TJ Rosene

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Twitter – @CoachTJRosene

TJ Rosene is the Director of Coach Development for PGC Basketball.  TJ is also the head coach of the Emmanuel College men’s basketball team. Along with a streak of 12 straight 20-win seasons, the Lions have won three NCCAA national championships and TJ has been named the National Coach of the Year three times. 

TJ co-hosts the Hardwood Hustle Podcast along with Sam Allen.  The Hardwood Hustle is a platform designed to educate, empower and encourage coaches, players and parents.

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Get ready for a great episode and make sure you are prepared to take some notes as you listen to my conversation with Coach TJ Rosene from Emmanuel College, PGC Basketball, and The Hardwood Hustle.

What We Discuss with TJ Rosene

5 Key Areas for Developing Your Coaching

  1. Player Development – The Physical and Mental Skill along with Habits
  2. Master Teaching – The Science and Art Behind Great Teaching
  3. Leadership – How to Lead Yourself, Your Staff, and Your Players
  4. Culture – How it all Comes Together both on and off the Court
  5. Systems and Strategies – Learn and Perfect the X’s and O’s of the Game

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[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason Sunkle this afternoon, but I am pleased to be joined by the director of coach development for PGC basketball, TJ Rosene TJ. Welcome back to the Hoop Heads Pod.

TJ Rosene: [00:00:13] Man. Excited to be here. Thanks for having me!

Mike Klinzing: [00:00:15] Number two. So, okay.  Glad to have you back as one of our double booked guests, we’ve had a few of those, so we’re glad to include you in that club today. What TJ and I are going to talk about is coach development and how coaches can improve their craft to become the best they can possibly be to serve their players, their community, their school, their program.

And most of all, to help themselves to have a more positive experience as a coach. So what we thought we would do is kind of go through some of the different areas that coaches tend to focus on areas that they may be looking for help in a lot of times, as we know, TJ coaches are maybe [00:01:00] strong in one area, but might need a little bit of support in another.

So we’re going to kind of walk through these key five areas that you guys have put together that you work on with coaches through your key five and PGC basketball. So let’s start with player development and how coaches can help with.

TJ Rosene: [00:01:19] Yeah, well it’s really interesting. I think a lot of time when we talk about player development, coaches think about things like, Oh, dribbling and shooting and you know, things like that.

But there’s a lot that goes into developing a player. And I think this is where a lot of coaches fall short, to be honest with you. I think that we think, well, if they’re better passers dribbling shooters, that we’re just going to be better players. We’re going to have a better team, but we really break player development down into five things.

And skills is one of those things there’s shooting, passing, ball control, finishing and defense. Like those are the skills and there’s others. And they’d kind of go into those groups, but that’s just [00:02:00] one of the five legs that we would say player development has. And then the second one is reads.

The third one is habits. The fourth is the physical development of a player. And the fifth is the mental development of a player. And I hear codes to say all the time, well the mental part of it, it’s 80% or the mental part of it. It’s 90%, but. We really probably just feed that like 1% or 2%.

And the holistic development of a player in player development is just going to make for a better player, which makes for a better team. And most of these areas don’t get served nearly the way the skills part of it does get served.

Mike Klinzing: [00:02:36] What does that look like? If I’m a coach, let’s just say I’m a high school coach and I’m trying to develop the mental skills that you’re talking about.

I’m trying to develop the habits. I’m trying to improve a players reads out on the floor in some of those different areas. What would that look like on the floor in a meeting room when I’m actually coaching and in front of my players?

TJ Rosene: [00:02:55] Yeah. You know, the one that’s kind of picked up steam over the last couple of years, [00:03:00] I think is reads, which is a good thing for the game of basketball.

You know, we start talking about gamifying things and a games approach to teaching basketball. You know, there’s tons of players that I’ve coached at the college level. That just couldn’t make reads. I mean, I’ve had guys that could do a three 60, put it between their legs and donkey. I mean, you name it and they’re super athletic.

And you know, I’ve had guys that can dribble three balls and all the other kind of crazy stuff that’s going on with players. But when it came to reading the defender, it was over and it that starts with just reading the person, guarding you. One of the things we talk about at PGC is can you beat one player?

Can you engage a second player? And can you see four? So it’s,  C4. And if you can beat one player and that’s a skill that I think we do work on a good bit, I think coaches do work on the first step and shop age and things like that. But what happens when you beat that person? You know, most of the time, if [00:04:00] you’re playing a good defense, you’re going to engage a second defender and that would be the health side or whatever, whoever might show up to help.

Then can you make the re can you make a right play? Can you jump, stop and pass the ball? Can you jump, stop and use a shot fake to get your own shot? You know, and I think we’re starting to pick up that more, like putting a little bit more of an emphasis on it, but not nearly enough because you know, every good team that you’re going to have to beat is gonna make you make reads.

And so no matter how good you can dribble it, shoot it. Um, teams can take you away. And so you’ve gotta be able to do things that lead to reads.

Mike Klinzing: [00:04:37] In your mind when you’re teaching that. So let’s say I’m putting the players in a game situation. Maybe it’s an advantage disadvantage drill. I’d go with three on three, or I’m playing out of a particular action.

And I’ve trying to work on my players reads obviously one of the things that we always talk about is the balance between how much do I stop, correct point out my point of view as a coach [00:05:00] versus how much do I let the players figure it out or ask them questions to get them thinking. So when you’re involved in a drill with your players and what you’re really focused on is having them make a read out of a particular action or particular scenario, how do you balance.

How often you stop that drill and explain maybe what you saw or what you thought they should’ve seen versus them explaining it back to you. If that makes sense.

TJ Rosene: [00:05:26] Yeah. I mean really good question. I think some of it is age, age appropriate, and I think some of it goes to like, where are you at in the season?

You know? I mean, I think this is a great thing, which I don’t see being worked on enough. Like during the off season, like to help players just work through making reeds and you don’t have to stop it a whole lot when you’re doing that. And if they make the same read wrong three times in a row you might want to stop and ask a question.

Now, when you get into the season and things are sped up and you have less time and there’s a game and you’ve got to manage bodies and all the different stuff that goes into that, [00:06:00] then you might not have as much time to ask as many questions. So I think some of that’s just being a really good teacher and knowing, but I think.

Another thing that I think is probably not done enough. And if you were to go to one of our PGC sessions, you would see us doing this at our finishing finishing sessions particularly, but really at any of our sessions is guided defenders. I mean, before you actually put the player and just say, go make a read if you can guide them through that, I’ll give you an example.

If a player was to drive the ball, we put a help defender there. And if they show up with the entire body jump, stop and kick it, if they show up with just a hand, we say, play through it. And so helping them to know, first of all, what they’re looking for, like having him have some success, doing it against guided defense, and then go into a live scenario.

Let’s just say it’s two on two on one side. And that defender now you’re trying to get a stop. They might help all the way they might dig in. They might not help at all. I don’t know what the defender’s going to do. But you could, even [00:07:00] before you go to that stuff, you could just tell the defender what to do, stand behind the offensive player and say a fist means get your whole body there.

And open fist means just jab at it. And if you give me nothing, then, then don’t help at all. And, and then the reads are a little bit more guided and you kind of work them through that. And then they advance. So I think progressing any drill, particularly read drills are really important. So it goes from just, Hey, do I have the skill to get a good first step?

And then do I have the skill to make a jump stop? And do I have the skill to finish? Well, when I have those skills down, well, then we can move on to putting some dummy defense on there. Then we can have a re defender, make some help reads, and then we can go live with it. And I think progress through that.

You’re going to see where a player is not adequate, and that’s what we should do as teachers is we should help the player to be a problem solver and identifying you might have one player that has all the skills, but just plays too fast to make the reads well, there’s what you need to help him on it.

He might have another player. That doesn’t have the [00:08:00] skills. You’ve got to go back to just giving them the skills to be able to beat somebody so they can get into a read. And then you might have somebody that’s a high level player and you can just breeze through all that stuff and go right into let’s just make live reads.

And so I think that’s on the teacher to see what the player needs.

Mike Klinzing: [00:08:16] I think when you look at it and you think about how basketball is often taught, especially in the summertime with a trainer. I think in a lot of cases, that’s. One kid one ball, one trainer. And then as you talked about, that’s teaching the skill in isolation and you’re eliminating the read.

So I would think that one of the big benefits of being at a PGC camp is the fact that you have a large group of kids that you can match up by skill level or size or whatever, and then put them in these types of scenarios, like you’re describing where they really are working on the reeds. Once they have, as you said, provided they have the, the skills that they need in order to be able to execute the, [00:09:00] you know, the basic movements

TJ Rosene: [00:09:00] Yeah. And we would take them through a similar progression. And we had also added in there, just here at Sea-Doo at a you and I are describing it. So coaches and players can hear it. Uh, one of the things we utilize a lot in our summer sessions is video to let them see players do it at a high level, both good examples and bad examples.

And you’d be shocked at how easy it is to find bad examples of players at the highest level of basketball. I mean, NBA players. That aren’t making good reads and they might have all the skill and athleticism in the world. But the difference in MBN, an elite player in the NBA and just making the league the price of admission to the league might be, I’m just skilled enough and I’m athletic enough, but I have all of that stuff.

But th the, the price to play or the price to be a really good players, I’m going to have to go beyond that. And so we, we show them video clips of all levels of basketball, making good reads and batteries. And then we head to the court and that we start working on that, starting with the skill building up to the Reed and [00:10:00] then, and then making it live.

And so they’re getting hit in all three directions.

Mike Klinzing: [00:10:04] How has your use of video changed over the last five to 10 years at PGC?

TJ Rosene: [00:10:09] Well I think that the, the interesting thing about it is I think we’ve been using video when it wasn’t cool. We’ve been using video for a long time. I mean, the creator of PDC dicta Tanzia was a brilliant, amazing guy.

I mean, he was one of the few players to ever turn down. John wooden went to play, to play at Duke. He was a point guard there. He was a master of the English language, graded explaining things. And he, he realized early on, cause he was a problem solver that like, Hey guys, early on. Cause he was a problem solver that like, Hey.

Maybe it will have 20 plus years. And, and what we’ve done over time is just really go down to a lot of times, like three set clips. Like we’ll show it once, so you can just watch it cause you have to train the eye of a player also. And then when you go to the next one, the second one will explain, this is what’s happening in this particular play.

And then the third [00:11:00] clip we’ll dive in, deeper into, Hey, what, what little nuances can we pick up here? What things did you see in this clip? And we’ll just slow it down and we’ll go through it. You know, usually each clip three times and with a different focus on each one of the clips that, and that’s one way that we’ve found utilizing with players is, has given great gains to them.

Mike Klinzing: [00:11:18] It’s so important, I think, to, to get them to think and to engage them and to just make sure that it’s not just you as the coach sharing information, but it’s a back and forth. It’s a give and take. You may have a focus that you want to have on a particular clip and a particular skill that you’re trying to teach.

But I think it’s so important. Like you mentioned to make sure that as you’re going through that there’s conversation, the conversation that you’re trying to just ensure that the player is getting what it is that you’re teaching and that, that back and forth so that when they do get out on the floor that they have a solid understanding before they try to go out and execute that read in a live action game.

Like you talked about, let’s talk a little bit about habits before we [00:12:00] go to the next category. Tell me a little bit about how you try to get players to think about habits and what. Areas of a player’s mindset. Is, is it best to work on for, in terms of habits?

TJ Rosene: [00:12:16] Yeah I mean, like I said, we spent a ton of time on habits and the mental aspect of it, because there’s, there’s offensive defensive habits that are particular to a team.

And we, we don’t spend a lot of time in summer sessions saying these are the offensive, defensive habits that you have to have, because to be honest with you, they’re going to go back to their coach and they’re going to have those habits already there, but. There are particular habits that are universal, that can help a player in any one of these things.

And those are the things we try and stick to and habits like communication. You know, that’s a habit that will serve you no matter what your coach teaches. We talk about the intangibles. We addictive NCO said the sixth and tangibles that every great player has, is shape S C H a P E.

[00:13:00] They have spirit communication, hustle, approach, precision, and enhancement. So we weave those into everything we’re teaching because we say all the time, it’s, it’s not always what you do. It’s how you do what you do. And if you go through any drill, I mean, for a player and you’re bringing spirit communication hustle, it’s going to look completely different than just doing a drill.

And if a coach is a really good teacher, They’re going to incorporate all of those things into it, or at least one or two of those things is going to be emphasized with what they’re doing. It’s not just going to be about, Hey, go do this drill, like special players do things different. And so we want them to understand that communication, the intangibles, your preparation, like those are all really important habits, as well as working on another one of the components, which is the mental aspect what’s your, your approach.

What’s your confidence, what’s your composure, your toughness or competitive greatness look like. And so and sometimes we just emphasize one because sometimes it’s overkill to [00:14:00] give them a let’s do all of these things. We try and build up over the course of the week so that a players well shaped at the end of the week that they’re bringing all of those things.

But we might just start with something like. Hey, can you bring spirit to everything we do today? And to be honest with you, if players bring spirits, everything you do, you’ve just put everything you do on steroids. I mean, you could just stop there but if you can get them to bring all five of those, you’re going to develop a pretty special player and a pretty special team.

Mike Klinzing: [00:14:27] I think what I love about it is that when you make players aware of it, it’s just like us as adults when we’re made aware of things that we probably intuitively know that may we may even look at it and say, Hey, that’s just common sense. Like if I bring these things, I’m going to be better. I’m going to have a better performance, but too often, we kind of just get caught up in our day to day routine or we’re a player.

And we’re just kind of going through the motions of a drill and. When a coach brings that themselves, and then they make the player aware of it. Like, Hey, we’re [00:15:00] looking for these two things today. It just makes to me, it makes such a difference because again, it just brings it to the forefront of your consciousness as opposed to yeah, I know it’s here, but I don’t always put it into practice.

Makes sense.

TJ Rosene: [00:15:12] Yeah. And you know, and my own college practices on our practice plans, we put out beside every drill that we do, what is the main emphasis? And I’ll just give you like a stupid one. I mean, if you were to do three man weave, if you say, listen, we’ll be done with three man weave when our spirit is a 10.

It looks completely different. And if we say, Hey, we’ll do three man weave with you know, when communication is a 10, then we’ll be done. We’ll do three man. We even say, Hey, when we see precision everything you do two hand catches, two hand passes all that kind of stuff is this precise will be done.

If you just put one letter to every drill that you do, all of them are going to get better. And a lot of times you can just change it throughout the week and the same [00:16:00] drill will look completely different, but the player knows what you’re looking for.

Mike Klinzing: [00:16:04] It’s funny, TJ is, as you were saying that, and you went through each one of those words, the vision of what that drill looked like, as you said, each one of those words to me became completely and utterly clear.

I mean, it was easy to, for me to picture in my head. All right. If the coach is looking for spirit, what does that look like? If the coach is looking for precision, what does that look like? And I had a very, very clear vision and I’m sure for the players, it’s the same thing, especially if they’re with you as a coach, somebody who.

Is emphasizing those things all the time and they already kind of have an idea of what those expectations are. Then when you refocus them directly on one particular drill, I got to imagine you get pretty good results.

TJ Rosene: [00:16:41] Yeah. I mean, I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it happen with my team and, and, and I think we’ve been really fortunate to be really good at decade of 20 wins or, or more.

And you know, with a sweet 16 division two level this year, just our third year in division two. And you know, if I w is, and you know, we have a lot of people come watch [00:17:00] our practice, high school, college NBA coaches, and they come looking for some magic drill. They come looking for some magic offense or defense and almost every single one of them leaves asking the same questions.

How do you get them to execute with that level of spirit or that level of communication or, or one of those things? Because once you see it, you realize that’s the difference. That’s, what’s actually making a special team.

Mike Klinzing: [00:17:26] And then you just hand them your magic wand. Right? And say, here you go, you guys are all set.

TJ Rosene: [00:17:31] To be honest, it’s the magic wand is caring about it and doing it every day. Yeah. I mean, I think most coaches probably demand spirit that first week of practice it’s who demands spirit the last week of practice and then even the best teams you’re going to coach, you don’t even have to demand it anymore.

That’s just who they are. It’s ingrained in them. And, and there’s work that goes into that. And I think that that scares some people because it’s like, well I got to get this ball to go in the [00:18:00] basket and I got to figure this out really quick. And so you start leaving your emphasis of those intangibles and things slip.

And before it, things are just going the wrong direction.

Mike Klinzing: [00:18:09] I think that’s really, really a challenge. I know I’ve found that in my own coaching that I’ll have something that I’ll get really excited about. I’ll really want to make sure that I emphasize and I’ll do it for a week or I’ll do it for two weeks.

But eventually I start moving on to that next thing or that new thing that I want to hit on. And then I let that previous concept that I had that was so important to me two weeks ago. I kind of let that slide. I think what you said is really, really important that if you could demand it. And expected and teach it right from the beginning.

And then continue to do that all throughout your season, all throughout a players career in the college level, four years of high school, however many years you might have a player. I think you’re going to end up with a ton of results. So let’s move to the category two, which I think probably this somewhat relates to that in terms of master, teaching the science and art behind teaching.

So if [00:19:00] I’m a coach, what do I need to know about the process of teaching in order to help me become the best coach I can be?

TJ Rosene: [00:19:08] Yeah. You know,and this is the big thing to know about these key five categories. I mean, we spent years developing these and, and the, the gist behind what we were doing is if a coach could do these five things, they got a chance to build a really special team.

And to be honest with you. If you just have one of these fall flat, you can be in a lot of trouble. And it’s really unfair. I mean, there’s a lot of times I just feel for coaches because I mean, think about all the things we have to be good at. I mean, we gotta be psychologists, we gotta be motivators. We gotta be teachers.

We got, I mean, the list goes on and on. And I was talking the other day with Sam Allen, one of our team members. And we were just talking about all that. He has coaches in his program, all these coaches we develop. And, and we were just saying even somebody like a doctor, I mean, they go to school for a long time to do one thing.

[00:20:00] Sure. You’d love them to have some bedside manner, but at the end of the day, you just want them to get the job done. Right. Right. Exactly. But that doesn’t cut it. That doesn’t cut it in coaching. You got to, to all of these things and you know, when we got to master teach and I’ll just quickly give you the five, I mean, the first thing is you have to be able to connect.

And the second thing is you have to be able to teach the third things. You have to be able to motivate. Four things. You have to be able to communicate in the fit things. You have to be a really good at correcting, and that could be through what you, you alluded to earlier. That could be through questions.

That can be a lot of different teaching methodologies, but I think the first one. Is the most important is, is connecting. You know, when you’re connected with your players, you’re going to be a better teacher. You know, the ceiling at that point, once you have connection is how good am I at teaching all of this stuff?

How knowledgeable and how much of I grow in myself. And that’s why I put so much of an emphasis on my own coaching. How much can I grow? Particularly every off season, because I know that their [00:21:00] ceiling is going to somewhat go only as high as I can teach. And and I know the teaching doesn’t even matter if I can’t connect.

I always use this analogy, but how many of us have ever had a brilliant math or science teacher, but there’s just no connection. There’s no energy. We just, we’re not motivated by them. And they just can’t connect the dots. And we’ve also all had the other type of teacher in school where it’s like, I don’t even really like this subject, but this teacher is so engaging and I connect with them so well that I learned.

Mike Klinzing: [00:21:28] That’s so true. And I think it always goes back to, I think about it a lot when it comes to the teaching profession. And when you think about who are the best teachers that you’ve ever had, and a lot of times now, when you think about how we evaluate teachers, we use standardized tests and we use those numbers to figure out whether or not this person is a good teacher, but yet if you ask 99% of our population, who’s the teacher that you remember.

It’s not the person that. [00:22:00] Taught you how to do calculus. It’s the person that connected with you. It’s the person that put their arm around you when your family pet died, or when you had something that went on, that was a little bit tough or you shared something with them. Like those are the teachers and the coaches that we really remember.

And so I think that connection piece, you’re a hundred percent right. That when we have that, it makes so many of these other things easier. And now it still doesn’t mean that you can teach whatever the technical skills and all those kinds of things, but it makes it easier to do because your players buy in your players believe in you and you believe in them.

So I think when I try to talk about connection, or when I think about coaches connecting with people, there are some coaches who just seem to have a very natural knack for connecting with players that you could watch them. And the moment they walk in the gym, like their guys are just. Or their girls are just engaged with them in whatever way you can just feel that connection.

[00:23:00] And then there’s other coaches where it’s maybe not as natural for them for whatever reason. So when you’re working with a coach and you’re talking about how to build connections, what are some things that you think coaches can do? And again, it’s not the magic wand or the tip that we’re talking about here, but just what are some things that you think are important for coaches to be able to build connections with their players?

TJ Rosene: [00:23:22] We were doing our podcast yesterday and we had a job gentleman who was uh, Australian Olympian three time medalist. And he does the disk with, with different teams and, and it’s the disc is a personality test for those people that aren’t familiar with it. And we do a lot of personality tests with our teams.

We do the disc five love languages. We do a lot of things. And why do we do those? We do those so that we understand what makes our players tick and the other thing. And the other reason we do it is to help us understand where we’re weak. And so for instance, if a coach really [00:24:00] wants to connect the way you connect and the way I connect is probably going to be different, but if we’re not really aware of ourself, It’s hard to know the things that are going to be our downfalls example is I’m a really high D which is a driver.

And I’ve had to work on this over my career because I’m always so focused on the mission. I’m not always as relational. I don’t always pause stop. Now, the last 15 years, I’ve spent a lot of time working on that. And one of the things we talk about in connection is just routine. And one of the things I do on my practice plan is I put two people on the front end of the practice plan and two people on the end of the practice plan.

And I try and go over there, fist bump ’em hug and put my arm around them and just talk to them about life. You know, like what’s going on now, if I just gave into my natural instincts, all that’s going through my head before practice is let’s get this job done, you know? And, and I, but I can’t do that or I won’t connect with them.

[00:25:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:25:00] I think again, it goes back to what we talked about a few minutes ago, it’s being intentional and putting those things right at the forefront of your mind, to your point, if you didn’t have those names on the practice plan. Yeah. You might fist bump a guy or you might go back and have a conversation, but it wouldn’t be necessarily every single day.

Cause there’ll be days where you’d be distracted or you’d be so focused on, Hey, we got to get this in. Or we got to work on this in order to prayer for this opponent. But instead by getting yourself to slow down and become conscious of what you’re doing, I think you just make yourself a lot more aware of what’s important, even though in the moment, it may not feel as important in the long run.

Those connections and relationships are really, what’s going to allow you to have success in those other areas that you might want to push in front of this connection and relationship piece.

TJ Rosene: [00:25:49] There’s three topics in connection that really stick out to me and. Uh, one is just authenticity.

Like, like I said, you and I are going to be different and we have [00:26:00] to be authentic as kids read right through that with we’re we’re just completely faking stuff. And we just, we ask them a question, but we’re not even listening. And you know, the next one is like seeking to understand. And I, this is another one that I battle is I think as coaches, a lot of times we just seek for them to understand us and what we want to get done, but we don’t spend a lot of time seeking to understand them.

And that’s why we do some of those personalities has it so that we better understand them and seeking to know them and who they are. And then the third one is to me, it is the most important one. And that’s just vulnerability. Like, can you be vulnerable with players? Can you get them to be vulnerable with you?

You see real authentic relationships happen where there’s vulnerability,

Mike Klinzing: [00:26:45] How do you get, I think you’re a hundred percent. Right. But how do you get. Players to connect with one another. What’s the best way that you found or some things that have worked for you over the years that have enabled players to connect.

And then like [00:27:00] when you’re in a camp setting, obviously kids are coming in from all over the country and they’re a lot of cases. Maybe they come with one buddy or maybe they come with a couple of teammates, but in a lot of cases they’re thrown in with a bunch of kids. They don’t know. So what do you do in a camp setting to get them to connect on that level?

And obviously you have a lot more time during your college season to be able to, to build those connections, but just what are some things that you do rather than player to coach, but player to player?

TJ Rosene: [00:27:24] Yeah. You know, the one that just jumped out at me, which we do at PGC sessions all the time. And this is a pillar of, of our team as well.

It’s just like, can you get people to celebrate other people? I mean, celebrating other people’s a universal language, like. Who doesn’t like to hear their name and who doesn’t like to hear a positive statement behind it. And so one of the things that we do, we do this. And I mean, even in our company at PGC, we start every single meeting with celebrations.

We sometimes celebrate people on the call. Sometimes we [00:28:00] celebrate things that are going on our own lives. Sometimes we celebrate somebody just within our department. I mean, there’s just, it goes on and on, but we never fail to start a conversation with celebrations. It always happens. And we do the same thing in summer sessions is where we get players to get comfortable.

Celebrating other people, and that can be fist bumps. That could be high fives. And that’s also oftentimes verbal. And people start to drop their guard a little bit where they feel like you’re for them. And so we really like people to know that we’re for them. And we want players to know that therefore their teammates and w when a player believes that your forum, they’re just much more likely to be vulnerable and open up to you.

Mike Klinzing: [00:28:42] And when they open up and then you get to know some things about them that maybe you wouldn’t be able to learn, otherwise we can then help you to better connect with them, better, be able to coach them better, understand how to motivate them. I think all those things play together. Again, when you are thinking about them [00:29:00] actively, when you’re intentional about doing them, it just makes it so much more, I think, effective than when you’re trying to do things haphazardly.

All right. Let’s move to the third category leadership. When we’re talking about leadership, we can have different categories. Again, you can be leading yourself, you can be leading the coaches that are part of your staff and you can be leading your players. How do you think about leadership as the head coach of a college program?

TJ Rosene: [00:29:25] Well, you know, one of the things I think about it, all these things that we’ve talked about in leadership is the very first component of leadership is lead yourself. Well and when I think about my team or I think about a summer session at a summer session, one of the things that we see happen is that kids get so isolated.

We talk about personal isolation devices, like on their phones. And we really want to bring kids out of that and we really want them to engage in the experience. And so. To be honest with you. The first five to six hours, even [00:30:00] really the first day of a PGC session is just really setting the table. And it can seem really slow because players are breaking old habits where they don’t have to do this.

And then you see by day two, it picks up by day three. It’s on fire. And by day four, man, it just moves you because players have, we’ve created an environment where players are just celebrating love in each other for each other out of their own little world. And I think that starts with the leader of each session where they show the way.

Where they spent continuous time celebrating the people that are working with us, celebrating the athletes. And you know, if you can’t first do these things yourself, like if you just can’t lead yourself, well, you can’t be the example. I love John Maxwell leaders, don’t only go though our show the way they go the way.

And I think that’s really important is like before you start demanding stuff of other people, are you doing it yourself? And so leadership really [00:31:00] begins with how well do you lead yourself? And this is, this is those people that have self-awareness. This is people that have a purpose. This is people that are growth mindset.

This is people that are accountable and if you’re doing those things, you got a purpose and you’re aware, and you’ve got a growth mindset you’re accountable, but you’re probably leading yourself pretty well. And if you can instill that in players, I mean, how many of us would love to coach a player that has a purpose.

How many of us would love to coach a player that has awareness. I mean, most players think they should play 32 minutes, even when they’re the 15, 15 player on the bench, right? Like we would love for them to have awareness. We’d love for them to have a growth mindset, not think that they know it all. We’d love for a player to be accountable.

You asked how we do that with our team. Like we have one saying that we start from the very, again, that permitted permeates everything that we do. It’s just, it’s always the fault of the better player. And, and so like, I throw you a pass and you don’t catch it. I’m like, come on, catch the [00:32:00] ball. One of the first things you’ll hear me say is obviously you think they’re the better player and no coach.

No, I don’t. What do you mean? You know, then players start saying I threw a pass and they didn’t catch it. I should’ve thrown a better pass. Even if it was the other person’s fault, they just take the highest level of accountability. They possibly can. One thing that we put into our practice, this is called  out of bounds.

The creator of PGC, Dick DeVenzio says if you throw a ball and it goes out of bounds and it’s tipped, or you throw a ball that gets kicked or something like that, it always goes to the defense. And why does it always go to the defense accountability? Because you need to make a better pass. It doesn’t matter if they tipped it and it went out of bounds.

You need to have a higher level of expectation for yourself that you’re going to throw passes. That don’t get tipped. Oh, they kick the ball. That would be our ball. No, don’t throw balls. They can kick, throw better passes and just high level of accountability. We really want players to do that in our summer sessions.

We’re teaching players. You know, we spent a [00:33:00] lot of time teaching the sch a and P and the approach part of that, the a it’s it’s this it’s accountability. It’s leading yourself.

Mike Klinzing: [00:33:10] What does that look like for, let’s say one of your camp directors when they’re leading themselves, what are some behaviors that they exhibit that helped to foster the kind of climate that you’re talking about accountability?

TJ Rosene: [00:33:25] You know, like I saying that I made a mistake there I, I messed up, I’m tucking my shirt in you know, making sure I pick up all the trash around me, making sure I take somebody else’s plate to the trash. Like like it just do all of those things that you’re going to ask everybody else to do.

Cause we’re trying to make special players there. And if you’re not first doing that stuff you can say, Hey, everybody needs to pick up their trash, you know? Well, go the way you’d be the one that’s most [00:34:00] accountable for that. You shouldn’t even have to say it. They should look around and say, you know what?

These are the leaders of this session. Look at them picking up trash, look at them, pushing in chairs. Look at that. I mean, that’s the expectation. We have really special people that work for us at PGC. And these are the kinds of things that they’re doing on a daily basis.

Mike Klinzing: [00:34:17] When you talk about that, I always come back to the phrase and I’m probably going to butcher it, but something to the effect of kids, players, can’t hear what you’re saying, because what you’re doing is so loud.

And that obviously cuts both ways. Where if you’re talking about a guy who again, is saying something that then they’re not living up to it, it doesn’t matter what you’re saying. If. Kids and players are seeing you do the exact opposite if you want people to be on time. And then you’re rolling in two minutes before practice starts, it’s clear that the players are seeing what it is that you value, despite whatever it is that you’re actually saying.

And I think that’s really, really a key component of, of leadership is making sure that not only are you talking the talk, but you [00:35:00] have to walk the walk and once you do it makes it a lot easier to get everybody else to fall to fall in line.

TJ Rosene: [00:35:09] Yeah, I was just going to add and coaches, if we’re being honest, aren’t really good at this.

You know, one of the things that I talk about all the time is I will tell players, like, don’t be late, be early 15 minutes early. We’ll do all these things because we want them to respect our time and the team’s time. But then we won’t tell them when we’re practicing this week until the last minute.

So we don’t respect their time with their girlfriend or boyfriend or with their family or with things like that. And we expect them to respect our time, but we don’t always respect their time. And those just little things like that. We’re not even really aware of that. We’re doing a lot of times.

Mike Klinzing: [00:35:44] That is so true. I’ll give you a really good example of that. So when I first started my teaching and coaching career back a long time ago, so this is like maybe 1995 was my first year of teaching. And at that time I was the varsity assistant coach and our entire coaching [00:36:00] staff was young and we didn’t really have anywhere to be after practice.

And there would be times where whatever, we’d say practices after school at two 30, but there was no ending time. And we would sometimes go, I mean, I honestly remember TJ going like three and a half hours. And I look back on that now. And I’m like, what, what were we getting out of those kids after the first hour and a half?

I mean, we were probably, we were probably getting next to nothing. But just from a basketball standpoint, but then you think about it. And again, this I wasn’t a parent at the time. And so you had no understanding of what it is to have a family and have responsibilities and multiple kids and places that kids have to be and all these different things.

And now you think about it as a parent. And if my kids read a practice where it was after school, and I didn’t know if it was going to end at four o’clock or it was going to end at six o’clock. I mean, that would be a nightmare and a disaster for me as a family. And so I think it’s a great point that you make that as coaches, if we want those things from our players, then we have [00:37:00] to give them that same thing.

And then we have to hold ourselves to that. Despite the fact that, Oh, maybe we, maybe we need to go, or maybe we want to go an extra 20 minutes here, but we already talked about that. This is when our time is going to end. And it’s, it’s not always easy to do that as a coach. But I think if, to your point, if you’re going to really garner your players respect, and you’re gonna get them to do the things that you want to do, then you have to take that leadership role and make sure you’re doing the same thing when you have an opportunity to treat them with respect.

TJ Rosene: [00:37:30] Great example, great example.

Mike Klinzing: [00:37:32] All right, culture. Let’s talk a little bit about how, when we talk culture, we all know what we want our culture to look like. On the basketball floor and everybody has a slightly different things that maybe standards that they want to focus on, but it’s culture is kind of like one of those things where I know a good culture when I see it.

What about off the floor? How do you talk about, especially at camp or with your players? How do you talk about how to conduct yourself off the basketball [00:38:00] floor as a part of a greater culture? Yeah.

TJ Rosene: [00:38:03] You know, just give you an example. Coaches can use this with their teams. We use this at a PGC session all the time.

I use this with my team the first day of the season, every single year. And we asked players to just close your eyes for a second and think of the most special player you’ve ever been around. You think about a player that coaches love coaching. Teammates just want to play with, they just love being on the same team with them that the teachers love teaching and parents rave about just think of a really special athlete.

Maybe it’s the middle linebacker or the softball shortstop. I don’t know, just the most special athlete you’ve ever been around and have my players go through that, close their eyes. And I drag it out a little bit longer than that. But then I say now, and now, if you thought of that player, think of two or three words you would use to describe them, give them another minute or two.

And then I turned to the white board and I got a dry erase marker. And I said, give me those words. And they say [00:39:00] accountable hustle you know, caring heart just, they go with all these words that are just. The the things that make us special teammate and a special player. And we’re trying to enroll people in a vision.

Cause the first component of building a culture is vision and values. Like what are those going to be? It goes way farther when they’re enrolled in the process. So they give me 30 words and they’re all up on the board work ethic and gratitude and E it, no one ever says four, four 40, no one ever, no one ever says benches 300 pounds.

Right. And so I got these 30 words up there and I take a picture of it and I asked them, I said, listen, is there any of these words that you couldn’t be in a work ethic, gap, gratitude or whatever. Is there any of these words that you couldn’t be, every player looks up and I said, tell me the ones that you are not possibly capable of being.

And everyone’s like, well, I could be that. I mean, I could show up on time. I could work hard. I [00:40:00] could show gratitude. I could do all of those things. Okay. If you’re capable of doing all of those things. Would you be okay with me as a coach holding you to all of these things, if you would be okay with that, raise your hand.

And every hand in the, in the, in the classroom goes up and absolutely like I would, I be willing to be those things. And to be honest with you, if that’s all you did the rest of the season was them to those words, you would have some pretty special people and some pretty special players, and you didn’t tell them who they had to be.

They told you who they wanted to be. And it’s a whole different mindset when you come alongside players and you’re holding them to greatness, they chose versus you telling them who they have to be. And so I’m not a huge fan of saying here’s our five pillars, and this is what you’re going to do because that’s, top-down driven.

You don’t have a lot of buy-in to that. It’s just what you’re saying. And it falls flat, but when they’ve chosen and we have ways of doing that, [00:41:00] motto has a great retreat that he does with teams. And we share that with, with our coaches. And, but if you just did that right there and you just held them to those things and I take a picture of it, I laminate it and I’ll go back into practice and say, Hey, you told me that gratitude was that of a special player.

And right now, like you don’t seem the least bit thankful you’re not approaching approaching practice with gratitude. You act like you don’t want to be here. Look, are you still committed to doing all these things? Yeah, coach, I am. Okay, well, let’s get back at it and let’s, let’s do this because I want us to be special.

And, and, and that whole approach of I’m here to take you where you want to go versus go where I want you to go. You’re going to get a lot more buy-in.

Mike Klinzing: [00:41:45] It’s kind of amazing when you think about it. And there’s obviously variations of what you just did. I’ve done one where I’ll take my little, I’ve coached all my kids in like elementary school, travel basketball.

And I’ve done [00:42:00] this with every single group where you. Send them into break them down into maybe two or three groups. You send them away. You say, Hey, what does it mean to be a great teammate? List me some characteristics, write those down on a piece of paper. So each group kind of just same thing that you described.

They go away, they write down those things on the piece of paper, they come back. A lot of times, there’s a lot of things that overlap and we look for five or six of them that we can hold you accountable to. And we’ll just, like you said, laminate it, we put it in a notebook, sometimes make copies. So everybody has it.

And then we’ll pick one of those words as a focus for a particular practice or we’ll take a week and we’ll say, all right, this week, we’re going to focus on this particular characteristic that we talked about. And it’s funny that just like your college players, just like kids, I’m sure at camp, just like fifth grade girls who are on.

A travel basketball team. We can all come up with those words that we know are what makes an athlete [00:43:00] successful. And yet how many of our players constantly live up to those things? Or how many of us constantly in our lives live up to those things, even though we know that’s what we, what we should be doing.

And I think it speaks to everything that we’ve talked about so far, which is if you bubble those things up to the forefront of our mind, it becomes a lot easier for us to live up to it rather than as a coach. We’re like. Well, how come they’re not accountable? How come they don’t work hard? How come they’re not bringing energy?

It seems like that should just be a given. But you and I both know that all those things, even though it seems like it should be a given, it’s definitelynot.

TJ Rosene: [00:43:35] Yeah. You know, absolutely. You’re 100%. Right. And I think we talked about earlier, the consistency of these things I think a lot of people love doing this team building stuff at the beginning of the year or whatever it might be.

And then we quickly fade from it. There’s two parts of culture that I think just don’t get enough attention. You know, culture is a buzz word. Everybody talks about it, but the two parts that don’t get. [00:44:00] Enough attention or consistency, because I really think almost every team in the country does something in the beginning to try and build culture.

And I just don’t think everybody sticks with it. And, and by the way, there’s a difference between team building and culture. So going out to pizza and bowling and all that that’s team building, and that’s good stuff, there’s nothing wrong with that, but that’s not actually what culture is culture is that the little things that happen every day to the conversations that go on within your program and outside of your program and culture is really seen in those little things.

But the other part is the second thing that doesn’t ever get enough attention is conflict and adversity. Like. I, I I’ve had a chance to win three national championships and it, all of those things, we had major adversity during the year. And I think as soon as we hit adversity, we look at it like, Oh, our culture’s not going well.

And that’s not true at all. I mean, you can guarantee that any team you coach is going to have adversity. It’s the teams that know how to get through conflict and adversity [00:45:00] and turn it in their favor, that build really special cultures. And so that’s honestly my favorite one to talk about because I just think it’s the thing that Hey, we had such fun eating pizza and bowl and everybody’s happy.

And then all of a sudden you play a game and four kids don’t get in. And three kids don’t play as much as they thought. And your culture goes to crap. Well, look, you got to prepare and you’ve got to plan for conflict and adversity.

Mike Klinzing: [00:45:25] And nobody, well, I shouldn’t say nobody. There are some people that enjoy conflict, but a large majority of people do not enjoy those client conflicts.

They don’t enjoy having those difficult conversations. Those are difficult conversations, whether it’s player to coach, whether it’s player, to player, whether it’s player, to parent dealing with that, the whole issue and how you make sure that you figure out that you get parents on board and make sure they understand what it is that the reasons why kids play and why they don’t play and what those expectations are.

But how do you help your players to deal with conflict? What are some things that you [00:46:00] do to get them? I dunno. Do you practice difficult conversations before they come up in real life? How do you go about doing that?

TJ Rosene: [00:46:05] Yeah, the first thing I think exactly right. The first thing we do is we let them know that it’s coming.

You know, like in, in the off season this year, we had a couple of weeks before summer break and we had our team go through putting down who would the, their starting point guard coming back, the two to three to four and the five, how much time do you think each person would play? Because we have a lot of people returning I mean, one thing I’m really proud of and a transfer culture, we didn’t have any players that wanted to transfer and everybody wanted to return it, including a first team, all American that could, could go to major D ones and everybody chose to return.

And we’re going to have along with the people we’re signing, we’re going to have some time issues playing time is going to be a big part of conflict and adversity for us next year. So we started talking about it in the spring and we’re going to talk about it right when we get back to school.

And then when it comes, we’ve had this [00:47:00] conversation, like we’ve been dealing with this before, whatever got there, but then when it gets there my big, the thing on conflict and diversity is courageous conversations. I mean, Nobody likes conflict and adversity. But to be honest with you, that’s where specialness happens.

Like if you’re going to develop a special team, if you’re going to change a kid’s life, most of the time, it happens in conflict and adversity and helping people through it. And I like for, for a player that is going to have a play in time issue, like they need to know how to handle that. Like, it’s my responsibility to go talk to the coach.

Like I really need to bring this to them. And as coaches, we have to be willing to let our players talk to us about us. And we should be glad that they’re unhappy with their playing time. They want to play more. They want to do better. It’s not a bad thing that they want to play more. We just, we need to be real with them.

We need to be the people in the lives that tell them the truth, but we need to honor the conversation. We need to thank them for coming to talk to us. They [00:48:00] did a mature thing. They’re handling this the right way. And from a coach standpoint, No. I mean, how many coaches sit on their stress about, am I doing a good job?

Does my principal liked me? Does my Ady like me? You know, we spend all this time, sleepless nights worried about that. Am I going to keep my job? Am I not? Look, you should do the same thing. Go to your athletic director, go to your principal and say, Hey, listen, I really liked my job. And I’m unsure where I stand.

Can you tell me how I’m doing? Are you happy with the job I’m doing? What can I improve in rather than sit there and stress yourself out over four months? What’s the worst thing they’re going to happen. They’re going to tell you you’re doing a horrible job. I’m in a fire, right? Well, wouldn’t, you rather know that three months in advance, then, then, then drop it on you one day when you had no time to prepare like those courageous conversations, don’t always get the words you want, but they give you clarity.

And when somebody has clarity, they have the ability to be fearless and attacking the things that they want to attack. So I encourage people to have hard conversations they’ll swallow the [00:49:00] frog I mean, just do something hard, but one of the things that. You might’ve seen this on social media, mano lives up in Ontario, Toronto, where it’s freezing cold and he takes ice baths out the, yeah, I saw the video.

Mike Klinzing: [00:49:13] That’s a good, that’s a good video. If anybody’s had it, haven’t seen it. Make sure you go on and check that out.

TJ Rosene: [00:49:18] And why does he do that? Just to do hard things, just to do something that’s hard. And one of my goals is to have a courageous conversation every day. One that I know I should have with a star player, with somebody that’s unhappy a player that’s unrealistic, my wife, my children to have a courageous conversation and, and I don’t have 365 of them, but I bet I have 250 of them a year.

And, and I just dive into doing that hard thing and I’m always so glad I did. I mean, it, it just, it just really helps. I mean, most things fall and fail on communication, whether it’s player to player, relationship, player, to coach relationship, or whether it’s a marriage relationship. [00:50:00] But if you’re constantly having courageous conversations, you’re likely to have good communication.

You’re likely to work through a lot of things.

Mike Klinzing: [00:50:07] I think you’re a hundred percent, right. I think that one thing that always helped me in this area, and I learned this from a young age, for whatever reason, when I was in elementary school, I had teachers that like to assign assignments where you had to give speeches and you had to stand up in front of the class.

And I remember being really young, probably third or fourth grade, and having to give these speeches. And there would be times where. I’d be sitting and I’d be the sixth person to go, or the seventh person to go, or the eighth person to go. And that time watching those first five or six speeches was excruciating.

You’re sitting there, you’re nervous. I don’t want to get up in front of people and talk and this and that. And eventually I learned that whenever there was an opportunity to volunteer to go first, I was always that person that, Hey, I’m going to [00:51:00] go first and I’m going to get up there and I’m going to do it and do what I do.

And then after I’m done, I could sit back and relax and enjoy all of those other speeches. And these courageous conversations that you’re talking about. I think about it with a player, or I think about it talking with the principal or talking with an athletic director you’re right. That if you’re sitting there and you’re stewing about that and you’re worrying about it and you’re tossing and turning at night for weeks on end, because you don’t know where you stand and you’re nervous about it.

Imagine if you went in and the person said, Hey, you’re doing a great job, but here’s two things I think you can work on. How much better would you feel after that one, you would know that your job in that case, wasn’t in jeopardy and you would also then have an opportunity to grow in a couple of areas to make yourself better in their eyes, but also to improve yourself as a coach was going to get you better results, which is going to reduce your stress on so many other levels too.

I think it’s just, it’s hard to get people to do that sometimes. But I think that if you really think about examples where [00:52:00] you are proactive in your communication, things always, always turn out better when you’re proactive.

TJ Rosene: [00:52:07] Yeah, absolutely. And great analogy. You know, it, look, I hate public speaking. I do it all the time.

I travel around the country and the world doing public speaking all the time and I hate it, but it’s one of those things that over time I’ve learned to embrace and it’s made me better. It’s made me a better coach, has maybe a better person having to do that. And we all have to embrace things that we don’t like.

And it, a lot of times courageous conversations falls directly in that category. Couldn’t agree more.

Mike Klinzing: [00:52:35] All right. Let’s move on to category number five systems and strategies. This is probably an area that coaches, coaches probably love more than any, I would guess is diving into the X’s and O’s most coaches that I know of really enjoy this piece of it.

It’s one of the reasons why they get into coaching in the first place. So talk a little bit about your belief system behind how you put together your systems and strategies for X’s and O’s and not what you help coach.

[00:53:00] TJ Rosene: [00:53:00] Yeah. Well, the first thing is there’s a lot of ways to skin a cat and so what we don’t do is tell people you need to do this, run, this offense, run this defense, because there’s just a lot of good offense, a lot of defense, good defense out there.

And so the key is fitting your personnel and the five components are team or offense, team defense, special situations, effective practices in game coaching. Like you got to get good in those five areas. If you want to be good in systems and strategies and. Everyone’s going to go about deciding that differently.

But the most important thing is to what’s going to serve my players the most. And you know, there’s a show we could just dive into a hundred things here, but you know, I think about it, like when I think about systems and strategies, and you’ve got to ask yourself some questions what can my players do?

What can I teach really well? Um, I love Don Myers saying I had, Donmar had mentored me towards the end of his life. And I remember when he said it after his car accident, if I’d had a team, I [00:54:00] would just be really simple sound and solid. Like I just want to go back to it and it’d be simple sound and solid.

And generally that’s, my philosophy is like, be good at a few things because the biggest mistake I see made in systems and strategies, coaches trying to be great at everything. And that just doesn’t happen. I mean, rarely is a team. Great on offense. Great on defense, great rebounded the ball, great great inbounds underneath great at all of those things.

And so you need to be adequate and all of those things, but you also need to be great in a few things. And sometimes we spread ourselves a little thin and systems and strategies you lean into.

Mike Klinzing: [00:54:34] Once you get to know your team and your players, and you figure out that, Hey, we’re really good defensively, but maybe offensively, we’re not as smooth as I would have liked.

Do you dive into and spend more time accentuating your strengths or do you try to bring your weaknesses? I mean, obviously there’s a level that you have to get to in order to be adequate, but I guess the point here is, is do you [00:55:00] spend more time? Doubling down on your strengths or trying to improve and eliminate your weaknesses.

TJ Rosene: [00:55:06] You know, I would lean towards the whole hedgehog theory a good to great it’s a great book, but I think that I I’d rather be great and something than just be good at a lot of things. And so I would lean towards picking on the things that we’re really good at and becoming great, but a lot of that goes back to like, what will help you win the most?

And so an example of that would be like on the defensive end. Like let’s just say that we can’t score the ball. You could go two directions with that. You know what? We have to hold people to under 40% on shots, or it could be that we’re going to get up and generate off fence VR defense. I don’t know what the right answer is different for every team, but I would, if that was my strength, I would take that strength and figure out how it’s going to help me on the other end help hide some of the deficiencies I have on the other end.

Mike Klinzing: [00:55:58] How do you help [00:56:00] teams? If you were gonna sit down and you watch you watch a teams practice, or you’re consulting with a coach about, Hey, what kind of system is going to work best for me? And you can pick it off offensively defensively, but just what are some things that if I’m a coach I should be looking for.

In my team, that’s going to help me to figure out what kind of system I want to play. And I know there’s a million different answers you could give, but just kind of give us an idea of how you guys help in key five, help coaches identify what they should be spending their time teaching.

TJ Rosene: [00:56:31] One of the things when you’re picking system and strategy.

And what you’re going to run that I think is really important is look, can I, can I win my league, my conference, my region, whatever it is, be in a fast ball. Meaning like if I go do these things and I’m pretty straightforward, is that going to be good enough? Or do I have to be a complete curve ball and this league?

And one of my things, one of the teams I love is Virginia and Tony Bennett. And I think this is a major mistake made at the highest levels of basketball. I think people [00:57:00] take these jobs. And the ACC and they try and be Duke and Carolina and what’s going to happen is you’re not going to be Duke and you’re not gonna be Caroline.

Cause you’re not going to get the players they get. And so they do everything similar. They they run, they do this all offense. They shoot it quick. They, whatever it might be, they do those things and expect results out of that. But what happens is they fall 10 points short on a regular basis because they’re trying to be who everybody else is.

And then there’s this guy, Tony Bennett, who comes into the ACC and says, you know what, we’re not going to be like anybody else. We’re going to be completely different. And we’re going to be patient. We’re going to drag you through the mud on defense. And they do this. And there are a complete curve ball in the ACC and year after year, they’re right there with a chance to win it.

And so that is a pretty common starting point I would give for coaches is. How much of a curve ball do I need to be good? And then if you have the chance to be really good without being a complete curve ball, then why mess with it? Why not just be great at those things? And a lot [00:58:00] of times, sometimes we just choose to be a curve ball because we want to be a curve ball, or we just choose to be a fast ball because we want to be a fast ball, but we really need to take a a lay of the land and see, gosh, what would serve this team the best?

What would give them the best shot to be successful?

Mike Klinzing: [00:58:14] Yeah, I think that’s interesting when, when I think about what you just said, and as you were describing Tony Bennett in Virginia, I think about an example from my childhood, the Cleveland state Vikings right here from Cleveland, Ohio back in 1986, when they beat Indiana and they’ve made it all the way to the final eight and lost to David Robinson and the Naval Academy and Kevin Mackey, who was the coach here at the time.

And I was, I believe a sophomore, I think in high school that year. And. He played 10 or 12 guys, they ran a diamond press nonstop. He just constantly subbed five guys in and out. He always had fresh bodies on the floor and they just got up and down and got up and down and pressed and it was just relentless.

And there weren’t that many schools play in that way. [00:59:00] And so when a team has to prepare for that, I mean if you’re playing a team that has a style, whether it’s offensively or defensively, that is unique, it’s much more difficult to prepare for because you can’t put your scout team and have it even remotely resemble what it is that you’re going to face.

If you’re facing the team that is pressing and that’s all they do, you just, you just can’t duplicate that with their scout team. And obviously there’s lots of other systems that you could say the same thing for, but I just think about that team. And just again, what made them so good was they were unique.

They also had a lot of good talent on the team, but they were different. And I think that’s what allowed them to succeed and get as far as they did when they were. Just again, a mid-major Cleveland state, nobody had ever heard of the Cleveland State Vikings back before that 1986 kind of put them on the map.

And so it’s interesting. I think of that Zig when everybody else is zagging and that can, that can give you an advantage simply because you become a lot harder to prepare for, because teams just don’t see what it is that [01:00:00] you’re doing all the time.

TJ Rosene: [01:00:00] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s a great example. When you see a lot of these mid-majors have success.

You see a lot of that. I mean, you just see them doing things different. I mean, I think Loyola, Chicago is a good example. Uh, and the way they played the game, they multiple times Butler was a good example. They’ve multiple times had success in the tournament and they didn’t do things the way everybody else did.

And, and, and when you do it, like everybody else does and they have better players, you could be in trouble.

Mike Klinzing: [01:00:25] Exactly. That is that there’s, there’s no truer words and coaching spoken than those. I’ll tell you what, that is a hundred percent sure. I, TJ, before we wrap up, please, I want you to share how people can find out more about PGC, where they can get signed up for this summers camp sessions, where they can get signed up for key five, just go through the whole litany of places where people can engage with you guys at PGC.

TJ Rosene: [01:00:50] Yeah. PGC and that’s for coaches and players. So if you got time during the summer, To get to a session you’re going to want [01:01:00] to, I mean, I’ll be honest with you. It was probably the most influential thing that ever happened in my life. When Rick torbah creator a better basketball said, Hey, I got this friend mano Wazza, this was over a decade ago.

You should go check out a PGC session. I called my wife and said, Hey, I’m going to go down here for a couple hours. I called her back and said, Hey, I’m the stay for the night? And then I called her back and said, Hey, I’m going to stay for the week. I just kept getting nuggets. And so it’s just a players we’re not there to teach different things than coaches are there.

We’re there to help your players come back to you better. And check that and you got a lot of exciting things coming on at key five, You can check that out, but. You can also check that We are merging better basketball and key five into one thing.

And our mission through all of the stuff we do is to be a light in the basketball world. And PGC coaching is, is meant to do that. We’ve got our clinics coming in the fall for coaches that they can attend. So coaches come check out a summer session, come to one of our coaching clinics, [01:02:00] check out our we have a library of stuff and, and key five or PGC coaching that you can just I mean, a litany of stuff to make coaches better.

And we try and mentor coaches. We do live calls all the time, question and answer, but you know, those things, social media, PGC, If I can help yet coach TJ Rozine be glad to help you as well, but you know, Yeah, look, if you spend some time with us and it doesn’t help you, then I think that it would be one of those things where it’s like, I’d be shocked because it has helped me so much in my career and really focusing from a place of being the right kind of player and being a transformational coach.

And if you’re looking to be more than just an X’s and O’s coach, or you’re looking for players to come back to you special that, that’s what we’re really trying to create.

Mike Klinzing: [01:02:49] I think so much of what you guys do aligns with the mission and the message that we’ve tried to get out through our podcast.

And just, I [01:03:00] just think that if you’re a coach out there, if you’re a player out there and you have an opportunity to engage with PGC basketball from just simply going on the website and looking at all the great free content that they have, it’s just. That you could, you could spend weeks and weeks and weeks on there and still not be able to gather in everything that’s there.

And then you start talking about going to a camp session, going to participate in a coaching clinic. We’ve been fortunate enough here on the hoop heads pod to have TJ on twice. Uh, we had Tyler costed on a couple of weeks ago, and he talked about transforming youth basketball. If you haven’t gotten a chance to listen to that episode, Tyler was incredible on that.

And then of course, we’ve had Moto on as well to tell the story of just how PGC came to be addictive NCO and how he got involved in his camps, in his backyard and how he got everything started. So it’s just, it’s an amazing story. It’s an amazing basketball group of people, of people who care about the game of basketball and want to help you improve and want to help you get better.

Regardless of whether you’re a player, you’re a coach, [01:04:00] whether you’re their parent of a player and you’re looking for a way to help your child improve, whether you’re an athletic director, looking for a place to send your coaches to help them to. Improve their coaching. I just think there’s no better place to do that than PGC basketball.

And again, TJ can’t thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule today to jump on with us.

TJ Rosene: [01:04:19] Yeah, absolutely. My dad was a 30 year high school coach. He said, be good to the game and the game will be good to you. And as coaches and as players, we’re all in this together for the good of the game and to help people be better people through the game of basketball.

So thanks for having me on and being able to just talk to coaches and I love coaches and I, I just have as the head that wears the crown, they just, they just have such a huge job in society. And I’m thankful for each one of them.

Mike Klinzing: [01:04:44] Absolutely. There’s no greater joy than being able to influence and impact people using something that we love to do, which is the game of basketball.

And I think that’s the mission of PGC Basketball and it’s certainly the mission of what we’re trying to do with the Hoop Heads Pod. So TJ again, [01:05:00] thanks for your time today. Really appreciate it. And to everyone out there, thanks for listening. And we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.

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