RYAN VAN ZELST - DREW UNIVERSITY MEN'S BASKETBALL HEAD COACH - EPISODE 1131

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Ryan Van Zelst will enter his first season as the Men’s Basketball Head Coach at Drew University in 2025-26. Most recently, Van Zelst held the post of associate head coach at Division II Millersville University during the 2024-25 campaign, when he helped Millersville to a 19-12 record.

Van Zelst’s career includes head-coaching stops at both Cabrini University and Penn State Abington. He also served as the associate head coach at Landmark Conference rival University of Scranton, where he spent seven years with the Royals. He picked up additional Division III experience as an assistant coach at both York (Pa.) College and his alma mater, Albright College.

In 2017, Van Zelst was named to the NABC 30 Under 30 Team, and he was a part of the NABC Mentor Circle Program in 2021.

As a student-athlete, Van Zelst played three seasons at Albright and was a member of the 2010 team that captured the MAC Commonwealth Conference championship and advanced to the NCAA tournament.

On this episode Mike & Ryan discuss the importance of building relationships with players and fostering a sense of community within the team. Van Zelst emphasizes his commitment to transparency and enthusiasm, highlighting his desire to ensure that every athlete feels valued and understood as they navigate the challenges of a coaching transition. Additionally, he articulates his coaching philosophy, which prioritizes defensive discipline and ball movement, while also adapting strategies to suit the unique strengths of his players. As he embarks on this new chapter at Drew University, Van Zelst expresses his dedication to maintaining the program’s competitive edge and instilling a culture of success and camaraderie.

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Be prepared with a notebook and pen as you listen to this episode with Ryan Van Zelst, Men’s Basketball Head Coach at Drew University.

What We Discuss with Ryan Van Zelst

The opportunity to become the head coach at Drew University and the commitment to building meaningful relationships with players and staff
Fostering a culture of ball movement and unselfish play
Defensive discipline and toughness will be critical to establishing the team’s identity
Utilizing video analysis effectively is essential for reinforcing team principles and recognizing individual player contributions
The impact of coaching extends beyond the court, focusing on developing young men into successful individuals both in sports and life
Maintaining a culture of positivity and transparency
The adaptive nature of coaching requires evaluating personnel and tweaking strategies each season to optimize team performance, ensuring that every player thrives in their roles
Alleviating players’ anxieties during coaching transitions
The emotional connection formed with players often extends beyond their time on the team, highlighting the lasting impact of coaching

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THANKS, RYAN VAN ZELST

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TRANSCRIPT FOR RYAN VAN ZELST – DREW UNIVERSITY MEN’S BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 1131

[00:00:00] Narrator: The Hoop Heads podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball,

[00:00:20] Ryan Van Zelst: Trying to be creative too, and finding different ways to let them know that, hey, this is how we want to play. And honestly, it’s probably the most fun way to play. But having those conversations too helps alleviate some of that stress of guys concerned about maybe getting a certain number of shots. because as we know, in most situations, if things are going right, your best guys are going to get the most shots anyway, even if you play that free flowing ball movement style.

But it’s also just making sure that they understand that as well.

[00:00:44] Mike Klinzing: Ryan Van Zelt will enter his first season as the men’s basketball head coach at Drew University in 20 25, 26. Most recently, van Zest held the position of associate head coach at Division two Millersville University during the 2024-25 campaign when he helped Millersville to a 19 and 12 record.

Van Zell’s career includes head coaching, stops at both Cabrini University and Penn State Abington. He also served as the associate head coach at Scranton, where he spent seven years with the Royals. He picked up additional Division three experience as an assistant coach at both York College and his Alma Mater Albright College in 2017.

Van Zelt was named the NABC 30 under 30 team, and he was a part of the NABC Mentor Circle program in 2021 as a student athlete. Van Zel played three seasons at Albright and was a member of the 2010 team that captured the MAC Commonwealth Conference Championship and advanced to the NCAA tournament.

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[00:02:25] Joe Burke: Hi, this is Joe Burke, head, men’s basketball coach at Skidmore College and you’re listening to The Hoop Heads Podcast.

[00:02:32] Mike Klinzing: Be prepared with a notebook and pen as you listen to this episode with Ryan Van Zelt, men’s basketball head coach at Drew University.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without, at least for the time being my co-host Jason Sunkle.

But I am pleased to be joined by the new men’s head basketball coach at Drew University, Ryan Van Zel. Ryan, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod. I appreciate you having me. Excited to have you on, Ryan, and we are talking to you very shortly after Ryan just took the job at Drew University. So, Ryan, tell me a little bit about just the why.

How’d this take place? What is it about Drew that excited you that got you that opportunity? And we’ll start there and then we’re going to eventually dive into it a little bit more deeply, but just to kind of get it off the top since it’s something that is very fresh as we start the interview.

[00:03:32] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah. So, the why, my journey’s a little bit different being that I was a division three head coach and I spent a lot of time in the division three level as an assistant at the University of Scranton where I was lucky enough to get that coaching job at Penn State Abington. And we had a really good run and we did great.

And you know, I’m not going to sit here and say it was all me. We had great young people that that we just all got on the same page. We did some great things together and then lucky enough to get the Cabrini University job, and I know most people are familiar with that story now, with the school closing and me finding that out.

So and just, just nothing really opened last year. And a good friend of mine, Casey Stitzel, had an assistant spot, so had the opportunity to go with him for a little bit and then drew open, right. And being in the landmark obviously it’s a program I’ve seen have success under Coach McCloy recently, and then before him.

Coach Keckler and those guys, I’ve considered friends. I’ve known, not great, but enough. When you to see him at a recruiting event, you say hi, talk to ’em a little bit. And I know some of the alums just from being in this for a little bit and they all say great things and about the community, the campus, the people that worked there and the program itself.

So for me, it was a no brainer. And the situation I was, and the comfortability that I have within the league and the university and the people that are affiliated with it. So, and then outside of the y the whole process probably took about three weeks. So still digesting a lot of it. Probably that last week of last week of junior, I did a Zoom and it, it kind of just moved.

And the athletic director Christa Racine, she’s fantastic and really was honest and forthright about the process. And unfortunately for me, I feel bad. But when I found out I was at a big time recruiting event, and obviously it’s a live period this past week past weekend. So news spread quick.

I don’t know if Krista was too happy with me. I actually owe her an apology. I have not apologized to her about it yet. So it was hard to kind of keep that under wraps when I found out. And to be honest, over that last four year journey and going through the Cabrini situation and trying to get back to being coach, it was extremely emotional for me.

And I can’t hide anything. You could probably tell as we’re speaking here right now. I’m pretty, not an emotional way, but you know, what you see is what you get. So, just excited. And honestly, all the people I’ve met so far you know, the members on, on the team right now, and then people across campus that were part of the committee, they, they were fantastic.

So couldn’t be happier. Just very quick life changing three weeks here, so.

[00:05:50] Mike Klinzing: We’re going to dive into all that in a little bit more detail and just what it’s been like in the first couple days since you took the job officially and it was announced. And we’ll get into some of the talks that you’ve had with current players and just kind of where you’re thinking about in terms of where you want to take the program and what you’ve done in the past at, at your various stops.

So let’s start though, by going back in time and we’ll eventually work our way back up to, to taking the Drew job here. But let’s go back in time to when you were a kid. Tell me a little bit about how you got into the game of basketball when you were younger. What were some of your first experiences with the game?

[00:06:23] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah, it, it’s interesting. I know a lot of coaches either I have a father, an uncle someone that’s really directly involved with the game of basketball. I didn’t really have that you know, for those that are listening, I don’t know who’s too familiar. I have a twin brother. He is the, the head coach at Arc University.

He’s two minutes older. I like to think I got the better personality and looks. He was a little bit better player than me, and I can admit that. But I really think us having each other drove us in the game. And my dad loved basketball, but he is he is a grocery store manager. He is blue collar.

He was just a fan, right? It’s not like he had these direct ties you know, coaching at a high school, et cetera. So really just put a little tikes net in our house when we were younger and we would just play 100 to 100 almost every single day indoors. And I think my mom and my dad at the time were not too happy about it when we started getting a little bit bigger.

But I really think that that competition piece directly what started directly with just me versus him really just grew the love for the game that we had. And some of our earliest memories are us just on the playground or going to local, local park. Third, fourth grade, and we’re starting to like rem starting to remember some of this stuff and starting to get a little bit competitive, have a little bit of edge, and playing against other kids or playing against my uncles, my cousins, and beating them.

And you know, when you have early success as a kid playing a sport, you just naturally gravitate towards it. So yeah, I just think that, that the real drive just came from my brother and me and him just trying to push each other almost indirectly. because at that age, it’s still just fun. Right. You don’t think about it like that.

Yeah. So and then my dad just being supportive. I almost know, there’s times when I’m like, man I kind of wish my dad was more involved when I was younger, like knowing what we’re doing and pushing us to play basketball at the same time. I kind of like that he was just a store manager, a blue collar guy because he just, he was just watching his two, two sons have fun playing the game that that he loved.

Right. So little bit different than a lot of coaches and but I really just think it was my relationship, my brother.

[00:08:15] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. I do think that having a built-in competitor right there, two minutes away from you Right. That you can. Bang on that you can fight with, that you can compete against all the time.

It’s funny because, so in my family I grew up with all I had, I had, I had one sister and then my current family that my own kids, I have two daughters and a son. So I have never lived in a home with the dynamic of brothers. Never lived in again, when I grew up in a, in a home with just a sister and then now I have two sisters and one son.

So it’s like I never saw in my own home the competitive brother thing going on. And yet I knew lots of families growing up that were my friends that had just boys in the house. And what I will say is, man, those houses you talked about your parents sitting back and kind of watching you guys beat on each other and play one-on-one to a hundred.

And I just remember some of those families, like the knockdown drag out between brothers, like competing in athletics, but then also. One of ’em getting mad at the other and chasing him through the house with a pan and all, just all this cra you know, all this crazy stuff of like, holy cow, man. Like, It just, it just didn’t jive with, again, me and my sister, the way that our interactions were, the way that my kids interact with each other.

because you just don’t have all that, you don’t have all that masculine back and forth you know, that I’m sure that you and your brother have, but at the same time, like you said, the competitiveness that you develop to be able to want to beat your brother. And then just having somebody who is always there.

Right? It’s not, I don’t have to go out on the driveway by myself and imagine I’m playing against somebody. Like the guy I’m playing against is right. Like he’s right there. And I can only imagine again, how a fun that was. But then b, how much it helped you guys develop as athletes. And like you said, not that you were even thinking about that when you first started playing.

Right. You’re just playing because it’s fun and I think that’s ultimately. When you start talking about why do people pick up a basketball, right? You pick up a basketball or you pick up a football or baseball, you pick up and you play because it’s fun. And I think that leads to, as you said, when you have success, success sort of breeds success.

You want to do more, you want to do more with it, you want to do more with it. And so as you guys started to take the game more seriously, as you got a little bit older, how did you start to think about developing yourselves as players? Obviously not the same way that players developed themselves today. You guys were probably right on the edge of when maybe there was one guy in town that was maybe doing some training, but certainly nothing like there is today.

So just tell me a little bit about how you guys went about trying to get better once you realized that that’s what you wanted to do.

[00:11:09] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah, it’s I can say this too, we did, we probably peaked in eighth grade. So I was, I was this size in eighth grade and so was my brother. So we were in the Philly area, we’re getting recruited by all the Catholic League schools.

So it was neat. You know, we, we were, we were like really kind of one at that point, but nah, it’s interesting. You know, I, we did miss that. We missed that you know, the trainer always having someone in town and pay 30, 40 bucks, have someone to go work out. We really didn’t have that. And where we grew up outside, like lower bucks, we was just always going out to our courts and just finding different games.

And we went to a, a private school in high school and even grade school, we’d love to go play the, the, the kids that played in the public schools, like the Pennsbury, the Trumans, like, because we just wouldn’t see them that much. So and we were super competitive, as you can imagine circling back a little bit, like if, if me and him were on the same team, it, it’s almost life and death because we know the battles that we had against each other when we were playing against each other.

So just always, it just, it created a different atmosphere, I think. And I know it’s just young people have it differently with the trainers and everything scheduled. For us, it was just, Hey, let’s drive around. Let’s ride our bikes, let’s drive around, let’s. An older guy we know, just drive us to the park or walk to the park and just go hoop and just try to measure ourselves in that regard.

And then, okay, if I’m not as good, I get humbled a little bit. I go back to the driveway or go out front and I’ll work on this or work on, work on that. So there’s definitely positives and negatives. I think one of the positives in my opinion is it just kept it a little bit more fresh.

The randomness of it, of going to a park challenge yourself and being okay with failure. I think it made it a little bit easier to accept that because you’re just, you’re just playing. It wasn’t scheduled. It wasn’t planned. And then I think some of the weaknesses, I think the skill level in basketball’s so much better because of the way things are now with young, with young people.

So Right. You know, with any with any situation there’s always positives and negatives, but yeah, we just we’d always just try to challenge ourselves and go out there and be better against people we didn’t know. And probably similar to where, where you were and when you were coming up.

So a little bit old school with that. Didn’t really have that. We did have awesome, unbelievable high school coaches at the time. Would bring us in the gym and we’d go in there and shoot. Right? But it wasn’t, Hey, there’s these four cones, do this Euro step pro hop but it was like, kind of on that ground floor.

So I love the way I I, the way we had it when we were coming up, I thought it allowed us to meet different people too. You had to get outside your comfort zone. And I think that’s massive when it comes to growth in any, any part of life. But at the same time, yeah, would we have loved to have a trainer?

because I wasn’t the best shooter at that point in my career. Absolutely. So a little bit of both.

[00:13:36] Mike Klinzing: Well, here’s what I always say to that question or that, that concept, right? I love the era that I grew up in where I’m playing pickup basketball and I’m playing against people from all different places.

I’m playing against all different ages. I’m having to prove myself when I’m. 14, showing up as the little kid on the court, trying to be the first guy there so I can play in the first game and then hanging around until everybody’s done. So I can play in the last game. Even if I don’t get in any other games besides those two, I know I’m going to at least get to play in the get to play in those.

And I think that I wouldn’t trade, I wouldn’t trade my upbringing in the game for anything that’s going on today. And yet at the same time, I think you make a tremendous point about the skill level of players today. And I think about, again, I’m old, so 55 years old, we’re talking, it’s a long time ago, Ryan, when I’m playing high school basketball.

But you think about the ninth, 10th, 11th, 12th man on a high school team back in the era when I was playing and the skill level there compared to what a ninth, 10th, 11th, 12th man on a high school team can do today in terms of handling the ball and shooting it. I mean, it’s not even, it’s not even comparable.

I mean, every, every team back when I was in high school had. 1, 2, 3 guys that were just football players that were going out looking to crunch somebody on a screen or, Hey man, just grab some rebounds. Don’t, don’t even think about dribbling or even, even, even a putback man, kick that thing back out and now everybody’s skilled.

And so it’s definitely a different, it’s definitely a different world than the one that you grew up in or the one that I grew up in. As you said, there’s pluses and minuses to everything, no matter how you no matter how you look at it. I think we’re always biased towards the experience that, towards the experience that we had.

So I would agree with you there that I love the pickup basketball scene. It’s one of the things that I’m probably most sad about for my own kids, that they never really got to experience, sort of the pickup basketball and just going and finding a game. And instead they’re always in a gym with dad watching or mom watching and a scoreboard and officials and all that kind of stuff.

And they missed out on some of the experiences, like the ones that the ones that you and I had. So tell me a little bit about, your recruitment and the decision that you make to go and play college basketball, what’s, what’s that like to go to you end up going to Albright, what’s it, what’s the decision process look like for you?

[00:15:57] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah you know, a just like we’re talking about pickup and some of that stuff au was kind of just at the forefront. When I, when I was playing it wasn’t there wasn’t a tournament every weekend it was still local a u teams, I think I played for a team called Lower Bucks Lightning.

So it wasn’t a driver in recruitment. So really for us my brother and I was more just the high school scene. So we’d go to team camps, Eastern Invitational and some of those camps like that right back, back when those were still big deal too. And we both got recruited a little bit by some local division three schools in the Philadelphia area.

My brother got recruited by a couple more than I did, and we kind of just we were late in the process. I think it was late May, and we just looked at each other and we’re like, Hey, like, it sounds so silly when you think about it now. Honestly, we didn’t want to, we didn’t want to live with anyone else.

We’re so used to being with each other. More so just relationship wise and just basketball wise. And we both just Albright was one of the few schools that was recruiting us together to come to come to Albright together. So coach Ferry still talk to him. You know, he, he’s a mentor, he’s a great friend.

Till this day he, he took us both and he’d call the this was before cell phones. He’d call our house phone and he’d be like, alright, Ryan, I’m done talking to you. Put Adam on the phone. I’d be yelling upstairs, Adam come down. Like, it was just, it was one of those things that he did a really good job and made us feel like he did want both of us.

Because it’s tough. We’re both 5, 9, 5, 10 guards playing in the Phil Philadelphia. You know, there’s a lot of us out there. So, made that decision looking back on it now as a coach, in terms of playing time, probably not the smartest for, like I said, two guys that had very similar skill sets to go to the same school to play college basketball, but.

It’s one of those things, I say this to everyone I recruit to it’s the best decision I ever made. Yeah. Do I wish I played more and had a better playing career? A hundred percent. But I’m best friends with everybody I played with at Albright College. I mean, I get on the shore with those guys all the time.

I have a wedding coming up for one of my buddies I played with. And you know, just being around my brother for another four years was special and I think that’s probably a driver in why I got into this profession. And also at the same time between Coach Ferry, coach Britt Moore, who’s one of my best friends, he is now going to be coaching against him in the landmark, which I’m not looking forward to, but he was an assistant at the time, Kevin Driscoll.

I mean, those guys, they just made us feel so comfortable and created such an environment where we loved it. And you’re going to have tough days at practice where you know, you’re mad at the coach or you’re not getting the playing time. But looking back, I don’t I don’t really have any negative memories.

I love my experience there and I am happy I won my brother, even though he played a lot more than I did. And I can admit that now as a 37-year-old. But we all make decisions. I have no regrets about what I did and mainly for the reasons I just mentioned.

[00:18:30] Mike Klinzing: I think Ryan, what you just said hits home for me when you talked about just what the experience was like, and it’s interesting that there, I think, are a lot of people that had an opportunity to play college basketball or college sports and you know, when you think about what it’s like when you are a high school player.

And the amount of, and I don’t even know if pressure is the right word, but Right. Everybody’s constantly asking you if, if you want to play college basketball, right? There’s the constant stream of where are you going to go, who’s, who’s recruiting you? Everybody’s looking at social media, you’re looking at the guys you’re playing against.

You’re looking at where they’re going. You’re looking at the offers that they’re posting, you’re looking at schools that you’re thinking about and who’s going there and all this. And there’s all this stuff and all this pressure. And clearly there’s, in a lot of people’s minds, there’s the division one or bust mentality.

And what I’ve come to realize over time, and I don’t know if I would’ve realized this back when I was a kid, when I was playing, but realizing it now as a parent, as a coach, and kind of looking at the situation and when I talk to people today, I’m always like, look like your experience, whether you play at a division three school, you played at NAI School, you played at division two.

You played at division one. Ultimately, guess what? You’re going to go to practice every day. You’re going to hopefully playing some games, you’re going to have teammates, you’re going to have a coaching staff like that. That stuff is universal at every level, and if you have a great experience at whatever level you’re at, then you’re coming out of it richer than you could ever imagine.

And I think you just really said that really well in terms of what you got out of it. Far exceeds anything that you probably could have dreamed about right when you were 18 and made the decision, like your, your priority when you were 18 of making that decision probably is a lot different than when you look back on what you got out of it.

Ultimately. I think it’s the it’s the experience and it’s not everybody gets hung up on the level, the, this, the, that. And the honest truth is once you decide where you’re going to go, there’s like your family and maybe like two other people that. Care at all about, about where you’re, about, where you’re going to go and follow you and pay attention to what you’re doing wherever you end up.

And to me it just comes back to, like you said, it comes down to the experience. And I always think that when you’re coaching at the division three level, you’re coaching at the NAI level, you’re coaching at the division two level. Like I’ve had so many coaches tell me, Ryan, that look, I’m selling the basketball program, I’m selling myself as a coach.

I’m selling the experience, I’m selling the my team, your teammate, your future teammates, right? These are the guys that are going to be, you’re going to be in their weddings, they’re going to be in your wedding. That’s what you really are trying to sell. When it comes down to, yeah, the basketball’s important, everybody wants to win or lose, but man, that experience is so important.

[00:21:37] Ryan Van Zelst: Absolutely. It’s, it’s everything. And honestly, that’s what drives me as a coach and that’s what I love about the division three level because the impact is different. And don’t get me where I love my opportunity here at the scholarship level. The talent, et cetera, et cetera, go on and on. But division three level it’s just a little bit more, it, it’s more about the fa, it’s about the program, it’s about the you, you just feel it a little bit different.

It’s just a different vibe in, in the gym in the day to day, in my opinion.

[00:22:02] Mike Klinzing: Yep. Couldn’t agree more. So when you guys get there to school at Albright, are you guys thinking already that you want to coach? Or what’s your mindset in terms of, are you just still thinking about being a basketball player at that point?

Obviously, as you said, your background’s a little different. You didn’t have necessarily have any coaches in your life that you were watching in, in your house being like, Hey, I can see what the coach’s life is like. I see what all this behind the scenes stuff is. So what was your mentality going into school?

Were you guys, both you and your brother thinking about coaching at that point, or was that something that wasn’t on your radar yet?

[00:22:35] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah, when we went to Squaw, I’ll be, I’ll be very honest, we were, we were not focused on the right things at all. My brother and I, we weren’t the best students. And I spin this all time too.

Can’t run away from it, right? So probably my biggest regret in life too is not doing better as an undergrad. But really we just wanted to play, wanted to hang out with our friends and just make the most of our time there. I tell this to everyone if it, if it wasn’t, I know, brought his name up already, but if it wasn’t for Brit Moore assistant, we just really clicked with him.

And we just enjoyed being around him and the way he coached and the way he connected and built those relationships with everyone on our roster. It kind of gave us a pathway of, of what we wanted to do. When we were undergrads, I’d probably say junior, senior year, my brother and I had some conversations about like, Hey, this is something we can see ourselves doing full time.

And actually my brother hung on at Albright when he, when he graduated and helped him out for a year. And myself, I made the mistake of trying to work in the real world. Absolutely hated it for six months. Probably was awful at it, to be honest with you too. And I saw my brother yeah, the money’s not the same.

I was making more money, but. We’ve never viewed life like that. Like I’m trying to make much as, as much money as possible, and I saw him enjoying it and building relationships with the guys and staying around the sport. We grow up loving. So that’s kind of how I got Dr. Driven back into it. But during our undergrad years, we probably didn’t think too much of it until our junior, senior year because we were having such a great experience.

Right.

[00:23:55] Mike Klinzing: Did you guys have conversations with your coaching staff about that? Did you start talking about, Hey, we may want to at some point get into coaching, or we’re thinking about coaching? Was that a conversation that you had beyond just the two of you?

[00:24:10] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah I would say we, we had our conversation then Britt Moore, coach Ferry, those guys pulled Adam aside.

Obviously not going to keep both of us to hang around. But they pulled my brother aside. And they asked him like, Hey, do you I know you Andry talk about this a little bit, like, is this something you would be interested in? And. And then they that kind of drove us. And I I saw him just having fun and enjoying it and just seeing the impact he was having, even as a one year out of school when I was like, this is something I want to do.

And it’s funny, I say this to everybody too. When you look back, I’m 37 years old. Almost every decision I’ve ever made has been based on a game, a, a sport, right? And it’s silly. I laugh about it and I smile, but then you think about it and you’re like, wow, this is how much I love this sport and this game, and how much impact it’s had on my life.

The friendships, the relationships. So it really is why we just we, we put both of our feet in and I’m, I’m extremely happy coach Ferry and Coach Moore, and Coach Driscoll created that environment. We’re able to have that conversation with my brother to kind of bring me into it as well.

[00:25:11] Mike Klinzing: When you get into it and you get back and get the opportunity at Albright to coach for the first time, do you know right away that. You are in the right spot. Obviously your brother had talked to you about it. Obviously you knew that, hey, the real world job wasn’t, wasn’t what you thought. So clearly the game is trying to draw you back in.

But what do you remember about that first season, the first couple months on the job coaching? What’d you love about it Right away?

[00:25:40] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah, so really so like I said, I’m from the Philadelphia area. Anyone from the Philadelphia area thinks Philadelphia is the center of the universe. And I actually made a decision to move out to York College to go out with Matt Hunter.

Took a chance on me, owe him indebted to him forever. I think I made $4,000. I still don’t know how I survived actually. And yeah, it was a lot. You know, he, he’s very demanding, unbelievable basketball coach. He actually taught me how to work. And I think moving away from Philly and moving New York, Pennsylvania is the best thing that ever could have happened for me because I know I talked about a little bit earlier too.

It got me out of my comfort zone, put me in conversations with people I don’t necessarily know. Put me in an environment where. I can’t just lean on my brother anymore, right? I’m just used to having someone always next to me and he wasn’t there anymore. So it grew me up as an individual. And spending those two years with him told me everything about how to work, being in the office every single day showing up at a certain time, being productive is a time to joke and mess around as a college coach, but is also time you have to get things done.

And then being a young coach around a program that actually had a lot of success and then when he took over, it was in the middle of a rebuild. There were some trying times and it was the best thing that could have happened. Going through that struggle with him and watching him deal with some difficult conversations, situations, and at that age you don’t really know anything and you probably think you have more answers than you really do.

So just having him kind of teach me and be super patient with me was, was everything. And he, he’s he’s still one of my best friends to this day. So tho those two years at York really set the foundation for my path and who I, who I think I am as a coach.

[00:27:05] Mike Klinzing: What’s an area that when you look back.

You think, man, I really knew nothing about that when it came to coaching. You’re not allowed to say everything because I know everything is the standard answer, but what, what, what’s one or two things that you really felt like you came into it and you were, whether it was just surprised that coaches had to do those things, or just an area that you feel like you really grew early in your career from where you started?

[00:27:30] Ryan Van Zelst: Honestly, I think from where I started, I just think it’s some of the I always say this, I think everything’s connected. How you do anything is how you do everything. As a head coach, I preached that and even as associate head coach at Millersville, but back then when I was young, I probably didn’t value the day to day as much.

Or say a student athlete showed up two minutes late or showed up you know, isn’t practicing super hard or, or says something strange. A coach that probably is not appropriate. At that age it kind of just goes past you and you’re you know, something’s off. You know, it’s not right.

It’s probably not how things should be, how things should operate. And you know, maybe I I’d see coach Hunter at the time be really upset and I’d look at, I’d be like, oh, coach, we’ll have a conversation with him. And I didn’t, I didn’t understand the gravity of those small instances that impact actual winning and actual togetherness in a program.

So just going through that from when I got there in August to May, just seeing how much, all that little stuff day to day, that has nothing to do with basketball, 99% of the time impacts winning. And that’s winning on and off the court. It just changes your mindset really quick. But when you’re young and no, I wasn’t a guy that got in trouble or didn’t any of that stuff, so I probably didn’t understand when someone didn’t.

Right. So it just really changed my view on the day to day of, of how important all that stuff really is.

[00:28:47] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. I do think that anybody that I’ve talked to that gets into coaching for the first time. Maybe didn’t have somebody who already worked in the coaching profession that was a part of their life. I think the thing that always surprises ’em is the amount of different things outside of actual coaching of basketball that A, you have to do, but also B, as you said, that have an impact on winning and losing.

And I think as a player, right, you, you never have the perspective really of what the coaching staff is doing. I know when I was playing college basketball, I was like, I show up for practice and I’m there for my three hours and coaches probably get there 15 minutes before I do, and they probably leave 15 minutes after practice is over, I’m in the shower and whatever I’m going to eat at the dorm and they’re already home.

And obviously nowhere near the truth as to what, as to what the coaching staff is doing. But I think if you haven’t been around it. You really don’t have a good grasp on all the things that go into running a successful program that have nothing to do with the actual coaching of basketball on the floor, which I think is something that, again, a lot of players, if you don’t have coaches that you’ve lived with in your home or somebody in your family, I don’t think a lot of players realize the amount of time that coaches put in.

It’s just that I just don’t think they, you, you have a perspective of that as a player.

[00:30:13] Narrator: Oh, absolutely.

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All right, tell me a little bit about getting an opportunity after you’re have, you’ve been an assistant you get an opportunity at, you’re at Albright for a year. You’re at York for two you go to Scranton then you get an opportunity to be to be a head coach. Tell me a little bit about the transition from being an assistant to being a head coach.

[00:31:15] Ryan Van Zelst: Oh, it’s it’s funny, I Carl Danzig’s, like a second father of me, like head coach at University of Scranton. I’ll never forget my first week where I haven’t been practicing yet. I said, Hey man, you want me back? Like, this is a lot. And it’s interesting you know, my situation’s strange. It’s my third time taking over a job going to Drew.

But going back to Addington that first time, like realizing what needs to be done you just get overwhelmed with the day to day, I think. And especially at the division three level because I think it’s 90% everything else, 10% actual basketball at our level. because you’re doing everything. You’re an academic advisor you’re making sure guys are taking the right classes, they’re going to graduate on time, making sure you have the right people in the program at the same time when you take over the program.

Trying to make sure I’m building those relationships with the young people that are there. At Abington we had a ton of older guys. A lot of guys that have been in the program that just didn’t, haven’t seen a lot of success, but we’re really, really hungry. So I think my energy and whether they were doing the right or wrong things before on and off the court it’s almost irrelevant.

I think it was just some, a new face, a new voice, a, a new energy. So I really, I really made sure I was in that office every single day. They saw me, they understood how important it was to me. And that’s the simplest of tasks. I mean, it could be sweeping the floor before practice, like I’m going to do the best of my ability.

So I’ve really tried to pride myself on that, on all that little stuff. So they kind of could feel who I was as a person before ever told them they needed to jump to the ball or fight over the ball screen or be up to touch on the ball screen. Right? So I really worked really, really hard to build those relationships.

But yeah, to say not to sit here and say I wasn’t overwhelmed and I’d be a liar and I say this to everyone the first time you take over a job especially at division three because it’s just you, especially these smaller division three schools. Everything is on you. So and actually a coach of the Peace Act that coaching has now gave me some of the best advice ever.

You know, it’s what you make it. And for me I don’t know if this is a good thing, but this is my life. Like, I love what I do. I love being in the gym. And if I ha did I have an idea what I was doing those first 6, 7, 8 months, probably not. But you just keep throwing things at the wall and mixing up ideas.

I think I was a little bit lucky with taking over Abington because I was an assistant for so long and man, Carl Danzig, he is, he’s fantastic. And he taught me so much. And not about basketball, just how to treat young people and how to be patient when it’s time to be patient, how, how to push when it’s time to push.

And I would’ve never been able to do what I helped that program do. I hate saying I, we would’ve never been able to do what we did as a program at Abington if it wasn’t for Carl Danzi and spending all that time with them. But no, it, it was overwhelming. There’s, there’s nothing. But I get emotionally to talking about that year because those guys did everything for me and helped me get to where I have to get to, but I would’ve traded it for the world and

[00:34:06] Mike Klinzing: it was an unbelievable experience.

When you went into that year, obviously you had played for coach under several different head coaches. How did you go about, for lack of a better way of saying it, collecting things that you wanted to be a part of your program, good and bad things from your head coaches, Hey, I like this. Hey, I don’t like that.

Hey, if I’m ever in this situation, this is what I would do. Hey, if I’m ever in this situation, I really didn’t like the way that that went, so maybe I would try something different. How did you go about sort of organizing those thoughts? Were you collecting the old fashioned three ring binders? Are you going Google Drive?

Are you, what’s, what’s your process for. Organizing yourself so that eventually, if you were to get that opportunity, which you eventually got at Abington, how were, how were you preparing for that when you were an assistant in terms of collect, collecting, basketball things, for lack of a better way of saying it?

[00:35:07] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah, I will say that was, that is one of the things that helped me big time was being around so many different coaches. because like you said, you, you just, you find, you find information, things you like, things you don’t like how guys speak at practice, how they run, practice, what they believe in offensive defensively.

And I can say this, I think I got this from my grandma. I don’t throw anything out for some reason, it’s kind of strange for my generation, big believer in three ring binders. I have a binder from every season I ever coached. I think I still have every practice plan I’ve ever been a part of. Any notes I’ve taken on, or whether it was Coach Hunter or Coach Ferry.

Coach Danzi. Coach Danzi wrote everything on pencil. So you can imagine they’re starting to, like, that’s starting to fade a ta all the practice plans. But I still have them all in binders. And I would always use them. I mean, I remember my first week of practice just flipping through binders over the last, oh my god, eight, nine years as an assistant.

Just figuring out pre-practice stuff I liked the way I, the pacing I liked at practice. So just picking up as much information I can. Another thing I really try to do is I try to write a lot of things down when I hear ’em I don’t think I have the best memory, but if I’ve write something down, I’m pretty good with it.

So just collecting as much information as I can from the people that are within my my circle, the, my mentors. And then another thing I think that’s helped me a ton is just going to a ton of different practices growing up. And level to me is not a big driver in my coaching career, but the thing I love about going to a division one, division two practices you know, obviously they’re going in the summer, they’re going earlier, they’re just so much further ahead than you are at the division three level.

So you kind of just pick up a different, a different pace, a different process because they can, they can move a little bit different, they can spend more time on certain things. So you find little details, little touches. So I’ve been to a bunch of different individual one practices over my eight, nine years moving moving over the time.

And the other thing that tell me too is just being a twin is a blessing in a way, in this profession. because it’s created such a larger network for me, just knowing that Adam’s creating this network, I’m creating this network and then we’re so close where we just, we have each other to bounce ideas off of as well.

So I’ve been blessed in that regard too. But I I’ll have a binder heading into Drew too. I’ll have two binders with notes and

[00:37:10] Narrator: practice plans going,

[00:37:12] Ryan Van Zelst: can’t get away from it. It’s just who I’m,

[00:37:16] Mike Klinzing: how often do you talk to your brother during a season?

[00:37:19] Ryan Van Zelst: Oh man. So we had some weird situations where we had two years.

We played each other. We split one-on-one. He got him the last one, so that stinks. We did beat him the first time. That felt really good. I was hoping we wouldn’t have had to play him again. But then the Cabrini had him on the schedule. He is giving me a hard time because it’s a home game. You know how it’s a coach.

So I was like, damn, okay. So we went and the, but you know, we had to do, do, we had to do, we got even, we’ll never play each other again, I hope, unless it’s at the ncaa, a tournament level, and then I wouldn’t even care at all. But during the season, oh man, we, it’s embarrassing how much we talk. We’re best friends.

We probably talk two, three times a day, whether that’s texting each other, nonsense just jokes. But usually in season we’ll call each other. We’ll always bounce ideas off each other. Especially now that we’re kind of outside the realm of playing. You know, we’ll probably recruiting against each other a little bit, being in the MidAtlantic region, but I just, I don’t see us playing, so it just creates way more conversation.

And I love it because I do think we’re similar in the way we look at the game offensively and defensively, but I do think our coach style, our coaching style’s a little bit different. So he’s been a great resource for me too. So, honestly, to answer your question, probably talk too much.

[00:38:27] Mike Klinzing: Well, let’s put it this way.

There’s nobody that you’re going to trust more to bounce an idea off of, right? You that you know, you put that idea out there and your brother’s going to give you honest feedback and you guys can help one another. And clearly with your different experiences and just to be able to have somebody that you’re that tight with, to be able to pick up the phone and just have them as a resource, I can only imagine is invaluable.

Just thinking about the guys that pick up and call people that they work for, people that they worked with you know, everybody’s got a network, but to be able to have your brother that is in a similar position to you and again has gone through some of the same experiences and yet as you said, there’s still enough difference, that his input can be valuable to you and your input can be valuable to him.

I can only imagine just, again, the, the value of, of one another as, as a basketball resource beyond all the family stuff and everything that goes in with a, to to having a sibling. Very cool that you guys are able to again, maintain that kind of relationship despite the fact that you know, you had to, you had to match up with each other on the on the sidelines, which I’m sure is again, a, a series of a series of mixed emotions there without without a doubt.

[00:39:37] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah. Yeah. Mixed emotions is the perfect way to describe it. It’s it was neat for everyone that was involved. It was not fun for my brother and I.

[00:39:44] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, I’m sure. I can only, I can only imagine what that what, what that was like emotionally trying to figure out how to, how to handle it and how to, how to go about coaching against your brother.

It’s had to be, had to be tough. All right. Let’s move to your next job, which is a pretty unique situation. There are very, very few people who have experienced what you experienced at Cabrini. So just give our audience an idea of. What that was like taking the job. And then you get some news dropped on you shortly thereafter.

So walk us through that.

[00:40:20] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah, I I mean, I was ecstatic. The CabrinIt’s a brand name, especially being from the Philadelphia area, that’s a destination job for me. And I said that’s probably a place I would’ve never left, right? You know, I’m a division three guy and I, you could be very successful there.

It’s been proven Marcus Kahn, John Zeke, those guys are legends and those guys have done an unbelievable job. And it was tough. You know, we had about six, seven weeks, worked really, really hard to flip the roster. Kind of got caught in a rebuild on top of the school closing, getting that news.

So just a really difficult situation. I say this to everyone, I’ve been asked this a billion times and you know, I was obviously on D three hoops talking about this. People ask about how was what it was like, and did Kate Corcoran know the ad? People don’t understand. Kate Corcoran is one of the best athletic directors I ever worked for.

I love that woman. She’s, she’s fantastic. I have no ill will to anyone involved. It was just a terrible situation. Well, yeah. What am I sure some people knew and information didn’t get out a thousand percent. Would that have changed the decision? You know, if I had that a little bit before maybe, but looking back on it now, it, it’s probably one of the best things that happened to me.

One, it made me a better coach, made me a better person, made me a more patient human and those relationships, the student athletes and the young guys that stayed in the program with me, I mean, I love those guys. I would do anything for them. And yeah. Did we lose four starters right off the rip after the news?

Absolutely. And the competitor in me was I sad, yes, I’d be lying if I told you I wasn’t. But to know that we’ve rallied and had a season and we’re competitive in a lot of games in a schedule that we probably shouldn’t have been playing. At that time where the program was. It’s something I’m actually really proud of in a weird way.

And to be able to get through it you know, I would’ve never got it through it without the loved ones in my life too. I mean, don’t get me wrong, they probably heard me complain a lot because it was tough. And you want to win games and you get in it to weigh in and do great things and leave this lasting legacy.

And they know it was only one year and there was no real legacy to be, to, to be had. And just really trying to steer the ship for a year and make sure that you know, a program like Cabni has a graceful landing. I did take a lot of pride in that, but there were tough times. But it made it made me who I am and it, it absolutely made me a better coach.

And I hope that those guys, and they know this, that I’m in their lives forever. And I hope it made them stronger as well too, because going through that kind of adversity, especially as a young person, I mean, that should prepare you for anything. And yeah, there, there’s tough times, whether you’re you’re closing or not, but for them, everything’s kind of timed, multiplied by 10.

I kind of word it as with them. But the fact that we made it through. They’re, they know I’m in their life forever. And hopefully they’ll use me as a resource forever. Something I’m really, really proud of and yeah, did I want to be a coach and continue to build that program and get it back to where it was when they were in the national title?

Hell yeah. But you know what? That’s life. And to sit here and complain about it and kind of be the victim, it’s not going to do anything for you anyway. So you have to kind of swing get, make the most out of a tough situation. And hopefully looking back even 10 years from now, I can still feel this way because right now I still do.

I feel like we did the most with what, with the, with the hand we were dealt with.

[00:43:24] Mike Klinzing: What were the conversations like with the guys who decided to stick around? What were you talking about in the locker room? Just in terms of keeping guys heads up, keeping their spirits up, making sure that they understood that despite the fact that there wasn’t necessarily a long-term future at Cabrini, that what they were doing in the moment.

That it was important and that it mattered. How did you guys talk about that when you were in the locker room together, you and the players?

[00:43:56] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah. You know, first and foremost, it was really important to just create a safe space. So, not that I’ve really threw it at them every day at practice, but I just tried to remind them how important every single day is indirectly to value that, and honestly the value, you know?

Yeah, you, you don’t want to take pride because you want to represent Cabrini the last year, but at the end of the day, that was the last time that group was going to be together. Those friendships will look different, feel different moving forward, because you’re not going to see ’em in the gym every day. You’re not going to be doing two line progression with them every single day to get warmed up for practice.

So for me, it was really pushing those relationship relationships and that brotherhood and valuing our time together because it was so limited. Especially for the team was basically freshman and sophomores, so reminding them that, Hey man, let’s get the most out of this. And whether we got better that day or didn’t they need to understand that, you know.

It’s not going to look the same wherever you end up that next year. So having those conversations with them. And then I thought a really important thing for the group was making sure that I was never negative in that gym. Every time I walked in the gym, every time I had an individual meeting, team meeting, film session, I was never showing any kind of sadness, any kind of, oh, woe is me.

because guess what? Life is hard. And almost that situation, yeah, it’s a very difficult situation, but that’s a microcosm of life in a way. I mean, everyone is going to struggle with something, whether it’s known or unknown. I mean, our situation was just extremely visible. So for me I want to make sure that they understand, yeah, I’m sad.

Like, yeah, it’s hard. But they need to know, Hey, I’m still working 10, 12 hour days to make sure that our scout’s right, that I’m mixing up our practice plan every day to keep it fresh. That I’m having conversations with our leadership team about what’s going on among the group and how we can get better.

So really it was trying to keep the situation as normal as possible. An extremely un normal situation. And just keeping our, and keeping that po that positivity and no, yeah. When we won, did we celebrate a little bit harder than we probably would’ve in a normal year? Absolutely. But I also wanted to know how valued they were and they did some really special things as a group in a really quick time and the support we did get from the alums and the community, the Cabrini alums, that was special.

I’ve never seen anything like that and how much they supported the young men in our program. I’ll never forget that

[00:46:14] Mike Klinzing: when that season ends, and obviously everyone knows that they’re going to have to move on to someplace new yourself and all the players. How did you, in addition to working on your own job search, how did you help your guys to find their next landing spot?

What was that process like for you?

[00:46:41] Ryan Van Zelst: It was emotional. There was a lot of ups and downs because the reality of it, some of those guys were never going to play again and or, or get the opportunity to play again. And it breaks your heart. Because timing in life is everything, situation, et cetera, et cetera.

But you know, we had individual meetings with, with each and every, every single guy and told them, Hey what, what’s important to you? What school is your major? Do you want to stay in the Philly area where do you see yourself? And then they told them when we, when they came in, to have a list of five to 10 schools, I called a ton of schools last year and was just extremely transparent.

And that’s hard because you get caught in that fine line of selling your student athlete because you care about them deeply and you love them, but you also have to be honest with, with colleagues and other coaches, because that’s your reputation too. So there were some very difficult conversations, and I think I learned a lot about myself and in this industry as a whole, during all that.

At the end of the day, I was doing everything I can to get our student athletes to, to different programs and you know, you also have student athletes that probably want to try to get to a higher level. And having those conversations is hard. And who am I to tell someone that, hey don’t try. I mean, you should always try, but you also have to tell ’em the truth too, right?

So just a lot of operating in that gray area with our student athletes and having some tough conversations but also being truthful with them too. So I’d like to I think, I’m pretty sure 55, 60% of our guys found new homes and still text with a majority of them you know, biweekly, monthly.

And I’m really proud of that. I mean, is it ideal for some of them? Is their playing time look a little bit different at certain places? Probably. But I’m just happy they’re getting an education

[00:48:17] Narrator: and continuing to play the game they love.

[00:48:22] Mike Klinzing: Tell me about your job search. Yeah,

[00:48:24] Ryan Van Zelst: that was tough. After Cabrini was tough and.

I think I just said it, but timing in this profession is everything. You have one good year. You, you exceed expectations. You break school records. You’re really, you’re pick you, you have it, you have that juice, you have that aura. And it, it just, it just moves different. The job, the job search moves different.

So it’s really interesting for me after going from Abington to Cabrini I had some good options and my name just, it carried a little bit more weight, right? I can say this now, after Cabrini we didn’t do great and yeah as many division three jobs didn’t open up in our region and the area that I want to stay in within the three hour radius, three hour radius of Philadelphia, maybe a little bit further it was a little bit of humble pie, right?

You go from being really confident, feeling really good. And it was hard. And for me not to sit here and say I wasn’t emotional about it and just couldn’t really get anything going. I had some. Some phone interviews and great coaching jobs. I just, just couldn’t get anything moving. And if I didn’t have the support system and the coaching mentors and friends in this profession, I had, I, who knows, maybe I would’ve been out.

Right. So yeah, it was extremely emotional and tough and I’m blessed Coach Tsel, Casey Stitzel. My brother worked for him a long time ago. The timing was perfect. His two assistants got head coaching jobs at Division III institutions and he knew I was a coach and I was looking to stay in it.

And he there was just a natural trust because we knew each other as friends first. He gave me a great opportunity and I loved it. He told me a lot, told me a lot, a lot about life and he’s an unbelievable manager, manager of people. I’ve never seen anything like it. He’s probably the best I’ve ever seen do it.

And you know, it’s funny, I think in the PS a division two, you’re managing a lot of big personalities and he was great and he taught me so much about that and. Making that call to the guys at Millersville to let them know I was living, it was emotional, it was hard. It, like every coach would tell you, that’s probably one of the worst parts about the jobs because especially going back to assistant I’m not the heavy anymore.

I can build those relationships and I did really enjoy that. I will say that that year those guys were coming to me, that they stopped coming to me when I was head coach. So it was really hard. I mean, they have great people in that program. It’s, it’s, it’s probably, it’s one of the best division two programs in the region.

They’re going to be trending towards the country and that’s all because of coach tit on the people he brings in. But no, it, it, that process was very difficult until I got settled in there. And I I love that, probably do anything for them in that program, but moving three times in three years was not enjoyable.

I do love Lancaster, pa, big proponent of the city. It’s great. But knowing I have to move again here in the next couple weeks it’s a lot. It’s been lot. So just a different journey. Everyone has their own path, so just works the way it does. Right.

[00:51:06] Mike Klinzing: Been a head coach. And then going back to being an assistant, you just mentioned that one of the things that’s different is that relationship with players, right?

Players are going to be much more likely to come to the assistant coach and ask questions, confide, all those types of things. because again, ultimately as the assistant coach, you’re not the one making that decision about who plays and who doesn’t play. But when you think about your two experiences as a head coach and then coming back to being an assistant, did you learn anything as a head coach that made you a better assistant?

Did you look at the assistant coaches through a different lens that helped you to become a better assistant when when you go back to Millersville?

[00:51:50] Ryan Van Zelst: No, absolutely. And Casey, coach Stenzel and I, Casey and I talk about it all the time. It was hard. The two, the first two months were very difficult because you’re in charge.

You know, you’re doing things your way, you have your thoughts and then and obviously I’m trying to feel him out as a head coach, as assistant, you’re just going to do what’s kind of expected of you, right? What you’re kind of told to do and what your expect and just do what the expectations are.

So for me, those first two months were tough. Were just and coach gave me a ton of freedom. So I’m not, I’m not saying I I wasn’t coach in the offensive and defense, but just everyone does things their own way. Doesn’t make it right or wrong. There’s a lot of different coaches that win, do a lot of different ways.

So we we worked through that. But yeah what helped me the most was, was in game. Because I knew what he was going through. I thought I was really emotional as an assistant at the University of Scran. It’s something I’ve really worked hard to get better at. You know, the highest, the high high is the lowest the lows getting upset with guys where maybe they’re not following the scout thinking the ref is really out and get out to get you.

And really that’s not the case at all. But then coming from the head coach role to the assistant coach role I really just tried to say super positive for coach. And if he looked over at me. As head coach, sometimes you you get that look where maybe you’re losing it a little bit because you just think things are going against you or guys just aren’t locked in.

I really just tried to be super positive and just say, coach, hey, let’s try this. I think he’s going to be okay. Just stay with him. You know, just, just, and my voice and my tone was so much not as frantic because I, because I’ve done it. I’ve called those timeouts. I’ve been in those really hypersensitive situations as a head coach.

So just trying to keep that easier keel was a little bit easier for me going around the second time. And I think that day to day being that bridge from head coach to player, because I’ve been in that mode, like going back back being assistant again, I thought I did a much better job having the relationships with the players, but also kind of being able to communicate to Coach Stitzel what they think, what’s good, what’s wrong, and kind of being that in between, that, that buffer zone.

Just in a much more productive way instead of just siding with either side, because that’s what they want to hear. At that time, I thought I could work that situation much better because as head coach, you’re, you’re always going to have some guys a little upset with you, right? You’re determining playing time and that’s, that’s part of that experience that we were talking about earlier.

So I thought I could work that and massage that situation a little bit better because I understood what Coach Zel was going through, because I’ve done it for two years.

[00:54:11] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I think that that’s one of the things that as an assistant coach, if you’ve never been a head coach, I don’t think you necessarily understand all of the decisions that have to be made.

And then also understanding that you have to, as the head coach, live with slash handle the ramifications of those decisions, right? As an assistant, it’s easy to sit and say, Hey, we should do X, or, Hey, player Y should. Play more minutes or, Hey, player Z should play less minutes. And it’s easy to say that as the assistant coach, but when you’re the head coach and you have to make those decisions, then there are ramifications all the way down the line.

And oftentimes things that assistant coaches don’t even think about. And I think once you become a head coach, to your point, I think you become more aware and empathetic of not just the decision itself, but everything that goes around the decisions that are made in a program. It’s never just, well, if we do A, then B is going to happen.

Well, guess what? If you do a, there’s B, C, D, E, FG, HI, there’s all these things down the line that are impacted that I think as an assistant coach, you’re not, you’re not always aware of it if you haven’t been in that head coaching seat. And I think head coaches understand that and sometimes. It’s difficult to convey that to an assistant who hasn’t been a head coach because they just don’t, they just don’t get it, for lack of a better way of saying it.

I can speak to that myself. I was a long time at the beginning of my career, a long time high school varsity assistant, and I look back on it now and think about some of the suggestions that I made or things that looked like a really easy, I’m like, what do you mean? Like just, just do that. And I remember my head coach saying, well, yeah we could, but you know, and then going through and listing all the potential consequences of that decision, good and bad.

And yet you just, as an assistant, you don’t process it in the same way. because it’s not going to be your name attached to the decision. You’re not going to have to answer for that decision. You just get to sit over on the side and smile and be like whatever. And the head coach is the one who has to deal with it.

I think that that value of, of. Being in one position and going back to the other. I think there’s value in, in both directions in that you, you learn a little bit more about what the other person’s role is, and I think you value it more and you understand it more, and it makes you a better, whether it’s a head coach or an assistant having been in that, each of those roles before, if that makes sense.

[00:56:49] Narrator: No, ab Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:56:53] Mike Klinzing: All right, so now let’s jump to getting the job at Drew. At Drew. And we talked about it off the top, and you mentioned just a little bit about the process of, of how the job comes open, your ties to it, what made it attractive to you? So for those people who just to kind of give you a timeline, Ryan’s announced as the head coach.

We’re inter, we’re, we’re conducting this interview on July the 16th. Ryan got the job. Officially right on Monday the 14th. So we’re, we’re 48. We’re 48 hours into the job. So what are the, what’s this 48 hours been like in terms of the things, boots on the ground, what have you, what have you done with this 48 hours just to kind of get the thing rolling in the direction that you want it to go?

What, what’s some of the first things that you’ve done here in the, in the, in the first hours?

[00:57:47] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah. It starts with build in those relationships. So you know, get in front of the, get in front of the returning student athletes, calling them some zooms. Just, just kind of letting ’em know who I am and this situation a little bit different, right?

Because they had success last year. Coach Mike McCloy met, he, he killed it. Did a great job. He’s a great guy. And he deserve, and credit to him, he’s ithaca’s a great job too. So it’s just different because they’re a little bit anxious. They want to continue to win. So trying to make sure building those relationships, kinda letting ’em know who I am.

So that’s kind of been my main focus right now. And then the other piece building off that they’ve had success, they got a lot of returners back who have, have done a lot of good things over the last couple years for the program. So a little bit different than Abington and Cabrini. Not as stressed at trying to find late incoming potential players for us.

It’s more so maybe finding a piece here or there that can plug in for some of the graduating guys. So I’ve been absolutely calling my friends and reaching out to student athletes that I knew from my time at Millersville to try to fill a hole here and there. And then it’s just, it’s just, it’s figuring out the staff.

So two guys that alums of the program, they’re on staff. So just getting to know them better build that trust, build that rapport figure out what they want to do with their coaching career so I can be a mentor for them and help them. And just try to get on the same page as quick as possible.

So. That’s really what it’s looked like so far. And then building those relationships across campus. So obviously having conversations with admissions development alumni, just just letting ’em know who I am and shooting some emails off and letting ’em know that I’d love to meet face to face when that time comes.

Hopefully in the coming weeks. As moving can be very tricky. So trying to figure that out and then just working through that progress. But right now it’s just building those relationships, kind of getting everybody on the same page of what our plan will be here moving forward. And then trying to find some late last pieces.

But it has been a whirlwind in these last 48 hours. I know we talked about a little bit earlier in the week, but all exciting. And the one thing I’ll say the young men that Mike recruited in this program, and they’ve been great from the start throughout the interview process to now just their care level, their understanding the program you can tell they’re still hungry and they just want to league championship, which you can’t ask for much more.

So they’ve been very welcoming to me, making me feel like, i’m already a part of it. So, and that’s hard and that’s different in every program and every situation. So kind of just doing that and just building that relationship and then working towards a little bit more every single day.

[01:00:09] Mike Klinzing: So starting with the players and those conversations, you mentioned that you want the players to be able to get to know you. Obviously you’re trying to get to know them, you want them to try to get to know you. Clearly, whenever there’s a coaching change, returning players, there’s a little anxiety there, right?

You have guys maybe who had a good relationship with Coach McCloy, maybe they were in the lineup, they’re getting minutes. All of a sudden now they’re looking at it going, well, the new guy might have a different opinion. Maybe somebody at the back of the roster who didn’t play as much, maybe they’re looking at it, they’re super excited because, hey, it’s a new opportunity.

I get a chance to impress the new guy and maybe move my stature up in the program. But when you’re talking to them and you say that. You want them to get to know you. What are the one or two key things that you’re trying to get across about who you are as a person and as a coach to the guys on your team?

In other words, how are you selling yourself to them in terms of your vision of the program? And you know, you’re, you’re clearly still getting to know them from a personnel standpoint and how they’re going to play and the team and all that kind of stuff. So I don’t want you to dive too deeply into that, but just what are you selling about yourself to those guys that are returning, that you’re trying to get it off on the right foot in terms of them believing in you?

[01:01:26] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah. A big thing for me, and I hope you can hear this on this podcast I love what I do. I have an energy about me. I promise this isn’t fake. It’s just who I am and I want every young man that’s in our program to understand what I’m about, what’s important to me. And and I’m a big transparency guy.

So it is very interesting where the program is because. They did graduate some key pieces. And like I said, there’s guys that are, are returning, but their roles are a little bit different we’ll, we’ll most likely be asking more of them, right? So just having those conversations with saying, Hey, you should be hungry, right?

Yeah, you guys won a championship, but don’t you want to be the guy out there shooting shooting more shots or averaging this or doing this. So just kind of introducing those ideas to the guys returning and saying there’s plenty of opportunity. And letting them know that I’m going to have a passion in pushing them and helping them get to where they want to get to.

You know, we’re losing the program’s, losing all the guys and letting ’em know, Hey, I’m going to do everything I can to push you and get you to that level and help this program maintain the level it it has done under Coach Mc Floyd. But really for me, in those conversations, it’s trying to be as human as possible and not necessarily as coach.

You know, letting them know who Ryan is and not just Coach Ryan, coach Vanel and letting them know how excited I am because I think they should feel my excitement for the job too. Because you mentioned it, they were a little bit anxious, so. They don’t want someone coming in here just like, oh yeah, I got the job guys.

Hey we’ll, we’ll meet here in, oh, I want them to know, hey, like I’m ecstatic to be the next headend basketball coach at Drew, and I’m going to do everything I possibly can every single day I can to get you where you want to go. Not only on the court, but also in life. And yeah. Is that always going to go smooth?

Absolutely not. But they need to know my care level, my passion and my transparency and my honesty, and those are honesty. And those are all kind of the things that we talked about in those conversations. And I let them know that, yeah, new coach comes new opportunity. And you know, and I they played really fast and press and there’s probably a lot of things that we’ll do very similar that they did last year based on what the roster is.

But at the same time, it’s going to look different, it’s going to feel different, it’s going to sound different, and they need to understand that. So kind of just putting that all out there and getting ahead of some of those, some of those things where, where whenever there’s change in anything in life, and especially in coaching, there’s going to be a little bit of friction at times.

So you’re trying to kind of build those relationships so that. That when things do go a little bit awry or things feel a little bit different for the returners, that they’re comfortable enough to talk to me about it. Right. So just kind of letting them know who I’m,

[01:03:47] Mike Klinzing: is there a question or two that one of the players asked that stood out to you as being interesting, particularly astute, something that kind of caught your attention that maybe you were like, oh, that was interesting that that particular player asked me that.

Is there something that somebody asked that kind of made you think, or, or piqued your interest about more about that player? Maybe just, just brought up something that you’re like, oh, that’s an interesting guy there.

[01:04:12] Ryan Van Zelst: Well, it’s interesting. Most all the interviews I’ve been on and young people I’ve met that heading into a program, they all ask How, how do you like to play?

What’s your style? It’s funny, they’ve had a ton of success doing it. So two of the young men in the program were like, Hey, are we pressing? And that was just so specific. Like, I usually don’t get specific, specific questions like that. And I was like, well, that’s what we did at Brady. I’m very familiar. So we will continue to have this conversation.

And that’s what’s the difference between taking over a program that’s had success compared to situations that I took over at Abington and Cabrini where they just it didn’t necessarily really matter X and Os, they just wanted change something new where these guys have had success doing it one way.

So it’s more of a conversation is kind of the way I’ve worded it and thought about it in my mind where it was so specific on what they were asking. It did, it kind of like took me back. I was like, oh, okay. Like you have a, a absolute definite interest in how, how we’re going to play full court defense.

[01:05:04] Mike Klinzing: So lemme ask you along those lines, clearly you have a way that you like to play.

So in an idealized world, tell us the way that you’d like your teams to look, and then how much do you adapt that year to year based on your personnel? Clearly at the college level, you can recruit and try to get guys that fit to your system, but as you know, every year your personnel is slightly different and maybe you have to tweak some things.

So I guess gimme the idealized version of. Or Ryan Van’s. Team. Team. And then maybe give me a, an idea of how much do you kind of tweak around the margins with that year to year?

[01:05:42] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah. I I consider myself a defensive guy just because I did it so long. It’s friend. I was a coach of defense. So toughness is a, is first and foremost comp.

There’s have to be a certain competition level. And by toughness it’s not talking. It’s, it’s honestly, it’s discipline. And I think coaches that have coach against teams, I coach, they feel they, they think we’re pretty disciplined, pretty organized. There’s a rhyme or reason for what we’re trying to do defensively.

I do believe in, in picking up full court, having a presence and honestly it’s not so much a Hey, we’re going to play crazy and run around and jump and run and jump and trap everything. It’s more of having a presence. It’s setting the tone, especially on the road, playing a Saturday game at three o’clock.

It’s letting that opponent hit know, Hey, hey, we’re here. You’re going to feel us for these next 40 minutes. Right? So that’s a big thing for me. Big believer in man to man. I just, maybe I just don’t teach his own, well, I just don’t believe in it. So big believer in man it’s pack line principles, just probably more aggressive in the gaps.

You know, I’ve never been a middle baseline guy. It’s more tendencies on the perimeters, specifically in the slots, wings just sitting on strong hand, especially at division three level. I always word it in scouts. I think a lot of guys division three are fastball guys. They, they’re really good at one thing.

And if you can take that one thing away, it really limits who they’re and obviously we’ll have some different packages and how we guard different actions that we see most, especially within the league that we’re playing in, but defensive guy first. All about competition level, all about care level.

And that, that kind of goes hand in hand with playing man-to-man defense and pressuring the ball and being in the gaps aggressively and stuff like that. But I know you talked about it, adapting to what we have, I think offensively that’s, that’s my style. It’s been interesting over the last three years.

Being at the University of Crown, we always had really good forwards being at Millersville this past year. You know, we had, we, we had a young man, he was MVP of the psac. He just signed a contract to play professionally over in the Netherlands. He had to touch the ball, right? So you’re controlling the game a little bit more, a little bit more.

Half court sets a little bit more, Hey, you know where the ball’s going, but we’re going to dictate what you do when that ball gets in the post around, around how you play it, because he was that good. And I, and you know, I built comfort with that, with Scran, but when I was at Abington and Cab, when I had to be head coach we didn’t necessarily have that inside guy, so played a little quicker.

And I fully envision us to do that at Drew as well. Just play a little bit more pace. Whoever gets it off the glass, we’re going, getting in the simple actions that fit our personnel. Big believer in ball movement, shot selection. Those are the non-negotiables with me. Shot shot discipline is everything I think.

It’s the hardest thing to coach in today’s game. I is a good shot for so-and-so is a bad shot for someone else, and making sure that the team understands that is really, really difficult and takes constant reinforcement. And I think that’s positive reinforcement. I don’t think it needs to be negative.

But I’m a big our team’s have to move the ball and how we create those advantages or that single side ball screen quick or pistol action or, or something where we’re throwing ahead and we’re trying to crush the baseline off the balance and get some 45 cuts. I’m a big believer in that stuff.

And then that allows natural freedom. It allows guys to attack closeouts. So we’ll, we’ll always adapt offensively based on the personnel and, and obviously the IQ level of our team. I think the guys return for Drew, I think they have really good minds for the game based on what I saw. So it allows that game to kind of flow more naturally.

Word at Abington, I think I just had to control the game more because we had a lot more one-on-one guys, so I had to put those guys in position to, to go by and allow that freedom too. So. I think it takes a lot of work especially in the summer and the non-conference and the non-traditional season to work really hard to adapt.

But at the same time, I think it’s more fun to play that way because I’m catering to their strengths and I don’t want to recruit any student athletes and say, Hey, you’re playing my side. It’s just, I just think that’s kind of boring. It’s kind of cookie cutter and I just don’t think that accentuates strength.

So yeah, defensively we’re always going to have a certain way because that’s what I believe in. But offensively we’ll always shift around some of the few beliefs I do have.

[01:09:44] Mike Klinzing: Lemme ask you about the ball movement piece of it, because I think that when you talk about teams that are successful, I don’t care about what level the game you’re talking about.

The teams that are the best teams are the teams where the ball moves, everybody’s unselfish, the leading scorer knows if they move the ball that. On a given possession, the ball’s going to come back to them because everybody believes and plays the same way. You’ve seen tons of teams that are like that.

You’ve coached teams that are like that. You’ve probably also seen and been around teams where getting ball moving, getting somebody throw the extra pass, it’s like pulling teeth and you just can’t, for whatever reason, teams just don’t, just don’t, don’t do it. So when you think about instilling that in your team, the first part of it obviously, is recruiting guys who you see and know and understand that these guys like to move the ball.

But then clearly when you bring a group of guys together, you have to be able to, to teach that, to emphasize it. So when you think about day to day in a practice setting, how do you go about making sure that your guys understand how much you value the ball moving, how much you value the extra pass, how much you value the team?

Part of playing together where it’s us collectively getting a good shot, not, not necessarily one individual player getting a good shot.

[01:11:14] Ryan Van Zelst: It’s just, it’s, it’s the, it’s the reinforcement of it and it’s every day. There can’t be an off day with it. And that’s a combination of on floor. I’ll be honest I times we’ve had really good possessions at practice, whether it’s five V and we’re going up and down and the ball’s swinging and it’s popping and bodies are moving, and whether it’s five V five and you know, we’re in a controlled segment, I’ll blow the whistle and I’ll go nuts.

I’ll be the biggest cheerleader and be like, Hey, that’s who we are and that’s what we want to be. That’s a great shot. Make or miss. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if the shot even goes in, it’s just more about the quality, right? So I think that’s a piece. I think the film is everything. Whether you’re showing five great clips of paint, touch maybe a re drive, maybe one more a shot and.

You know, showing five to six clips of that and letting you know, each individual student athlete know what they’re doing well to help the team, not necessarily just helping themselves. Then having those one-on-one and those small group conversations and saying, Hey, yeah, I know you can get your shot off and you know, that’s a good shot, maybe in a shot clock situation, but you know, we’re coming down and let’s get something easy.

Let’s get something good. And for me, what if it’s in the first 5, 6, 7 seconds of a possession and it’s wide open? That’s still a good shot. Let’s take that one. So I think it’s, it’s using all those different avenues. But I really just think it’s celebrating it. I think it’s letting the guys know how important it is to me as the head coach.

So then they see it and then once they see there’s a little bit of success to it and that it’s actually helping us win, let’s say, segments at practice, I think they start, they, they all start to believe it. And that’s how you start to develop that trust. I think trust is everything and. We know with any good relationship, that takes time.

So just that positive reinforcement over the day, every day, every drill, every segment. I just think that builds that trust to let them know that, hey, this is as a coaching staff myself as the head coach, this is how I believe we’re going to win. And hopefully getting ’em on that same page and let ’em know, hey, that that’s how they should think we should win too.

So and you know, it sounds great when we sit here and talk about it and sometimes it doesn’t go as smooth. So just trying to be creative too, and finding different ways to let them know that, hey, this is, this is how we want to play. And honestly, it’s probably the most fun way to play. But having those conversations too helps alleviate some of that stress of guys concerned about maybe getting a certain number of shots.

because as we know, in most situations, if things are going right, your best guys are going to get the most shots anyway, even if you play that free flowing ball movement style. But it’s also just making sure that they understand that as well.

[01:13:39] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, I think the key to what you said there is you can’t take a day off from that, right?

If that’s. If that, if that is a point of emphasis for you and that’s something that you want to make sure you instill, then you have to bring that every single day and make sure that your guys understand and are, celebrate it when they do what they’re supposed to do and get the kind of shots that you want to get.

And if they’re not, then you call ’em to the table on that and make sure that it, that, that they get to it and what they need to do. You mentioned a little bit about just your use of film to be able to show great possessions, to be able to show things that players are doing well. So when you envision, whether it’s what you did at, whether what you did at Abington or what you did at Cabrini in terms of using the film with the players, how much film are you sharing with the players and what’s your methodology for doing that?

In other words, how much of it is. Whole team watching together. I know you just mentioned a second ago, you’re doing some individual and position work film in a given week, let’s say during the season. How much film are you sharing with the team and what’s the format for sharing it?

[01:14:47] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah, I think during the season, team wise, we’re looking team film every two, every three days probably encompasses the three practices.

That we had never go longer than 25 minutes. We just, as we know, young, young guys just say they lose it and that’s okay. I probably did too. And I don’t think it can all be negative and I don’t think it could all be positive. I think it’s have to be a little bit of both. Try to work really hard to let each individual know if I’m calling them out, Hey, everyone’s made that same mistake before.

And then let’s say a guy is struggling or a guy’s losing a little bit of confidence, that’s where in season especially, we’ll do some of that individual stuff and try to build them up. Things we’ve done in the past that I’ve done in the past is. Make highlight films of guys maybe they’re just having a bad stretch and putting their favorite song.

I’ll text their buddies, Hey, what’s, what’s their favorite song? Whether they go with a basketball, highlight video or not. Put them on there, send them 30 clips of them helping us win games and making shots and just showing them actually enjoying themselves because I think they get caught in that trap and they, and like we talked about, the first question asked me, they lose that joy.

And that’s a big thing for me. So for me, team stuff’s probably every three, every two days. And then obviously once you get in the games, you start to get a little bit more opponent heavy, try to still work in some practice stuff as well. Just gets so much harder at the division three level because the lack of staff and the lack of resources.

But and then individual stuff in small groups, we’re looking at least once or twice a week all the way through

[01:16:10] Mike Klinzing: too.

[01:16:11] Ryan Van Zelst: Individual is more probably when guys are struggling. They just need a

[01:16:15] Narrator: little bit of pick me up to be honest.

[01:16:19] Mike Klinzing: What’s your top priority between now and when your guys get back on campus and.

Or so what’s the top priority? What do you, what do you need to get done as a head coach in the next month, five weeks before your guys get back on campus?

[01:16:33] Ryan Van Zelst: Get organized get organized what the schedules look like, what our class schedules look like, what our practice times are going to be, what our lift times are going to be what’s going to be our tough days in terms of classes.

And then also after that setting up. And by getting organized, mean, setting up individual meetings, like all, all the stuff, the day-to-day stuff that takes a lot of work, takes a lot of time. That’s everything to me, because then it lets us kind of work towards our goal and allows us to establish our expectations, who we want to be as a program on and off the court.

So for me, I’m trying to get up there as quick as I can. As we joked about earlier, that’s not easy. But then that allows me to get the lay of the land, how the day to day works in the office and just allows me to get organized and make sure that I’m ready to go. So the guys are ready to go when they arrive on campus.

[01:17:19] Mike Klinzing: Final two part question, Ryan. Part one, when you look ahead over the next year or two, you’re 48 hours into your new job. So based on the landscape that you’ve seen to this point, what do you see as being your biggest challenge over the next year or so? And then the second part of the question is, when you think about what you get to do every day as a college basketball coach, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

[01:17:51] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah. Biggest challenge. You know, like I said, I’m a pretty transparent person. Mike McCloy did an unbelievable job. I already said it. No, continuing that standard that drew men’s basketball is the Landmark Conference is a really good league. There’s really good programs, really good coaching.

I think looking at it and I think every coach puts a little bit of pressure on themselves to do well. It’s probably part of the reason why we do this. We enjoy it. So the biggest challenge for me is just keeping this program at the level it’s been at and trending in the right direct. From winning the league and winning 20 games a year before that, like trying to maintain that level.

Yeah. Could there potentially be some dips because of loss to graduation? Yes. But that’s not an excuse. Right. And that’s part of the reason, part of the thing that actually excites me about the job. So that’s probably the biggest challenge. And for me, the reason why I do what I do, I love what I do, is I just love the relationships.

I love watching young people get to where they want to go in life. And you know, coaches can sit here and say, yeah, I want I want to make sure my guys get overseas. I mean, they could be just getting a job selling insurance as long as they’re happy, they have a family, they got kids, they’re living a life that they’re super proud of and they’re happy.

That makes me emotional. Like, I mean, I had a young man when I got this job at Drew, sent me a six texts Alex Lan at Penn State, Abington. He had me crying. He’s doing such great things and we went through a lot together that year. And to me, that’s why I coach. And I probably wear my emotions on my sleeve a little bit with that, but I also want the guys in the program to know that, like, that stuff’s important to me.

Yeah. We want to win games. Like I just said, our biggest challenge is keeping that thing going. For me, like if we graduate these seniors, these juniors over the next two, three years and they’re doing things they love to do, that’s a win in itself. And that’s, that’s why I coach, that’s why I make sure I’m up every day trying to not only get the program better, but also make myself better too.

So to give them everything I can.

[01:19:32] Mike Klinzing: Well said, Ryan. I think it goes back to earlier in the conversation when we talked about the experience, right? Your goal there, your, your passion is to provide your guys with an experience that they’re going to take with them for the rest of their life, their life, and have, it’s going to have an impact 20 years from now, 30 years from now, they’re still going to look back.

They’re still going to pick up the phone and call you and say, Hey, coach. And again, as somebody who’s coached a game and been around it, you know how valuable those phone calls are. And those emails that you get from a guy that you coached five years ago or you coached 10 years ago, there’s nothing more meaningful.

because you don’t always necessarily. You believe that you’re having that impact in the moment, but sometimes it’s easy to forget and then boom, it takes one of those, one of those way back phone calls just from somebody that you know, that played for you. That’s, that’s sharing something or is reaching out to you when you have some kind of success.

And it’s really what it’s all about. And I think that impact and being able to use the game is, is truly, I think the most important thing when it comes to coaching is using the game that we love. That you grew up beating up on your brother in the driveway and in the basement and everywhere else just playing just playing hoops because you loved it and now you’re getting to use that game that you loved as a kid to be able to have an impact on other young people.

And to me, when I think about the coaching profession and the game of basketball. Just being able to give back to, to the game and give back to the, to the people who are a part of it. I think that was very well said on your part. So before we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to share how can people get in touch with you, find out more about your program at Drew email, website, social media, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I’ll jump back in and wrap things up.

[01:21:14] Ryan Van Zelst: Yeah, so I actually just got a Drew email address, so that was big time. It’s rvanzelt@drew.edu and then on Twitter I’m pretty good with social media, especially Twitter. It’s @CoachRyanVz. And I usually use that a lot too. So those are probably the best two ways.

[01:21:31] Mike Klinzing: Perfect. Ryan, I cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us? Really appreciate it. And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.

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[01:22:35] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Hoop Heads Podcast presented by Head Start Basketball.

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