“THE TRIPLE DOUBLE” #13 WITH ROB BROST, BOLINGBROOK (IL) HIGH SCHOOL BOYS’ BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 1013
Website – https://il.8to18.com/bolingbrook/athletics/basketball/b/v
Email – raidershoops@comcast.net
Twitter – @BrookHoops
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The 13th episode of “The Triple Double” with Rob Brost, Bolingbrook (IL) High School Boys’ Basketball Head Coach. Rob, Mike, & Jason hit on three basketball topics in each episode of “The Triple Double”.
- Getting done what you need to get done and how that impacts the length of practice
- When, where, how, and why to use music in your practices
- Most overrated and underrated in-game coaching skills and decisions
On this episode, Mike and Jason welcome back Rob Brost, head boys basketball coach at Bolingbrook High School. They discuss various aspects of coaching, including the importance of having a structured practice plan while remaining flexible to adapt to the team’s needs. Rob shares insights on balancing practice time with goals, the significance of music in creating a comfortable atmosphere for players, and the necessity of communication during practice and games. The conversation emphasizes the development of good habits and decision-making in players, as well as the importance of preparation and consistency throughout the season. In this conversation, the guys explore the intersection of music and coaching, discussing how music connects generations and enhances the coaching experience. They delve into the nuances of in-game coaching, the importance of timeout management, and the role of officials in youth sports. The discussion also emphasizes the significance of leadership, setting a positive example, and planning for adversity in coaching scenarios.
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What We Discuss with Rob Brost
- Getting done what you need to get done and how that impacts the length of practice
- When, where, how, and why to use music in your practices
- Most overrated and underrated in-game coaching skills and decisions
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THANKS, ROB BROST
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TRANSCRIPT FOR “THE TRIPLE DOUBLE” #13 WITH ROB BROST, BOLINGBROOK (IL) HIGH SCHOOL BOYS’ BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 1013
[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here with my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight and it is time for Triple Double #13. We are into year two of the Triple Double with Rob Brost, head boys basketball coach at Bolingbrook High School in the state of Illinois. Rob, welcome back. Year two, buddy.
[00:00:22] Rob Brost: Man, it seems like it was just yesterday, but time moves really, really fast.
[00:00:28] Mike Klinzing: It certainly does. There is no question about that. I can hardly believe we’re in the month of, I started school October or August 6th. Right now it’s October or whatever. Two months in. Yeah, but, and it, and it feels, but since I’m two months in, it feels like it should be December.
Every time I look at the calendar and I’m like…
[00:00:46] Jason Sunkle: Mike, you’re two months less, there’s two months less on your time needed to serve.
[00:00:50] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. I’m like, well, yeah, well, I just had my meeting with the retirement board. So I just, you know, I got the I got the load on. I kept trying to hint to the guy, I’m like, is STRS going to give us, you They’re going to give me another year back so I don’t have to renew my license and take any more classes and do another five year plan.
Because right now, Rob, I got to work 25, for 25 days that I have to work to get the full retirement. I have to take two, I have to take six hours of classes, do a five, do a five year plan at my school, all this stuff just to get these extra 25 days. If you’re working in a district like my district, that’s like 600 Jason, that’s six, that’s 600 a month.
In my, in my pension to work those extra 25 days. Can you believe that?
[00:01:35] Jason Sunkle: Let me just tell you this, Mike. If your district was like my district, there was a PE teacher at the elementary school that needed to work 13 days and they had him work over the summer. All right. Well, there you go. That could be a possibility. Maybe you could swing that.
[00:01:48] Mike Klinzing: I could be, maybe I could be an AD an athletic director internship or something. Who knows? Yeah. I think if I, I’ll do, I’ll do landscaping, I’ll clean the building. Mike, you might be able to get some recruiting done or something. I don’t know what Richmond Heights is doing out
[00:02:04] Jason Sunkle: Mike, you might be able to get some recruiting done or something. I don’t know what Richmond Heights is doing. I don’t know what Richmond Heights is doing out here for the raffle team.
[00:02:06] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, maybe, I’ll keep that under wraps, man. Let’s keep that under wraps. All right. So all that being said, we are going to talk our three topics tonight. And the first one is practice time in terms of getting things done that you want to get done. in a practice and trying to balance that with the length of time that you want to practice.
And obviously it varies from different points of the season where preseason you may have goals, during the season you have preparation for a particular game. Just talk about how often do you run into a practice where you had a whole plan of this is what I want to accomplish and you sort of ran into.
So I don’t know how you want to approach that question, Rob, but just thinking about the time versus what you get done in a practice conundrum.
[00:03:04] Rob Brost: Well, I think first off, you have to have a plan, like a season plan, right. And have a template of what you want to have in by when, and what you want to have done by when.
And by that, I mean, you know, we want to have. Before our first game, we want to have X, Y, Z done and in, and we want to have the situational thing in by the first game, and then knowing that that’s not going to be all that you’re going to put in, obviously. And so I think number one, you need to have a, a plan of action as to when you want stuff in by, and then.
Number two, and this sounds contrarian to what I just said in number one, you have to be flexible with said plan, depending on how things go during the season. And so, you know, injuries play a part into that, how you’re doing, your opponent, you know, the gym schedule, you know, all of those things play into practice time.
Right. And then. You know, in general, we like to go when we first start about two hours of practice until our first game, I would say. And then it really depends through like mid September, but by January 1, we’re going, I know some people won’t believe this, we’re going 45 minutes, maybe an hour 15 by January 1 just doing what we need to do and then getting them out of there.
And so. I’m a firm believer, especially at the end of the season, that if our best players aren’t healthy, number one, and fresh, number two, we’re not going to win many games. And so I’ve probably taken it too far some of these years. But as I get, I guess, more mature with my coaching, I don’t mind if we have a 45 minute practice and I don’t mind if we have two or three 45 minute practices in a row, especially in January and February.
And so a lot of it is dictated on how we’re playing and then who we’re playing. And then also you just, and I’ve said this many times on this podcast covering very top, various topics. I just go by feel after about the first two weeks or three weeks, obviously I have a plan and stuff I want to get done, but I just go by feel a lot more now than I used to.
If that makes sense.
[00:05:49] Jason Sunkle: Can I ask you a question, Rob? So like when you when you do your practices, like, I know you’ve mentioned film, like do you spend, when we get later in the season, do you spend less time on the floor and more time watching film? Or is film the same throughout the year? Or does that get adjusted at all?
I would say
[00:06:05] Rob Brost: our coaches watch more film as the year goes on. Our players, you know, we try to remain pretty consistent in the Activity level of the film because we don’t want to overwhelm them with stuff and I know some coaches are the exact opposite. They want to give their guys everything in case this happens and we’re the exact opposite.
We are less is more I think on the film and we are less on the practice time once we get to January, February for sure. And You know, people say to me all the time, well, that’s because you have good players. Well, obviously that’s part of it. The other part of it is we need the good players to be ready to go and they need to be fresh and they don’t need to be overwhelmed.
And, you know, we talked about this, I don’t know, a couple of podcasts ago. I want our player. I know everybody says nothing comes from your comfort zone and all of that. I want our players to be comfortable. I want them to be free and I want them to feel comfortable. Well. Not necessarily in the practice setting, but I want them to understand what the routine is.
I want them to understand what the preparation looks like. And so, you know, doing that on a consistent basis over and over and over is in large part what makes us good. And we prepare the same way whether we’re playing a team that’s 3 20 or a team that’s 20 3. The preparation is the same. And so the scouting is the same.
The detail that we have in our film sessions is the same. And so I think that has helped us and it’s helped our guys develop a level of consistency that they understand the work is the work. No matter who we’re playing, when we’re playing them, the work is the work. And so it’s easier said than done, but I, I definitely err on the side of less than more.
I know there’s coaches, you know, even at our school that make their kids watch a certain amount of tape via huddle when they’re not, like. They check their phones and see how we don’t do any of that. We, we, if I want them to watch something, I sit and watch it with them.
[00:08:26] Jason Sunkle: You don’t tell him, you don’t tell him, and when they, he says he’s watched zero minutes of film, you don’t get upset with them.
[00:08:32] Rob Brost: I don’t do that. Obviously our kids have access to that and can watch whatever they want to watch. And then, you know, they can do whatever they’d like to do with our huddle. And, and do all that. And a lot of them do watch on their own, but I don’t track it. I don’t make them do it or anything like that.
And so I think, you know, for us to be prepared, like we want to be prepared, the ones that want to do it and are comfortable doing extra, they will. It’s just like workouts, like right now, right? Our top five or six guys are working out every day, sometimes twice a day on their own, and some of our guys aren’t working out at all.
And so it’s very similar to that. And so, you know, we’ve been lucky to have good leadership from our teams and good leadership from our players. And certainly the work is the work, right? I, I think it comes down to habits and decision making, and I know we’ve talked about this a bunch of times as well, and the practice thing really comes down to habits, what we need to do, what we want to stress, and then We have specific practice plans for each day and what we want to accomplish and all those things.
But I, I think you know, as far as practice length, we’ll start about two hours at the beginning of the season and then probably by even some pre games in December, like the day before games, we’ll go 45 minutes or an hour and that’s it. And then we’ll watch a little tape and we’ll be out of there.
So but I go a lot on feel much more than I, I have done in the past.
[00:10:10] Mike Klinzing: Tell me about the yearly outline and putting that together. Like how long into your time at Bowling Brook were you when you felt like you had that set up the way you wanted it to in terms of the things that you felt like you had to get in before the first game?
And then what’s the process for tweaking it as you go season to season as you’re kind of looking it over as you head
[00:10:36] Rob Brost: into the year? It, it, It ends up being very similar from year to year, to be honest with you. Because the rhythm gets to be the same, you know, I don’t want to say we’re an elite program, but we’re, we’re pretty good usually.
And so the rhythm of the seasons are somewhat similar when we play well, and when we don’t is not similar. Right. And that’s where the flexibility comes in injuries, guys that do dumb stuff that maybe don’t play or can’t, you know, whatever happens. So that’s where that flexibility comes in. So I don’t know if I’m ever really comfortable with it before the season starts but I get comfortable with it as the season goes because I have a better feel and I know what our team needs as we go.
And so, like I tell our guys, nobody knows what we need more than us. We know what we need because we’re here every single day. And we’re together and we have the sweat equity with each other to know what we need. So obviously there’s some years where I want stuff in and we don’t get to it, or I want to wait and we have to put stuff in earlier.
You know, all of those things happen. And, you know, there’s some years where you have a veteran team where you can put way more in than you’re going to use, obviously. And so. You know, every year is a little bit different, but I don’t even know if I’m comfortable, right? Like, I’m working on this year’s right now, just to solidify it and see exactly where we’re going to be.
But we play some really big games at the beginning of December, and so, you know, we’re playing some national caliber competition, so we’re going to need some things in those games that we don’t necessarily need, need for some games that are, you know, aren’t as, I don’t know if competitive is the right word, but we’re going to be outmatched in some of these national level games, so.
You know, we’re going to, we’re going to have our work cut out for us. So it changes the plan a little bit.
[00:12:34] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, no, that makes sense. I mean, again, it’s the idea of, right, you do the planning and then as the plan is being executed, you see how things are going and how they’re progressing with that particular team, with those particular players, and then.
You make adjustments. Clearly, I would guess that there’s some core things that you’re like, we have to have these three things in, whatever those three things are, and you prioritize those. And if, if your team gets those down, boom, now you can start to add other things. As you said, if you have a more experienced team versus, Hey, maybe you have a team that’s a little less experienced and maybe you can’t add all those extra bells and whistles before the first game, you just have to focus on, Hey, we’ve got to get the core things that we’re all about in and again, that’s what.
The overall yearly outline is designed to do is just sentiment, kind of keep you on track of, Hey, these are the things, these are the, these are the non negotiables for lack of a better way of saying it, that we, that we have to get in in order for us to be able to be able to do that. So I
[00:13:32] Rob Brost: think this point in my career, like I mentioned, I’m more concerned about the habits than I am the specifics of what we’re doing.
And so I know that there’s some experienced coaches that are like, what is he talking about? Like he doesn’t care about, you know, set, but no, that’s not what I’m saying. But What I am saying is developing good habits for our guys is the most important thing. And then if they can make good decisions, then we’ll work, then we’re on to something.
So you’re right. We have a baseline of stuff that we gotta be able to do by game one. And then obviously it evolves as the season goes.
[00:14:09] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, absolutely. Those habits are transferable to everything that you do, right? It doesn’t matter if you’re putting in. a new out of bounds play or you’re putting in your core offense or you’re going through and doing something defensive, whatever it is that you’re doing, if your players have good habits in terms of how they learn and how they practice and how they play together, those things translate across whatever it is that you’re putting in.
And if you have those in place, it makes it much easier and you can be much more efficient with your time.
[00:14:35] Rob Brost: Yeah. And I think as the season goes, like during games, I’ll say to my assistants, You know, I’ll just say, Hey, remind me to put X in before the next game. And they’ll just write it down, jot it down.
Cause stuff will come to me in games that I have not completely forgot about, but maybe overlooked. Right. Right. We don’t have in yet. And I’ll say that, make sure, you know, by the next game, we have just remind me to do app. And so I don’t think of some of those things until the games come. Right. And the games are so random.
You don’t know what’s going to happen in the games. So, you know, you gotta, you gotta be able to move on the fly and give your kids confidence in doing things as they come.
[00:15:17] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. All right. Topic number two. This one is a little bit, I guess, lighter of a topic. So I, I sent Rob this one and I just said music and I put pregame, during practice, yes or no.
There’s a lot of different things that you can kind of bounce off of in terms of, you If you say yes to music, then there are certainly some things that you have to concern yourself with. If you say no to music, then maybe you get some pushback from players. So just what’s your thought on when and where music is a part or isn’t a part of your program?
[00:15:53] Rob Brost: I want now, now, if you’d asked me this 15 years ago, I’d have given you a completely different answer. Now, I want the more music, the better, the more comfortable our guys are with the atmosphere, the more comfortable they are with what’s happening the better they’re going to play. Right. Now that can’t be at the detriment of habits and decision making, which we just talked about.
And so if that becomes a detriment to those two things, then we won’t have any music. And so, you know, our kids know that. And I think we do a pretty good job of. letting them know, you know, when the music’s okay, when it’s not. And then, and then we kind of have some fun with it. Like you know, we’ll do a free throw contest between me and a player and then, you know, that they get the aux tomorrow, they get the chord and they can decide the music.
Now, obviously if you win,
[00:16:48] Jason Sunkle: do you get to pick the music?
[00:16:51] Rob Brost: I’ll tell you exactly what it is. If I win, it’s 80s Pandora and it’s just 80s music. And that’s what it is. That’s what it will be. And if I win, that’s what’s playing. And so then they try to like, on me into like, well, can we at least get like Michael Jackson or some R and B eighties or something like that?
And then I’ll be like, dude, I won. So it’s just, that’s the way it is. So we have a manager that’s been our manager for the last three years. So he’s, he’s big on the ox and like making sure that everybody is represented. I guess you would say like what music they want and all that. When we’re warming up and stretching and.
Even our first five or six drills that we do, that we constantly do every day, we’ll have music on for all of that. And then certainly, like when we’re practicing timeouts and what timeouts are going to look like, we’ll have music on for that. When we’re practicing our pregame, which we’ll do we’ll have music on for that as well.
So. I’m a big proponent of the music now, whereas when I first started at Bolingbroke, like there was no way I would allow, I was somewhat of a control freak back then. And that’s probably why we weren’t any good. I think I was trying to,
[00:18:02] Jason Sunkle: you know, Oh,
[00:18:05] Rob Brost: well, I don’t think so now I’m a lot more, you know, I think player centric than I am like, Hey, we got to do this.
We got to do this. We got to do this. And but at the same time holding players accountable and holding them to the standard and you know, those things remain the same. So you know, I’m a big fan of the music now. I don’t necessarily like some of the music that they pick, which is fine. They don’t like the music that I pick.
And so we make it into a fun thing and it’s, it, it’s really good. Like, well, you know, I, Like we’ll have Michael Jackson day on the aux cord. We’ll have like, you know, I don’t even know some of the popular artists that our kids would like, but like we’ll have there a day where our manager just plays one certain artist.
And then, then he’ll come in and be like, well, it’s Taylor Swift day. And everybody will be like, no way. You know, so it makes for a little fun games at practice too. And so that, that part, the, The lightheartedness of practice, I think, helps our guys too, and it helps them be loose and helps them be comfortable.
And again, I say that, you know, with a grain of salt, because obviously we want to go hard and we want, we don’t want our kids to be comfortable with their play necessarily, but we want them to be comfortable in every other aspect of what’s happening. Shoes, uniforms, gear, food, all of those things, and make it as much like a college.
Atmosphere as profitable.
[00:19:36] Mike Klinzing: What about the potential for unscrupulous language in Yeah. Some, some of the music. How do you handle that? Yeah. Because I know even in, even in my gym class, in elementary school, yeah. Yeah. I’ll have kids that will come to me and they’ll say, ’cause I’m playing music all the time.
My music is my, it’s my start. Yeah. It’s my doubt, it’s my finish, you know, whatever. And kids all the time will come up to me and of course. Again, if I go back 25 years ago when I first started teaching and kids would say, Hey, do you know this song or that song? And I would know the song and I would know whether or not the song was appropriate to be played or not.
Now they come to me with songs and artists. I’m like, I, you know, I’m like, I’m like, it’s, it’s not on the playlist. I’m going to have to go home and listen to it first. So just. Again, with some of the language that can be in some of the music today, even sometimes music that you might not even think has some language.
How do you, how do you handle that? Or how do you approach, how do you approach that?
[00:20:35] Rob Brost: That’s tough, right? Because, you know, like I talked about before, you want your players comfortable and listening to what they like and all that stuff. But on the other hand, you’re an example and you’re you know, trying to set the tone.
Or what’s appropriate. And so, you know, obviously we can’t have a bunch of swear words and a bunch of, you know, we’re doing this and this and this, you know, that are XYZ bad things, quote unquote. And so I just tell them if you get the aux and that’s happening, then that’s the last day that you’ll get it.
And so that’s just the way it is. And then, so if something like that happens and they kind of scoot it by me and I hear it Then I just take over the Hawks and then we’re back to 80s Pandora. And then they’re like, Oh my God. So then that doesn’t really happen very often. And so that, that’s kind of how we handle it.
You know, on, when we practice on the weekends when nobody else is there I give a little more leeway on what I’ll allow cause people aren’t walking through the gym. You know, and a typical practice during a weekday. You know, who knows a board member might be walking through the gym, a parent, you know, girls from the tennis team, the football, not football necessarily, cause it’s not in season, but you know what I’m saying?
Badminton is practicing, you know, everybody’s walking through the gym just to get through to the other side of the school. And, you know, so you never know, you know, who’s going to be in there. So you know, Sundays when we practice on Sunday mornings, it’s, it’s not like free reign, don’t get me wrong.
It’s not like anything goes. But I’m a little more lenient on those days than I am, you know, during the week. And typically we practice Monday through Friday. We give our guys Saturday off and then we practice Sunday again, because normally we’re playing late on Friday night. So I don’t want to get up at, you know, get them up at like 10 a.
m. when we just got home at, you know, midnight or 1 a. m., whatever it is when we just played. So in general, that’s kind of the rhythm of our practice. We take Saturdays off rather than Sundays. So. You know, that’s, that’s how we do that.
[00:22:41] Mike Klinzing: You ever have music playing when you’re playing live? Like you talked about doing it sort of the beginning when you’re doing more drill work.
And so here’s why I asked this question. So music, when I think about playing music, When I’m playing basketball, I often think of it just when I’m by myself shooting. I’m thinking back a long time ago to when I’m a player and I like to have music going when I’m working out and doing my shooting or doing whatever.
Then I had an experience, this is probably in the last couple years when I stopped playing, so we’re talking now, this is still 15 years ago, let’s say, but I was going to some open gyms that this guy’s, man, ah, it’s about, no, it’s about 15. It’s about 15. This is 15. This is right before this. Get him was, get
[00:23:30] Jason Sunkle: him a hard time, man.
This is right.
[00:23:31] Mike Klinzing: This is right before I tore my ACL. So I’m playing at this guy’s house and he would have, he would bring, he had this, he had a gym in his house and so he’d have guys that were, there were players of all different levels. There was guys that. We’re really good players at one point. There were some guys that weren’t very good, but this guy would crank music to like ungodly decibels and I’m trying to play, I couldn’t hear, like, I hated it.
Like it was, it was terrible. Cause I couldn’t hear what anybody was saying. Nobody could hear what I was saying. And so to your point, what you talked about, like there was no communication and part of me felt like, I feel like I should like this. Like, it’s not like I didn’t like the music or it wasn’t, I just felt like when I was trying to play.
It was almost impossible for me to be able to communicate in the way that I was used to. So I don’t know if you’ve thought about that, if you’ve talked to players about that.
[00:24:23] Rob Brost: If we’re just playing, which isn’t often in practice, but I mean, I would say the music is fine, but not at a decibel level where you can’t hear anything because for us anyways, and I think it’s most for most players, you got to be able to communicate with your team.
Absolutely. We’re sitting in Open Gym today and the two college coaches that were there were like, Yeah. They talk a lot. And I think our guys don’t talk at all. And he was like, I go into open gym after open gym and no one’s talking, no one’s saying anything. And so sometimes the music helps us with that because it makes us talk louder and it makes us communicate more and better, but we don’t have it to a decibel level where you can’t hear anything.
We don’t, we don’t really do that. Even when we have it on during our warmup drills and stretching and all of that stuff. It’s, it’s never at a. You know, and then obviously, you know, with the way technology is now you can cut the sound like right from your phone. And so when I’m going to say something, I just pause it and then I talk and then I put it back on.
And so you know, I think you just have to use caution with it that that doesn’t become the focus and that’s just helping to be more comfortable if that makes sense. At least that’s the way I see it and the way I feel, but if, but if I feel like it’s Becoming the emphasis or that’s what they’re worried about, then we won’t have it at all.
And so, you know, it’s just like anything, it’s like parenting, right? Like how much slack do you give them? Do you give them too much slack? Are you over parenting? Are you under parenting? And so, you know, you just go by, at least I do, I go by feel 90 percent of the time now and just go with what I feel the team needs.
And this would be true with the music as well.
[00:26:13] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. I mean, when I started I didn’t use the music technology wasn’t nearly as good right now. I just have the, now I just have the Bluetooth speakers and carry the phone around and I can turn the music on, turn it off. It’s my, it’s my start signal. It’s my stop signal.
The music’s going all the time. And I try to make interesting
[00:26:32] Rob Brost: music because I’m. My health class, I teach a health class in the morning and I have music going and then I tell them when the music cuts off, that’s when I’m starting. So that means your phones are away. That means I’m about to say something.
When the music’s going, you can do whatever you want. You can do whatever. So it’s interesting what you say on the start and stop. I use that in my health, in the classroom as my start and stop. And then when they’re working on stuff, I’ll put the music on. That means you can quietly talk to a neighbor and do all that.
[00:27:01] Jason Sunkle: I do the same thing in my fourth grade math class, Rob. I play music all the time and I normally just randomly pick a kid to say, what do you want to hear? And obviously I have to be really careful with fourth graders with the music that I’m playing, you know, they pick Taylor Swift very often. And I have to like, Oh, this song I cannot play.
Like you gotta skip this one guys. And I’m like, well, you might, you might not understand it, but it’s not appropriate or things like that. And I used to be a big, like, I would only play Disney music, but like in the, but now that’s kind of like, I don’t.
[00:27:34] Rob Brost: It’s funny though. Cause kids, when they’re doing anything.
Anything they have music on just about anything they do. And like, even today I’m, I’m getting ready. I’m getting some stuff ready in the locker room as well. And I had music on, like, I, I, I just have music playing. Cause I’m just. You know, now it’s 80s Pandora, 80s Pandora in there, it’s 80s Pandora in my car.
It’s like 80s music everywhere. I’ve got, I’ve
[00:28:00] Jason Sunkle: got this, I’ve got this new thing I’m doing now with my in my homeroom is every day, if I’m listening, I listen to SiriusXM Pop 2K which is like 2000, 2009. I I play, I’ll play songs that are appropriate. Cause sometimes there’s songs that aren’t appropriate.
I’ll play like a clip of those songs and say, does anyone know the songs and see if the kids can figure it out? And it’s pretty funny. And some of them know, like, Oh my God, listen to this. And then they’re like, And then they say Beatles. I’m like, this is from 2001, you guys. Come on now.
[00:28:30] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. I’ve been over at times.
My kids at school will say all the time, Rob loves this song, you know, whatever, you know, whatever it is, or I know this one. My dad listens to it all the time. What’s really funny is, I don’t know if, you know, Jason, you may not be at this point quite yet, but Rob, you probably are like my kids. And like right now, my daughter is a freshman.
Like I’ll take her to go shoot at the gym. And like, she loves to listen to music. And I’m like, And so we’ll just put out music. But most of the time, like when I’m listening with her, we’re listening to like my music. So we’re listening to, again, to like eighties music, or we’re listening to like eighties, nineties, eighties, nineties, rap and R and B.
So like a song will come on and her and I are riding down the road and we’re both singing, you know, we’re both singing boys to men or new edition or whatever, you know, and it’s just, It’s one of those things that you’re just like, you know, you’re looking over and thinking, but like these songs were, these songs were popular when I was 15 and now here I am with my 15 year old daughter.
You know, 30 years later, I will say it’s kind of crazy.
[00:29:27] Jason Sunkle: TikTok has gotten, breathed a lot of life into some of these old songs because they use them for like different things. And then they, like, I think of Miss, the Miss Jackson by Outkast, the amount of kids that know that song have no, like my fourth graders knew that song today.
I play, I play the beginning of it and they’re like, Oh, Miss Jackson by Outkast. I’m like, how do you TikTok? Yeah. Even, it’s like, it’s like. I didn’t think there was any way, but it’s crazy.
[00:29:56] Mike Klinzing: Well, and you think about, again, so I’m the oldest of the three of us, but when I was a kid, like there’s only so many years of recorded music and now you think about how much more recorded music there is for our kids to listen to.
Well, but you get what I’m, you get what I’m saying. And then what’s also interesting is that, that, you know, like you have all these classic songs that lots of, I mean, everybody to your point, Rob, about, Hey, it’s Michael Jackson day. Like when a Michael Jackson song comes out in my gym, like every kid is belting that thing out.
It doesn’t matter if they’re in first grade or they’re in sixth grade, they all, they all know it. They’re trying to do the dance moves there, you know, whatever. And you’re like, Oh my, it’s just, I mean, it’s kind of crazy again, how, how connective music is, and that speaks to kind of, I guess, the point of my question, can you use music as an additive to make what you do?
More enjoyable. And again, to use your words, to make your kids more comfortable in the environment that you’re creating for them without creating a distraction. I think that was, that was kind of the point of the question.
[00:31:00] Rob Brost: All
[00:31:01] Mike Klinzing: right, let’s move on to the third topic. So the third topic I gave Rob was thinking about in game coaching.
And we’ve all heard the phrase, Hey, this guy’s a really good in game coach. And so the question is, what’s the most overrated and underrated in game Skill adjustment, whatever you want to kind of phrase that terminology, but what’s, what’s overrated and underrated as an in
[00:31:27] Rob Brost: game coach in your mind? Well, this one I got to be a little careful because I think it’s all important, right?
Like you gotta, you gotta be good at everything. So I’m going to preface what I’m about to say with, I don’t think it’s like completely useful or I don’t think you should not do it. But this is just me talking and I’m a little contrarian, like I mentioned before. I, I think there’s two things that I thought were overrated.
And one was just, there’s too much coaching in general happening. Too much directions, too much, you know, not yelling necessarily, but too much instructions, too many, like do this, do this. Why did you do that? Why did you, kids know what to do. And if they don’t know what to do, that’s on you as the coach. And so, you know, if they don’t know what to do or they don’t understand, that’s the coach’s fault, not necessarily the player’s fault.
And so, again, I, when I was younger, I was guilty of this. I would just be yelling out instructions all the time. Pass, extra, do this, you know, screen down, you know, all of the stuff that you could yell. And so, I think overcoaching is super, Overrated or too much coaching, if that makes sense. And then the other thing, and this is going to really rattle some feathers.
I think the other thing that I think is overrated is half court offense. So much time gets spent on half court offense, and then you’re never in the half court or you’re hardly ever in the half court, especially in an IE school game. I get in college, how it’s slow and it’s after that. Okay. Then wouldn’t you want to.
If it’s a half court game so much, wouldn’t you want to get out and transition a little bit more to get an easy basket every now and then? So I think half court offense is the most overrated thing that coaches work on and then they never get into that in games or they rarely get into it in games. So those are my two things that are overrated.
My underrated things are just, the first one is just what I try to do and this is just me. I always try to have two timeouts with under a minute left, that I have two timeouts left. And so my assistants will say to me a lot, you lead the country in unused
[00:33:47] Mike Klinzing: timeouts.
[00:33:49] Rob Brost: And I was like, well, that’s probably true.
And there’s a lot of times where there’s coach, we need a timeout. We need a timeout. I get that. But we also need to learn how to play without me micromanaging every single thing. Last minute, I will micromanage that thing and I’ll have the two timeouts and I’ll be ready. But I see it time and time and time again, where I’m scouting a game where I’m just watching a game, no timeouts left.
And it’s under a minute. Like, what are you doing? That run that they were on in the first half. I mean, come on, that was then. Now you really need the timeout and you don’t have one. And so my most underrated thing that I try to always have is two timeouts left with under a minute. And so. I,
[00:34:33] Jason Sunkle: I love that answer because I, I love, I love when coaches, when you, when like three straight possessions go poorly, like I say, you’re pressing and coach goes three straight possessions and they call a timeout.
Don’t they think the other coach is going to like change their plan because they’re spending the whole time out. I, I will purposely, if I’m pressing and I got coach called a timeout, I pull the press off for two possessions and then I say, Hey, you’ve got two possessions or you’re not pressing. Half court defense, and then the third possession, I put the press back on because everything that the coach just spent there,
[00:35:13] Rob Brost: 60
[00:35:14] Jason Sunkle: seconds, he forgot, it’s going to one ear out the other.
I think use of timeouts is really a good one, Rob. Good
[00:35:21] Rob Brost: job. I like that. I think that’s something that we try to do a better job, and then if it’s not necessary, we don’t use them. I mean, I do probably lead the country in unused timeouts. That’s probably true. But my assistants get really frustrated with me sometimes, but I always, I shouldn’t say always, cause it’s has happened where we haven’t had them cause I we weren’t playing well or whatever happened, but I liked the, the, to have two timeouts under a minute for sure.
Every time. So this is an interesting one, but I. Interesting question for sure.
[00:35:55] Mike Klinzing: All right. I have a timeout. I have a timeout story that goes to your point, Rob, of having two timeouts to the minute left, and then having those timeouts still in your pocket when the game ends. So I remember when I was a kid and this is before I got to high school.
So I’m talking, I’m probably in upper elementary school or middle school. And my dad had a former student who was coaching at a The high school where I ended up going to. And I think at that time he was the JV coach. And I remember sitting in the stands with my mom and dad and my sister watching high school games when I’m whatever I’m 12 years old, I’m 13 years old, and this coach, no matter what the score was, he would always make sure that he used every single one of his five timeouts, whether he was down 30, up 30.
And this guy had been my dad’s student. So my dad was a professor at Cleveland state and he had been one of my dad’s students. And I can still remember like the conversation between my mom and dad saying like, you know, what, what is, what’s Johnny doing down there? Why is he calling? Why is he calling all these timeouts in a JV game?
Like we just, can’t we just get to the varsity? Why is he calling timeout? He’s up by 30. Why is he calling timeout? He’s, he’s down, you know, he’s down by 30. And so I still always remember that when I think about Again, coaches, the use of timeouts, and obviously there’s the point of you can use a timeout to teach something and there’s teachable moments, although there’s probably not five timeouts worth of teachable moments in every single game if you’re up or down by 30, but I still, I can still picture those conversations of my parents.
sitting in the stands, having those, having those discussions about about this particular coach. So I’m going to share mine. Jason, I don’t know if you have your, I don’t know if you have anything you want to throw in there, but I’ll throw mine in and then you can think about it if you haven’t already.
So my, my overrated thing I think is the amount of times that you’ll hear people say, Oh, as a coach, you gotta, you gotta really learn how to work the officials. And to me, I always feel like that is something that I have never ever been a proponent of, both just myself as a coach, and then also watching coaches.
Whenever I think about my own experiences, I’ve never really had a good one in terms of me, quote, unquote, working officials. I’ve never worked an official. Maybe I’m just not good at it, but I never felt like I worked an official where suddenly I was getting All the calls I more often, what would happen is the other coach would be working the official.
And then suddenly I would get a lot more calls because the other guy was working the officials and, and then at the same time, I know when I watch games and I’m watching people coach, anytime I see somebody who’s spending an inordinate amount of time talking to officials, I see them losing sight of what their team is doing and trying to help.
their kids on the floor and instead they’re more worried about the officials. So to me, I always feel like a coach who is quote working the officials, to me that’s a hugely overrated, I don’t even know if it’s a skill, but it’s just something that a behavior that I think coaches do too much. And then my thing that I think is underrated is I think having the right personnel on the floor at the right time in games.
And being able to understand substitution patterns and who should be on the floor when and how to take advantage of matchup situations. To me, getting the right personnel on the floor is something that is Extremely underrated because I’ll see games and go and Jason, I don’t even know how many times we’ve talked about, and again, I don’t claim to, yeah, I don’t claim, I don’t claim to know more than an NBA coach, but there are certainly times where I’d like to know the why behind some of the lineups that I see coaches roll out there that don’t make any sense.
And I think certainly in the, at the high school level, if you have the right personnel on the floor, I just feel like then schematically what you’re doing becomes secondary almost if you have the right guys on the floor and I, so I don’t know how you feel about those two, those two points, Rob, if those, those make any sense or resonate with you in any way.
[00:40:29] Rob Brost: Yeah, I, I think those are great. I, we were just talking tonight. I was talking with one of my assistants cause I, you know, at practice I do this too. I observe more than I actually coach and my assistants do Large part of the coaching, obviously at Open Gym, we’re just all observing. So we’re just all standing and talking and, you know, we brought up this one, one kid who happened to not make an extra pass.
And my assistant said, well, it’s not his fault. He’s never been told or never been made to do it. And so he just, you know, knowing your personnel and what they can and can’t do, and then putting them in. The position in the game and the time and place in the game that they need to use the skills that they’re good at is really, really important.
So I think, I think that is a really underrated one. And I would also go so as, as far as with like, for me, for example, I have, you know, three or four assistants on the varsity. Then I have two sophomore coaches. Then I have two freshman coaches and a third volunteer guy who kind of helps throughout.
Getting those guys in the right spot for their strength is also really underrated. And just to piggyback on your players being in the right spots, you know, just leading the personnel of coaches that I have and, you know, getting them in the right positions, who works well with who, who’s good with these groups, that group.
And so I think that is underrated as well. So I just kind of piggybacked on what you were saying. And I, I immediately think about, like, I do that with my staff a lot. Like, are, am I utilizing them the best that I can, that serves the kids that we have the best. And so that’s something I think about a lot.
And I don’t know if a lot of coaches think about it or not. They probably do. I don’t, I don’t know. But I think about that type of stuff a lot more than I think about X’s and O’s, a lot more.
[00:42:35] Jason Sunkle: I think for me, when I’m sitting here thinking, I’m thinking like kind of to piggyback off the official piece, like I think an underrated skill, but also might be a little bit of both, but like making sure that you practice what you preach and like, I specifically think of a coach who yells at his kids to stop arguing with the officials or stop talking to officials and then immediately goes and does it like, like, like riding the officials, getting upset with the officials, but.
At the same time yelling at their kids, because I think a lot of those behaviors are learned behaviors. And I understand you watch the NBA, it’s a joke. It’s an absolute joke the way that the, the players argue about calls and there’s no repercussions unless your name’s Draymond Green or you know, like, like, like there’s no repercussions for it.
So these kids are seeing these behaviors. Yeah. On the biggest stage, which I love the NBAI love watching basketball. I know Mike loves bad watching NBA basketball, but. Their kids are learning from that. We as coaches have to understand that what we do is going to rub off on the kids too. So if we are going to tell the kids, hey, don’t yell at the officials, don’t argue with officials.
My tact is always, most of the officials that I get in middle school basketball games are officials that I’ve had for the last seven years. They all know them and they, they know who I am. I also officiated for a few seasons. So, They know me from that too. So like I always, if I don’t agree with the call, I just go up to the official at a time out or, and I just be like, can you explain to me what you saw here?
So I can understand how I can explain it to my kids. So instead of yelling thing, I disagree with your call. That’s a terrible call. I just asked them, you just, so I can explain to my kid what, what was wrong. And since they know me, it comes across way better. And I see these other guys, these other coaches, and they’re just upset about every little thing.
And it’s like, Guys, make your team better. Don’t worry about the officiating. Like, it is part of the game.
[00:44:41] Mike Klinzing: Especially at the, especially at the middle school level. Middle school level. Let me, guys, come
[00:44:44] Jason Sunkle: on, let’s be honest. Most of the middle school officials are retired varsity officials that are just trying to make extra money.
Okay. Or there are new people. There’s, and, and especially given the fact that the officiating, I wouldn’t say it is a well sought after profession right now. Okay. And I, like there, there’s a shortage for sure. Like I know I, I was at an, I was at the place in Brunswick, like that has the, what’s it called?
Hooper, Hooper, right? They, they had, they had gotten officials from Canada because they didn’t have any officials to work. They literally pay for them to have room and board and pay the officials because there’s not enough officials around here because no one wants to officiate because parents, kids, and these officials, by the way, aren’t very good that they’re getting from Canada.
But. They’re officials because there’s no one else to do it. So I think, I think that’s really a big thing. It’s just the way that we treat it, free the officiating. It doesn’t help with the parents as well. That’s just another thing. It’s not fun. And, and I don’t know where you stand on that, Rob, like with, with the parents and, and shouting things at the stands.
I don’t know what it’s like in bowling rough. Like, do you, do you guys, I
[00:46:01] Rob Brost: mean, I think what you said, the, the biggest example you have is yourself. Yeah. Right. The biggest role model for the program is me. And I’m not saying that because I think I’m bad. It’s just the way that it is.
[00:46:19] Jason Sunkle: You’re the, you’re the head of the program,
[00:46:21] Rob Brost: Rob.
Yes. And with that comes responsibility. All the way around, just like there’s responsibility with being a player within the program. And so, you know, I was talking to another coach, buddy of mine. And I, this is the way I liken my position, like I’m in charge of this big ship, right? With all kinds of stuff going on and I’m just the little rudder in the back, right?
But if the little rudder in the back goes awry, that whole ship is going down and the whole thing is going to run amok, right? But if the little rudder in the back keeps things going straight, keeps on top of things, keeps aware of everything that’s happening on the ship. The ship’s probably going to go exactly where it’s supposed to go.
That doesn’t mean you don’t have conflict. That doesn’t mean you win every game. It doesn’t mean any of that, but if you’re not paying attention and you’re the rudder and you’re, you’re going to run that ship right into the ground. If you don’t pay attention to everything that’s happening on your ship.
And so that’s what I kind of liken it to. Cause you know, some, some people come and observe me at practice like. Well, you weren’t doing much. No, I’m doing a lot more than you think is happening because I’m standing here. And so I, I think, you know, setting the tone and setting the example for the program, not only with officials, but like my demeanor with parents, my demeanor with kids, my demeanor with you know, our administration, my demeanor with other coaches.
Thanks. It’s always being evaluated. We tell this to kids all the time, like you’re always being evaluated. Well, so am I, everybody is going to react to what I do because I happen to be. And again, I’m not just saying this because like I happen to be the head coach of a pretty good program at a really big high school in Illinois.
So that’s just the way that it is. And so you can’t take part of that and then not accept all parts of that. Right. And so I think there’s a large responsibility there, but I think if you do it right and you treat people right, then good things happen to you eventually. And again, it’s like I just said a minute ago, doesn’t mean you’re going to win every game.
Doesn’t mean everything’s going to be perfect. Doesn’t mean that everything is going to be great all the time. Cause you know, adversity’s coming, you know, there’s going to be bumps in a row in the road, but you know it. And so you’re. You might not be ready for the specifics that come at you, but you’re ready for the stuff that comes at you because it’s going to happen.
And so I think whenever you sit in a leadership position, you have to realize that that’s what’s going to happen. I, I, I’ve been around a lot of leaders, you know, and admin and all of that. And like some of, sometimes I just want to say like, Hey, this isn’t going to happen not because of any one person.
This just happens because we have 4, 000 people in the same space. Eight hours a day. So stuff is not going to go right. So we don’t have to blame, let’s just fix it and then move forward. And so I know that sounds simplistic when I’m sitting here on a podcast and comparing that to like being the principal or being the department chair or being the coach of a 50 player program that has 10 coaches, I get that that’s a lot smaller, but it’s very similar in how you’re going to lead these people.
And all of the same things are true, right? And so, you know, I, I think one of the things we just talked about, and I, I spoke to our girls volleyball team the other day, I said, one thing we don’t, we don’t blame, we don’t complain, and we don’t defend when we made a mistake. And we’re not talking about defending the pick and roll.
I’m talking about defending your, if you messed up, just own it. You don’t have to defend, well, I was late because blah, blah, blah, or I mouthed off because blah, just own it. And so blaming, complaining, and defending, they just don’t exist. You can’t, you can’t, you can’t lead anybody being that way. And so now I kind of moved on to a tangent from your thing, but the whole example thing you’re welcome.
And it gets me going. Yeah. Welcome. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. So sorry. No, I like it.
[00:50:45] Mike Klinzing: So let me tie this back into. Sort of the whole theme of, of what we talked about along the way. So if we go back to the first question and we’re talking about building that practice plan, right, of an overarching practice plan, so you can make sure that you can get everything you need to get in before the first game or before the next game or whatever it may be day to day.
You’re just trying to, you’re just trying to get all that planned out. Right. And you talked about, it’s not so much about the specific details of what we’re doing on a given day. It’s I want the habits. to be in place so that whatever it is that we’re teaching on that day, whatever practice brings us, we’re ready because we have the right habits.
And that goes to what Jason, what you were talking about. And Rob, what, what the point that you just made where things are going to happen, right? And you don’t know what the details of that thing are going to be. That could be a bad call during a game. It could be a kid breaking a rule or a standard of your program.
It could be a kid. in school that gets in trouble and now you’re dealing with the principal or an assistant principal and the kid and the parent and all these different things and you don’t know what those situations are going to be but if you as the leader in this case if you are able to in advance think about how am I going to handle these situations that I’m the person that is I’m who everyone else is looking for or looking to as how is this person going to handle it I may not know what the situation specifically is going to be.
I may not know what those details are, but I have a pretty good idea of I got to figure out a way to handle it. I always think back to in school when you have a parent who calls you up, right? And they’re upset about the kid’s grade or something happened in your class. Like I oftentimes in gym will have situations where.
Kids will run into each other and one kid will get hurt. Or, you know, I’ll have kids that one kid pushes another kid down. And sometimes that, whatever, there’s, there’s nothing that happens to it. And every once in a while, I’ll get surprised by a phone call of a parent. I’ll say, Hey, I had this happen. Or, Hey, you know, why is my kid getting a C and P or whatever?
And there’s so many people that when they get that call, going back to your BCD thing, Rob, right, that they, They defend, they give a reason why of this or that, or I couldn’t, you know, wasn’t my fault or this. And so often, like if you think about in advance how you want to answer that question or how you want to talk about it, it’s like the parent wants to be heard.
So I always listen. I say, I understand your concern. If this was my child, I’d want, you know, I’d have made the same exact phone call that you’re making. I understand the point that you’re getting at. And then the next step is, Hey, what can we do to make sure that this doesn’t happen again? And so that’s the plan whenever I have one of those conversations.
And inevitably what happens is the parent gets diffused. I hear them out. And then we leave with an with the situation where we figured out that together we’re going to try to do something to make the situation better. And by the time the parent hangs up the phone, they say, Hey, thank you, Mr. Klinzing, appreciate your time.
And what could have been a situation where if I handled it differently and said, all your kids are this or, well, it was the other kid or whatever, that the conversation can go in a completely different way. And I’ve seen many, many people over my time and all different jobs that I’ve been in where they just, they don’t think about it and they just get emotional in this situation.
And you take something that could be very easily solved, just like you described, Rob, and suddenly it’s going a whole different direction. And so I think as a leader, That ability to plan in advance and to build the habit, the process that can go and be applied in any situation can be applied. Like in Jason’s case, talking about dealing with officials or Rob, you’re talking about in a practice setting, how do we make sure we get things in?
To me, all that is just a matter of thinking about the situation ahead of time. How do I want to handle it? What are the ways that I can handle it? And then when it comes up, I just kind of apply it to the Navy SEAL thing, right? You fall to the level of, you fall to the level of your training or your thought process beforehand, if that makes any sense, no
[00:55:05] Rob Brost: doubt.
I think as I’ve gotten more mature as a coach, I think every situation is an opportunity for me to do the right thing, right? And so what the right thing is might not be clear immediately, but it normally becomes clear. Right. And sometimes I have to wait a little bit to get the clarity that I’m seeking.
And, but normally if you have a conflict with a player or you have a conflict with a parent, or you have a conflict with admin, you have a conflict with anybody, both of you are a lot closer than you are far apart because you both really want the same thing. You want the kid to be successful and you want the team to be successful.
And so, you know, if you can, you know, understand that right away and, and, you know, go from there, exactly what you were saying, diffuse and then, and then try to, to move forward and not let that happen again. So. I think this is, you know, it, it always seems no matter what we talk about, we get back to these philosophy things.
And you know, I think that what is the baseline for everything that we do, even you in this podcast, like the baseline is we’re going to be honest. We’re going to be thorough. We’re going to talk about, you know, good stuff. We’re going to provide for listeners, you know, all of those things. And then. When you start serving people, the, the stuff comes back to you.
And so all that stuff that your parents used to say to you when you were like, yeah, right. That’s actually what is happening, like, that’s
[00:56:35] Mike Klinzing: actually what is occurring.
[00:56:37] Rob Brost: And so,
[00:56:37] Mike Klinzing: It’s great. The old saying, I forget who we attribute that to with the culture eats strategy for breakfast, right? I mean, that’s what it comes down to, you know, it doesn’t matter what offense you’re teaching.
It doesn’t matter what disagreement you might find yourself involved in. If you know the way that you’re going to handle it and there’s a, there’s a, just again, you as the leader set the tone for everybody who’s a part of your. Organization, team, however you want to look at it. And when you have those things in place and you’ve thought about them well in advance, it allows you to be in a much stronger position when moments of adversity come along, which goes back to that third point, which is in game coaching.
I would guess then we talk about a skill that’s underrated is just the ability to handle adversity, right? I mean, in whatever form it takes, and that may not even be in an actual basketball game. That may be. the adversity you get when you get a phone call from a parent, or you get a phone call from a teacher because a kid’s in trouble in school, or you get a phone call from an administrator because of X, Y, or Z.
All those things are things that if you, again, think about it in advance, plan out how you’re going to handle things, it’s all going to end up being a much better situation. I think it is interesting, Rob, that Again, we think about the points that we make, and I find myself on the podcast not just with you, but oftentimes a conversation will end up with somebody that I’m talking to.
I’ll be like, oh yeah, this is a chance for me to make this point for the 750th time on the podcast. You know, and just, yes. Inevitably situations just kind of point back to yes, certain things, and I feel like we, we do that and there’s a reason why, because again, those messages are, are really important, so.
Well, we went a little long on this one. We had a couple of tangents, which was good. And I think it was a really good discussion. That was Triple Double #13. Rob, thank you for joining us again, as always.
[00:58:31] Rob Brost: Thanks for having me. It’s always great.
[00:58:31] Mike Klinzing: Make it a Triple Double number 13, always good to have Jason on board and we appreciate all of you being out there in our audience listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.