ANDREW OLSON – CLEVELAND CAVALIERS SHOOTING COACH – EPISODE 850

Website – www.nba.com/cavaliers

Instagram – @ShootCoach

Email – andrew.olson01@gmail.com

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Andrew Olson is a shooting coach for the NBA’s Cleveland Cavaliers.  He has been with the team since 2018.  Prior to joining the Cavs Andrew was a private shooting instructor for players at all levels of the game.

As a collegiate player at Amherst College, Andrew was the two-time NCAA Division 3 Player of the Year.

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Get ready to take some notes as you listen to this episode with Andrew Olson, Shooting Coach for the NBA’s Cleveland Cavaliers.

What We Discuss with Andrew Olson

• Growing up a Suns’ fan in Phoenix before moving to San Diego at the age of 8
• Playing over 1,000 basketball games by the time he graduated from high school
• The evolving style of play from the post to the 3 point line
• The role his dad played in his development as a player
• Watching players on TV and then just trying to figure out what they did to be successful
• Becoming the first freshman in his high school’s history to make varsity after having 8 turnovers in his first game on JV
• “You never know when someone’s going to be watching you or observing you.”
• His decision to attend Amherst College and play D3 Basketball
• What made Basketball Hall of Fame Coach Dave Hixon so special to play for at Amherst
• “I remember the lowest of lows and they kind of impact me the most”
• How a Final Four Consolation game propelled him to get even better as a college player
• Getting the news that he was named the D3 Player of the year (twice)
• His experience playing overseas
• Initially trying to blend strength and conditioning with basketball skills training as his first step intot coaching
• His transition to becoming only a “shooting coach”
• The kinetic chain needed to be a great shooter
• The proper way to think about form shooting
• The story of how he ended up working for the Cavs including his relationship with GM Koby Altman
• The NBA schedule and the need for players to develop great practice habits
• “Certain coaches in player development work with certain players and I’ll eventually have conversations with every single player, but I’m not on the court with every single player all the time.”
• Adding value to the team and players and building confidence in your ability to do so
• “Putting your players in the best position to succeed and work on the things that they’re best at is, ultimately going to produce the best results from a team standpoint.”
• “Even with veterans or certain players there’s always room to grow or there’s always room to get better.”
• The resources NBA teams have to work with both the team as a whole and individual players at the same time
• “The best shooters have an ability to focus at the highest levels.”
• “Implementing drills or implementing moments in your practice that require intense focus is very, very important.”
• “I think great shooters are also hyper aware. They’re aware of who they are as a shooter, the moment, and shooting percentage is just as much of a reflection of shot selection as shot mechanics.”
• The process of winning in the NBA is. easily the biggest challenge. And I think anybody in the NBA would tell you that.

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THANKS, ANDREW OLSON

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Click here to thank Andrew Olson on Twitter

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TRANSCRIPT FOR ANDREW OLSON – CLEVELAND CAVALIERS SHOOTING COACH – EPISODE 850

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co host Jason Sunkle tonight. But I am pleased to be joined by Andrew Olson, shooting coach for the NBA’s Cleveland Cavaliers. Andrew, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.

[00:00:13] Andrew Olson: Thank you. Appreciate it. Happy to be here.

[00:00:17] Mike Klinzing: Thrilled to have you on.  Looking forward to diving into all the things that you’ve been able to do in your career. Let’s start by going back in time to when you were a kid. Tell me about how you got into the game of basketball and what made you fall in love with it.

[00:00:31] Andrew Olson: So I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona. Moved there in 1986, like five months after I was born in Minneapolis.

And it was a good time to be in Phoenix and be a basketball fan. And so I fell in love with the Phoenix Suns and Kevin Johnson and Dan Majrle. Charles Barkley. So those were the introductory years of my life and basketball was definitely a big part of it.

[00:01:01] Mike Klinzing: When did you start taking the game seriously?  How old were you when you kind of realized basketball was where you were going to put your focus athletically?

[00:01:09] Andrew Olson: So I started actually like my first basketball league. I think I was like five years old or something. So I was already kind of started at a young age. I don’t know if you can call that serious.

But I took it seriously because my best friend at the time, we were on the same team. We were too young to play. My mom actually had to use Safety pins to hold up my jersey because we’re playing up about two or three years. And I remember scoring four points. And the reason I remember scoring four points is because my best friend, he had scored 10 points that year.

And so I’m a competitive person and kind of realized that at a young age. Did you play any other sports growing up? Yeah, I played everything to some degree I was played some little bit of football soccer, baseball. I eventually moved to San Diego at the age of eight and baseball was the number one sport in the area that I grew up in.

And I played that up until about seventh grade or so. It was kind of at a young age around second grade that I started to realize I was just better at basketball. And so I put a lot of focus to it.

[00:02:35] Mike Klinzing: How did your upbringing in the game compare to how guys come up through the system today in terms of youth basketball, AAU trainers, just what was your experience like compared to what guys are experiencing today?

[00:02:48] Andrew Olson: Yeah, I’d say it’s comparable and many ways just with the volume. I was a gym rat. Like I said, I started playing organized basketball in second grade. My dad actually in order for me to play in that league, he had to start coaching. And so I say that because it was very helpful because my dad kind of got forced into coaching and played a pretty big part of my development. And so I started playing in youth leagues and then eventually, my dad was like, let’s put this all star team together and start to go to some other tournaments. I was playing AAU basketball and in San Diego, we traveled to LA to go play better competition.

And I think it was in fifth grade and we went to nationals and so I was already exposed to that at a young age. And so I think it’s very comparable to a lot of the players that are growing up now. But at the same time, there’s just so many more avenues and there’s the highlights and the things that the way the game is played and shooting threes.

And obviously we’re probably going to get into that a little bit later, but the style of play was much, much different. You played through the post, me being always a small guard I didn’t love that, but being a true point guard and looking up to the Isaiah Thomas’ the John Stockton’s and eventually, my game as I got older was comparable to Steve Nash. But those were these true point guards that I think when we start to look at point guards nowadays, they’re kind of more categorized as scoring guards. So I think just those little nuances, of the style of play, but as far as like the general makeup and the structure I think when I eventually graduated high school, my dad said that I had played over a thousand basketball games.

[00:04:59] Mike Klinzing: Oh, you weren’t worried about overuse, huh?

[00:05:00] Andrew Olson: No, no. I think that that would actually be something nowadays that the amount of games and how frequently I was playing would probably be looked down upon.

[00:05:14] Mike Klinzing: Talk about the role your dad played. You mentioned that you felt like he had a major influence in you as a basketball player.  Talk a little bit more about that.

[00:05:20] Andrew Olson: Yeah. So. Like I said, in second grade, he had to coach. That was like the rule that they made in order for me to play. It was a third and fourth grade league, and so that got him into the game. He played in high school roughly, but was not a great player so to speak.

But he really became very, very passionate about coaching and developing not only myself, but the other players that I got to play with. And so probably I think second, third, fourth, fifth grade, he was always the head coach. And then once I kind of got into middle school, I started to play for some other coaches, but he was maybe the assistant coach or taking stats or doing something.

And so from a coaching standpoint, he would always, always kind of knew what was best for me. Or once we reached a certain point, he kind of wanted to let somebody else help and guide and mold me. So yeah, he was very, very influential and supportive. And the main thing was he always knew where to send me to play, whether it was a new team or the go to a camp or whatever it was.  He knew the avenues and where to send me.

[00:06:42] Mike Klinzing: Did you ever talk to him about that? Like how he figured that out and what that looked like?

[00:06:45] Andrew Olson: Not, not necessarily directly. It was more so just later in life, we kind of talk about how it all kind of happened and transpired and my basketball journey is a long one from age four till now.

But yeah, it’s just one of those things that you think about and you’re just very thankful and blessed that him and then my mom is easily my number one fan and her support and her whistling and everything that she did that, just having their support over all those years.

And like I said, over a thousand games you can’t do that without having supportive parents.

[00:07:27] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely not. All right. So playing a thousand games, there’s still got to be some time where you’re getting in the gym by yourself. What did it look like as you were trying to get better as a high school player?

What were some things that you were doing on your own? Did you have a formal plan of, Hey, this is what I’m doing to try to get better? How’d you go about just putting together your training regimen for lack of a better way of saying it?

[00:07:49] Andrew Olson: Yeah definitely. And now that you say that, that’s I would say a huge difference between now and then, but the going to trainers or what that like kind of just started for me in in high school and it was, We didn’t really have the funds to do it all the time.

It was kind of like go to someone and maybe get a few ideas or a workout that could be different, but which ultimately helped me become the coach that I am. I think is just kind of was my basketball mind of kind of teach myself. I remember in high school cause I’m 5’10 and not that athletic, but being able to shoot a jump shot was very important and I was hearing people saying, well, if you’re going to play at the next level, you got to shoot a jump shot. And so I remember just going in the gym one Saturday and I was there for four or five hours and I remember looking at videos prior to going there.

I didn’t have the cell phone with YouTube to actually look at videos on the spot. But I remember looking at Kobe Bryant and Tracy McGrady and some of these players that were jump shooters at the time. And I was just like, what are they doing? And so I was just observing and I was more so very, very observant.

And back to my dad, I remember looking at my teammate we were at this gym back when you play on carpet sometimes and we had a practice and my dad did a spin move and I was like, I don’t know if that’s how it’s supposed to look and I think, yeah, just being observant and then watching some film every now and then of myself, but yeah, it was just kind of watching those around me that had success watching those on TV that idols and people that you looked up to and then just kind of going in the gym and figuring it out.

[00:09:46] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, it’s interesting how different it is. I think about my experience. I’m a little bit older than you. So, I graduated from college in 92 and back when I was trying to get better and do the things that I did, I ended up, I’ve said this multiple times, but I would do, basically, I had two workouts. I had a workout that I would do by myself.

And then if I was lucky enough to have somebody else that You know, wanted to shoot with me or whatever, I’d have another shooting workout that I’d sometimes do if I had somebody that would rebound and get shots up with me. And so, you think about just the variety, like you said, you’re trying to go and look at what different people are doing.

And back when I was doing that, I just, I just did, I just did my own thing. Didn’t really have much in its way of resources to try to look at all the things that players have today. It’s sort of. I guess part of the hard part now is you got to sort through all that stuff and figure out what really is valuable and what’s not.

And sometimes that can be overwhelming for players and for coaches for that matter. There is just, as you said, so many more resources today than there were back in the day. And I think you just had to figure out, Hey, what am I going to do? How am I going to do it? What do I need to have again, is I want to keep getting better and keep playing at the next level.

You got to figure those things out so you can make that. So you can make that dream a reality. As a high school player, you have a favorite memory?

[00:11:06] Andrew Olson: Yeah, I think it was my first game. And I say that because I’ve recently watched the. Steph Curry documentary. And I believe he had a similar experience in his first in his first college game, but yeah, I am a shooting coach now, but I was a pass first point guard and I took a lot of pride in kind of the flair and making no look passes and doing things in my first game, I actually, I started off on JV and I had like eight turnovers and I remember going back and just being like so frustrated and, and I still as we all do five of them were probably someone else’s fault with not catching the ball or whatever it was and they weren’t ready for my no look passes. But having eight turnovers was not something that I took a lot of pride in, but my coach he came over and said kind of the things I was thinking that You’re good, you’re here for a reason, and the next game’s going to be fine.

And the next few games did go fine, and then you know, I eventually became the first freshman in my school history to make varsity, and they moved me up eventually, so I think it all worked out.

[00:12:31] Mike Klinzing: There you go. It’s interesting hearing you talk about being a pass first guy and also talking about your dad.

I think back to there’s one piece of basketball advice that my dad gave to me when I was a kid that stuck with me for the entire time that I was playing and it still sticks with me today and it’s advice that I’ve given to players that I’ve coached. And my dad, I remember this was after I was probably in like fourth or fifth grade.

And I played this game where I’d made a bunch of passes. And just like you said, you looked at the guys that you’re passing the ball to, and it goes through their hands or it hits them in the nose cause they’re not watching or whatever. And I remember being really frustrated after the game like these guys can’t catch, or they’re not making their layups after I passed to them.

I’m going to stop passing. I got to I just got to shoot the ball. If we’re going to win. And I remember my dad looked at me, he said you might be right in the moment, but in the long run, eventually you’re going to end up playing with guys who can catch those passes and who are going to score when you pass it to them.

And so you just got to keep passing. And that was something that stuck with me that I never forgot throughout the entire time I was playing. And it sounds like that’s a similar experience kind of to what you had where you could have beat yourself up and be like, Oh whatever. And instead your coach flipped it around the other way.

And clearly you’re talking about something that for you happened 20 years ago. For me, that happened like, man, I don’t know, 40 years ago. And I still remember it. And you still remember it. Those are, those are powerful words. It’s something sometimes to remember as a coach too, that the stuff, the stuff we stay sticks with players a lot longer sometimes than we think.

[00:14:14] Andrew Olson: Yeah, I also had like a similar moment. It wasn’t necessarily like the words that I kind of live by in that sense, but it was more the experience. And so prior to that year, I was in middle school and the PE coach became the coach for the school team. And my friends and I we’re playing AAU and doing probably bigger and better basketball things, but we were like, we’re going to play for the middle school team and tryouts happened. And I remember I was jumping, going between the legs, throwing off the backboard to my friend for alley oops and didn’t take it too seriously. And I remember making the team.

I wasn’t a starter and just in that moment, I just realized that you never know who’s watching. Like I, amongst my friends at the school I was one of the better players. And then in that guy’s eye, in that, in that coach’s eye, I was not good. And so you just never know every time you step on the court.

And so that was something I took with me pretty much for the rest of my life was that like, you never know what time someone’s going to be watching you or observing you. And if you kind of approach it with doing your best each and every time, you’re going to probably get better results.

[00:15:36] Mike Klinzing: And that’s applicable, right? As players. And it’s also, I’ve had so many coaches say something similar to me.

In that same vein where I’m at this camp that I’m doing the summer circuit, I’m trying to get a job and I’m just busting my butt at the station, even though there’s nobody there. And I’m working with kids who aren’t very good. Or I had a guy that his name is Joe Stasyszyn. He does some stuff with USA basketball.

And he told me 1 time that back, he used to work the old 5 star camp outdoors in Pennsylvania. And he said 1 time he was. It’s 95 degrees there in Coriopolis, Pennsylvania, Robert Morris, you’re on the converted tennis courts. And he said he’s back at some the very last court and he’s working station 13.

He’s got like four kids and he’s got sweat pouring down and he’s doing it because he loves it and he wants to work. And he said later, Howard Garfinkel came over to him. This was whatever, an hour later, I said something, Hey, I noticed you back at that station really working hard. And it’s just, I think when you start talking about how do you get to be successful in life?

You don’t get to be successful by performing only when you’re on the stage. You got to perform and be at your best all the time. And I think that, man, it’s a, that’s a great lesson to learn in middle school.

[00:16:53] Andrew Olson: Yeah, yeah, no. And yeah, it’s just, you never know when those moments are going to happen or those words or the person has their presence that those words carry a little bit more weight, but you just never know when those moments are going to happen. And fortunately I was surrounded by some great people and had some great experiences early on.

[00:17:18] Mike Klinzing: Tell me a little bit about your college recruitment process, what it looked like.

You’re in San Diego, you end up all the way across the country at Amherst, obviously tremendous school from an academic standpoint. So walk me through a little bit of just what that looked like for you in terms of making your college decision.

[00:17:37] Andrew Olson: Yeah. So I still remember to this day when we were receiving mail from.

And I, the first letters that I ever received from a college were UNC and Colorado State. And as a freshman, I have this, well, these are the people that are interested in me and I’m going to eventually end up at one of these schools. But. You know, being five-nine and 125 or whatever I was at the time.

And then we hear stories and about people growing four or five inches in a summer or whatever it is. Well, I grew one inch in the next four years. So height didn’t quite work out. And I think I was about 145 pounds trying to drink all the protein shakes.

And back then they had weight gainer shakes. So yeah, I definitely was not built for basketball in the sense of my stature, but yeah, so as it got later towards my senior year, I realized that division one was not really going to be the highest of priorities and I should explore some other options.

I did have some offers later in the process. I kind of held off until after my basketball season senior year to make my decision. But yeah, it was just one of those things where my family  I was going to be the first one to graduate. I have an older sister and she chose not to go to college.

And my parents, same thing they did. They didn’t finish college themselves. And so my dad, again, back to being influential, but he, he kind of laid it out and I didn’t know what Amherst college was. I didn’t necessarily know what division three was because my sights were set on division one.

So I did some research and then went on some visits and I think there was another school that I went to that I just left and I was like, I can’t see myself going there, not because of the school or anything. It was just like the team and the vibe that I got. And then after I left Amherst, I got in the car and I said, dad, I think, I think this is the place. It just had the best of everything of the year prior. They had went to the final four and it was their best season ever from a basketball experience, it was a great opportunity. And to be the best at that division is something that I was striving for.

If I wasn’t going to go division one, and then it was the best academic school that I got into. And so you put those together, it’s pretty hard to pass up.

[00:20:23] Mike Klinzing: What were you thinking about in terms of a major? Was that something that was even on your radar? Or obviously you’re a good student if you’re trying to get in to Amherst and you get in, but were you focused just, Hey, it’s hoops?

Or were you more focused on eventually thinking about what you were going to do for a career?

[00:20:40] Andrew Olson: Yeah, I think most Division 3 players, there’s that point of realization that they’re probably not going to go to the NBA out of Division 3. So your major and those decisions are obviously important. And I knew I wanted to be involved in sports.

Political science and becoming a lawyer was something that I thought could make sense. And I thought if I do that, then I could become a sports agent. And so that was the original intent. And then as you know, everything unfolded in the playing career and everything, it went to the back burner.

[00:21:25] Mike Klinzing: Tell me a little about Coach Hixon. We recently obviously had him on and had a huge honor getting the opportunity to be enshrined into the Basketball Hall of Fame, first division three coach ever to be able to do that. I don’t know if you just want to share a story, share the impact that he had on you, share what type of coach he was, whatever you think is going to best kind of encapsulate your relationship with him and what kind of coach he is.

[00:21:49] Andrew Olson: Yeah, I know you’ve had a lot of Amherst or Amherst connections on recently, but going back to that recruiting trip and to visit. And it was kind of in that moment. And if anyone had has listened to the podcast that you did with him, but he just has this charisma about him that you do feel like you’re the only person in the room when he’s talking to you and he just has that ability to make you feel special.

And so I think that playing for someone like that taught me many things being at the hall of fame. I was fortunate to go and watch it and experience it. And at all these things even a year ago, they had a court dedication for him, but you just realize like how special of a person he is by the amount of people that come back and support him after all this is said and done. And yes, it’s easy to do those things at the hall of fame and at a court ceremony, but he would have that, he has that same effect on people regardless of whatever event it is. And so yeah, I think that’s his best trait. That’s his best quality is his personal or personable skills and his ability to connect with people. And I think by doing that I have some of the best friends in my life from college. And I think it’s his ability to identify good people and bring them together. And when you’re forming a team of any sport, that’s very, very important.

[00:23:35] Mike Klinzing: Did you know right away when you stepped on campus and got around the team, the program, did you know right away it was the right place?

[00:23:42] Andrew Olson: I did. They had jokes that it was raining and horrible weather. And then I showed up, I brought California sunshine. So it was like a beautiful weekend when I came and I was like, Oh, this is going to be perfect.

But it is a daunting thing. I think actually the wall street journal just came out today and said that it’s the eighth best college in the country. And so it’s a beautiful campus has incredible academics and that’s what kind of intimidated me the most was just the academic piece of it because I knew when I stepped on campus that I had the possibility to be the best basketball player, but I wasn’t too confident in me being the best or most intelligent.

[00:24:22] Mike Klinzing: Did you figure that out?

[00:24:24] Andrew Olson: I did. I think it was probably day one or two in the sense that there was a 14 year old in our class and he was probably, I think he’s on pace to graduating by age 16 or 17. And yeah, I realized that our priorities weren’t the same.

[00:24:48] Mike Klinzing: I asked your favorite moment from high school, favorite moment from college.

[00:24:52] Andrew Olson: So I tell this story too, and I don’t know if you’re picking up on things, but I remember the lowest of lows and they kind of impact me the most, but I’m sure you’ve had this discussion with other players or coaches or whatever, but they remember losses the most.

[00:25:09] Mike Klinzing: And absolutely. I couldn’t agree more, Andrew. I could not, honestly, I could not agree more. Here’s what I always say to people when they ask me this question, I always say if you’re successful, You win a lot. And I don’t know about you, but I always found that a lot, I mean, I have some memorable wins and games that I remember, but a lot of those wins kind of roll and meld together, especially like when you think about conference games, right?

Where you played a team two or three times a year. And I’ll have people that remember me playing and be like, hey, what happened in that OU game when you were a sophomore? I’m like, I don’t know. We played them 10 times in four years. I have no idea which game you’re talking about. You’re going to have to be more specific.

So I totally get it.

[00:25:50] Andrew Olson: Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, back to the most memorable moment. Again, it’s weird which ones stick out and whatnot, but we were the last year that they played a consolation game at the Final Four. So my sophomore year, we make it to the Final Four, and we’re make it to the championship game and Illinois Wesleyan was supposed to make it to the championship game and we both lose and they had us play the next day and it was one of those games where looking back and knowing what you know now, but like, I don’t think our seniors or their seniors or certain players were getting up for that game.

And. So we go out and play and they have an all American point guard. And I’m out there and we’re playing. And like I said, he could have just been running through the motions and whatever, it’s my last game. This Consolation game is stupid, but it was just that the takeaway and the moment, the moment in that moment was if this guy’s an all American, why not me?

And I just had that feeling and that approach that summer. And that regardless, maybe I would have had that approach anyways, but it just stuck out and it was, it was like a. solidifying moment that I can take my career. I can take the basketball you know, level up a notch. And we were fortunate to make it to the final four of the following season, won the national championship.

And then I was the national player of the year that year. So just kind of the, the series of events that happen is in that moment was kind of like the catalyst or the most paramount.

[00:27:45] Mike Klinzing: It’s so interesting to me that I think picking out those moments that are. challenging moments or moments where it wasn’t necessarily the highest of highs and thinking about how those moments can fuel you or those things that somebody says to you can fuel you.

And I think that’s something that when I think about my own playing career, that’s something that I look back on. And I realized that there were a lot of things that were either said or situations I was put in, or maybe guys that I played against to your same point that I’m like, this guy’s going here, this guy’s getting this, and I’m playing against him.

I think I’m better than him. And I got to continue to work and try to get better to be able to maximize who I am as a player. And so, it’s interesting. I think a lot of guys that end up having success are wired that way, that those… Obviously, the most famous guy that’s wired that way is Jordan, right? You have somebody who has some slights thrown at them, whether they’re real or perceived.

And he figured out a way to, figured out a way to feel. Not that I’m comparing you or I to Michael Jordan in any way, shape or form. Let me make that, let me make that abundantly clear. However, I do think that a lot of us who are athletes who end up having some success, we end up using some of the things that are said or done in or near or at us.  We ended up using those as fuel.

[00:29:14] Andrew Olson: Yeah, definitely. And then kind of flip it around again, like that national championship and everything that happened was in the sophomore year experience of playing against that player was also fuel for the following season, because I was like, there’s no bigger target than my back right now.

And so I need to have an even better off season. I need to take it up a notch or whatever, however you define it, but knowing that every time I step on the court next season, that. Every player is going to go at me a little harder, or every team is going to try to beat us even a little bit more.

So yeah, that was, like you said, there’s these moments, but they have sometimes like a compounding effect on them.

[00:30:05] Mike Klinzing: How do you get the news when you’re named Division III? national player of the year. How does that news come to you?

[00:30:11] Andrew Olson: So we win the national championship that year. The following week is spring break. So it worked out pretty perfectly. And we had a group of friends that were headed down to Florida.

And we were going to have spring break down there. And I don’t know what day it was, but coach Hixon calls me and has the good news and says you’re the national player of the year. He told me that season I had to share it with somebody. That was the co national player of the year.

So he definitely let me know about that.

[00:30:53] Mike Klinzing: He wanted to keep you in check somewhat, huh?

[00:30:54] Andrew Olson: Exactly. And so, yeah, I just got a call from Coach Hixon and then he told me I’d have a email and information because they were going to honor me down at the final four because division three, all of their championships and everything are before the division one.

And so yeah, that was how I got the news.

[00:31:18] Mike Klinzing: What do you think would happen if you were in the exact same situation today with the transfer portal and the way things are? Because I’m guaranteeing that somebody who’s the Division III National Player of the Year is probably at least looking around at other opportunities. It’s kind of an interesting thought experiment to kind of go through and wonder, because things are just so, are just so different now. Obviously your experience was tremendous there, the way that things are today. It’s just an interesting way to look at things.

[00:31:51] Andrew Olson: Yeah, definitely. I think that’s, that is the one thing that I think about from a what if standpoint, I think everybody ends up thinking about it to some degree. You know, I have 100 percent no regrets. I think everything worked out in a wonderful way. And I’m in the position I am and very happy and content with where I am. And but that is something that has crossed my mind with the fact that I could have transferred and not had to sit out because that was the biggest thing back then. But yeah, I think there probably would have been a couple of calls or emails or whatever from a reaching out standpoint and that would be something that. I think you’d have to consider.

So I have thought about it, but at the same time I also thought that I was going to make it to the NBA after I was the national player of the year. So there’s a lot of what ifs.

[00:32:50] Mike Klinzing: All right, so talk about that. You graduate. What’s the thought process? Where’s your mindset at? And then just kind of walk me through those first couple months after graduation as you start looking around for opportunities to play.

[00:33:02] Andrew Olson: Yeah, I was and not the co national player of the year. So I had that little motivating factor and I was the outright national player of the year. And so I thought that because I had that resume that I would have opportunities left and right. But I have to reiterate, I didn’t grow much in high school and I didn’t grow in college.

You didn’t have the Scottie Pippen experience? No. And so opportunities for the, the 5’10 unathletic. Point guard weren’t too much, but they had this event in Ohio actually where they invited, it was like 56 division two players and eight division three players was like an all star game.

And they had agents there and everything. And so it was a very cool experience. about a month after my season had ended. But even there, just recognizing that. I didn’t have as many offers or opportunities as I thought I would have. So I just went into it with the relationship and the agent that I trusted the most.

And I actually met them in person at that event. And it was just I pretty much the first opportunity or first offer that I got, I said, yes. And I felt like that was the best decision and not try to hold out for anything. And just take the opportunity and go over there and kind of see what happens after that.

[00:34:39] Mike Klinzing: What was the experience like for you going overseas?

[00:34:41] Andrew Olson: Oh, it was perfect timing. I always say that because in 2008, we You know, all the people that graduated then had a wake up call in fall of 2008 with the market crashing. And so I was over there playing basketball, getting paid in euros and the dollar was crashing.

And so obviously felt bad for a lot of friends, but it was just another one of those, like I think I made the right decision moment. So yeah, just going over there and then just experienced, experiencing a new culture. I felt like I was ready to do something like that clearly with you know, going from San Diego to Massachusetts for college and I thought I’ll be fine.

I’ll figure it out. And it’s just a new experience. And it was great. I had a good experience until the final game of the season. And that was the first season in my basketball career that it was a losing season. And so I definitely had left a little sour taste in my mouth, but we did a little traveling after and I got to see Europe and, and explore the world on the basketball dime, so to speak.

[00:35:50] Mike Klinzing: What was your favorite country that you visited or played in?

[00:35:54] Andrew Olson: Hands down, just, I love Italy. You know, the coast of Italy and the food and everything about it is my type of country. I was fortunate to do a good amount of traveling. There’s not as much playing in different countries as people think.

But yeah, it was just an incredible experience to see the world at a young age and gain certain life experiences and living on your own. And so it was a perfect experience for that time immediately after college.

[00:36:28] Mike Klinzing: What’s your craziest European basketball story?

PG 13 version.

[00:36:33] Andrew Olson: I don’t think it’s is anything too crazy. I guess I have a couple that like just pop in my head right away, but it was the fact that like, sometimes our, Our practice schedule, like we didn’t have court time because handball was taking over. And I’m like, well, what’s going on?

What is handball? What is this sport? You know? So but you just you recognize that certain sports and certain things about cultures are different, but I’d say one of the most memorable experiences from a basketball standpoint was the, my graduating class. And I don’t know if, Anyone’s listening to Matt Goldsmith, but there was five of us that graduated from Amherst college that we all got contracts to play in Germany.

And there was pretty much one evening that we could all get together from the travel standpoint and location of, of everybody and schedules. And so it was a Saturday night and. I had a cup game on Sunday. And so I met up with them and like most things when you hadn’t seen people in a long time, they last a little longer than you expect.

But I was responsible enough to know I’m going to need to get home, get a little sleep, but I woke up and it was actually the best first quarter That I had had since high school. And I think I had 20 points in the first quarter of that cup game. And so I obviously the thought goes in your head.

Well, should I hang out with my friends? And friendship goes a long way. Yeah. But no, it was that was a very memorable experience for the time that we all got together, but then also from a basketball perspective.

[00:38:23] Mike Klinzing: At any point during your playing career, is coaching at all on your radar?

[00:38:29] Andrew Olson: Yes. So I would say that is a perfect way to phrase it. It was on my radar. I like a lot of us, we just kind of fall into it. So after my freshman year of college, I come back home and. There’s people, Hey, you should coach the high school team or you should work the camps.

And so yeah, sure, sure. And then you’re there and, oh you want to go train so and so’s son and you start doing private lessons and stuff. And so that happened all through college. And it was like every summer it, it got a little more lucrative. And you realize like, oh, there’s a business in this.

And so I think that was. Definitely the birth of the coaching career. And it got me into it. And then my eventual last year of playing overseas kind of bring this full circle was I kind of, when it went in it with the intent that it was going to be my last season playing unless I got a a ridiculous offer but I spent the last two months of when I was over there working on trying to get my personal training certification and I had this vision and I also had a relationship with somebody at a gym that if I had that certification that I could probably work out of it bring the clients and some of the people that I was already working with over there.

And it was, so I already had kind of like a built in business. And we talked earlier that the evolution was kind of happening with personal training. I wanted to kind of be a one stop shop back in San Diego and be a strength and conditioning coach on top of a basketball skills trainer.

[00:40:18] Mike Klinzing: As you started to get into that, did you find that part of it to be able to combine the two easy, difficult? What were some of the challenges that you ran into right out of the gate?

[00:40:26] Andrew Olson: Yeah. So I think the main thing when you stop playing is You realize that you, you miss it, but then you also don’t want to miss it too much that you fall back into it.

And so I had fortunately a very good friend. It was about a year, year and a half, two later. After I was done playing and I had been basically doing some train basketball training, some strength and conditioning training. But he had already started his own studio gym and he had the opportunity to go to LA and it was at his time, his lifetime opportunity to, to go up there.

So he says like, Hey, do you want to buy me out? You know, I’ll give you a great price, but, you got to put your name on the lease. And so that at that point I had this big shift because he was almost all fitness and strength and conditioning training. And so I had this big shift where I was predominantly doing that.

And then it seemed like every year after that if I had 70 percent of strength and conditioning clients, it was like, then it became 60, then it became 50. And every year it got more and more basketball. And I just realized that was my passion. That’s how I felt like I could give the most to people, give the most back.

And realize that at that moment that I was a basketball coach.

[00:42:03] Mike Klinzing: When you’re thinking about doing individual training, because obviously there are a lot of people out there that are doing training today, especially when you think back even 10 years ago, the number of people that were out there offering basketball training was a lot lower.

When you think about what you did, what you do, how do you approach that with, let’s just say you have a new player that was coming to you at that time, somebody you hadn’t worked with before, what was your process for getting to know that kid, evaluating them, and then putting together a plan for helping them to get better?

[00:42:40] Andrew Olson: Yeah, so the… Probably, as you just alluded to, 10 years ago I was talking to a friend that was in marketing and they were like, Andrew, like, this is just not the best time to, you don’t want to be good at everything. He’s like, you want to be great at something. And I had kind of a, an inclination and the recognition that basketball is changing with the three point shooting and, and, and whatnot.

So I was like, I think I want to be known as a shooting coach. I think that could probably provide the most value. And so that was kind of how I led things whenever I talk with somebody. And that same friend was like, if. Someone thinks of, Hey Johnny needs to get better at shooting. Like you want to be the first name that they think of.

And so that was kind of how I reinvented myself from like a training standpoint was that I was going to be. No, a shooting specialist or a shooting coach. And so I had that, that foresight to kind of reposition myself and, and become that.

[00:43:58] Mike Klinzing: When you start working with somebody on their shot, what’s the first thing that you look at?

[00:44:02] Andrew Olson: Yeah, the, the initial assessment is, I believe that the most important, I am. And I go back to what I just was talking about when I was doing some strength and conditioning and getting my certification and everything, but I’ll tell this quick funny story, but I was training this 10 or 11 year old of how to be a little bit more athletic and work on his jumping.

And we’re trying to do some bench jumps and in that moment, recognize like the kinetic chain and how to kind of explain it to help him create a little more you know, acceleration and burst to get up onto the box. And in that moment I recognized the sequence of movements and the kinetic chain that is necessary for shooting.

And to answer your question with the assessment I, that’s kind of what I’m trying to piece together is everybody shoots or has certain nuances, but how can I optimize their shot? Because if you’re working at lower levels, there’s… There are some important things that you probably need to focus on and establish and create from a foundational standpoint.

But at this level that I’m at now, and when you’re working with good high school or college or whatever, they’re playing pretty well for a reason. And it’s just about kind of tweaking and optimizing certain things because the worst thing you can do is create negative confidence in a player. So that assessment and just kind of understanding their shooting sequencing is kind of what I do in that initial assessment.

[00:45:49] Mike Klinzing: What are one or two common flaws that you see or have seen most frequently in somebody’s shot?

[00:45:57] Andrew Olson: So there are few things that I’m kind of a contrarian on and form shooting, for example, I think is something that we always start with. Right. But the end result of creating a better shooter is them to shoot better in games. And I think a lot of times people will focus on form shooting and they’re not using their legs or the footwork or what’s kind of necessary to create the momentum for certain shots.

And again, I believe there’s a purpose for form shooting. But I think that it’s kind of overdone. And so just understanding what players are doing kind of before the shot. And so the footwork and certain things become important to kind of understanding the beginning phases of their shot and then, what is good about form shooting, I believe, is when you’re able to kind of identify how the ball is coming off of players fingertips. And I think, as we all know, to be a great shooter, you got to be accurate. And being accurate, the last thing to touch. or leave the ball as your fingertips and that has the most control.  So identifying how the ball’s coming off those fingertips is pretty important.

[00:47:21] Mike Klinzing: How does the opportunity with the Cavs come to you?

[00:47:22] Andrew Olson: Well, it was a back to that kid doing box jumps. So it’s kind of a longer story. I, at that point, I started looking at shooting a little differently and I started observing and kind of like loosely tracking shots. And I think at the end of 2013 I had a friend and roommate that was pretty proficient with Excel. And I was like, I got this idea. And the idea was I was going to start tracking shots and I was like, I need to run some analysis on my theory and everything. So I end up observing thousands of shots and not all of my theory, but a good amount of my theory was correct.

And then it also led me to think about some other things. And so I started. I basically had kind of reversed engineered a way to quantify someone’s shot. And so in 2014, I presented I had a friend from Amherst that was working at Sloan and they knew an NBA executive and he’s like, if you put something together, I think they’ll look at it.

And so I go back, I watch every single shot that that team took the season before put something together and he says, all right, you can meet him at summer league. And so I go out to summer league in 2014 and like most things in the moment, you think it’s incredible and your life’s going to change and of course nothing happens.

And then, for about a couple years. And it was great feedback. And the main thing was, Hey, we need evidence that this works for NBA players. And up until that point, I hadn’t had anybody in the NBA that I was working with. It was just college and high school and lower. And so I kind of went on this quest of, all right, how can I get in front of as many front office people as possible because what I thought I’d created was a way to…I could be a consultant or I could help evaluate players before the draft and free agents and a whole bunch of different things. So it wasn’t just coaching that I thought it could help with.

So I was talking to front office people and then eventually. I got in front of an agent and the agent he’s been, this is awesome. I think what you’re doing is great. And you should find a GM or somebody in the front office, because I think they’d eat this up. And I was like, I just spent the last two years doing that.

So but in that meeting I had recognized something that he said while he stepped away for a call. And it basically I was, Hey, give me a chance to work with one of your players. And so he was like, I can set up a meeting and everything. And so long story short, as I eventually got in front of NBA players, I started working with some NBA players.

And then I was using this system for about five years until I had a team reach out and say, Hey, we want to use your services. And so I was doing some consulting work and, and then also doing everything I was doing before, but and then also working with some NBA players.

And then I got a call from a team saying, Hey, Think we wanted you to fly out here and check out what we’re doing. And I decided to of course do that. And while I was, before I went out there, I decided to give a friend and former coach a call. And I called my grad assistant my senior year at Amherst college who happened to be Koby Altman.

And I call him just to get some advice and say, Hey, what should I expect? And  let me know anything I should know that could help me in this situation. And so he was great to me talk me. He threw what to maybe expect and then they were making a good run back then they were still going to finals every year.

And he was the GM at the time. And so after that meeting with the other team, I called him and said, thanks and everything. And then we talked about some things and he said, well, what do you think about coming out and checking out what we’re doing in Cleveland? So long story short is I decided to go with it and go with the organization that I was most familiar with and my relationship with Koby Altman.

And then also my now wife she was very encouraging and said that this is an incredible opportunity. I think you should definitely go for it. So that was how I ended up in Cleveland.

[00:52:30] Mike Klinzing: You got to have a spouse on board, man. That’s, that’s not negotiable for sure. All right. So let me ask you this.

Again, speaking in generalities, when you first started working with MBA guys, what did you notice? What was different about them compared to even the high level college and high school players that you were working with? And I’m not talking about specifics of their shot, but I’m just talking about mentality, the way they approached what they did.

What were some differences, if there were any, that you noticed right out of the gate?

[00:53:06] Andrew Olson: I think the main difference was cause No matter what level you’re at you’re going to have like a wide spectrum of shooters and, and players and athletes or whatever it is, there’s going to be guys that are really good and some guys that are on their way up or need some work.

So I think that is kind of always. But the thing that just jumped out to me at the NBA level was the schedule and growing up, you have a game maybe during the week and then you got games on the weekend and then in college you have two or three practices before each game.

And there’s just the schedule of when you get to practice, like there’s just not really a great rhythm in the NBA because you’re playing games every other night give or take, it’s just no rhyme or reason with the schedule. So it’s just very difficult for these guys to have these routines, but the greats do. And so I think that you just recognize the practice habits and everything are just slightly different. But these guys have to adapt and the ones that adapt the best. Those are the ones that become the best shooters.

[00:54:30] Mike Klinzing: What does that look like for you then? Obviously during the season, NBA teams. Don’t get on the practice floor, I’m sure nearly as much as the coaching staffs would like him to get on the practice floor. And so, you as the shooting coach, what is your role like? When do you get implemented, for lack of a better way of saying it?

And get an opportunity to get on the floor with players. Just how does it work in season, out of season? Just give me an idea of kind of what your schedule looks like.

[00:55:03] Andrew Olson: It’s the, the schedule again, it varies based off of players and the team schedule, but early on my first few years, it was go kind of work with certain players a lot more frequently, be on the court with them, work on their form or do certain things with certain players.

And then there’s other players that I do a lot more kind of behind the scenes analytics like I told you with my background of creating my metric and the things that I do from the analysis standpoint and so certain coaches in the player development work with certain players and I’ll eventually have conversations with every single player, but I’m not on the court with every single player all the time.

And so early on, it was just building trust and with coaches and players and trying to say, Hey, I got this little nugget for you. You know, so and so is better going left because of. X, Y, Z whatever it is that hopefully can help them. And so now when they go to practice or if it’s pregame, we don’t maybe even have to tell the players specifically, but it’s just built into kind of their routine or their development program.

And then I do other things from like creating just a shooting program and trying to implement things into practice or into player development and just trying to make the team better at the end of the day in whatever you see fit, because the season is long and shooting is a premium and it’s most important to get the players better because that ultimately.

[00:56:55] Mike Klinzing: How long into your stint with the Cavs, was it before you felt confident in working with NBA players? Was it right away because you had had all the experience of going through and looking at all the shots and doing the things that you had done previously to when you were working with guys? Just, when did you get confidence?

Did you ever feel like, man, I’m not sure that… I’m qualified to do this. And then when did you feel like, Hey, I got this thing. I got this thing down. Not that you’re not always looking for ways to improve your craft, but when did you feel super confident that, Hey,  I can really add value.

[00:57:31] Andrew Olson: Yeah, for sure.  I think that I mean, I was listening back to your podcast with coach Hixon, but you guys were talking about something and I think it made me think that there’s always a moment when you’re in the moment that you’re extremely confident, right? You believe the idea or whatever you have is best and you approach it and you go about it, but then you either learn from it or something happens and you just get better with age.

And so I think definitely that first year Just not being exposed to the NBA. Like it’s just a different animal. You’re learning just so much. And so settling in kind of happens in at least that second year. But whenever I was on the court, I felt like I could add value.

And whenever I was working with a player, I felt like I could add value. But yeah, once that second, third season kind of comes around and you have the rhythm of the NBA, the rhythm of or the connections and relationships with the coaches, the coaching staff, you start to be even more confident.

But like anything, you’re always trying to get better. And in this business the end goal, you’re always trying to win the championship. And how can I help the team? And so those are always the goals in the off season and also during the season. When you’re trying to make the players better.

[00:59:02] Mike Klinzing: As you’re putting together a program for guys to try to make them better. And I know the answer to this question is it’s going to vary from player to player, but if you can just kind of talk in generalities again about how much time do you spend doubling down on things that a player does well to make those things even better versus how much time you spend adding things to a player’s game or working on something that may be a weakness.

[00:59:35] Andrew Olson: For sure. Sure. There’s always a balance depending on the state of the team or the player or whatever. But I think our job as coaches is always, is what’s best for the team. And so putting your players in the best position to succeed and work on the things that they’re best at is, ultimately going to produce the best results from a team standpoint.

Now, I think you can’t lose vision of growth. And I’ve been with the Cavs during some times that we’ve been younger and inexperienced and, Whatnot. So you have to have the vision for their growth. And I think even, even with veterans or certain players that there’s always room to grow or there’s always room to get better.

And so it’s that approach of, all right, We want this player to do these things, especially during season to their strengths and put them in positions to succeed. But we also need to built in their player development plan and get better throughout the season because it’s long and it’s also just best for the player and the individual to grow and become a better player.

So I don’t think you can put like percentages on it, but you know, majority of the time you’re going to be. Lending itself to putting the player in the strengths category.

[01:01:04] Mike Klinzing: How much time do you spend watching film of your guys? And then how much time do you spend sitting down, actually watching film with them, breaking things down and showing them?

The things that you’re talking about, obviously coaching staffs, breaking down film from an X’s and O’s standpoint, whereas you’re looking at it more from a player development side, but just how much, how do you use film in what you do?

[01:01:30] Andrew Olson: I use it in every way imaginable. You know, just analyzing our players to analyzing and watching other players, you’re always observing different actions and movements. And I think I alluded to this earlier that I pride myself on being kind of like a movement specialist. And, and so I’m always evaluating movements.  I’m just always using film to do that, and I’m a very visual learner as is.

And so I’m using it personally, then I’m using it to also show players and sit down with them and knowing that they got to watch defense and all these clips and stuff. And so approaching things since it’s a long season in a more simple approach, like check this out on your one dribble pull up going to the right and keeping it very simple, like, Hey now look at when you go left, let’s try to observe that and the differences.

And so just like keeping things simple early on and then using film to also talk to coaches an. If players that they’re working with or observing certain things like, Hey, this is a different action that can put one of our players in a better position to get a better look.

So yeah, you’re just always trying to find ways to give the players and the team the best possibility to win.

[01:03:09] Mike Klinzing: How often are you showing them film in the midst of working them out where you actually have an iPad or your phone or whatever that’s right there where they can look at something and then try to emulate that or try to do it or try to make a correction.

[01:03:23] Andrew Olson: We have played with that. It does vary on the individual. Some guys just want to get in and work. And I think that’s also another huge difference with the NBA is just like in college and certain lower levels at whenever team practices or team situations, the individual attention is just at a lower level.

We just have a lot more coaches and time and resources to do those types of things. And so talking with the player, Hey, are you more visual? Or you talk with a player I was working with a player a couple of weeks ago and we’re showing them film They’re like I don’t really like film before I go work out, so you’re just reading and Right.

A lot of times in those situations, like I think when you’re at the lower levels, you just do it because you are in like that position of power. And that is the great thing about the N B A is we’re all men that are here and so speaking up or communicating and No, I kind of go back to an incredible quote that one of my mentors gave me when I first started coaching was, they said, they’re not going to listen to you until they know you care.

And so just building relationships and understanding what is best for the player that you’re working with becomes very, very important. And so if it’s Using film before or after, or, Hey, actually, let me just take your phone real quick and show you what I’m seeing. And some guys are receptive to that and other guys just kind of want to watch it from the game perspective.

So it’s just building those relationships and understanding what is going to help the player the most.

[01:05:21] Mike Klinzing: Do players tend to gravitate to particular staff members. In other words, do you kind of have quote your guys, guys that really like working with you and maybe there’s other guys that mesh better with somebody else on the staff?

Is that something that goes on or how does that work behind the scenes?

[01:05:40] Andrew Olson: Yeah, it’s like anything, the team’s large enough and the staff’s large enough that there’s going to be groups of people that are going to just hang out more frequently. And so knowing that when we put together player development plans, you’re going to just, all right, that’s going to be the point of contact.

You know, so and so is going to be with that person more frequently. And as kind of an overseer I can’t see every single person every single day. And so I tend to work with certain players more frequently. And it’s just the nature of the business. And so there’s before practice, during practice, and after practice that there’s only so many hours in those that you can allocate certain times.

So that’s why our staffs are set up in a way that is just going to be more efficient to work with certain players.

[01:06:40] Mike Klinzing: If you had to give one piece of advice to a high school or college coach for how they could improve their shooting program, their team shooting. Just one thing that could help them to make their team better shooters. What would that one thing be?

[01:07:03] Andrew Olson: All right, the question of the night. I think that the best shooters have an ability to focus at the highest levels.

So I think that implementing drills or implementing moments in your practice that require intense focus is very, very important. And I believe that that’s the one thing like to add a couple more, but I think great shooters are also hyper aware. They’re aware of who they are as a shooter, the moment, and shooting percentage is just as much of a reflection of shot selection.

mechanics. And so being aware of, of shot selection, all that. So that awareness piece and that ability to focus. And so for example, like a specific drill where, all right, you got to make two in a row, but the last one’s got to be a swish. Right. And so that last shot, I mean, you’re going to try to make every shot, but it’s just not two in a row, but you got to focus in that moment.

And so little subtle things that are trying to increase someone’s focus and the focus of the details of their whether it’s their mechanics or whatever it is, but creating those levels of focus, I think can be very impactful.

[01:08:33] Mike Klinzing: Got it.  Well said. All right. I want to wrap up.

Final two part question. Part one. When you look ahead over the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge? And then part two, when you think about what you get to do every day, when you get out of bed in the morning, what brings you the most joy? So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

[01:08:51] Andrew Olson: All right. Biggest, I think the biggest challenge just  in the NBA is it’s the NBA and winning’s hard. And so waking up or not to get to the second question already, but the every day it’s just. How can I get every player a little bit better? And, and so we’ve all been there when there’s shooting slumps or whatever it is.

And I go through them with the players. And so those are the toughest days and moments. And that’s probably contributing to not as many wins as well. And so just that process of winning in the NBA is. easily the biggest challenge. And I think anybody in the NBA would tell you that.

And the biggest joy I think from just from a basketball perspective is just I mean, we’re at the point where we’re getting to the end of the off season and the joy is just the start of the season, I think is that it’s almost here and I think all of us that are in this and everybody that’s watching or whatever the, it’s called hoop it you know, we all love hoops and the reality is, we want it to be on. And so waking up and the game of basketball I think brings us joy and I don’t think I have been doing it for as long as I have and gotten to where I have without it being my joy.

[01:10:23] Mike Klinzing: Could not agree more. Really well said. And I think it captures. People who love basketball. I mean, it never goes away.

The game has been part of my life since ever since I can remember. And it still plays a huge role in what I do every single day when I wake up. And so again, for you to be able to do that at the highest level. Yeah. Unbelievable thrill. And again, I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to jump out with us tonight.

Before we get out you want to share where people can reach out to you if they have questions, if you feel comfortable sharing anything, and then after you do that, I’ll jump back in and wrap it up.

[01:10:59] Andrew Olson: Yeah. I first of all, just thank you for having me on. It was a pleasure. It’s always there’s moments that I get to relive that help shape and mold my career.

And so talking about them is always a special feeling and brings back great memories. But yeah, I’m on social media but it’s @shootcoach. And that was back to when I was in the personal training days and trying to brand myself and it stuck. So that’s that.

And if you want to reach out, I can talk to you there and we can go from there.

[01:11:36] Mike Klinzing: Again, Andrew, can’t thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule to jump on with us. Really appreciate it. Wish you a ton of luck this year with the Cavs. Obviously we’ll be here, If Jason was on, he and I could both say it, we’re rooting hard for the Cavs this year.

And again, to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.