JIM HARRICK – HEAD COACH OF THE 1995 NCAA CHAMPION UCLA BRUINS – EPISODE 914

Website – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Harrick

Facebook – facebook.com/jim.harrick

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Jim Harrick was the head men’s basketball coach at UCLA, Pepperdine University, the University of Rhode Island and the University of Georgia over a combined total of 23 seasons. During the 1994–1995 season, he led UCLA to the school’s eleventh national championship, its first since the 1974–75 season.

Harrick’s coaching career began at Morningside High School in Inglewood, California where he served as an assistant coach from 1964 to 1969 and as head coach from 1970 to 1973. He was then hired as an assistant coach at Utah State University from 1974 to 1977. Next, Harrick spent two seasons as an assistant coach at UCLA from 1978 to 1979. His first collegiate head coaching job was at Pepperdine University in 1979, where he led the school to four NCAA tournament appearances and was named conference coach of the year four times.

In 1988, he returned to UCLA as head coach where won the 1995 National Championship with the Bruins.  His time at UCLA was followed by head coaching stints at Rhode Island from 1997-1999 and Georgia from 199-2003. 

Harrick returned to the bench as an assistant coach at California State University, Northridge from 2018-2021. 

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Listen and learn from Jim Harrick, Head Coach of the 1995 National Champion UCLA Bruins.

What We Discuss with Jim Harrick

• His first coaching opportunity at Morningside High School in Inglewood, California after leaving West Virginia where he grew up
• Modeling his coaching style after John Wooden and Pete Newell
• “I just could never get enough of competing.”
• “We all got a master’s degree in coaching at those John Wooden summer camps.”
• “If you can find a mentor that can teach you your craft, can push the button that makes you better, you’ll be so much better off. Find someone that you can latch on to and learn from.”
• “I drove into Los Angeles in 1960 and I knew my cousin, his brother, sister, and mother. 19 years later I’m the head basketball coach at Pepperdine and 28 years later I’m the head basketball coach at UCLA. I just marvel at the opportunities.”
• Getting his first opportunity at the college level at Utah State as an assistant coach
• The feeling he got stepping into Pauley Pavilion for the first time as an assistant at UCLA
• “I get on my knees every day and thank the Lord for John Wooden.”
• His time as the Head Coach at Peeperdine
• The scrutiny he faced as the Head Coach at UCLA
• The story behind the Tyus Edney Shot against Missouri in the second round of the NCAA Tournament in 1995
• “I’ve told my players for years, you’ll never be successful if you cannot communicate your thoughts and ideas to others.”
• “Pepperdine was the greatest. training ground for Jim Herrick in the history of the world.”
• “I’ve made my name all my career on Southern California high school basketball players. I believe in them. I trust them. I know how good they are.”
• The recruitment of Don Mclean to UCLA
• “You must go through adversity before you reach the mountaintop.”
• The leadership of Ed O’Bannon during the 95 National Championship Season
• “I always preach to my seniors, coach the freshmen, teach them how to be a leader, teach them what it’s like in the locker room, teach them what it’s like to win, to be together, to share the ball, to win and lose together, and keep your head up and support each other.”
• “When you stop learning, you’re through.”
• Developing players individually within a team concept
• “I don’t make the lineup. You make the lineup. You play your way in the lineup and you play your way out.”
• “You either win or learn.”
• “I always also had a no sniveling rule and I’d preach it all the time. You’re not allowed to snivel.”
• You are a teacher of basketball. The court is an extension of the classroom.”
• “The laws of learning are explanation, demonstration, correction, and repetition.”
• His philosophy on planning a great practice
• “We try to build habits in everything we do.”
• “I want my assistants spread out.  I don’t want them standing there ever, ever, talking to each other. They got to be coaching.”
• His memories from Rhode Island and Georgia
• “For all the coaches in the world, I don’t care about your resume, I don’t care how many games you win or how many games you lose. It’s how you treat young people.”
• “It’s absolutely amazing how a young person’s hearing improves when he hears praise.”
  

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THANKS, JIM HARRICK

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TRANSCRIPT FOR JIM HARRICK – HEAD COACH OF THE 1995 NCAA CHAMPION UCLA BRUINS – EPISODE 914

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here tonight without my co-host Jason Sunkle, but I am pleased to be joined by long time college basketball coach National champion with the UCLA Bruins back in the 90s. Jim Harrick. Jim, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.

[00:00:17] Jim Harrick: Thank you very much. Nice to be with you.

[00:00:21] Mike Klinzing: Excited to have you on, Jim. Looking forward to diving into all the things that you’ve been able to do throughout your coaching career. Let’s start by going back in time to when you were a kid. Tell me a little bit about some of your first experiences with the game of basketball. What made you fall in love with the game when you were younger?

[00:00:40] Jim Harrick: I played in the fourth grade YMCA league and made a basket and I was hooked from then on. Went on and played junior high. We had a seventh, eighth, ninth junior high and I was outstanding in that and went on to high school and I was pretty good in that and played a little bit of college but I wasn’t very good at that.

And I just had a good upbringing, played a lot of basketball and had a great career. I graduated from college and got married to my high school sweetheart, and we got in a car and came to California that night. And I started teaching. You had to have five years of education to teach high school, so I taught junior high for four years.

Went back to school and got my California credential. And I was playing three or four nights a week in an industrial league. And I ran into a guy and it was a head coach at Morningside High School, in Inglewood, California. And we played against each other and became instant friends. And he told me he wanted to hire me, and I became a JV basketball and JV baseball coach at Morningside High School.

The first year John Wooden won his national championship, and I watched his teams play, and I said, that’s the way I want to play. So I started studying his books, went to all his clinics, went to practices. And I developed my game from his game, and almost everything we do is either John Wooden or Pete Newell.

[00:02:18] Mike Klinzing: So, if we go back to your time in West Virginia, how do you end up in California? What’s the conversation like between you and your wife? Was that something that the two of you had planned for a long time, why go from West Virginia to California?

[00:02:31] Jim Harrick: Well, I had a cousin that moved out here.  He moved to El Segundo, which is right on the beach. And he used to hang out in Manhattan Beach. I know you’ve heard of Manhattan Beach. Oh yeah. So he kept telling me about Manhattan Beach and Manhattan Beach this and that, so one day I was walking through the office of my college, University of Charleston in West Virginia.

I went past the placement bureau and I was like I got to make a decision now I’m coming down to graduate and they had a job in California. I said, I’ll apply and I applied for it and got it. That’s how it led me into it.

[00:03:15] Mike Klinzing: When you think back to those first experiences. As a coach, what did you love about it right away?

What did you take to immediately where you’re like, yeah, I can see this is going to be my profession. What did you love about it right away?

[00:03:31] Jim Harrick: I became the JV basketball coach, but also the assistant varsity coach. And I would have to say the competition. I grew up competing and competing and competing and I just could never get enough of competing. So I like the thought of putting together a team and seeing how you do, taking a test every couple days and see how your team does. And, it was very, very exciting. And at that moment UCLA was on a run and that fueled basketball in Southern California like you can’t believe.

The Lakers had just moved out here three or four years ago. They had West and Baylor and basketball was on the rise and everybody was excited about it and it just kept on going man, just kept on going.

[00:04:29] Mike Klinzing: When you got out there, who was your favorite player? Who was your favorite UCLA player during that era while you were coaching in high school?  Who was the guy you really liked?

[00:04:35] Jim Harrick: The guy I really liked was Mike Warren. He was a guard on Kareem Abdul. Hill Street Blues. Hill Street Blues, exactly right. And I got the opportunity, I was an assistant at UCLA for two years. I got the opportunity to be the technical director of a movie. The movie’s called Fast Break, and one of the four stars in it is Mike Warren, and we had a marvelous time doing that, and he epitomized to me what a basketball player was.

A total, unselfish, complete player that understood how to play the game.

[00:05:18] Mike Klinzing: I think when you look back on obviously that era of UCLA basketball and just how influential Coach Wooden was, not just in that era, but continues to be today in the year 2024, the number of coaches that we’ve had the opportunity to talk to on the podcast that when they cite their biggest influence in coaching.

It’s amazing how many people still refer to Coach Wooden as the guy who guides their philosophy, the way they want to coach and how they want to be. And obviously that had a huge impact on you. When you first got out there to California, could you ever have imagined having the opportunity to coach at UCLA?

And maybe not directly following Coach Wooden’s footsteps, but obviously at some point kind of sit in the same chair. Was that on your radar at all when you went out there to coach at the college level, or were you just going out there thinking that, Hey, I’m going to be a high school coach for the rest of my life?

[00:06:21] Jim Harrick: I was trying to get through the end of the month, Coach. I finally, after five years now, I’d already taught nine years now, and I became the head basketball coach at UCLA. And I followed coach and everything is great. And my fifth game as a basketball coach, we came over here and played Sherman Oaks in the Valley.

And they had a good division one player and I had a good division one player. And I sent my team out on the floor. I turned around and sat down. And four rows behind me in the bleachers was John Wood, who had just won his seventh national championship, watching me coach my fifth game. And we won the game, and I had a guy who would have made nine three pointers.

It was not the three pointer in those days, so he made nine shots. And coach came down and knew my name. And I said, Hey, I like your boy on the wing. I said, coach, I go to all your clinics. I go to your practices. I hear you tell the players, I’m going to get you a shot. You got to make it. I told him, I’m going to get you that shot last spring.

You shoot a thousand of them this summer. And he did. I said, I learned all that from you. And never again did John Wooden not know my name and call me by my first name. And fortunately that summer, I became the first director of the John Wooden Basketball Camp. And it was big camps. We had 30, 40 coaches and we’d have breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day together, three times a day.

He’d sit there and I’d sit right across from him. I told the players or the coaches, I said, ask him a question. That’s what he wanted. And we all got a master’s degree in coaching at those summer camps. It was absolutely amazing. But we’re great, great friends other than basketball. He’s my mentor, my teacher, my guider.

I’d like to say advisor, but I’d call him. I’d say, Coach, I need some advice. He said, Jim, I don’t give advice, but I do give opinions. So he was unbelievable. Just an inspiration that I would say to any coach out there. Any young person out there, anybody out there, if you can find a mentor that can teach you your craft, can push your button that makes you better.

You’ll be so much better off. Find someone that you can latch on to and learn from.

[00:09:02] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, that’s well said. I mean, I think that that’s one of the themes that has definitely come through in all the interviews that we’ve done here on the podcast. Just having the opportunity to talk to guys and the number of them that cite somebody who, just as you said, that, Coach Wooden served as a mentor to you and the number of people that have said to me, Hey, it was because of this guy or because of this coach or because of the influence of this person.

They were the ones that really pushed me and helped me along the way to get me to where I am today. I wanted to go into where I eventually ended up. And I think too often, as you know, I think one of the things that it’s easy to do sometimes in coaching and I think in teaching as well, is you kind of get stuck in your own little world and you sometimes don’t see out of it.

And so to be able to have a mentor, somebody that you can go to, to talk to when things maybe aren’t going as well as you’d like them to or. Oftentimes, even in good times, right, to be able to talk to somebody and, and make sure that you’re doing it right. To me, I just think having a mentor, somebody that you can use as a sounding board is, is tremendously valuable.

And it sounds like that, that was the case for you.

[00:10:11] Jim Harrick: Well, first of all, I look back on my career and there’s no question in my mind, there are no coincidences in life that the Lord guided me in every step of my way. I look at things I did and the decisions I made, and I know He guided my life. I knew my cousin out here and my wife and I drove into town in Los Angeles in 1960 and I knew my cousin, his brother, sister, mother.

19 years later I’m the head basketball coach at Pepperdine and 28 years later I’m the head basketball coach at UCLA. And I just marvel at the opportunities that I’ve created and made and happened to me. And I just treasure the journey getting there. It’s just absolutely, to me, an incredible journey.

[00:11:12] Mike Klinzing: How do you make the jump from Morningside to Utah State? What’s the connection there that allows you to go from the high school level to the college level? How does that happen?

[00:11:21] Jim Harrick: I was a JV coach and I was an assistant varsity coach. We had Kevin Love’s dad, Stan Love, who made the NBA.

And Frank Arnold was the assistant at Oregon, recruited him and got him to Oregon. And obviously we became really good friends, all of us. And then our head coach, Lee Smeltzer, got the College of the Canyons job, a brand new junior college in, in Valencia out by Magic Mountain. And I became the head basketball coach in 69.

And I had a great player named Billy Ingram. And Frank Arnold at Oregon came in and recruited him and took him to Oregon. Now I got two guys up there. Well, they’re not emails and cell phones in those days, and not everybody knew everybody like they do today. A few years later, a couple years later, Frank Arnold became the assistant basketball coach at UCLA.

And he watched our teams play in 1973. We had the number one high school team in America and he’d watch us play. And he and I, he and his wife one time called me and said, I want to take you and your wife to dinner. We went to dinner. And he said, Hey, I’m going to get a job. I want you to be my assistant.

And that started me thinking, golly, maybe I never thought about that. It never crossed my mind. And to be a college coach, that was good. Gracious. And he applied for the Utah State job and didn’t get it. And called the guy because he knew him really well and congratulated him. Said, what are you looking for?

He said, I’m looking for somebody from Southern California. And Frank says, I got the man for you. And called Wooden and Wooden said, and Gary Cunningham, who was the other assistant who I also knew really well. There’s two schools in Inglewood, Morningside and Inglewood, and Gary played at Inglewood, so we kind of had a little niche together, and all three of them recommended me, but Frank was the key, and I got the job at Utah State and spent four years there, and then lo and behold, Gary Cunningham gets the UCLA job and hires me, and I come back.

And that was the turning point. That was a turning point of my career, getting the assistant’s job at UCLA. And probably thought, Hey, maybe I can get a job from here. Denny Crum went to Louisville, Frank Arnold went to BYU. So it was a great opportunity for me.

[00:13:58] Mike Klinzing: What was it like the first time you stepped into Pauley Pavilion as a member of the coaching staff. Obviously, you’ve been out there in California for a long time, you’ve looked up to Coach Wooden, you had that right in front of you, that had to be surreal. I don’t

[00:14:17] Jim Harrick: I don’t know how old you are. 54. 54. If you remember the Wooden years at UCLA, I mean, it was off the chart how unbelievably popular they were.

And the Bruin Nation was huge. Now this is just two years after Wooden retired, and it’s still a big time job. And well, I tell you, I stepped across that line and I got cold chills. Now we’re coaching David Greenwood, who got drafted second. Roy Hamilton got drafted 10th. Brad Holland got drafted 14th.

Kiki Vandeweghe, who’s spent 15 years in the league. We got some really, really good players, and what a joy. And what happened was John Wooden I get on my knees every day and thank the Lord for John Wooden. The John Wooden system of basketball, which I call not the only way to play. Just the best and I knew every drill, I knew every sequence, I knew the offense backwards and forwards, and then I got to coach with Gary Cunningham, who had just spent 10 years with Coach Wooden, and I did tighten every screw on every drill.

Two years later I get the Pepperdine job and I used everything and we won the league five times in nine years out there and that was an area where we never had a reporter. We had to call our teams into the paper if we wanted to get them in and no one ever said a word about me.

I mean nothing. Nothing. Now, nine years, I’m 13 years in high school. Two years as six years an assistant and nine years at Pepperdine. No one ever said a word about me. And then I get to UCLA job and ooh, become Darth Vader baby. All of a sudden,

[00:16:24] Mike Klinzing: Here comes the spotlight, right?  That spotlight gets a little brighter.

[00:16:27] Jim Harrick: Well, they had letters to the editor started, and call in radio started, and you’re just target is what you are. You’re in a city that half the people are SC people, and they just get on you to rag on you. It’s crazy. If you don’t win every game, then some of the Bruins get upset. So it was a wonderful, wonderful time.

You had to have thick skin and, and we went to the tournament every year and I told my granddaughter who just got a scholarship to University of Utah. She’s one of the top 100 players in the country, had a marvelous, marvelous, marvelous career. And they got beat Saturday in the tournament.

And I told her, I texted her, I said, Hey, I was in 16 NCAA tournaments. 15 times I felt like you do right now. Accept the pain, experience, and move on because you’ve had a marvelous, marvelous, marvelous career. And but I did reach the mountaintop one time and maybe that was all worth it.

[00:17:41] Mike Klinzing: What was your favorite moment, if you could pin it down, of that national championship year?

Or maybe your favorite story from, from that season? Whether it’s something, one of the games that was the most memorable? Was there a locker room moment, a practice moment? Just when you think back to that year, what fond memory jumps out first?

[00:18:02] Jim Harrick: That’s easy. I want all the coaches that have ever listened to this to understand, we’re the number one team in the tournament, the number one seed of the number one seeds.

We’re 31-1, we’re finished 31-1, and Missouri makes a layup with 4.8 seconds to go in a second round NCAA tournament in Boise, Idaho, and five guys called timeout. And they turn 94 feet away and never did in my life that I feel 10 eyes rivet right through my heart. They’re walking towards me and they’re saying without saying it, Coach help us, we’re dying.

And that is, that was to me the defining moment in my coaching career at that moment. Now, I didn’t realize that till the summer. I’m driving down the street, I had to stop the car and say, wow, that was an awesome moment and coaching. And we had lost a game my first year at UCLA. A guy went the length of the floor in five seconds and kind of underhanded it and made it.

And I was at the Forum when Jerry West, not the Forum, this was LA, Los Angeles College, Los Angeles Sports Arena in the 60s when Jerry West went from the foul line to the basket in three seconds. They said he couldn’t be done. They timed it the next week and he did it. Again. And so we worked on that all the time.

I got it from Don Nelson, Golden State Warriors. A great drill where you throw the ball to the guy and he’s got a defender on him. He’s right underneath the basket. He’s got to go length of floor in six seconds and they dribble out of bounds. They kick it off their knee. They run banana routes and nobody could do it.

And I had a young guy by the name of Tyus Edney, road runner, road runner. And guys would say, let me watch him. I knew he could do it. We worked on it once a week, so I had that in my bag. And we had played the Fab Five a couple, two years before that in the second round of the NCAA tournament. It was a tie ball game, and they stole the ball in half court, dribbled in for a layup to win the game, and dropped it to Ed O’Bannon, which a good point guard does.

They kicked it out of bounds, got in second, saw an overtime, and beat us. So when I went to the bench, I told him what I wanted to do, sit down, my assistants would say throw the long pass, throw the long pass, but I sat him down and said, I want you in the corner, you in the corner, Cameron, you take it out, Cameron Dollar, take it out, and Tyus?

I want you to get the ball and take it the length of the floor and take it right to the rim because they’re not going to foul you, they’re only up one right, they’re not going to foul you. And so it was unbelievable why I did this, I put my arm around him, I walked out the half court, I’m standing at half court, and I kind of scream, Tyus, do you have a crystal clear understanding of what I said?

He said, yes, you want me to shoot the ball. And right at that moment, Ed O’Bannon, which was, I told him eight minutes before, get the ball to Ed O’Bannon. He brought his back, got his back in the game. He walks by and says, Tyus, get me the ball! And I said, Tyus, absolutely. I want you to shoot the ball. We didn’t have time to make a pass.

And this young man got the ball and came up to the left sideline and they double teamed him. He went left handed behind his back at half court and with two dribbles, he was that fast. Two dribbles went to the rim and just missed a guy’s hand by an inch and kissed it off the glass. And I just thought that summer, what a series of moments.

that I had when those five guys called time out and started walking towards me. It was, to me, the defining moment of my coaching career.

[00:22:26] Mike Klinzing: Obviously one of the most iconic plays in NCAA history. You put together a film of March Madness highlights and that Tyus Endy shot is going to come up every single time and to hear you describe what that huddle’s like, and I think any coach or any player can relate to that moment in terms of looking to their leader, right?

Those guys came off the floor, and they needed somebody who was in control of the situation. And even though you may have had butterflies stirring around in your stomach, you knew that those guys needed you in that moment to have clarity of vision of what you wanted them to do. And to be able to communicate that as clearly as you did and walk out to half court and make sure that Tyus said he understood exactly what needed to be done.

To me, that’s just the definition of what a coach and a leader does in a moment of adversity, for lack of a better way of saying a moment where you just need somebody in that moment to provide that clear, calm voice of, Hey, I know there’s a lot going on, but this is what we need to accomplish.

And I think that’s really the true vision of what a coach to me. That’s what a coach does. I mean, that’s the very definition of what coaching is all about.

[00:23:54] Jim Harrick: I tell my players, I’ve told my players for years, you’ll never be successful if you cannot communicate your thoughts and ideas to others, no matter how old they are, how big they are in the company, or how, whether it’s the president of the school or the janitor of the school or whatever, you got to be able to communicate.

I’ll give you a little side note, there’s another highlight of the great NCAA tournament play when Bryce Drew took a pass, long pass from half court and a guy jumped in the air and threw it to him in the air and he hits the jumper to beat Mississippi State in the first round of the NCAA Tournament when he’s playing for Valparaiso.  Do you remember that?

[00:24:37] Mike Klinzing: I remember that shot really well.

[00:24:37] Jim Harrick: That’s a great highlight. My son Jim was an assistant on that team with Scott Drew, the Baylor coach, and Bryce Drew made the shot, and Scott Drew and Jim Herrick Jr. were the assistant coaches to Homer Drew on that team, and I’ll share this with you, Jim got a glioblastoma brain tumor a couple years ago and passed away in April and our family’s been kind of really devastated from this time on.  But let’s go on. Don’t talk about it.

[00:25:12] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. I’m sorry. And I know that in doing my research clearly those are two moments in the NCAA tournament that anybody who’s a fan of college basketball will clearly remember. When you were in that position as the head coach at UCLA, and obviously you have the tradition of the program and you have your relationship with Coach Wooden and you have, again, as you said, all the fans that are a part of UCLA basketball and the Los Angeles community and everything that goes along with what UCLA basketball is all about.

Once you were in that position for a year or two and you kind of got acclimated to it. What was the recruiting like for you in that era as you went out on the road and you were talking to recruits and you think back to again the time when Coach Wooden was there and was so dominant that as time went on, college basketball parity became much more common and you couldn’t build the same type of dynasty that Coach Wooden did.

But when you went out and talked to recruits, what was your sales pitch to recruits at UCLA during that era?

[00:26:27] Jim Harrick: We have to remember now, I was a high school coach at Morningside High School, right in Inglewood, four miles from the airport and about 10 miles, maybe eight miles from UCLA. I was there for nine years.

When we were the number one high school team in America, I was in the Southern California High School Basketball Hall of Fame. So I knew almost every coach, and almost every coach knew me, because I reached out to them when I was at Utah State. Almost every guy I’d write, I’d have on a list, I’d write them and tell them I needed their help.

Help me if you see a player, call me. Let me know. I did that at Pepperdine and Pepperdine was the greatest. training ground for Jim Herrick in the history of the world. I was a high school coach for four years, assistant for six, and a head basketball coach in college division one for nine years. When I got the UCLA job, I was absolutely prepared.

I’ve made my name all my career on Southern California high school basketball players. I believe in them. I trust them. I know how good they are. And consequently, I just went after guys and went after guys hard. The greatest got me started was Don McLean, who’s the all time leading scorer in the history of UCLA.

He had been in my camp at Pepperdine for four years, and I knew him, and I knew him very well. And I got the job, and I thought it was going to be easy to recruit him, but it really wasn’t. I had to find the button that could get this kid to make a decision. And I got him, he was a terrific player, all time leading scorer.

Now Kareem had three years and he had four, I want to paraphrase that. I got Derrick Martin that year, who spent 15 years in the NBA. So I had a nice recruiting class. I had a couple guys back, Pooh Richardson, who maybe is the all time best guard I’ve ever coached. And Trevor Wilson was back. So we had a little nucleus got in the tournament played North Carolina in the second round, had them down eight at half and just couldn’t finish the play.

Wasn’t just quite good enough to finish the play. And then I got Tracy Murray and Mitchell Butler, both spent 11 years in the NBA. And I started in 93. 92. We played Indiana in the tip off classic in Springfield, Massachusetts. We beat them, we’re up about 18. And lo and behold, we come back in the Elite Eight that year and have to play Indiana. And I’d say 95 percent of the time a team has to come by. I remember UCLA going into Houston with Kareem and getting beat. If you remember that game when Alcindor’s eye was scratched and he didn’t play very well. And Elvin Hayes had a monster game as one of the tournaments. That game was in the Astrodome, wasn’t it?

Yeah, one of the first nationally televised games ever. Yes. And they came back that year, and Houston had to play UCLA in the semifinals at the sports arena in Los Angeles, and UCLA beat them 30. So I remember that, and I always felt that if you have to play somebody in the preseason, and then beat them, and then see them in a tournament, You got your hands full, and Indiana beat us good, and I thought that team that year had a chance to win a national championship but obviously we didn’t get the kind of draw we needed to get to get in there, and then they beat us, and every year you come in, sometimes you’re really playing good, sometimes you’re injured, and sometimes your team’s not playing very well, I know the year before we won, we were number one in the country in January, and one guy had some personal problems, one guy had a back operation, one guy got a high ankle sprain, and one guy got back spasms, and we were seven and seven down the stretch, and a wounded duck going in the NCAA tournament and got our brains beat out, but that proved to me what I always felt, you must go through adversity before you reach the mountaintop.  And that was a catalyst that made that team so great the following year.

[00:31:01] Mike Klinzing: How did you use that tough ending to that season to kind of lead you into the next year? Is that something that you guys talked about? Is that something that the players talked about amongst themselves? How did you guys as coaches utilize that as motivation?  Just what did you do to utilize that to be able to motivate you for the next season?

[00:31:20] Jim Harrick: I’d like to tell you I’m a genius and I did this and I did that. But I’m going to tell you the real story was we had the Gatorade National Player of the Year, Ed O’Bannon. Now he had torn his knee up as a freshman and really, his sophomore and junior years, he was good, but he wasn’t as good as it could have been. But he finally grew in. That game, at the end of that game, Ed O’Bannon, quiet as a mouse, never said a word. I could never yell at him. I’d have to go up and pat him on the butt and whisper in his ear, I need you to do this, Ed.

He’d say, okay, but I never one time I ever yelled at him, but I mean to tell you when we got beat the year before his junior year, he got after that team and became just a supreme leader of our basketball team. He did it. I didn’t do it. He got those guys together, and I tell you, Monday they were on the track running and in the gym playing five on five.

And I had nothing to do with that. He organized everything and said, get your butt in there. And I remember the following year we played Kentucky. You had Rick Pitino had seven pros on his team. We played in the Wooden Classic at the pond in Anaheim and a second game of the year, and we beat them by one.

Luckily we were fortunate and Toby Bailey. Got three minutes in the game. He was a freshman. So we go in the locker room and, and everybody’s screaming and yelling and jumping, because that’s a big win for us. Toby Bailey’s over in the corner, pouting like a little boy, sniveling like a rat. And boy, I mean to tell you, Ed O’Bannon went over there and grabbed him by the shirt, get in this huddle, cheer for your teammate.

And I mean, he laid him out. Toby Bailey got 26 in the National Championship game. That’s what a great leader does. He controls the locker room. He controls the team. We had three great leaders, Ed O’Bannon, Tyus Edne and George Zedick, who was a great, great, great locker room guy. He was an academic All American in economics and just a brilliant, brilliant kid from Prague, Czechoslovakia, who’s now the Jay Bilas of Europe over there calling games, but a marvelous guy. Tyus Edney, of course, was just a great leader. And boy, you got great leadership. It just helps your team. And their work ethic was better than anybody on the team, the three seniors. Their leadership. And Ed O’Bannon was the guy.

[00:34:09] Mike Klinzing: Were there things that, in your coaching career, that you were able to do to develop your players as leaders?

Or do you think that some of those guys just kind of had that leadership gene, for lack of a better way of saying it?

[00:34:21] Jim Harrick: Well, I always preach to my seniors, coach the freshmen, teach them how to be a leader, teach them what it’s like in the locker room, teach them what it’s like to win, to be together, to share the ball, to win and lose together, and keep your head up and support each other.

That’s what the greatest thing about having a team is. And I learned too. I learned too, I recruited as a freshman. I didn’t think much of him, quite frankly. And first Saturday that we practiced on Monday and Saturday we had our UCLA basketball clinic, and Coach Wooden would never come to practice because he thought he would steal my thunder, but he came to every game.

And there are lines of people that talk to him. I mean, it’s incredible. But he earned it. But he’s sitting in our clinic over there. I mean, we have a clinic. Speeches in the morning, talking basketball coaches. But in the afternoon, our team practices and all the coaches got to watch. And we had a great following of coaches.

You’re talking about UCLA and Los Angeles, 660 high schools, Southern California. So we had a lot of coaches and JV coaches and women coaches. So we have a big crowd, and he’s sitting on the bleacher downstairs right there, and I’m up walking the sidelines, and he kind of says, Jim, come here.

I go over there, and I lean down, and he says, the little fella, talking about Tyus Edney, says, the little fella sees the floor better than anybody you have. Tyus Edney is immediately in the rotation. I was born at night, but not last night. And one other time, after the year after we won it, we recruited a 6’11 kid named Jelani McCoy.

And we’re playing our blue white game. First, put our uniforms on, play in front of people, and I let my assistants do the coaching. I’m sitting up in the stands, and Toby Bailey’s team’s getting beat by a team. 10 or 12 and a half. So I just I’m kind of upset. I mean, what’s going on? Toby, you’re Toby Bailey.

I go down there and I say, Toby, what in the world’s going on? And he says to me, Coach, they got Jelani. Well, Jelani McCoy immediately became the starting center on our basketball team. And you never, when you, and Coach Wooden, this is Coach Wooden’s statement, when you stop learning, you’re through.

[00:37:07] Mike Klinzing: To go along with that, I think one of the things that is always interesting is when you have someone who, like yourself, started your career at the high school level and you moved up the ranks through college and that eventually you get to the point where I mean you’re coaching guys who are NBA players, have long careers, NBA all stars, guys who are playing the game at the highest And so I think it’s always interesting as a coach, how do you make sure that you’re giving those kinds of players who are your best players, who are your most talented players, your most skilled players?

How do you make sure as a coach that you’re giving them what they need to help them improve as individual players to develop them for eventually for a lot of them became professional careers, but then also making sure that those individual talents are meshing into the team concept. So, how do you give those guys what they need individually and yet still get them to buy into the team concept?

[00:38:16] Jim Harrick: Well, I start with exactly what people are looking for. They’re not looking where a guy can score, although you do have to score. But you got to defend, you got to rebound, you got to get deflections, you got to dive on the floor, you got to take a charge, you got to be able to make your foul shots, and you got to be a great teammate.

That’s what the NBA looks for. And I start with that. And I tell them, I say, fellas, I don’t make the lineup. You make the lineup. You play your way in the lineup and you play your way out. I keep stats every day. I give you a chance every single day to impress me with our little scrimmage at the end of practice.

And I keep stats on it. And not only do you have to do it at three o’clock. Then you got to turn around and if you get a chance, you got to do it at 7:30. And then you got to turn around and do it in a tournament. And you just got to keep getting better and getting better. And hopefully each and every game we talk about.

You either win or learn, and, and each game you get your strengths and you get your weaknesses, and you work on your weaknesses and your strengths. And I just keep hammering things like that to them daily, and my door’s open, you can always talk to me, you always understand, I have one guy who played 11 years in the NBA, but he wasn’t a great shooter. His sophomore year, he started the season in December, played 13 games in December. He was 0 for 13 from three point line. So I called him in, I talked to him for about 10 minutes, asking him a hundred questions. You like school? You, how’s your mom?

Every question is yes. You like your classes? You like to play basketball? You have passion, all that stuff. I finally said, young man, if you shoot another three, you’re never going to play again. And he learned. I said, I love you very much, but you can’t shoot a three anymore in our program. And he learned, and his last game, I’ll never forget, he had 14 points, eight rebounds, six assists, three dabs on the floor, six deflections, two charges.

And rebound. I mean, and then played 11 years in the NBA.

[00:40:47] Mike Klinzing: Hey, the game. certainly has changed today. He would have said, Coach, 0 for 13. That’s the first half. I’m just cooling off here in the first half. I can still get it. I can still get up a few more threes in the second half. I mean, the game, the way the game is played today.

I say this all the time. I played college basketball from 1988 to 1992, and it was a completely different, completely different game. I can probably count on one hand, the number of ball screens that I defended and ran as a, I like to shoot threes as much as anybody, but man, you look at the way that the game has changed and how much teams are, how many three pointers are taken by individual players and by teams.

It’s, it’s kind of, it’s kind of amazing the way that the game has changed over the last 15 years. It’s really crazy. Crazy,

[00:41:37] Jim Harrick: Where’d you play?

[00:41:42] Mike Klinzing: I played at Kent State.

[00:41:46] Jim Harrick: Oh really? Good, good. Yeah. I went to Marshall for two years, so we were in that league and I’ve been there.

[00:41:52] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, I had a really good career. I was very fortunate. Again, that was my only, that was my only division one scholarship offer coming out of high school and ended up being able to, being fortunate enough to start for. For three years and basically my last three years, unless I was in foul trouble, the game was a blowout. I didn’t come off the floor.

So, I always tell people I had zero complaints about my college career from a from a playing time standpoint and an opportunity standpoint. I look back on that time fondly, but in so many ways, the game, the things that players do today, the way the game is played in a lot of ways, it’s unrecognizable. I still cringe when it’s a three on two or a two on one and a guy flares out to catch the ball and shoot a three instead of just cutting to the basket and getting the layup. Part of me still can’t figure that out. It still just doesn’t seem right to me, even though I understand why it’s done.  It’s crazy to me that that’s the way the game is played.

[00:42:54] Jim Harrick: I agree 100%. And I always also had a no sniveling rule and I’d preach it all the time. You’re not allowed to snivel. You’re not allowed to complain about the travel, the balls, the uniform, the practice facility, the long ride or whatever. You know, certainly not allowed to complain about the coach.

And I said, if you ever want to talk to me, please come in. Tell me what’s on your mind and communicate your thoughts and ideas to me. And I had very, very, very few complaints from my players. From the fans, whoo!

[00:43:36] Mike Klinzing: Now, let me ask you this. How do you think, when you look at how the coaching profession has changed and you look at the landscape around college basketball, and I guess what I always think of in this case, Jim, is I just think about the social media aspect of what’s out there for coaches and for kids today, that it used to be. And look, I know the level of college basketball that I played at was not at the same level of college basketball as the caliber at UCLA and Georgia and Rhode Island and Pepperdine, where you where you were fortunate enough to coach.

But at the same time, it feels like people have so much access now to players through the computer, through social media. They have so much access to be able to voice their opinions, good or bad. And I just think as a 18, 19, 20 year old college kid, Having to navigate some of those things. And as you said, even back in your era, you had to hear from complaints from fans and people and this, and if you didn’t win, they were complaining about this or that, or Coach Harrick doesn’t know what he’s doing on offense, or he’s not doing it exactly the same way that John Wooden would have done it, this and that, and I don’t know.

That was clearly a different era from a media standpoint, and now, like, just there’s so much out there, and I’m just curious, like, some of your coaching friends that you talk to that are still, that are still coaching, how do they handle that? And how do they feel about it? Or just what’s your thoughts on kind of where we are from a media standpoint in college basketball right now?

[00:45:12] Jim Harrick: Oh, my thoughts are this. Most of the guys coaching today have never taught a class and you are a teacher of basketball. The court is the extension of the classroom. You’ve got to have knowledge of the subject matter, but you must also have knowledge of how to teach, where you learn 10 percent when you hear it, 20 percent when you see it, and 70 percent when you do it.

And the laws of learning are explanation, demonstration, correction, and repetition. And so many coaches have never taught a class. I cringe when I’ve been in thousands of practices, a thousand practices. When I go to a practice and I don’t see a guy with a clipboard or a three by five card or a sheet of paper that’s planned his practice, I just wonder, what are you, I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do, I think I’ll do this now, I think I’ll do that now.

I mean, how can that happen? I was a high school English teacher and we had to send in our lesson plans and boy, you talk about snivel, I sniveled like a rat, but you know what, when I got to Pepperdine and UCLA, wow, did I plan my practice and I learned all that from John Wooden.

[00:46:45] Mike Klinzing: Being able to plan practice and go through that process, it’s always interesting. That’s one of the questions that I like to ask coaches on here is, what’s their process for actually planning a practice? Do they sit down by themselves, are they on the computer, are they talking it through with their staff, are they watching the film of the day, the previous day’s practice?

How do they go about putting that together? So let me ask you that, how do you, how did you put together? a practice plan for a given day. What was your process look like? I don’t know if it evolved or changed throughout the course of your career, but just when you think about, hey, I got to sit down and plan tomorrow’s practice, what did that look like for you?

[00:47:26] Jim Harrick: I’ve got my practice plan for Morningside High School. I would always sit down with my staff. I didn’t in high school, but when I got to college, we always planned our practice. And probably if you pin me down, I would say the greatest thing I learned from John Wooden, and there were thousands of them, was how to practice.

I mean, I’ve got it, I got it pinpointed to the nth degree. You start with a moving, cutting, passing, shooting drill, and we always worked 20 minutes before we ever touched anybody. For John Wooden, and he had 30 minute individual attention, 30 minute individual attention, and I did that also. So I went 30 minutes and then 20 more minutes.

We never touched anybody, and he felt you get really loose and sweating and all your limbs, and consequently I never got anybody hurt, and he never got anybody hurt at practice. It is an unbelievable philosophy, and I learned that very quickly. You follow hard drills by easy drills, full court drills by half court drills.

You go one half, in the first hour of practice, you take 25 percent of your practice’s team and 75 percent of your practice’s part the whole drills, et cetera. And the second half of practice, 75 percent of your practice is team and 25 percent of your practices part the whole individual stuff. So I learned how to draw up a practice plan and it is flawless.

And I’ll tell you something, I’ve only given it to five or six coaches who’ve asked and every one of those coaches are highly successful.

[00:49:19] Mike Klinzing: Ho did you pick out or decide what individual drills you were going to do on a given day? Like what particular skill or what particular offensive or defensive team concept you really wanted to focus in on for a given practice?

[00:49:34] Jim Harrick: I had an outline. And I’d start with a shooting drill, passing, cutting, shooting drill, make sure we didn’t travel with the ball. And then we’d go to what we call floor length and open up, work on our footwork, our sliding, our change of pace, change direction, defensive slide for ten minutes.

And then we’d go to our fast break drill for five minutes. Then we’d get into rebounding for five minutes. And we spent a 10 minute time on zone offense versus zone defense or press offense versus press defense. And then we’d run a fast break drill and the hour would be over. And we come back a second hour and spend 10 minutes running our man to man offense with no defense.

Then we run four on four on four defensive drill, 10 minutes. And then we would shoot for 10 minutes. And then with 25 or 30 minutes, we go five on five control, which is the best drill in basketball, where your offense has the ball and you got your defense, your first team versus the second team.

And the offense runs the offense. If they score, they press. If they didn’t score, they get back on defense. So you’re working on offensive basketball, pressing, and transition defense. Now, if you are scored upon by the second team, then you got to run your press offense. You’ve got to play defense.

You got to run your press offense. Or if you don’t, if they don’t score, then you run a fast break. So you get all those things. And we go down the other end, whether it’s a press offense or the fast break, and I blow the whistle and we turn it over. And consequently, all 10 guys get an opportunity to know exactly what we’re doing.

And when they get in the game, it’s easy because they’ve been doing it for every day. It takes 20 to 28 days to build a habit. We try to build habits in everything we do and with a being a very, very, very fundamentally sound program.

[00:51:46] Mike Klinzing: How did you divvy up the responsibilities between your assistant coaches?

On the practice floor, did you like to have one coach working with, let’s say, if you had the first group versus the second group, did you have one coach with, with each of those groups? Did you divide them up offense and defense? Did it vary day to day? Just, how’d you divide those responsibilities?

[00:52:06] Jim Harrick: Well, I want my guys spread out.  I don’t want them standing there ever, ever. talking to each other. They got to be coaching. So when the one in one’s the other end, one’s on the sideline, they’ve got responsibilities that I give them during practice. And we’re running five on five. We’re running man to man offense, no defense.

And I got one guy watching the big man, got one guy watching the outside guys, and one guy yelling safety every time the ball goes up. Safety immediately. Medium safety, deep safety. When we have the bigs, I have one guy go down and work with the bigs, one guy go down and work with the outside guys. Or, so I would divide it up.

I’d want them certainly involved in practice at all times. I don’t want them standing. I don’t want them bored. I don’t want them not doing anything. I want them coaching at all times. But then again, we never stop practice. Never. We stop one minute at the end of one hour. And we never stop practice. Tell you a good thing we do is we, at the end of the first hour, we get a water break and that’s about 30 seconds.

I said, all right, on the in line, we’re going to run down and back. I got a ball, I’m standing at the foul line. I said, down and back, ready? 11 seconds, ready? And I’ll stop and throw the ball to one guy. He makes a one on one. We don’t run and boy, they cheer for him. And the espirit d’core is really built a little bit in that.

That was really good. Something good ee always did. I thought.

[00:53:46] Mike Klinzing: How about developing? I know you had a lot of guys over the course of time that worked for you as assistant coaches that eventually moved on and got an opportunity to. lead their own programs. How did you think about your responsibility as a head coach for not just developing your team and your players, but also developing your assistant coaches to help prepare them for their eventual opportunity, if that’s what they wanted to do, to take over their own program as a head coach?

[00:54:15] Jim Harrick: I always talk to them about, hey, I always talk to them about jobs. We always talk about jobs. Not two of you can’t go for the same job. That was a rule I had. And if a job interests you, I’m going to go to bat for you 100%. Help you in every single way I can. But I also want you to learn. I want you to develop.

I want you to grow. And I want to see growth in your game. Where you help guys, where you work guys out, where you spend time, where you exactly follow everything you need to do to be a better basketball coach and work at your craft. And I was fortunate enough to send 12 assistant coaches to be head coaches in division one.

[00:55:04] Mike Klinzing: I think that’s one of the things that is really, I think, underrated when it comes to head coaches and their ability to develop their assistant coaches. into quality head coaches. And I think when you look over the course of a coach’s career, somebody who has longevity, I think their ability to develop quality head coaches is really a testament to what they do pouring into people.

Because so often I think as coaches, we talk about Hey, this is what we do for our players and for our program. And we sometimes, I don’t know if forget is the right word, but those people that you’re coaching with, you’re spending so much time with them there. You might spend more time with them than your family, right?

During the season. And so to be able to pour into them and give them an opportunity to be able to be prepared for that next job and that next role, and eventually being able to lead their own program. To me, I think that that is the mark of somebody who is a great coach and somebody who also cares about the people who are a part of their program.

Obviously, if you’re developing them as coaches, they’re also helping you as the head coach of that program where you are now to continue to be successful. And it sounds like that’s something that you took a lot of pride in being able to. and allow them to move on and have success. Let’s talk briefly a little bit about your two stops at Rhode Island and Georgia after you left UCLA.

Just tell me a little bit about each one of those places, what you loved about them and what made them special in terms of the opportunities that you had at those two schools.

[00:56:50] Jim Harrick: Well, first of all you better have a good wife. And second of all, I think part of my success was a tender loving care you give your players.

They knew that I cared about them. I had two of the greatest years of my life at Rhode Island. I love Rhode Island. I walked into Tyson Wheeler and Cutino Mobley. and recruited Lamar Odom, and we went to Elite 8 the first year, and to me got a bad call not to go to the Final Four, taking Rhode Island in the Final Four.

It was a magical, magical run. And the next year, Lamar Odom footer in the championship of the A-10 tournament, and we go to the tournament again. So I went to the tournament twice at Rhode Island. And a guy that had been at Pepperdine, who’s now the president of Georgia, they came after me and I have some regrets leaving, because Rhode Island hired me after UCLA, but I just had a marvelous time in Georgia.

I had some really good teams, and to compete every night in that Southeastern Conference was, oh my heavens. And then we end up winning one time in Rupp. You win in Rupp Arena. Mike, you walk out of there on a cloud nine. Absolutely. Had a great run. Had a nice draft choice in Jarvis Hayes and had some guys that played overseas.

I really had some good teams with all local Georgia kids and we had a marvelous run and I was still keeping contact with all of them from morning. I had a dinner with one of my high school players in Vegas last week and my guys from Georgia and Rhode Island call me all the time, UCLA, 25 year anniversary of UCLA. We had a Zoom call with 18 guys, and three of them were out of the country. It was one of the great nights of my life, and that’s the reward you get for coaching, that relationship, the bond you make with all the players.

[00:59:02] Mike Klinzing: I think that there’s probably no better feeling as a coach, then having one of your former players, or in this case, lots of your former players, pick up the phone and just call you up and say, Hey, coach, and tell you something about what’s going on in their life and, and share that with you. And as you said, when you go through and you know it as well as anybody that when you go through the intensity of a college basketball season, or if you had a kid for four years, you go through the intensity of four college basketball seasons with, with a player, the relationship that you develop and the closeness and just what you have to do to go through and, and make it through that season just from an intensity standpoint.

I think it bonds you, as you said, it bonds you for life. And here’s guys that you coached in high school 50 years ago that you’re still fortunate enough to be able to have contact with and know that you made an impact on them and on their life. And there’s nothing more powerful.

Look, the, the wins and all the things that go along with that are awesome and everybody wants to win. And you said it right off the top that what’d you love about coaching, right? That it was the competition and competing and those wins are. Those wins are really important. And yet at the same time, you look back and those relationships are everything.  I mean, that’s really what it comes down to.

[01:00:34] Jim Harrick: For all the coaches in the world, I don’t care about your resume, I don’t care how many games you win or how many games you lose. It’s how you treat young people.

[01:00:48] Mike Klinzing: Well said. I mean, that’s really what it’s all about.

[01:00:51] Jim Harrick:  I got from Coach Wooden, and write this down as we end, it’s amazing, it’s absolutely amazing how a young person’s hearing improves when he hears praise. Praise and praise. Praise and praise. Yep. Perfect.

[01:01:11] Mike Klinzing: Jim, that’s a great way to end it. I cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to jump on with us. It’s been a pleasure to be able to go back and reminisce about some of the highlights of your career, get some of your wisdom to be able to share with our audience. So I thank you for that and to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.