Jerome Green

Website –

Email –

Twitter – @icanwinnow

Jerome Green has worked with high performing High School Basketball Players for the past 20 years through his affiliation with Hoop Masters and the Compton Magic.  He has helped run youth sports basketball organizations while coaching young adults, and consulting with coaches and athletes both on and off the court. 

Jerome is also an executive and leadership coach who spent 24 years working in higher education, university management, leadership development, and human resources.

If you’re looking to improve your coaching please consider joining the Hoop Heads Mentorship Program.  We believe that having a mentor is the best way to maximize your potential and become a transformational coach. By matching you up with one of our experienced mentors you’ll develop a one on one relationship that will help your coaching, your team, your program, and your mindset.  The Hoop Heads Mentorship Program delivers mentoring services to basketball coaches at all levels through our team of experienced Head Coaches. Find out more at or shoot me an email directly

Be sure to follow us on Twitter and Instagram @hoopheadspod for the latest updates on episodes, guests, and events from the Hoop Heads Pod and check out the Hoop Heads Podcast Network for more great basketball content including Thrive with Trevor Huffman, Beyond the Ball, The Podcast, Player’s Court, Bleachers & Boards, The Green Light, Courtside Culture and our team focused NBA Podcasts: Cavalier Central, Knuck if you Buck, The 305 Culture, Daily Thunder, Motor City Hoops, X’s and O’s: NBA Breakdown, Spanning the Spurs, LA Hoops, The Wizards Hoops Analyst, Lakers Fast Break & At The Buzzer. We’re looking for more NBA podcasters interested in hosting their own show centered on a particular team. Email us if you’re interested in learning more and bringing your talent to our network.

Be prepared to make note of some coaching nuggets as you listen to this episode with coach and author Harri Mannonen from Finland.

What We Discuss with Jerome Green

  • Growing up in the Redfern Housing Project in Queens, New York
  • Playing sports all over the neighborhood with other kids
  • Gravitating towards running as he got into high school
  • The story of his coach, Mr. Miller, convincing him to return to the track team after he had quit following his first race
  • How and why he ended up being chosen as captain for all the teams he played on
  • Learning to communicate and resolve contact
  • Why his passion in life has always been to save the world and how a counselor recommended he do that one person at a time
  • Studying to be a social worker and eventually realizing that he couldn’t make the impact he wanted to through social work
  • His first coaching job as a student assistant at Oberlin College in Ohio
  • Why he loved Walt Frazier as a kid
  • After working at various universities in student development, coaching his son got him back into basketball
  • Why players shouldn’t train in a “silo”, but rather should learn how to apply their skills in game situations
  • Parents should become more curious about their children and find out what make them smile, don’t just push them into basketball or athletics
  • Asking parents, “Would you like some advice?” before he shares his thoughts with them
  • Players losing scholarship opportunities because of parent behavior
  • Letting parents experience what it’s like to be “coached” from the stands
  • Basketball at the youth level should be about development, fun, and building a love for the game
  • Every player needs opportunities to play. If your a high level player you need to play for a club where you can be seen by college coaches
  • Why it’s important to understand who you are as a player and find the right fit for college
  • Watching basketball leads to more creativity
  • The importance of having a growth mindset
  • Always try to execute to the best of your ability
  • Being receptive to feedback enables you to learn and improve
  • “The principles that I think really help in any area of your life are curiosity, experimentation, practice, being willing to fail and having a growth mindset.”
  • The story of David Nwaba and how he made it to the NBA
  • His opinion of Evan Mobley who played for the Compton Magic and is now with the Cavs

Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!

Become a Patron!
This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is DrDish-Rec.jpg

We’re excited to partner with Dr. Dish, the world’s best shooting machine! Mention the Hoop Heads Podcast when you place your order and get $300 off a brand new state of the art Dr. Dish Shooting Machine!

Prepare like the pros with the all new FastDraw and FastScout. FastDraw has been the number one play diagramming software for coaches for years, and now with it’s integrated web platform, coaches have the ability to add video to plays and share them directly to their players Android and iPhones via their mobile app. Coaches can also create customized scouting reports,  upload and send game and practice film straight to the mobile app. Your players and staff have never been as prepared for games as they will after using FastDraw & FastScout. You’ll see quickly why FastModel Sports has the most compelling and intuitive basketball software out there! In addition to a great product, they also provide basketball coaching content and resources through their blog and playbank, which features over 8,000 free plays and drills from their online coaching community. For access to these plays and more information, visit or follow them on Twitter @FastModel. 

Grip Spritz is perfect for…

Players: Tired of having no traction and slipping on the defensive end of the court or getting beat back door? Not anymore!

Parents: Hate seeing your kids lick their hands to clean the dust off their shoes mid game? Never again!

Coaches: Are you going through costly sticky pad and replacement sheets and players still aren’t getting the traction they need? Grip Spritz solves that!


If you enjoyed this episode with Jerome Green let him know by clicking on the link below and sending him a quick shout out on Twitter:

Click here to thank Jerome Green on Twitter!

Click here to let Mike & Jason know about your number one takeaway from this episode!

And if you want us to answer your questions on one of our upcoming weekly NBA episodes, drop us a line at


[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here tonight with my co-host Jason Sunkle, and we are pleased to welcome to the podcast executive coach and leader of high performance athletes, Jerome Green, Jerome, welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. A pleasure to have you on.

Jerome Green: [00:00:17] Oh, it’s a pleasure to be on.  Glad to be here.

Mike Klinzing: [00:00:20] We are excited to be able to dig into all of the very, very interesting things that you’ve been able to do in your career. You’ve had an opportunity to work with a lot of great basketball players, the grassroots level. You’ve had extensive experience in leadership, which is something that here on the podcast we love to talk about, especially when it comes to coaching and the game of basketball.

So let’s start by going back in time to when you were a kid, tell us a little bit about your upbringing and how you got involved in athletics as a young.

Jerome Green: [00:00:51] That’s great.  I’m I like to tell people I’m a product of Redfern projects, which is a housing project in New York city in [00:01:00] Queens, New York city.

My family moved there back in the late fifties, and it was sort of a retreat from the situation that family’s immigrant families, black, Latino, Puerto Rican, Irish Jewish, where we were in tenements. That was sort of rat-infested. So when the housing authority built these lower-income projects, there was this entire melting pot, culturally of people from various ethnic backgrounds that moved into these projects.

So Redfern projects was a place where I really got a worldview.  without my front door, since I had people that were in his projects that were Irish, Italian, Jewish, Puerto Rican, black, and it was a very vibrant community. It was a very much, you said a community raises a kid. Well, definitely Redfern [00:02:00] projects at that time helped raise me.

And my involvement in sports started from just playing stickball, play stickball do relay races around the projects playing, playing tackle football on the grass with no equipment, no helmets, playing basketball doing everything we’re highly active in, in the winter, we’d have snowball fights.

We would do forts. And so that became, that began my process of really, of movement. That how important movement was to the human body and to your mental. And as I grew older I started identifying what was I good at? Because doing it back in that time, there was nothing there wasn’t training.

Wasn’t something that you thought about. So you, you pretty much ended up doing the sport that you were good [00:03:00] at. So the sport that I was good at was actually running and I could run for days. So we’d have a relay races on the projects. I was always the last late, and no matter where I got the stick, I wound up coming in at first because I had the most endurance out of everyone that was there.

So I could get to stick 102 of the guys back. And my time I finished that mile around the projects I was in first. And so I had a friend named Melanie who actually passed away last year. He was all city player, went to St. John’s was all American great guy, and we sort of grew up together. We weren’t really close, but we were close around sports.

And when I got to high school, ultimately he was the captain of the basketball team. I was the captain of the track team. And up until the time he passed away, he would call me and say, Hey, Kat, how you doing everywhere? That’s that was our connection. And so from there,  if I go back a little bit, all of our sports, [00:04:00] we were done by dads.

There were dads that were in the projects that that would do that with coaches and baseball and basketball and football. And, and it was really great because we had one dad who was a mailman and he finished his route at two o’clock in the afternoon. So he was the one that would take us to games, take us to practice a very generous man.

Nice ice cream. He has, he has six kids. It was all, it was kind of crazy. We’d all power to the station. That’s when seatbelts weren’t a part of it. So we’re just there. Plus some kids in a station wagon go into games and he was, and he was,  just an awesome guy and, and really had this ability to reach every kid, no matter what your ability level was.

And then I was very fortunate when I got to high school to have a really awesome [00:05:00] coach named Mr. Miller and he passed away last year.  and he was, I remember my first race.  he put me on an anchor leg of the 200, 220 at that time. And when I got through the time I had about a 10, 12 yard lead and then.

Losing by 20 yards. And I remember being on a bus going home that day, the feeling of the worst I ever could feel got home and it pretty much decided I w I wasn’t a runner.  I wasn’t any good. And I just, I was, I was my self esteem just plummeted. And so for a week or so, I think, so for fact is a week later, he comes to my classroom and he says, where are you been?

I go, oh, I’m no good. I’m not going to do track. He goes, no, you are. And so he says, we have a meet today. You go into the track. I [00:06:00] go, coach, I’m no good. He goes, you go to the tracker. And he gives it to me in a one mile race. And I was 14 years old. And I ended up coming in third out of 15 minutes. And that’s how I became a miler.

And, but I always, always cherish the fact that. As an adult, he rescued me from this whole distress about not feeling good about myself. And ultimately I became one of the top lenders in my district, not a great runner, but good enough. And ultimately one of the, of going to college and running. And again, I was never a great runner, but I was always good enough to, to be on a team and place in races.

But the funny thing was every team that I was on, I became the captain. And so one time I asked my college coach said, why, why, why a captain is two or three lenders that admitted to me? [00:07:00] And they said that you have the best ability of bringing different people together. You communicate well, you have compassion for everyone.

People trust you. They like you. So that’s why we made captain. And I opened to that, to that point. I thought if you had to be the best to be the least. And what I recognized was that I was the best in communication. That meeting I’m in, I’ve been the best runner, but I was, I had a, a whole person to view that, not a lot, not a lot of kids in a lot of college winners at a time hat.

So it gave me an opportunity to really explore coaching from that standpoint. So that’s where it all began.

Mike Klinzing: [00:07:48] Do you, so I have two questions related to your story. First, let’s ask you just about your coach and the fact that here you were a kid that basically walked away after your first race. [00:08:00] And this coach comes back and finds you and brings you back into the fold and sets your life potentially on a completely different trajectory than who knows where you may have gone with that.

That opportunity. And the fact that the coach was able to impact you in such a way to get you to come back to the team. And I think that’s something that when I think about the power of what we do as coaches or as leaders there’s oftentimes, and that coach, maybe he, maybe he remembered doing that with you, but there’s a lot of things that we do as coaches that we don’t always remember what we did and yet he can have, it can have a huge impact on the players, the kids, the students, the athletes that we have a chance to interact with.

And whenever I talk to coaches, whenever I think about the way that I interact with people, I always try to think of, Hey, the things that I’m doing can really have a huge impact. And I think that part of your story really resonates with me that here’s a coach who went out of his way, took his time to convince you to come back into the [00:09:00] fold and.

He could have easily not done that he could have easily said at this kid, he’s a pretty good runner, but he’s not, he’s not going to be an all American he’s, but something in him said he wanted to go back and reach out to you. And so I think that’s powerfully important. I think it’s a great story for coaches to be able to hear.

And then I guess that was just my own take on that. And then my question for you is when you think about those qualities that your college coach recognized in you, when he talked about your ability to communicate your ability to get along with others and to bring people together, is there anything, a specific incident or something that you remember about your childhood where.

Maybe you realize that about yourself, even if it was retroactively, like when you look back at your life, you say, oh yeah. I remember like when we were on the playground, I would kind of be the kid who organized the games or when there was a dispute, I was kind of the person in the middle. Is there anything about your, your childhood or a story that you remember that kind of led you [00:10:00] towards the skills that you’ve developed as a leader over time?

Jerome Green: [00:10:04] Yeah, I think all of what you just said. So I would settle disputes. He was at a point where sometimes I was, I never forget. I was defending this one friend of mine about a call around. We were playing stickball and I wound up getting into a fight, defending him and he walked away, went back into his, into his building and went upstairs and I’m fighting these two people that as I was defending him.

So I’ve always had this,  interest in and human.  and I think some of that comes from my background. You know, my father was a minister,  and while I didn’t embrace all the religious components, it was the compassion and service to others. So I, I, I sort of, that was a big line of sight. I felt like my purpose and still do my purpose is to serve others through [00:11:00] my abilities, through my talents, through my gifts that I’ve been given.

So I think that which really shaped me in that way was, was, was that model of wanting to help others. And then it was funny. I was always the one organizing things and I’m a being, being people would make me the quarterback and we were playing tackle football in the grass, and I didn’t have it all.

I had no arm, but I was very accurate. So I could do a five yard pass. And it was exactly to the person’s hands and somehow we would win these games with me not being able to throw it along with them. There was no, there was no scouting back then. Jerome. Exactly, exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, I think organizing,  dispute conflict management, I learned that I learned how to conflict.

I always tell people where I grew up.  I wasn’t, I wasn’t the [00:12:00] best fighter, so I had to learn how to communicate very well. I had to learn how to settle conflict in different ways because I wasn’t going to beat anyone up. I wasn’t going to win many fights.  I think it, my entire childhood, I might’ve had three or four fights and I think I’ve lost three of them.

So I had to learn how to other ways and other strategies on how to communicate and how to do a conflict and also how to take on other perspectives. So I always had a, I would look at different lens at and not always agree with what was considered to be.  concept of or considered to be that’s right.

That’s wrong. I always had this more global view of like, well, that’s kind of right. And that’s kind of wrong and, and they both could be accurate. So let me really look at this and see how I really think about it. How do I really feel about it? And I’ve had that from a really early age. I remember being a freshman in college and at a time they used to use to take a an aptitude test as far as what you [00:13:00] wanted to do with your life.

And when I took my test and I went out to the counselor, she laughed and I was 98% that I wanted to work with people. There was no doubt about it. And she said, well, what do you want to do with this? And I said, well I want to save the world. And she said, well, that’s a little bit of a lodge. Why don’t we just work on it.

I didn’t help him one person at a time. And I just always remember that because I had this whole past, I’m gonna save the world, I’m going to save the world. I’m going to do things and save the world. And, and she said, well, I would just do one person at a time and see how that goes.

Mike Klinzing: [00:13:38] Is that when you first started to formalize thinking about some of these skills that you had inside you, where obviously you knew you were able to do those things and you had done them since you were a kid, but was that the first time you started to really think about, Hey, how can I translate these things that I’m good at?

What does this look like? In terms of me choosing a career path, or [00:14:00] me thinking about what I want to do with the rest of my life? When did you start to, when did it start to crystallize for you? That yeah. Working with people, developing leadership. How did you see yourself as let’s say a college student?

Where did you see your career heading at that point?

Jerome Green: [00:14:14] Yeah, as a college student, I first,  I just saw my, I went into social work and the whole goal was I was going to go into social work and a master’s in social work. And, and then I did an internship my junior year. And I realized that the red tape that was involved in doing social work was not for me, that I was too many barriers.

There was too many rules and, and I just wasn’t, I wasn’t fulfilled in that way. So I realized that I could not operate within the constraints of social work. So I remember going in to see a mentor of mine [00:15:00] at the time. And there was Joe Benedick who was the director of student union and student activities.

And I got to know him. I’ve actually was working in a student union. And I said, I went to and said, Hey, can I talk to you? Yeah, that’s it I’m really in trouble here because I’m a year away from graduating. And I realized I don’t want to be a social worker. I said, I don’t know what to do, but I want to help people, but not through social work.

And he said, well, you could do what I do. And I said,

like, I do what I’m doing now. I work with kids. I do see with development, leadership programs, training programs, I go, oh, that’s a job to me doing it. He goes, yeah, that’s what I do now. I’m not working here for free. Cause they actually paid me to do this. So that got me into the whole path of development and, and doing that.

So when I left college, my first job was at Oberlin college [00:16:00] and  

Mike Klinzing: [00:16:01] That’s my wife’s Alma mater.

Jerome Green: [00:16:02] Wow. Yeah. Dassin hall. I was a house director desk of hall.  I became a volunteer basketball coach because basketball was always my passion. But like I said, early on back where I grew up, you went, you need to watch what you did.

Mike Klinzing: [00:16:22] Who was the player you looked up to growing up in New York city, who was your guy that you looked up to when you were a kid?

Jerome Green: [00:16:25] Clyde Frazier all day, all day, Clyde Frazier, all day.  and he was one of my, he was my heroes and actually the player I tried to emulate when I played, believe it or not was bill Bradley.


Mike Klinzing: [00:16:42] So you’d like to move. You’d like to move and cut without the ball and make passes. There you go. Gotcha. See, that takes advantage of your endurance, right?

Jerome Green: [00:16:48] Exactly. Exactly. So as the, all the club, all that I played and even as the adult ball I was able to use [00:17:00] my endurance as a distance runner to defend.

So I was a really good defender I could, and I knew all the tricks. Cause I watched Clyde Frazier growing up and climb the fence. He knew how to grab your shirts. He knew how to do certain things that the rest wouldn’t see. So I emulated a lot of that when I defended. So I remember defending that playing in Callahan, who was a division three All-American and in the men’s league, he was scoring 44 points a game.

And I held them to 16 points and he came to the locker room afterwards and he said, that’s the best defense anyone that would play to me on me. And I’m also bleeding.

Mike Klinzing: [00:17:41] So you got to know what you hate. If you’re, if you’re not the quickest, fastest guy, you better figure out other ways to do that. I can relate to you.

Jason Sunkle: [00:17:50] Did you ever. Did you ever untied anyone choose at the free throw line

Jerome Green: where I grew up that would have been an offensive file, meaning that I got hit in the face.

[00:18:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:18:01] Yeah. Nobody was getting away with that on the playground. Let’s put it that way.

So that was your starting to, into basketball and into coaching and then sort of a formal way to talk a little bit about what that first coaching experience was like for you.

Jerome Green: [00:18:16] It was great because the head coach, his name was coach pin and he was a, he was a really a tough guy from Ohio a big five foot two.

He might’ve been five or three.  and, but he he had, he had this program where we got a lot of inner city kids from Cleveland in Chicago who had good grades and could play basketball. And there was one player that he and I became very close. His name was Harry back down. Harry Matt Thomas and emphasis on the Mac.

 and so he had, he could shoot this before. There was three points. If there was three point is how you would have probably broken some school record. And so [00:19:00] being involved in that was really, really beneficial for me because I got to apply some of my natural skills of leading communicating, but also learn some other skills of X and O’s of basketball.

And pat was a very good technician. So I learned, I learned a few things around X’s and those a basketball and I related, I connected really well with the players and I handled, I handled a lot of,  conflict when there was conflict coach peer would say, Hey, can you go talk to those guys? See, we can work that out.

So I kind of was a conflict resolution person on a team too. And so that was, that was fun, but I was only in Oberlin for a year. Because being the new Yorker, I just couldn’t deal with Oberlin.

Mike Klinzing: [00:19:50] So how’d you get there in the first place?

Jerome Green: [00:19:53]  I just applied for a job.  I applied for a job out of college and they had, they [00:20:00] had a housing job where I was basically managing one of the residence halls and I applied for the job, took the job and what it just, it could connect with Oberlin, with Ohio being a new Yorker and Harry, which was Chicago.

And he couldn’t connect with it, but he was he was playing, but we were sitting in my apartment night after night, I would pack it. It was so dope. And we would lament on the fact that. This wasn’t Chicago and this wasn’t New York. Hey idiots, of course, it’s that but we would sit there every night and talk about that.

And so that didn’t really help. So I left after a year, came back back to the, Wando getting a job at south Hampton college as director of student activities. And again, it’s a volunteer coaching  a [00:21:00] division two school, south Hampton no longer exists as part of the long island university system.

And so, but now it’s part of Stony Brook, but I that’s how I got into coaching more and did that. And then it kind of went away from coaching and got really into student development, working with that. So with jobs at different universities across the country, ended up in California at Cal state Northridge for 10 years and got back into basketball too.

My son, he was eight years old. We were watching the Lakers play Boston. And he said, I want to play basketball. And that’s what got me into coaching for the next 25 years.

Mike Klinzing: [00:21:41] So what’s your first is, so then you’re coaching your son. Is that the first step into sort of grassroots basketball?

Jerome Green: [00:21:46] Yes. Yes. And so it comes to the amount of recreation then got engaged in with a program called hoop masters which is where Brian and I connected.

[00:22:00] And it was with Hoop Masters for 18 years. And working with a gentleman by the name of John Fisher was probably one of the best youth basketball coaches that I’ve met and that he really knows how to teach kids how to play. He doesn’t pigeon hole. Like if you have, if you’re six foot six and you come in, he’s going to teach you how to have it evolve.

He’s going to teach you how to shoot. He’s going to require you to play defense also is not going to say, oh, you’re a tall guy. You you’re going to get the ball. And example of that is a player. But anyway, Kareem, Jamal queen went to play at university of Montana was all conference there player of the year.

And recruiting came to what I brought agreements of hoop masses at nine years old, he was about five foot nine which was tall. And, but green got all the training that the gods got. So every player on the John’s [00:23:00] tutelage was trained to do the same things as Cree went through grade school, middle school, high school college that served him well because he could handle the ball.

He could shoot, he could do things. Korean didn’t grow any toilet in 16. Right, but what happens and youth basketball and it still happens today in 2021, a total kid comes into gym, oh, here, the center and what we need to get a big man. And that, and that player. I know a player, I won’t say his name, but I know a player who was a number one eighth grader in the, in the nation, but he never learned to do anything, but play with his back to the basket.

At eight years old, he was six foot two at 30 he’s, still six foot two. And so he went from being the number one player in the nation in eighth grade to [00:24:00] got a division one scholarship at a high major left, the high major, went to a mid-major and he had a decent career, but he never really developed as a full player because he never was instructed on how to be a full play.

He was never given this skill. To do that. He was, he was cheating. Basically the system treated him and that’s what I see happening to a lot of kids. They are the rankings with everything else. Kids aren’t necessarily given the development that they need. All right. So

Mike Klinzing: [00:24:36] Let’s just answer the big sweeping question right off the bat.

And that is when you think about youth basketball, and I’ve talked to a bunch of different people about this, and obviously you think about the way that you grew up, the way I grew up, things were completely different. You were playing basketball in the playground in the street, you were running races, you were [00:25:00] doing all the things that you described at the top of the podcast and kids today don’t have those same opportunities necessarily to do those things.

So the system is, is different. You talked about how you’ve never even thought about a trainer. I never thought about a trainer when I was a kid. Those people didn’t exist. Job didn’t exist. So when you think about today’s youth basketball system, maybe can you share with us what you see as some of the positives, and then what are some of the negative things that you see as well?

You already mentioned, one of the negatives is that kids can sometimes get pigeonholed just based on their size or their physical development, but just give us the positive and negatives of what you see out there in the landscape with grassroots basketball.

Jerome Green: [00:25:42] Well, there’s, there’s a lot of positives and, and the resources that are available to you as far as hunting, kill your body how to eat, right?

 those things are there, there are a lot of opportunities to develop your skillset. [00:26:00]  there’s a lot of opportunities to, to play organized basketball more. So when I was growing up, there were five within the city of New York, there were only five clump team. Right. There are only five. And so you go to those tryouts, you get cut, you go back to the why you’re good at pal and you play basketball.

And so now there are, yeah, there was a crazy, there’s a cookie, every other block,

Mike Klinzing: [00:26:29] infinite, let’s call it, just call it infinite. How about that?

Jerome Green: [00:26:33] And everybody’s told that they on elite player. Well, as you know, there’s only the passivity of elite players in, in the world is two or 3%, but everyone sold land in programs named themselves X a week, we’re going to X, elite, Y elite.

And that name elite has really hurt the game from a development standpoint for kids, because it really should be about the [00:27:00] development and that a kid should have those opportunities to explore different sports or different activities. And probably at the age.  14, 13, 14 really sought delineating if they need to, if they want to go all in on basketball or another sport or another activity or another, they want to become a musician.

 so one of the positives is that there are some really good coaches out there across the country. Really good coaches,  the civil in Los Angeles. So Reggie Morris, John Fisher coaches am I could go a list of names of people that really have their heart in it and really understand the game.

We know how to teach the game.  and so that’s a positive, there’s more Stu coaches and trainers that are out there. The negative is that a lot of trainers right now [00:28:00] are going for the season. Like you see them on Instagram is like, oh yeah, that’s the crossover between the legs. And I never get, I was coaching a game, a high school game, and we were on a run out on a fast break.

And the player catches the ball. No one’s in front of them. No, one’s at their basket. He’s got clear sailing to the rim. He gets inside. The three point line. Does that step back three? There’s no one in front of him. There’s no one with him is to him. It doesn’t step factory. Of course he misses. And so I called Tom, I go, what?

Why, why did you do that? Oh, I’m working on that. I go, okay. Have a seat. We’ll talk later. And you know, In his mind, that’s what he was working on his trainer. So what happens sometimes for kids is that what they’re learning from their trainer, [00:29:00] the trainer is not showing them how to apply that in a game they’re there they’re training in a silo.

So they’re not training for the game or on how to play, or from an IQ standpoint, they’re becoming more proficient, maybe out principally, but they’re not learning how the entire game. So for a high school player who was pretty good to do that in a game, on a run out, it was indicated to me that there’s a silo effect in a training world and that’s not all trainers.

And I think there’s a very good trainers that, and I think training is, is great. I mean, I wish I looked back now. I was sounded knowing some of the things I know now about the human body and how it works and the different stretches and how to, how to maximize your athletic ability. And so there’s all those things.

The other positive slash negative is parent involvement. I think it was great that parents are involved [00:30:00] in it with their kids’ development. And I also think this is horrible. It’s bad too. My parents were working so they never, they never came to anything. I did. I just, I just went and did it, told them what had happened.

They said, great.  now we have parents that are really involved with their kids and I think they needed to be involved with the kids, but I would really recommend to parents that make that involvement beyond the court, the field, the track, the pool, make that involvement a whole person involvement. So not just around the athletic track, but also about their lives and really get involved in their lives.

And matter of fact, take a step back maybe a little bit more from athletic piece. Let them ask you for input. I think all the really good players. I don’t, I don’t recall any of them having an overbearing parent. So I’m look at magic’s parents. They were working he just went and [00:31:00] got better.  now your bird, Michael Jordan Coby, Coby had a dad was in a week, but just was put into opportunities yet opportunities overseas in the states.

But I don’t recall his dad being overbearing evolved in his development. So what you want to watch for as a parent is how curious is your kid. This is the same strategy that I use with executives. It’s like, if you want to be a really great executive, the women, one thing that I really proport is that you become very curious, not about who that person is.

But what, what are they about? What are they, what, what makes them tick? So the curiosity component is, is necessary both in athleticism and athletic count, and also being an executive of being a great leader or being [00:32:00] a great manager or being a great parent. So become curious about your kid, not what your kid is doing well, not really about what they are, what you want them to do.

What more curious about what are they interested in? What is it that, that you see? Did they smile? What did you see that kind of sets them apart from your needs? What are their needs? So that curiosity is really important.

Mike Klinzing: [00:32:29] It is really important. I think as a parent, I can speak to this at that is. It’s easy to say that it is very, very hard to do that.

Especially if you, as a parent have an interest, or I think as parents, we sometimes feel that the things that we did, if we are happy with our choices that we made in life, and we are happy with the way that our childhood went and the career decisions that we made, we kind of want to share those experiences with our kids.

And I know [00:33:00] before my kids were born, so I have a daughter who’s a high school senior. I have a son who is a going to be a high school sophomore. And then I have a daughter who’s going to be in sixth grade and before they’re born or as. Toddling around as little kids, you have this vision in your head of what you think they’re going to be like.

And in so many ways, I think as parents, we feel that our kids are going to be just like us. And you quickly find out that they are not little clones of who we are and you have to really try to figure out what it is that they like and who they are and what they’re going to be and how they’re going to approach things.

And oftentimes I would say most times those kids end up being different from the way we are. And I think that makes it a challenge. When you start talking about parents being involved in their child’s athletic endeavors. So when you run into a parent who in your mind maybe is a little bit over-involved, is there, [00:34:00] what does that conversation look like?

Do you have a conversation with the parent and say, Hey, you may want to. Back off a little bit either because the kid is feeling too much pressure or it just isn’t good for their career. Or maybe they’re a kid that’s going to be recruited. And college coaches are coming and looking and seeing this crazy parent in the stands, who’s yelling and coaching and doing all these things.

Have you had those kind of conversations and if you have, what are they, what do they sound like?

Jerome Green: [00:34:23] They’re very challenging.  because once parents principle, you want to be watchful and mindful that you’re not trying to tell the parent how to raise their kid, that’s there for sure.  but so what I do is I generally ask, would you like some advice?

And if they say yes, I give him some advice. If they say no, I just keep moving because,  there’s certain defenses that kick in,  and certain areas where people feel this is my domain is not yours. So you have to be very [00:35:00] mindful of that. And what I try to do is I try to work with the past and understanding that was the first degree, second degree, and third degree consequences of your behavior.

So if you’re an overbearing parent, the first degree consequence is that you could actually make your kid not interested in pursuing it. What’s the second degree consequence. The secondary consequence is that your kid loses interest and, and just shuts down and shut you out. And I’ve seen that happen on a lot of levels and a third degree consequences.

Sometimes college. Yes. So you have a kid who very, very good, right? Ta-da and cause crude is now scrutinizing the whole package, not only the kid, but also recruiting the pattern. So they’re looking at what, what level of parent involvement do we have here now? If your kid is the number one job. [00:36:00] In the, in the new one, pink potentially the Jap college coaches are going to be a lot more flexible.

They’re going to be a lot more tolerant for sure. She is one of many that you have to have a little bit something extra because the coach saying I don’t want to spend a lot of time with this kid’s pants or dealing with this kid’s issues. So I’ve seen kids lose scholarships opportunities because of the pack.

So I, I really just tell the story. I let pass aside. I don’t try to,  over direct them. I really ask them, they want the advice. One thing that I really, really helps I’ll never forget in a youth basketball I had,  I had the parents is I think it was 11 year old teen, 12 year old team. I had the parents come out and sit on the floor.

And [00:37:00] I had all the kids stand around them, yelling at them shoot pass through the wall. And the parents are like, whoa. I said, well, that’s what you sound like. That’s what your kid experiences at every weekend when you’re trying to over coach them.  and of course from the stance, but the thing is that I have compassionate for past should have some of my sons.

My son is 29.  I made a ton of mistakes as a parent.  and, and some things I wish I could do over. And so I think has had to have some reflection, like slow down a little bit, reflect on really what your goals are. Is, is that master goals of your kid.  really what your, what is your, what is your child’s?

What is her heart really talents? Is she really passionate about this? Does she really. Is this something [00:38:00] that she, is she a basketball player, whether she played basketball and those are some things that you have to really decide. So compassion,  generosity of spirit, and being willing to, to accept that none of us are perfect or we’re going to make mistakes that parents make you make, you make mistakes as a parent and that’s okay.

I would watch my son’s games and I would try to be as quiet. And I’d actually try to sit away from most parents because. I just wanted to observe the game. I wanted to see how it was doing,  that I have a lot of emotions. Oh, absolutely. I just tried to be silent with it.  and so as parents, one of the things, you know one of the things you hear from parents a lot is come on, come on, come on, play harder shoot, shoot that’s past actually very rarely, yes, your shoe quite a bit.

Thank you. Take them, you take them. [00:39:00] Right. And,  and and some of that is again, that’s, that’s personal between that parent and that child. So when I did was I had an activity, we had all the players go into stance.  nothing. The team was 11 year old, 12 year olds, and it had all the parents go into the floor and I gave them a ball.

And I just said, do whatever you want to do with the ball. And then I had the kids do mimic all of that behavior, pass the ball, shoot it, shoot it, come on, come on. You guys were like, they were like, you could see, they were like, wow, that’s what we sound like. Yeah. Now some people didn’t didn’t matter. They kept the same behavior up, but for a lot of others, they actually changed their behavior.

They actually took a different as different stance. And then there, and then there was a there’s  the two players that played for me with John Fisher miles and Parker Cartwright, and their dad, Ramon was [00:40:00] probably at the loudest voice. And there was, there’s no way you’re going to tell them on what to do.

So you just, what happened is you just tolerated Ramon and Ramon would say,  whatever you wanted to say, you could see what anyone who’s listening.  look at the movie at all costs at all at all.  it’s a movie about grassroots basketball and you’ll see what moan and Parker in that movie. And you’ll see, Ramon is this Ramon he’s, he’s not going to change.

There’s no way that I, or anyone else was going to change the behavior. Luckily, his kids were very good and he had, and he had a lot to do with that. So while he was,  a domineering personality, he, he had two sons that were very passionate about the game and he made sure that every resource that was available to them was it is dear to them.

They’re both playing pro ball in Europe at a high level. [00:41:00] And so who am I to criticize his style? It worked, you know the same thing with the balls the volleyball, he’s actually a pretty great guy.  he has a personality that runs from people the wrong way, but look at the outcome and that his son, his son is going to make the end.

Is this sentence, good to play for an NBA team. So we have to be very mindful that there’s different styles and different approaches. So what works for me? I can’t tell another pack was good. I don’t work for them. I could just say what worked for me. And like I said before, I made my share of mistakes, but it’s really, if you’re going to talk from the stance being knowledgeable about what you’re talking about with Ramon and Lavar Ball, they both were very knowledgeable about what they were saying.

If you didn’t hear things that made no sense, it was like, okay, that that’s, that’s, she’s really right there.  so if you [00:42:00] want to be that person, that parent, that shouts out coach and coach from the stands, just basically make sure that you know what you’re talking about.

Mike Klinzing: [00:42:09] Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s a challenge for any parent.

I completely could relate to you talking about watching your own son play and going and sitting off to the side and trying to stay quiet. And I try to operate under that same emo when I’m watching my own son. I obviously, it’s a lot different when you’re coaching your own son, then you’re coaching and you’re active and you’re involved and you’re, you’re saying things and you’re trying to help your son and your team and all those kinds of things.

But when I put on my parent hat, I do try to go and sit up in the stands and stay quiet and just kind of stay away from the fray of everybody. That’s for every sport, whether it’s basketball or watching my daughters play soccer or anything else that we’ve played over the course of their athletic careers.

I just kind of try to stay to myself. And yet I know that that’s my style. It’s what works for me. It’s what I feel is best. And as you said, there are people that [00:43:00] have differing opinions about how to do it. I think the research would probably tell you. If you’re yelling, shoot at your kid or trying to give them directions that that probably doesn’t help the play better.

But nonetheless, we know that as you said, it’s very difficult to stop somebody who that’s sort of their personality. It’s difficult to get that turned around. And I think all parents, again, you said it earlier in the show, when you talked about that parents want what’s best for their kid, and they’re going to try to raise their kid the best way that they know how, and that’s what that’s what parents do.

They all love their kid and they want to see them be successful. And I think that in the youth sports space and youth basketball space, that’s just, that’s just the way it is. And you’re gonna see all different types of people. And you just hope that as whether it’s a coach at this level, whether it’s somebody who’s running an organization at this level, that you can provide the best opportunity for kids to be successful.

So if you were speaking to a parent just in [00:44:00] general about. Grassroots basketball. And they were looking for an AAU club to play for, or they were looking for a coach that they could play for. What are some of the things that you think make up a good a you organization and make a good AAU coach that parents could look for as they’re trying to make a decision about where to send their kids.

Jerome Green: [00:44:22] Yeah, it really depends on what age you’re talking about. So at the I’ll break it down in the following you’ve middle school, high school.  so at the youth level, the only thing that you should be looking for is can they help your kid develop basketball skills? How do they, how do they communicate?  are they the, all kids get the same amount of attention?

Are they more concerned about their won loss record than they are developing your kid to all kids get a chance to play, to participate in the game to practice because practice [00:45:00] is one thing, but gain participation is really goes a long way in developing how, how it, how are all the players held accountable?

Other coaches, the trainers are they held accountable? Is it a genuine interest in your child developing as a player? No matter if he’s going to be a superstar. Or she’s gonna just play middle school basketball, maybe some high school basketball and go off and do the rest of their life. So that’s at the youth level at the middle school level.

 At that point, I really want to know what, what are you optimizing for? What are you, is your child wanting to play at high school? Great.  what are the capabilities? Are they motivated?  what are the constraints that they have?  what is it, what insights do you have? What’s you have the insight? Well she has no left-hand okay.

[00:46:00] So is she motivated to work on that? So right now I’m looking for specific skill development and then when I get the high school. I really want to know can can, at what point can she be a contributing high school player at the high school level on a high, on a high school team or his high school team?

What can they, what are they good at? Do they have an elite skill? Then if you look at the club situation, what do you want to do? If you have a child who’s projected to be a number one, or to be a high profile player, then you want to put them in a situation with people that know how to put them in the best position to be seen.

 but you never want to. I get a lot of parents who want to be on the Compton magic. I’ve done a lot of work with Compton magic, so they want their kid to be on content magic, but they’re not at that level. And so at times, [00:47:00] sometimes I want their child to just be on the team. But then that’s what they say.

I’ve been, I’ve been there many times. Well, they’re on the team and all of a sudden they’re not playing. They go, well, why is he playing? And why is she playing well? Because she’s not at the point at the level of this player, who’s going, number three in a draft, we went number three in the draft. So it really depends on what you’re optimizing for.

So if you kind of go back after youth grade school level, you’re optimizing for a player development, just skill development, understanding of the game, a little bit of basketball IQ, having a tremendous amount of fun, tremendous amount of fun. Fun has to be part of that equation. And you want you want to actually introduce some other activities to your child.

So have them do another sport then to do an activity. Have them play an instrument. Don’t, don’t get locked [00:48:00] into that. You have to.  busy, be all in, on, on one sport. And then at the grades at the middle school level, now it’s going to time gets less determining do I have a multi-sport athlete that she went up there.

She, is she a golfer and a basketball player? Or is she a soccer player or what, or what is he really showcasing what he’s at? And then we get into high school. It’s really about how do you optimize for your child’s best talents. And when you look at club ball, what kind of club do they need to play for?

If they’re still developing, play for a club that they’re going to get opportunities, they’re going to get reps. They’re going to practice that way about wins and losses wins. The lessons mean nothing. What means where you want to win. And I, and I have an acronym for win, which is working new. You want to win this, the process of your child developing.

That’s what, that’s the win. Now, if you have a high major. Then [00:49:00] yeah, you want to go to a program at Compton magic or EYBL, or any Nike program. So Under Armour programs, and you want to see how you, how you fare against that competition. But you have to really understand what that competition’s about.

That competition is no longer about developing your child. That competition is about putting your child in front of the coaches that is going to offer them a scholarship. And now it’s about putting your child in front of the NBA programs that may take them into the G League before they even go to college.

You know, so you have to really understand that market and really understand is your child, one of those players.  and, and be honest about that. And that’s, that’s difficult.  if it’s not a clear cut case. So I like to say if your son is a dude as average. If they’re really [00:50:00] good, that’s easy. The tough ones are the ones that are right in the middle.

They’re not the, not the, not the above average, but that grade, those are where I see a parents struggle because what happens is they see them, they, they go to the extreme, well, my kids, my kids in the lead kid. So I want to, I want to treat it as a lead player and they’re not quite there yet. And I see what happens is some of those kids don’t develop because they got thrown into the fire too soon and they didn’t get the opportunity to fully blossom.

Mike Klinzing: [00:50:39] What percentage of parents that you’ve dealt with, if you can throw a raw percentage on it, would you say understand the process? Because I think one of the things that I see as being the biggest challenge out there in youth basketball is. The education of parents and helping parents to understand the [00:51:00] last five minutes of what you just talked about is fantastic.

If we could get every youth basketball parent, when kids start playing at five years old and pick up a ball, if they could just hear that last five minutes of what they should be looking for and what proper development looks like, I think we’d be so much better off, but I know in my experience, there’s a lot of times parents, especially parents that are going through this world for the first time, they just don’t have an understanding of what they should be looking for and what makes a good program and how your goal as a parent and the goal of the player themselves, how it changes.

So what percentage of parents that you come in contact with are realistic or understand the process over? You want to frame that when, when you talk to them?

Jerome Green: [00:51:43] Okay, I’ll give you a number. And I would say the percentage of parents that really understand that it’s 10%. That’s fair.

Yeah. And I’ll give you this little story. [00:52:00] It’s a Steven Stephen / Nathan Clark story. So Nathan Clark is a kid that came to me canceled a hoop massive program and was passionate, interested really work. Dad was very passionate and,  Nathan got better and better. I remember a game and I was trying to do a boxing one and I was trying to get supposedly the best player on the team to do the boxing one.

And he would never do it. So I took him out of the game. When I put Nathan in the game, my sister called says, . I said, because Nathan’s going to actually do what I’m asking him to do. And he did. And we went in the game because Nathan actually was coachable. You know, I actually, I said, just stay with that guy wherever you go.

If he goes to the bathroom, you go with him wherever he goes, you just stay with them. And Nathan did a great job, but Nathan’s gonna be playing basketball at real college next year. Here’s the beauty of this story. When I was talking to [00:53:00] Nathan’s dad going into his senior year, before the pandemic, he had a very, very realistic view of what, who Nathan was.

He said, I know who Nathan is. I know that he’s a division three player, and I just want to put them in the best situation. The best school academically we’ll have a chance to play division three basketball. When they Nathan wasn’t all,  CIF player, AVP of his high school team,  the pandemic effected a lot of sports all over the country, but they stayed true to who they were.

Now. I’ll tell you another story. I won’t say names, some story where they said, well, yeah, I got it. And,  just about a month ago, someone, when you help them get a walk on at university. And I said, well the coach said, I knew it was no longer there. Number one [00:54:00] number to walk on is a really interesting spot to be because you have to have a mentality that a lot of kids don’t have.

They think it’s, well, I’m going to, I’m going to go in there. I’m going to show them who I am and they’re gonna they’re going to give me a scholarship and I’m gonna be playing. And it doesn’t very rarely happen as that way is great. ESPN does these great stories every, every year about a kid who gets a scholarship in his senior year.

That’s great. Great, great, great human interest story, but that’s not the way it really works. It really works is that if you’re woke on some programs will treat you equally like the Utah does that. And other programs and Arizona does that. My son, my son was at Arizona as a manager.  but the other programs you’re, you’re just, you’re there your body.

So. I told his parents. I said, look, why don’t you look for division two, division three. You’re looking at the film. I could see that he could play the written two division three. No, no, we’re gonna, we’re gonna go to Arizona and we’re [00:55:00] gonna, we’re gonna go to walk on and, and, and, and advise junior year, you’ll be, he’ll be a starter.

I go, okay, good luck. And so that’s, that’s the how, that’s the paradox of those two mindsets and that Steven Clark, Nathan Clark mindset is 10%. The rest of it is 90%. The other way,

Mike Klinzing: [00:55:24] People forget that. How important it goes back to what you said earlier, where it’s not just about your kid as an athlete.

It’s also about your kid as a student, as a human being and where, whatever college program, whatever level that they can play at and compete, because let’s face it. Look, the reason why any of us played the reason why you play. Back at Redfern, whatever it was that you were playing. And the reason why I picked up a ball and why Jason picked up a ball and we were kids because it was fun and you liked to play.

And so if you’re going to try to go to, but it wasn’t one school was a walk on and you’re not that level of player, even if [00:56:00] let’s put it this way, if you’re walking on at Arizona, you’re probably walking out with 80 or a hundred other kids in all likelihood. And your chances of even sticking around through that is minimal.

But if you do that, you’re not going to play. And so the reason why we all picked up a ball is to be able to play. And I think sometimes parents and kids lose sight of it. I think social media has a lot to do with that. Where you have to look at every day, kids are scrolling through their phone and seeing blessed to receive an offer from here, thankful for my offer from here and when that’s constantly in your face and you’re a kid and you’re seeing that over and over and over again, it starts to, it starts to wear on you think, why can’t that be me instead of looking.

Where’s the right place for me, so I can have a great experience. I can graduate and prepare myself for the rest of my, most of my life. And that’s hard to have that perspective as a 16, 17, 18 year old. And that’s where us as adults and parents it’s, it’s important if we could get more people into that 10% and less than to that 90%, we’d have [00:57:00] a lot better situation for our kids as people and as students and as athletes.

Jerome Green: [00:57:06] Yeah, for sure. I mean, it’s really about, it’s really about, well, I love what you said about the fun part. So Michael Jordan, and never forget listening to a story. He told about how he feels, the thing that has to be developed and, and you, and you flares and you fastball is teaching that the player learning how to love the game.

And he said skills and all that, they’re fine, but you really want to have kids really learn to love the game. You said his skills. Yeah, he was a good athlete and, but his skill development didn’t happen until he got to the university of North Carolina. But because he loved the game, he just was absorbed everything.

He was being taught because the love has grown. So he had, [00:58:00] he had played a lot of sports growing up, played baseball, did some other sports. And so he got the university of North Carolina, his love for the game translated into being in a gym, spinning up shots, working out, putting the weights. And so he really purports that.

It’s really important that you build the love for the game or the love for what you’re doing, whatever it is is it was music, whatever it is that you learned to love that. And then once you have the love, you can then add the layer of skill development to that. And I always thought that was a great, interesting concept because I hate going to the gym and I’ve seen it seen.

Seeing a eight year old, nine year old view train, like a 17 year old high school kid.  cause I wanna see, I wanna see some exploration. I want to see their imagination. I want to see them goofing around a little bit [00:59:00] and not, not out of control, but I want to see them exploring that curiosity that talked about a while ago.

I want that curiosity to grow.  I have a player now that’s at a major university and I watched him, I watched him play and he’s a good player. And then I realize he has no imagination. So I, I contacted him. I said, Hey,  do you watch basketball? Because you know, and he goes, oh a little bit. I said, yeah, you know what?

It didn’t dawn on me until now going into your sophomore year of college. I remember having texts, but texting you and go, Hey, did you see that? You see what Coby did? Or did you see that move? And you say, Aw, I was with my friends.  my friend had a suicidal. My friend had a gymnastic event. And I realized now that all the times I was texting you, you don’t watch a lot of basketball.

So when I [01:00:00] watched you play, you have no imagination, you have skills, but you have no fluidity. And he’s, he’s athletic too. I said, what you don’t, you don’t have any feel for the game. You don’t know how to experiment with your game. You don’t have a player that you emulate. So I said, if I had to choose, we have to choose a player.

What player would you choose that you would emulate? He said Kevin Durant. I go, oh, okay. So again, my point he was six foot six, give it around six, 12, as he says, right? Good. Do me a favor. Can you start watching basketball? And so I was talking to his coach and assistant coach and I said, Hey, I had this conversation with him and he says, Jerome, you have right.

I says, we were talking about the same thing yesterday that if he just watched basketball, that he would be automatically become a [01:01:00] better player because he, I said he has no imagination, so he can, he can shoot, he can handle it. He can dunk, but it’s all robotic. Cause he’s never developed an imagination. A sense of curiosity about if I can do this, what happens if I did.

And, and, and that whole process of failure and how important failure is and getting better. So you, even my executive people that I coach and I coached CEOs, executive VPs mid managers, I’m constantly in pushing for a growth mindset, which has imbued in it failure. So I want to stretch you as your coach, that you’re going to actually fail.

And, but we’re going to actually move into some real rule roll practice. So the movement to rule we’ll practice, there’s going to be some failure, but the failure is not going to be catastrophic, [01:02:00] but it’s going to be enough to get you out of your comfort zone. So it’s so many different parallels between that.

And now Jason, get ready for this. Let’s talk about golf. All right, so

Jason Sunkle: [01:02:11] I’m ready. I’m ready. I’m ready. I’m ready.

Jerome Green: [01:02:14] So in golf, I was working with a client today and I was telling her about that for the last month had been horrible. I mean, I just, and I’m a good putter. I’m a very, that’s actually one of the strengths of my game and I couldn’t make a putt to save my life or the save your life.

Anyone’s I couldn’t make a putt of here extremely frustrated. And so I kept looking at dividends. What was it? My eyesight w what was going on. And ultimately, as I was reflecting, and I I’m really big on reflection tools. So I started reflecting on what’s going on out when I’m there. And I said, well, I said, I tried my hands where my hands were, the putter that I knew didn’t they do a forward press.

Ultimately, [01:03:00] I stumbled upon my stance. And so I narrowed my stance to the point where my feet are almost together. And I’ve been draining putts for the last couple of weeks, like nobody’s business. And I, I know those putts, and even if I missed it, I’m not upset because I executed the part I wanted to execute before I was getting upset because my execution sucked.

And so I was like, wow, this is bad. But now if I miss a putt, like other day, I missed a couple of plus like one went into a hole, came out one kind of skipped. I wasn’t upset. I was, I was good with that because my execution, so execution is a ruined important aspect of anything we do from a leadership standpoint, from a performance standpoint, it’s you don’t get upset if you execute it to the best of your ability, you get upset when you haven’t done that.

And so I always tell players, it’s like, if you’ve done the best that you can do, and you’ve, you’ve tried to apply [01:04:00] everything that you’ve learned and you made a mistake. That’s fine. It becomes an issue when you make the same mistake over and over and over my

Mike Klinzing: [01:04:10] time is talked about with loving the game. Go ahead, Jason.

Jason Sunkle: [01:04:15] I would say my mistake is Constantly trying to hit a driver. That’s my mistake.

Jerome Green: [01:04:21] Well, well, Jason, actually, your mistake is not true is in trying just to get the driver just sweet. Stop trying. It’s like, all right, I’ll try that next time. Yeah, it was, it was it Yoda said there’s no, don’t try. Just do well. I, I think it’s pretty evident

Jason Sunkle: [01:04:42] When I hit the driver better. I’ve had a few beers.

I think it’s pretty evident that I’m not really thinking about it. So that’s what I’m going to go with.

Mike Klinzing: There you go. It takes your mind off it. Yeah. We’re not recommending that for any basketball players though.

Jerome Green: [01:04:58] Jason, but Jason hit upon [01:05:00] something. That’s really, really important that we’re tried is such a disabling word because it has within it some aspects. From my home on neuroscience place. It has as some sort of doubt built into it. I’m going to try to do this, just think about it when somebody invites you somewhere and you tell I’m going to try to make it, what does that really mean?

Mike Klinzing: [01:05:27] I may not show up.

Jerome Green: [01:05:29] Yeah. You’re probably not going to show up so that we’re try sort of, has I, yeah, I shouldn’t even have some newer muscular impact because we basically put some limitations. So I’ll try to, I take the word, try out of my vocabulary as much as I can. It’s times of snips back in like it almost just a dent.

 and I really work on execute. I work on doing, I’m going to do this. I’m going to swing. And, [01:06:00] and then I swing at the best of my ability and the outcome. Isn’t perfect. That’s okay. I’m going to swing the next. I’m going to go into trees, get the ball, hit the ball out. I have this adage that I always say to people that you will say, what do you have a shot? I said, I always have a shot. It may not be the one I want, but I have a shot.

Mike Klinzing: [01:06:24] So much of it is mentality. I mean, I think that goes to anything that goes to basketball. It certainly goes to golf. It goes to business. It goes to life. It goes to being a student. I think if you can approach things with the right mentality and we see, and I’m sure you see it all the time, people that just have an approach from a mental standpoint that has them halfway defeated before they even start, because they just have not developed the right mindset to be able to put them in position, to be able to perform at their best.

And I [01:07:00] think it does go back to you told that Michael Jordan story about developing a love for the game. And I think it, as you said, it extends beyond. Just a metaphor for basketball, but it can be a metaphor for anything where you think about yourself, or I think about my kids and the things that they spend time on, the things that they tried for a little bit, and then they didn’t love it.

And so they put it aside instruments. My kids all tried an instrument. They practiced it, but not a phone found a love for an instrument. And so after a certain point, their ability to play that instrument just plateaued because all they did was practice just enough to be able to play whatever notes or song that they had to play in order to pass their class or get an a on the, but they didn’t, they didn’t put in the extra time to become good at it.

And anything that you’re going to Excel at, you have to love it enough to put in more than just what everybody else who has. An [01:08:00] average affection for something you have to put a lot more time in it, if you’re really going to be successful. I think there’s a lot of people in life that kind of go through it without ever finding that thing that they love, that they’re going to pour themselves into.

And whether it’s basketball, it’s golf, it’s business, whatever it is. If you can find that love for it, you’re really going to give yourself a great chance to Excel.

Jerome Green: [01:08:20] That is, yeah, that is a really, that’s really great cause I totally 125% agree with that. And before the pandemic, I made this decision that I was going to really invest in my development as an executive leadership and communication coach.

And so I saw it signing up for different classes and programs and I always had a natural ability to coach, but hadn’t really taken a lot of. Programs. And hadn’t done a lot of courses so that my journey began before the pandemic and my, what I was [01:09:00] optimizing for was ultimately, I decided that I wanted to be the greatest, a great coach.

I just don’t want to be a good coach. I want to be a great coach. I want to be a great, I want to transform people. So going back to way back to the story I told about being going in my freshman year of college, of saving the world I wanted to, I still, that’s still a passion of mine, not sinking the world, but really working with each individual.

And so I really, for me to work on that for me to work with someone on their growth mindset, I have to have my own growth mindset. I have to have my own process that I’m going to have to have my own set of barriers. So there’s no better way as a coach and for me to model that. So as I started this journey, I ended up in different programs.

And I finally, and I found one that really resonated with me and that has really expanded my coaching ability and, and is a community of other coaches in there that are all excellent. And they’re all very good [01:10:00] coaches. And so the learning and the passion and the low. So going back to Michael Jordan, I love assisting people.

I love helping people transform. That’s my passion. So now I’m adding to my toolbox of adding to that and I’m growing and it’s expanding and it’s passionate. I find myself watching,  we do something called Gainesville within the coaching. And then, so what happens twice a month? We have these coaching demonstrations and we do gain from, we watch film and it’s last week we watched the film and this really good coach was a disaster.

It was, it was so humbling, but his vulnerability of putting herself out there and then doing the review and it really awakened something in me. And then like, you know what, I have to become more vulnerable. And so I think I put myself out there and stress. Well, I’m getting feedback that may not be like, oh, Jerome, you’re great.

It may be a grump shouldn’t you need to work on this. [01:11:00] So it’s really the other piece of that. Tying it back into athletics is being able to see around corners. But the only way you’re going to see around a corner is that you’re gonna have to be willing to listen to feedback. And so you may not see where you’re going, but somebody else might have been there or they might see something that you don’t see.

So being receptive to get that information.

Mike Klinzing: [01:11:21] That’s so true. I mean, I think that so many of us we grow up in, I don’t know if athletics maybe mitigates this to some degree. Cause if you’re, if you’ve been in athletics, you obviously have gotten coach and you’ve gotten constructive criticism. You’ve probably gotten some unconstructive criticism over the course of your life as well.

But I think generally speaking, a lot of people are afraid of a performance review. They’re afraid of watching themselves on tape. They don’t want to hear it. Those negative things, because they feel that it’s a little bit of a personal attack or it lowers their self-esteem or it doesn’t make them feel as good about what they do on a daily basis.

Whereas I think [01:12:00] the best of the best when you think about from a basketball perspective, I’m sure it’s equal in the business world that the very best players are the ones who are breaking down and looking for the most minuscule mistakes that they can. Correct. But they’re trying to work those margins because they know that those margins are where, when you’re, let’s just take it at the highest level, if you’re an NBA player, the difference between a top 10 player in the NBA and a bottom 10 player in the NBA, that difference is pretty small when it really comes down to, it’s just a matter of that attention to detail and that little extra time and all those things.

And so it’s just, I think that if you can figure out a way to. Self analyze and continue to, as you said, have a growth mindset. I think that puts everybody who does that in a much better position to succeed. I just don’t think there’s any doubt about that.

Jerome Green: [01:12:56] Yeah, no, [01:13:00] it’s that principles that I think really help in, in any area of your life is curiosity experimentation practice being willing to fail and having a growth mindset and sort of the growth mindset is probably the umbrella and all those things fall under it.

So when people hear growth mindset, they’ll go, oh yeah, I’m going to go out there. I’m going to be this. And I’m getting that. I’m going to get that Mamba mentality, blah, blah, blah. But what made Kobe Kobe was he all those other things I listed. That’s what ma that’s the, that’s the Mamba mentality he’s very curious.

He’s very passionate. He he, he, he, he was, he’s willing to take the last shot if he went in, he was going to take that shot.  so it’s really that, that, that growth mindset [01:14:00] has built in it, a mechanism that prepares you to be successful.  but you have to really understand what matters to you. If, once you determine what matters to you, where do you want to put your attention?

So if it matters to you, if you decide at eight years old, like I was watching skateboarding and the Olympics. What is it? 12 year olds winning gold medals, but they determined at eight years old that dismantled to them and they put their attention there and what’s green about skateboarding.

Very few of them have coaches. They, they basically watch each other and they just relate and they come up and, and it’s, it’s the craziest thing. I mean, the coach had these kind of bravery that these kids have at 12 and 13, 14 years old, the boys into girls. I mean, I think it’s so fascinating. And I think part of that is I saw what I saw to express [01:15:00] was his freedom that sometimes organized sports takes away some of that initiative.

And so at skateboarding it’s like going out and playing, like I did it reference projects. I didn’t have anybody telling me how to play, what, the way I just explore it. And experimented now would have been helpful if I had more instruction, but did it kill me? And I didn’t. And that’s why I look at the skateboard is I see that they watch each other and they learn from each other and they appreciate each other.

Mike Klinzing: [01:15:32] There’s a great lesson to be learned from a balance between the two where you have some formal instruction, but you also give kids an opportunity to have that free play. And that experimentation like you described, I think if you can put players, put kids, put people in a position where they have some formal training, but then they also, aren’t just everything’s by the book.

It’s more, I can also take those skills and then apply them in more of a free-wheeling [01:16:00] environment. I think that’s where you end up getting the best of both worlds without, without question.

Jerome Green: [01:16:06] Yeah. I’ll tell you a story about a guy who’s in the NBA right now. David Nwaba just signed a new deal with Houston.

He was here. He was in Cleveland, in Cleveland. Okay. You go to David Navarro. I don’t. Okay. So David Noah played for me.  his, his last year in high school played at my club. Well, you went to a school called university high school, which is in the Western league at a time that he was there. The Western league consisted of Westchester high school Palisades high school and Fairfax, whether it’s Tufts programs in that chevre, Risa, mills, not a great players came out of those sort of schools.

University was a good school, but you know, they were okay. So when, when, when David came and played for me when I’m putting the content magic and I was like, [01:17:00] oh yeah, he’s okay. But you know, what does he do? And I said, well, he just does a lot of everything, but he knows how to go find the ball really. So we were in a game in Vegas, somebody takes a shot, it goes off the back room and starts, goes up high back towards the back.

All of a sudden, you see this guy like Superman flying through the air, catches the ball and dunks it. I turned to the coaches. I said, that’s what he does. And so the David Baba story continued. So one day my coaches called me and said, Hey Dave is not true enough for our drills and our workouts.

So that’s all, let me find out what’s going on. So I called Davis, Hey David.  the coach is saying, you’re not showing up for the workouts. He said, coach. He says, I workout every day. I go, really? So what do you do this as well? I go on a bus and I drive around the city. I find the best pickup games and I play in them every day.

So I called the coaches back. I said, he’s working out just not the way that we prescribed, but he has his own prescription. [01:18:00] Give it, went on to play the original college goal. And it was a journey before that he went to a division two in Hawaii. NAFTA came back, played at Santa Monica college, went to Cal poly.

 he calls me his senior year and he says culture wants me to handle it.  Paul, this year not shoot, you know what is he trying to do to me? I said, you go back into that office and you tell coach things. You tell that you really appreciate it. So you learn how to handle the ball. Cause out of college, I get calls from, from  agents, they said, Hey, we’re trying to reach David, but he won’t return our calls or whatever.

So I called David against said, Hey, what’s going on? Is his agent said, you want me to go into closed as well? None of them think I can play in the NBA and I want to play in the NBA. So I don’t want to talk to them. So I called them, I called the agent back, said, Hey, he wants to play in the NBA.  and they say, well, good luck with that.

Now you just signed it for you. A deal. He’s already been five years in the league and he’s going to have a 10 year career [01:19:00] in the NBA. And the only person that believes in David I met with the other day was going to be an NBA player. I did see his last,  Julie game. I was in Arizona.  once the game you had like 28 points.

And at the end of the game, I said, David literally you actually on the corner three away from having to shout at the league. The next day he gets called into the Lego office and magic Johnson was still there. He thought she was going to get cut and they’d give him a 10 day contract. That’s a David that while the story, David, no one really trained David.

He just had this innate drive and he believed, I didn’t even, I didn’t even believe this. I wasn’t going to get in his way that he was going to be an NBA. He did that all on his own, not his parents, not me, not anyone else. David Nwaba is in the VI because David and Noah believed in David Nwaba.

Mike Klinzing: [01:19:58] Well, there’s no more powerful [01:20:00] beliefs than that belief in yourself.

If you don’t start with, if you don’t start with that. It’s hard to sell anybody else on your dream. If you’re not sold on it yourself, and you’re not willing to throw yourself into it a hundred percent and that’s a credit to him that he was able to overcome. We see so many guys now that have that first-class pedigree from the time they’re 12, 13 years old.

They’re kind of been anointed as the next guy. And here’s a kid who obviously didn’t have that and still was able to achieve a dream that so many kids out there have of eventually playing in the NBA. So we have to ask you because we’re here in Cleveland and Evan mobiley is now here in Cleveland with us.

What can you tell us? Why should, why should we feel good that Evan mobiley is here as a Cleveland Cavaliers today?

Jason Sunkle:  Mike, he had a nice game. It looked like today. He didn’t shoot. He didn’t shoot the ball well, but,  to pretty well,

I thought we’re definitely excited. So just, just back up our excitement.

Jerome Green: [01:20:57] Yeah. One is a great human being. [01:21:00] That’s number one.  people doubted him too. I remember when he was in seventh grade, we put him on an automatic grade team. He got bumped around and knocked at basement one time on the floor. Then he did standing up, he was skinny, nothing, but he had we knew that he was going to be a pro everywhere.

There was no doubt about that. He is probably, I don’t know how far his ceiling is. He’s a great human being. He works hard. He loves the game. He comes from a great family. He’s been, he’s been on, on the stage from the ninth grade all the way, all the way to USC. He can handle pressure. He’s got a good head on his shoulders.

Uh he’s uh he’s  he’s never, ever. Ever big time to anyone. So he’s in a elite [01:22:00] pedigree, but doesn’t have any pedigree. Behavior is a down to earth kid. That’s going to have a great NBA career.

Mike Klinzing: [01:22:08] That all sounds good. We are excited to be able to have a chance to have him as a part of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

And we’re excited to be able to watch him develop and hopefully develop into the kind of star that the only way we get those stars and Cleveland nobody’s coming here as a free agent. So we better, we better. So we better, we better draft them and develop them and put them in a position to be able to be successful.

So we’re certainly excited to see what’s going on. Jerome. It’s been a pleasure. We’re coming up close to an hour and a half. So I want to give you a chance before we get out to just share how people can reach out to you, how people can find out more about all the various things that you’re doing from your executive coaching, to your involvement, with the Compton magic.

Just talk a little bit about, or share with us how people can reach out and find out more about what you’re doing. And then I’ll jump back in and wrap things up.

Jerome Green: [01:22:57] Okay. Yeah, you can reach me at, [01:23:00] That’s my website. You can also reach me at

That’s my email.  you can also find me on LinkedIn on the Jerome Green and at LinkedIn, I’m trying to figure out how to get rid of one, but the one that you want is the one that is my business ones. It was just Jerome Grenn and it’s Jerome Green coaching and that you’ll see everything I’m involved in.

You can also reach me on, on Instagram. Under Jerome’s view or you can reach me and Instagram on the basketball culture.  Those are two of my Instagrams. I don’t spend much time on Facebook anymore. So those are the best way to reach me.

Mike Klinzing: [01:23:46] Awesome. Jerome, we cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule to talk to us tonight.

It’s been a pleasure to learn more about you, learn more about your journey. I think we touched on a lot of things that parents, coaches, and players, anybody who’s out there as part of our [01:24:00] audience can benefit from some of the wisdom you were able to share with us tonight. So thank you. And to everyone out there.

Thanks for listening. And we will catch you on our next episode.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *