TIM MACALLISTER – WESTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY MEN’S BASKETBALL ASSISTANT COACH – EPISODE 824

Website – https://wkusports.com/sports/mens-basketball

Email – tim.macallister@wku.edu

Twitter – @BasketballMac

Tim McAallister is entering his first season as a men’s basketball assistant coach at Western Kentucky in the 2023-24 season. He will be entering his fifth collegiate basketball season as an assistant coach.

MacAllister has appeared in five NCAA Tournaments during his tenure, worked with four All-Americans and has worked with multiple players drafted into the NBA.  The Corcoran, Calif., native helped lead Texas Tech to the 2019 NCAA National Championship final and to the Big 12 Conference regular-season championship in his first season as the program’s Chief of Staff.

 MacAllister was named to the NABC’s 2019 Under Armour 30-Under-30 Team, a group selected as 30 of the most outstanding men’s college basketball coaches under the age of 30. He previously spent time as an assistant coach at Georgia Southern, Creighton, and Emory, and as a student assistant at Murray State.

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Get ready to take some notes as you listen to this episode with Tim McAallister, Men’s Basketball Assistant Coach at Western Kentucky University.

What We Discuss with Tim MacAllister

• Growing up as the son of a coach
• Coaching a team on an Air Force base in Kyrgyzstan
• “The ability to positively impact someone to make them perform better or be better.”
• The relationships he built as a student assistant at Murray State
• How Steve Prohm helped him get his first job under Jason Zimmerman at Emory
• Taking a volunteer position at Creighton
• “The pace at which you run things and the space you have in your offense are paramount.”
• Different methods can still lead to success
• Calling players up, not out
• Understanding your own institution in recruiting
• “Regardless of what you say your standards are, it’s whatever you allow.”
• Recruiting the intangibles
• The difficulty of building on success with advent of the transfer portal

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THANKS, TIM MACALLISTER

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TRANSCRIPT FOR TIM MACALLISTER – WESTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY MEN’S BASKETBALL ASSISTANT COACH – EPISODE 824

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without right now, but maybe with at some point my cohost Jason Sunkle, but I am pleased to be joined by men’s basketball assistant coach at Western Kentucky university. Tim MacAllister. Tim, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.

[00:00:17] Tim MacAllister: Thanks, Mike.Really appreciate you guys having me on. Not sure how this is going to go, but let’s, let’s enjoy the ride.

[00:00:22] Mike Klinzing: It’s going to go well, I can guarantee it. We’re going to have some fun. Hopefully we’ll be entertaining along the way and be able to pull out some stuff that will be beneficial for all those coaches out there in our audience who are listening.

So let’s start, Tim, by going back in time to when you were a kid. Tell me about some of your experiences with the game of basketball when you were growing up.

[00:00:40] Tim MacAllister: Yeah, no, basketball has always been a big part of my life. My, my father’s a currently a division three head coach at La Torno University in Texas.

But at the time he was an assistant high school coach. When I was growing up and then he was a head high school coach on the girl’s side. And so I’ve always been around the game. I’ve always really liked the game. I really, and this is going to sound unusual. I, I didn’t even know I loved the game until I got older.

And that was even out of college. And once I got into the military and honor deployment where  I realized I didn’t have it. I had no access to the game of basketball and I was looking around and everybody, everybody around me didn’t seem to be missing it as much as I was, and it became a really weird phenomenon for me and something that I really, really missed, but but yeah, I, I grew up around the game, really enjoyed the game and just got a chance to sit in a lot of really good gyms you know, my father was, he went to the final four in the state of California in the CIF and which is really, really hard to do down in the pyramid at L. A. And I got to kind of sit, you know, and just watch practices. I got to watch the freshman of the year that went to Arizona. I got to sit there and just be around some really, really good basketball minds and some, just some fun times growing up.

[00:01:57] Mike Klinzing: So was coaching then not on your radar or was it on your radar? Because a lot of times when you have somebody who’s. Parent was a coach, those kids kind of grew up and they’re like, ah, you know, someday, even if it’s not necessarily front of mind, I think it’s kind of a lot of times back of mind that, yeah, I’m a player.

Yeah. I like the game. And at some point, I kind of want to emulate what my parent did. So kind of where were you from that standpoint?

[00:02:21] Tim MacAllister: Sure. I was, I was the opposite. I was going to be an FBI or an ATF agent all the way up into You know, going into college, I went in as a criminal justice major. I joined the Air Force in order to in order to really further my my resume in order to get into one of those agencies one of the alphabet agencies in order to really get into that law enforcement career.

And I had no intentions of coaching. None whatsoever. The only thing I had done was I helped assist, I assisted my dad as, as a, like a varsity assistant for about two months before I went to basic training and that was with a bad girls basketball team, no offense to the Logan County Cougars that year, but they weren’t very good.

And That was my only experience. I had no intentions of coaching and really didn’t want to and didn’t figure out I liked it until the deployment to Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan. So you’re there. What

[00:03:16] Mike Klinzing: triggers it besides the fact that you just were away from the game? What parts of it did you miss?

[00:03:22] Tim MacAllister: Yeah, I missed, I missed the ability to just turn on a college basketball game at any point.

Or, or to just be around people who wanted to talk about the game. And it was weird and new for me because I had literally never been without the game. It had been with me, you know, through summers being around my, my dad being around, you know, just the game in general, and it was really an unusual and unnerving feeling for me.

We had a gym there on the base and it started to just as basketball season and winter came around, it was a really empty feeling for me. So when they, when I got an email on base about them needing a basketball coach it really kind of piqued my interest because I just wanted to be back around the game.

What did

[00:04:09] Mike Klinzing: that look like when you were coaching the team

[00:04:11] Tim MacAllister: on the base? Yeah, it was it was an unusual deal because they, they, they needed a basketball coach. And then after volunteering for it, I found out there was no team. So that was kind of, that was, that was an impediment to their, their, their plan.

So you became a recruiter right away. I did. And I didn’t intend to be the head coach either. And they said, all right, you’re the head coach. And I said, okay, that’s great. Mind you, I’m also, you know, really low level airman at the time. So that that comes into account here in a second, but when you have to feel the team you and you put out for tryouts on a base, you’re going to get all ranks.

Well, if you’re 1 of the lowest 3 ranks in the military. That means you’re cutting people from those teams that are of higher rank than you and that you might need something from on the base. So that was a really awkward situation. Were you

[00:05:04] Mike Klinzing: posting a list or did you have to have

[00:05:06] Tim MacAllister: conversations? Oh, it was, it was both.

It was both. And I had to figure out if I wanted, you know, my food spit in or if I didn’t want any IT service or I wanted to piss off, you know, the guy that worked the gate that I went through every day. That was not ideal, not ideal way to start off my coaching career. Instead of pissed off parents, I had pissed off

[00:05:29] Mike Klinzing: colleagues.

I understand. So what’s the, what’s the level of play like and who are you guys playing

[00:05:39] Tim MacAllister: against? Yeah, that’s a good question because for the first four weeks, we didn’t know either. You know, we were practicing over there and I got kind of lucky. I had a backup point guard from Purdue who blew out his knee and joined the Air Force.

I had a walk on from Mississippi State I had a former JUCO big that was there as a contractor. And then I had a Division III WIAC shooter who was all, all Wisconsin. I think it’s and I apologize if it’s WIAC or if it’s WIAC, I, I don’t know. But he was an all conference performer Division III.

So I had a decent level of play on my team, but I had no idea what we were going to play against. And then one day they just came to me on a Monday and said, Hey hey Senior Airman McAllister you need to get a suit if you don’t have one. And I was like, Oh, yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense because I packed my suit on a deployment.

So we had to go get me a suit. I said, I apologize, sir, but can you tell me why I need a suit? They said, well, on Friday, you’re going to, you’re going to play the collegiate all stars of Kyrgyzstan in front of the U. S. ambassador. The prime minister of sport and in the colonel of this base, I said, yes, sir.

And then I went back and I said, I have no idea what I got myself into. This is not what I thought I was signing up for. That was the days before pullovers and khakis, right? Yes. Yes. And I, I don’t, I still don’t think those would have fly. Probably

[00:07:05] Mike Klinzing: not. That’s funny. So what was that first game like?

[00:07:10] Tim MacAllister: It was bizarre.

It was bizarre to be honest with you. There was like a parade beforehand. There was like dancing and there was, they gave me, there was this big ceremony. And it was a big friendship game, a win the hearts and minds type of deal. And there were about 2, 000 Kyrgy people there. On hand to watch it and I didn’t know FIBA rules.

It was just a bizarre, bizarre setting. The officials would hold the basketball after the clergy team scored which is not FIBA rules. It’s just cheating. But, you know, it was a really weird setting, but it was awesome because, you know, about halfway through the first quarter, maybe the second quarter.

I, I gathered the guys up and I said, Hey, listen, basically, I don’t know what I’m doing. I don’t know what they’re doing either, but let’s go kick their ass because I’m tired of this. And the guys, the guys responded. It wasn’t a win one for the Gipper speech by any stretch of the imagination. But when those guys responded and went on a 12 0 run or something and we capped it with a dunk and went up, by 8 or 10 at halftime, I knew I’d caught the bug at that point.

I knew that I was, this is what I wanted to do. And and I was pretty fired up going forward. What’d you love about it? What was it

[00:08:26] Mike Klinzing: that

[00:08:26] Tim MacAllister: grabbed you? It was being able to help affect people to go to a higher level because we weren’t playing very well and those guys there was more there. And just the ability to positively impact someone to make them perform better or be better.

And I think to an extent that’s what we’re trying to do with all of these young men now in college basketball is we’re trying to get them to be better than what they are in the moment. And I think it grabbed me in that moment and I think it’s the reason why I’m still doing this.

[00:08:59] Mike Klinzing: So how did that then shift what you thought you wanted to do for your career?

Because obviously. You join the Air Force, which is no small step towards what you wanted to do. And now all of a sudden, coaching grabs you and you have to figure out, okay, what are the steps? If that’s what I want to do, how do I do that? So what was, what was the plan? How’d you go ahead and change the process of what you thought you were going

[00:09:24] Tim MacAllister: to be doing?

Yeah, I, I completely just. Pivoted I changed my major not to anything coaching related, just to Spanish because I thought errantly in my mind, at least that I could go recruit Spanish speaking players at some point. All right I thought it was 1 thing that could help me. And then I immediately tried to figure out how, when I got back, I could get involved how I could, how I could get into coaching and what the best way was to get into coaching. I had seen how my father had been a better or a worse coach, depending on how good his players were. So I knew I didn’t want to do high school at that point, because it’s a lot harder to choose your players and it’s a lot more illegal from what I understand.

Yeah, for most places. So I, I got hooked up with some really, really good people and, and I think it really kind of. It really when I think about the biggest key for my career is relationships and that’s when those relationships really started. I got hooked up with working for Billy Kennedy, who was the head coach of Murray State at the time.

And his assistants were Steve Prohm, who’s currently the head coach at Murray State. Amir Abdur Rahim, who’s currently the assistant, or the, excuse me, the head coach at South Florida. And the other assistant at the time was Isaac Chu. And Chu is now an assistant at New Mexico. And then the following year, the assistants, Steve Prohm was the head coach.

Matt McMahon, who’s the head coach at LSU now, was an assistant. James Kane, who’s an assistant at Dayton, was an assistant. And then William Small, who’s an assistant at South Florida. And I tell people all the time, the relationships and the situations that you put yourself in and the people that you connect yourself with.

Is always going to be one of the biggest parts of this game, whether it’s in recruiting, whether it’s in coaching and trying to move up the ladder. Those relationships are so, so important. And I got hooked up with the right people and very much by chance and, and, and by God’s grace. I got put into a really, really good situation.

[00:11:33] Mike Klinzing: How’d that happen? How, I mean, how do you get that opportunity?

[00:11:36] Tim MacAllister: I told them I would do anything they wanted me to do and I’d do it for free. There you go. So I, and I had to finish my degree at Murray state. And so I wanted to go ahead and do that. So I became a student assistant for them and they, they allowed me to do a lot more than I probably should have been allowed to do, which I’m very grateful for doing individual workouts, learning video learning pieces of analytics and just how this business works.

All those guys I consider mentors to this day that still help me on a day to day or week to week, you know, month to month basis. So I’m very grateful for that because they taught me a lot about what this business is and what it should be.

[00:12:17] Mike Klinzing: So after you get done there at Murray state and you graduate, then you’re to Emory, then you go to Emory.

Is that right?

[00:12:24] Tim MacAllister: Yes.

[00:12:25] Mike Klinzing: So how does that, how does that happen? I mean, we’ve had, we’ve had Zim on twice. Great guy. I just think. The world of him as a coach and as a person, and I’ve met him a couple of different times in person actually saw every play up here in Cleveland a couple of years ago when they played against Case Western Reserve and met Jason down at the Billis camp, I think in 2019, I think I was down there where we hooked up in person.

So obviously a great guys. How does that come to pass? How does that come to be?

[00:12:51] Tim MacAllister: Yeah, and I’d echo exactly what you just said. I think he’s 1 of the best coaches in the country that a lot of people don’t know about. He he should have already and I don’t want to get on the stump here, but he should have already been a division one head coach.

If he if he wanted to be. The fact that nobody scooped him up is crazy. But now that I’m off my stump, I again, kind of going back to those relationships. I had the final 4. I tried to meet as many people as I possibly could. And I met a guy who is who was a student assistant at the time of Georgia.

I believe VCU 1 of the 2. And he said, I’m looking for jobs kind of as the season ends. And coach Chrome is trying to help me. Coach Kennedy is trying to help me with different ones and I’m interviewing for grad assistant spots and he, he texts me and says, Hey, I don’t know if you’d be interested. This is just a guy I met at the final four that I kept in touch with.

And he says, I don’t know if you’d be interested, but, you know, Emory University has an opening for an assistant coach now. I don’t think it’s going to pay a whole lot because it’s the 2nd assistant in division 3 school, but you might want to check it out because he’s a really good ball coach. And from there.

You know, got on the phone with Coach Zimmerman and the piece that always sticks with me is two parts of this. One is he asked me to come work camp, which I didn’t see as a slight and a lot of young guys some for some reason think that’s a slight. But I came and I worked his camp and the first thing that that I thought was really, really a turning point for me was I was working camp and I’m reffing a game.

While I’m coaching a team in the division that I’m running, and his son is in the camp, Coach Zimmerman’s son, and his son at that point, and I don’t mean to call Trevor out, he’s a pitcher now, a center, but Trevor could only go right, and I mean only go right, and one of the kids on the other team figured out that Trevor could only go right, and so he sat on his right hand.

And he picked him like two times in a row and he went and shot layups. And so Trevor got out of the net after the second time and he turned and he whirled that ball at that kid’s head. And I had a decision to make right there and then, and I was thinking to myself, I’m either going to get hired right now, or I’m about to not have any chance at this job.

And I, I threw him out and I sent him to his mom who was working at the snack bar and running the snack bar. And I thought this could be over for me right here, right now. Thankfully it wasn’t over at that point. And so that would be the first point that really sticks out to me. The second thing is Steve Prohm got on the phone with Jason Zimmerman.

Three days before Coach Prohm’s wedding, and he would not get off the phone with him until he agreed to hire me which I still appreciate very much to this day. And then I, you know, and then I got there and I had to figure a lot of things out, to figure a lot of things out. Coach Zimmerman taught me how to be an assistant coach.

He taught me how to, you know, how to, how to really dig into a scout, how to, you know, do player development, how to run a portion of practice. And he didn’t treat me, you know, he didn’t treat me as though I didn’t know anything, but he treated me like I needed to be taught and again, very appreciative of that because it really helped my growth.

He encouraged me to recruit, he encouraged me to be on the floor, he encouraged me to be in all facets. The only thing I will say is that the fact that he had me monitoring any of those, those guys academically was a joke. You weren’t serving as a tutor, you weren’t very much value as a tutor. Oh, I saw a couple of these guys papers at one point or another and I just said, I have no idea what that says, guys.

I just hope it’s good. I hope you get a great grade. Good luck to you. So that’s the same

[00:16:42] Mike Klinzing: thing I think of as a parent to, you know, you go through and I got, my kids are in high school. And I mean, I took whatever calculus in high school and college, but it’s been whatever 35 years since I took it. And so you look at it and you’re like, yeah, I’m not going to be able to, I’m not going to be able to help you much with that.

You’re going to, you’re pretty much on your own. Good luck. I’d have to go back and spend hours and hours relearning it to even remotely. Try to try to teach any of it to you. So good luck. And I can only imagine that the students at Emory for sure, you were in that, you were in that same boat. I would guess, I would guess 99.

9% of our population would

[00:17:17] Tim MacAllister: have been right there with you. No doubt about it. No doubt about it. All right.

[00:17:21] Mike Klinzing: So after that experience with Zim and being an Emory and obviously getting an opportunity to have your hands in all different. Parts of the program, which I think it’s interesting when you talk to different guys who have kind of gone through different routes.

1 of the things that I hear universally with people who start out at the division 3 level, similar to what you did is just 1 of the things that they feel most grateful for is that they did. Sort of dip their toe in the water of almost every aspect of the program, as opposed to, let’s say, you start at the division one level and you’re an ops and that’s your first experience.

You kind of are pigeonholed and you’re only sort of doing those jobs and you don’t necessarily get to see or feel or touch all those other parts. So I’m guessing for you that you really appreciated the opportunity to just have all those things. In your background now that you’ve had that experience, and then that leads you to your next opportunity.

[00:18:17] Tim MacAllister: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. No, I, and obviously it, it culminated really well with an Elite 8 appearance and beating the number one team in the country at their place in Street 16. But I have very, very fond memories of that place because of those opportunities to do everything. And when I got to be a video guy at Creighton and when I got to do chief of staffing at Texas Tech, it wasn’t as though I had no frame of reference.

I could, I could lean back on experiences that I had at Emory. To have a more well rounded kind of I guess outlook on things. So a hundred percent.

[00:18:52] Mike Klinzing: All right. So talk about that opportunity to create and how that comes to you.

[00:18:56] Tim MacAllister: Yeah. So it kind of a, kind of a weird interlude in it. That’s really not in my resume is my wife or my, my fiance at the time.

I got engaged while I was in Atlanta at Emory and she was an assistant rifle coach at Kentucky. So she is talking with one of the assistant video guys, who’s now the head women’s coach at Pikeville, Cliff Williams, and he tells her, Hey, you know, we’re gonna have an opening. I don’t know if you’re, you know, your fiance would be interested or not.

So I went up and I interviewed actually got offered the job and later got rescinded kind of a weird situation, but I was in Lexington for a couple of months. And my wife, we’re soon to be wife gets offered the Nebraska rifle job as the head coach. And so I’m, she’s looking at me and she’s like, well, you’re, you know, you’re in the process of getting on here.

And I said, Hey, you got a chance to be a head coach in the big 10 at 23. Let’s go, let’s roll. So I got there and I was, you know, I had talked with. Coach Wellman at Nebraska Wesleyan, I talked to Concordia on the women’s side and I was kind of in the process of picking what it was that I wanted to do to try and stay in the game when coach from calls again.

And he says, Hey, I don’t know what you’re looking to do, but you might want to wait. I think a spot may open up at Creighton and so I had to make a decision on whether or not I was going to take a 35, 000 job or I was going to wait for a potential job that wasn’t going to pay anything. And to be honest with you, if I didn’t have a relationship with Coach Proem where he had really tried to take care of me before, I probably would have taken the 35, 000.

But I trusted him because of the experiences that we had had and the experience that he had with helping me get on at Emory. And he, he got me hooked up with Steve Lutz at Creighton which obviously will pay dividends later for me here at Western Kentucky. But I got a very interesting call from Coach Lutz basically just said, Hey Coach Prohm says you’re really good.

Just don’t screw this up. Okay, I was And he said he wants to know if you can do analytics. Coach, Coach McGurk wants to know if you can do analytics. And I had a very small Microsoft Excel spreadsheet that I just, I tried to do everything in my power to make it look better than it really was. And I went in there and I interviewed and He said, Hey, this is a volunteer spot, but it’s a real position on our staff.

It helps with analytics and video. And Drew Adams, who is at University of Chicago, and then went to I believe he went to American as the DOBO was in that spot prior, so, Hey, we’ve got a track record of success, you can, you can step into this role. So I took the role, was very excited. I was there for a year as the volunteer and then three years as a paid video coordinator.

And again, I don’t mean to keep harping and killing a dead horse, but the relationships are so important. You know, that staff was Greg McDermott was the head coach, obviously still the head coach at Creighton. Steve Lutz was an assistant there. He’s the head coach of Western Kentucky, my current boss.

This is just the first staff. Darian DeVries was an assistant there and he’s the head coach of Drake now. And Patrick Sellers was an assistant that first year. He’s the head coach of Central Connecticut State. So again, the experience that I’ve had is, has largely been based around having really, really good coaches mentor me and tell me that I’m not doing something right.

And then Steve Arfeld, who who’s there still was the head coach at Evansville in Hampton. And so just the high level of basketball minds that are sitting there and are basically every day I’m getting to learn from was an elite level experience. I call it getting my master’s in basketball because that place is just such a high level X’s and O’s think tank almost that you better be on your game and you better know what you’re talking about.

So when you’re in that

[00:23:08] Mike Klinzing: job, how much time are you spending by yourself going through film versus sitting with. A member or multiple

[00:23:18] Tim MacAllister: members of the staff? That’s a good question. I would, I would break down for each opponent that we played. I would break down the last 500 offensive possessions not including baseline and sideline out of bounds.

And they would then all be categorized into families and then into individual sets. So that generally at the beginning, that took me a really long time. Once I had been in the big East and once I had seen a lot of these teams multiple times and my pattern recognition just got a lot better they got a lot easier and then I spent more of my time.

Cause then we would draw every single set that we saw. But then I would spend more time actually trying to figure out with the assistants, we would sit with the assistant that had the scout, and then we would sit as a team and watch a long edit, and then I would pare it down again and watch a shorter edit, even though it’d probably still be 30 or 40 clips.

So it was I don’t, I wouldn’t say that I spent an inordinate amount of time by myself, but it got less and less as I got better at that job. Through the four years that I was there,

[00:24:30] Mike Klinzing: what aspect of whether it was offense or defense, do you feel like you became more confident? About as you go through, because obviously, if you’re watching that much film, you’re seeing just about everything that teams are going to be throwing out there.

And you’re learning as you go. And as you said, you’re starting to recognize patterns and actions and things that you can pick out way more easily as you go through it. But when you think about. All that time you spend in the video room, what are some things that you left there feeling confident of? Like, Hey, I have a much better understanding of this or that than kind of when you went in.

And I’m sure there’s a lot of things, but maybe you can pick out 1 or 2 highlights.

[00:25:08] Tim MacAllister: Yeah, I think and this partially goes to. What I think Coach McDermott is really, really good at. One of the things he’s really, really good at. But the ability to exploit any defensive coverage on and off the basketball. So as you’re watching it, like you, like, like we’re talking about the, the patterns emerge.

But why would you use each individual pattern? And when are they popping up is so much more important. Because I do think that the biggest thing I learned was And there were some elite level coaches in the Big East. So it was fun to watch the adjustments. But the counters to the counters of why you would do something.

And Coach McDermott could just do that in his mind and then call out a set. And sometimes our players wouldn’t even know why we were calling a set, right? But it would work because he recognized, okay, their hard hedge is getting too far extended. We’re going to go thumb side, we’re going to hit the quick pass off of that, you know, one bounce and advance the basketball.

And then we’re looking at these two options, whether it’s the skip or the roll. And I think that that ability to quickly recognize patterns within games. And adjustments within games and then counter that to be able to get you a basket or two or three in the second half of games, I think is a big separator.

And then I think that I recognized with all of that, the. That the two most paramount things and I know this is talked about and it’s a very obvious thing, but it emerges even more when you watch film that the pace at which you run things and the space with which you have in your, in your offense are paramount.

Like, we would, sometimes we would screw things up, but we’d be going so fast that it would, you know, it would, we would have success. Or we would, you know, a marginal offensive player would catch the ball, but there was so much, such good spacing that he would be able to get to the ramp. And I think those things are very, very obvious once you watch more and more and more.

Because those things are just, they’re staples. And I don’t think that’s ever going to change. Is that those things are so important. Yeah, it’s interesting

[00:27:29] Mike Klinzing: when you start to really look at and break down and watching that much film that you start to see. Okay, these are things that work and you start to recognize.

what it works against and all those pieces. Did you miss being able to do some of that, then see it go from the video room and see it go from an idea to being able to actually teach it on the floor because you’re not coaching players out on the court? How much did you miss that part

[00:28:00] Tim MacAllister: of it? Yeah. And I think it was, I think it’s one of the biggest reasons why I wanted to move.

Like move up in the profession is because I wanted to be able to implement those ideas. And I wanted to be able to teach them and find the best ways to teach them. Because I think like I said at the beginning, I think that’s one of the most rewarding parts of this job is to see, you know, people elevate their performance.

And so that was certainly a big reason why. You know, after four years, I really wanted to continue to grow and get closer to getting on the floor. And

[00:28:37] Mike Klinzing: that leads you to Texas tech. So tell us about the transition from Creighton to Texas tech.

[00:28:43] Tim MacAllister: Yeah. It was, it was kind of a whirlwind. Again, the relationship piece is so paramount.

Steve Lutz had went to Purdue my last year at Creighton. And I was, I was helping run camp at Creighton and it was in July. And I kind of thought, Hey, the cycle is pretty much over for me. You know, I’m going to be at Creighton another year and I’m helping run camp and I get a call from Coach Lutz and he says, Hey, you know, would you want, would you want to, you know, be the chief of staff at Texas Tech?

Well, they just came off in our lead eight. Of course, I would, I would want to talk to him. Like, I don’t know what the job entails, but yeah, I’d really like to take a look at that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And, and 10 minutes later, I get a call from Steve Prohm that says, Hey, are you involved at Texas Tech? And I said, I think as of 10 minutes ago, I might be, if you’re calling me.

And so it went really, really fast and then it went really slow because Coach Beard had ACL surgery. And so it was kind of, kind of a wacky deal. I, I didn’t know whether or not I was getting the job. I didn’t, I wasn’t sure. And a lot of people, a lot of people could probably tell you this, but coach beard works deep into the night.

And so I. I think partially because it’s when he’s available and partially because he wanted to test me. But we probably talked six times at one, between one and two in the morning. He’s on, he’s on, he’s on my schedule. Yeah. We can do

[00:30:15] Mike Klinzing: a podcast at 1. AM. If you want to coach, I’m

[00:30:19] Tim MacAllister: available. I think that would be the best time to get him as you can get him.

There we go. But So I take the job in, in August and it’s kind of a whirlwind getting down there and everything that was kind of, you know, on my plate was, was just a little bit of everything and figuring out exactly what it was that I was going to be doing on a day to day basis. Took a little bit of time, but it was a.

A very different way of doing things and I’m grateful that I did it because I’ve seen such different ways of winning because obviously, you know, at Creighton, those guys are winning at Texas Tech with Beard and then at Texas and now at Ole Miss, I have no doubt they’re going to have success, just a very different way of doing things.

But having success and then Murray State and Emory, all those places have had success, just doing it a little bit differently. I think, you know, a lot of people ask, you know, the obvious questions about, you know, what is Coach Beard like and, you know, why is the program really good and what I would tell you is that from day one.

Coach Beard’s messaging to the players never wavered. He had a consistent message for the players every single day. And it was incredible to watch him motivate each guy differently, but treating them equally. And it’s still one of the most impressive things I’ve ever seen. Just his ability to get guys to do what’s best for the team and making them understand that it’s also what’s best for them.

And obviously the success was again, incredible that year go on a, you know, nine game win streak to win the big 12 go on a magical run to get to the national championship game and then fall short against Virginia. But it was just a, such a, a different way of doing things. Like I said what’s the

[00:32:12] Mike Klinzing: main differences?

[00:32:14] Tim MacAllister: You know, I think, I think the biggest thing for Texas Tech was, was the individual player aspect of everything that we did that, that, that’s everything from video, like your video, every single day, those guys would have individual clips offensively and defensively to watch. It didn’t matter if it was a workout, if it was practice, or if it was, you know, the game to go to the, to go to the sweet 16.

Every single day, you have individual offensive and defensive clips. In the weight room, John Riley, who I think is one of the best strength coaches in the country, individualizes each guy’s stuff. And they may come in one by one. He may have 13, 14 different sessions every day. But everything was individualized.

What those guys wanted to eat was individual to them, whether or not they needed to be a weight gainer, or they needed to lean up. All those things were very much to, to a man and there were so many people that were all working to make sure that each player had success when we got together as a team, and that included player development workouts, excuse me.

Those guys each had their own plans and the way that they did, the way that we went about actually implementing that with those guys I think was elite. It was just very different. A lot of the stuff at Creighton was very team oriented. Here’s what we’re going to do as a team today. We’re going to watch film as a team today.

And it’s not that that didn’t occur at Texas Tech. It’s just that it was in a different light and everything all day centered around those guys getting better. And so I and just kind of the way of going about it I wouldn’t say that we tricked people at Texas Tech offensively. I think that there was a, there was an element of this is what we do.

And we didn’t make a whole bunch of adjustments all the time. That’s not saying that we didn’t and Coach Brewer is a high level X’s and O’s coach as well. But I think there’s an element of. This is what we do really well. I’d like to see you stop it. Or, this is what we do defensively. And, let’s see if you can go through us consistently and win games.

And it was just a different mindset but it was, it was a lot of fun to watch and it was a lot of fun to be a part of and there was a camaraderie amongst, you know, both staffs that I think is elite that just made it a lot of fun as well.

[00:34:43] Mike Klinzing: How do you take that individual focus where if I’m a player.

And I know that everybody is bought into my success as an individual, then clearly if you make your individual players better, your team is going to be better. But ultimately, you still have to bring those guys back together to. Sacrifice some things in order to make your team be successful. So how did Coach Beard go about taking that transition from, Hey, we’re pouring everything we can, all our resources into making you the best individual player that you can be, and now we want you, that individual player to plug into this bigger system of our team to help us have team success.

So how did that part of it work? And it may not be, again, a simple answer, but just kind of give us an idea of how you went from that individual focus. To the team focus?

[00:35:38] Tim MacAllister: Yeah, I think a, a couple things, but the, the biggest one and the most important one that he always emphasized to all of us was the relationship piece.

We, he wanted us to be basically his, the closest team in the country. So he would have individual, you know, relationships with each guy, but also we would have our relationship with those guys as well. Hey, who have you, who have you taken out to lunch this week? Who have you been to breakfast with?

What’s going on in their life at home? So that that way, when we got them to the, to the practice floor, those guys, number one, knew that we cared about them at a really, really high level through our actions with all of the individual stuff to make themselves better, but also the off the court stuff.

And making sure that those guys knew that we really cared about him so that when we got to the court and coach said, Hey, I need you to make sure that you like, if you catch that, if you catch that ball in the corner and you’re open, I have to have you shoot it like we have to have you shoot it like he and I remember specific examples of him calling guys out to play a role.

That we needed them to play, but he was really like, like Monte Williams says, he was really calling them up and he would do it in such a way that I think is elite and it’s hard to replicate, but he would stop practice and he would say, Matt Mooney, we have to have you get a deflection there. We have to have you get a deflection for our team to be really good.

You have to get a deflection here on this pass. Because you have rotated to the right spot and you’ve done all these right things. And now we need you to make that finishing play right there. So I want you to do it three times. You’re going to rotate, tip it out of bounds, rotate, tip it out of bounds, rotate, tip it out of bounds.

And the whole team would be right there and they’d be clapping. The whole program would be right there. And everyone would understand that that was one thing that we needed out of that guy. And he did it in a way that both built them up, but made them understand what we needed to do to win. And I thought that was elite.

Yeah, that’s awesome. I mean,

[00:37:49] Mike Klinzing: again, what you want to do, right, is make sure that… Your players, a, understand what you want from them, which is a big part of it. B, understand that what you want from them, how that helps to impact team success. And then if you can get everybody buying into saying, Hey, this is your role.

This is what we need you to do. Coaching staff players, which just sounds like that’s exactly what was going on. That to me, sure. Sounds like a winning formula without question.

[00:38:16] Tim MacAllister: No doubt. All right. Chief of staff. What are you doing day to day? I get that question more than you would think. And it’s fun story for you.

I was, they, they sent me my job description or like the press release or something. When I first took the job and said, Hey, could you look all of this over and make sure that it looks good? And they gave a copy to coach beard as well. And so I’m just basically fact checking to make sure that they didn’t spell my name wrong.

Or, you know, like they didn’t put, I worked at a, you know, Southeast Louisiana at any point. Okay. Yeah, it looks fine. But it had like some job description stuff in it. And it was maybe a paragraph long and I was like, Oh, that must be what I’m doing. And coach gave his version back to the SID, to Wes. And it just had a big X right there.

And all it said was one line. It said, we’ll be involved in all aspects of the program. And I did not know at the time how true that would be. But I found out pretty quickly, pretty quickly. Sorry, that always makes me laugh every single time. But I would do I think coach figured out pretty quickly that.

He had hired me to do some things that I was probably not as good at. And some, he had not hired me to do some things that I was probably better at. So in the morning I would do a lot of meetings. I would do a lot of organization things. I was very fortunate to have some people like Cooper Anderson, Gino Cecilio Taylor Sinclair, Liz Cope, that all very much were much better at the operations side of things.

And I’m more so oversaw it and made sure that we were ready for an upcoming road trip or you know, I would meet with. Social media and they tell they tell me the calendar and I’d say, Hey, looks great. I don’t know what tick tock is, but that sounds good. Whatever you want to do or whatever it was, I don’t even think existed at the time.

But and I would do a lot of that in the morning and then normally coach would come in around noon and you’d say, what are we doing defensively today? And I would say, I have no idea. And that was the wrong answer. And then I would, I would turn my focus more so to the defensive side. Coach split it up much, very similar to a football staff where we had offensive and defensive staffs.

So Mark Adams headed up the defensive side. I think a lot of people very well, it’s very well known. I worked with coach Adams along with a couple of graduate assistants. And then coach Berg did a lot of the scouts, almost all the scouts and then coach, coach Beard, and then. Max and Donald after him worked on the offensive side.

So right around noon or one o’clock, I would I would switch my entire focus to defense and scouting and making sure that we were ready to go and then try and meet with coach Adams and go through our game plan and exactly what we wanted to get done for, for that upcoming game. So that was that was kind of my role in a nutshell.

And then it just entailed a whole bunch of different stuff outside of that, that I would, I would just call other duties as assigned.

[00:41:31] Mike Klinzing: So as you’re going through all this, and you’ve obviously had some opportunity, as you’ve already talked about, to work with some just unbelievable coaches and guys that were willing to pour into you and, and be a support network for you.

How are you kind of cataloging? What you’re learning along the way. Are you a old school three ring binder guy, Google drive? Like, how are you keeping track of and thinking about the things that you’re learning along the way? What’s your process?

[00:42:02] Tim MacAllister: Yeah, I I’ll be honest with you early on. I didn’t do a very good job of that, especially at Murray and Emory.

And then at probably halfway through at Creighton, I started figuring out, all right, I should probably keep a lot of this. I should probably figure out a way to make sure that I. I don’t forget this stuff. So I have about four hard drives and if they ever die, I’m in serious trouble. But I keep a lot of video edits.

I keep a lot of PDFs and different documents and, you know, fast draw or just play drawings, things like that on those documents. And then I keep a lot of notes. And I, I try to very, I’m much more meticulous now about making sure, you know, I put. All right, this is triangle and two offense. If I see a triangle and two again, I’m going to make sure that it’s in this folder so that I can reference back to it.

Or, you know, sets against, you know, sets with a high level, sets with a big point card. So that we can take advantage of smaller guards. Or sets with a shooting big, things like that. Just to really try and remember. And to be able to reference whenever it is that I might need them from a cultural standpoint.

Coach Brian Berg that I work for in Georgia Southern is, is probably the most organized and elite level person as far as making plans. And we put together some documents, especially when we were leaving Texas tech about things that need to be addressed in a program. You know, whether it’s the 1st year, the 2nd year building on things.

And I think that I’ll, I’ll reference a lot of that stuff for a long time, because it was really, really good. So

[00:43:38] Mike Klinzing: what are some things that as you move over to Georgia Southern, what are some things that you guys thought were important?

[00:43:45] Tim MacAllister: Yeah, I think we obviously we, we were really big on recruiting. And what exactly is your philosophy going to be?

Going into your particular institution, because I think a lot of people just think it’s well, you just recruit the best players you can get, you know, whatever. But I think we all kind of know that’s not true, depending on where you’re at. Because if you’re at Duke, yeah, you take the best high school players you want.

And if you’re at, you know, Georgia Southern, you know, okay, how do I get the best mix of transfers and different things? And, and I think what really turned it on its head for us is one, obviously COVID hits. And we’re not able to actually get out and physically be out during the first spring. We have four players and we, we have no way of actually getting out and talking to people getting face to face.

And, and then obviously the transfer portal and NIL coming in, well, now everybody’s taking transfers. So you don’t get, you know, you go in thinking you’re going to take some, a lot of Georgia bounce back guys. They want to come home and now that philosophy probably has to shift a little bit because of the nature of the beast because, you know, those kids are going to wherever because everybody wants to take transfers now.

So your philosophy has to shift a little bit. So I think that was obviously a big one. I think that though, it’s a lot of the stuff you don’t think about, like what’s going to be an issue. That you’re not really aware of. Is it going to be compliance? Is it going to be you know, we got to Georgia Southern not to call them out, but they had 25, 000 for a gear budget, which may be a lot for some programs for a division one program, not so much.

You know, just, just little things that you don’t think of and battles that you don’t know you’re going to have to fight, what’s your academic situation? Can you get everybody in? Are you are you You know, a school that could take an 80% guy as far as progress towards degree guy, who’s been in college for 3, you know, 3, 4 years.

So all those things are factors that we, we tried to really write down and really just understand and have a sense of going in and ask the right questions. And I think that’s something that I’ll try and carry on through each job as I figure out more and more what I should be asking and what’s important.

Because some of those things aren’t important and it doesn’t matter, but some of those things are going to be, you know, the thorn in your side, or they’re going to be a huge help to you going forward getting to know

[00:46:17] Mike Klinzing: your institution. Right? It’s a big part of it. Exactly. Yeah. Because if you don’t know exactly what you’re getting into, which again, clearly, there are some things that you can’t know.

When you’re going into a new place as a completely new staff, there are just things that no matter how much you prepare, you’re just not going to see coming. And then you got to adjust on the fly. But I think your process, like you’re talking about, which is thinking that through and talking it through and really trying to consider what are some things that we have to look at before we get there.

Just the thought exercise of going through that. I’m sure. Would be and is tremendously valuable as you go into a new job. So for you at Georgia, Georgia Southern, you’re, you’re finally getting an opportunity to, to get out on the court and coach. What did that feel like and how much did you enjoy that part of it?

[00:47:08] Tim MacAllister: Oh, it was, it was everything that I wanted, you know, everything that I wanted and I got it. I was very thankful because, you know, Coach Byrd didn’t put any reins on me. He didn’t, you know, say, hey, you haven’t been on the floor in a long time, you know, let’s ease back into this, let’s just have you do this or that.

He, you know, really gave me a lot of responsibility and and in year three, allowing me to run the defense and have my own practice plans and execute the game plans and do all those things was, was where I probably found the most joy. And coaching, because like we talked about being able to really affect the performance, implement what I’m seeing on film and really just kind of put it together.

Was really, it was, it was awesome. It was awesome. I don’t know any other way to put it. It’s I love being out on the floor with those dudes and, and kind of being in the, in their ear and, and helping them get better and them seeing themselves get better, both on film and through their performance and stats and our wins.

And it was awesome. It was awesome.

[00:48:12] Mike Klinzing: Working with a head coach and you’ve obviously worked with a number of them and seen the way that they handle different things. But one of the things that I think that whenever I talk to an assistant coach or somebody who’s been in both roles, I think one of the things that’s most important is that head coach providing leadership to the staff in terms of the expectations of what that assistant coach needs to do.

And then to go beyond that. Empowering that assistant coach to have some things that they’re in charge of, that the head coach is able to delegate to those assistant coaches so that they can feel like they’re taking that over. And it sounds like that’s what happened with you, where you really get an opportunity to be able to grow under a head coach who gives you that responsibility.

That’s not always easy to do, right? Especially when you’re new in a place and anybody who’s a coach, we kind of have that control free type. Part of us where I want to have my hand and everything. And I think sometimes, especially for younger coaches, it’s sometimes difficult to be able to step back and do that delegating.

But it sounds like in all the places that you’ve been, that you’ve obviously been under some experience guys, but just the fact that You were able to be empowered by, Hey, here’s what we need you to do. And then we’re going to kind of let you do it and guide you along the way to help you improve and get better.

So I’m sure that that’s something that you’ve appreciated

[00:49:36] Tim MacAllister: at all your different stops. Without a doubt. And I, you said it much more eloquently than I ever could, but that that’s spot on. And I think it takes, like you said, it takes a lot for a head coach to really let pieces of that go and say. Do your job and execute it.

This is what, you know, I’ve hired you to do. But at the same time, we all know the ones that micromanage everything and want to hand in everything. And, and that’s their prerogative. I don’t, I wouldn’t take that away from anyone either because it’s their name on the front of the, you know, the front of the deal.

But it’s, it is, it’s, it’s big for the development of myself and everybody that I’ve worked around because of those people empowering us. What’s the most

[00:50:22] Mike Klinzing: important thing you’ve learned or you did learn in your couple of years at Georgia Southern?

[00:50:29] Tim MacAllister: That’s a good question. And I’ve thought through a decent amount of it. I really do. I think taking the right guys in year one and really making sure that you have the right base under you. And that’s not a slight to any of our guys. I think we had some really, really good people and some good pieces.

I think that your first class, because of how little time this profession, how impatient this profession has become, if you have setbacks in year one, that affects you in year two and year three. And it takes time, even in the transfer portal world, you, nobody, very few places replace 13 every single year.

I say very few, more common than it used to be. Let’s put it that way. Yeah. I was going to say, I, I, I didn’t say none because I do know a couple of people, including, you know, coach Brown, his first year at Murray, but you, you’ve got to make sure that you take the right guys and you’ve got to build your culture out the right way because you’re guys.

That are there previously. That’s the standard. And regardless of what you say your standards are, it’s whatever you allow. And those guys that have been there for the year, that first year are the ones that are going to tell the other guys and show the other guys what the standard is. Through their actions and what you allow them to both get away with and what you allow them to do.

So what does

[00:52:03] Mike Klinzing: that look like for you now at Western Kentucky being involved in the recruiting process and the kind of players that you’re looking for from let’s take it. Obviously, there’s a level of play skill talent that somebody has to be able to have to play division one basketball at Western Kentucky.

But clearly, as you said earlier, you’re not just looking for. A guy who has a skill set, there’s another piece of it that you want guys who are going to fit in and be part of what you’re trying to do. So for you as a new assistant coach, obviously, you have some familiarity with the staff, but and what they want, what they’re looking for, which is the learning process for you.

And then what are some of the things that you’re looking for in players from an intangible

[00:52:44] Tim MacAllister: standpoint? Yeah, I, I think you hit the nail on the head. They have to have a requisite amount of time. Yeah. But I think the biggest thing for assistance is figuring out what it is that your head coach wants.

And I think Coach Lutz, to his credit, has turned down some good players because he didn’t think that they would fit either being coached by him. Or just from a standpoint of what we’re trying to build from a culture standpoint, and again, that doesn’t mean I’m not saying anything was any different in any other places.

I just think that he’s been even more probably stringent on who we will and won’t take because of those facts. And I think that what it’s led to is a group that we have right now in, in, in the roster that. That he’s put together with the rest of the staff has been a really high quality person. Even if, you know, even if they, they’re not the five star guy, they have really been each one of these guys wants to win.

Each one of these guys has high character and I think they all want to work. And I think that’s worth its weight in gold. Because if you have guys that aren’t one of those things, doesn’t want to work or they don’t have great character or, you know, they don’t have the requisite level of talent or whatever, then you run into issues.

And I’m not saying these, these guys are going to be perfect, but I do think coaches has taken some non negotiables and put them on the table as far as. We’re not going to recruit dudes that I don’t want to coach, and I don’t want at my house on a day to day basis.

[00:54:31] Mike Klinzing: It’s obviously an inexact science, right, that if you could just wave that magic wand and figure all that out, everything would, everything would work out great.

So how do you. When you’re evaluating players in your mind, when you go out and watch a kid, whether it’s on film in person, when you’re shaking their hand, when you’re meeting their family,

[00:54:50] Tim MacAllister: what are some things, some signs that

[00:54:53] Mike Klinzing: you look for to tell you, Hey, this is the kind of kid that coach Lutz is going to want to have around.

And as you said, have them over to his house and all those things. How do you evaluate that? Because clearly the basketball skill. Is much more obvious to see, I mean, you still have to have an eye for what the talent level is and all those kinds of things in terms of being able to evaluate. But the intangible part of it is a little bit harder.

So for you personally, as you’re recruiting, you’re talking to a kid or you’re looking at a kid. What are some of the things that you think are telltale signs of the type of kid that you want to

[00:55:25] Tim MacAllister: recruit? Yeah, I don’t think that there is. One thing that I just look at, but there is a, there’s a, some of the parts that they can give you a pretty big picture.

And, and I’ll, I’ll say this. I think one of the biggest impediments of just recruiting guys from video is not getting to see how they react in a huddle when they’re getting coached how they react when their teammate misses them. Right? When their teammate goes in and takes maybe a questionable shot, or they should have kicked it.

How do they react to that? How do they, how do they talk to their teammates? When you’re, when you’re in home, how do they talk to their parents? How do they interact with their parents? I think that there are a lot of things that you can draw from that. And that’s not the end all be all, but I do think if, if those red flags go up of always having a, always having a response when they’re getting coached.

Well, he didn’t he didn’t do this in blaming or when when a teammate talks to him and they shrug them off or you know, they don’t they don’t want to get excited about teammates success and team success. I think all those things are red flags. Now there’s. There’s also a level of competitiveness that I think you can see that are really, you know, some of those green flags more so than red flags, where guys are picking other guys up or, you know, they’re recognizing situations.

Hey, we got to get a stop here and they’re encouraging teammates and they’re lifting those guys up, understanding the situation. And a lot of these things, again, you have to kind of see in person because they’re harder to see on film and then really digging into people’s backgrounds. That’s doing our homework as assistants is like.

If we’re recruiting these kids, and that’s part of what gets lost in the portal is you’re recruiting these kids for two weeks, are you going to find the people who are going to tell you the truth? Like, everybody on the first call is going to say, he’s a great kid, such and such, you know, I think he’d be a great player for your league, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

Who’s the person that’s going to tell you, yeah, he’s, he’s, he’s a jerk sometimes, or man, he really hates schoolwork, like he’s just not going to do it. Things like that. Now, let me ask you this

[00:57:50] Mike Klinzing: question. Let’s start with the positive side of this. Biggest positive in your mind to come out of the transfer portal and then NIL.

What are the positives of that

[00:58:01] Tim MacAllister: from your perspective? I think the ability for players to maybe write a mistake. I think, and part of this is on coaches, is like, we sell this grandiose version of everything. It’s honeymoon all the time. You know, all recruiting process long, everything’s awesome. Everything is the greatest thing ever.

You’re going to be the man, all these different things. And sometimes when kids get there and it’s not what, what they were told, I don’t blame them, like I know some of the things that colleagues have said to kids that are just simply not true. You’re telling them that they’re going to play 30 minutes a night.

They played

[00:58:50] Mike Klinzing: 12.

[00:58:52] Tim MacAllister: Okay. There’s a big difference between 30 and 12. So I get that. I, you know, I think NIL at least the way that it was intended to come about, and I’m not going to speak to how it’s actually being used is a very pure thing. I’ll give you a quick example. I was at Murray state with Ed Daniel and Ed Daniel had a giant Afro.

He was like six, six dunked everything, you know, made really big time highlight plays and was an unselfish player. And they made these t shirts with Mr. Ed, the horse with an Afro on it. And I, and it said, you know, Mr. Ed is my hero or something, something like that. And it was an awesome shirt. And I always thought like, man, it should get a couple of dollars.

Like he should get something out of that because that’s really cool. And people are excited and we’re on this big wind streak. Like he, he should be able to get a couple of dollars off that. So I think that in that form is, is a really good thing and putting a little bit more money in guys pockets is especially, you know, when most of these guys are not going to have.

Long, illustrious NBA careers. You know, we know the statistics on how many are actually going to make it. I don’t, I don’t blame a lot of these guys for, for taking, you know, forgetting what they’re getting and really trying to stretch that money. And for a four year deal, this is, this is. Why wouldn’t you, you know, so I, I think those things are, are not negatives.

I think those are positives to come out. Yeah, those are two things that I think

[01:00:33] Mike Klinzing: are the intent of them, I think is, is very player centric and very pro player. And I think you make a great point about the portal. I think one of the things that, you know, people always thought is right. It’s here, a coach can recruit a kid and then boom, they can leave and go.

Take a bit bigger, better job and get a big payday. And now kids are left with, okay, if I want to transfer. I got a City Year. So I think that trying to level the playing field is something that was the intent of the rule, and I think it’s probably done that on the n on the n i l side of it. I, I agree with you completely.

I think the opportunity for kids to be able to capitalize on whatever popularity they have, depending on the level of the school where they are and, and who wants to get involved with them, I, I think that’s nothing but positive. And yet at the same time, I’m sure there are challenges, so I’m not gonna use the word negatives, but just.

In your experience to this point, what are some of the, or what is 1 of the challenges you can either take the portal or both, but just something that. As a staff, you yourself have seen being a challenge and trying to implement it and get it to work the way it’s supposed to.

[01:01:44] Tim MacAllister: Yeah I think that the biggest challenge for the portal is that you, you have, you have a difficult time really building, building on success.

Because you’re constantly worried about. You know, who can leave at the end of the year and, you know, how many scholarships we actually have, how many of these guys are actually going to stay if they have success, are they going to leave if they don’t have success and they don’t play? Are they going to leave?

So there’s so much indecision surrounding that. That that’s certainly a frustrating or challenging aspect of it because you want to pour into these guys. And I, I think we still will because we feel like that’s the right thing to do. But I know programs, you know, in the country that aren’t, they’re like, man, I don’t like, am I going to give this dude everything that I got?

And then he leaves at the end of the year. That’s a very real thing that I’m hearing you know, on the recruiting trail and things like that. That’s discouraging. Because I do think you should pour into these guys. 100%.

[01:02:54] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, it’s hard. I mean, when you think about again, let’s take your level at Western Kentucky, right?

Kid comes in and how have you succeeded in the past at. A mid major school, you find kids who are under the radar, you develop them, they become four year players by the time they’re juniors or seniors. Those guys are the guys that help you to win. And I think now it’s, it’s more difficult, right? A kid comes in, has a really good freshman season.

Now schools that are maybe a little bit bigger or one tier above look at it and say, well, here’s a kid who’s already proven himself as a college basketball player. As a student, he’s in the portal. It’s just that, that to me, when I think it, cause I played at Kent state and I always kind of think of, so I’m always looking at it kind of from that mid major perspective of, you know, you get a kid who’s, you know, who’s really, who excels that would be a kid that in years past might’ve been a four year kid.

Now, all of a sudden there’s some schools that are maybe one level higher that are interested in them. And to me, like, as you said, when you don’t know at the end of the year, it’s like, you’re trying to, you’re trying to thread a needle of. Hey, we want the guy to be really good, but man, not that good. And we want to, we want a guy at the end of the bench, you know, we want to keep them happy enough that he’ll come back.

Cause those are guys that, you know, as freshmen and sophomores, you’re building them into eventually being number classmen and being a part of it. But if they’re, if they’re unhappy, then, you know, who knows, are they going to leave? And so I can only imagine the challenges of trying to figure all that out.

[01:04:18] Tim MacAllister: Yeah, it’s it’s certainly a new element that a lot of people didn’t sign up for in this business. That’s just making our all of our lives a little bit tough question. All right. What are you

[01:04:27] Mike Klinzing: most excited about about Western

[01:04:29] Tim MacAllister: Kentucky? I think I’m really excited to get back to a place that is. just basketball.

I mean, this place through and through is just hoops. The fans, I gave this example the other day. I was at the barber shop trying to get my hair cut and I’m trying to find the right barber and the guy starts talking to me and I said, yeah, I’m a new assistant basketball coach at Western. He said, well, let me tell you something.

I was like, okay, lay it on me. And he said, I don’t understand why we can’t shoot free throws. And all of a sudden he was into a 10 to 15 minute lecture with, with, mind you physical animations of how he felt like we should shoot free throws. And, and while that can be seen as obviously a negative, I think it just speaks to how much this community loves hoops and how invested they are in our program.

And, and this place has had so much success. I mean, a final four, seven sweet 16s, 43, I believe all Americans, 46 NBA draft picks to walk into a place like this and have an opportunity to coach here is just a blessing. And I think. Like I said, getting back to a place that just loves hoops is really exciting.

And that’s not a knock on anywhere else. I just think this place is special. All right.

[01:06:00] Mike Klinzing: So two part question to wrap things up part one, when you look ahead over the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest? Professional challenge and then part two, when you think about what you get to do every single day, and I’m going back to the beginning of our conversation, there you are on the air force base and all of a sudden, boom, you’re getting an opportunity.

To coach basketball and now you think about where you are today, what brings you the most joy about what you get to do every single day. So your biggest challenge and then your biggest

[01:06:33] Tim MacAllister: joy. Yeah, that’s that’s a great question. I think the biggest challenge for me and I haven’t, I haven’t expressed this a ton throughout our conversation here, but biggest challenge for me is that I want to balance being a really good father.

And I’ve got two young kids at five and two, and I see a profession that like we just talked about has become kind of nonstop, trying to figure out if you’ve got a roster, or do you not have a roster, or, you know, is the guy going to the portal or not going to the portal? Is he going to graduate? Oh my gosh, now he can leave at any point and then getting to the season and obviously you’re go, go, go during the season and trying to win games but balancing that with, you know, being a good father, being at home, being present.

Because I, I think there’s so much value in that. And I think that my kids need to see a, a, a really good role model. And I think that challenge is just growing because of the, the way our business is moving. Now from a joy standpoint, I, I can’t, I couldn’t imagine or have drawn up. And this is only a God thing, in my opinion, to where I’ve been able, where I’ve been able to go, where I’ve been able to coach and the people that I’ve been able to do it with and I’m, I truly am blessed and I know a lot of people use that, you know, a little bit liberally with, with saying blessed, but I really am just with the opportunities that I’ve been given.

And I think sometimes. When I look back, like I have no idea how some of this stuff came to be and it could only be like, it could only be God because I, I don’t know how those connections formed and things like that. So that, that’s awesome. And I cannot wait. I got, I still get up in the morning. I got up this morning, we had a 10 AM workout and I was just really excited to go and like help get these guys better.

And to be on the floor with them and you know, chop it up. And, you know, I like, I like coming and kind of hitting guys before practice. And, you know, I don’t know anywhere else in the, in the country and I’ll kind of close it on this, where you would go into work. At about 8 30 in the morning. And the first thing that you would do is to kind of jump up and, you know, you know how you kind of jump into people and just kind of get excited.

I do that like six times every morning when I walk into the gym. And I don’t think, I think that’d probably be frowned upon a JP Morgan.

[01:09:16] Mike Klinzing: Standard set a new culture. Maybe they could use a little of

[01:09:20] Tim MacAllister: that. They might, they might, but yeah, I, I really am. I I’m excited every time I get to step on the floor because I know, and I’ve, I’ve done some of the other things that I.

That you could do to make a living in this world. And so truly blessed and just really excited to continue to do that. That’s well said

[01:09:39] Mike Klinzing: Tim. I think when you talk about being a great dad and being there for your kids, there’s obviously nothing better than that. And then I think the second piece of it,

[01:09:49] Tim MacAllister: when you

[01:09:50] Mike Klinzing: get to do something where every morning you look forward to it and you’re looking forward to chest bumping and jumping up and slamming bodies with guys.

Man, there’s nothing better when that’s your attitude. When you get up out of the bed in the morning, then you’ve really hit on something and you know that you’re in the right place. Before we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to share how can people reach out, get in touch with you, whether you want to share social media website.

Email, whatever you feel comfortable with. And then after you do that, I’ll jump back in and wrap things

[01:10:18] Tim MacAllister: up. No anybody is, is welcome to reach out to me. The two probably primary ways that I communicate outside of my phone, outside of my, my cell number or email, and it’s just. Tim McAllister, you have to spell my name correctly.

It’s tim.macallister@wku.edu. So it’s just my first name, last name@wku.edu. And then on Twitter I’m at basketball Mac. So certainly anybody’s welcome to reach out. I’m happy to get back to you at any, as soon as I can. If I don’t get back to you soon, don’t, don’t be afraid to follow up.

If it starts with, I’ve got his five, nine power forward for you, I may not get back to you near as quickly. There you go. Completely

[01:11:09] Mike Klinzing: understood. All right, Tim. I cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to jump on and join us. Really appreciate it. And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.