MAURICE WILLIAMS – SALISBURY UNIVERSITY MEN’S BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 807

Website – https://suseagulls.com/sports/mens-basketball

Email – mlwilliams@salisbury.edu

Twitter – @CoachMoWill

Maurice “Mo” Williams is the Head Men’s Basketball Coach at Salisbury University in Maryland.  He was named the ninth head coach in Sea Gull history on April 17, 2019.

Williams became the head coach at Salisbury after one season as an assistant at Division I Longwood University, where he was spotlighted as a “Next Generation” coach by the National Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC).   Prior to his time at Longwood he served as an assistant at Salisbury and several Division III programs, including Johns Hopkins, Eastern, Stevenson and Frostburg State.

Williams was a three-year letter winner at Frostburg State. In 2011-12 he was named a team captain and earned First-Team All-Capital Athletic Conference (CAC) honors. That season Williams let the CAC in points per game (16.7), offensive rebounds (72) and free-throw percentage (.851). Prior to his time at Frostburg, Williams enrolled at Salisbury during his freshman year and competed on the track and field team.

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Be sure to have your notebook handy as you listen to this episode with Maurice Williams, head men’s basketball coach at Salisbury University.

What We Discuss with Maurice Williams

• Growing up in Columbus, Ohio and falling in love with the game via Michael Jordan
• Developing his competitiveness while battling his older brother
• “You can’t control what happens, but you can’t control how you respond to it.”
• “I’m just called to be a steward of this program while I’m here. If I’m the shepherd, these young men are the sheep I’m supposed to lead them. I’m supposed to guide them. I’m supposed to serve them.”
• Getting cut at Salisbury his freshman year in the same office he now sits as head coach
• “I mastered doing things that other people hated.”
• Learning how to get separation in your life
• “Life’s lived forward, but you only understand it when you look back.”
• “I never want our guys guessing what we’re going to do.”
• “You have to be the standard.”
• “Be the coach that you’ve always wanted to play for.”
• “There’s three levels to this. You got participating, you got competing, and then that last stage, which is the smallest part, this is the separator, is winning.”
• Why an open door policy as a head coach doesn’t work
• “I don’t hold our guys accountable. I lead them to accountability.”
• “I want our guys to love and embrace conflict.”
• Using the word “rooted” to work on the unseen
• “How do I know you’re getting sniped? Your body language, your energy, you’re not as coachable that day.”
• “Great questions lead to great answers.”
• Three coaching mentors that had an impact on him
• “As an assistant, all your decisions are right.”
• Watching film of himself coaching to observe, learn, and grow
• Why he doesn’t focus on learning new basketball or leadership things during the season
• “Character is who you are when no one’s watching.”
• “Getting a group of guys that you can lose with first.”

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THANKS, MAURICE WILLIAMS

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TRANSCRIPT FOR MAURICE WILLIAMS – SALISBURY UNIVERSITY MEN’S BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 807

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight. But I am pleased to be joined by Mo Williams, the head men’s basketball coach at Salisbury University in Maryland. Moe, welcome to the Hoops Pod.

[00:00:15] Maurice Williams: Thanks for having me, Mike. Excited to be on, man, and I’ve been a fan, so I look forward to having some good content tonight and having a good conversation with you.

[00:00:23] Mike Klinzing: Appreciate that. It’s always good to know that there are people out there listening to what we’re doing. So appreciate you for being a listener, and I’m definitely looking forward to diving into all the things that you’ve been able to do in your career. Let’s start by going back in time to when you were a kid.

Tell me a little bit about some of your first experiences with the game of basketball, what you remember from when you were younger.

[00:00:41] Maurice Williams: Man, love the throwback question. There’s a lot of ways I can go with this, but I’m going to go with the quick story and then get to your question. But man, I think my first fond memories was watching the game with my dad early nineties, which was a Jordan era.

So trying to stay up late to watch those games. Man, just trying to copy the fade away, having my tongue out, all those things. I loved it. I loved it. And quickly fell in love with it and it became something that connected me with my dad even more. And my brother. But I would say for, for me, man, going more deeper in your question I grew up in the Midwest, so very similar to where you are right in the Columbus area.

So I grew up in an area right outside of Columbus, Ohio called Reynoldsburg. So grew up playing there. You know, Ohio basketball, I won’t go too deep in it because you know about it, but Absolutely. It’s very good and, and there’s a lot of good. Feeder programs that kind of feed into the high school. So a lot of my favorite players growing up were, were the guys on the varsity team and, and Columbus, Ohio basketball at the time was really at a high peak I’m not sure if you heard of Brookhaven High School, but they, they had a guy named Andrew Lavender, Brandon Faust if you heard the name Esteban Weaver from Independence High School, Michael Redd.

There’s a lot of names I could throw out there, man, but love watching those guys, idolize those guys. And it, it, it was where, where I grew up, man, kind of similar to where you are, kind of felt like Friday night Lights. So town would really shut down and it loved football and loved basketball and my dream was really to play varsity basketball, hear that pet band.

Soon as you get on the court and there’s some really good teams and, and guys I played against in high school that were with some fun rivalries I would say everybody’s heard now of the school, Pickerington Central if you’re from Columbus, Ohio. So that’s where I ended up transferring to go to high school right after my freshman year.

Very unique story. I got cut in the 10th grade. We had a coach I won’t say his name, but we had a coach who was there for a long time and had retired after that year. So going into my junior year, we got a new coach and we had a very high heavy senior team that year, and he brought me in and said Mo you could definitely play varsity, but I think it’d be good for you to just get minutes and play and get experience.

So at that point I just wanted to play and I believed in my ability, and we’ll probably go deeper into this or maybe not, but ended up not being on the JV team very long, moving up, having a big game, and was able to progress getting on the varsity team and. From there, man, moving on to play college basketball, which I can go deeper into that, but I would say whenever anybody asked me about how it started it really was that, and, and I was never forced into it.

I loved it again. It was something that deeply connected me more with my father. Had a older brother as well, so the competition came from him kicking my butt and me getting tired of it. So I always tell him when, when I got older, stronger, bigger, better. He kind of birthed that level of competitiveness because I just hated losing him.

And it, I obviously went to a higher level as I Progressed on as a player and was blessed to keep going.

[00:04:03] Mike Klinzing: That older brother, younger dynamic older brother, younger brother, dynamic is always one That is interesting. I grew up, I only had a sister, but Okay. Obviously I had lots of friends that had multiple brothers and families and I was always amazed, especially the families that had only boys.

Mm-hmm. Just how competitive that was at, like, everything. I mean, from eating to basketball to whatever. It was just constantly one of those things that I was like, man, growing up in this family, like, you have to be on your toes like all the time, ready to compete. And I think being the younger brother, just as you described right, you’re always, you’re always chasing sort of that ghost of your older brother and trying to, trying to keep up with him and his friends and all that kind of stuff.

[00:04:48] Maurice Williams: Yep. No doubt that was my childhood man. And to go on the competitive part, I mean family too. I mean, we competed and having the best report card. Scrabble if it was running, I mean, you named it. That was just, that was how it was. And when you were younger, you really didn’t know any better, but you appreciated it.

And I never realized I was competitive until I was put around other kids my age. Right. And I realized everybody else was maybe not like that to that level, so I was a little too much, or you know, it was kind of a similar crowd that was at that level, which I enjoy being around them.

[00:05:27] Mike Klinzing: It’s funny how that works.  What lessons did you learn from those early years in high school, freshman, sophomore, as you don’t start out on the varsity team, so obviously you’ve got that carrot kind of dangling in front of you. But what do you think of when you think about how that shaped you as whether as a player, as a person, and eventually as a coach?

What lessons did you learn in those early high school years?

[00:05:49] Maurice Williams: Yeah, I would say, so going back to that story, 10th grade, this was I’m not trying to date back my age, I’m not old in any way, but this was kind of the time period where you would put the, the team who had made the team up on the list. Yep.

And you tell them to come back at a time. And I just remember going back in that locker room and I was kind of telling my, all my boys like, man, I’m going to wear this number and I’m going to do this. And we’re kind of looking at it and, and I stood in front of that list, man, and I was like, is there another side to it?

Did, is my name not spelled right? Like, I really was just in shock because before then I was always picked first top five. Again, I transferred from Reynoldsburg High School to Pickerington Central. So I was kind of the start of the school splitting up to Central and North. So yeah, that was my first encounter of not making something and I just, I’ll never forget my dad.

When he picked me up in the car and he saw my, the face that I had a disappointment and I told him, and I really wanted him to get out the car and let’s go find a coach. And he, and he told me, son, this isn’t going to be the worst thing that’s ever going to happen to you. You got a decision to make. It could either break you or it can make you, you, you let me know what you want to do with it.

And I was really upset with him about that because I wanted him to go in the gym and let’s go find this guy. But what he was teaching me is it’s all about how you respond to things. You can’t control what happens, but you can’t control how you respond to it. And that, that going into that sophomore year was even more, I’ll say the word embarrassing for me because a lot of my friends were on that team.

And I was playing recreational basketball at the time and. It was kind of like anybody that was watching me on those teams, it was like, well, what’s wrong with you? Why are you not on the varsity team? There’s have to be something wrong. And there was nothing wrong. I just, I wasn’t selected and my faith’s really important to me.

So I don’t, I believe God doesn’t make mistakes. It was purposely put there for me to grow and, and pull things out of me in that stage of my life. So going into that junior year, I was really prepared and ready for it. And I would say, going back to that statement, my dad told me in the car I was cut twice in college, so was cut from being a walk-on at a division two school.

So I always tell a joke if I was asked to walk on after the year, I was told to walk off. Some parents laugh at that, some don’t, but it was true. And then a very crazy story that some people know, some don’t. But my family had moved from Ohio to Maryland. And I was getting recruited by a lot of division three schools out of high school anyway.

So I found a school right by the beach called Salisbury University and had went there, same field as I felt in high school, felt I was one of the better players out there and was not granted the opportunity to be on the team. And the very unique part of my story as I rap here is the same office that I was cut in is now the office that I sit in today.

That’s amazing. So I tell people all the time again, that this story and me being at this university and leading these young men, at one point I was denied an opportunity where now I’m the gatekeeper of this basketball program. And I always tell people again to the end of your, your question here is, I never, the biggest thing I think I learned from all those things is I try to find a bigger purpose out of all of it and people say, it’s your program.

It’s not my program. I call myself number nine, meaning there was eight before me and there’ll be a 10th after me. So I’m just called to be a steward of this program while I’m here. If I’m the shepherd, these young men are the sheep I’m supposed to lead them. I’m supposed to guide them. I’m supposed to serve them, and I never take it too big or too small.

I just understand every single day that I’m gifted with something to serve others.

[00:09:57] Mike Klinzing: It’s pretty amazing when you consider just how that story came full circle and that you eventually get an opportunity to be the head coach there at Salisbury. I mean, the odds of that happening are, are pretty low. Let’s put it that, let’s put it that way.

Very, very interesting that, that, that’s how it turned out. And. Again, I can just see all the things that going along the way, the lessons that you learned that were, again, subtle just from the way that your dad talked about it. Like, Hey, you could either go this direction or you can go that direction. And we know, and I’m sure you know as well as anybody that oftentimes parents of basketball players or athletes, when they’re faced with that type of adversity that you and your family faced, that they tend to go the other direction, right?

It’s, let’s put the blame on somebody else. It’s let’s look for excuses. Let’s look for ways to navigate sort of around that. Instead of just saying, Hey, I can only control what I can control and I can go back and I can work at it and I get better. And hopefully that affords me the opportunity because somebody, whether it was that coach or a new coach or whoever it is, is going to recognize the work and the things that I’ve.

Put into it in order to get to where I want to go. So when you think back to that time, how did you go about putting that time and putting that extra effort in to make sure that you were in control of every possible thing that you could be in terms of becoming the best possible player that you could be?

In other words, how’d you double down on, I want to get better in the experiences where you were denied an opportunity?

[00:11:42] Maurice Williams: Yeah. Simple, simple answer. I had a praying mother, so my mother’s the type of person where if the job opens at Maryland tomorrow or Texas or Ohio State, she would call me and say, Hey son, there’s an opening at Texas, you’re going for it.

And I’m like, well, mom, that’s not necessarily how it works. You, they kind of call you. And she’s like, so, so what does that mean? You know, you don’t think you’re, you’re good enough. And, and what I learned from that is To have a, a faith and belief in yourself, that’s uncommon. And, and that’s who she was.

That’s what she gave to her children every day. You know, all those moments of that story, I gave you a fast forward version of it, but there’s so many times where I was like, I’m not doing this anymore. Like maybe I should just my best friend who’s assisting at V C U right now, Bryce Crawford was a manager at Ohio State at the time, and during these U-turns and, and dead ends that I’m hitting in my journey, I’m kind of seeing him do that.

And I’m like, okay, I think I want to coach because I don’t want what’s happened to me or what’s happening to me to happen to someone else. So I’m like, maybe I need to go do what he’s doing. And she always just told me that if, if you stop doing it today, there’s one person that would never see your gift, that would never get to see truly how good you are.

And would you be comfortable knowing that you have more in the tank? But you just decided to stop. And what I learned from that is I’ll never achieve it. If I stop, I’ll never achieve it. So I was just always learning from those things to just be persistent. And what made me a good player was not my physical attributes or all these skills.

It was I mastered doing things that other people hated. And one of those things was even I tell my players now, it’s conditioning. People hate that. I hate it. I don’t even like doing it now, but it’s a separator. And Yep. You know, you teach them by your own journey and that’s life, that’s separation.

That’s the game of basketball separation offensively, how can I gain separation? Well, I think life’s the same way. So it, it really came from the village that I was, that I was raised in and, and there were other people that just took an interest to me within this journey that. Saw, and I felt like I was a marathon runner, that whenever I just got really, really tired, somebody showed up with a cup of water and I was like, okay, cool.

I’m going to drink it. And this helped me kept going, keep going, keep going. I think the last part of that question, man, and I still do this now, is I’m obsessed with learning and getting better. I always thought learning was in a book and sitting in a classroom, but you know, during this time period, YouTube started to really become popular.

So as I started to gain this that other people had, I just said, I wonder somebody’s going to devote this much time into watching Kevin Durant or, or Kevin Garett. And this was way before Durant time, but Kevin Garett work on mid post stuff. You know, different ways Kobe Bryant got to his left hand. And, and that was how I, another way of just separate myself was just being obsessed with.

Learning improvement and ultimately that separation piece.

[00:15:08] Mike Klinzing: So you’re taking, you’re watching the video and then you’re taking that out on the court and working on those things, I’m assuming.

[00:15:13] Maurice Williams: Oh, man. I, Mike, I was the type of person at a basketball camp if I couldn’t do it. We had a mirror in my room and I would take it off the wall and lean it up towards the floor.

And I’m just doing footwork stuff in front of that mirror just so I could see it. Just so I could see it. And, and maybe I was laughed at the day at camp, but the next day my footwork in that area was a little sharper.  I loved to learn. And I realized this journey we’re talking about ultimately if you put all the pieces together, how do you make money doing that?

It’s coaching. That’s all I was really taking a keen interest into was, man, you’re, you’re going to be a coach one day. So, and, and I tell people all the time, what’s a coach? You know, a coach that was actually originated from a stage coach. So it was a horse. It was intended to take people where they are and take them to where they want to go.

And, and that’s kind of how I view my job now. It’s if this is where you are, well my job is to help you, take you to where you want to go.

[00:16:14] Mike Klinzing: I love that thought of practicing in the mirror. It’s one of the things that, I do a lot of basketball camps and I’ve done them for a lot of years, and I always think back to when I was at camp as a, let’s say 13, 14, 15 year old kid.

I used to go to camp that was at Denison University, Buckeye basketball camp. And then I went to Ohio State’s camp a couple years and went to different places and five star and whatever. And I remember being as a player, being in stations and having a coach. Demonstrate something, whatever. Let’s say it was a offensive one-on-one move with a pivot and a jab step or whatever.

Just looking at the footwork and being in line and watching that coach and trying to absorb it, and then doing that in line while it was waiting for my turns, so when I got there, I could be sure that I was going to do it right. And then I think about all the camps that I’ve run now as a coach, and I think about the number of times that a kid gets to the front of the line and they have no idea, not only about footwork, but I have, they don’t even know what they’re, they don’t even know what they’re supposed to do.

And I always think about that from my perspective as again, a 13, 14, 15 year old kid and be, and I’m just amazed that somebody could stand in that line and have someone demonstrating that skill and. Just not pay attention to what’s going on so that when they got to the front of the line, they wouldn’t know what to do.

Like it’s amazing to me. Mm-hmm. That people don’t do that. But to your point, the fact that a lot of people don’t do it, you use the word, it’s a separator. Right. And I think that for me, just like for you was a separator where I was going to put that extra time and that extra thought of 30 seconds in the back of the line, just moving my feet and pivoting and doing the, trying to imitate what I was seeing while I was in line.

And it’s amazing to me that people don’t do it, but the reality is they don’t. And that, as you said, becomes a separator. And then to take that a step further, to piggyback off what you said about continuing to be a learner, so there you were as a player, trying to learn, and now here you are as a coach, trying to learn and always improve and get better.

And you talked a little bit about how you kind of, at that point knew that coaching was a way that you were going to be able to continue to. Sort of utilize that skill that you’ve always had to be able to go in and learn something. And again, you were applying it to yourself as a player and now you’re applying it to your coaching.

At what point did you know that coaching was in your future? Were you a real little kid or was it, as you got into your high school, college career, at what point did you really zero in on, Hey, I think coaching is where I’m going to end up.

[00:19:08] Maurice Williams: Yeah, no, I was one of those guys, man, I wanted to play till my legs fell off and they had to take me off the court.

This might sound jokingly, but it’s true. I think because of how many times I was rejected and when I’m like, man, maybe I should get into coaching. Maybe I’m not that good. I don’t know you, you, story of my mom and me that, but. Yeah, I would say as you, there’s this quote I had in my room and life’s lived forward, but you only understand it when you look back.

I think was when I just started looking back at those situations and trying to understand why, well, number one, it birthed a passion in me that when I got that opportunity and played in college, that enabled me mentally to check into a different space as a player. But ultimately, I think I kind of shared this with you.

I really just didn’t want some of the experiences that I went through. To happen to someone else. And being at the division three level, which is what I played Frostburg State’s Division two now, but when I played it was division three. I always used the summers for camps and, and somebody, another coach and our head coach and I were talking about this.

I didn’t know it was a grind. I didn’t know I’m paying my dues. I just, Hey, this is summertime. Okay, what camps can we work, whether it’s Ohio State, where there’s Morgan Wooten camp Georgetown, I’ve flown out to Cal, worked at Santa Clara, like whatever it was, I wanted to do it. And one, because their players were there.

There’s higher level players than where I’m playing at that could kick my butt and I’m working on my game. And two, during the time, what people would do is they use those opportunities to. Get into coaching, building, building networks. So yeah, I thought I was killing two birds at one stone. And how I ended up at Frostburg was actually working a basketball camp.

It was actually at a school called U M B C, so they’re most famous for beating Virginia 16. One upset which I’m sure you heard of, but was working at camp there. And it was probably my first camp that I can remember and I felt like a weirdo because I came in with a clipboard and had like three different, like, dry erase markers.

And these kids were not very good players. Hope none of them are hearing this. They probably don’t even know. But and it was like having a huddle for the first time and. Them calling me Coach. I was like, this is awesome. I like this. You know, and I saw myself being able to do this as a profession, and that was kind of how it started with that camp.

And the camp actually worked perfect for me because the, the guys that were running it, which was director of basketball, operations and assistants the kids didn’t really want to play basketball that much. So they used us as the coaches, counselors as entertainment. So during this entertainment, there was a three point contest.

There was a dunk contest. And I didn’t win the three point contest, but the dunk contest I did something where it looked like, what is this dude doing? Where does he play at? Type deal. And I was playing afterwards, pick up with one of their, with some of their guys. And I was like, I can play here.

These guys aren’t bad. And well, it was another coach that was working with me at the time at the camp and he was, didn’t know, he was an assistant college basketball coach at a school called Frostburg State. And that was how I ended up being there and the rest kind of took care of itself. So I kind of gave him a little bit of my start of my playing journey too, because they both kind of intertwined with the love of coaching and how I was found and being able to play at the college level.

But work some great camps. I’m sure you know the name Morgan Walton. That was another, yeah, absolutely. Yep. That was another camp I loved, he would do these round tables and it was like the man knew who made the first jump shot and it was like basketball, like history. And I just left there with like pages and pages of notes and that’s kind of how I knew man when I was done playing whatever that looked like.  I wanted to do this.

[00:23:35] Mike Klinzing: All right. Let’s talk a little bit about the playing piece of it. So you are hanging with this coach from Frostburg at camp. What’s the next step? What’s it look like? Obviously you’ve got some situations in your past where things didn’t work out the way that you had hoped that they would.

So how did that impact the decision making process here to go to Frostburg?

[00:23:58] Maurice Williams: Yeah, so out of high school man, I was six three and a half, six four a buck 60 50. And on a good day, you could throw a 70 in there. That’s if I had Timberland boots on. So I was, I was really thin but I just played hard and started to learn what my coach wanted and, and started to become elite in that role.

So obviously there were no division ones calling me with those numbers that I just rattled off to you. And there was a really good amount of division threes. So Otterbein was one I really liked. A guy named Dick Reynolds was the head coach there. Man, there were several others, some NAIAs, but I’m like, man, I never really heard of any of these places, man.

I want to go the highest level I can. And those things just didn’t happen. Played spring aau, nothing happened. So I’m thinking about going the prep school route. I’m 17 years old at the time, and that’s when we started looking at your fourth unions. So a head coach there named Fletcher Eric. They hosted me on a visit and went down there, which was scary because I’m in the middle of nowhere in Virginia and people were just marching.

So I ended up not going there and was also probably not the best fit for them. So I thought for sure I was going to go the prep route somewhere. And then I ended up getting an opportunity late at an unsigned senior event to walk on at a D two school called Edinboro University. Told you they asked me to walk off, got cut at Salisbury.

I’m thinking basketball’s done. I’m working this camp and coach sees me by the name of Sean Brown, who was an assistant at Frostburg State at the time. He really took a liking to me. And asked me what did I think about Frostburg? I’m like, I don’t know what that is. I never, where, where is it? Where are you trying to take me?

And I think why I fell in love with it, Mike was every single day, at least it felt like every single day he called me, we talked, and I finally felt like this is what it’s supposed to feel like when you’re wanted somewhere and went on to visit. And it was not like, I mean, I’m not sure if you’ve ever been to western Maryland, but it was not like this metropolis of a city.

It was really rural, but I really had a, a great relationship with him. The head coach’s name was Webb Hatch, so I had a very candid conversation with him and what he wanted. And that was, that was how I ended up there, man. And I would say that first year, Man, I remember getting the jersey in it. It was just, it was such a great feeling.

I think I was just sitting there looking at it and people were thinking there was something wrong with me. But, but it, it was like, man, it just felt good to be back out and, and be on the floor. And I didn’t really get a sniff on the floor early. You know, coach kind of had his guys and what he wanted, and I just kind of took it every day, just kind of how I shared my high school career.

I just have to come in here and work and had an opportunity where I think it was like two minutes and I scored like eight points and, and threw down a pretty crazy dunk at the rim. And kind of similar to that high school story, I was like, I don’t think I’m going to be sitting here very long. And yeah, the, the rest was kind of history and going into that off season, I was really excited and I felt finally, this is where being in a college program where I felt plans for me and April of 2010, I received a phone call and text messages, and to give you a short story of it that two of my teammates were shot and, and one was killed on, on campus at an off campus party.

And him and I were very, very close. I was supposed to be around him at that night and I wasn’t there. And yeah, here I am feeling on a high and this happens and it, it kind of brought me low in. So that’s the start of, it kind of gave you a little shift of, a little bit more into it because of I don’t know if a lot of people know that, and that connection of me to that as that was my story starting out there.

[00:28:12] Mike Klinzing: So what I hear you saying is that at Frostburg, whether that was the players, the coaching staff, the school, whatever it was, it was a place that you finally felt. I don’t know if welcome is the right word, but you finally felt like it was the right fit for you, right? Yeah. That’s what we hear a lot in recruiting today is both from the player perspective.

Players are always trying to find the right fit in terms of the school, the basketball program, the coach. And then conversely, when we talk to coaches, they’re trying to find players that fit their program. So when you think about your experiences, both the good and the bad, how does that impact what you try to do with your players, with your student athletes, to make sure that, as you said, you didn’t want to repeat the same things that happened to you.

So how do you go about making sure within your program that you’re creating the kind of environment that is the one that you wanted as a player? Yeah,

[00:29:15] Maurice Williams: I think this is not, and I’ll say this too, like coaches really good ones are thiefs I learned this in undergrad. Are women’s basketball coach.

Hey, women’s basketball coach said this. And it kind of was like, that’s cool. I never thought about that. But she said, coaching’s the only thing where you’re legally allowed to steal. I was like, that’s cool. I like that. I’m going to take that. So, yeah, I mean, what I’m going to say is I’ve taken, I’ve taken this, but I try to be a thermostat every single day.

I never want our guys guessing what we’re going to do, what is expected, what do I expect from them, and lastly, that I really care and love them. And I had to learn early as a head coach being a young one, that younger people view love as getting what they want. You know, where we define it in our program is love is staying committed to it when you’re not getting what you want.

So I would say, really to answer your question, it’s, it’s being a thermostat. Them not having to guess. Even the recruiting process, I’ve kind of taken that word out of what we do and plugged in selection process. So we’re, I want guys to know, like we have a criteria where we’re looking to select you and I want you to be doing the same thing against for me and our staff.

And I would say the second part to that is kind of relative to what I just said is every day of sitting in this role, you have to be what you say. And the guys will never truly care what I say. They want to see that I’m doing it. And the hardest part of pushing the standards, you have to be the standard.

So every day they’re watching me and I never asked them to do things that I wouldn’t do. So there’s times, if you’re a player in our program that as the head coach, I’m sweeping the floor. There’s times as the head coach where I’m kind of sitting back. And feeling the pulse of the room, especially when guys come into the gym.

There’s certain times in our program where I’m serving the food and I think it speaks volumes to them on, okay, this is what he’s asking us to do. But there’s examples that they can replay and go back to where they’re seeing it. And then the last thing I go back to that Wooten Camp and those round tables, I’ll never forget, he said, be the coach that you’ve always wanted to play for.

And I’ve always kind of used that as a criteria in the sense of what are those things that I really wanted to play for? And, and that’s where I go back to where I started. Consistency loving them, having fun. I don’t think fun should go out of the door cause you’re playing college basketball.

We try to spell fun different from others. So most people spell fun. F u n we want to spell it w i n. So I want our guys to understand like there’s three levels to this. You know, you got participating, you got competing, and then that last stage, which is the smallest part, this is the separator, is winning.

It’s more fun when you’re winning and you know, those are the things I really try to get our guys to do.

[00:32:33] Mike Klinzing: Tell me a little bit about the communication side of what you try to do with players, both from a standpoint of, as you mentioned, there’s guys who aren’t getting what they want and you want them to stay committed to the program and what you’re trying to accomplish. And as anybody knows, that’s difficult to do.

It’s not the easiest thing in the world. For a kid who was a really good high school player, probably the best player on their team to go from. I’m out on the floor for 26 minutes in a high school game, and I’ve got the ball and I’m getting to do things, and now suddenly I’m in a program where I’m not playing as much maybe as I want to.

So just what’s the communication process like for you to help kids to understand where they are and then again, to continue to reiterate to them how much you believe in them and have and keep them committed to, to what you’re doing, even maybe when they’re not getting what they want? Yeah.

[00:33:35] Maurice Williams: I think anything on the court, I try as best as we can, and there’s some things, as you know, as a coach where you can’t do this to be data informed and not data driven.

So whenever a guy comes to sit down with me, there’s some coaches that really get upset when guys ask, why am I not playing? I love that question. Why? Because if you come and ask me that, we’ll set and create a space, and the first thing I’ll hand you is the exact same things that I look at and our staff looks at.

I think what we do as well, which I don’t know if you had him on your podcast, I know you had Josh Merkel, who I worked for, but we did. But Josh Leffler, who I work for at Hopkinswe did these, these hustle stats and I always, every year tweak them to fit how we’re going to play and what we want to emphasize.

So we do it every fall before we do anything with the guys. But anyways, what we do, Is any live segment, we’re filming it. And it’s funny now, Mike, because I’ve been here long enough where it’s not to say the practice isn’t going hard, but when those guys see my assistant wheel the camera over or turn it towards the camera, it’s like you put mouth pieces on, like they’re swiping shoes and it’s like, okay, that’s funny.

You know? And the new guys have no idea what’s about to happen and, and they understand going to those hustle stats like first of the floors. So you want you guys to be first of the floor and we. If that’s an emphasis we really want to focus on with this group that’s plus three in our practices, that’s three points.

So you getting that first to the floor is going to be huge hockey assist. So the assist the past that gets to the past, that leads to the assist making that more important than the assist where you’re going to have guys giving up some of those tough tools to, to get your ball moving a little bit.

So to answer your question, man, like we, there’s no surprises. I try to be data informed as much as we can, but I want our guys to know I’m not data driven and this is no knock to anybody that’s in the analytics, but I’m not a let’s just live and die by the numbers. They just tell a story. But I have to have a feel.

And you used the word belief too. I have to have some belief as well. But I would say that’s the main thing as far as our communication, and that’s on the court, off the court. I think the days of the open door policy are over, especially when you’re a head coach. You know, if you’re waiting for the open door, those dudes aren’t coming by.

They’re just not, you know? And that was the first thing I had to learn when I was an assistant. They always came by. You know, when you’re a head coach, it’s like they’re kind of looking to see if the light’s on and can they scurry through like a roach. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, I always say I break the door down and I intentionally create space in my day where I go to them.

I try not to meet in my office that much anymore. So our guys know I got like five offices. I got my main office, which is in a building. I got my office right next to our, our mascot named Sammy Siegel, which is outside. I got a gazebo you name it. So our guys are like, what office are you in today?

And a lot of that is from a mental health standpoint, it’s nervous. You have some nerves when you’re always walking into a room and the person that’s sitting there holds control where mentally and you think of sci like scientifically as well. Naturally when you take people in different environments, they’re going to be able to communicate more comfortably with you in certain about certain things.

And that’s all I want to do. And then lastly, I would say as far as communication listening is a part of communication too. So I just try, if, if it doesn’t lead to winning, like if it doesn’t affect the exact result to the game, I want our guys to know that they have space and latitude to share.

So I got a dude on my team, his name’s Buddha. It’s not his real name, but it’s his nickname, but he’s in the fashion and every single, not every day, but he’ll say some things and gimme some suggestions and stuff. And because I feel he feels that he can be heard. He loves to come to me and some days I’m like, Hey man, that sounds good.

And some days I’m like, that’s a little over the top. We’re not doing that. And, and, and that’s how I think when you’re, when you got a good pulse of your team is when you’re learning about their girlfriends, when they’re saying silly stuff to you, when they just come in for absolutely no reason.

And, and that’s the best part of my day. So I hope that answered your question,

[00:38:22] Mike Klinzing: No, it does. I think that’s one of, right, it that’s, that’s the art of coaching, right? It’s, it’s navigating that line between I’m, as a coach, I’m, rightly or wrongly, I’m sort of perceived as an authority figure, right? Which is why you’re talking about players trying to skirt the head coach’s office, right?

So you have that, and at the same time you think back to your time as an assistant where guys are much more likely to come and jump in the office and talk to you and share some of the things that you just talked about, whether it’s fashion, girlfriends, life classes, whatever. They’re just maybe not as likely to come to the head coach.

And so to be able to walk that line between, I’m the guy who determines their playing time. So that’s something that’s really important to players, and yet I still want to be that guy that creates that welcoming culture, that ability to build that relationship. I think walking that line is something that is challenging for.

I think any coach to be able to figure that out. So was that something that you feel like you were pretty good at naturally because of kind of your background? Or do you feel like that’s something you’ve grown into over the years as you’ve progressed in your career?

[00:39:32] Maurice Williams: Oh man, I think whenever you step in and you become an assistant, you have this way on how you think it’s going to go.

And you can read as many books as you can, but it’s like fatherhood. You never know till you’re ready. And I would say, to answer your question, Mike, I’m better at year four than I was at year one. And maybe year one I was a little more, not trying to be buddy buddy, but the program and what I inherited not to go too deep into it, but those guys that went through so much, so I just tried to really meet them where they are.

Where I think now I’m a lot more intentional of guys. I’m really, I really, really, really, I love you and again, this is where I think defining common words are very important. Because if you don’t love to, you might be different to me. Where again, having that love being the same definition, they understand it better.

So guys, I love you, but I’m not really going to put a lot of energy if you’re upset with me or don’t like me because really what the focus is and the mission is, which is defined by them every year I don’t lead, I don’t hold our guys accountable. I lead them to accountability, which is something else that I’ve changed in my coaching philosophy.

But once I kind of know what they want, Now I’m able to lead them instinctively where I would say when I started, I was more of like, well, let’s just kind of get a feel for what they want to do and meet them where they are. Where I would say now I try to really get them to understand this is the urgency it takes every day, but also I try to gather what they want first, and then every single day I’m leading them to what they said.

And it just diffuses the intensity of conflict. Because great coaches embrace conflict. Like I want our guys to love and embrace conflict. I want relationships where conflict is not this negative thing, but when we hit that conflict, if one of your things was, I want to be an All American and you’re mad at me today, and I’m like, Mike, well I didn’t say I wanted to be an All American buddy like you did.

Well immediately it diffuses them from like, I hate this dude to like, you know what, he’s right. Right. I did say that. So, and that’s where I would say it changed for, for me.

[00:42:08] Mike Klinzing: So are you setting those expectations, those things that the players are going to be accountable to, whether that’s an individual goal, like I want to be an All-American, versus there’s things from your team, expectations, standards, pillars, whatever you want to call them.

Are you doing that in preseason meetings? Just what’s the process for getting to that accountability?

[00:42:32] Maurice Williams: Yeah. Every year we have. Our, so we have our blank canvas meetings. So that’s the one where being all American, double, double. You get some great stuff, Mike. It’s, I don’t think anybody’s ever said, I want to be average, or I just want to sit the bench.

So I love it. I write them down and I put them in a filing cabinet right to my desk, and I tell our guys every day, that is what instructs me on how to be connected to your heart or pull at those strings that day. Then we have that preseason meeting where it’s set by me. So I call it the tone setter meeting.

That’s me. I don’t do rules. It’s called our bees. So be be an elite communicator. Be on time, on time for us at seven minutes early. Be be your brother’s keeper, you know? So that means care deep, more deeply about him than yourself. And then the last one we have is the, the team one. We’re set by them.

So every year, guys, what do you want us to be about? What is if you could describe our team in a word right now, what would you want that word to be? So ours, this past season was rooted. Rooted most of the growth that we were going to get was going to start below ground before it happened above ground.

I wanted our guys to understand, regardless of what the outside saw, again, every tree is rooted strongly. You don’t see its roots, you only see what’s above ground. Let’s not focus on the above ground. That’s what other people formulate opinions. That’s what they think. Let’s focus so much on our roots. Our roots determine our fruits.

And that was really what we focused on. Guys loved it. And but every year they have a say to that.

[00:44:15] Mike Klinzing: What’s the process for getting to that word? Is it just, you’re going around the room, guys are giving suggestions and there’s a discussion? How do you go about that? Cause I think that’s interesting that.

You boil it down to one word. I think obviously there are coaches, I think about teachers of which I’m one that a lot of times you’ll sit down and talk about, okay, so what are some of the standards or what are some of the things that are going to be important in our classroom? And coaches, what’s going to be important in our program?

So how do you get them to boil it down to one word? What’s that process where you go from brainstorming a bunch of ideas to Okay, we’ve got the thing that we want. Yeah.

[00:44:48] Maurice Williams: Work with a guy, Jason Wells, he’s an author. Works with several teams around the country. And he’s a huge orchestrator of this.

So this spring was something he really wanted to do with our guys as we just finished the season, kind of gathering our thoughts. Then we’ll usually pick it back up in the fall, which in the fall it’s really full force because we had everybody, including new guys into it. But for our program, I didn’t come up with it.

John Gordon wrote a great book. So all, all props go to him, but we want a one word for each individual so it gives them their individual freedom, creativity, and how they want to be led to accountability. And then as far as the big word, I think what I try to do is communication’s also listening, like I said.

So what are some things that these guys are, are saying consistently as we have these conversations on what we want to be about? And I think the, where I came with the word rooted, how that one came about was you know, wanting to compete wanting to be the team every day that cared about the guy next to him, where you don’t, you don’t really see those things in a game.

You can see a little bit of it, but those are more behind the scenes things. You know, those are things that more your coaches your athletic trainer you know, the players internally are going to see. And then I think from there it was like, as we continue to use this language of what we want to be, what word kind of makes sense?

So we had about three or four out there, but the rooted one was something that really stuck and, and they liked it. And I think for us, it just removed all of this. I don’t like the word pressure. It’s not pressure. But it kind of just created our own barometer of what we focused on. Cause I’m not sure if you’re familiar with our institution, but I mean, every year, especially in the spring, I mean we have several sports competing for a national championship.

We have all the cross team competing for number 13, the 13th national championship in their program Sunday. Our softball team is, is up for winning one and then our baseball team. So yeah, I think comparison can be the thief of joy and I just wanted our guys, let’s not compare ourselves to them we’re building, but what’s a word that can really, really stay with us and kind of the process and stage of where we are.

But it came a lot from just words that they were saying and we kind of framed it into that, becoming the one we wanted to go with.

[00:47:27] Mike Klinzing: Okay. And then how during the season do you then, Refer back to it. Like gimme an example of something that happened during the season where you then referred back to, Hey, we’re rooted, this is where it really applies, and this is how we use it to draw strength and, and get to where we want to go.

[00:47:47] Maurice Williams: Yeah, I would say great question. I would say whenever we hit anything, so if it’s a moment of high guys, let’s just keep pouring into the root. Let’s just keep pouring into the root. You know, all we have to do is be great at the next thing tomorrow. Let’s pour into the root. You know, if we get knocked on our heels, which I know you had John Krikorian on here seeing you.

Great, great program. They had a great year. Whenever you have a juggernaut like that in your league guys, let’s, let’s stay focused on the root protect the root. Because also you can have something rooted, but if it’s not in the right soil, if it’s not getting what it needs, it’s not going to grow. So that’s where another reference I’ll give you for your question is, when our guys go home, Thanksgiving, Christmas there’s something I tell them don’t get sniped.

Don’t get sniped. And what that means is don’t allow people that you can’t see to snipe you. You know, what does sniping you mean? They’re hitting you with language of things that go against our culture. So for instance, Mike, I don’t know why you’re not playing more, Mike, are you serious? Number five’s playing more over you.

Hey man, that coach doesn’t know what he’s doing. You’re getting sniped because that type of energy gets into you. Then you come back to us and that’s how I know you getting sniped. How do I know you’re getting sniped? Your body language, your energy you’re not as coachable that day. You know, so it’s funny, like I had a guy go get his, get a haircut and haircuts Now they don’t get the full haircut anymore.

They just get the sides done. And you know, he was like, coach man, they was when I was getting my haircut, man, they was trying to snipe me and I started busting out laughing. I was like, what’d you do? Told man, hey, like, we’re good.  Let’s just focus on the cut, not, not the game. And I started busting out laughing.

So it’s a little cultural thing that kind of stays with us, but it’s true. You know, you have to, these words don’t mean anything. You also have to protect them. But where that came from was, again, as we’re rooted, you have to also protect and make sure you’re watering it because there’s going to be things when you go back home when it’s not going well.

Right after that game, your parents love you, but they don’t hear what we’re saying and, and what we’re striving for every day. And they could be sniping you too, and you don’t even know it.

[00:50:09] Mike Klinzing: Good stuff. I love when we take. A word, an idea concept, a standard. And then we actually talk about what that means on the ground.

Cause I think a lot of times you’ll see teams that have the slogan in the locker room, although have the phrase, and a lot of those are really cool there. There’s some really good ones out there. And then my thing is always like, I love hearing those, but then I also love following up with, okay, but how do you refer to that during your season?

And those are some really good examples of how the word rooted helps you to build the kind of program that you want to build and allows you to talk about real world things that have an impact on your team today, but also help your players to learn things that they’re going to benefit from years and years down the road as they continue to progress in their career and in their life in general.

So I think that’s just, I love hearing the boots on the ground stuff in addition to sort of the, the pie in the sky. Like, this is what we’re striving for, but all right, how do we actually put that into practice? I think that’s a really, those were some really good examples of that. Let’s work backwards for just a second.

Tell me about your career as an assistant coach. Maybe just hit on a couple highlights, things that stick out to you that you learned maybe from one of your several stops as an assistant coach before you got to Salisbury.

[00:51:31] Maurice Williams: Yeah. I focus on three and I say this intentionally, I feel like I hit the jackpot of head coaches I worked for and being a young assistant, being able to learn under, you know to work first.

You know, Josh Merkel, who you had on here I worked for Josh when he was a head coach here at Salisbury, so very, always very similar to how he is now. I just remember. Him being so intentional and wanting to learn every day. I mean, it was almost like, I don’t think at times, like people knew how intelligent he was because of how, like he was just relentless at like learning.

And when you worked for him, like you could never come in that day, that week and not pursue growth. And that was just what he was about. And even like how he treated his body. I mean, those were the best pickup games I had. I mean, there were times where him and I were, were ripping each other’s heads off.

And it was awesome. It was awesome and our connection came from my playing career a little bit. But man, he was just so good at wanting to get better every day. He had a way of doing things. And I would say the best thing about him that I learned, Is he had a really great feel of what he could and couldn’t coach, like the type of player he could know at the drop of a hat.

And a lot of it was I learned from him during this stop early in my career is use questions as a weapon. Like, great questions lead to great answers. You know, I don’t think people are poor communicators. Maybe we’re not asking the right questions. So he was very good at that. Josh Loeffler, who I worked for at, at Johns Hopkins, who’s continued to also have a great program there.

So I worked for him the first year he was at Hopkins. We did not know each other. It was through a mutual friend the interview. It was the most different interview ever. He told me like, yo man, don’t wear a suit. Don’t wear a tie. Just come on in. Let’s, let’s talk. And I obviously, I remember him asking me some questions, but I just felt, we were just talking basketball and I’m like, man, if this dude is like this every day, I want to, I want to be around him because we didn’t just talk about like basketball, like what was going on.

I mean, his, his brain and how he was wired. I mean, it was like basketball 1 0 1 for me. And the way we played with some of the, the prince and offense stuff I mean, I loved it. I felt some days I was the dumbest guy in the room and I loved every minute of it. And what I learned about him is he always let the guys be who they were, but he always held them also to a standard.

And if you know anything about Hopkins, like these types of kids, like, I mean, they were brilliant students. So he also just had this humor to him where they would be so serious and he’d just crack a joke and they’d kind of loosen everything up and he’d be like, guys, it’s not that serious. Like, it’s not that serious.

So he was the one for me, especially the time period for me where I just, I loved working for him. It stretched me out of my comfort zone. And to this day, I mean, I refer to just things that he does or just things that I did working with him. The last one, I was a division one assistant Longwood University for a guy named Rick Aldrich.  So during the time when we first took that job, there’s like 300 and I don’t even know now cause it’s changing, but let’s 60 62 division one programs. When we’re at Longwood, we first came, we were definitely not too far off from the 360, 350 range. I mean, we were bad. And it was cool coming in with him because if you know anything about Griff, he does not have this at the time, did not have this huge basketball resume of working for all these people.

He actually was a CFO for oil and gas company and was at U M B C during that, that great magical run. But what I thought he was elite at was he ran the program very structured to a business model, and I think the first thing that he did is he wanted our guys to feel like winners before we became winners.

So a lot of the things that we did were to improve the feel and the look of the program and, and that was something that I also kind of took going into here. And it’s kind as I look at things working for him, it, it kind of trained me to have a mindset of how can we improve what we’re doing every year.

And last thing I thought he was just, Terrific at, at being stern about our, his standards every, every day. I know that guys hated it. It was tough. There were some, there were some days where guys really were, were challenged by it. But I think that ultimately is what makes him great and his programs great, is the message didn’t change too much.

It was consistently holding him to the standard. And that’s why it’s the program is where it is at Longwood is because of the leadership that he consistently has. So, yeah, I hit the lottery and there’s several others that I worked for, but those three right away were just guys that really poured a lot into me.

[00:57:11] Mike Klinzing: So after that year at Longwood, at that point, are you looking actively for head coaching jobs? Are you just. Planning to continue. Obviously you get to the division one level. That’s a dream for a lot of guys is to get that kind of opportunity and then continue along that path. Just what was your mindset, your mentality during that year at Longwood, after that year at Longwood?

And then how does the opportunity at Salisbury come to you?

[00:57:40] Maurice Williams: Yeah. The division one calendar’s so much longer than division three, so Yep. I never really had time to think about Okay. Like, what, what’s the next job? Because Yeah it is just different as you’re aware of. So the job is, Salisbury actually opened up in the fall of that year, and you kind of knew the whole year that they were, after the season, they were going to be looking to hire a coach and I was already there with, with Josh as an assistant.

When I played at Frostburg, Salisbury was our rival, so I hated them. I got cut there, so I hated them even more. So I didn’t really think of ever going back like that. That was never my, my thing. And again, some of the names that I mentioned to you, they kind of told me, you, you’ve always said you wanted to be a head coach, a small college head coach.

Those jobs are really hard to get. And whenever you can get one where your name or something you’ve done can, can be linked to it, you, you have to go for it. And that was kind of the nudge of, okay, all right. I’ll just throw my name in there. But whatever. I, that’s kind of how I was thinking, you know? And then it went pretty quickly.

And obviously I have familiarity with the place. The interview quickly you know, did you do the zooms, which I felt very confident on, and then was asked to come on campus and share with you briefly my faith being really important to me. So I came in the day before and I didn’t need a campus visit.

And usually when I’ve gone on, on the head coaching interviews, which this was my third the night before, I kind of drive around the campus just to get familiarity of buildings they’re going to ask me to go to so I can get there early. And while I’m getting there early kind of just work through whatever I’m going to say, work out some nerves.

But on this one, I’ve been here before, so I didn’t need to do that. So instead I just kind of walked to campus and it was just present and allowed my mind and my spirit to just take in memories that I felt prayed about it several times and my wife and I also talked about it before I came.

On the interview. And I knew that next day, not trying to sound arrogant in, in any way but when, when I went in the next day for the actual interview, I felt really confident that it was going to be mine. And if it wasn’t, then that’s okay. And it, it happened quickly. And it kind of go back to what I said a little bit a while ago when we got started.

It’s one of those things you could prepare for as you as much as you want but you’re never, never truly ready till you’re in it.

[01:00:25] Mike Klinzing: What was the most surprising part of getting started as a head coach? What were you maybe not prepared for or what was different compared to what you thought heading into it.

[01:00:35] Maurice Williams: Yeah, I think the obvious is the decisions as an assistant, all your, all your decisions are right?

And well, why didn’t we put Joe in there? Like that, that’s just natural when you slide over. It’s just, it’s. I mean, when you’re on that seat, that’s natural. I would say the biggest thing I learned is, man, there’s so much to this that I thought I knew and, and it, I’m, I’m surprised from budgeting to fundraising.

I mean, you there, there’s a lot there. I also, I didn’t know that there was a loneliness to it as being a head coach. You know, I think the first thing is, so my first win as a head coach you talk about somebody that starts out high, we beat a division one program and the first game, so this game, I didn’t know I could stand up.

So I’m like yelling at this official for something and my assistant’s like, yo you can like stand up and go over there, right? I was like, ah, yeah, you’re right. So, so that’s funny was there and it’s like, alright, am I a sitter? Am I a stander? Yeah, he was just kind of trying to feel it out.

You know, in these timeouts, I felt we were really organized. But it, it, I always say that first year it’s, you’re kind of figuring yourself out on how you’re going to be as far as what the structure’s going to be, what’s the message going to be? You asked about our word rooted. There’s been timeouts, man work.

I didn’t go in and just throw a bunch of stuff in. I just said, guys, remember what we said? You know, our word is rooted. Our word is rooted. They’re going on a run. We have to master the unseen work box outs, be a lead at the things that don’t show up on the on the box score airtime movement. You know, I say all the time, our guys air times our time.

Well, those are things that are root things. You don’t see them unless you’re like us as coaches, where you’re like, man, they ain’t really doing a good job. Boxing out every play. Like the average fan, the average fan doesn’t see that. So there’s times where. Now I kind of used that word before. It was like, okay, I have to draw this, I have to do that.

And, and you just realize, man, those timeouts are short and you, you have to figure out just what’s most important and, and that’s, that’s the main things that I would say I picked up side over.

[01:03:08] Mike Klinzing: I think what’s interesting to me about the whole process of transitioning from being an assistant coach to being a head coach, obviously you’re trying to figure out, as you said, you’re trying to figure out yourself.

So what’s your process? What was your process? What is your process for going through? And I guess self-analyzing, right? You take a lot of time to analyze your team and your players and figure out. Things that you need to do within the program. But when you think about just trying to analyze yourself, and obviously it goes along with learning as a part of it, but just I’m thinking about reflecting on, okay, we did this or I did this.

How can I do it better or should I be doing it differently? Do you have a, a process or a way you go about thinking in terms of that self-analysis?

[01:03:58] Maurice Williams: Yeah, I think when that, going into that first year, allowing people that you trust to give you feedback. So there’s a guy retired now that was a head coach at Virginia Tech.

His name was Frankie Allen. His name’s Frankie Allen and was also the head coach at Maryland, Eastern Shore. He now still lives in the area and broadcast games at University of Maryland Eastern Shore. So that first year I really asked him cause I knew he loved hoops and he is been a head coach in coaching for so long.

You know, coach, if you ever wanted to come by or if you can, like, I’d love for you to come by and just gimme feedback and that was really helpful. You know, because he would tell me like, you’re spending too much time. Like officials for instance. I was never, I’m still not this person that’s verbally aggressive with them, but he kind of taught me what refs are looking at certain things.

As a player you don’t know that as an assistant, you don’t know that and he kind of taught me little things about managing the game. Don’t be so high on focusing on speaking to that kid when your team just turned it over and then they, they don’t, they’re looking at you at a play and they don’t have one, you know?

So have a system as soon as guys are coming out to be doing this. Again, when, when it’s your first time doing it, you either watch what guys. That you work for or doing, or you’re kind of going to revert to your habits. So he was really helpful for me in just sharing some of those tips. Something else I do, Mike, is just like, I watch our guys on film, like I watch myself.

So there’s a lot of things that I’ve shared tonight that it goes back to that standard piece. You know, I always say when you’re a coach and you’re vulnerable, the next thing whenever you do that people listen and hear is they want to see, okay, is he really like that? Like, is he really, really like that?

And I’ll never forget having a similar conversation going to happen with you. And I remember walking off a floor in defeat, which has happened to us a good amount of times, and I’m like, man, I talk about joy, joy, joy. But like, I look terrible right now. Like, I’m like, I’m depressed. And I had to find a way where, I’m never going to be a good loser.

I don’t want to be one. But how can I maintain a body language where it doesn’t show that whatever happened in that game immediately is how I’m going to respond to it. I think the final thing for me is you know, my wife and I have a beautiful young daughter, three year old she could care less whether we won loss what play I ran.

She just wants to play and see me. So you talk about something that immediately that snaps you towards the most important things. Children do that and our guys love when she comes to practice because when she does. I take an eye off of them and my focus is on her and I don’t apologize for it.

Because I think one of the most powerful things that you can do as a coach is also show them that you’re a father and, and your husband. And, and I have guys in our programs whose dads are not around. So them seeing me be dad might be a little bit more important than us working on that free throw that free throw blockout situation.

And, and those are the things as well that tho they’re very powerful and I don’t take those moments and those opportunities for granted. So those are the ways I would say I evaluate myself. I think if it gets too bad, my wife will probably tell me I lost it or my mom or somebody. But yeah, I would say that’s how I’ve looked at myself.

[01:07:48] Mike Klinzing: It’s good to have those women in your life to straighten you out, right when you start going on the wrong path.

[01:07:51] Maurice Williams: Telling you about yourself either man.

[01:07:54] Mike Klinzing: That is definitely true. I will vouch. I will vouch for that without, without question. I’ll leave it. I’ll leave it there. All right, so that’s kind of the self-analysis piece.

We talked a little bit about you being a lifelong learner, just being somebody who has a quest for knowledge. So as a head coach, I mean, again, throughout your career and the other positions you had, what are some ways that you go about. Trying to learn more, whether it’s about the game, about leadership, just what’s your approach to learning and where do you go?

What are your sources that you like to go to, to learn?

[01:08:25] Maurice Williams: Yeah. So again, share with you about our athletic department. So our lacrosse coach here, he is a all time winnings lacrosse coach in NCAA lacrosse history. Again, he’s pursuing number 13. He has 12 national championships, over 600 wins. So a guy knows what he’s doing.

Baseball program is won a national championship. Women’s lacrosse is won three, I think, or four. My supervisor in field hockey, I know she’s won three. You know, our softball team is pursuing their first, but has been in the Final four. So when you have a tree of people, our football coach as well, they’ve made it to the n NCAA tournament consistently and won their conference consistently.

But when you have a, a tree of people and the ACC of access to you that have success like that always say you be a fool and not watch what they’re doing. So I really, I go to their games, I watch practices. I don’t necessarily watch tactically what they’re doing because they’re different sports.

But I think the organization and process on how to manage people and players is something that I really take I love to read. Which is funny because as a kid I hated reading, but I love to read. Podcasts are great. I know I gave you a shout out early, so the, the, I loved your, your podcast and several others, but I would say for me, Mike, honestly, oh, something else I’ll share too.

Like, I think I really taken a really keen interest to post-game interviews, especially during playoffs. So I think these, these guys and, and, and young ladies are so vulnerable during these times of these games, and usually it’s the high, high or the low of lows. And I think they just produce such powerful content like Giannis had won on their, their last game that went viral.

But I’m just the type of person, man, if you played Stony Brook in January 17th, like I want to watch the podcast. I mean, I want to watch the post-game interview. I just want to see what you said. And, and maybe there’s some nuggets there that you can pull. So those are things and ways that I learn. I think honestly, man, because of how I am, I’ve now focused on when do I not want to learn anything or read anything.

So I intentionally, when the season starts, I don’t read anything. I’ll read probably more of my like a spiritual read. But as far as anything basketball or leadership, I don’t. And, and here’s why. I think for me, and I kind of got this a little bit from Josh to where Josh Merkel. I think for me, when I, when I learn something, I get so excited to want to apply it.

And, and if I’m constantly learning stuff in season, the guys are going to feel like, man, did he just read another book? Now we’re doing something different now. So I just like eating, like there’s certain times of the day, especially at night. Where your food is not going to be digested properly. So it’s the same thing with me with learning during certain parts of the season that’s not going to be digested properly.

So I’m not eating during that time. I’m going to ride off the nutrients that I had during the day, and it’s the same thing with how I pursue learning. So right now I’m open to learning. I do a free coaches clinic every summer for high school coaches here. But once we kind of hit that fall and start really getting into the season I really try to cut that off and from my dieting, using that as a, as a something to compare it to.

I try to not consume much that during that time period.

[01:12:17] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, that’s interesting. And it makes sense. I never really thought of it that way, but again, you go into your season with a plan and you’ve obviously spent a lot of time preparing that plan and I. If you pick up new things, like you said, all of a sudden now you’re kind of deviating from that plan that you spent six months working on.

And I can completely understand that thought process. Never really thought about it that way, but I think it’s a really interesting way to look at it and a way to approach your season where it kind of keeps you focused on, hey, this is what we’re about, this is what we’re doing, and then boom, you get to the off season and now it’s your opportunity to go back and continue to grow and, and then you can incorporate those things when you have time to really think and and process those, which as you know, You don’t always get a ton of time to be able to do that during the season because things are coming at you pretty quickly.

And so to, to really sit down and process, okay, what if we want to make this change or add this thing? What’s the, what’s the impact? How do we do it? And yeah, trying to do that on the fly I think is tremendously challenging. Let’s talk real quickly a little bit about recruiting. Obviously recruiting life, blood, blood of your program and, and getting the right guys in the door is, is a huge part to having a successful program.

So tell me a little bit about what you look for in your recruits. Obviously there’s a requisite level of talent that a player has to have to be able to play at that level, but just what are some things that you’re looking for beyond just maybe the sheer raw talent that are important to you when you bring a guy into your program?

[01:13:46] Maurice Williams: Yeah, intrinsically motivated. So you’re familiar and you’ve had some great division three head coaches on here. So you’re familiar with our timeline and how we can work with guys. It’ll be changing for the first time a little bit this upcoming year, but yeah they’re going to be away from us, not around us, more than they will be around us.

So that goes back to my root word of having those guys that, that are intrinsically motivated, that love it, that love it, want to get in there, it’s not work. It, it’s something they enjoy the character piece. So for us, no different part than anybody else, characters who you are when no one’s watching.

And I tell people when I go to games, I used to text kids and say, Hey, I’ll be there tonight. Good luck. I don’t do that anymore. I think young people because of social media are being trained to show their best selves when they have to. Like Instagram, nobody’s showing like a chip. Toenail on Instagram or nobody’s saying, I’m sad on Instagram, you’re always going to see the highlights.

So I, now, when I go to games, I intentionally want to see what they don’t want me to see. So I’ll come unannounced, I’ll sit in places that they don’t think. Obviously, eventually they’ll find out that I’m there, but a lot of that is I want to see what they don’t want me to see. And that’s extremely important because it goes back to the person, the overall person.

We want scholars. So for us, I always say it’s not, you don’t have to be the best, but I want your best. The pursuit can’t just be a degree, it has to be more than a degree. It has to be what do you want to do after that degree is obtained? You can’t have wheelbarrows in your program where if you don’t physically move them, they’re, they’re not going to do it.

So you, you have to have guys that, that. Again, want to be elite in that area of their lives. I would say a great teammate. So I look for how many times you’re touching fives or, or embracing a teammate. And then the last one here, man, that’s, that’s different is I would say the parents. So you heard me talk about the word village, and when you asked me about myself, I took zero credit and went straight to them.

And I think that is just a pivotal time for that age to see what their village is like. Because what are they saying? How are they communicating? How do they talk about the coach that he currently has? What do they say about their son? Because in that particular chapter that you’re asking about, it’s that coach, if they come to you, you are now that coach.

So I pay a lot of attention to how you’re talking about your high school coach. Okay. Maybe he’s not a great ex as an old guy, I’m not saying you have to lie and say the man is John Wooden. But like, is there a level of respect? Is there certain ownership that you’re taking if your team’s not doing well?

Or are you just like, it’s the coach’s fault and the parents are like, yeah, I don’t know why they don’t plan him and they should be playing him. That’s a red flag for me. And that’s not something that, that we want around. So I would say those are the main ones. I would say the last one, and this is more basketball related, is what do you do that’s the best on your team?

Like, what is your separator, which we talked about earlier in this. So are you the fastest on the team? Like, do you win every sprint? Are you the best screener on your team? Are you the best passer on your team? Are you the best shooter on your team? And there’s a lot of other categories I can talk about.

If you’re not the best at any of those, that’s also something that’s not attractive to me. Why I look for that is if you know you’re the best in that when you come here, you’re going to have a certain awareness or we talk about having sureness about your game, that I’m, you’re not going to be offended if I’m telling you, Hey, we want you to really continue to work on your catch and shoot game.

Yeah. If you already know I’m the best shooter on my high school team, well you are not going to be offended if I’m telling you continue to get better as a shooter, while also growing different branches with shooting being the main trunk of what will get you on the floor. You know, where if you have a guy that’s like, Hey, I’m kind of good at everything.

Well, those are the guys that I try to stay away from a little bit because I don’t think anybody’s good at everything. There’s have to be something.

[01:18:24] Mike Klinzing: Well, it’s funny. It’s funny that you say that because again, I’ve, this has been kind of a theme that we’ve talked with guys about in terms of recruiting and just the way things work.

But you know, I always kind of come back to, it started with a conversation that I had with Mike Procopio who worked for the Dallas Mavericks and worked with Kobe. And he just said that there’s very few guys that no matter what level you’re talking about, but he was talking primarily about the nba.

There just isn’t very many guys who get to take the ball and do whatever they want and show off every skill that they have, right? Most guys, even guys making a lot of money in the nba, they have one or two things that they do really, really well and they kind of double down on that. And it’s sort of counterintuitive, right?

Because when a kid’s younger, they’re working on everything, right? You want the kid to be well-rounded, you want them to be able to do this and that. You want to be able to shoot it and handle the ball. And then the further you go up, In the game of basketball, the more likely it is that you’re going to become a role player.

That your coach is going to depend on you, Hey, you’re our best rebounder, or hey, you’re our best perimeter defender. Or Hey, you’re the guy that sets the table for everybody else, whatever it is, and guys are doubling down on that. So I think that’s kind of where what you’re talking about really resonates and rings true with me.

That so often we see kids that in high school and parents and there’s, I think there’s such a, a misunderstanding of what coaches are looking for in a player that so many people just think, well, this guy’s have to come watch me play and I have to score a ton of points and I have to be doing everything and show them that I’m this a court superstar player.

Well, the reality is, is that even at the college level, I mean, how many guys in any program have just. Hey man, here’s the ball. You go do what you want. Like even the best player on most college teams doesn’t have that kind of freedom. There’s still roles and things that you have to do that you don’t just get to do whatever you want.

And I just think it’s interesting when you talk about recruiting and It’s when I hear you talking about, Hey, I’m looking for something that a guy does that like a strength that you know is going to translate, right? Like there’s a kid who’s a great offensive rebounder, like you’re watching him and you’re like, that kid is going to offensive, rebound at whatever level he plays.

And you know, that’s a translatable skill. And maybe there’s other things that he’s not as good at, but you know, hey, we can develop this kid and and do this, and he can play this role for us. I just think it’s interesting that it kind of is counterintuitive to what a lot of people think.

[01:20:59] Maurice Williams: That makes sense man. And a quick, quick story. I always go back to my high school, Pick Central, and this was during the time period when a young man named Jay Tate. Was in high school and not that I had any chance on trying to recruit or get jayshawn, I just was there. Because I love going back and if they have any guys for us I’m always interested, but I remember telling coach when I left, I said, that dude’s going to find a way to be a pro at a very high level.

And he said, why? And you know, he’s six four if you know anything about Jay Sean, but he does things that you, that you and I are talking about that just separates himself that lead to winning that are extremely hard to find. And you forget that he’s only six four because of how well that he doesn’t. And this undrafted player that ended up going overseas and you know, was playing in summer league, is earned himself and, and made himself a, a legitimate n b a pro basketball player.

So I think that was a lot of, for him, is he really found. The value in being the best rebounder and being very, very good at having a high motor, being annoying to play against. And that’s what I thought he was incredible at.

[01:22:20] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, it’s, I mean, that’s a great example of a guy that you could maybe look at him from the outside and say, okay, as a college player, like, what, what do you mean this guy’s going to be a pro? And you find that niche and you excel in the niche. And I remember that’s what Procopio talked about. He’s like, we, we try to tell these guys who are second round picks or undrafted or guys who were trying to break in and get an opportunity, or guys who are the 11th or 12th man, it’s like it’s almost to the point where, hey, stop working on trying to be something that you’re probably never going to get an opportunity to be at this level.

And just figure out what are the one or two things that you do really, really well and make those things as good as you possibly can so that if you are. Coaching staff needs a guy who can do X, that you’re the first guy that they think of to give an opportunity to. And like I said, it’s always, it’s just, it’s interesting to me.

I had never thought about it in that way before I talked to him and, and now as I look at the entire basketball landscape, it just makes so much sense because again, no matter what level you’re playing at, 98, 95, whatever percentage you want to throw on it of players are guys who just are fitting a role.

And now maybe your role is to be a scorer, right? I mean, maybe your role is to be the team’s leading scorer, but even then, you still may not be the guy that just gets to be the LeBron James of your team and walk up and control everything and have the ball in your hands. Those guys are really few and far between.

And so I think. If you’re talking about advice for players out there, it’s like, look, you, you have to figure out what you do well and, and continue to work at that and do that. Because if you want to be recruited, I think you have to be able to stand out in a way like you described where, hey, what’s your one skill that separates you from everybody else?

What’s that one thing that your coach at the next level can depend upon you to do? And I think that’s just a really good way to look at it for sure. All right. I want to ask you one final two-part question when we’re coming up on an hour and a half. So part one, when you think ahead to the next year or two, what’s your biggest challenge?

And then part two, when you think about what you get to do every single day, when you wake up and think about, Hey, I’m the head men’s basketball coach at Salisbury University. What brings you the most joy? So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy, biggest challenge.

[01:24:44] Maurice Williams: I share with you how competitive I am and one thing that’s public that anybody could see with any coach, any program is win loss record. And man, like it fires me up to want our program to be where I believe it can be. But I knew when coming in, and this is not from me heard this from Tony Bennett. Sure. His father, Dick Bennett said it. It’s getting a group of guys that you can lose with first.

And somebody asked me the other day, now, if there’s one thing you could tell anybody when taking over a program, what would you say? And taking that, but saying it a little differently, don’t be afraid to lose first with fighting for what you believe and, and the types of things that you believe. And that’s where that word that you asked me rooted for this year.

Really came to life in my coaching because I really wanted, before we even worried about winning ball games, and whenever you walk past our gym, our arena, you never guessed if there was one of our players in there. If the ball was bouncing, you knew it was. And when I first got here, that was not the case.

And I just knew that’s, you can only get so far if your habits of doing that aren’t consistent, where now we’re there and, and it’s going to take time and time sucks. And, and that’s the challenge that I’m sharing with you is naturally as human beings, we don’t have patience.

We want things when we want them. I don’t regret sticking to what I share with you because I know we’ll be blessed with that reward for those that stay and, and that a foundation’s built so strong for those that come in. And I think that shared adversity takes you to a place, as I share with you my story, that you can’t go by yourself.

But I think the challenge for me is continuing to believe that, keep that as the main focus. And also being quiet. You know, like our, our lives are so noisy with things. So maintaining a quiet of what’s really important now, like being a Hall of Fame dad, like being an amazing husband, being a guy that got shared with you earlier graduation, where those guys are hugging you and you can tell it really means something.

But that challenge man, as I shared, is that fight of man, we have to achieve this outward success that, that others would need to see us successful. Where if we’re really focused on that rooted word, We’re already successful. It just hasn’t been shown and grown yet. And the second part of your question, biggest joy?

Biggest joy, man. I never feel like I’m working a day in my life. Like I really love when I’m doing, I love what I’m doing. I love, like this new word, a grind. I feel like grinds been like a word in like the last six years that’s been this thing grind to me. Just like grinding teeth. I never think of it as a grind.

Just, just like playing, like we were talking about playing a little bit. Like I never, I never really thought of it as a practice or, ah, I have to go beyond the grind. Like, I just, I thought we were going to go play basketball. Like, I just, we’re going to go get to play basketball today. And, and I kind of view it this, doing this the same way.

It’s not a grind. It’s fun. I enjoy it. And the biggest joy is being somewhere where I love what I’m doing. The place mirrors the type of success that I value. And I think we can get really good players here too. But the biggest joy is, is just being somewhere where, where I really enjoy it.

I never feel like I’m working a day in my life and every, every day that challenge being the standard I find is joy.

[01:29:08] Mike Klinzing: Well, I hope that stays that way for you, for the rest of your career. Cause I think anybody. Would attest to the fact that if you can wake up every day and not feel like you’re going to work and feel like I’m getting to do exactly what I want to do, there’s, there’s no better feeling than that without question.

So kudos to you for getting to that point in your career this early and, and being able to do that, and hopefully you’ll continue to be able to do that for the remainder of your career. Before we get out, Moe, I want you to share how people can reach out to you, get in contact with you, email, website, social media, whatever you feel comfortable with, and then after you do that, I will jump back in and we’ll wrap things up

[01:29:48] Maurice Williams:

Twitter it’s @CoachMoWill is my handle if you want to follow anything. As far as our basketball program, it’s @Salisburymbk. I don’t think I told you this man, but also working and finalizing a book. So that will be nice. Thank you that that will be officially done here.  I’m hoping by the end of June.

So in the final process of that, and I mean, my emails online as well, so if you want to check that out, it’s mlwilliams@salisbury.edu. But no, I love to talk to people. If you’re around, if you want to catch a practice, you’re always more than welcome. It’s called Dream. What’s the book? Your surroundings?

[01:30:38] Mike Klinzing: Well, it sounds like a second podcast episode, man. Whenever you want. Whenever you want to get on there, we can do it.

[01:30:45] Maurice Williams: I got a copy with your name on it too.

[01:30:48] Mike Klinzing: Sounds like a plan. Awesome. Hey, Mo, I can’t thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule to jump out with us tonight. Been a real pleasure getting to know a little bit more about you and your program at Salisbury.

Kudos to all the things you’ve been able to do to this point and to everyone out there. Thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.