NELSON TERROBA – TEXAS LEGENDS, NBA G LEAGUE AFFILIATE OF THE DALLAS MAVERICKS, ASSOCIATE HEAD COACH & DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR – EPISODE 734

Website – https://texas.gleague.nba.com/ http://hoops101nation.com/

Email – nterroba@gmail.com

Twitter – @coachterroba

Nelson Terroba is the Associate Head Coach and Defensive Coordinator for the Texas Legends, NBA G League Affiliate of the Dallas Mavericks.  He has been with the Legends since 2019.

Terroba has coached at the professional level in both the United States and Canada for the Saskatchewan Rattlers, Saint John Riptide, Erie Bayhawks, and Bakersfield Jam.

Nelson is the founder of Hoops 101, a training-based organization that features summer basketball camps, advanced skills academies, and select teams.  He previously served as the facility & basketball director for the Premier Athletic Complex in Leander, Texas.

Terroba started his coaching career at the University of Texas where he first served as a student manager and later became the special assistant to the head coach under Rick Barnes.  He later served as the Head Boys’ Basketball Coach at his alma mater, Dripping Springs High School in Texas and later was an assistant at Austin High School before getting an opportunity to move into the professional ranks as a coach.

Nelson has also worked with both PGC basketball and Snow Valley Basketball School in various capacities.

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Be sure to take some notes as you listen to this episode with Nelson Terroba, the Associate Head Coach and Defensive Coordinator for the Texas Legends, NBA G League Affiliate of the Dallas Mavericks.

What We Discuss with Nelson Terroba

• Growing up in a Spanish speaking household learning the game from his brother
• “Some of the best lessons I learned growing up was from playing pickup ball with these old grumpy old men.”
• Being able to make choices and love the game without a parent being involved
• Why he loved playing for his high school coach
• The coaches that inspired him to think about becoming a coach
• Writing a letter to Rick Barnes at Texas asking if he could be involved in the program and getting an opportunity to work their summer camp thanks to Ed Khotala
• How the recruitment of TJ Ford helped him get a job on the staff at Texas
• “It’s important to understand for all coaches and especially coaches that aspire to move up, you really need advocates.”
• “There’s too many things going on in a program sometimes for the head coach to know what everyone is contributing.”
• How being let go at Texas after a year impacted him in the moment and moving forward
• “I am very, very committed to giving people direct, clear feedback about anything that could prevent them from getting what they want.”
• Being in a place that is a good fit for you as a player or as a coach
• Don’t fear the uncomfortable conversations
• Getting the head coaching job at his alma mater Dripping Springs High School after leaving University of Texas
• The lessons he learned after being let go at Dripping Springs
• Building connections with all players not just the ones that are easy to coach
• Moving on to Austin High School as an assistant
• His first pro coaching opportunity with the Bakersfield Jam
• “The players at our level need coaching and they want coaching and they appreciate coaching.”
• What matters most at the pro level is that you are competent and can help layers get better and reach their dreams
• Coaching AAU Basketball out of the PAC facility in Leander, Texas
• What he learned as a coach working Snow Valley Basketball Camps in California
• “This last chapter of my coaching life in the pros is all based on relationships that I formed before this chapter ever existed.”
• “You can’t fake it with pros.”
• “You can’t fake your knowledge, you can’t fake your command over the curriculum. You can’t fake your voice and you can’t fake your authenticity and you don’t need to yell, that doesn’t work either. You have to teach, you have to correct, you have to do it calmly, you have to do it consistently and you have to earn the respect.”
• “Sometimes you’re granted positional respect, but in the pros it’s not that way. You have to earn it through your competence.”
• What makes the G League special
• The challenge of creating long term job security
• “If we can teach somebody some things that they can take with them, they’re forever theirs.”

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THANKS, NELSON TERROBA

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TRANSCRIPT FOR NELSON TERROBA – NBA G LEAGUE TEXAS LEGENDS ASSOCIATE HEAD COACH & DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR – EPISODE 734

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here with my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight, and we are pleased to welcome Nelson Terroba, assistant coach for the Texas Legends of the NBA G League and affiliate of the Dallas Mavericks. Nelson, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.

[00:00:15] Nelson Terroba: Mike, really appreciate you and Jason having me.It’s an honor to be here, I guess, thanks to Coach Bonewitz, Coach Cook, Andre Cook, those two guys were on before me. They’re some local Austin Austin coaches who spread my name to you, but it’s an honor to speak and hopefully we can help some folks and some coaches on the pod tonight.

[00:00:34] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. Stan and Andre we’re two great guests. Both had nothing but great things to say about you. So looking forward to learning more about your career. Let’s start by going back in time to when you were a kid. Tell us a little bit about your first exposure to the game of basketball, what that was like, what you remember.

[00:00:52] Nelson Terroba: I have to give my brother, my big brother all the credit. I was thinking about this the other day.  Well, so my dad is from Cuba, my mom is from Columbia. Alright. So grew up in a Spanish speaking household. And the only reason I share that is just that we didn’t kind of grow up with a generational kind of American approach to sports.

So my role model was my brother, because he was older than me and so he started playing basketball when he was my first recollection of basketball is probably when he was in the sixth grade. And I would’ve been in like the second or third grade and I’d just go watch him play.

We were at like a private Catholic elementary school, St. Mary’s. And he’d play and I’d just go watch. And I was really intrigued by it. Of course my big brother was who I looked up to. So I thought that’s something I want to do too. So that’s kind of my first interaction with the game personally is just watching my Big brother play.  Chasing him around.

[00:01:47] Mike Klinzing: How much do you feel like that had an influence on your love for the game and your competitiveness? Because I know that I wasn’t, I never had a brother, so I only had a sister. So growing up and, and watching my friends who did have brothers, I always think of them just going at each other and competing at whatever it was that they were doing.

How much of that do you think ended up having an influence on you as you got older in terms of your competitiveness?

[00:02:16] Nelson Terroba: To be honest, probably a lot in the sense that my brother was always the best defender on the court. He always picked up full court. He always was just a pest on the ball. You know, really pressuring the ball, really disruptive, really annoying to anybody who was going up against him.

Took charges, did all the stuff, the dirty work. So again, that was my model. And honestly, so much of my basketball character and the way I appreciate and respect the quality of a player and how much they give to the game is just kind of still rooted in those starting points with him.

You know it’s just defense First. I became a defensive player when I played, I took charges. I wanted to win in the margins and it’s also spilled over into how I coach and how I approach the game and kind of that grit, I guess, about the game that I appreciate.

[00:03:11] Mike Klinzing: When you’re growing up with the game, was coaching something that you thought about while you were still playing the game? Was it something that you were always interested in or was it something that came to you later on in life as you got into high school and college?

[00:03:28] Nelson Terroba: You know, I did always like playing, but I also liked the coaching piece of it, you know what I mean?

I always liked just helping teammates like just giving ’em a tip here and there. That was something I saw. Or just executing the plan, just the way coach wanted us to how was that Coach’s kind of almost like a coach’s kid type approach. Very much a pleaser with regard to making sure I did what the coach wanted.

So yeah, I think that’s kind of how my approach was to the game.

[00:04:02] Mike Klinzing: You get an opportunity when you’re at Texas as a student to work as a student manager with the basketball team under Coach Rick Barnes. Was that something that you went to school knowing that you wanted to do, or is that something where you showed up on campus and they were looking for managers or you talked to somebody?

How did that process come to pass.

[00:04:23] Nelson Terroba: You know, I do want to answer that one. I want to say one thing though about my childhood just since we’re probably moving to chapters here, but I do want to acknowledge that that’s my first recollection was, was watching my brother. But as I played, I’m going to give a shout out to one of my first youth coaches, which was Jim Gammage.

And my friend Paul Gammage is a coach in the Austin area. His dad was kind of our fifth grade coach just years ago and it’s funny, I want to make sure it shot him out because you know, all of, all of it kind of started there a little bit in terms of first organized basketball.

I remember. I hadn’t scored a point, like in, by the third or fourth game I was kind of like this just a little floor general, pass the ball, do all the, you know what I mean? All this stuff. I hadn’t scored a point. And Coach Gammage was like, he and I don’t even I do remember this, I remember he tried to set a triple screen for.

To just get a freaking bucket. Right. That’s awesome. And I still remember it and it didn’t work. Probably more from like my lack of skill, but you know, it’s just funny because I know you’re doing youth coaching, you’re doing the camps that you do and you’ve devoted your life to the game in teaching the game the right way to youth.

That what Jim Gammage did that would be, Hmm, golly, I hate to say it, something like 38 years ago or maybe thirty, thirty five years ago, we’ll call it . Golly, that’s tough to say. But anyways, but we’ll call it 35 years ago. What he did as a volunteer coach a dad who did it the right way.

He coached our Summer league teams. He would open the gym on Sundays we had open gym on Sundays growing up in middle school, high school that was always the most, like I would not miss an open gym on Sunday in Dripping Springs for anything. It was two to 4:00 PM every Sunday.

And then during during the summers we opened up Monday, Tuesday, Thursday nights. So but Jim Gammage was a coach, youth coach, but he was a guy like and I grew up in a small community, kind of outskirts of Austin, Texas. So back then it was small and kind of rural, like a small town.

Things that you don’t get to see nowadays, but just our head coach, coach Shelton would give, you know Jim Gammage, the keys and he would open up the gym on Sundays and just be old men and young guys trying to play together. And another thing, you talked about the kind of grit and the character of the game and everything.

I know that growing up and playing in those open gyms, and I mean, you may, you may have Jason and Mike, you guys may probably have a similar situation maybe growing up, but you know what, some of the best lessons I learned growing up was from these old grumpy old men, you know? Absolutely. They would literally, they would just give you a look if you didn’t feed them in the post and you took a stupid shot, right.

They would bark at you and say, don’t do that again, ball. And if you took a bad shot, they’d bark at you. If you didn’t play defense or get back, they’d yell at you. You know what I mean? Like, and it was kind of like a nice way to learn about accountability within the game. Not from a coach, but just from somebody who was like, no, that’s not how you play the game.

You know what I mean? Like, the game has standards. It doesn’t have to come from a coach. These old folks are kind of the protectors of the game, and they kind of in a, in their own way, kind of taught us a lot before we even had to get to coaches.

[00:07:56] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. It’s so different than the way kids grow up today, right?

Where from the time they’re 6, 7, 8 years old, everything that they do is with a coach. Everything they do is with an adult. They’re not mm-hmm. on the playground. They’re rarely on their driveway or at the playground. It’s just, I, I say all the time, Nelson, that I grew up in an era where if I wanted to play basketball, I went and play basketball, and I went and found a game.

And when I was younger, it was in my driveway or ride my bike across neighborhoods to go and play one-on-one with my buddies. And then as I got older, I’d hop in the car and drive around the Cleveland area to find a pickup game, whether it was at a gym on a Tuesday night, or it was at a playground on this day or whatever.

You kind of knew where the players were going to be. And that pickup basketball scene was huge. And it was huge everywhere. And now, you tell a kid that, hey, I was a pretty good high school player and college player and I used to play basketball outside all the time. And now they look at you like you’re crazy.

Like what do you mean play basketball outside? I mean, no, because nobody does it right? Nobody does it anymore. Nobody does it.

[00:08:58] Nelson Terroba: And you know, there’s reasons why, obviously I understand like why that from a liability perspective and all that kind of stuff, you can’t do this, you can’t do that.

Can’t get keys out to just community members and have been a high school coach obviously. So I know all these pieces, but I just know that you know, not for the sake of just being the old guys that just pine over what was great. But just literally looking at it from just a neutral perspective of what we were able to get from the way the conditions were for us.

You know, we were able, I think to speak for myself I suppose, but just able to make a choice to go play the game. In an uncomfortable place. Like, in other words, I don’t know who I’m going to be playing with here today. You know, it’s pickup game. It’s old guys, young guys learning about, I hate playing with that guy.

He’s selfish. You know, that guy’s always fun to play with. He gets everybody involved. You know, that old man can barely move, but he makes himself useful by using his voice. You know, like you can just, like, there was a lot of lessons that we didn’t even know we were learning that you can easily now, I can easily like just go back and just catalog each one of those things very easily.

But you know, I think that’s a big part of me growing up with the game is as I said, my parents weren’t you know generational athletes. They were just working all the time. So my choice to involve myself in basketball and to be a coach and everything with basketball and everything with sport and for my brother and me was always.

It was all our own, you know what I mean? It was not, our parents had no influence over that at all. And they were supportive and all that stuff I say in a positive light. But I also think it was great that those were choices that were just made by me because I really loved the game, you know?

[00:10:48] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. And you don’t see, you don’t see that as much anymore. I mean, a lot of what you have is parents driven in terms. Hey, you’re going to go play this sport because kids can’t just go out in the neighborhood and pick up a bat in a ball or pick up a football and toss it around or go shoot baskets at the neighbor’s house.

It, it’s just not the way it is now. If you want to get a kid involved in a sport, you have to sign ’em up for this league or that lesson or this group. And it’s just completely different. And I always say there’s benefits to both ways. And I can see, as you said, there’s, there’s reasons why the game has shifted in the direction that it has.

And there are certainly positives to both systems. I think the system that you and I grew up under and the system that we have today. I know, just speaking personally from my own perspective, I’m so glad that I grew up in the era that I did because the basketball that I played, with, as you described it the curmudgeonly old guys or the, the guys that would, when I was a 13, 14 year old, that would take mercy on me and pick me up for a, a game and then try to try to teach me how to play.

Eventually then as I got, as then, eventually as I got better and, and then I became a guy that people wanted to play with instead of a just a little kid that was hanging around trying to, trying to get in any game that I could, like those moments and those different people that I got to meet of all different ages and backgrounds, like that stuff to me is invaluable.

And I had some good moments as a player, as a high school player, as a college player, but a lot of my great memories when I think about the game of basketball, so many of my good memories aren’t necessarily from those organized, structured environments. I have just as many good memories from the pickup basketball, both in terms of the people I met and just the idea of hanging out at the courts and being there for 2, 3, 4 hours and coming home so tired from running up and down on the pavement like those.

Those memories to me can never be replaced.

[00:12:44] Nelson Terroba: No, a hundred percent. And so you know, that is I kind of wanted to mention those type of folks in that part of my upbringing with the game. You know, and of course I played through middle school, high school there, Dripping Springs High School.

You know, one of the reasons I got into coaching and I had to give my high school coaches some some credit as well. Coach Shelton was my varsity coach. Coaching was. JV coach, my first middle school coach was coach McDaniel. But these guys you know, again, I can see it now, but one thing I can easily see now that maybe some coaches get wrong because we have so much access to information now we how to run a pistol or a two-sided break or peel switch.

I mean there’s so much stuff that everybody can have access to, so the coaches are more informed. But I’ll say this about Coach Shelton. My varsity coach is just, I always had fun playing. I always felt prepared. I felt like he did a great job of not really bogging us out with too much of the details of the opponent and really kind of focusing on what we were doing.

Which is, as I’ve kind of grown and matured over time, like I have a kind of a respect for the discipline to be able to just pick and choose and just really narrow our focus and just focus on ourselves more. He was really a great high school coach. It was enjoyable, he didn’t scream and yell.

He was a calm, but controlled and stern coach, but like, he didn’t feel uneasy. He never hardly raised his voice. He told you what we were going to do, explained it clearly calmly. He redirected when we didn’t do it right. And so I think that that’s something that we talk about coaches and stuff like that, that’s just great coaching when you have enough command over the content and enough command over yourself that you can still run a tight ship but not have to scream and yell to do it all the time.

You know, I think that’s pretty noble. So I want to acknowledge that as well.

[00:14:52] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, absolutely. I think when you look at what anyone does as a coach, there’s so much influence, right? On the early coaches that you had in your career, especially when you think about yourself as a young coach where you don’t have very much experience.

I know that, just speaking again from my own perspective, that when I first started coaching, basically everything that I knew as a coach came from my high school coach and my college coach, and that’s kind of what you do. Mm-hmm. until you either a learn that, hey, there’s, there’s other things out there that I could do and I better learn and educate myself about the game.

And it’s funny, we were talking in our previous interview with Tom Harrington from Buckeye High School, and I just said I, I thought I knew more at age 22 when I got my very first coaching job than I do now. At age 52, I, I’m, I’m way less knowledgeable today about the game than I was at, at age 22, because again, coming off of a playing career, you think, man, I, I know pretty much everything there is to know about this game.

And I think there’s, there’s some ego involved and you kind of get yourself into this position where you think, man, I, I, I know everything there is to know about the game. And as you get into it longer, obviously, you know that there’s so many things that you can never, you can never learn enough, let’s put it that way.

There’s always somebody out there that’s innovating and trying something new and the game is evolving. And so as a coach, I think that’s one of the things that when you look back and hearing you talk about the guys that coached you when you were a player, when you were a young guy, and the influence that they had on you, I think that those are really important influences.

I’m sure they were for you moving through your career.

[00:16:29] Nelson Terroba: They were. And so that’s kind of the last thing I’ll say why coaching, and you kind of mentioned when I played, did I have an interest in coaching? And as I kept playing and being on teams, I definitely did.

I  kind of think about it. Our senior year we had a really good team. We were district champs. We lost in our first round playoff game. You know, we thought we win State like every other high school kid. But like, I love that team, like that team. I’m obviously still good friends with people on that team, but I love that team and just the connection we had just as like there’s just something about what we do and being on a team and I don’t know how to explain it to folks who aren’t on them, but like, it’s just something special.

So that really stuck out to me in terms of something I always want to be a part of. But you know, I went to school, I went to University of Texas. You mentioned kind of getting into that, but. I enrolled in the University of Texas. And I got into the business school cause everybody I talked to said you’re too smart to get to be a teacher and a coach.

You’re not going to make enough money doing that. You know, it’s a waste of like say your brain or whatever I guess to get a business degree.

[00:17:49] Mike Klinzing: You can do whatever you, you can do just about anything with a business degree. Yeah, right.

[00:17:53] Nelson Terroba: So I thought the same way. But as I got to University of Texas, you know there was actually the girls coach at Dripping Springs who was very successful name was Coach English.

A very good coach. And so it’s interesting that, that I was shooting in the gym after school one day as a graduated. And then his office had a window that looked down into, or just looked out into the court. It was the first floor. And he called me he kind of came out.

I said, Hey, you got a second Nelson? I said, sure, go ahead. And, and, and talked to him and he said, Hey, have you ever thought about coaching? And I said, yeah, actually I have coach. You know, he says, well, I just think if you ever thought about it, I think you’d be a really good coach. And he just said that base thought, I guess, watching me play or watching me like even on the bench or the, just the way I carried myself and pick up who knows what he thought he saw.

But you know, that’s him saying that to me was big in a sense. It just made me think. And I was a very respected coach and not even my own coach, but just for him to take the time to just say that to me was it stood out. You know, my first experience coaching was when I went to the University of Texas as a freshman first year in college, my old high school coach, coach Shelton asked me if I would be the middle school off season basketball coach.

So I, that entailed kind of coming to the school every day, something like two to 4:00 PM and I just ran the entire middle school off-season program. So something that was neat for me, just when I was a school in, in school as a middle schooler, in that same school district, it was smaller.

So as a young player that didn’t play football we never had an option. It was a basketball off-season. So for me it was a really cool thing to be able to to actually just kind of give something to players that were just basketball only players in the great state of Texas which is so football oriented that that connected with me because I knew that that’s something I wish I had when I was in middle school.

So I did that for two years. And then we talked about kind of how I got to the University of Texas, I think, from there. And so what had happened is Coach English who was the basketball coach, who had kind of first reached out to me when I was a senior and kind of encouraged me to think about coaching.

He was running a basketball camp that summer, and I attended and coached it and helped him out there. But as part of that camp, he had a daily end of camp message relating to not putting off your dreams and your hopes for another day if you can help it you know, resonated with me.

So I ended up, I had been reading a book called a March to Madness by John Feinstein, which was a season chronically in the ACC for a season. And so he spent time with North Carolina, Duke Clemson. So I remember reading a chapter about Clemson with Coach Barnes when he was at Clemson.

And I just the way they portrayed Coach Barnes just resonated with me and I was excited for him to be at the University of Texas. They had just hired him that spring. So Coach English’s message at the camp really kind of lit a fire under me, I guess. And I just went home that day and wrote a letter to Coach Barnes at the University of Texas.

And I just wrote a letter, just said, Hey, I don’t know I don’t know how I could, but I would just like to find a way to be involved just to observe practice. I’ll work for free sweep the floors. Doesn’t matter to me. I just want to be part of the program and learn. You know, it’s a dream of mine to be a division one basketball coach. And to be the, I mean, the dream was to be the head coach at the University of Texas. So that’s kind of how I wrote that letter. And that I as I said before you know, about four days later at my home there was a message on the answering machine blinking red light.

And I hit the button. And as I said before, we didn’t we didn’t have voicemail back then, no cell phones, so you got the messages at the house. But I hit the button and I played the message and it was,  coach Kohtala assistant coach from the University of Texas, Ed Koala.

And he said, Coach Barnes, read your letter. We’d love you to come in work summer camp. And right when I heard the message, I played it four times. I literally kind of sprinted around the house two or three times, I think out of excitement and . And so that’s the beginning of how I got involved in University of Texas.

I ended up working summer camp. And that was the first step in kind of becoming a student manager.

[00:22:39] Mike Klinzing: What was your relationship like with the coaches on staff as a manager? I know we’ve talked to a number of guys who have gotten into coaching through the manager route, and a lot of ’em have different experiences in terms of how much access they had with coaches, how much time they spent talking with the guys on the staff versus, versus kind of just interacting and doing their tasks.

Like, what was your relationship like with the staff?

[00:23:06] Nelson Terroba: You know, again, this is kind of like a big shout out podcast. I do want to acknowledge Coach Kohtala, you know in particular, because you know, what I learned later, and this is not to disrespect the process for Coach Barnes anyway, but like what I learned later is Coach Barnes probably never did read that letter.

It was just, coach Kohtala had read that letter as the Assistant coach , and liked he, he knew the kind of person or the kind of whatever, that he wanted to kind of he was in charge of the managers, so he knew what he wanted. And so then that’s that was my first trial.

So I mean, I would not be speaking to you today. I wouldn’t have had a chance at the University of Texas and kind of got accelerated on my path there if it wasn’t for Coach Kohtala, just for whatever reasons finding that interest in my letter. But you talk about connections on staff, you know that was great for me.

I mean, coach Kohtala was a good mentor for me. There was a coach there, Russell Springman, who is now at Oral Roberts. And he was a young coach who was kind of a graduate assistant or special assistant. He was very instrumental in me, kind of as a mentor to me. Got involved with summer camp there and he kind of eventually put me in charge of summer camp when I was you know, first graduating from being a manager.

So Russell Springman was a big mentor for me at that time. And you know, you’re right. I mean, just connecting with the coaches coach Cousins was great. He was kind of a prankster, but you know, was fun. And lastly, you know my second towards the end of my tenure there as a manager, Rob Lanier came in as an assistant and he was great.

Coach Lanier, Todd Wright, the strength and conditioning coach was a big mentor as well. And he ended up, he’s now with the Los Angeles Clippers, I think. Their strength and performance, strength and performance director. So he’s in the nba, but coach who’s here at SMU in Dallas now, he was a big mentor for me as well.

So yeah, it’s a lot of time with those coaches. Just spending time with him was, was real instrumental for me growing up.

[00:25:10] Mike Klinzing: So you mentioned earlier that ultimately at this point in your career, your goal is to be a division one college head coach. And so as you start looking around, as you’re coming to the end of your time in college, you’re about ready to graduate.

What are you thinking about in terms of your next step when you’re, you’re wanting to get into coaching, I know you go and then you become the special assistant to, to Coach Barnes there at Texas, but what, what’s the process like? What are you starting to do to sort of plan out and map out what the next steps are going to be in your career?

[00:25:45] Nelson Terroba: Yeah. You know what it is, is that, first of all, I switched over from the business school, which I mentioned earlier. Now. I switched over to education and I was, became a journalism major. And cause I always, I kind of thought if I didn’t, it didn’t work out with basketball, I would like to write about it or cover it on TV or something.

So I was a journalism major history minor and getting my teaching certificate. So basically as my manager hood was kind of expiring and I was head manager and all that stuff. I kind of had another semester. I kind of was just trying to stretch it out. You know what I mean? I didn’t really want to leave .

[00:26:26] Mike Klinzing: Who wants to leave? Who wants to leave college? Nelson. Come on, man. I know, man. Hope. That’s my, my daughter went to college this year for the first time. So she’s a freshman, so she’s just about finishing up her first semester and we I’ve been down now to visit her a time or two, whatever, and you kind of she’s talking about her schedule and what she’s doing every day and this and that, and I’m like, man, can I go back?

I want to go back to college again. And my, my son, who’s a junior in high school, he’s like, he’s like dad, he’s like Meredith. She, she doesn’t really have much to do, does she? She’s got a lot of free time down there. Meanwhile he’s got like seven high school classes and he’s playing on the basketball team.

He’s doing a million things and she’s like wandering around campus doing who knows what. So yeah, I can understand why you might want to.

[00:27:11] Nelson Terroba: You know, and it’s funny, but when you’re in college, I mean, when we were in college, I didn’t even think that we had that much time. No, no.

You didn’t process it that way at all. Oh, you have no clue. So, yeah, so I wanted to get my teaching certificate and do my student teaching. So I stretched out another year and semester. And then just Coach Lanier was really instrumental.

He ended up moving on to Sienna, and kind of on his way. But I helped coach Lanier was very what do I want to say? Kind of a visionary. And what I mean by that is when he was there, he started recruiting TJ Ford to the University of Texas. And I remember him telling me if we get TJ Ford to come to the University of Texas, all the other big players in Texas will come here.

And so I helped him with that and I would help, you know I was a magazine journalist guy, so you know, I would help him with some creative stuff on Photoshop. And we were doing stuff like Built Ford Tough and magazine coverage with TJ Ford and all that kind of stuff. Kind of before that was being done that was kind of, he was ahead of the game a little bit.

Right. So I think my work in the office and I would go in, I would help with Mailouts, I would help with back then we’d have Mailouts and we’d have the handwritten the stuff, we’d stuff the envelopes and we’d send that out to all the recruits. So I would do that.

That’s kind of what I would do as a manager. I’d go into the office and I’d help with recruiting mailouts and I started saying, Hey, I could help with doing some other stuff. And so I got involved with that. So I think that as Coach Deir left was moving on to his head coaching job, there was a spot there.

And they ended up, he ended up really going to bat for me and Todd Wright as well, and said you know, Nelson should get it, he’s a guy who would be a good guy to, to bring on as a, I guess, on staff as a special assistant. So that’s kind of how I got my start from moving from manager over to being on staff.

[00:29:16] Mike Klinzing: What was it, what was that transition like in terms of the relationship with Coach Barnes?

[00:29:22] Nelson Terroba: Well the story is not like a fairytale necessarily. And I say the truth because I know it helps coaches, you know what I mean? There’s a lot of young coaches out there that aspire to be in big places.

Yep. And you know, why not, right? I, I get it. I had a good, I think my relationship with Coach Barnes was distant. and respectful in the sense that he was a very imposing figure, you know what I mean? He was a great coach, you know what I mean? He’s really intense. And he was nice off the court and welcoming.

But I didn’t have like a tight connection with Coach Barnes. It was more like I was more connected to the assistants. Right. That makes sense. I mean, and I was more like yes sir. Of course mean, say like, you know how the head coach, the head coach is, you know what I mean? Like it’s scary the head coach back then.

That’s scary. Like something, yeah, yeah. That’s okay. Like head coach should be that way. Right? I think it should be like, there’s just like this, I don’t know, separation there where you’re like, okay, that’s the head coach. Lemme push things through the assistants. The assistants take care of all that stuff.

So I didn’t have a close connection with Coach Barnes per se. It wasn’t. Adversarial or anything. It just wasn’t really close. And so I did that for a year. I was in charge of summer camp, did video exchange. Back then we had vhs. I would send out FedEx envelopes and we would actually exchange VHS tapes.

Which people nowadays would don’t even have an idea about that. No idea what that was like. Yeah, no, we got hudl. Now we can just do whatever we need. It’s amazing. Right? But I had to do that. So that’s what I did. I did summer camp. I helped with other stuff, the recruiting stuff as well, the mailouts.

So that was kind of my role. And so what happened at University of Texas is that coach Lanier went away. Some new coaches came in and you know, it’s a lesson I learned. So I think that. It’s important to understand for all coaches and especially coaches that aspire to move up, you really need advocates.

You know what I mean? Like, you need coaches who are up in those rooms right there next to that, that big dog who are singing your praises when the big dog has no idea what you’re doing. You know? Because there’s too many things going on in a program, right? For sometimes for the head coach to know what everyone is contributing.

So I had some really good assistants that were helpful up to that point. But when, when I think, when Coach Lanier left, that affected some of that, and you know, long story short you know, after one year as a special assistant coach Barnes said, Hey, listen, we’re kind of doing a budget cut and this position’s not going to exist.

And I say this I’m just being real transparent. I think he got some information about me. There was a perception that that I wasn’t working as hard or that I wasn’t as committed as I once was. And I tell you guys this andyour whole audience, and it really was, there was no change in me.

But I remember Coach Barnes talking to me once on a plane and saying, you know you don’t understand Nelson in this business, perception is reality. Yep. Yeah. And I said, . I said Mr. Whatever I just said, no, coach reality is reality. , which advice to the young coaches out there, just say, yes, sir.

Just say yes. Just say, right. Yeah. Just, just, yeah. Yeah. Coach, I got you. So I just, I think that there was a perception there that I wasn’t doing what I had once done and that trickled its way to the top. Again, I share the story with your audience because it’s not a perfect story, you know?

So basically I, at the age of, let’s say 22 I was young maybe 23 at this point. You know, my dream was to coach at the University of Texas. I had a little piece of paper in my dorm room that typed it out. I will coach basketball at the University of Texas and I know in a sense I got to do that.

I was just a special assistant, but I was  on staff and it was a dream. But at 23, 24 now you know, I was no longer a coach at the University of Texas. You know, my job wasn’t there. In a sense. I was fired from that job. And. So that was the first time in my life that I felt professional failure, you know?

And that was a dream dashed, right? University of Texas, division one. You know, I had to kind of put myself off the mat. One thing that I always appreciated, and it kind of we’re talking to coaches and everything else, it kind of shapes the way I am now as a coach still to this day, is that I never felt that that that when I was told I wouldn’t be brought back, I didn’t feel like I got specific feedback about what it was that I hadn’t done. So, even as I talked to Coach Barnes, I said, well, coach, tell me whatever it is. I haven’t done well. Okay. Anything, whatever it is I haven’t done, well, I’ll fix it. I’ll fix it right away and you’ll never have to correct me again. You know what I mean? And he really couldn’t, he couldn’t think of anything, you know what I mean?

And it was just like, well, we’re just going a different direction. And that always stuck out to me, and it’s it still shapes me today as a coach, is I never ask a player or a staff member or anyone else I know how important like I affect their future, you know what I mean?

So they have a dream. Doesn’t mean that I’m not going to be the guarantee of their dream, but I always want to make sure if I’m telling somebody or if something, somebody’s doing something that they’re not, that’s going to prevent them from attaining what they want. I don’t have a problem telling them that.

You know, like, listen, if you, if you don’t do this, you just have to understand you’re an assistant coach if you don’t clean up this video situation. You need to know that this is the type of thing that will affect your ability to be retained. You may get fired for this. This will affect your future.

You need to correct this or else it can affect you. You know what I mean? And I’m going to tell you exactly what you need to correct. You need to be on time, you need to communicate ahead of time. You need to do this. I am very, very committed to giving people direct, clear feedback about anything that could prevent them from getting what they want.

[00:36:31] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, it’s really important. I think that it’s a theme that’s run through a lot of our conversations with coaches when you talk about having those brutally honest conversations, whether it’s amongst yourselves with your staff, whether it’s with players. I think in my own personal experience, I know that when you’re in a situation where, , you have to have a difficult conversation.

If you try to put that off or you try to sugarcoat it or maybe soften the blow, yeah, you often end up doing a lot more damage than just coming out and saying what the truth is and what the situation is. Because so often when you don’t have the truth out there, then you have this sort of nebulous, empty space that gets filled up with a lot of stuff that’s not true, that ends up being toxic all the way around.

And I think that’s something that a lot of young coaches, and I know I can speak for myself as a young person, I think those were conversations that I probably wasn’t very good at. And I don’t know that I’m, I don’t know that I’m great at ’em today, but I do know that in any situation where I’ve tried to push off the truth, it hasn’t turned out the best.

You’re much better off. Having that conversation right up front, as you said. And then ultimately, when all the information, when all the cards are on the table, then everybody can figure out, okay, here’s where we’re at now, what do we do about it? And everybody can go about it from the same starting point.

Whereas if one side has the truth and the other side doesn’t, that just doesn’t work.

[00:38:07] Nelson Terroba: Yeah. And I think somebody might somebody might listen to this podcast and I’ll tell another story about me getting fired from high school. So it’s a miracle that I’m talking to you here since I got fired from University of Texas and my high school, my own hometown.

And the, the reason I share those stories is because it’s something I tell people that are young coaches. I said, listen, I hope you never get fired. Okay? But I hope also that you do get fired when you’re young. Because when you get fired you’re like, what in the world am I going to do? How can I survive this?

You know what I mean? and I was 24 after I kind of pulled myself off the mat there. One last piece about this since I’m you guys, it’s like my therapy session it sounds like, right?  That’s good. But that’s what we’re here for . No, but I mean,  I always want to acknowledge people. So Leslie Parks, who was the administrative assistant kind of Coach Barnes’ secretary there, got fired.

You know, coach called me in the office, got fired. I really didn’t see it coming. I just got done with camp. I’d done a good job, back then Deloss Dodds was the athletic director for the University of Texas. His grandson, Stephan had attended camp and you know, Dodds came up to me after the camp and said, this is the most organized, best camp we’ve been to here at the University of Texas.

Great job. You know? And so I just felt like I felt like I had done what my job had asked me to do and everything. I felt good. But then I got surprised. And so there I go.  So I remember I left the office with Coach Barnes, and I’m thinking like, who else in this office knows I’m fired?

You know,  does everybody know? am I the only one ? Right?

[00:39:58] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. They’re looking at you side eyed. Right?

[00:40:02] Nelson Terroba: Right. And what do I do? Do I clean out my office right now? I don’t even know. So, to that point, my blueprint had been do work your rear end off right.

And do right by people. Right. And you know, as I said, I didn’t know anybody going anywhere. I didn’t have any connections. I just did just worked hard and did things for the right reasons I thought, and that moved me up. So that was kind of like a big gut punch you know, make me think like, I guess that doesn’t work all the time in my head.

Right. I know now that does work, and that sometimes you can do all that just like a player can do all that. And sometimes it’s a numbers game. Sometimes there’s some things beyond our control. It’s a fit situation. And, and when you’re young as a player or a coach, this idea of fit doesn’t ever come into the equation.

You think it’s just about kind of just do right or do it the right way. And that’s always part of it. You have to do that. But you also learn over time that you have to be in a place that that’s a good fit. That what you do they value and what what your leadership values is, what you you’re about.

So I say that to say, I pulled myself off the mat, Leslie Parks, I’m all kind of messed up in my office trying to figure out what to do. Call my brother, tell him, man I’m in tears. You know, I mean, it’s the first time I’ve been fired. And you know, I come back in the office and kind of slink into the office,

And Leslie to her credit, I always appreciate this. She came into the office to my office you know, I was kind of getting some things and she just said Hey we tried with Coach. We told him all the stuff you do behind the scenes. But sometimes when coach gets something in his head it’s hard to kind of change his mind.

But again, the reason I share that story with y’all is because I always make sure that if somebody’s done a nice job, and this happens all the time in our industry and they get let go. Or it’s a player who’s done a nice job and they get cut, and sometimes it’s beyond their control and they did everything they should do and they did it well.

I always know how important it is to look that person in the eye and say, you know what? You did a really good job. You did what you needed to do here. This is just something that’s beyond your timing. You know? And that made a big deal to me with Leslie doing that. And, and I still do it to this day, but I share those two stories because in a weird way, those really bad kind of traumatic things being fired and all this stuff just really shaped me into the type of coach and leader.  I wanted to be. I wanted to be real. I didn’t fear any longer the uncomfortable conversation, right? Because I knew the alternative to that was they wouldn’t know and then they would end up losing their job anyways, or losing their position that they wanted. So I just knew in my head, like, and that’s how I tell ’em, I said, listen, I’d rather just tell you, because you’re either going to lose this thing in six months and you knew how it was going to come to you, or you’re going to be surprised and I’d rather you not be surprised, you know?

So I left from University of Texas and went back to my hometown, Dripping Springs. I decided that I just wanted to be a high school coach, you know I wanted to be about, I was still about the game, the purity of the game. I said, you know what I think I’m a better fit in high school.

I can just focus on teaching and focus on just being about the game. And so that’s, I went back to Dripping Springs, which is my hometown from there.

[00:44:10] Mike Klinzing: So how prepared do you feel you were to. Take that job and be back at your alma mater. I’m sure any coach that I’ve ever talked to that coaches at their alma mater has the a special feel.

It’s just, again, one more layer on top of just the job itself is the ability to be back in your hometown and to be able to represent a program that you went through. I mean, coaches take a lot of pride in that. So how do you feel, how prepared were you when you took that job and just tell us a little bit about what it was like coaching at your alma mater.

[00:44:44] Nelson Terroba: Yeah, I mean, the two dream jobs that I had were to work at the University of Texas, right? And the second ones, that one extinguished. The second dream job I had would be to be the head varsity coach at my old high school. So I got to do, the good news was that I got to do both by the time I was 26.

You know the bad news is that we were both in my rearview mirror by the time I was 28. But when I went back to dripping, I was there two years in the middle school. Enjoyed it, you know I was two years as a freshman coach. Really enjoyed it. Had really good seasons as a freshman coach.

So, the answer to your question, how prepared was I as prepared as I could be, but still young and was going to was going to make mistakes just like anyone else, you know? But I think that I was prepared. I worked hard to try to be prepared. I was a freshman coach, had really good seasons, like 30 and 2, 28 and four, something like that.

And I thought I was really you talked about earlier like how when you’re young, you really think you got it, you know? And I thought, man, I’m a pretty good basketball coach. But what I didn’t recognize was like I was a freshman coach coaching against, was usually in Texas the football coach who they put in as the freshman basketball coach so I’m, I’m a basketball dude, just all about basketball, who’s constantly coaching against guys who some were good coaches, but a lot of ’em were just like football coaches who that was their assignment to just kind of their second sport.

Right. So I move up to be the varsity coach and I’m sure we’re going to win 20 games at least my first year we’re definitely going to make the playoffs. And I think we were eight and 12 so much for that 20 wins. Oh man. Eight 12 worse. I really don’t even remember. It’s probably for my own health that I never kind of registered those records.

I know it was eight wins, maybe it was even eight and 14. But I remember, like, we started out, oh, and two, oh and three, and I and then my confidence turned into like, oh my gosh, I’m looking at the schedule. I mean, when are we going to win one? So but great learning and, and, and, and it was fantastic because by the time I got to my freshman, my district season we play each team twice.

I’m sure y’all do the same. But man, those old ball coaches just, just whipped me, you know what I mean? They just, I mean, they were playing chess. I was playing checkers for sure. I mean, I learned so much. I probably learned more in my first year of varsity head coaching just from getting beat and out schemed and just outcoached than any other year probably in coaching. And, but it was good. And luckily I was committed to trying to get it right and, you know I think the first round of district we were one in four, in the second round of district, we were four in one against the same teams. But I learned a lot, you know.

And so the second year, I think we were just a couple games over 500 my second year there at Dripping Springs, and we had a talented player. And he was young young player and, and we butted heads. And I know this is a lesson I would share with any coach.

You know, I didn’t know how to do it any differently. You know, I was standing up for the team. I felt that the player was selfish, little immature. I wasn’t wrong to assess that, but what I didn’t do is I didn’t find creative ways to hold him accountable. And it became more about barking at him.

Running and sprinting you know, punishments. And I think it became like a distraction to the process of the team as opposed to finding a way to get him to on the right track, but do it in a more collaborative or inclusive way. So after my second year long story short, at Dripping Springs I was told in the summer by my ad we’re going in a different direction, which was also you know, a big let down for me.

And you know, here I am at, I guess 28 at this point probably. And now I’ve lost my second dream job and in my head I’m like you know, is this really for me?

[00:49:31] Mike Klinzing: I could see that.

[00:49:32] Nelson Terroba: Yeah. Yeah, the reason I say it is I love the game and I love coaching teaching, but the part that my heart was broken, you know because in my head and heart I was like, I knew that I really cared about doing a good job.

I knew I really cared about the people too. It wasn’t just about my ego, you know what I mean? And I knew that I was working hard, doing my very best. You know what I mean? And I thought if I could work as hard as I can and have noble intentions, and be in my own hometown, you know what I mean? Where I grew up and played, and I could still get fired from there.

Right. I thought, I mean, can I survive?

[00:50:22] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. How am I, how am I ever going to have job security? Right,

[00:50:24] Nelson Terroba: Right, right. So that was that was tough. And so I ended up, it was a quick turnaround, so I ended up landing at Austin High which is a school in the area. I was an assistant and my first year there at Austin High freshman was kind of like a shell of myself, just kind of trying to recapture my coaches voice.

But as I this is something for coaches that are there and listening if you’ve been fired, if you’re down like, it’s just totally natural. It’s totally normal. And I just remember the first phase of it was like, man, I’ve been wronged. You know, I got fired for the wrong reasons.

All that kind of stuff. But after reflecting, and I remember I read a book, it was something about total transformation or something like that. It was something like that. What it was about it was a parenting book and it was about parenting quote tricky kids or whatever the phrase might be, right?

And I remember reading it, and that was a really good book for me because it really taught me that, listen, you just have to focus on the behaviors de emotionalized things, right? If they’re not blocking out I could make ’em run sprints or I could say, no, do that again. Do it this way.

You know what I mean? Let me show you like this, do it. And then they’ll do it and say, perfect, that’s what I needed you to do. They don’t do it. Nope, do it again. Nope. Do it again. Perfect. That’s exactly what we want. We’re moving on. You know what I mean? Yep. Just, and I know that’s just learning how to correct, give feedback the right way, but force behavior change the right way, just simply by being able to clearly articulate what you want is so important in coaching.

And I learned, and I finally got over myself enough to say I wasn’t I didn’t have bad intentions of Dripping Springs. I didn’t have bad intentions when I was coaching that player. I did want what the best for him. And he ended up going off in college and he ended up 12 years later reaching out to me and saying just texting and saying, Hey coach, listen, I just wanted to let you know, and it meant a lot, you know but he reached out and said, I wanted to let you know that I know that in high school you really did have my best interest at heart and that there were some conditions going on beyond your control.

That I really couldn’t, I wasn’t mature enough to handle, you know I went off to college and it was like you said, it would be, you know they they registered him. They, they sold him a bill of goods. They registered him and he ended transferring. But it was really cool that years later that he reached out and made sure to say that to me.

But the takeaway I would give coaches is this, which is it’s really easy to be a coach for the loyal soldiers who do exactly as you say, before you even tell ’em to do it. You know? And that’s, it’s fun to coach those players, no doubt. . But I thought to myself, if I’m wanting to be a great teacher not just a great coach, a great teacher in the classroom, a great teacher and a great coach.

The great teachers always find a way to connect with a great majority of the students, and especially the tricky ones, who are those really brilliant students who are just not being challenged enough. They find a way right to engage those students. And I thought if I want to be considered a good coach, I have to be able to connect with the most talented players who have the most personality.

That’s my job, that’s my duty. But otherwise, I’m just an average coach. So I flipped my mentality about kind of from the victim thing to just saying like, I’ve have to learn how to really be a better. If I want to be doing this and be consider myself a good coach. So that’s, that became with learning how to deal with behavior change and giving better feedback.

That was a big thing for me.

[00:54:40] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, and that’s definitely where you earn your money, right? And when you start talking about working with guys that have talent, but that maybe are a little bit more difficult to reach or a little bit more temperamental or whatever it may be. I think if you can, if you can get to those people, it’s the same way, like you said, as a teacher everybody likes to work with the student who’s sitting in the front row and always has their hand up to answer a question.

But the reality is that not all the students are like that. And not all the players are the ones that are. The coachable ones, the ones that you wish you could have 15 of them. You need, you need a lot of those. But you, you’re also going to, in your career, you’re going to deal with guys who, who aren’t as easy to work with.

And if you can figure out a way to, to connect with them, to build relationships with them, and then to be able to have an impact on ’em, on and off the basketball floor like that, that’s really where you’re, that’s really where you’re going to make your make your mark and, and, and have an impact on people.

[00:55:35] Nelson Terroba: Yeah. And I think the more you do it, you realize that these, you know folks that have more challenging to work with, they also have had sometimes more challenging upbringings and more challenging circumstances. And you have to have to learn about folks learn about people, learn their story, understand them better and you know, you would look at, you know you know, a lot of people wonder like they look I’m associate head coach with Texas Legends, G League coach, been a professional coach.

You know, we can get to on on all that, how that came to be. But the truth of it is no part of me ever wanted to be a professional basketball coach. Like, I didn’t want to be like in terms of a pro, I wanted be division one college, then I want to be a high school coach. I did not want to be a pro coach. I thought if I was in the pros, number one, these guys aren’t coachable, number two, what would I be able to provide them as a coach?

You know, I didn’t play at this level. You know, what could I offer then, you know what I mean? And thirdly out of ignorance, I felt that I’m watching again, it’s just isolation, basketball, there’s just no coaching going on. You know, it’s the pro all that stuff. I was wrong.

So I learned that I couldn’t coach where I coach now and I couldn’t coach the way I coach now if I hadn’t fallen flat on my face in my twenties. And had to really kind of reassess how I wanted to approach working with players, you know? And I’m glad I’m glad it all worked out, but you know, that’s kind of the way it is.

And so I did Austin High for a year three years actually. I was at Austin High, and it got my confidence back, was helping out with a team. There was a very tough, good district. My head coach, coach Duney really gave me a voice, kind of. He was great for me in terms of just trusting me to kind of, kind of give me a nudge in the back because I was a little still a little you know, A shade of a shadow of myself.

He was great for me. And then by the time my third year happened there, we had really good players. We had a really good season 29 and three, I believe. Got to the quarter finals in state, won a playoff game, all all kind of things that, and won some tough games against good coaches. And I was really involved in all that really gave me confidence that, that I could think on the same level as some really good coaches in a high level of, of high school basketball.

And so I was there and you know, was still an assistant, had a great season, but Will Voigt, who was a special assistant alongside me at the University of Texas, he had gone, his route was, he went professional. I went high school. We always kept in contact. We were friends and , he just reached out.

We always kept a contact and he said, Hey, would you have any interest in coming out and being like video guy and a third assistant here with the Bakersfield Jam? If I had been a head coach of my own high school team, I wouldn’t have done it. You know, I would’ve already had my program and I wouldn’t have left for that.

But I couldn’t get another head high school job right away, because I tried once or twice and I said, you know what? Let me go do this for a year because I could at least learn. And if I come back, it’ll look better. If I have some pro coaching on my resume, maybe I can go get the head varsity job in town that I’m trying to get.

So I went to Bakersfield. That’s how I started kind of as a pro coach. That was in 2011.

[00:59:18] Mike Klinzing: Did finances play at all into that decision?

[00:59:21] Nelson Terroba: Well, yeah, but not in, not in the way you think. No.

[00:59:24] Mike Klinzing: I’m assuming in a negative way.

[00:59:25] Nelson Terroba: Yes, it did. So listen, that’s good question. So, I, it wasn’t in a negative way, it wasn’t terrible.

But what happened in this is kind of what’s allowed me to kind of meander through this path a little bit, is that I ended up my house that I bought when I first graduated from University of Texas I just put it up for rent so I put it up for rent in Austin, and so I went to Bakersfield.

So the house gave me a little bit of extra income and, and the, and the, the pay was good enough, but the house gave me enough of extra income just to kind of survive if, if I didn’t have anything else. And so then I went and did it. And I also enrolled in graduate school kind of remotely because I wanted to study how to be a principal.

So I got my master’s online. I told myself I’m going to make this kind of a win-win if I, if the basketball pro thing is terrible, I’m going to use this time to kind of work on my master’s degree at the same time. So I’ll come back from this and I’ll be better off I’ll be able to either pivot into administration or I will maybe something works with this pro coaching thing.

So I did it and yeah, so the, the house being rented was helpful in that financial situation.

[01:00:42] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, I’m sure that made a big difference. What, so what’s that experience like? When you go, obviously you’re going up to the professional level. It’s, it’s a different, it’s a different animal. It’s a different experience.

You got coaches that are, that are there, that are that are working in the program. You got players who are obviously trying to make it and, and get themselves to the point where they can, they can make a real payday and, and be able to make a career out of it. Make a go of it. So just tell us a little bit about what’s that experience like in minor league basketball here in the United States?

Cause I don’t, I think it’s a, it’s an area that we’ve talked to a couple different people on the podcast that I’ve had experience in that area, but I think it’s not even, even a lot of basketball fans, coaches, I don’t think they necessarily have a good understanding of what it’s all about.

[01:01:28] Nelson Terroba: Yeah, so what I the things that I worried about in the terms of the pros in terms of not being able to really help a professional basketball player or impact them, or that they didn’t need teaching or they might not be coachable. All that kind of stuff was wrong, you know? The players at our level need coaching and they want coaching and they appreciate coaching.

You know what I mean? They want to be the best in the world, you know what I mean? So they know that if you can help them be better at what they love and what their dream is, it doesn’t matter how tall you are, doesn’t matter how loud you are. You know, it doesn’t hurt if you’re tall and it doesn’t hurt if you Right.

You have a great playing background, doesn’t hurt, does not hurt. You have a lot of built in cache, but that cache will wear off if you are not competent. And if you are not on top of your game, prepared every day, you know? So as far as the pro game, what I learned when I went to Bakersfield was that I could coach those players.

That those coaches, those players were receptive to coaching and that I actually enjoyed the level of thought and play that was going on. And I enjoyed it. So I wanted to come back but again, story of my career there,  I didn’t, there was not a spot for me the second year at Bakersfield.

So I came back to Austin and I helped kind of open up a facility in Austin and oversaw that facility, the PAC, the premier athletic complex built out programs there. AAU training new facility six courts. The whole thing started out, basketball director was the facility director before within a year.

Good job, good pain, job, lot of, lots of autonomy lots of creativity. Enjoyed it. But you know, I just kind of got four years in. It’s funny how it works I’m coaching a group. There’s a player named Curry Flowers. And Curry is a player who just, he’s just he just tells the truth, all right?

And he doesn’t have a filter and he just tells the truth. So we fast forward to the end of the year. Curry ends up getting a scholarship to Temple Junior College to go to school after his senior year. And he says, Hey, coach, do you mind taking me to school to move in? His mom was working.

He I said, yeah, I don’t mind. I don’t mind at all. It was about, about an hour up the road. So it wasn’t a big long trip. So we’re in the car and Curry kind of looks at me. Coach, what you doing? Coaching AAU basketball at the PAC.  No other player in my life that I’ve coached would’ve had the wherewithal, the courage. Right. The moxie to even ask that. Right. And no other player would I have taken it the way I took it when Curry asked me which was, I took it as the biggest compliment on earth. Right.

Because he was not easy. Right? He was, he was the type of player that I couldn’t keep my job with when I was a dripping springs. You know what I mean? He was that tricky player. He’s emotional, but he loves the game, plays hard. But he, he wants you to be good at your job. He wants you to put him in positions to be successful.

You know, he wants you to help him win the game. He cares about the game and if you’re not helping win the game, he doesn’t mind telling you that you’re not helping him win the game. But Curry says that to me. He is like, coach you can’t be doing this. You have to be, you have to be in a college somewhere, somewhere else.

The pros, what? I don’t know, but you are not an AAU basketball coach, you know for the PAC. And I laughed. And this kind of goes back to like the Coach English little moment in time where somebody kind of tells you something that makes you think it stops you in your tracks a little bit more than the normal everyday deal.

And I didn’t do anything about it, but I, it just registered in my head like, Yeah, I just laughed. I said, yeah, you’re probably right. Curry . You know, this is, I said, but I like this. You know, I like this. It’s good I get to whatever. He’s like, and he just looked at me like I was crazy, right?

He’s like, whatever, coach. You know, you’re crazy. Like, you need to get somewhere else or something. So that’s that. We dropped them off. I worked Snow Valley Camp which I had started in 2000, I think 2001 was my first year working Snow Valley camp out in California. So I always worked it every year.

I always loved it because I learned really good coaching teachers there. That was like probably the biggest developer of me as a coach was working Snow Valley basketball camps. Learning from unbelievable coaches. Seeing what it was like to like run a defensive clinic like six times, teach six hours of defense over a week.

Yep. I just knew drills, you know? And going there, I was like, wow. And I went there a couple years and I was like, wow, this is crazy. These coaches like know how to teach these subjects, they’re teachers like classroom teachers, right?

They’re teaching basketball not like, and that was like, so cool. My notes, my notes. I mean, I would just, my legal pad’s full of notes every time I went to Snow Valley. And you know, and another one of the formative people in my life as a coach was Coach Sands, who was you know, the director of Snow Valley in California, in Santa Barbara Montecito. But he was an an older coach. Great coach, great man. And even though it was just a summer camp and I’d go every summer, those coaches like looked after me. You know, they mentored me they cared and they really modeled great teaching, learned so much at Snow Valley.

But I remember when you talk about formative things one of the things that really helped me find my voice as a coach when I was still at you know, in Dripping Springs as Coach Sands, it was like my second or third year at Snow Valley, and he saw me writing all these notes. He saw how much I cared and I, whatever that clinician taught, man, I go to my basket.

It was exactly how that clinician taught it using the same words, same progressions organizing it, the right, the right way, taking pride and really bringing that to life. And I loved just the learning. I was like, cause I know if I learn this, I do it right, I’m going to learn it myself.

And he came to me and he said he knew me well enough to know that I probably would say no, but he said, I want you to coach the defense, teach defense next year at Snow Valley. And I said, coach, I can’t do that. Serious humility. It was like, coach, there are so many good coaches here. I am not in their ballpark.

You know, I, there’s so many better coaches to teach defense here and to his credit like Coach English did, and Coach Sands did it to me. Curry Flowers did it for me. Some people just sometimes just kind of grab you by the shoulders, figuratively, and just shake you like, wake up man, you know?

And he said, I’m not taking no for an answer. I’m giving you a full year to prepare and. If you want to be great, you have to get out of your comfort zone. And you know, so I did it the next year. I don’t know if you know about Snow Valley

[01:09:43] Mike Klinzing: I’ve been to Snow Valley in Iowa multiple times now with Coach Show and Coach Slaw out there.

So those guys at Iowa do a tremendous job. I haven’t, haven’t been to California, but definitely have been you know, part of Snow Valley’s an important part of what, what we’ve done here with the Hoop Heas Pod. I mean, coach Showalter, the podcast wouldn’t be nearly where it is without him.

[01:10:05] Nelson Terroba: Well, so then, so, and I worked with Coach Show one Summer there in Iowa too, and it was amazing very, very awesome.

The coaching is great. But like California’s where it all started, right? In the sixties. Yeah. And so that’s Jeff Van Gundy, VanGundy came up through Snow Valley, Greg Popovich, John Wooden, Rick Majerus you know, all kind of coaches came up through Snow Valley, you know. And so it was just very intimidating, you know?

So when I started to do my defensive clinics, it’s literally like if you’re a performer at Carnegie Hall it’s like, that’s a big deal. You know what I mean? Like, if you’ve been around for a while, you see these coaches and how good they’re, you got these great coaches teaching. So I taught defense, and I remember I was trying to do the defensive system, Bob Kloppenburg up the line trap, trapped the box, everything just super aggressive, full denial, you know?

And IDid a good job teaching the drills, you know? But as, as they started to play, man, we were giving up layups. The rotations were so long, rebounds puts you already know what I’m talking about. I was all spread out defensively. I had no idea what shrink the floor meant or anything about it.

Defense, not a clue. I thought it was all about aggressiveness and going and getting it and everything else and against Snow Valley helped me. So I did it, I worked hard and I thought to myself, this is some old coaches were in my group and like, Hey, have you ever seen the defense, the dvd, Mike Heideman, the PAC Defense, Mike Heideman Wisconsin Green Bay.

Okay, great. I mean, coaches out there, that’s a great teaching DVD on how to teach defense. So they told me about it. Yeah, this is PAC Line. You should think about it. You know, they were probably just being nice to me, like, you are just giving up the paint left and right. And you know, I went and watched that video and then that really helped me become a better defensive coach.

But what Coach Sands knew he was doing for me is Snow Valley made me plant my feet and say, this is defense. This is offense for me. You know? And that’s the hardest part as a coach is planting your feet and defining your philosophy, you know what I mean? And your belief set. And that was what was so great about Snow Valley is I did that and I got to get a chance to like improve my system.

Every year he let me teach and tinker and learn from others and. That’s probably the best reason that if I am a good teacher of the game, it would be because of Snow Valley.

[01:13:01] Mike Klinzing: Well, it’s a process, right? Same way with a player that you can’t cheat the process of becoming a good coach. You can’t cheat the process of becoming a good player.

There are steps and there are things that you have to do in order to get to the point where you can be the type of coach slash teacher that you’re talking about to be able to, to grasp all those different subtleties of the game. And then let’s face it, the most important part of being able to coach.

It’s not, what’s the old saying? It’s like it’s not what you know, it’s what you can get the players to do. It’s what you can get them to actually learn. And it’s one thing to have a bunch of knowledge in your head. It’s another thing to be able to be out on a basketball court with a bunch of players and get them to execute what it is that you’re trying to teach ’em.

Whether that be an individual skill or whether that be something team oriented. And I think your story and most coaches stories is that that doesn’t happen automatically. It doesn’t happen overnight. It doesn’t happen without a tremendous amount of time and effort of you putting that into the game so that you could be at your best and be prepared as these different opportunities throughout your career have come at you.

[01:14:17] Nelson Terroba: Yeah. And I think that that’s, that’s what’s great and I to kind of accelerate through the next kind of the pro piece is when I got back to. What folks should know, young coaches and all folks that are interested is I got a chance to go to Bakersfield and work with Will Voight and start my pro career mostly because I was kind to Will Voight when there was a lot of conflict at the University of Texas.

You know what I mean? And I was just a good person, you know what I mean? Like and he knew that about me, you know what I mean? And he knew that he could trust me. You know, he knew who I was, right? We worked alongside. He knew that I was committed to the game. I wanted to be a great teacher, that I was a truthful person that I wanted to do right by the game.

He knew that. And he also knew that I was willing to take tough stands and not always go with what everyone else thought. You know what I mean? So anyways, my point is, Because I was kind in myself and just kind to him at a time when, when we were both kind of in flux, when he got that opportunity, he wanted someone like me to be on his staff.

So that got me a chance. And as we fast forward to when I got back to Austin, I didn’t have anything at Bakersfield. I work PGC College and Chad Songy was a director. He helped me connect with Tony and Leslie who were the owners of this new facility coming up in Austin. And that became, I became basketball director there, kind of took a sabbatical, traveled to the Midwest traveled around watching good coaches, but then ran basketball there for those four years when I wanted to get back into the pros, I go back to Snow Valley right after Curry Flowers tells me, Coach you’re crazy to be coaching.

You know, Hey you, I go back to Snow Valley every year. I did it even though I wasn’t, you know you know, a full-time coach. I always went, cause I enjoyed it and I was coaching basketball defense or whatever and coach coaches came up to like, Hey, where do you coach at? Coach? And I was like, oh you know, facility in Austin, Texas they’re like, oh man, we thought you were for sure a pro coach, the way you have command or whatever.

They said it was a compliment and whatever. And again, it just started just tapping me on the shoulder again. Curry’s comment, these coaches comments and I said I just have to try again. I just gave it one more chance. So I ended up reaching out Erie Bay Hawks. The general manager for the Erie Bay Hawks was George Rodman.

George Rodman had been a camp counselor. Okay. When I ran camps at the University of Texas, he was in charge of the buses, put him in charge of the buses, And, and then I recommended him to be a manager. Cause he worked hard and he was sharp and good sense of humor. George Rodman is now like in the front office in Charlotte with the Hornets.

But he was with he became a San Antonio’s first intern, move his way up, whatever. And he was, he ended up being a general manager at Erie. He, I was like, oh man, I reached out to him this and that, you know? And I have you guys ever have something open up? I just got this itch and whatever.

Cause you know what we actually do have a spot opening up. I think you’d be good for it. You know, start assistant video. Again, a guy that knew me to be a good guy. If I was like abusing my power when I was in charge of camp, if I was treating people the wrong way, he was on the low end of that totem pole, you know.

And it’s funny because he gave me a chance, in a sense to get to Erie. The person, the only person on my resume list that Coach Peterson, Bill Peterson knew who was the head coach at Erie, was still his choice to hire me or not. He looked at my resume and the only person he knew on my resume was Dave Bollwinkle.

I dunno if you’ve worked with him?

[01:18:35] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, I worked with Dave. I worked with Dave yeah, two, three summers ago. Yep.

[01:18:38] Nelson Terroba: Right. Snow Valley. Right. So, for sure. So he, so I worked with Coach Bollwinkle since 2001 at Snow Valley, California. He ran the Point Guards. Right. So I was working with him several years and Coach Bollwinkle’s the best and he’s always been a great mentor to me, even since then, still to this day.

And that was the name that Coach Peterson knew. on my list of references. So Snow Valley I never want to be a pro coach, but Snow Valley and my work there as a high school coach helped me get back in as a pro coach, you know and Bill George Rodman helped me get back in when he was just a manager, aspiring manager when I was running Texas basketball camps.

And Will Voight helped me get a chance at Bakersfield when we were both alongside each other as special assistance. And then I fast forward to that and, and you know, I end up being at Erie. I go to Canada for two years. Our team runs out of Money of all things. Welcome to minor League Pro Sports

[01:19:41] Mike Klinzing: There you go. That story has been told before for sure.

[01:19:44] Nelson Terroba: Yeah. So that happens and I reach out and George Gallops, who’s the head coach of the Legends, he had been an intern at the Bakersfield Jam. When I was the third assistant, so he was 23, I was 33 in a sense. I mentored him a little bit back in that time as he was getting his start.

And lo and behold, the basketball world and the pathways that happened, George got named the head coach of the Texas Legends he worked his way through the Dallas Mavs player development department, video department, and got, got a chance to be named this head coach. And when I called him, I said, Hey, listen man, I this team’s running out of money.

I don’t know if you you hear anything. And his staff was already full. I was pretty sure. I said, but if you hear anything, and then gee, just let me know. He’s like, you know what, there’s a chance there’s a spot here that’s going to open up. I said, okay. So again, lo and behold, George hires me to be his assistant run the defense for a couple years and all that stuff.

But again, this last chapter of my life, right of my coaching life in the pros is all based on relationships that I formed before this chapter ever existed. Fully not knowing that I’d ever need those relationships or that I’d ever even want to be in the pros, and all those folks that were actually below me on the totem pole kind of pulled me up when I was down.

And they moved up faster than me and they, they were kind enough to give me opportunities when they moved up. So it’s really interesting how it’s all worked out.

[01:21:36] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, that’s a lesson that I think that if I could teach a young person, I try to have these conversations with my own kids.

A lot that you’ve have to invest in people and you’ve have to treat people the right way. And when you do that, then you start to build relationships. And look, a lot of the relationships that you or I probably had when we were 20, 21, 22 those people that we had relationships with that were, our friends probably at that time, couldn’t really do much to help us because they’re not in positions to make decisions.

But as you get older, those friends that you make when you’re 17, 18, 20, 22, 23, now those people get to a point where they can start to make some decisions that can, that can help you. And that if you’ve built that, that social network, it’s just so important. I think it’s underrated. I look back at the early part of just, not even my career, but just my life.

And you kind of wish that, hey, I should have spent more time building. A network of people that could have been there to support me when I wanted to try X or wanted to try Y or was looking for, for this. And you know, again, that’s not to say that what that what I did didn’t work well for me and I, I didn’t end up where I was supposed to end up.

But I do think that there’s so much value, as you said in relationships and your story really does a great job of illustrating how important those relationships can be. Because ultimately there’s a lot of people that want to be basketball coaches, and there’s a lot of people that want to coach at the division one college level.

There’s a lot of people that want to coach at the professional level. And the more people that you know that you’ve had a working relationship with that can talk about the quality of the person you are and the quality of work that you do, that’s going to put you in a position to be able to get one of those jobs that’s coveted by a lot of people, let’s put it that way.

[01:23:39] Nelson Terroba: Yeah, and I’ll say this too just on that note is again, This is not something I ever aspired to. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I have to say that again. Like I didn’t aspire to be a professional basketball coach. I aspired to be a college coach, and then I aspired to be a high school coach. And I’m glad that it went in all the orders that it went through because I say this to people too, the pro coach could learn from the high school coach because the high school coach does not get to replace their players.

They don’t get to trade anybody. They don’t get to release anybody, and they don’t get to sign anybody new and they don’t get to recruit anybody. They get what they get and they make the most of it. Right? Absolutely. And that’s their job. And that’s the most noble thing. I love high school coaches. Like it to me is the most noble profession.

I love it because it is. About that. You know, like you have to take what is given to you and make it into something. Right? So I think the pro coach could learn from that, you know? Because sometimes with pro coaches and people in college will be like, Hey, you need to gimme better players, you know?

Right. The front office isn’t doing their job. The, the assistant coaches need to get better players. You guys got bad recruits. We need to get, get on the road, get better players, you know. So number one, but number two, the high school coach and the college coaches could learn from the pro coaches in terms of using terminology effectively, organizing their systems efficiently, using practice time, purposefully, not wasting a second not a drill that doesn’t connect directly to the game.

No, just drills that I like. You know, just everything. You know what I mean?

[01:25:32] Mike Klinzing: I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. Everybody’s got their favorites.

[01:25:36] Nelson Terroba: Yeah, let’s go. Okay. 12 minutes on the clock, let’s do favorite drill. You know? And you know, you can’t do that in the pros because like, nope, we don’t want to waste those 12 minutes because we only get 90 to 120 minutes.

And after that we need to preserve their bodies. They’re going to look at us like we’re crazy if we’re wasting their time. You know? And the other part about the pros that, that I really appreciate is I have to earn the respect of my players every day, every single day. If I come in one day of practice not prepared, and a player asks me a question or they’re like, yo, we can’t do it that way.

Cause if you do that, he’s going to pop for three and now that’s not going to work. And, and the pros, they just tell you that. No, no. He’s going to pop that and we’re going to give up a three and they’ll just tell you, right? Yep. And you’re like, you, so you have to do the work every day. And I have to come in every day really prepared, because you can’t fake it with pros.

You can’t fake your knowledge, you can’t fake your command over the curriculum. You can’t fake your voice and you can’t fake your authenticity and you don’t need to yell. And that doesn’t work either. You have to teach, you have to correct, you have to do it calmly. And you have to do it consistently and you have to earn the respect.

And it’s a slow process that I always have to do every year. But it’s one of the things that I really appreciate about the pros is that I don’t get anything given to me here. I have to come to work every day and earn it. Because if I don’t, they’ll just tell me that doesn’t make sense, coach.

[01:27:19] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, it’s a great point. I think that’s something that. It speaks to any level when, when you’re doing your prep work for a practice or when you’re doing your you’re drawing up a practice plan or you’re, or you’re putting together an offensive set or a scheme, or you’re working defensively on rotations or whatever it is.

I think one of the worst things that you can do as a coach is to come in and be, and be unprepared, I think, and that goes to, to any level, right? I mean, even if you’re mm-hmm. Talking about you’re standing in front of a group of middle school kids, and if you’re trying to explain an out of bounds play and you say, well go here.

Oh, no, no, no, no, you, no sorry. You have to go there. You know, and you’re talking like that to them, those kids are going to quickly lose respect for you. And now you take that to the pro level and you’re multiplying that by multiples of a hundred, where they’re going to look at you and be like, Hey, this guy’s not prepared.

He doesn’t know what he is talking about. And I’m sure that in those cases you’d get tuned out really, really fast. Let’s put it that way.

[01:28:22] Nelson Terroba: You do. And that’s what I’m saying, like in middle school, the players have to be like, okay, yes sir. Coach, we got you in in high school. Oh, yes sir, coach, we got you in college.

Okay. Even less now. Because now they got the transport portal and they gots, which I think is great. The coaches have to earn the players’ respect every day, you know? And they can’t sell you. I can’t sell you a bill of goods and say, you’re going to come here, you’re going to play, you’re going to play 40 minutes, you’re going to be the best in the world.

We’re going to treat you right? And all of a sudden you change the second somebody steps on campus, you change your tune. And all of a sudden these players are trapped because they, oh, I don’t want to sit out a year. I think it’s great. You know, because coaches need to earn the player’s respect. And that’s what I think in those areas, sometimes you’re granted positional respect, but in the pros it’s not that way.

And you have to earn it through your competence. And that’s what I appreciate about the pros. It what makes it challenging every day. But it’s also, I know when I earn that respect if I do, when I’m able to with every any player that I work with, I know what it looks like and feels like.

I know when it happens that, that that’s a noble undertaking and that that’s something that had to be very intentional and it didn’t happen by accident.

[01:29:43] Mike Klinzing: What’s your process for learning and growing. Where do you go? Who do you talk to? Is it mentors? Is it books? Is it film work? What do you do to improve your craft as a coach?

[01:29:56] Nelson Terroba: Yeah. I think it’s film work. Yes. It’s always talking with others, it’s working camp still, I’ll try to get a snow valley in here and there. I think it’s, I mean, I’d love to visit other coaches. You know, I’ve always, I mean,  it’s learning from other coaches really always.

So sometimes it’s in all truth for instance, I’m in the G League the coach at Memphis Hustle is a great coach go coach against him several years now, scout against him. And I like to do that. You know, cause I’m always learning that, oh man, he used him that way.

That’s really good. So I still, to this day, the most learning I get is from other coaches and great coaches studying their teams seeing how they utilize their personnel how they conduct themselves. You know, that’s the best learning for me. What’s special about the G League? I think what’s special about the G League is it’s a humble league.

Meaning the people here haven’t arrived at their final at their final aspiration. Okay. Now this is a lofty league, and it’s a great league on its own right? It’s got good coaches, it’s got great players. Like this is a tough league. You know, some people say it’s the second best league in the world, you know.

So what makes the G League special is it’s filled with great players. With great coaches, but with a lot of people who are on the rise that are using this opportunity in this, this podium to, to springboard them into what they want. But it’s a humble league and everybody here hasn’t arrived.

So there’s not a lot of entitlement. There’s nothing like that. There’s like, we have to get to work here because we all want to be a level higher than where we’re at. So I think the, the best part of the G League is the amount of learning. The amount of development and the whole thing is built around that model.

It’s about around development and it’s around really great players playing against really good players, but all really focused on developing so that they can get that one last developmental stage completed so they can get to where they really want.

[01:32:20] Mike Klinzing: All right, we are coming on past an hour and a half. So I want to ask one final two part question.

Part one, when you look ahead over the next year or two, what do you see as being the biggest challenge in front of you? And number two, when you think about what you get to do each and every day, what about your job brings you the most joy? So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

[01:32:51] Nelson Terroba: Well, the biggest challenges for the young coaches out there, it’s the same as me, is, is the biggest challenge is being able to the G League is create lasting job security.

You know, biggest challenge is job security. And that’s just a true statement, you know? You don’t know where you’re going to be maybe from one year to another. Cause the G League is very nomadic in a sense, you know? Cause they’re always trying to bring new people in. So the biggest challenge for me personally is just making sure I land somewhere, whether it’s here or elsewhere, where I could just get that stability you know, long term three, five years some sort of stability where you know where you’re going to be.

I think that’s the biggest challenge. The biggest joy in coaching is the same joy that I had when I was playing for Dripping Springs High School. It’s being part of the team coaching staff and helping players man, like just helping them see what they can do before they even know they can get to it.

You know, helping a player realize you’re a. So you, you can kind of like you can see these things your kids are probably missing out on like that they’re just not seeing your daughter, she’s in college,  she doesn’t realize all this free time she’s got.

Yep. All these opportunities. She’s got like, we can see the things because we’ve been there. We can see that the gaps, we can see all this stuff. So it’s great to be able to share your experience with a player who’s got great talent, got a great mind, got great aspirations, great work ethic, that you can help them plug some of these gaps that they don’t even know are there that you can help them with.

And that those little areas are the difference between them reaching their aspirations and for you to be able to kind of find a way to bring those to life. To teach them in a way where they’ll receive it and they’ll understand it so that they can apply it and then use all this God-given talent skill that they have in mind, power to, to get what they want.

You know? So just being able to help people realize their I guess their potential I guess. But to do it in a way where, you know you give them a gift I guess that that they can take with ’em. And I guess because I guess I’ll wrap it up with when my mom, my mom when I was in high school, I got some scholarship I was a senior or some scholars leadership scholarship or something.

And you know, I came back to the table. I didn’t expect I was going to get it some kind of banquet and everything. It was kind of a surprise deal. And so I got it and I come back to the table and my mom’s crying. I’m like, mom, what is wrong with you right now? You know and she’s crying and my pops is just beaning.

And again, you just have to know that these, these again, they came from different countries, right? Cuba, Columbia. And it’s the most important thing that my mother always said, that she was just at the top of her mind was always that we would be able to get an education. And the reason it was so important for her is because my dad and my mom didn’t have to say formal education, but they were very smart, very hardworking, very industrious people.

But they always felt like they had to work twice as hard because they didn’t have the starting points of education to get where they wanted. And one thing that stood out to me is my mom’s crying and she’s doing her thing, and. and you know, she just, it never connected until that time for me that that dot didn’t connect where she was just like, we’ve done everything we could to make sure you guys had the opportunity to learn.

You know, they moved us to good places and they made money so that they could put us in good schools, but it was all about making sure we had a good education. And one thing she, she always says is you can’t, no one can take education away from you. And that’s what I think about in terms of what’s the best part of our job as coaches and teachers, is if we can teach somebody some things that they can take with them, they’re forever theirs.

And that’s the best part of doing what we do.

[01:37:33] Mike Klinzing: It’s well said, Nelson. I think being able to do what you do to be able to share with players, to be able to put the time in to, to increase your own knowledge base so that then you can pass that along to the players that you get to work with and have an impact on them, both on the basketball floor and hopefully helping them to advance their career and get to where they want to go and reach their goals.

But you’re not only helping ’em on the floor, but you’re helping ’em off the floor and, and. That’s what it comes down to. Coaching. Yeah. Wins and losses. Critical, important things we’re all judged upon. But the reality is, is that the impact that you have on, as a coach goes way beyond those, those wins and losses and, and to be able to impact people by sharing that knowledge and, and giving ’em something that, as you said, and as your mom so eloquently said, that it can’t be taken away from them.

And there’s, there’s power in that. For sure. Before we get out, I want to give you a chance to share how people can reach out to you, find out more about what you’re doing, find out more about the legends, if you want to share social media, email, whatever you feel comfortable with. And then after you do that, I’ll jump back in and wrap things up.

[01:38:44] Nelson Terroba: Sure. I mean, anyone can reach out. You know, I’m on Twitter, I guess @coachterroba all one word. You know, that’s Twitter. You know, that’s, Probably the best way. I mean, I’m on Instagram too. I’m not very exciting on there.

Definitely not an influencer . But at least on Instagram, I prefer to be an influencer elsewhere. But that is that’s an easy way to get ahold of me. And you know, I’m always happy to help coaches who are just trying to improve.

[01:39:17] Mike Klinzing: Nelson, cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule and although many of you out there listening will not hopefully notice we had a few technical issues that Nelson stuck with.

He stuck with us throughout the course of, of the technical issues. So again, thank you. We really truly appreciate it. And to everyone out there who’s a part of our audience and listening, we appreciate you as well. And we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.