DAVID SLOAN – CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY MEN’S BASKETBALL ASSOCIATE HEAD COACH COACH – EPISODE 796

Website – https://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/mbkb

Email – dmsloan@andrew.cmu.edu

Twitter – @Coach_DSloan

David Sloan is the Men’s Basketball Associate Head Coach at Carnegie Mellon University where he also serves as the Tartans’ recruiting coordinator.

Sloan came to Carnegie Mellon from Maine Maritime Academy, where he served as the top men’s assistant coach for two seasons and head recruiter.

Prior to coaching the Mariners, he served as assistant coach at Boyertown Area High School in Boyertown, Pennsylvania. In addition, Sloan has coached at numerous camps, including the Tom Izzo Basketball Camp at Michigan State University, as well as an instructor at the prestigious Hoop Group.

Sloan is a 2014 graduate of Alvernia University with a Bachelor of Science degree in athletic training. While at Alvernia he was a four-year player for the Wolves basketball team.

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Get ready to take some notes as you listen to this episode with David Sloan,  Men’s Basketball Associate Head Coach at Carnegie Mellon University

What We Discuss with David Sloan

• Playing 5 sports in high school, including volleyball and riflery
• Why his high school coach had his team drink a dixie cup of Coke at halftime
• His experiences as an athletic trainer
• Why his experience coaching at Boyertown High School made him realize he wanted to recruit and coach at the college level
• “Ever since I became a coach, I’m not sure I can ever watch a sporting event for pure enjoyment ever again.”
• How his connections helped him land his first coaching job at Maine Maritime Academy
• “Try and get the no as soon as you can. Because if you don’t hear no, that means you’re closer to yes.”
• Learning and doing everything as a D3 asistant
• “Can we find a way to find the small victories and keep moving?”
• “We have to take one step at a time. We’re going to get to where we want to get to if we remain committed.”
• “We’re at a good school. We’re getting a good education. We’re going to get a good job, right? Let’s have some fun in these four years.”
• The strange saga of his hiring of at Carnegie Mellon
• The early recruiting timeline at Carnegie Mellon
• Recruiting the Ivy League camps because of the academic component in recruiting
• “You have to know what you do really well, and you have to do it.”
• “You have to know what you do really well, and you have to be aware enough and confident enough to stick to it.”
• “Versatility doesn’t come from having 15 guys that can do everything. It comes from having 15 guys that do what they do really well.”
• “We call it the ABCs… We’re looking for academics, we’re looking for basketball, we’re looking for cultural fit.”
• Helping guys find their role and how ego plays a part in guys buying in
• Celebrate and really value every role
• Starting every recruiting visit with a meeting between a current player, a recruit, and the recruit’s parents
• Getting player input in a variety of sittuations on and off the court
• Being intentional about developing leaders and giving every player an opportunity to use their voice
• “I hope that I’m able to be part of an impactful four years.”
• “The career development, the academic experience, the networking, the college growth and experience all of that. How can we do a better job of providing that same experience while also finding ways to win more games?”

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THANKS, DAVID SLOAN

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TRANSCRIPT FOR DAVID SLOAN – CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY MEN’S BASKETBALL ASSOCIATE HEAD COACH COACH – EPISODE 796

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello, and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here with my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight, and we are pleased to welcome David Sloan associate men’s basketball head coach at Carnegie Mellon University. David, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.

[00:00:15] David Sloan: I appreciate you having me on.

[00:00:16] Mike Klinzing: Thrilled to have you on.

Looking forward to diving into all the things that you’ve been able to do in your basketball career thus far. Let’s start by going back in time to when you were a kid. Tell us a little bit about some of your first experiences with the game, what you remember from an early age.

[00:00:29] David Sloan: Yeah, well, like a lot of people I was one of those guys that just kind of had a ball in my hand pretty much from the moment I could walk.

I grew up playing a million different sports. I mean, I was in season pretty much all year long. And so unlike some other people, I didn’t really grow up in a super kind of sports oriented family. Now my, my mother played division three basketball, so that’s kind of where I got my love for the game.

But I did everything and going through high school, I was playing five sports through high school. And so it was just a constant in season, a constant competition. And it’s really something that I just continue to seek out. And like I’m sure a lot of people that end up in the game of basketball, Something just always drew me back and so no matter what season I was in, it was getting home and getting a ball in my hands or, or watching a game or trying to find some way to kind of tie everything back into basketball because that’s, it’s just what I, I kind of fell in love with.

[00:01:37] Mike Klinzing: Explain to me how you played five sports in high school.

[00:01:39] David Sloan: Well, I had a fall sport, a winter sport, a spring sport while playing my, so I played soccer I played basketball and I played volleyball. While in the spring I also played baseball in the local town league. And then I also played a did a fifth sport on my own kind of all year round.

And that was competitive riflery. And so I, I did that and that was completely on my own. It wasn’t a, a school sport. But I did that kind of all year round.

[00:02:12] Mike Klinzing: All right so I got two things. Riflery. Where does that come from?

[00:02:15] David Sloan: Well, I, I grew up in central Pennsylvania and so my family was big in, in hunting And that kind of stuff.

And so just kind of always been around it. And then my older brother got involved and I kind of followed suit. And so it was, it was a lot of fun. Definitely took me some places I never thought I’d be all right.

[00:02:34] Mike Klinzing: What about the volleyball? This is one of the things that I find to be sort of interesting when it comes to the relationship between guys who play volleyball and I don’t know a ton of volleyball slash basketball players.

Mm-hmm. But I do know there are several that I’ve known in my life, and we’ve had I think one or two maybe on the podcast that we’ve talked about how just the training for volleyball and what it does to your ability to improve your vertical jump and just sort of the correlation between the two sports.

How do you feel like that volleyball experience impacted you as a basketball player?

[00:03:08] David Sloan: Well, I think there’s, there’s a natural progression kind of between the two, especially with footwork. You know footworking having to get behind the ball, having to pass your approaches for, for spikes all of that.

It was such it, it, it was just so detailed and so naturally that kind of, I, I think that crosses over really easily. But for me I started as an outside hitter until they figured out I couldn’t jump. So they moved me to a setter pretty quick. And but I think that for me, I loved it the decision making the, the trying to feed people, understanding which hitters hadn’t touched, touched the ball needed to get going, where they needed it to be what they liked.

And then the strategy of on the court trying to Mess up the defense and beat blocks. And I mean, it’s just like a point guard, right? Trying to run a team in, in basketball. And so for me, I, I loved it. It was a great sport. I had a lot of fun, but I think there’s a lot of carryover both f you know, footwork and technique, but also in the, in the strategy of the game.

[00:04:14] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, it’s interesting. It’s not really necessarily what. Again, I don’t claim to be any type of volleyball expert. I was going to say, yeah. I just try to whack the ball back over the night. So you’re saying, are you saying there’s a little bit more to it than that? Is that what you’re trying to get at here?

[00:04:25] David Sloan: You know, just a little bit. I’m not sure I even went very deep, but there is a little All right. That’s good.

[00:04:35] Jason Sunkle: I swear Ben Stiller what? Said, it’s just a game, but I don’t know if he said this, meet the parents. Right. That was meet the parents, Mike. Sounds that sounds right. That sounds right. Have you seen that movie, Mike?

I know it might be a little foggy for you.

[00:04:43] Mike Klinzing: I don’t know. I believe, I believe I’ve seen it. That came out a long time ago. So there’s a good chance like two three, 2004 there. I think there’s a good chance Mike has a blind spot came out before my kids. Mike has a blind spot. David

[00:04:54] Jason Sunkle: Mike’s blind spot for movies is anything once the kids was sort of born, he doesn’t know anything.

[00:05:00] Mike Klinzing: Pop, pop culture references pre 2004. I’m good. I got you covered. I can well name stuff off.

[00:05:05] David Sloan: off. That’s, that’s when the movie movies have to start getting censored, so I That’s true too. I can believe that.

[00:05:09] Mike Klinzing: That is definitely true. All right, so when you think about your time as. A high school athlete, and obviously you’re involved in all these different sports, you’re getting exposed to lots of different coaches.

Do you have a particular coach, and maybe it’s not even a basketball coach, but do you have a particular coach that sort of stands out to you that somehow had an influence on you later in life that caused you to think maybe you wanted to go into coaching? Is there something or somebody that sort of fits that bill for you?

[00:05:36] David Sloan: I wouldn’t say in particular because I was lucky enough, I had a lot of people a and so definitely I had a lot of coaches that I could take little things from, whether it be in preparation, whether it be what it takes to be successful you know, discipline or as simple. I mean, our, my volleyball coach, you just were scared of her.

And so understanding I better do what I need to do And stay out, stay out of trouble. And so I was lucky enough And I think that’s part of the benefit of me doing so much and being involved in so much. I just had a lot of people in my life that that helped. And I didn’t need that one or two coach to do everything for me.

I had enough people in, in that village, if you will, that I could take those, those bits and pieces from everybody I was interacting with and kind of that helped shape me as an athlete. So I had a lot of experience to bring in when I did decide to get into coaching,

[00:06:33] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, absolutely.

Especially when you think about the different perspectives coming from different sports and then obviously I’m sure in all the different sports you had a different role.  And I think that’s always beneficial when you start talking about being able to relate to players and kind of where they are in the totem pole of your team.

I think the more sports that you play, I think that’s one of the things that as a multi-sport athlete that serves you really well is just your ability to understand sort of different roles. And then as a coach, I think you can relate to players. When you think about your time as a high school basketball player, do you have a memory that stands out to you when you think back to your high school years as a basketball player?

Is there one thing that pops out at you? That, man, that’s what high school basketball was all about for me.

[00:07:19] David Sloan: Yeah. I was in a pretty unique position, especially for basketball that. I had a different varsity coach every year in my high school career, and we, we went through a ton. It, it just a lot of different circumstances And by senior year being at a very small, I mean, I went to a public school that graduated 166 kids.

And so being at a very small school, it, it’s the same as a lot of small town u s a right? The, the same kind of group of kids play play every sport. And so we had a really good senior class my senior year was the best year in every sport that we had that, that we experienced in our four years.

And so going into my, my senior year for basketball we actually had the winningest head coach in high school history come out of retirement just for our senior season. And he again, we kind of had that, that turnover coaching wise And he said, Hey, I’ll come back for one year.

Give yourself time to find another coach for after, but this is a special group And we want to win. And so he came back and man, it, it was funny it just a blast from the past with some of those og habits and superstitions, if you will, like the best one.  I still laugh to this day.

Everybody had to have a Dixie Cup of Coca-Cola at halftime, and his belief was you needed just a jolt of caffeine to come out of halftime. And I was like, coach you there’s science that says this isn’t right. And he goes, you see how many games we won? I said, yep. And I grabbed my Dixie Cup every game.

And so it worked. I mean, we, we got back to the state tournament for the first time in, in a while. And so that for me, just kind of going through the turnover, going through different styles, going through ups and downs, but having a one, having a coach that wanted to come out of retirement, because he, he saw something in our squad.

And then be able to reach, it’s a memory I’ll never forget. That’s a great

[00:09:15] Mike Klinzing: That’s a great tory with the Coke. It’s funny how coaches kind of get things in their head and they just sort of do it and that’s the way it is.

[00:09:25] David Sloan: Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:28] Mike Klinzing:  It’s funny because when I, like when I was playing at Kent, I was there from 88 to 92 and we used to have steak before every meal and I probably never told my coach, just because you talked about being afraid of your coach. Well, that was me and that was all of us on the team back then. But I, I never would’ve said, Hey coach, I think there might be some science that says we probably, steak might not be the best thing to eat, pregame, but I could eat pretty much anything except for pizza.

So I didn’t care. I’m like, Hey, we’re having steak again. Cool. I mean count, count, count me in.

[00:09:57] David Sloan: But yeah, never argue when they offer steak.

[00:10:00] Mike Klinzing: Nah, that’s for sure. Yeah. I’m like, I think I’ll take that. I’ll take the steak. So, yeah, it’s funny just how coaches kind of get in there, they get something going that’s, that’s worked.

And hey, science be damned. Let’s move on and just do what we do, what we do and keep winning games. Did you always have in mind that you wanted to play college basketball? Obviously as you’re playing all these different sports, you said that basketball kind of was the one that you kept gravitating back to, but did you have in your mind as a high school player that you wanted to go and try to play college basketball?

[00:10:27] David Sloan: I’m not ashamed to admit it was not my best sport but it was always the sport that I wanted to move forward with. And so always kind of going through the process, I, I didn’t know what it took it’s kind of that pipe dream, but you never really know what you have to do.

But it, it was always the sport I wanted to move forward with going into college. I always wanted to be a college athlete. And just kind of going through the years, it just always came back to basketball.

[00:10:54] Mike Klinzing: What was the recruiting process like for you? How’d you make your decision?

[00:10:58] David Sloan: Yeah, so I wasn’t really recruited a whole lot.

I kind of made, made a decision early that I knew I wanted to play. But for me, I knew I needed to make an academic decision first. And so I kind of limited I was pretty intentional with my college search. I looked at four different schools got to the end for a visit, came down to four different schools.

Two of them were for sport management and two of them were for athletic training. And I figured, let me take a look and as I figure out what I want to study you know, on the visits, I met with the coaches and kind of the, the normal walk on. You know, tight path and for me, and I tell this story every, every year with recruits because I did my third visit and I was ready.

I said, said to my mother, I’m here, let’s send the money in. I’m good. And you know, I kind of rolled my eyes at her a little bit and she said, no, let’s just do our last our last visit. And I said, alright, why? Right. I’m set. Here’s where I’m going. And. No, let’s do the last visit. And so I, I did my last visit and it was no lie, about a half hour into the campus tour of my last visit.

And I said, thank God I didn’t my send my money in. I’m coming here. And that’s, and that was at Alvernia University, which is where I ended up. And so the recruitment I met with Coach Miller kind of during my visit, and as I was looking to the school and I got an opportunity, he kind of said, Hey, if you, if you want to be a part of the team we got a spot for you.

Can’t promise you anything, but there’s a spot if you want it. So I got lucky that I found a, found a school that I really could, as a walk on, I really could find the academics I wanted, join a really successful basketball program too. So at that point you’re thinking athletic training?

Yep. So that’s when I made the decision for, for Alvernia, it was a for bachelor’s in athletic training.

[00:12:52] Mike Klinzing: At what point during your college experience do you start thinking about coaching?

[00:12:56] David Sloan: Well, my, my decision to coach actually started when I was about 10 years old. Okay. So there’s, there’s a funny story from Little League Baseball and I won’t bore you with the entirety of it, but pretty much my coach didn’t call a sign that I thought he should have called.

So I called time out as the 10 year old coaching first base, and I walked over to him and I said, you forgot to do this. And he told me to get the hell back to first base, and I wasn’t allowed coaching again. So it, it was pretty clear early on that you know, I, I, I kind of had that, that I, toward strategy And really kind of took the coaching path even kind of before I realized it.

But, but I always thought that way. And so actually when I was looking at schools I always wanted to coach. Really I was finding what my backup plan would be. And so I obviously knew I had to go, go to college And wanted to play. And so it was kind of , Hey, if coaching doesn’t work out, what do I want to do?

And that’s how I kind of fell upon athletic training and really loved it, but it was always kind of a plan B.

[00:14:01] Mike Klinzing: So after graduation, you continue on at Alvernia as a grad assistant mm-hmm. In the athletic training field. And so you get your master’s in business administration at that point.

Are you still thinking athletic training? Are you looking at, Hey, what are going to be my opportunities once I have this master’s? It’s going to open up some more opportunities on the coaching front. Just where was your mindset at that point?

[00:14:24] David Sloan: Yeah. My senior year, I was starting to look at some grad programs.

I always wanted to do a grad school right away. I’m definitely somebody that I, if I stopped school, I probably wasn’t going to go back. And so I wanted to get it out of the way right away. And so I looked at a couple positions for coaching. I. And then obviously a couple at just honestly finding a way to get my grad school paid for.

And I was lucky enough my program director had approached me and offered me the spot to stay at Alvernia early on. And it was kind of a Hey, the spot’s yours if you want it, but we have to know now. And this was before, anybody was hiring for GA’s with coaching, and this is January.

And so as I thought about it, I kind of said to myself, Hey, I have to take my master’s and I have to take the opportunity that’s here. You know, I always wanted to coach, but I can wait two more years. A and so I, I took that, but I was lucky enough to, at the same time, to be able to join into a high school staff.

So I, I was able to start my coaching career at the high school level while I was a GA athletic trainer too.

[00:15:37] Mike Klinzing:  As you’re thinking about where you want to go with coaching and you coach at the high school level, I think there’s clearly some guys that get to high school, they’re like, oh, I love this high school piece of it.

And some guys have gone to school for education teaching, and then there are other guys who get into college and they’re like, man, the college space where I’m able to focus on basketball, at least theoretically, right? You’re focusing on basketball all day as opposed to somebody having to teach in a classroom.

So what did you like about your experience as a high school coach and then to go along with that, was there any thought that maybe that would be the spot that you would stay trying to be a high school coach?

[00:16:17] David Sloan: Yeah. I loved my two years. I joined a great staff And I kind of got lucky.  I was working at camp at Alvernia and the varsity coach for Boyertown, Mike Ludwig. He was running the camp and we were just kind of talking and he was talking about how all of his assistant coaches had all played at that high school. Everybody was kind of in that program and he wanted an outside point of view and I was kind of like, well, I’m also looking for a coaching job.

You think you have a spot. And so I got lucky. I joined on, I was an assistant for both JV and varsity and did a lot of, started to do a lot of film breakdown And scouting and some of that, as well as the player development. And so really kind of dove in and he was awesome.

Really accepting the new ideas and bringing this outsider in and right out of school. And it worked really well. But I’ll tell you the, the whirlwind that I dealt with those two years solidified that I wanted to get back to college. And we went from my first year running the Wisconsin swing offense with 2, 6-8 guys.

And our leading scorer ended up being our freshman six one shooter, because they’d throw it inside everybody, double, triple team him, kick it out and it hit a couple threes right to my second year. Our tallest player was our now six three sophomore shooting guard. And we went to a five out offense and I was like, oh, dear Lord, I need to be able to recruit.

It worked. I love the guys. I love the program, but to me it was a big piece was the recruiting, right? I want to play a consistent style And I’ll obviously be able to tailor to player strengths, but I wanted to get to something that I could build rather than, Hey, what am I going to get next year?

Right. That, that kind of I don’t have a say in it Right. Of a public school. And so that, that was a lot of it. And then the other thing was just my four years in college, as a person was so impactful in, in terms of the growth that I went through, that I always wanted to get back to that college environment.

Because I just think it’s such an impactful four years of, of somebody’s life that I grew a lot, I had a lot of fun. And so I want to try and I always wanted to get back to that environment to be able to give that experience to somebody else.

[00:18:48] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. That’s very cool. I think that.No matter whether you’re talking about high school or you’re talking about college, whatever experience that you have, I think there’s a lot of guys that feel exactly the same way you do David in that, Hey, this was a time that was really, really impactful on me. It could also be that maybe for people who played both high school and college basketball, sometimes one experience or the other was maybe better or more impactful on that person.

And sometimes that’s what draws people in, right? Is like, Hey, my high school experience was so good that I want a kid to be able to have that same experience. I want to be able to give that to them. And conversely, like in your case, talking about the college experiences where you really felt like that was where there was a maybe a greater impact.

And so, yeah, I can completely understand where you’re coming from and as you started to look at that, I think you’re in the high school for two years while. You’re getting your master’s degree and you’re getting that coaching experience and you’re just getting a feel for what it’s like to be on the floor, as you said.

I’m sure you got to do a lot of different things with the film breakdown and being able to do player development, just get involved. Was there one particular aspect of what you did at the high school level from a coaching standpoint that you took to right away that you were like, oh, man, I love this. I know that whatever coaching job I end up getting in the future throughout my entire career, this is going to be one part of it that I’m always going to love.

[00:20:04] David Sloan: For me, it’s the strategy and the thinking strategically. It can be scheme, it can be development but it’s, it’s kind of that, that macro level. How can we move these pieces? Right. That’s something that’s just always fascinated me. So watching film and trying to figure out schematics of what we can do different, how we can attack somebody, how we can improve whatever that case might be or player development-wise.

Like, Hey, let’s put a plan together. We want to get to this. How are we going to get there? And so I was lucky enough that I could do a lot of that and mostly because of my traveling back and forth, I did a lot of film work. Just on campus before I got over to practice. And I really kind of fell in love with that.

Just the way to look at it, the way to kind of combine how can you take strengths, hide weaknesses combine five guys into doing whatever it is that you want to do. I’ve always loved that about any sport. But really as I got into coaching, that’s something that I just, to this day, I just love thinking about, love talking about and love doing.

[00:21:16] Mike Klinzing: How do you grow in that area? What are your methods for going out and trying to learn more and break down and figuring out more the X’s and O’s and the strategy piece? Does it mostly go on film with the level that you’re coaching at? Are you watching your own team? Are you watching other teams? Are you watching other college teams?

Are you watching N B A? Some combination of both. Is it going to mentors? Just how do you improve yourself from an X’s and O’s strategy standpoint? Obviously it’s something that you’re passionate about, so where do you go to learn more?

[00:21:43] David Sloan: Everywhere. I mean, I think that, like I laugh that ever since I became a coach, I’m not sure I can ever watch a sporting event for pure enjoyment ever again.

I watch an NBA game And you’re always like, okay, well they just run there. Oh, that worked. Hold on, let me write that down. You know, you’re, you’re just always in that coach thought process. And so for me it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s watching teams that are successful, watching teams that do similar things to, to what we do or what I believe and want to do.

I think you also have to be intentional with watching teams that don’t do things the way you do them or want to do them just. To make sure you’re seeing a different option, right? Hey, I don’t want to run this offense, but they’re good. Right? What can I take from it? How can I make that fit?

But then I think when you look at the broad picture and something we talk about with our guys all the time, I’m constantly talking about it, is you just have to be intentional. And so ask, talking to mentors I mean, obviously the, the longer you’re in coaching, the more friends you got in coaching, just calling them up and being like, Hey, when you scout, like, what do you look for?

Right? Or, or, Hey, you’re putting your offensive game plan together. What do you are you looking at individual matchups? Are you looking at more the team, like just picking people’s brains? And it could be a five minute conversation. It could be an hour long conversation and just trying to find ways and tap into the knowledge that everybody else has.

Right. And then find ways that kind of sticks with you, sticks with your program, and how you can fit that into what you’re already doing. And so for me it’s trying to learn in every which way. You know, I talk to our other sports coaches. I talk to friends, one of my best friends is in sales.

I talk to them all the time about that, right? Because recruiting has a lot to do with sales. And so it’s not even about coaching or recruiting, but talking about relationship building, talking about presentation. Just there’s a million different ways that you can learn And places you can take things from.

For me, it’s just about being intentional and seeking those out And if you’re willing to ask the questions and do the work then I think you got a lot of knowledge at your fingertips as you gather that knowledge.

[00:24:00] Mike Klinzing: So, one of the things that, as somebody who’s early in your career and you’ve been an assistant coach, you’re probably in a position where at some point you’re going to have an interest in becoming a head coach. So you’re gathering all this knowledge at the different places that you’ve been, the different coaches that you’ve played for, the different coaches that you’ve worked with, mentors that you’re reaching out to film, that you’re studying, all these different things.

How do you compile all that stuff into. Some type of format that you can actually access that you can go back to. Because we all love finding, right? That new thing you are like, Hey man, this is awesome, we’re going to try this. Or Hey, let’s do that. But two weeks later, oh, where’d that go? So what’s your system for sort of keeping that stuff together and starting to get a plan together for, Hey, this is when I eventually get an opportunity, here’s what I want my program to look like.

Here’s what I want my offensive and defensive philosophies to look like. How do you put all that together so that it stays organized?

[00:24:58] David Sloan: Well, I’m all ears if you have a good plan. I don’t, I’ll be the first to tell you, I probably don’t have that part ironed out. But to me, I was lucky enough that when I got into coaching the varsity coach I worked for a and then every boss that I’ve had at the college level, every single one of them, has talked to me from the very beginning on, Hey, if you want to do this, you have to prepare to be a head coach from day one.

And you have to think that way. You have to compile things that way. You have to start building that portfolio And build your booklet and do all of that from day one.  And so for me, I have probably way too many computer files. I’m a bit of a hoarder in that sense.

So keeping track of articles, keeping track of different things that we that we find that works. I try and file that away. I’m sure a lot of people have a Google Sheets that literally is what I will do. And it’s just an idea bank of things that I’ve seen, things that we’ve done I, ideas I’ve had of, Heyif I’m lucky enough to get that shot to be a head coach, this is something I’m going to do in the program, right?

I have to find a way to get this fit in. And so really it’s just about trying to take as many notes as possible and then hope that what you are doing and how you’re compiling is in somewhat organized. So whenever you need to get back to it, you can find it. But I also think if you like an idea enough, you’re going to remember it, right?

And so it’s this idea of, Hey, I want to look at it. I want to think about it. You know, couple days here, I got a sticky note on my computer. I’m looking at it and I’m thinking about it. If after a couple days I don’t think about that anymore, then it’s probably not going to be a sustainable idea, right?

If it’s something that I can go back to And, hey, I really need to find a way to do this, or this idea just pops up every year. Hey, can we do this? Nope, not this year. All right. I’ll bring it up next year. Right. That idea. If the longer it stays with you, then I think the, the more it’s kind of ingrained and reinforces that it’s something that you really believe in care about and want to make sure you do.

[00:27:19] Mike Klinzing: See, You got a system, it’s a sticky note system.

[00:27:20] David Sloan: Oh, there’s a lot of sticky notes, I’ll tell you that.

[00:27:26] Mike Klinzing: All right. So you get your masters and you’ve had two years of experience at the high school level, you kind of feel like, Hey, college is the place where I’m going to be. Tell us a little bit about that first initial job search. Who do you talk to? Where are you sending letters to emails?

Who are you calling? Just what was that process like for you to be able to get that first job?

[00:27:53] David Sloan: Well, I’ll be honest, I got really lucky. An assistant coach I played for in college he called me up And this would’ve been so spring break or just before spring break of the last year, my masters.

And he called me up and said, Hey a friend of mine in Maine is looking for an assistant for next year. Are you interested? And at that point I’m like, I, I’m still finishing my degree. Like I haven’t really even got to the point of like, job searching or thinking about it.

I’m traveling to Florida with our baseball team, getting ready for like 10 games in six days as an athletic trainer, right? And he said I can connect you if you’re interested. And I’m not sure I even like hesitated. I was just like, yes. And he goes, do you want to know the school?

And I’m like, yes. Like, I want to talk to him. I’m interested. Let’s see what happens. Right? And so I had my first interview while in Florida between Doubleheaders, we had about an hour and a half between the end of the first game and warmups for the second. And I split off and I hop on a call and so I have my phone interview there.

And was lucky enough got invited up to campus And so a little later that spring, I drove, my dad went with me. We drove from Pennsylvania up to Maine got a look at campus, met with the head coach up there And. So I just kind of, I got lucky. And so the horrors of job searching and all that, trying to break in I didn’t experience that.   I kind of got lucky and it kind of fell into my lap because of connections that I had and then kind of the secondary connections from there. And so it yeah, I’d only ever been to Maine once in my life, and that was when I was a little kid on vacation, and next thing you know, I’m moving up there to a coastal town of 700 people.

[00:29:48] Mike Klinzing: You were probably ahead of most people by being there once I would guess.

[00:29:51] David Sloan: Yes, I at least had an idea of Maine and so it was yeah, it’s kind of funny how it all came together.

[00:29:58] Mike Klinzing: All right. Tell us a little bit about the school, Maine Maritime Academy.

What’s that school like, and what was the experience like there?

[00:30:06] David Sloan: Well, it’s, it’s a school that definitely not many people know of. But, and I mean, I never knew of it until I interviewed and as I got there and really learned about the niche being a maritime school. It’s an incredible education.

A very specific education. But if that’s what you want to do, boy, it sets you up really well. And so I wouldn’t call it a high academic, but it is a higher academic institution. Very good. Alumni job outcomes very. Very specific, and everybody thinks of it as a military institution, right?

There’s people walking around in the uniform and all that. But it’s not, it’s the state version of Merchant Marine Academy. And so we had guys, we had a lot of business guys and it was a logistics degree, so a very important, very specific, very high demand degree that didn’t have any of that military type feel to it.

And so it was kind of an undiscovered gem. But I will tell you, I can tell when I got there why it was a little bit undiscovered. It’s in a town of 700 people. It is on the coast in a town, Casteen Maine is a little peninsula. So like you stand where my house was, you could stand and see about 180 degrees of ocean.

It was awesome. I mean, I loved it. And so It was a cool place to be as a guy who greatly enjoys the outdoors. It was an awesome place to get to, had a blast being up there. But definitely one that everybody I talked to, I swear in the recruiting process, it took me like a month to convince kids that we were in fact a school.

And we were in fact in the United States. And once we got past that hurdle, then we are off and running and we are golden.

[00:31:58] Mike Klinzing: So what’s that recruiting process look like? Because obviously there is a pretty specific type of kid that is going to want that academic program. So now you’ve got that combined with trying to find kids who can play basketball on top of that.

So especially sort of being your first foray into recruiting, what did you learn about the recruiting process and just thinking about how that has impacted you now as you moved on to Carnegie Mellon.

[00:32:27] David Sloan: Well, I had a great trial by fire. The head coach that hired me up there, David Mutchnick he was great.

And the recruiting aspect, boy, I learned a lot fast. I still remember the nights he’d be in his office, I’d be in mine and he’s listening to my phone calls, and then I’d hear Hey Sloan, and I’m like, oh boy, what’d I say? Right. just kind of getting used to how to make the calls because I’d never done it. And so he was awesome. Kind of that trial by fire, Hey, figure it out, right? We’re going to talk about it, but, but you have to go do it and you have to do it in your way. And so we, for being that small school in the middle of Maine we recruited almost exclusively out of state.

And so we were pulling kids from Virginia, Florida, Texas, California. New Jersey. So in my two and a half years we got guys from six different states in my time. And it was awesome because I really kind of got that taste of national recruiting and kind of the history of that program there, there wasn’t a lot of tradition there.

There wasn’t a lot of history and you know, coach Mutchnick, that was his first head coaching job. And so we got the opportunity going out of state to really be able to tell our own story, right? We weren’t battling as much of the preconceived notions and reputation and we could tell our story and we could present the program with our vision. And that was awesome. It was just a lot of fun, a lot of learning, got told no a lot. But at a school like that I found very quickly it’s cast a wide net and try and get the no as soon as you can. Because if you don’t hear no, that means you’re closer to Yes.

And so really pushing guys on, here’s who we are, here’s what we’re doing, here’s the way the program’s going to go. Do you want it or not? And if you don’t want it, that’s great. We’re moving on. Right, but if you do and once you got there we yielded pretty well actually on visits once they got a chance to see campus you know, see what the academics provide And see the opportunity from a basketball standpoint.

[00:34:48] Mike Klinzing: From your perspective as an assistant coach? I think a lot of the guys we’ve talked to, David, one of the things that’s most interesting is that a lot of guys who come in and they’re maybe the only assistant on a staff, and so they’ll tell us about how they just kind of got, as you said, thrown to the fire and you’re getting to do a million different things.

And thinking about how that benefits you and your career as you move forward, because you just get to have your hand in a lot of stuff. When you think back to those two years, what are a couple things that you got to do that you feel like have really value, have really benefited you now as you’ve moved on to Carnegie Mellon?

[00:35:24] David Sloan: Well, I’ll start by saying there, there’s really two ways you can go kind of getting into coaching, right? You either jump onto a staff that’s bigger school, successful, whatever the case might be,  and you kind of work your way up from the bottom where you’re not really doing a lot.

Or you go to a really small school and you have to do everything under the sun, right? Right. And mine was the latter. I got there actually I got hired as a basketball coach, and I got there and realized that they also needed an athletic trainer. And so they created a part-time position for me.

So I worked as an at in the fall and spring coached in the winter, recruited in the summer. I got the full D three environment And it was, I wouldn’t trade it for anything. And a lot of people asked me that about we didn’t have a lot of success.  I worked for two guys in my two and a half years there.

Both of which were, it was their first head coaching job in a program where we didn’t have a lot of tradition, we didn’t have a lot of success, the records weren’t there. And people often ask me like, Hey, you know what, what do you think? And I’m like, I would not trade that for anything.

I got to do so much. I had to figure out social media. I taught myself Photoshop. I had to do all of our recruiting. I had a, a big hand in the schemes. I ran our player development. I did class checks and ran our study hall. They also didn’t have admissions counselors, so they would send me on the road to do college fairs at different areas of the country.

And then I’d be able to recruit kind of in my downtime on those trips. And I figured out a way to recruit nationally without having a big budget. And there just were so many aspects that I don’t think people get when they’re a fourth assistant or a guy who, heyyou’re going to do one job, right?

I just got to experience everything and it was a lot to kind of figure out in a short amount of time. I can imagine if you ask both of the guys I worked for up there, they probably said some bad words about me every now and then and as I was kind of figuring it out. Bu there’s no doubt that that experience is what led me to be confident that I could step into a school in the UAA directly from that, which is not a jump that a lot of guys are able to make and be able to have success and do a job well.

[00:37:55] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, absolutely. All right. Let me ask you, before we jump to Carnegie Mellon and how that opportunity came to you, how did you handle the losing part of it? Because I think that’s something that, look, everybody likes to win and obviously it’s more fun for players, coaches, everybody when you’re winning, but there also comes a time where most guys at some point in their career have to lose.

And as a coach, you have to be able to handle that. And then not only that, but you have to help your players. To be able to handle that losing and continue to be able to compete and do all the things that are necessary to hopefully turn it around so you can eventually start winning. So how did you handle the losing and what did you learn about that process of being able to figure out, Hey, this is kind of where we’re at, we have to deal with it and we have to keep pushing forward.

Just talk a little bit about those experiences there.

[00:38:44] David Sloan: Well, I think the, the first thing that I learned about it I’m not sure I was prepared for it, right? I mean, any competitor going into a situation, you think you’re going to win every game you play and then you get upset coaches we’re greedy, so you get upset every time.

It doesn’t happen, but to me, I really learned very early on how you needed to tie everything into the vision of the program. And a place like that, which was really trying to build a program. And again, two first time head coaches I learned very quickly, Hey, we have to stay on vision, right?

Where are we going? And how is everything that we’re going through going to help us down the road? And players don’t often see that. I didn’t often see that at the time. But really focusing on, Hey, we lost this game. What can we take from it? Right? What steps did we take forward?

Can we find the positive in that? To keep working, to keep our head down, to keep progressing because we’re going to get to where we want to get to. We just don’t know how long it’ll take. Right. And so being disciplined to stay a little bit of that tunnel vision, right? Of, of finding the positive, finding the constructive areas maintaining that unified voice of vision and where the program’s going to go.

But then a lot of it is also talking to players about, Hey, this is how it’s going to help you. Right? Our style of play, this is how you fit. Hey, you scored, but we didn’t win. So what does that mean? Right? How can you help us win more rather than just score more or whatever the stat might be.

And so it was a lot of communication. Definitely something I’ve learned more, kind of looking back on, I think of looking at conversations maybe I didn’t handle well or situations that I should have done more as the assistant coach. If I would’ve been there now with the experience I have, here’s what I would’ve done.

But it’s a lot of communication. It’s a lot of just, can we find a way to find the small victories and keep moving? Because the worst thing you can do is, is stop moving forward because you’re never in neutral, right? You’re either moving forward or you’re moving backwards. And so finding ways to, we, we just have to plow through, right?

We have to take the, the wins we get. Whatever those wins look like. We have to build one brick at a time. We have to take one step at a time And we’re going to get to where we want to get to if we remain committed.

[00:41:22] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. I love that idea of small victories, right? Because sometimes you can’t always control what goes on the scoreboard when it comes to.

You’re one loss record. Sometimes it just is what it is and you can keep working and you may not see that result. But what you can do is you can find small victories every single day, whether that’s statistical victories, whether that’s effort, effort, victories, whether that’s culture, whatever it is, you can find those small wins every single day.

And if you can reward yourself and reward your players, your team through that, then you can kind of keep them moving towards what eventually you hope will turn that won loss record around.

[00:41:59] David Sloan: Well, And let’s be honest here, we’re talking about basketball, right? We’re talking about a sport like you have to have fun And you know, losing is not always fun.

So you’ve have to find ways to make the time in between those games fun, right? How can we have fun in practice? How can we have fun on campus? How can we have fun as a group? You know, Dan Mcneley, who came in, he was the second head coach I worked for, he came in in year two, and man, we started doing some team building stuff.

And it was a lot of fun, right? And one of the first things that goes when the record doesn’t go your way is morale. And the minute that happens that hill becomes steeper and steeper, right? And so finding ways to break up the monotony, finding ways to have some fun with the guys, get them laughing.

You know, just find ways where they can be reminded that like, Hey, we’re playing a sport. We’re at a good school. We’re getting a good education. We’re going to get a good job, right? Let’s have some fun in these four years. And I think the more you can find that fun factor the easier going that that journey takes.

[00:43:07] Mike Klinzing: I’m going to go back to something you said earlier about being intentional, right? That’s something that you have to be intentional about because absolutely, it’s really easy when you’re losing to not have things go that way, where everybody gets grouchy and the team morale goes down and boom, suddenly, not only are you losing, but the fun, whatever fun that can be had is also taken away.

So I think that idea of being intentional about, Hey, we have to come in and we have to keep morale up, and we have to look for ways to have fun. And we have to look for, as you said a few minutes ago, those small victories, and that’s how you kind of keep guys going and keep the morale up. To me, that makes a ton of sense.

[00:43:43] David Sloan: I just wish I was a little better at making sure I remembered that all the time. It’s hard, man.

[00:43:48] Mike Klinzing: Trust me. I get it, man. That’s easy to say and hard to do. Easy to say, hard to do. Talk a little bit about how the opportunity at Carnegie Mellon comes your way. Obviously, as you said, you’re making a leap from a program that is fairly obscure to a school that has an outstanding national reputation. From an academic standpoint, you guys are part of one of the best division three leagues in the entire country. So how do you get that opportunity?

[00:44:20] David Sloan: Well, a lot of people told me as I got into coaching And always say, you have to get really lucky.

And I have been pretty fortunate to get pretty darn lucky. And so actually the way the position came open late. It was in August kind of tail end of August that it was open and I heard about it even a little bit later. I really wasn’t looking.

I got called from somebody in my network who had a connection and they said, Hey did you apply? And I’m like, oh no, I didn’t even know it was open. Hey, apply tonight and I’ll reach out. Well, I was actually on the road in New York City as an athletic trainer with our maine maritime football team.

I was lucky enough I didn’t even have my computer. My head at Maine maritime, same age as me, came in with me. We’re best friends to this day I’m like, Hey, man, I have to borrow your computer. I have to get my resume. I have to put this together in the hotel room. And so I’m in New York City.

I’m putting this together. I apply and I don’t hear back. Well by this point, it’s the end of September. And I don’t hear back. I finally hear back And Tony Wingen, who’s the head coach at Carnegie Mellon, he’s been there 33 years now, he responds, Hey, we’re bringing some people to campus this weekend, I’ll let you know if anything changes. And I’m like, oh, okay. I’m out. Right? So I tell coach Mcneley my head coach up there, Hey, not a thing. I come to work on Monday morning and I get a text, Hey, you need to call Tony now. And I was like, oh, no, what just happened?

So here I get an email And Coach Wingen says Hey position’s still open. Are you interested in, in interviewing? And this was the first week of October. And so I, on Monday, I had my first conversation with him. I flew down on Wednesday to interview. It goes until the Thursday practice starts.

October 15th is a Monday, the Thursday before practice starts. I had gotten the position, but I was waiting on paperwork and my AD up in Maine came to me and said, Hey man, we’re a state school, like, you’re going to be there on Monday. Like, I’m not making you put a two weeks in.

You’re going to be there. I need you to move forward here. So I resigned on a Thursday, signed my paperwork Friday, moved out of my apartment in Maine Saturday, and I showed up to coach Wingen’s office Monday morning at 8:00 AM. Without a place to live on the first day of practice. And he said, you got three days.

He put me in a hotel And he said, Hey, you got three days. Find a place to live and show up for practice. And so it was a whirlwind going from, in a matter of about two weeks going from being in Maine another year. And the final touches really preparation before that season too.

I’m in a new place with a team, I don’t know and I was told we were changing the way we played on both ends of the floor. So I didn’t even have film to go off of. It was like, Hey, man, show up for practice And let’s get to work.

[00:47:28] Mike Klinzing: Talk about trying to figure it out, right?  You’re figuring out on the fly man.

[00:47:31] David Sloan: I laugh there. We had a part-time assistant, Kyle Goldcamp who’d been here for a couple years and Kyle’s 6-10 played in the G league, played division two And I joke with him to this day. I just followed him around like a puppy dog, man, every time I wanted to, because Coach told me, he said, I hired you to coach.

I didn’t hire you to stand here. So he is like, I want you yelling, I want you talking to the guys. Well, I don’t know what he likes. I don’t know. I’m trying to figure out this out. So I just followed Kyle around and every time I went to say something, I just kind of look up at him and I say, Hey, Kyle, what’s he think on this?

And he’s like, no, you’re good. So then I’d yell, I’d talk to the guys or, Hey, no, don’t say that. I’d be like face. And it kind of went that way for about the first half the season as I was kind of feeling out the guys in our program And coach Wingen and just kind of figuring out what to do.  It was fun, man.

[00:48:23] Mike Klinzing: That is an experience to be able to come in with that short of notice and really not have any real knowledge. How much did you know about the program and the school? And I’m assuming that at some point as you started looking at the job, you started looking at the roster and maybe trying to learn a little bit about what they were all about.  But how much did you know going in?

[00:48:41] David Sloan: I didn’t know a whole lot. There was a player from my high school who was a few years ahead of me who actually played at Carnegie Mellon. So I knew of the school from him and he was a hell of a player, so I knew that they were good.

But I didn’t really know a lot about the UAA or the program. I was lucky. My cousin he got both the athletic ability and the brains of the family. He actually was a high jumper on the track team at Carnegie Mellon and so it was kind of cool to get back to CMU and spend two years with him as an athlete here.

And so he helped me out a little bit trying to figure out the school And all of that. And I’ll tell you the situation could have gone pretty poorly in terms of my relationship with the players pretty fast, if the guys weren’t as amazing as they were, and I came in and again, I mean, I don’t know them.

I didn’t recruit any of them. I’d never talked to them that kind of thing, other than on my interview And I came in, now you’re yelling at them. Yeah. And those, I mean, they were awesome. They wanted it, they wanted to be coached. They’re laughing with me.

They’re making fun of me, probably more often than I would’ve liked. But, it was a really good group And I learned really quickly that like, Hey, if these are the kind of kids we’re going to get, man, I’m going to have a lot of fun here. Because for them to accept somebody that late in the game, somebody they had no connection with or whatever.

And being open to coaching and being open to game planning And all of my ideas and the way I operated and all, which was different. And for them to take that I was like, all right, I like this spot, right? I like these guys. I’m going to have a lot of fun here. You know, Coach Wingen is awesome And to be able to kind of have the green light right away that was something I didn’t expect.

So I appreciated that and kind of helped the process a little bit of kind of getting comfortable. But man, the players just made that transition way easier than what I had in my head for the week and a half before I got there.

[00:50:44] Mike Klinzing: So, as that season evolved, what did your role look like from a practice standpoint?

Just what were some of the responsibilities that you kind of took on that first year? Because obviously, I am sure Tony had some ideas of, Hey, this assistant that I’m going to hire, this is what I want this guy, or need this guy to be able to do. And then now when you put an actual human being in that position and you kind of have to figure it out, so, so what were some of your responsibilities that first season?

[00:51:15] David Sloan: Yeah, so the, the biggest one was being in charge of all game planning. All scouting. I kind of did the video work and then we’d talk as a staff and kind of fine tune what the game plan was going to be. But jumping in, I had a lot of new teams to learn pretty darn fast to try and get those together.

And then again, there wasn’t a whole lot of divvying up, if you will. I mean, it was, Hey, I’m hiring a coach. I don’t want a statue, right? I’m not bringing in somebody to stand there and look pretty, I’m bringing in somebody that I want in practice, getting guys better in the gym doing all of that.

And so I was lucky enough to have a voice from the beginning in terms of ideas And not a ton of necessarily running drills, but kind of as the year went on that grew as I got a better feel for what we wanted to do And kind of what matched up philosophy wise.

And then obviously with our recruiting it’s a different timeframe from most schools, right? I mean, we recruit for November 1st. Can’t get anybody in after January 3rd. And so I was in a position, we actually had a recruit on campus my first week on the job was my third day on the job.

We had a recruit there, and I had to take him from one part of campus to the other. Needless to say, I was pretty happy he had already been there and I kind of followed him. You guys both had your maps out. Yeah. Hey, he committed so I don’t know. I must not have messed it up too much. No, you did something.

But just kind of came in at a time where our class was almost done. I really didn’t, there were a couple guys I talked to kind of shore up the class, but really it was, Hey, you have a little bit of time, the next class is going to be your class as the recruiting coordinator figure it out.

And so I got lucky that I did have a little bit of window that, that I could kind of figure out the school, figure out the program, figure out where we got guys. You know, I had a little bit, it wasn’t like I had to dive in and all of a sudden I have to yield three or four kids in a month. Right. I had a little bit of getting used to

[00:53:22] Mike Klinzing: How important was that first off season in terms of. Sort of catching your breath and getting caught up and really diving into what you needed to be to make the program the best it could be. I have to imagine that that was a pretty important spring summer for you after that first season.

[00:53:38] David Sloan: Man, I’ll tell you, my friend, we get to like, April, my friends are like, oh man, where’s your favorite place in Pittsburgh?

And I’m like, dude, I haven’t been outside of my apartment and the gym, right? I was like, I don’t even know how to get to my apartment yet. I was just in such cruise control, because everybody laughs about that, the fall is kind of like, especially when you get a new job, right?

The fall’s like I’m getting used to the place. Then we dive into the full fledged season and then I kind of wind down. Like for me, I didn’t have any buildup. Like I went zero to a hundred, right? I showed up and we are in season and so that, that spring was personally like, I got to take a breath and I was like, okay, right.

Let’s, relax a little bit. Let’s think about things, let’s look back on the season. But really gave me a good opportunity to step back. And kind of fully evaluate, and now I had some film, I had six months of seven months of coaching to know philosophy more, and start to get a sense from the guys of like, what do we look for in recruiting?

Right? Where do we go? What do we do? And now I was lucky enough that coming in as the recruiting coordinator and having some national recruiting experience you know, coach Wingen was like, Hey, where, where are we going? Like, he asked me, where are we going to get guys?

And I kind of paused for a second. I was like, aren’t you supposed to tell me like, what I thought this is I was hoping for a little lead here, but you know, we sat down, we talked here’s where guys from the roster are from, but he was like, Hey, where do you want to go?

Right? Like, where do you have connections? Where do you think we can get guys? And let’s go after it. And so he gave me a massive voice from the minute I got to campus, which again, I can’t say I came in expecting, but has been one of the biggest blessings for me. Just again, that kind of trial by fire, right?

Of being able to go through the experience rather than just kind of coasting, like, Hey, I’m making mistakes, I’m making decisions, I’m having to figure things out. And so that first off season was big. I mean, it was fun getting to recruit, we have a slightly bigger budget than I was used to.

And so getting to go to more places, getting to be all over the country from a personal standpoint, I had a blast. And you know, from a professional standpoint, just being able to finally kind of kick back and say, all right guys, what do we need? Now I know what the UAA is, like what kind of players do I need to go get?

Where do we have to get better? Where do I need to get better? You know, it was a good kind of reflection time once I got that whirlwind of a first year through.

[00:56:09] Mike Klinzing: So you mentioned that from a recruiting standpoint that you guys are targeting November one. Yep. And obviously most people know that Carnegie Mellon, the academics there are second to none across the country.

So just tell people a little bit about the process and how it’s maybe different from an average Division three school and sort of what you guys have to do to go through that recruiting process.

[00:56:31] David Sloan: Yeah. So for us, the first thing that I had to get used to is, it’s just an earlier process, right?

We’re starting junior year on guys. I mean, we’re asking them to commit before they ever play a senior season, right? It’s different. It is not something I was used to. There are a lot of people that don’t think about that timeline, right.

Because there’s a few schools that do it. There’s not a ton. And so being earlier, to the game I laugh sometimes. I feel like I catch myself looking at transcripts before film and I’m like, man, I never thought I’d be doing this. But really having to evaluate.  Do you have the right classes? Right? Do you have the grades? Do you fit what we are looking for in each of our major areas? Because we’re different. You know, we have six undergrad colleges that you apply to. It’s not the umbrella of Carnegie Mellon. And so each college has a slightly different admission standard based on what that college is.

Right. Our psychology majors and our computer science majors are different, and so they want different things. And so getting used to all of that And being trying now, still not great at it, but I feel like I’m getting better at kind of that first look of evaluating, Hey, do you fit here or here?

And then the other thing that, that’s different for us, we do a lot more with camps and less with AAU tournaments. And reason being, it just yields better for us. We can be more efficient camps where like Ivy League, Patriot League, elite camps you know, going to academic specific camps It helps us because we have the academic information, right?

I can’t tell you how many times I go to an AAU tournament. I’m like, man, that kid’s really good. Can’t get in, that kid’s really good. Can’t get in, it’s not a good use of our time. And so those tournaments, we’re going to watch kids that we know we’re not really finding a ton. The camps are where we end up doing more of our kind of finding just because we have the academic information readily available.

[00:58:33] Mike Klinzing: All right. So once you have the academic piece in place and you’re sitting at one of these elite camps for an Ivy League school or Patriot League school, what is it that you’re looking for specifically from a player standpoint? Obviously there’s a requisite amount of talent that a player has to be able to have to play at that level, but what are some of maybe the intangible things that you’re looking for that are important to you and your program?

[00:58:57] David Sloan: Well, I wish I could say recruiting was more science than art. But it definitely isn’t. There’s a sliding scale for just about everything, right? And kind of what do you need that year? How do you envision yourself playing? Do you need a different style of player, right?

Like, do you have a lot of guards that can score but not playmaker or, Hey, we’ve got bigs that are good on offense but not defense, right? Whatever that is, that really shapes what we look for from a specific standpoint. But kind of overall for us the biggest thing skill-wise that we look for is you have to know what you do really well, and you have to do it.

Too many guys are like, well I’m a good shooter, but I’m going to try and get some assists and I’m going to try and battle some seven footers inside. And like why? Right? I talk to our guys all the time with this analogy and they probably roll their eyes every time I do it, but like, Every time you see these guys get drafted, right?

NFL draft is going on tonight, so it’s making me think about it. But every time you see a guy get drafted from, from college to the pros, right? Outside of like the top, what two picks, what does everybody do? They pick one thing, they get really darn good at it, and they make a lot of money, right?

Like those three and d guys, I mean, they’re making like 20 mil a year to stand in a corner and shoot threes. Like, it’s wild to me, right? But now look at every high school kid that goes high school to college. Everyone wants to be LeBron James. Why I have to add this to my game? I have to add this to my game.

I have to add, look. Why is it so different going from high school to college than college to pro? Right? To me, it’s the same idea. So, yes, we’re going to add to your game. We’re going to help you in that development piece. Like, you have to become a more complete player. But you have to know what you do really well, and you have to be aware enough and confident enough to stick to it.

Now that’s a great point, man. I love that, that that development, right? So let’s, take a shooter. I was a shooter. I never went inside the paint. I got my shot blocked at my first pickup game in college, and I was like, no more twos for me. I’m staying out here. So you know, for shooting, like how do we grow your game?

Well, we’re going to grow in terms of coming off screens, screening, read, shooting on the move, right? Different areas. You know, we’re going to work on maybe even getting to the point that we can add off the bounce shots, right? Well, that’s growing your game, but it’s staying in your lane, right? It’s staying in your specialty, in your strength.

We talk about playing the strength all the time. And so for me, when I’m out recruiting,  I should be able to find out the type of player you want to be within about five minutes of watching. Now, it doesn’t mean you have to hit 10 threes or get 10 assists or whatever it is, but I should see what you are seeking.

In those five minutes, if you’re a shooter, you better be working. You better be fighting for your feet. You better be fighting for shot attempts. You better be running the floor finding spacing, right? Whether you get a shot or not that that doesn’t matter, but in those five minutes, I should know.

And if you’re confident and aware enough to do that, you’re my kind of guy. You’re our kind of guy, because that’s what makes our offense good, is guys that understand what they do. We talk all the time. Versatility doesn’t come from having 15 guys that can do everything. It comes from having 15 guys that do what they do really well.

And so for us in recruiting, we look for that first, you’ve have to have a skillset. You have to know your strength. And have a skillset that can impact our program from day one. And then we look at what else can you do, right? What, what Hey, you’re a shooter. Can you get in the paint and make a pass?

Right? Can you defend, can you rebound out outside your area? Whatever that case might be. So that’s what we look for from a skill perspective, but for us as we’re recruiting really we call it the ABCs, right? We’re looking for academics, we’re looking for basketball, we’re looking for cultural fit.

And the guys that we have, the guys that want to be a tartan, the guys that want to be at Carnegie Mellon, the guys that we want fit those three areas. If you don’t fit those three areas, you’re not our kind of guy. Because the thing I found out very quick is Carnegie Mellon is a challenge, and it’s not for everybody because it’s freaking hard, man playing in the uaa, doing the academics, the travel like it’s hard.

And I’m sure all the high academic schools could talk about that, right? It’s hard. And so you have to want that challenge. And the only way to want that challenge is if you fit in all those areas.

[01:03:19] Mike Klinzing: It’s really interesting, David, to have this conversation because it’s something that. I never really thought about.

And we talked to Mike Procopio, who used to work for the Mavericks, and he does a lot of work with player development and he talked a little bit about how, just what you said that you got guys, three guys that are staying in the corner and they make 20 million a year to do one thing. And his point that he made to me was, look how many guys in the league get to do everything, get to do what they want.

And maybe every, every team maybe has one that do it to different. Yep. Degrees of success. I mean, obviously you start with, well, somebody has to take the most shots and average the most points on a bad team, right? Even on a bad team, there’s still somebody who kind of gets to stir the proverbial drink, but those guys still probably, if they were on a better team, probably wouldn’t have that same role.

So he was like, there’s maybe 15 guys who just have carte blanche to do whatever they want. Everybody else is a role player and our job is to try to maximize whatever it is that they do well, so they can help their team win.

[01:04:22] David Sloan: You also can tell a lot about them as a person about their willingness to do that, right?

Yeah. if they are self-aware enough and confident in themselves enough to say, Hey, on this team, this is what I have to do and we’re going to win right? Then, then you know exactly what they’re after, what they value and what they want. And you’re going to be successful if you surround yourself with a bunch of guys like that if you, and they’re smart enough to figure it out, right?

Yeah. And too many times, especially for male athletes, and I think that’s part of it coming out of high school, it’s the ego, right? It’s like, Hey, if I’m a college athlete, like I need to be the big man on campus, right? And a lot of their kind of personality and identity is tied to that.

But if you got a kid that’s confident enough to know, Hey, I know I’m good. Right. But this is how I can be good for us And this is what you need me to do. And this is what’ll impact winning. Holy hell. You’re going to win a lot of games, man. You are going to win a lot if you’ve got guys to buy into that.

[01:05:28] Mike Klinzing: And here’s the other thing that I think is super interesting that goes along with it is, yeah, guys have to figure it out. First of all, you have to be smart enough to recognize what is my role. And sometimes even the player can look and be like, Hey, we got guys that can do X, Y, and Z. Maybe I need to lean more into doing this because that’s my road to playing time. And I think too often players don’t see that. But you made a point earlier about how come players going from high school to college don’t see it. But guys going from college to the pros. See, and I think what’s interesting is that it’s almost like the way we think of player development, it’s almost flipped in a sense that when we’re working with somebody who’s in second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth grade, elementary school kid, What are we working on?

The whole entire package, right? Like we want that kid to be able to be a better shooter. We want to be, be a better passer. We want everybody to be able to handle the ball. We got ourselves how big they are. Everybody’s multi positional and doing all these things. And so if you watch a workout that a trainer’s doing with a kid who’s 12, that’s probably going to be touching on like everything.

Versus when you get to the college level or even when you get to the pro level, especially guys are working on, hey, this is what I do. Like I’ve have to be able to make this corner three when I’m wide open, I have to be able to stick this thing and I’m just working on that over and over again. Or I’m working on, I have to screen and get here or I’ve have to be able to switch and guard.

I’m a big, I have to be able to guard guards. And there’s just so many little things that you have to do. And it’s so interesting because intuitively you would almost think it would be the opposite, right? That hey, the pros, those guys can do everything and they can, they want to work and be this all court player.

And the kids would be like, Hey, just play this role and do that. But we’ve almost flipped it. And I think that because kids grow up in the game trying to learn how to do everything and try to excel at everything, that, that’s where when you get to college, and again, probably if you’re a college basketball player, you’re one of the better players on your high school team and so on and so forth.

So those kids are used to kind of doing a little bit more. Now you get to college and all of a sudden it’s like, no, you, you’re not just going to, we’re not just going to give you the ball and get out of the way. Yep. And let you do whatever you want. You have to fill this role. And it’s just, it’s interesting when you look at sort of, from the beginning of when a kid picks up a ball to whatever the, you know what, whatever the end of their career looks like, that it sort of flips that at the beginning.

They’re working on everything. And at the end, they’re just, most of us, most of us are just role players.

[01:07:49] David Sloan: Well, I think because there is a foundational level of every skill that you have to be at. Right? For sure. If you can’t take two dribbles, Yep. It doesn’t matter how good you are, you’re not going to progress.

Right? And so there is a foundational skill level or threshold you have to meet for every level that you move up. And it’s probably because everybody just grows up watching and who do they think of? They’re not talking about Steven Adams, right?

They’re talking about LeBron James. And so they’re idolizing the main players, the guys that do everything and that’s what they see, right? And so I think to me  it’s just trying to find ways to celebrate and really value every role. How do you impact us? We recognize it.

Your teammates recognize it. This is what we need. The more they feel valued, the more willing they are to do it.

[01:08:48] Mike Klinzing: It’s just so interesting to me again because I think as players, when you talk to players, Not very many of them recognize that because again, everybody wants to grow in their game, right? Yeah.

Everybody wants their role to be bigger. Everyone wants to continue to get better. And that’s something that’s a positive. It’s a huge positive. You want kids who want to get better and you have to be hungry, right? It’s like, yeah. It’s like excel in your role, but continue to prepare for the next one so you can grow it and you get that.

And yet, at the same time, I think there’s sometimes there’s an unwillingness to accept what that role mm-hmm looks like. Like, hey, you could get out on the floor if you’re going to do a. X and y at a really high level. Yep. And so it’s just interesting how it’s just interesting how it works that kids have to figure it out

[01:09:36] David Sloan: Well, and part of that is our jobs as coaches. Right. And I probably haven’t done a good enough job in certain situations of explaining that, right. Of here’s your value, here’s what you can do, here’s how we see it, And here’s why this fits you.

Right. And building that value, building that confidence. That’s part of our jobs as coaches is we have to present it and we’ve have to teach that And get it to be understood to the point of understanding value. And if if we can’t get there, then it’s partially on us because we haven’t done our jobs.

[01:10:18] Mike Klinzing:  Once you get a kid on campus and you get them in your program and you’re getting them to buy into your role, into their role, and you’re, you’re trying to build a cohesive team. What does that look like in terms of culture building for you guys? How do you put it together? I know you said that year one, just the high quality of the human beings mm-hmm.

That you’re dealing with as players gives you guys a leg up, I’m sure. But just talk a little about what you guys do to build culture.

[01:10:45] David Sloan: Well, I’ll tell you, I’m lucky. Coach Wingen’s been here 33 years And that man is unbelievable. And I say that because I got to campus on my first alumni weekend.

We had 50 guys fly back from literally all over the world. We had a guy fly back from Australia and he came back every year for it. Right. And so as an outsider, I saw that and immediately saw the impact And what coach has been able to do in his time in terms of building that culture.

And it really going into year two for me, kind of in my first real kind of full recruiting class you know, we kind of added some things to the recruiting visits. You know, we start our visits with a player two of our players meet with the parents and the recruit with no coaches.

We start every visit that way. And it’s, it’s really because our players have kind of taken the keys to that culture piece and they know who they want in the program. They know who fits. They know from a person standpoint. And we value that. And so there have been kids over my time here that they’re great players And we get done with the overnight visit and our guys are like, coach, he doesn’t fit. And we’re like, all right, he’s not coming. Right? And so valuing that And our players taking that lead, I think that to me is the only way you’re going to continue building culture, right?

Like, coaches can do so much. There’s all these team building And conversations and whatever, but when the players take the keys, boy, you’re in a good spot, right? Because it means they care. It means that they’re going to guard that. And that’s really important. But we give our players a lot of a voice just about every decision we make.

You know, we consult our captains or our leadership council You know, so while they’re on campus, they understand that it’s about their experience, and we make sure that they have a say in that. Again, at least their the leadership from, from each year’s program has a say in what we do in that year.

We talk to them about a lot of things you know, and heck and practice we’ll, we’ll game plan. And we’ll be like, all right guys, how we garden this like, you, you tell me, right? Be because at the end of the day, like if they don’t, if they don’t buy into whatever you tell them, it’s not going to happen. And so really making sure that they know that they’re empowered.

It’s a two-way communication street. I tell them all the time, I want them to tell me when my scout is awful. Like, if I miss, they better tell me. And I think sometimes they look at me like, are you sure? And I’m like, well, I hope I’m not wrong often, but if I am you have to tell me.

And I think the more you can do that, then I think the better. The more empowered they feel, the more comfortable they feel. And they understand their value in the program. Obviously at the school, they know with all the stuff that they do academically, internships extracurriculars.

These dudes are just amazing, it’s incredible what they do. But when they know from a basketball standpoint as well that we’re here, we talk a lot about basketball as a part of their career development and educational experience, right? So we make decisions in that manner.

So incorporating all of that, I think the guys understand what our main goals are. And again, Coach Wingen’s done an unbelievable job in his time of kind of setting that standard. But now the guys, they take ii and run, man. And you’re building that culture.

[01:14:09] Mike Klinzing:. I know one of the things that is super important at the Division three level is having those player leaders because the off season, now I know you guys are getting your eight days, which everybody’s excited about to be able to p work with players. I’m sure you’re trying to figure out, well what are we, how are we going to maximize those, those eight days? But still the off season, because you guys don’t get the same access that the other levels might to your players.

That building up those leaders, not only in the season but in the off season is really important. So what are the steps that maybe you guys take or just how do you provide space for your guys to be able to develop leadership? I think you kind of touched on it a little bit as sort of getting their input.

Yep. But just is there anything else that you guys do specifically to sort of develop the leaders on your team?

[01:14:54] David Sloan: Well, it goes, you have to be intentional. Leadership doesn’t just happen. Like, you need experience. They need to have their space to be able to kind of grow work through things And mess up, if you will, or whatever the case might be.

But I think our job as coaches is we’ve have to be intentional in like, setting guys up. So finding underclassmen that we see as kind of those emerging leaders And having the conversations or like we tell every guy that comes into our program, we are like, from day one, you’re here for a reason, you have a voice, use it like you don’t need to earn equity.

You know what I mean? You’re in, we recruited you, the guys checked off on you, right? Because they were part of the visit. Like, everybody wants you here. You’ve automatically got equity to use your voice. Now, how you use your voice, that depends on how much leadership grows. Right. And so getting guys to understand the need to speak, the need to, to seek out those opportunities, but never feeling like it’s a hierarchal well, okay, as a freshman, I’m not there as a sophomore, maybe I think about it.

Like we, you have to get rid of that. And so we, we just talked to our guys a lot and that’s formal conversations, informal at practice see them across campus, whatever the case might be. Like, they need to understand what being a leader means and you know, talking to guys about like, hey, your, your here’s how your actions can be viewed.

Not saying they are viewed that way, but here’s what can happen to kind of chip into that leadership that, that you’re building, right? Or here’s what you can do to help build that equity in leadership. And so being intentional, having conversations, making sure that they understand that  all these guys that that’s where we’re lucky.

I love being at schools like where I tell people all the time, I don’t have to sell. I just give facts. Like, our school is good enough, right? That I tell you the facts, you tell me if you like it or not. And so our guys know that they’re going to be CEOs. They’re going to do be inventors.

They’re going to do incredible things. And so they understand the need. They’re mature enough to understand the need to be a leader, but they just need kind of pushed along that path. And so hey, here’s what you did in practice, right? If you want to be a leader, this can’t happen. Or, Hey, I saw you took control of this.

You know, we, on Saturday, we host the Western PA Special Olympics. We host the regional Special Olympics. We’ve got a couple guys that run different sports in that Special Olympics. And that’s not something we’ve talked about, right? The guys just kind of, that’s just what we do in the program.

The players just kind of pass it on. But now it’s talking like some of our younger guys you know, they jumped in and they’re leading a sport that we’ve never led before. Right. And so talking to them about like, Hey, this is what that initiative does. This is what you can learn from it, right? So it’s not, yeah, it’s volunteering And it’s an awesome opportunity, but let’s make sure we’re learning from it too, right?

And understand how that correlates to leadership. And I think the more intentional you can be in kind of making sure they see every experience And opportunity then the more likely they are to grow into those leaders that you want them to be.

[01:18:03] Mike Klinzing: That’s well said. I mean, the intentionality piece of it, I think we could go back to just about any part of being a coach and the more intentional you can be about what you’re doing, the better off you’re going to end up being.

We’re headed towards an hour and a half. I want to ask you one final two part question, David. Part one is when you look ahead over the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge? And then part two, when you think about what you get to do every single day, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

[01:18:32] David Sloan: Well, I think my biggest joy is I’m coaching basketball. Like  there’s a lot of other things that a lot of people are doing And I’ve been lucky enough I’ve had to support family-wise to be able to kind of pursue this and especially at the D three level, which is where I want to be.

And I’m lucky, man. And that’s awesome to me, right? Every day I go into work, like, it’s funny, I talk to people going into nine to fives and office jobs and all, and I’m like, man, I’m going to the office. I’m going to watch some basketball. Like, oh, it’s professional development, right?

I’m going to turn on the NBA game from the other night. You know, it’s fun. And  I think you have to find that fun. But the other thing, And this goes all the way back to why I want to coach in college. I hope that I’m able to be part of an impactful four years.

Right. And they may not realize it then, right? It might take a couple years. It might, but my hope And where I get great joy, but again, I hope that our players and the people in our department and in our program kind of see it too is that we can have a lot of fun. We can win some games.

We can be in the best league in in D three. And we can have the fun doing it. Right? And it can be an impactful, it can be a learning opportunity. That to me is, I just have a blast with it. Now, the challenge is right, And I think every coach will say this is find a ways to win more.

Right, And really finding the opportunities to not lose any of the other pieces that we talk about. The career development, the academic experience, the networking, the college growth and experience all of that. How can we do a better job of providing that same experience while also finding ways to win more games?

We had our best season this year in 15 years. We were right on the cusp of being able to kind of down the stretch competing for UAA title, competing for an NCAA bid for the first time in 15 years. And we’ve seen it, we didn’t do a great job this year of handling that we didn’t prepare them.

I don’t think as well as we needed to, to kind of handle that stress and pressure. But we’ve seen it now, can we keep building, right? So without sacrificing anything, can we keep adding to the experience we offer to the opportunities these guys have that in 20 years, man, they’re going to look back.

Like I was a part of three conference championships and the only year I didn’t win the conference championship, we won the ECAC championship. In my four year career as a player, like I got four banners hanging. And that’s all I remember, right? And it’s an awesome thing to look back on.

Our challenge is, can we get back to hanging banners? We’ve been there, we have to get back to it. And trying to find a way to do that without sacrificing everything else. You know, we have our methods, we’re confident we’re going to get there, but trying to get that sooner rather than later.

Right. And how can we do that each year and keep building? I mean, I think that’s every coach’s goal, but it’s a challenge. The higher you get, the better you are, the harder it is to keep taking those steps forward.

[01:21:56] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. I don’t think there’s any question that anybody who’s out there in the coaching profession, you’re always trying to strive for that next step up the ladder, right?

[01:22:06] David Sloan: Every program’s in a different spot. And so what, absolutely, what is your next step? You know, let’s get there sooner rather than later. And let’s keep building from there. So if you have any magic answers, I, I’d appreciate all the help.

[01:22:24] Mike Klinzing: I wish I probably should go back through every episode.

Maybe I could unlock it over the course of 700 or whatever episodes we’ve done. So, alright, before we wrap up, David, I want to give you a chance to share how people can get in touch with you, find out more about the program at Carnegie Mellon. So you want to share social media, website, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I will jump back in and wrap things up.

[01:22:46] David Sloan: Perfect. Well really appreciate you having me on. Best, best way to get you know, learn more about our program. If you go to our athletics site, it’s athletics.cmu.edu, you can get to our team page. From there, obviously all my contact information is there or, or go to my Twitter @Coach_DSloan

And from there you can link to all of our team social media pages And all of that too.

[01:23:14] Mike Klinzing: Awesome. David, can I thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us? Truly appreciate that. And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.