, and it was more just kind of static conversation.
Hey, what are you doing now? What was your favorite rival? And we’ve developed it now into a more conversational piece where we’re really pulling some fun stuff out. So the all access podcast exists, where we recreated legends live during the pandemic, which allowed us to have real time conversations talking about real-time issues.
we started off by saying, Hey, how are you doing. we’re all going through this craziest right now, the world is shut down. You as a former player, [00:44:00] how are you dealing with this? How are you handling it? And then there’s social justice issues, we will bring those types of things to the table.
It really was about what the players were thinking. And now that the season has started, we have players coming onto the show and giving us some of their thoughts on the current season. And Vernon Maxwell talking about Utah fans, it really is just fun to give players a platform just to talk your trash, have a little fun, give us a little bit of insight about who you are and what you’re thinking right now.
And then the other pod, the On-Deck pod was set to be created to really communicate what the association is doing. Now what’s on deck for the NBRPA, what are we thinking? What are our plans? What does our next slate of events look like? What are we focusing on? And programming is a career as an education.
Is it licensing? The next one that comes out, it’s going to be talking about NFT [00:45:00] and how players are able to finally, hopefully get a piece of the secondary memorabilia market. When originally players are just getting what they get off the original sale, then that’s it.
And then your trading card is trading hands. 10 times. It has gone up in value a hundred times. The players don’t get that kind of money. So we want to communicate not just to the players, but to the business community partners, what the association as a company is looking to do.
And so as chief executive, that’s something that I’ve taken on as a as a way to communicate. It’s really worked well. We’ve built partnerships, we’ve built great awareness and we’ve helped a lot of the people who are in the space. Who are looking to learn more about us, really get a great idea as to how they can work with us and how we best fit into their business.
Mike Klinzing: [00:45:53] It’s so incredible from a business standpoint, how much easier it is to directly, [00:46:00] share your messages, message with the people that you want to share it with. When you think about whether it’s podcasts or YouTube or video, or now NFT that three months ago, nobody in the least, I know I had never heard of it.
And now suddenly it’s on the lips of everybody and you start thinking about, well, what does that mean? And how do you access it? How do you analyze it? And it’s just, it’s so interesting to me, the different forms of media and how all of us can have a voice. You can turn on your microphone and you can talk into it and you can have these kinds of conversations and hope that you find an audience.
And you guys obviously have a built-in audience of players and people who are fans of those players that will tune in and be a part of that. And it’s gotta be super exciting for you to be a part of all of that. Just hearing you talk, I have to ask you, what is one of your, what’s one of your favorite stories that you’ve had a former player tell you during your time as the president and CEO that [00:47:00] you’d be willing to share on the podcast that the player would be okay with you sharing with our audience. Is there one that you can think of that, that sticks out that can be shared on the podcast and that listeners might get a kick out of
Scott Rochelle: [00:47:16] That’s a good way, because you know, the way you, the way you qualify it, because I’m sure there are some that everyone would enjoy. That either the player might not want shared, or we might not want share depending on how you look at it. So, yeah. You know, I’ll tell you, it really is tough to pick one out that I can actually tell here.
We get guys who like to have their revisionist history placed into the history books. I’ve actually heard the story one incident happening. I heard it five different ways.
Mike Klinzing: [00:47:59] It’s all in your perspective.
Scott Rochelle: [00:47:59] Right. [00:48:00] I would tell the story, but I don’t know which, which one is the truth. But man, I’m struggling to figure out what could be told here. Again, our goal is to, is to start finding ways to get these players to tell these stories on the pods, because they tell them the best. Absolutely. But one of the best was probably what allows Alonzo Mourning told on our pod recently about Prince in Miami Beach.
Everyone knows the Dave Chappelle stories of Prince and his parties, but having lots of warning and his story on that. You gotta go check us out on legends live and, and see the story, how he tells it. But we also had a lot of talk about the famous video GIF for him when he’s on the bench He’s kind of looking like, huh. [00:49:00] Oh, okay. And so. I’ve seen this video hundreds of times, but I’ve never paid attention to the score on the screen. Right. So he talked about it. He told us, he says, yeah if you see the score, we were to lose about 30 points here. We had just come off the championship season.
He’s talking about that. He’s like, well I got a ring out of it.
Mike Klinzing: [00:49:28] Well, let’s put it this way. We are definitely going to put that little clip in the show notes, for sure. We’ll post that along with the episode so that people can see it. If they haven’t seen it, probably chances are, if you’ve been on the internet or spent any time at any place, NBA that you’ve seen that thing.
And even if you’re not an NBA fan, you probably have seen it because it’s, it’s everywhere. And that’s one of the funniest gifs that’s out there for sure. Right. So to hear the backstory behind that, that’s hilarious.
Scott Rochelle: [00:49:57] It’s so relatable, right?
Mike Klinzing: [00:49:58] No question. [00:50:00] There’s no doubt about that.
Well, yeah, the podcasting stuff has got to be fun for you. I know, like we say it all the time that the opportunity that we get to talk to players, coaches. At all levels of the game, we’ve had NBA people on. We’ve had people on that coach AAU basketball at lower levels. We’ve had high school and college coaches and just be able to have them come on and share their stories and share some of the things that they’ve been able to do in the game.
It’s just fun and getting a chance to talk basketball is something that we all love to do. And I think when you think about the former players and you guys put together events and build that community, that’s really what it’s all about is guys just getting together and share what they what they experience collectively.
And I think it’s funny when you mentioned about five different versions of the same story. I think there’s now I have, I have, I have my own version of high school, a teammate or a high school. Opponent of mine ended up being a college teammate of mine. And he and I played in the state tournament the season before.
So we were both seniors in high school and we had a [00:51:00] disputed ending and I’ll just kind of leave it at that. But he and I continue to stick to our our disputed versions of the story. Unfortunately, his version, the version, the version that ended up being. True or the actual outcome ended up in his favor, but I still maintain that the other outcome was the one that should have been true.
But again, you’re never going to get to the truth video of a dog never exists. And especially when you go back, I’m sure with some of the older players they can go back and forth. And what you remember in your mind’s eye is completely different than what may have actually, what may have actually happened.
Scott Rochelle: [00:51:30] You know, what’s funny. I hear the stories and so I can take names out of it, but there there’s are things that are commonplace in the NBA that you never know about. Like players wanting to players who was just done for the day and they just get thrown out of the game. We had a guy tell us, he says, man, look, it was fourth quarter.
We had beers in the locker room. You know what, I’m going to get thrown out.
He looks up and here comes a coach coming in to get his [00:52:00] beers going. Cause this Tiger Woods was on. They wanted to finish watching him, So they said a locker or drinking beers watching the tournament. You said you’d be surprised how many times that happens. I said, you know what? You’re right.
You watch it. You can watch basketball and watch things happen and have no idea the subculture and all the things that are going on behind the scenes and the conversations that are happening and the common fan would lose their mind. But for these guys, like man, 82 games is 82 games. We can’t be here present for all of them.
Mike Klinzing: [00:52:33] Absolutely. It’s so interesting because I think anybody who’s played a team sport and obviously if you play in the NBA by virtue of the length of the season, and then if you have a long career, you playing so many games, you’re in so many different cities and hotels and this and that. And you can only imagine, I mean, I know I played college basketball and so that’s four years.
Some of the stories that developed out of that, and that’s a very short period compared to some of the guys and what they [00:53:00] play in the NBA. And so you can only imagine the stories then, as we all know, just like any good fish story, as the years go on the stories, get bigger and funnier and louder and all those things.
And I’m sure that. Again, to be a fly on the wall or to take a mic and just be able to sit and listen to some of those guys share their war stories. I’m sure it’s probably one of the most fun parts of the job for you without question.
Scott Rochelle: [00:53:23] Oh man. It is. And so sometimes you get real quiet to make sure that they don’t recognize you, you be in there, they can make it to you to tell the story because they look up and they’ll go, Oh, maybe ee shouldn’t have said that. You know, it’s fun. Like being younger than a lot of the guys and kind of being almost like a little brother in some circumstances, you just like hang out and listen to things, but there are times when they’ll tell you, all right, you got to go.
Mike Klinzing: [00:53:53] Absolutely. What’s a success story? Can you give us maybe if you can give us a name. Great. If you [00:54:00] can’t that’s okay, too, but is there a success story, a guy that came to you with a particular desire, a particular want a particular challenge that you guys were able to help them to overcome or to solve or to get a good solution.
Is there a one or two maybe that you could point to somebody that, that came to you and that is a success story?
Scott Rochelle: [00:54:20] There’s so many of them, and I’ll say this though. The majority of the success stories that come to mind right now are in the WNBA. We had women who really come through a lot of our programs.
We work with the NBA on the assistant coaches program, and it’s been tremendous to see the opportunities that are launched out of that. And I’ll use the example of Chastity Melvin Chastity Melvin actually came to us and she actually interned in our office. She interned for a summer in the NBRPA office as a former player intern.
And I loved it because the first day. I’m sorry, the first [00:55:00] Friday of the week. She said, man, this is crazy. This is work. I’ve never wanted to get to a Friday for my life. And I said, Chastity, this isn’t that hard work. She goes, yeah. But I haven’t worked in an office setting. Like this is different for me and you know, okay.
I understand it. And then from there we had a tremendous experience. She was great. She worked well in our office. And when the time came, she applied to this NBA assistant coaches program. And I gave her a strong recommendation like I do for all the members who come through. She got a position.
She’s been on G league benches. She’s been breaking barriers in the NBA and coaching men. And every time I seen her now, I think back to that first Friday, well, she’s walking out. She goes, good Lord. It’s like, y’all do this every week. It was like welcome to the real world.
Right, but we had a degree completion [00:56:00] program and you know, it was really for players to finish out degrees, but some of the women who got involved in it and they said, you know what? I want to get a full master’s degree. And so you take a former WNBA player like Adrian Goodson, Adrian Goodson got her master’s degree in a very short amount of time came out of the program.
You know, she was with the first one to finish her degree and you know, something that can’t do art association and she’s been working, she went through the assistant coaches program where she’s been grinding and now she has her own podcast and she’s doing great work. And there’s so many of these stories that you see where you just see people who are really just doing great things in their transition that are the result of coming back to the community, using the resources that are there for them, maximizing them and getting some success.
Mike Klinzing: [00:56:52] Yeah. That’s good stuff. I think anytime that you can look at and point to some of the things that you as an organization were able to provide to [00:57:00] them and then. Be able to just enjoy the success that the people that have had that have come through and have been a part of it and continue to be a part of it.
To me, I can’t imagine there’s anything much more rewarding than what you’re doing in that vein is to be able to just sit back and look and say, wow, we’ve seen the success that our programs have had and that the impact that they’ve had on the players. And then conversely, I think that you take it one step further when the players become successful in whatever it is that they do.
Post-career then they’re having an impact, not just on themselves and their own families, but they’re also paying that backwards you know, paying it forward to people by did back and get involved with community and being able to have an impact beyond just themselves. And I think really that’s what it’s all about.
So as you think about that, I want to be respectful of your time here, Scott, and wrap it up with one final question. And when you look ahead to. What’s next. What are some of the initiatives that you mentioned the NFTs [00:58:00] before and putting together a seminar around that? What do you see, or where do you hope that you guys are as an association?
Let’s say five years down the road. What do you anticipate? Or what are you looking to do to make your organization even stronger?
Scott Rochelle: [00:58:14] You know, if five years down the road, I want the conversation around former players to be about ownership. I want the ownership theme and the track that we’re on right now to continue to where former players are owning NBA teams.
They’re taking ownership positions in business and leading. In that fashion so that the players who were on the court know what the future looks like for them. I think we’re there. I think that the players now are making enough money, but they’re also making the right moves. And they’re savvy enough to where the LeBron James and the Carmelo Anthony’s of the NBA now are going to be the leaders are going to be the leaders and owners of [00:59:00] the NBA in the future in a completely different capacity.
And so really looking forward to that piece to show what a really strong transition looks like for the guys to take the whole dynamic and flip it on its head. You know, that’s at a very high level, on a lower level. I would love for former the former player conversation to center more around the successes than the failures.
And I think we’re there. I think we’re doing so much now with regard to the new players who are doing the right things while they’re playing. And then the players who are coming out of the game we’re not talking about the guys who are burning all their money or who are coming up broke.
I think we’re going to normalize players being more than just athletes. We’re going to normalize professional athletes being so many more things outside of what we’re accustomed to. We’re going to learn more about them. We’re going to see them do [01:00:00] more. We’re going to see the films, the television, all those things happen.
And I think it’s going to be a shock for a lot of people, but it’s going to be really comforting for those of us who are in this industry to see how easily these young men and women can be more than athletes
Mike Klinzing: [01:00:18] That’s the right way to phrase it. That being more than just an athlete and taking control of their career and taking control of their brand and I look back in time and I think about the number of times that when I was growing up as a kid in the seventies and eighties, where you heard stories about players, whether it was drugs or whether it was getting in trouble with the law or whether it was being broke, all the things that we kind of talked about here, and now you have a situation where you just don’t hear about those things anymore because the players come into the league, more educated.
I think the league itself, while they’re playing has been active in trying to provide them with the type of education [01:01:00] that they needed in order to avoid those pitfalls. And then you guys are obviously stepping in towards the later ends of players’ careers and providing you with those resources and continuing to provide them with education.
And we’re ending up with way more success stories of players who make that successful transition from their playing career into whatever their post career occupation is going to be, and I think that’s a credit to what you guys have been able to accomplish. I think it’s a credit to what the league itself has been able to accomplish.
And certainly most importantly, it’s a credit to what the individual players have been able to do. And I think when you start looking ahead and you mentioned about ownership, I think LeBron is going to be a guy that in all likelihood is going to blaze the trail. He bought that small percentage of the Boston red Sox that everybody heard about here in the last week or two.
And I think what it takes is somebody to kind of show the path of, Hey, here’s how it can be done. I may be the first guy that’s done it, but I’m sort of blazing that path [01:02:00] for the people who are going to come behind me. And I think when you combine somebody with LeBron’s just again who he is, and then you back it up with an organization like yours, that’s going to provide the education necessary of, Hey, here’s the steps it takes to get to where he is.
To me, it just seems like the future of the league and for all the players is going to be a very bright one. I think it’s a credit to what you guys are trying to do, and I commend you for all the things that you’ve been able to do to have an impact positively on the players. And then consequently, as I said earlier on their greater community that they’re coming back to.
So congratulations on all that. That’s fantastic. Yeah. Thank you much. I want to give you a chance before we get out of here, Scott, to just share how people can find out more about your organization, how can, how they can get in contact with you and where they can find some of the things that we’ve talked about tonight, the podcast and all that stuff.
Just give us as much information as you want about how we can interact with the NBA RPA, and then I’ll jump back in and [01:03:00] wrap things up.
Scott Rochelle: [01:03:00] Certainly, the website is legendsofbasketball.com. If you want to find us on social media, we’re @NBAalumni across all platforms, Facebook, Twitter, Twitch, Instagram, YouTube.
And then my handle is Scott Rochelle_ on Twitter. You can find me there and again really appreciate it. We’re doing great work. The legends media entertainment piece is really humming for us right now. You’ll find legends live on Thursdays. On our Twitter account, as well as Twitch and YouTube, we have Tyler Johnson of the AKA trail, whether it’s hosting, which has been a lot of fun for us, but check us out.
We’re doing a lot of great work. The players are doing great things. We’re in the community. We’re helping out and also many different new ways, launching a new HBCU scholarship this week actually. And so keep up with us, [01:04:00] support us. The players are doing an amazing job and they really do deserve your support.
Mike Klinzing: [01:04:06] Awesome. We cannot thank you enough Scott, for taking the time out of your schedule to join us tonight was a lot of fun to learn a little bit more about what you do, what your role is and how you guys are having an impact on players, both current and retired, and then on the communities that surround them.
So thank you very much. We really appreciate it. And to everyone out there thanks for listening. And we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.