NICK MANZONI – FOUNDER OF SportsLab360 – EPISODE 853

Website – https://sportslab360basketball.com/

Twitter – @SL360Basketball

Email – nicholas@sportslab360.com

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Nick Manzoni is the Founder of SportsLab360, an online platform that empowers youth basketball players to increase their Basketball IQ.  SportsLab360 started in soccer 6 years ago and has now crossed over to basketball. 

At the age of 17, Nick was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer that put his life and his future soccer career in the balance. After nine months of treatment and three surgeries, he was able to recover what was lost and eventually played four years of soccer at the Division 1 level. Because physical activity was not possible during his treatment, he found other ways to continue to develop as a player; he became a student of the game, taking any opportunity he had to further his tactical education and understanding. It was from this experience that the SportsLab360 mission took shape.  Empowering basketball players around the world to make smarter and quicker decisions on the court. Whether it is soccer, basketball, or whatever is coming next, Nick is passionate about creating the most impactful user experience for all athletes using SportsLab360.

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Grab a pen and get ready to take some notes as you listen to this episode with Nick Manzoni, Founder of SportsLab360.

What We Discuss with Nick Manzoni

• SportsLab360 features a video portion, a lesson portion, and a quiz portion that teaches players the tactical aspects of basketball
• Launching SportsLab360 Basketball 6 years after starting the company with soccer
• “Let’s make sure the information is top notch and let’s also make sure that it’s engaging because otherwise we don’t have a product.”
• Getting the language right
• Being diagnosed with cancer at age 17 and how that led him to start thinking about the idea that eventually became SportsLab360
• “I kind of had to figure out a way to keep developing as a player which turned me on to the tactical, the cognitive, the IQ side of the game.”
• “The idea was to create a super easy to use, engaging platform that could help players learn the game and make smarter decisions on the field and now on the court.”
• How being outside the technology industry actually helped in the creation of SportsLab360
• Starting with basic fundamental concepts and building towards higher level, more complex modules
• Working towards more flexibility and more customization for coaches.
• “SportsLab360 raises the baseline in the cognitive abilities of players so that coaches can then more quickly move on to the phase where they’re imprinting their own style because their players are already capable of those foundational pieces.”
• The customization that the Coach Notes feature builds into SportsLab360
• The process for creating a specific teaching module
• Saving coaches time by having players learn away from the court
• The changing viewing habits of kids and getting them to watch games as a student of the game

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SportsLab360 is an online platform that empowers youth basketball players to increase their Basketball IQ. It is made up of engaging, interactive modules that focus on different tactical concepts, from the basics of reading a ball screen, to specific offenses such as the dribble drive. Coaches assign these modules as basketball homework for their players, and can track player progress and scoring, as well as input custom notes within the modules.

By working through the modules before practice, players arrive with a cognitive head-start on the topic, and coaches can get much more out of a single practice. Simply put, rather than having to try and progress from A all the way to Z, SportsLab360 takes care of the first letters of the alphabet, allowing coaches to more quickly move on to the next layer, imprinting their own philosophy and style of play.

SportsLab360 launched in soccer about 6 years ago with lots of success, and have just recently launched in basketball.

THANKS, NICK MANZONI

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TRANSCRIPT FOR NICK MANZONI – FOUNDER OF SportsLab360 – EPISODE 853

Mike Klinzing: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by Nick Manzoni, the founder of SportsLab360. Nick, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.

NIck Manzoni: Thanks for having me on, Mike.

Mike Klinzing: Thrilled to have you on, looking forward to learning a little bit more about this very cool, innovative, unique product that you guys have created.

I had a chance myself to go on and do some of the demos that you have on the web. And I think it looks like there’s a ton of potential here for players and coaches. To really improve their basketball IQ, improve their mental game. So we’re going to start tonight’s episode instead of going through Nick’s background, which we’re going to get to here eventually.

We’re going to let Nick explain a little bit about what Sports Lab 360 is all about and how it can help basketball players and coaches. And then we’ll dive a little bit more into the story behind it.

NIck Manzoni: Perfect. So basically what it is, Sports Lab 360 is an [00:01:00] online platform made up of individual modules that focus on different tactical principles of the game.

So at the most basic level, we have modules on introduction to a ball screen or all screen spacing. And as we kind of work our way up in complexity, we get into specific types of offenses how to attack different types of zone defenses and other things. So, what a module is, it’s about 12 to 15 minutes kind of engaging, interactive experience for players.

It features a video portion, a lesson portion, and a quiz portion. So, I Typically try to avoid the H word, but the homework word really helps kind of bring it together. So as a coach, if I’m going to be working on let’s say implementing a dribble drive into my team next week in practice typically at the beginning of the season, I would go on to SportsLab360.  I would find the module that is focused on that. And maybe I’m starting [00:02:00] just on some simple ball screen stuff. But I would find the module that applies to that. I would then make the assignments to my team and to my players, and then the players work through that module. So again, starting. with a video to introduce the concept and show some different examples.

And we use high school game film from a few different high schools around the country for that. And then players complete the video. They move on to the lesson, which is kind of what ultimately separates SportsLab360 from some of the other programs out there. We’ve teamed up with a kind of 3D Animation software company called Tactic 3D and we’ve created sort of a video game style different scenarios for the players to work through and based on what they’ve learned in the video, it will pause at a certain moment. It’ll say, hey based on these two factors, which pass is the correct decision or ultimately, what’s the best decision based on the factors, always providing enough [00:03:00] context so we’re never saying this is right, this is wrong, period.

So players work through about a five or six minute lesson and then players move on to the quiz portion. Which is five questions, helps them review and also gives coaches the ability to track the scoring and the progress of their players to make sure they’re completing their assignments.

And there’s some other bells and whistles kind of within the platform, but I’ll go into a bit more detail on those later. So yeah, that’s kind of how we’ve set up the program. We launched in soccer six years ago and are now moving into basketball.

Mike Klinzing: When I went through and did the demo, just as an aside here before we get into your backstory, one of the things that I really thought was well done is the animation made it really easy for me as someone who’s sitting there.

And I was actually looking at it on my phone, so not on a giant screen, but it was very easy for me to Be able to look at and see what the lesson was that was being taught. I could tell where [00:04:00] the defender was trying to go. I could tell where the screen was being set. I could tell where the cutter was supposed to be.

And sometimes I think when you people hear animation, they think, oh it’s not going to be very realistic. But when you go on there and you get a chance to look at this, I think you’ll see that the animation, you guys have done a really good job with that. So kudos because I thought that part of it was really well done.

NIck Manzoni: No, I appreciate that. That has been since day one, one of the biggest priorities is even if you have the best information out there, if you’re not presenting it in a way that is going to be sticky and keep players coming back and enjoying it when we’re competing against 2K or FIFA you know, I certainly can’t claim to have those graphics, because I myself have got to a point where I can’t tell if I’m watching real life or video games, but we wanted to make it more than a 2d diagramming and even more so than some [00:05:00] basic 3d stuff. So that’s been the priority is let’s make sure the information is top notch and let’s also make sure that it’s engaging because otherwise we don’t have a product.

Mike Klinzing:  It looks like an advanced coaching tool. It’s more than just X’s and O’s moving around on a magnetic board. And that’s the part of it that I like when you’re looking at it. If I’m a player and maybe I’m used to watching film with my team and now I’m looking at the animations, I can see the correlation between the two as opposed to if there’s just numbers and X’s and O’s moving around on the screen. Sometimes that’s a little bit harder for players to follow, but because it’s a 3D animation, I feel like that made it easier for me when I was looking at it, trying to envision, okay, if I’m a player and I’m looking at this, am I going to be able to decipher what it is that I’m trying to learn?

And the answer to that was yes. And so that’s why I guess, again, kudos to you guys, because you’ve done an excellent job with that and made it so that anybody who’s looking at it is going to clearly be able to [00:06:00] identify and see what it is that they’re trying to learn. And I think that, I’m sure was not super easy to figure out and to put that all together.

So you guys have done a really good job with that.

NIck Manzoni:. Appreciate that.  I had the benefit coming into basketball recently where I’d kind of gone through the growing pains in soccer of figuring out how to create content efficiently and like I said, in an engaging way and using player perspectives when it makes sense. Well, also, I mean, at first, the 1st year, a lot of it was just making sure my language was concise and correct and was not, as I mentioned earlier, boxing players into 1 way of thinking. Well, also there’s the other extreme of having everything be like overly subjective to the point where there’s no direction.

So [00:07:00] I think coming into basketball, I at least had five or six years of practice from creating the soccer platform where that went a little bit more efficiently.

Mike Klinzing: How much better is the product than it was when you started first with soccer in terms of the quality of the tech?

NIck Manzoni: The quality of the tech, I mean, as far as the features and the functions go, we’ve kind of just consistently and steadily added some different things.

So actually what we haven’t added with basketball yet but is actually as of a couple of weeks ago, started the production of it is a… a session plan or a practice plan library so that once coaches are assigning a certain module, they can then go into our library of practice plans and have some ideas of how they want to implement that in training.

So that was one of the big features we kind of added after a few years in soccer. There’s another kind of key feature and [00:08:00] I’m sure we’ll get into this. at some point in this conversation, but obviously in basketball, there’s some more specificity around how a coach might want to run his or her offense or defense.

So we put in a coach notes feature, which I can get into later that allows that customization. So it also has the benefit of basketball sportslab360 basketball is kind of coming in much later and much more developed than where we started in soccer. So we’ve ironed out a lot of it as far as tech issues go, I mean, almost none with basketball so far, knock on wood.

I’m sure I’m jinxing myself there, but we’ve ironed out those creases over the past five or six years. So our basketball coaches can hopefully get a smoother experience than some of our early soccer coaches.

Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. Completely can understand where you’re coming from on that, which is where the genesis of my question came from.

All right, let’s go back to. Your story, tell me a little bit about your [00:09:00] athletic background and then how that sort of led into the idea for SportsLab360.

NIck Manzoni: Yeah, so a bit of a bit of a unique founder story.  I played soccer through college growing up since I was three or four years old.

And 12 or 13 years. But to kind of start from the beginning when I was 17, I was going into my senior year of high school, our soccer team was looking good. I was starting to narrow down where I wanted to play in college. Life was great. And before the high school season started up at a tournament out in San Diego I think for a showcase and I flew out there, started to get some pain in my calf, which kind of put me on crutches for that trip that weekend and kept me off the field.

So I get back home, go into the doctor and he kind of diagnosed it quickly as a general overuse type of sports injury. For whatever reason. As I was walking out to the parking lot, he ran out and was like, Hey, just to be safe, let’s get an MRI. See if there’s anything weird going on. [00:10:00] And from there, it was kind of a whirlwind of tests, biopsies, doctors.

And I think within like 24 hours, I was in the hospital hooked up to chemo and for maybe, I think 50 days and nights in the hospital over like a nine month period. And then had a pretty major surgery to remove the tumor and part of my shin bone. So ultimately it was this fairly rare type of bone cancer.

And during that nine months I was relatively incapacitated physically. So I still wanted to give myself as much of a chance as possible to play in college and potentially. So I kind of had to figure out a way to keep developing as a player which turned me on to the tactical, the cognitive, the IQ side of the game.

So while I wasn’t out on the field improving the other parts of my game, I could at least keep one element moving in the right direction. So kind of through that process first opened up my mind to how important and how big of a difference a high iq, whether it’s basketball, soccer, any other sport, really is.[00:11:00]

And I think played a role in my ability to get back on the field. And I was lucky and fortunate to play four years of division one soccer after that. But not to ramble on, I did notice through the process is that there wasn’t really a whole lot geared towards the tactical and IQ piece of the game.

And from what I’ve seen in basketball so far, it’s, it’s similar where you have a lot of really awesome shooting and ball handling programs but not too much focused on training the brains of players. There’s obviously some stuff out there. But then looking at the more cognitive and  IQ tactical resources that are out there for learning the game. They’re primarily coach focused. So the idea was to create a super easy to use, engaging platform that could help players learn the game and make smarter decisions on the field and now on the court. So again, whether, whether we’re talking about basketball or soccer, the quote unquote, basketball IQ and soccer IQ, they become [00:12:00] pretty big buzzwords and I think in many cases they’re not necessarily attacked as intentionally at the player level as other pieces of the game. So yeah, at a personal level, that’s kind of how the momentum behind the idea really got started.

Mike Klinzing: Going back to your time when you’re laid up and you’re trying to recover from cancer and you’re going through the chemo and all the things that go along with that.

What were you looking at film wise in terms of studying and looking at that type of the soccer stuff that you’re looking at to try to improve your IQ? Where did you go? How did you kind of start to curate what was out there to look at for… You to be able to increase your soccer IQ, because obviously you start like, look, you can go on the internet and find a bazillion things, like you said, and part of the problem is, is how do [00:13:00] I take what’s out there and figure out what’s beneficial, especially if I’m a player, even if I’m a player at a high level, like you obviously were, how did you go about sort of narrowing down and thinking about what you wanted to look at to be able to help you improve your IQ, which I assume then as you started to figure out what worked for you.

And that’s kind of what led into, Hey, this is what should be included as you started to come up with the idea for this actually being a business. But just talk a little bit about what you looked at while you were laid up.

NIck Manzoni: Yeah. So I think a lot of the kind of pain point as a player of trying to increase my understanding of the game was, I mean, I’d say YouTube was like a starting point and it probably covered the majority of what I was trying to do in increasing my cognitive abilities there. And I think the problem with that was that I didn’t know what the [00:14:00] quality of what I was watching is. I mean, there’s obviously no filters there. No one’s sitting there judging which videos should get passed based on what they’re teaching.

So I think, just the fragmentation and the uncertainty around having to go on YouTube and try to decide for myself is this coach who’s explaining this on a whiteboard? Does he or she know what they’re talking about? And even if you did find a good resource, a good video, there was still that context was missing.

There wasn’t one central place for a player, in this case myself, to go to and have it be the starting point. And in some cases, the ending point for what concepts need to be covered and how they fit into the bigger picture. So I’d say YouTube was, was the primary source and a lot of good stuff on there.

Obviously there’s plenty of content but that’s also what led me to kind of [00:15:00] identify that there is a need for one single resource or other sportslab360s come in great, but like one resource that you can use to take care of all the IQ components of soccer or of basketball.

Mike Klinzing: How long were you into the process of starting to do all this before you realize that, Hey, maybe there’s. of business here. Do you remember the moment when the light bulb clicked on or was it more of a gradual sort of progression towards this business idea?

NIck Manzoni: It was, I’d say it was more gradual. I mean, fast forwarding probably a few years after that is when I kind of jumping ahead a little bit, I guess, but how it got started as a business is I was a, let’s see, I was going into my senior year at Drake in Iowa and I saw that there was this pitch competition going on and I think I [00:16:00] found out kind of the day before and through my time in the hospital and trying to hone in on my cognitive skills like you’re asking, there was really no moment where the light bulb went off, but I think over that nine month period and the year following where I was still recovering it kind of just became apparent that this is something that should exist.

I applied to have this interactive soccer homework for players as a business idea, got a little bit of money to get started. And then I think kind of a couple realities set in right off the bat one was Hey, there, there actually is potential here.

There’s some momentum. There’s some backing. And also dang, I’m 21. I really don’t know anything about starting a business and on top of the challenge of starting the business. I was also about to graduate. So there was plenty of urgency and getting it going and having some sort of income.

And I’ll shout out my brother here who let me crash on his couch for a good [00:17:00] 6 months while Yeah, so the first thing I kind of did to further validate the idea was I reached out to a whole bunch of different people in the soccer space, a lot of directors of coaching, players, parents, anybody in the space at all.

And I just tried to learn more and as much as possible about what they were using and really what problems they were facing and all that stuff. And I think it definitely validated my own theories and my own experiences about how challenging it was to find good resources as a player. And as a coach, and we can touch on that later, but like, yeah, basically let those responses craft how the platform was built. And then linked up with a web developer who was actually a sophomore at Drake and got super lucky. This guy was awesome and built a lot of the foundation that TechWise SportsLab360 is on today. And five or six years later, we’ve had hundreds of thousands of players come [00:18:00] through the platform on soccer and some top clubs in the nation.

And I think got to a point where I knew it needed to be applied to other sports. I wanted to offer this, whether it was focused on coaches or players to have the same capabilities that we were able to provide soccer clubs and soccer teams and soccer players. So then, yeah, rewind seven or eight months ago from now and jumped into basketball.

Mike Klinzing: How much of the tech side of it did you know when you started, did you completely rely On your partner on the web design side, was that something that you could envision, even if you didn’t necessarily know how to code it? Did you have a good idea of what you wanted to create when you went to them?

Or was it more of a collaboration of sort of here’s the idea of what I’m trying to do. Let’s figure out how we can do it. Just what was the process for going from, okay, here’s the idea to how do we create this tech platform that allows us [00:19:00] to do the things that you kind of envisioned for this platform to do?

NIck Manzoni: Yeah, great question. I guess to be fair, I remember one of the first conversations I had with the developer, and this was actually the very first developer who lasted a couple months. And then he actually connected me with this other guy who was involved for like 3 or 4 years. And I think the first thing I said to this very early on developer was like, Hey, we’re looking for something maybe with FIFA, like graphics complete interactivity and all this stuff. And he was like, yeah, that’s10 million at a minimum. And I’m not even close to being able to do that. So we worked through like a couple of iterations and I think after a few months it became apparent that building the content itself, like from scratch, hard coding any sort of animation platform was going to be a very time consuming and expensive way to go. So, that, in [00:20:00] both soccer and in basketball, was, after a few months we realized, alright, we’re outsourcing that. As far as the functions and stuff go, I don’t really have any sort of formal background in tech, and, I don’t know, maybe you can relate to this, or I’m sure some people listening can relate, where not having that formal background and expertise in tech almost, I think, better equipped me to be able to build something.

Because if I can’t build something that I, as an average tech user, can immediately, like, Pretty much the standard now is like you need to immediately respond or understand it. Otherwise the attention span for kids is obviously not the longest. So I knew that it was something, if people don’t understand this right when they open it up we’re going to struggle.

So I did pretty much all the design work and to be honest, I’ve really enjoyed that part of it. And then functionality wise, I wanted to keep it simple. I knew I wanted coaches to be [00:21:00] able to make assignments. I knew I wanted them to be able to track the progress and view the individual quizzes and the scoring of their players.

I knew I wanted some customization element, which is important. I mean, in any sport, probably more so in basketball, even compared to soccer. And then I knew that eventually I wanted some sort of session plan library to go along with it. So to be arguably too candid here, I think what I shared about my knowledge and level of expertise in tech also is fairly true with creating basketball content.

So I almost use myself as the last line of defense for a module. So I work with many different coaches to create the curriculum and create the content. But like I mentioned, I haven’t been playing basketball for 25 years, like I have soccer. So using me as almost a litmus test of if I don’t understand [00:22:00] it, I can’t expect a 12 year old kid to understand it or a high schooler to understand it.

So. In a way, that’s also been helpful in creating the content side of things to make sure that I’m speaking to the widest possible audience. Now that makes complete sense.

Mike Klinzing: When you built the soccer side of it, were you the quote unquote soccer expert? Were you putting together most of the modules or did you have a team?

And then I guess that goes to the next part of the question, which is, as you started to build the basketball side of it, Where did you go? Who did you talk to? Who did you bring on to the team? You don’t have to give specific names, but just what was the process for getting some people on there that could help you on the technical side with basketball?

NIck Manzoni: Yeah, absolutely. So in soccer, it was, I think at first we had a couple coaches and my college coach helped out a decent amount. And then another director of coaching in Iowa who helped with some of the content. So they were involved. And then [00:23:00] it also was kind of at a point where in soccer, and I think we’re kind of working to eat to eventually be in a higher level in basketball, but in soccer, it was, Let’s take really important, really foundational, ultimately fairly simple concepts and be really good at explaining them to players because you’ve seen it in basketball, I’m sure where, whether it’s a 12 year old, an 18 year old, whatever, there are some times where you’re watching and you think it’s obvious, but clearly it’s not making the right decision.

So it was really, the focus was let’s start with the basic foundational concepts that we know, we are very aware of, and if we’re not going on Google and kind of amalgamate everything that’s out there and, and come up with the best possible information to feed players. And that’s kind of the approach in basketball too.

So I started off. There’s a [00:24:00] person I went to high school with who played through college and has been coaching since, so he helped out with a lot of the content to start, then moved to actually a person I went to college with who played at Drake, who now coaches at the college level. So he helped out for a while and he’s still a little bit involved and then at the moment man, I can’t remember. There’s a college coach who has, I think it might’ve been on this podcast, but anyway, he’s involved in the content creation now. And we’re, as I mentioned a couple minutes ago, we’re starting foundationally like we did in soccer, but obviously basketball is a little bit different of a beast and having more specific offenses and sets and schemes and everything. There’s more content to build. So that is kind of the direction I think we’re heading in okay, now we have introduction to a ball screen. We have screener reads and an off ball screen. We have spacing, cutting, and [00:25:00] passing in a motion offense, kind of universal principles that players need to understand in order to understand how a Princeton offense works or different things like that how it fits into the bigger picture of their coaching scheme.

So as we build higher level content, that’s kind of the direction that we’re heading.

Mike Klinzing: I think it’s probably the right approach when you start talking about being able to build something that, as you mentioned earlier, that you want a kid intuitively to be able to look at it, watch it, understand it, and then to be able to learn from it ultimately, which is what we’re trying to do here is improve a player’s IQ and improve their performance.

Out on the court. And as you said, that mental side of it, look, it’s great to have, be able to get those physical reps, but to be able to be sitting at home and be in front of your computer or be on your phone and to be able to improve your basketball IQ, that’s have to be something that for any player is going to be attractive and obviously for coaches, if you can create more players that [00:26:00] have a higher basketball IQ, that’s going to really help them.

So as you started to build out your different modules, and obviously, as you said, you’re trying to start with some of the most basic fundamental skills. So give people an idea of just a couple of the modules that you already have built out that when they go online and they look at this, some of the things that they’ll be able to see that they can consider as they think about jumping onto the platform.

NIck Manzoni: Yeah. So, I mean, I’m pulling up the modules page now and we have it structured categorically and anybody who goes to the website you obviously can’t work through every module, but, well, you can if you subscribe, but you can view every single module and then see what concepts we have on there. So it kind of starts off, we have introduction to a ball screen, ball handler reads in a ball screen, screener reads in a ball screen things like.

Handling a trap, flex motion offense to get specific. So obviously these are [00:27:00] different kind of layers and levels of concepts, but we’ve hit most of the foundational universally applicable principles. I’m sure there’ll be more that come up with as we create more content.

But now it’s creating things like more rigid flex motion offense or dribble drive or attacking a 2 3 zone defense ,screening, attacking a 2 3 zone defense high low, attacking a 1 2 2 zone defense screening. So we’ve started to get a little bit more granular in the topics.

And that’s kind of the process we’re working through right now, to be honest, is we’re never going to be able to create every single type of offense with every single variation that coaches want. So we’re exploring a couple of features that will allow more customization on top of the notes feature that we currently have.

And we can talk through that a bit too, I think we’re still at a point [00:28:00] where we’re pushing content out quickly and we want to eventually be at a point where if we could right now, it’s like, we don’t expect coaches to adapt their philosophy or what they’re doing with their team to what’s in our modules.

I think it eventually down the road could be something where a coach. runs a Princeton offense with like a specific read. And if we don’t have that read, maybe the coach looks at our module and says, you know what, the value of this platform and my players working through this, even if it’s slight tweak off of what I was thinking about running is worth having that adjustment or continuing to work towards more flexibility and more customization for coaches.

So that’s kind of to be candid is what we’re working through right now at the moment. But yeah, I think a good example to use is, if you look at screener reads or ball handler reads in the context of a Princeton offense. So as a [00:29:00] coach, if you’re teaching the Princeton offense and your players don’t have the basketball IQ required to understand the reads off of a screen.

It’s going to be pretty tough to get that offense running efficiently or best case it’ll be kind of rigid and predictable and clunky. So what we offer to players is that like holistic understanding of the game. So for example when looking for a slip, if a defender jumps the screen, cheats the screen, then that allows the coach to get to the part in practice where he or she can kind of start working on those higher level concepts.

So in a way at the most basic level, we’re kind of a time saver for coaches so that they don’t need to spend 10, 15, 20 plus minutes in practice from just standing there and explaining things. And in some cases explaining to one player what the rest of the team might already know. So we kind of serve as that it creates a [00:30:00] consistency and also raises the baseline in the cognitive abilities of players so that coaches can then more quickly move on to the phase where they’re imprinting their own style because their players are already capable of those foundational pieces.

Mike Klinzing: Homework, right? It goes back to what you talked about right off the top. And although maybe that’s a word that it may have one connotation or another.

I do think that when you start talking about a player being able to be taught something by their coach on the floor in practice. And then I can go home and I can practice and look at these reads off a screen, figure out what it is that I’m supposed to know. And then I can come back. And as you said, now the coach can incorporate some of those concepts.

Into whatever it is, the scheme that they’re running. So maybe, yeah, they don’t run it in the exact same way or the exact same spot that [00:31:00] you guys are showing, but the concept of where the defender goes and how you react to that as somebody who’s trying to use the screen. That’s sort of a universal principle, no matter which offense a coach may be running.

So when you start talking about helping players to build that basic level of IQ, which then is going to allow them to react better into a more specific scheme, which I think kind of what you’re getting at, that maybe eventually you might have some of those more specific offenses built in. And maybe you’re looking at that specific read for that specific offense.

Whereas for now, it’s a general, Hey, this is how you read this screen. This is how you go. If the defender goes over the top or the defender ducks underneath or the two the defense, the defense switches. Then you have an opportunity now to figure out, okay, what can we do? What’s the counter to that?

What read do I have to make? And the more players see that, the better off they are. I mean, [00:32:00] obviously there’s tons of studies. I don’t have to tell you that when you’re rehearsing something mentally, You’re getting a ton of value in rehearsing it mentally. And as a coach, I know one of the things that any coach would say is, right, you want your players to have a higher basketball IQ.

You want them to be able to understand situations. And so if you’re putting the players in a position where they can get some of that practice, Off the floor. So you’re not on the practice court and they’re doing it on their time. They’re taking that extra time to be able to study the concepts that you guys have.

To me, it just makes a lot of sense that it’s going to benefit those individual players who do it. And it’s going to also benefit a coach and their team. You mentioned about the coach notes feature that you guys have, which allows coaches to kind of customize, maybe put their own language into some of the things that they’re seeing within SportsLab360 [00:33:00]

So tell us a little bit about that coach notes feature and how coaches can utilize that.

NIck Manzoni: Yeah, so essentially what it is is as a coach, ideally as a coach, you’re going through, you’re taking the 12 to 15 minutes to go through a module for yourself before you’re assigning it to your team. So you know what’s in it and what your players are going to be seeing.

So in that process of going through the module, as I mentioned, so each module has a video lesson quiz. So in the video portion or in the lesson portion, coaches, as they’re working through it to get an idea of what’s being shared to their players they can basically, a customized note into the content that will then freeze frame for the player it will kind of blow a little whistle and a note will pop up you know, Coach Mike says, Hey, we, we really struggled in last week’s game with this.

You know, this concept is exactly what I’m talking about. Let’s make sure, rewind it, watch it again if you need to make sure [00:34:00] you understand the type of thing. And in some cases it can be used to tweak language because obviously there’s a whole bunch of different terms for the same thing ultimately.

In cases where there are two or three really common ones. And then there’s always going to be a random coach out there that calls something that no one else does for sure. Can’t cover all those, but in cases where it’s common to use a couple of different terms, we will explicitly call it out and say, Hey, your coach might call it this.

We encourage you to ask them. So that’s the idea behind the coach notes feature. It’s possible that in the future we’ll kind of expand that into some sort of drawing or animation that coaches can do. But for now they can still have their voice or I guess their text in there so that they can make any adjustments or additions that they need to.

Mike Klinzing: What does the process for creating the script [00:35:00] for a module, what does that look like in terms of the collaboration amongst the people on your team as you’re trying to get the basketball language correct and you’re trying to make sure that this part of the script matches up with this part of the animation and then creating the quizzes.

How do you go about actually creating the written part of the module and putting that together to make sure that it’s getting across all the things that you want to get across?

NIck Manzoni: Yeah, great question. It usually starts once we’ve decided on the topic and actually, to be fair, I guess it kind of starts before that, because we’ll take a category as an example, the ball screen category, and we’ll say, All right, let’s get some stuff on paper.

Let’s think through how many modules it makes sense to start with in this category if we’re keeping it foundational at the beginning. And once we’ve kind of mapped out an idea of what the different topics in a certain category could be, then [00:36:00] we sit down and start trying to put together, all right, what are the key pieces of information that should and really need to be shown and displayed in this module?

And in some cases, that results in consolidating some modules or maybe turning one module into three modules. But once we get a clear sense of, all right, within the ball screen category, we’re going to start with these five. Then we go with one of the specific modules and we actually have for each category.

We have an introduction module, which is like a three minute video that obviously introduces what the rest of the modules in that category will be. But anyway, if we’re focusing on one module I’m sitting down the team, in some cases, it’s one other coach, in some cases, it’s a couple.

And we have three to five key pieces that we want to show. Sometimes they’re really simple. And sometimes they’re a bit more [00:37:00] kind of, I guess, dependent and tangential where it’s not as clean cut. And once we have those pieces, The film piece is always kind of a challenging one. So right now I have the luxury of working with somebody who has high school film and he has a film bank where he can go in and pick out moments where they did x, y, or z concept correctly or incorrectly.

So typically how it works is I’ll go through myself and I’ll pick out 10 to 15 moments in a game where a team, to use the example of like handling a trap, a team handled the trap well, handled the trap poorly, or handled it a certain way based on what we’ve outlined as key pieces of information that need to be shown in a module, and then the coach, expert, content creator, whatever you want to call them.

We’ll go through and say, all right, this clip one at [00:38:00] 42 minutes and 30 seconds is showing these few things and then most importantly, and this is what I’m always trying to improve on communicating to whoever I’m working with on content at the time is we need to not just narrate what we’re seeing, but we also need to have a clear narration of how that fits into the more objective pieces that we’re teaching how the reaction of a defender doing one thing leads the ball handler to make a certain decision and why that is quote unquote correct, which again, we try to avoid. But so that is kind of how the outlines are structured. And then from there, I mean, after doing it for 6, 7 years the process of actually getting a script written out is usually not the longest part. The lesson portion is a little bit more interesting because you have rewinds, you have player perspectives, you have more, I guess, more [00:39:00] complexity around it. So with those, I can pretty much take what we have outlined as key pieces of information for, again, handling a trap.

And I can almost write out scenarios and say, Hey, this is what I’m thinking about showing. What do you think? Coach will get back to me. We’ll have a meeting. We’ll talk through. All right. Scenario one, we’re going to have this play out. We’re going to be highlighting the decision of the screener or whoever, and these are the components we’re going to be looking at.

And then you’re going to rewind. Defender number four, he’s going to be three more steps into the paint this time, and he’s going to be moving to his left away from the player in the corner, for example. And now we phrase the question as, Hey, based on the reaction of this defender, as he moves into the paint, does that open up player A or player B?

As a player, I’m working through it. Oh, I can see that defender’s shifting has opened up the player in the corner. That cues the [00:40:00] player to make the pass out wide. And I think even just the word cues is very important. Because I think in soccer, to be transparent, hopefully you don’t have too many too many soccer coaches on here, but no, we’ve actually back and changed the verbiage there.

But initially it was a lot of like, this is right. This is wrong. Correct. Whereas we’ve kind of found our stride here and the phrasing of a question of like, what does this cue the player to do is, is important. Even if it’s just words at the end of the day I think players just learning the IQ and the tactical piece with that kind of constant context of understanding it in the, I guess, as cues rather than, rather than dogmas or right and wrong is important.  So yeah, that’s more or less the process of it.

Mike Klinzing: I feel like that’s the way games are played, right? I mean, games are played through cues. I mean, we don’t necessarily always think about that or process that as athletes. But [00:41:00] clearly, if you’re on the soccer field or I’m on the basketball court and we’re doing something out there on the floor, what we’re doing is not dictated by what we necessarily want to do.

It’s okay, what is our opponent doing? And then we have to react to what we see from our opponent. So, in essence, that’s the cue that you’re talking about where, okay, the defender did this. Now, what do I do in relation to what that defender just did. And obviously the advantage of being able to do it on the computer or on your phone or through SportsLab360 is that you can look at it multiple times.

You can look at it and have it in stop motion. Whereas when you’re on the game floor or on the field, you have to make those reactions instantaneously. And clearly we’re hoping to do here is to be able to make it so that what the player is learning through this process. Is eventually [00:42:00] translating to them, being able to read those cues out on the floor.

And that’s ultimately the goal. How have you guys found, whether anecdotally or statistically in terms of the impact? What have you heard from people who have used the program? Probably more on the soccer side, you probably have more data or more stories on that end of it, but just what are you seeing in terms of feedback as far as the effectiveness?

NIck Manzoni: Yeah, so I mean, obviously over the last six years with soccer we’ve been able to grow a decent amount, but I still try as much as I can to go out of my way and talk to not just coaches and clubs, but if there’s a player or a parent that individually reaches out, I actually had that thing.

I don’t know, it might’ve been like a U12 soccer player had reached out on the chat bot and was concerned about his or her quiz score being correct. And I also had a question about what they were seeing in the module. So still very much enjoying and make an effort to have those conversations.

On the coach side of things [00:43:00] I’ve definitely worked with a lot of fantastic coaches. And in some cases, these are coaches that are paying out of pocket for the platform, as opposed to collecting from parents to purchase access. And I think a big thing is that when coaches set the standard with their teams and with their players right away and say Hey, this is an optional, this is also not something that’s going to take up more than, I mean, honestly, at most a half hour each week.

Maybe 45 minutes, tops. And what we found in those cases is that helps it be sticky. That sets the tone from, from day one. And I’ve had plenty of conversations with soccer coaches where they have players that show up to practice and they’re working through a certain drill, certain activity, and they’ll kind of explicitly call out and have a dialogue with their teammates or with their coach about something that they saw in SportsLab360 before [00:44:00] practice or last night, whenever they worked through the module.

So those stories are always really nice to hear. And I think coaches who are intentional about having, even if it’s a two minute dialogue in practice that not only kind of helps everybody get on to the same page, but also it creates a little bit of pressure for the couple of players that maybe forgot to do their homework the previous night.

So I think really what it does too, is it attaches more meaning to the instruction that any coach is giving. So previously, a player might hear an instruction, like, like clear out from their coach and they might understand the what of the command, but because they worked through SportsLab 360, they can understand the reasoning and the why behind it.

So each kind of piece of instruction that a coach gives, then has more context that the player can take that instruction in with which kind of just [00:45:00] has an accelerating impact on the team environment. So yeah, to answer your question whether it’s coaches or parents or players we’ve had a lot more positive feedback than negative.

I think honestly, the few negatives we’ve had have been random tech things more early on. But I haven’t in six years of doing it, I haven’t had any players or coaches or anybody ask for a refund because it wasn’t effective or anything like that. So it’s been really good so far.

I do think the ceiling is even higher for basketball with the way that it’s taught and different the specificity around it and really when you compare 22 players on a field running around fairly free flowing versus basketball, 10 players, you have sets, you have schemes more specific.

I think this, way of teaching can be super, super powerful.[00:46:00] So yeah, I’m excited to see what directions it takes, but I think where we stand right now is also in a really strong position where we have these foundational modules out that are going to be helpful for many, many different ages and many levels that again, will allow coaches to then take the next step much more quickly.

Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. I mean, I can see when I think about the way that basketball coaching And the playing of the game has changed. One of the things that I hear from coaches that we’ve talked to on the podcast a lot is that 20 or 30 years ago, that players didn’t necessarily want to know the why behind what they were doing.

And coaches oftentimes didn’t want to share the why behind what they were doing. It was just, this is what we’re doing and you’re the player and you’re going to do it. And now we hear from so many coaches that say, We not only have to explain what we’re doing, but players are much smarter today. They want to know [00:47:00] the why behind it.

They’re much less likely to blindly accept, Hey, this is what we’re doing. So I think what you guys have done is to create a platform where it kind of answers, Now, maybe not to that coach’s specific offense, but if a coach is telling a player on the floor, Hey, here’s where you should have gone on this screen.

Or here’s why, where I think that the choice you made maybe wasn’t the best choice. This is where I think you should have gone. Now there’s kind of a why behind that. And not only can the coach show that on the floor, but then. That can be backed up by having the player go and work on their own away from the practice floor and to be able to see that why in a different way.

And then I guess the other thing I would say is that everybody learns in a different way, right? And so I would think that for someone who’s a visual learner, that this would just be you wouldn’t be. A tremendous way for somebody who learns visually to be able to sit down in front of [00:48:00] their screen and be able to look at these different concepts.

And then again, sort of ingest the why that’s going to help them when they eventually get out on the practice floor. To me, it just makes so much sense. Do you see that same trend when you talk to soccer coaches or you think about yourself as a coach? Do you find yourself explaining why more than you ever have?

NIck Manzoni: Yeah. I mean, which is, yeah, it’s great. We have a little bit more. Yeah. We have more kids, more players. questions, which is good. And I think like you’re saying, we’re never going to be in a position where we’re replacing coaches. It’s our goal compared to some maybe more robust technologically platforms.

Our, I guess our kind of mission statement there is we’re going to be very practical about how we teach players and how we develop players and we can make 20 to 30% increases in a player’s cognitive [00:49:00] ability. So that as a coach when you just think about how much time you spent over the years stopping practice, sometimes just for a single player, explaining something.

And that time adds up. And if we can save a coach 20 or 30 percent of time in practice that they can spend on focusing more specifically on something they’re trying to do and their own style then we feel like we’ve done a pretty good job. So I think that’s kind of the way to view it.

I think it’s important that we keep encouraging kids to ask those questions. And as we come up with these new technologies that can start to answer them I think it just accelerates everything and the dialogues in practice are much better.

And not to mention it’s a little bit different in basketball, but in soccer, a big piece of it was the U. S. compared to Europe and other countries, kids aren’t [00:50:00] watching soccer. And in basketball, like in basketball, it does seem like from what I’ve heard, there’s a little bit of a decline in that too, or they’re watching it, but not necessarily through the lens of a student of the game.

So by just like switching on that part of their brain too, I think when they’re, whether they’re watching a highlight or watching a full game, they’re able to view it through that lens of a student. I think when we look at a lot of what’s going on in basketball around the world and in Europe compared to the US, I think this is a biased opinion, but this is something that could help players and coaches get the most out of the time that they’re able to spend on the court or with sports live away from the court.

Mike Klinzing: It’s interesting in terms of kids viewing habits, right? When it comes to sports, I know that my kids certainly don’t spend as much time watching sports as I do. My son’s going to be a senior, is a [00:51:00] senior in high school this year, and he doesn’t spend the amount of time watching. I mean, if I think about myself at age almost 18 and how much basketball or other sports I had watched on TV compared to how much basketball or sports that he’s watched at this point.

And not that it’s great to be sitting in front of the TV watching sports all the time, but I think that I just watched so much more and there’s no way that watching sports, even if I wasn’t watching it necessarily from the perspective of, which I was sometimes, but. Many other times I wasn’t watching it with the idea of, Hey, I’m improving my basketball IQ, just almost by osmosis.

If you’re watching a lot of soccer or you’re watching a lot of basketball, it just makes sense that you’re going to start to recognize patterns and cues. And some of the things that we talked about just because you’re seeing it so much more. And I think kids today, they just, A, they don’t watch as much sports, especially not when you’re [00:52:00] talking about like full games.

Most kids I think today probably consume a lot of TikTok and YouTube highlight videos and that kind of thing. And that’s kind of where they get their news and follow these different leagues and teams. And it’s just, it’s not quite the same. And so I think when you start talking about what SportsLab360 can provide, you’re talking about sort of that opportunity for kids to be able to see and visualize, and then consequently, as a result of that, have their IQ improved.

Maybe in a way that, look, this technology wasn’t available when I was a kid growing up in the 1980s, but I was watching games. And so in a way, it’s almost like this is a replacement for kids who were watching a lot more sports. They were when I was a kid and I can see as I went through and did the module that you guys have online, like I can see the value for a kid who is trying to learn those concepts of I learned it on the practice floor and now I come home and I’m able to do that and I’m able to [00:53:00] internalize it.

I’m able to see what my coach was talking about on the floor. And now I can, just like my teacher teaches me a math problem at school, now I can come home and do a couple of practice problems and that’s what helps to cement it for me. So now I can apply it and it becomes part of my toolbox as a math student, or in this case as a basketball or soccer player.

So I definitely see the value in it. What’s the marketing plan? How are you guys trying to get this out in front of players, coaches, parents, and who do you see as being the primary market both today and then moving forward.

NIck Manzoni: Yeah, great question. I mean, I tried to kind of take the approach that I used in soccer and at least what worked and apply it to basketball.

And so far it’s been fairly consistent as far as what, what worked there has worked here. But I mean, not having like I said, not coming from a basketball background myself, I think I relied a lot on the soccer network I had and that ultimately was leveraged about as much as it could have been.

[00:54:00] So that without having that in basketball I’ve had to try to make up for that in other ways. So at a basic level we do get in touch with as many high school basketball coaches as we can find. As you know, getting on any sorts of podcasts is great for getting the word out.

I’ve run plenty of Facebook ads. Those usually do pretty well when I’m targeting like individual players and parents. Not necessarily amazing when I’m trying to get it in front of coaches. What’s worked really well with soccer has been so, and this was especially true during the pandemic and we have kept most of the partnerships going past that point too, but I’ll partner up with so in soccer there’s state associations and I’ll partner up with Cal North, for example, and we will, SportsLab360 will offer one of our modules per month for them to share with their members. So whether it’s a state association [00:55:00] or we work with soccer parenting association is a big one. Those groups are always looking for unique and valuable, engaging content to share.

So we partner up with them. It’s kind of just a symbiotic relationship where we give them value in that we are allowing them to share our module with all of their membership. And then obviously on our end it gets our name out to their membership and we’ll say Hey, if you want to sign up and get access to all the content, use coupon code soccer parenting for 15 percent off or whatever it is.

So that’s an angle that I’ve started to go down in basketball to be transparent. It’s been more difficult to get my foot in the door without putting down X amount of dollars up front to kind of cement the partnership. There’s been a couple of groups that I’ve started to work with that see the value in our content and see that it’s different and know that it’s not necessarily something they could easily create because of the engaging [00:56:00] and 3D animated and interactive element of it. So we’re kind of continuing to push in that direction. And then there’s also the potential of working with someone more formally at a partnership level where they have established themselves in basketball.

They have a network in a few different buckets. And we can go that route since that’s not something that I personally have in basketball. So yeah, I think the main thing is trying to continue to find different groups and different companies, et cetera, that might be interested in using SportsLab360 modules to educate their players, whether that’s a once a month thing or some other sort of partnership. But yeah, I mean, my experience in basketball compared to soccer, it seems like the ceiling in basketball is higher. And like I said, I think SportsLab360 is even better suited for basketball.

But I think it’s a little bit tougher to break through. And  [00:57:00] I think after six or seven months in the space I’ve realized that enough where I’m starting to look at some options of getting people involved who have existing companies or existing followings and  have used kind of them as a leap.

So, yeah, I’m learning more about it every day. It’s still fairly new as far as the basketball market goes. But we’ve had some pretty good responses to be honest at the high school coach level. And that has allowed us to put a little bit more into getting it out there to individual players and clubs and other organizations that could use it.

Mike Klinzing: Yeah, no, that makes complete sense. And I think, like you said, it’s a slow build, especially when you’re coming from a different sport and you’re transitioning into a new area. I think anytime you do that, it’s always slow. And then it’s interesting just to hear you talking about kind of the different things that you’ve tried.

I know that over the course of the time we’ve been doing the podcast, [00:58:00] like, you’re always just trying to see if there are different ways that you can get it in front of. More people and you try different things and some of them work and some of them don’t work quite as well. And you just kind of have to keep experimenting.

And that’s part of, I think, the fun of having a business or doing a podcast or whatever it is when you’re, when you’re trying to figure stuff out for yourself and see what works and see what doesn’t. It’s always challenging. Before we wrap up, Nick, is there anything that we missed that we didn’t talk about that you want to touch on before we give people an idea of where they can find you guys and what you’re doing and share all your contact and website and all that stuff?

But is there anything that we missed before we do that?

NIck Manzoni: I don’t think so. I mean, I guess I’ll mention we any coaches that are interested, we run free trials for 10 days so they can get in, they can add their players, they can use it exactly as they would if they were fully subscribed.

And we [00:59:00] don’t even take credit card payment at that point, it’s basically 10 days jump on. You know, if you like it, stay on. If not, thanks for using it. And then we also have a setup where we can share access to the modules in our library for coaches who want to give it a kind of pan through before using it.

But no, otherwise, I don’t think there’s anything else as far as the what or the why. But yeah, like I mentioned, we’re still new in the space and any coaches listening to this who are interested in any way, I guess I’ll just say kind of open to whatever avenues might exist for whether it’s marketing or whether it’s building the best possible products. So an open book. And in a second, as we go through where you can find me we can talk through what ways we can get engaged.

Mike Klinzing: All right. We got the what, we got the why, give us the where, how do we find it? Where is it? Give us all the contact information, social media, website, everything that people need to be able to go and check this [01:00:00] thing out.

NIck Manzoni: Yeah, so website is we built it differently from the soccer one to the basketball one. So it’s www.sportslab360basketball.com. We’re on Twitter, Facebook Instagram I think all of those are just @SportsLab360 basketball. And then not on TikTok yet unfortunately, but YouTube is a big one.

To be honest, we get a good amount of people finding us through our YouTube page, which is SportsLab360Basketball. Otherwise, yeah, I mean, my email and my phone number are right on the website. So, any coaches wanting to reach out and chat about it, they can literally find my cell phone on the website.

So, I’m not hard to find.

Mike Klinzing: Awesome. Nick, cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to jump on with us. Really appreciate it. I think you have a good thing going here. And I think coaches that are out there, if you’re listening, please go on there, take a look at what Nick [01:01:00] and his team have built.

I think you’re going to find it to be a valuable resource. So again, thank you, Nick. Really appreciate it. And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.