Rob Summers

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Twitter – @robsummers33

Rob Summers is entering his third season as a Men’s Basketball Assistant Coach at Cleveland State University.

Summers spent the previous two seasons as an assistant coach at James Madison after serving as the head coach at Division II Urbana (Ohio), where he headed the program for three seasons. Prior to that, he was the director of operations at James Madison for the 2013-14 season after a two-year stint at Glenville State, where he was the associate head coach and compliance coordinator.
A graduate of Gahanna Lincoln High School, Summers started a sterling collegiate career at Penn State, where he appeared in 56 games from 2002-04. After transferring to West Virginia, he played three seasons under Head Coach John Beilein where he was a three-time Big East Academic All-Star.

As a senior, he led WVU to a win in the NIT Championship, starting 36 games and shooting 63.3 percent from the field.

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Take some notes as you listen to this episode with Rob Summers, Men’s Basketball Assistant Coach at Cleveland State University.

What We Discuss with Rob Summers

  • Baseball was his first sport growing up in Chicago because his Dad was a minor league baseball player
  • Starting to focus in on basketball his freshman year in high school when he moved from Chicago to Columbus
  • Attending 5 Star and Blu Chip Camps
  • Playing AAU Basketball for All-Ohio in Columbus
  • How he developed his skills after hitting a growth spurt
  • Being a 6’7″ sophomore on the JV team
  • The role his father played in his development as a player and in his college recruitment
  • His favorite memory as a high school player
  • His decision to attend Penn State and play in the Big 10
  • Transferring to West Virginia after his sophomore year as a result of a coaching change at Penn State
  • How he uses his experiences as a player to relate to the players he is coaching
  • What is was like sitting out for the season when he transferred to West Virginia
  • Winning the NIT his senior year at West Virginia
  • Playing briefly for Nick Nurse in the NBA D League
  • His three seasons playing overseas and his chocolate chip cookie story
  • How an injury and Bob Huggins helped get him into coaching at Glenville State
  • Getting to do everything at Glenville State and how that opportunity has impacted his coaching career moving forward
  • Players that are appreciative of being recruited
  • His experience as a director of ops at James Madison
  • How he got his first head coaching opportunity at D2 Urbana in Ohio.
  • Leaning on John Beilien and Bob Huggins as mentors that first year as a head coach
  • Gaining perspective on what a head coach goes through and has to deal with that he didn’t understand as an assistant
  • Learning to delegate and trust his staff
  • Spelling out what he wanted his program to look like in a little black journal
  • “I understand that I have to be there to make their job easier because it’s a stressful job being a head coach.”
  • How the opportunity with Coach Dennis Gates at Cleveland State came to him
  • The strengths of the program at Cleveland State
  • The importance of recruiting local players to help generate excitement around the program at CSU
  • Recruiting character and toughness
  • How to eliminate selfishness on your team
  • Building a tight knit staff
  • “I love being able to associate myself with future leaders and future husbands and fathers, and knowing that I’m having some type of positive influence on their lives.”

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[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight, who unfortunately is feeling a little bit under the weather, but I am pleased to be joined by men’s basketball assistant coach at Cleveland State University, Rob Summers, Rob, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.

Rob Summers: [00:00:14] Hey Mike, glad to be here.

Mike Klinzing: [00:00:19] Absolutely. Looking forward to digging into all the things that you’ve been able to do in your career in basketball. I want to start by going back in time to when you were a kid, tell us a little bit about how you got introduced to the game, what some of your first memories are…

Rob Summers: [00:00:32] I actually grew up a baseball player, loved baseball. My dad was a minor league baseball player. He actually played for. This is a red farm team. And so he got me to that a young age and grew up on the south side of Chicago playing baseball and about to like third grade, I believe.

And then a lot of my classmates were playing the local rec center and I wasn’t very tall. And I got hit my growth spurt later on in life. So it wasn’t a super tall you know, third grader, but those guys were just all in the gym and I kind of just kept they kept [00:01:00] leaving the baseball bat and a baseball diamond and go on to play basketball and kind of follow them there.

And it’s kind of a ride from, from going forward to that, to that.

Mike Klinzing: [00:01:09] When you think about growing up and playing multiple sports, as you got into middle school, high school, did you still play some other sports or at what point did you start to focus in on basketball?

Rob Summers: [00:01:22] My freshman year of high school. I think my dad he kinda came to me and it’s like, look, if you want to really get great at something and possibly get a scholarship at the division one level, you might want to start focusing on one thing specifically.

So it was around that time that I kinda, it kind of hung up the baseball mitt and it decided at basketball was going to be kind of my bread and butter and we’d get a free education.

Mike Klinzing: [00:01:44] What did that look like for you when you made that decision to go. And start to focus in specifically on basketball in terms of how did you go about getting better?

What did your summers look like? Just tell us a little bit about how you went about improving [00:02:00] and trying to reach that goal of getting a D one scholarship.

Rob Summers: [00:02:03] Well, it was at that point, my freshman year, we actually moved from Chicago to Columbus. So a was in the process of moving as well as deciding to focus strictly on basketball.

And so I didn’t know much about the AAU scene and also was moving to a whole different school district where no one really knew me. You know, it was, I was tall. I was six, four as a freshman. But a lot of those guys got to grow up through the middle school You know, the, the high school coach just kind of know the kids that are in the neighborhood.

So I was a new kid on the block down there and go hand in Ohio and was able to kind of focus a little bit in the summertimes and go into some camps. Five-star camp, a blue-chip camp down in Kentucky, and just really trying to get better. You know, I was tall, I was lanky. I hit a growth spurt.

So I was kind of getting used to my body that at that time I was like, I was a guard before, and then I had to go right to the post and I was really skinny. No, probably 130 pounds soaking wet at that time. So doing that was weird, but I think once I started kind of getting used to my body and how everything was working on the game, I started playing AAU [00:03:00] basketball that went on to play for all Ohio, which was one of the one of the premier AAU programs in the state at the time, they kind of the new kid in Columbus that install and 15 U team that needed them and was able to play my summers with them.

Mike Klinzing: [00:03:13] How did you balance playing, whether it was a you, whether it was pickup basketball with getting in the gym by yourself and working out because you were probably just on the cusp.

Sort of the training revolution of guys having trainers and that kind of thing, but I’m guessing that you were probably still working out more on your own, or just tell me a little bit about how you balanced out playing versus working out and improving your game by yourself In the gym?

Rob Summers: [00:03:38] I was really focused on the individual skill development.

You know, the AAU was new to me. I didn’t know much about it aside I would talk to my coaches then and be like I got workouts I wouldn’t miss you practice to actually get in the gym by myself or at the time I was working out with Ron Lewis, his older brother, Ron Lewis played Ohio state was on our AAU team.

But his older brother [00:04:00] was doing a lot of skill development down in the Columbus at the time. And just helping out a lot of a lot of young kids not, not to the extent that you have trainers these days with all the all the, all the gadgets and all that stuff. It was just pretty much getting to the gym and working in your game.

So it was I was excited just to get better because I wasn’t as skilled as a lot of the guys who’ve been playing for so long. So just being able to get in the gym with them was important for my development.

Mike Klinzing: [00:04:21] When did you feel like you started to get a grasp on your body and your skills? When does things really start to come together for you where you felt confident in everything that you were doing at what point in your high school career to that all start to come together?

Rob Summers: [00:04:36] I think it was after my sophomore year you know, a play, I was a freshman. I played freshman basketball. My freshman year was on JV my sophomore year. And you know, a lot of like the sophomores, they were the guys who been in the system for a while were playing, they were playing varsity. So I was, I was still on JV at six, seven, again, still about 150 pounds now.

So being able to see my game, develop in my shot and get better and kind of [00:05:00] seeing like, man, I’m pretty good at this. You know, I think that was, that was a turning point in, in my eyes of like, Hey, I can, I think I’m able to turn this in professional and hopefully you’ll get a free education.

Mike Klinzing: [00:05:10] When did you start to get your first contacts from college coaches? Do you remember?

Rob Summers: [00:05:15] Yeah, I think it was that summer too as well. So after that, between my junior and my sophomore, my junior season I started getting low major division one interests, then division two teams go call on me to sex me to come to Elite camp or just come on, campus for on officials and just that was, that was pretty cool.

Just to see that people were excited about me as a basketball player. No matter the level I wasn’t, I wasn’t really caught up on the level of that at that age because I just, I never had anybody that was interested in me and would tell me you can come here and play basketball and for free.

So I get free education out of it. So I think that that was at that point, I think I decided that’s a great time for me to keep developing and to seeing what what schools were interested in me.

Mike Klinzing: [00:05:57] What role did your dad play in that [00:06:00] recruiting process?

Rob Summers: [00:06:01] Well, my dad was influential this and that.

He was a basketball player. He played division three basketball, but he was a lot better baseball player obviously. But he’s a sports guy he played basketball. He wasn’t very good. He was more of a high flyer. It’s always got ops that I could, I could shoot and he could jump out the gym. So I didn’t get those.

But he was a, he was a huge sports guy. You know, at the time my dad was working as a banker for chase. Now he’s up now he’s a pastor. But at that time he was a banker and he was working until about 60 on the nine to five every day. And he would get home and take me to the gym rebound for him.

And he tried to teach me a hook shot. That was his favorite, his favorite thing. He says unstoppable shot. So till this day, I don’t, I don’t think I have the hook shot of the quiet, the way he has it. But he was able to really just keep me focused on it and he’s like, look, if you’re going to do it do whatever you got.

He never really pressured me into it. So that was like I guess the good part about it he knew sports built, built character but he wasn’t in the sense of like, Hey, this is the NBA you’re bus. He’s like, look, if you love it, [00:07:00] you know, do you do your hardest? And when the chips fall where they may.

Mike Klinzing: [00:07:03] That’s sometimes a tough needle to thread, right?

I’m sure as a coach, you’ve experienced all different types of parents with the players that you’ve been able to work with. And we know that you have parents that kind of take the track that your dad has. And then we have some others that are hugely involved in maybe ways that aren’t always positive for their, their, their kids.

And so I think it’s always interesting to talk to somebody and think about how their parent reacted. Did the things with them to help their kids to be able to have success. And sounds like your dad was able to do a right and kind of steer you in the right direction and help you and give you the kind of advice that made you have a more successful career.

When you think back to that high school career, what’s your favorite memory of high school?

Rob Summers: [00:07:45] Oh man. Oh, my favorite memory of high school basketball, I would say probably making it a district’s who played against Brookhaven and my senior year which was a really time of team, like, so they had Ron Lewis who was a house state where he Moss, who actually played paintable and green.

Then he came to Cleveland state as [00:08:00] well. So yes, she was at Cleveland state alum Andrew lavender, who was a great point guard played Oklahoma Playtex. David was all American Brandman, fouls Jamelle quarterly. They had they had probably seven division one guys and that team at the time.

You know, Gahanna, wasn’t what they are. You know, now when I was playing again, Hannah we didn’t have a ton of division one guys coming through our little oncology guys coming through the program every year. You know, now now they’re doing a great job of, of getting kids in that school system and developing them.

But for us to get there, make it to that level. And it was, was a really close game. And that was a team that I think they went, ended up going and winning stayed. So maybe he lost in the finals, but the other team that was a preemie talented, and we had a lot of people in the city that said we couldn’t even be able to need, it would be in the gym with them at that time.

So that was a fun experience for me. As a player is going into college,

Mike Klinzing: [00:08:48] Talk a little bit about that recruiting process. How do you end up at Penn State? What was that like as you were being recruited, what did you base your decision on? Just walk us through your process for making that [00:09:00] decision?

Rob Summers: [00:09:00] Well, like I said before, I had a lot of interest from a lot of lower level schools my sophomore, junior year. And you know, a lot of teams, they were telling me a lot of great things. Like you, you’re coming to start, you’d come in and be the man. And you know, I had higher level teams that were telling me, Hey, you’re going to come in.

You got the red shirt you’re a hundred years, six 11, which 185 pounds. You know, our bigs here are two 50 they’re, they’re, they’re, they’re rock solid. So here in the red, the red red shirt, I knew myself personally. But I went to play the freshmen. I was like, man, I just want to play I’ve won an opportunity, not even as a play.

I just wanted someone to tell me, Hey, look, you have. You know, if I had to register when I got there. So be it. But a lot of the higher level schools were telling me we went off of your scholarship. We want a red shirt. You’re in the lower level school they’re telling me I was about to start.

And I wanted to a good balance of, you know play in high, major basketball get some talented bigs and then taking my game to the next level. But at the same point in time, I didn’t want it. You know, I didn’t want to have to sit up that first year. So when Penn state and coach Jerry Dunn came in and he really messed well, an in-home visit with my parents, then they [00:10:00] kept recruiting me heavily.

They were at every game. I mean, they had, they, they, they did, they didn’t say game the whole summer. So to see how excited they were about me I did sparred me, just being excited about them as well. And that’s one big thing that the staff told me. And I carry that to this day as a coach myself is like, we want to be excited about you as you are about us.

We don’t want it to be one way or the other. We don’t want you being so excited and we’re kind of like, we’ll take you. And then, because I was North Carolina fan, I mean, I was an album of them. I’m a Michael Jordan. I mean,

Mike Klinzing: [00:10:30] Robert on the same page, man, cause I was a Carolina guy growing up and I didn’t get to the level that you ended up being able to play.

But I had, I had these and I was a little bit before you, so when I was coming through, like I had no idea what recruiting was all about. My high school coach had never had anybody that was kind of on my level. My parents really didn’t have any idea. I didn’t have any idea. There was no internet to really do research.

So I still thought even going into my senior year, I’m like, I’m just still waiting around for North Carolina to call me for a house state to call me. [00:11:00] And obviously those calls never came, but yeah, I could, I could definitely relate to thinking, Hey Carrie, if I, if Carolina would’ve called me, I’d have been there in a second.

Let’s put it that way.

Rob Summers: [00:11:09] No, definitely, definitely does it. Right. I tell my dad that I said, I’m going to Carolina. He said, if it didn’t happen, somebody called you. I was like, well, I got a couple of letters. He’s like, how many times have you talked to those guys? Like, no. And he’s like, well, you’re not going to Carolina.

Mike Klinzing: [00:11:22] That’s funny.

It’s good stuff though. It’s amazing as a kid. And I think, I don’t know if it happens as frequently anymore, but certainly you go back in time and I think there was a lot less. Understanding of the levels that kids could play. Cause there just wasn’t the information that’s available now. Now you obviously, if you’re a kid you could get on social media or you’re a coach, I mean, it’s just, there’s so much more information out there.

People can educate themselves so much better about the process and kind of know where they’re at and then there’s people that can help them, whether it’s parents or AAU coaches or high school coaches that are much more informed than they were back, whatever 30, some odd years ago when I was going through this process.

So it’s [00:12:00] definitely in that respect, it’s taken a turn for the better just people I think are more informed about what the whole process is all about.

Rob Summers: [00:12:07] Definitely. They definitely are.

Mike Klinzing: [00:12:09] All right. So what’s the adjustment like for you when you get to Penn state? Obviously you’re a tall, skinny guy you go in there, what’s it like stepping out onto the floor with, with the college guys for the first

Rob Summers: [00:12:20] time?

Oh, it was intense. I mean, I, I graduated on my birthday, which was June stayed renovated June six and I actually left to go to canvas. For summer school and coming from being a a good player in the high school realm and every freshman comes in spectrum one thing like, all right, I’m going to go in and be able to do my thing.

And that first day on campus is being in the weight room alone. You know, I’d never, I didn’t lift any weights. I was just it was tall. I was, I was good at basketball and I thought that was it. So I kind of stayed away from the weight room. And that first day in the weight room this was a, it was a whirlwind, it was a whirlwind that loud music, music guys yelling at you weights in the [00:13:00] ground.

It was a shock to me personally, but you know, that summer was great for me. I was able to put on about 25 pounds. I was able to go against a lot of the upperclassmen that summer, just an open gyms and workouts. And it was it was good to get there early and before fall, it started and you guys get in students got on campus.

But for my development, I really needed that summer. And that was a big reason why I was able to start as a freshmen

Mike Klinzing: [00:13:25. Do you use those experiences and share them with the players that you recruit and then players that you brought in and worked with over the years as a college coach?

Rob Summers: [00:13:34] Oh, definitely. Definitely. I had a lot of guys in the office the day and I’m just talking to them and I’m like, look, guys, I’ve been where you been at. You know, that’s one thing that I used that whole with recruiting and coaching in general was like, look guys, I, I play college basketball. So everything you guys are experiencing or will experience you know, I’ve, I’ve had to deal with it.

So having me as a sounding board, but also understand that I’m not going to be sympathetic sometimes, but there’s some of this stuff because I’m going to be like, Hey, I had to deal with that. I deal with it. [00:14:00] I had to deal with the cafeteria food. I had to deal with the dorm life I had to deal with study halls and and having an exam and having a crime and then still having to get the ways it’s it’s this, it goes with the tour, the territory, right.

So I think the guys respect that and that’s one of the big reasons why they respond so well all the courts to myself as well.

Mike Klinzing: [00:14:20] When you get to school, what are you thinking in terms of career goals at that point, when you first get to college?

Rob Summers: [00:14:26] I mean, I wanted to major in Marine biology. My first, my first goal was I would’ve been in Marine biology and still am I going to be Mars?

I want to be a Marine biologist after I get done playing basketball. And they were like, well, we don’t have any body of water near us. So we don’t have that as a major winter, somewhere from water. So that was, that was different. But so, and then I actually it was like I want to make the NBA like everyone like everyone who’s is a basketball player.

They that’s the ultimate goal is to make it to the NBA, but also knew that the ball was going to stop bouncing. Sometime I knew I wasn’t going to just play basketball my entire life. So definitely looked [00:15:00] into extra of first year. I looked into being an either sports. Or I actually went to pre pre-med for submit for a semester, but you know, the freshmen, you don’t hit any of those classmates you get a lab and I think I had a lab and I was like, man, I got this lab.

And like, I mean, more or less I want to have. And they were like, yeah, a lot of these labs will be at night, you’re going to leave practice. And I was like, well, let’s talk about, so actually when it’s a labor industrial relations thing wanting to be a sports agent, because I was like, you know what, I want to be around the game of basketball.

You know, coaching wasn’t, you know what I was like, oh some guys were like, man, I was, I’m going to coach them on a play. Then I’m going to coach. And that wasn’t me I wanted to be around the game. But I didn’t really think about the coaching aspect to later on.

Mike Klinzing: [00:15:38] It’s so interesting.

The number of people that we’ve talked to on the podcast, they either fall into. One of those two camps. They’re either somebody who, when they were eight years old, they were drawn up, plays on a napkin while they were sitting there eating breakfast and they knew they were going to be a coach, even though they were still a player.

And then guys like yourself, who you’re focused on being a [00:16:00] player, you maybe know you want to be involved in the game, but coaching really isn’t getting out of your radar at that point, because you’re still thinking of yourself as a player. So tell us a little bit about the decision to leave Penn state and transfer to West Virginia.

What prompted the transfer and then what do you feel like you got out of it? Why did it work out so well for you?

Rob Summers: [00:16:20] Well I came in at Penn state on the Coach Jerry Dunn. And after my freshman year he was let go. So we had a good freshman class. We had three freshmen that were starting our first year.

And that’s back when the big Sam was a big cause really good now, but I mean, that’s when it first started getting really, really good with Illinois teams with Dee brown and lose their head to Rob Williams. And Devin Harris is at Wisconsin. So you had. You know, really tiny guys and they don’t have an MBA careers that were in the big 10 at the time.

So we were, we were excited to be a young, a young group of guys coming through the big 10. And once coach Doug got, let go. You know, a couple of guys were like I came here for him and they ended up transferring it after their first semester of sophomore year. So you’re not stay [00:17:00] there my second season with, with Kosta chelas through the end of the year and was starting and it was playing and was happy.

But at the same point in time, you, when you, when you see a new staff, sometimes you, you, you look at it as if they didn’t recruit me. You know, I don’t know this is a place I need to be at it. And I kind of express those feelings to them. So decided to decided to transfer. And once I transferred coach Dunn to actually who recruited to Penn state with an assistant at West Virginia, and he knew my style, he knew I was a big thing, like the stress before that was more of a skill guy, high IQ compacity wasn’t that running, jumping does donkey and you know, all that type of stuff.

You know, I use my, I use my skillset to my event. He was like, look I’m at West Virginia here, we got it. We got a good program. We’re trying to build it up. You know, we’re just coming off of first round NIT loss. But I think we got some good things and I think you would fit in well with coach Beilein.

So wind down there for, for a visit and just fell in love with Morgantown and fell in love with it. You know, w with the stack was realized, was awesome that the team was down there. The guys are great and the visit [00:18:00] and just really felt like home for me. When I went through for that visit.

Mike Klinzing: [00:18:03] What was it like that year?

You had to sit out. Cause I know when I was at Kent, we had a guy or two that transferred in that had to sit out and those are tough years for guys when you’re practicing, you’re having to go through everything that everybody else has to go through and all the challenges that you talked about earlier, and then you don’t get to play come game time, which obviously is the reward.

That’s the carrot at the end of the stick. So what was that year like for you after you transferred? Just going through. And practicing knowing that you were, can never get to play in a game that season.

Rob Summers: [00:18:32] It was tough. It was tough. I knew myself and that’s kinda why they went to raise her to the freshmen because I knew if I didn’t have that clearness, that I could see myself being lazy as a player.

So that red shirt. You know, I was trying try my best to put those stars. But at the same point in time, I was a little down about not getting that opportunity to play the great thing about it is that we were really good that year. So that was a year that was the first year of where Kevin  goes off and becomes a [00:19:00] household name.

So we, we become that team that we will have to be lost in the big east finals that year to the baby Syracuse. But we became like kind of a Cinderella story of sorts and we went to the lead eight. So that was when we we beat wait for us at, at the walls, things that are actually, what’s called the cattle back, but that’s back when the group Chris Paul and those guys lost.

And I think it was double overtime to us at the Cabo center here in Cleveland. So it was, it was, it was bittersweet because I was excited to be a part of the team, but at the same point in time when to be on the floor but our T I think our staff and the team was so closely mid that they didn’t allow me to use.

Get inside my own head. They kept me involved. They kept me like, look, man, you got to give it to us everyday in practice. You gotta be the biggest cheerleader on the bench. And I think I was probably the biggest cheerleader you could ever see at six 11 with wearing a two baggy suit on the end of the bench.

That’s waiting to get tile for that, for that season.

Mike Klinzing: [00:19:51] A little bit of a different style, right. Fashion-wise back back in the day.

Rob Summers: [00:19:54] Oh man. A lot of buttons, a lot of buttons, all the

Mike Klinzing: [00:19:56] suits. Yeah. It’s funny. I I’m trying to think where I saw this, [00:20:00] but sometime within, probably the last month or so I saw there was a photo of all the draft picks that year LeBron got picked.

So it was like 2004 to the enemy and the suits are hysterical, man. Everybody’s like, they’re giant. The pants are all just there’s there’s like, there’s like a yard of fabric down by the shoes. It’s amazing how the styles, how styles change. It’s crazy. I had a coach once recently that said it used to be that.

You know, the five, eight K would ask you for the extra large shorts. And now it’s the six, eight kid asking you for the the extra small Jersey. And everybody wants to the small, tight stuff. It’s just, it’s crazy how things kind of go full, go full soccer. I remember I went to camp my first year. We had shorts that they had belts on them Rob my first year.

And so I, when I was a freshman, I didn’t play a whole lot. So I sat on a bench in these tiny, short shorts of the belt. And I was like the most uncomfortable thing I’ve ever experienced that by the time I’m a senior, no, you got the shorts that are hanging down way past your knees with like [00:21:00] the 14 inch inseam or whatever it was.

This is crazy out things of how things have changed.

Rob Summers: [00:21:05]  Oh  yeah.

Mike Klinzing: [00:21:06] It’s amazing. All right, well, so I asked you for your high school, your high school highlight, what’s your college highlight?

Rob Summers: [00:21:12] Oh man, probably senior year. I think we weren’t, we weren’t slated to be very good. You know, I think our junior year we went to the sweet 16 and we lost to LaMarcus Aldridge in Texas on a, on a buzzer beater.

So that was, that was tough. And we lost a lot of those seniors you know, with Pitsnoggle Mike Gansey, Joe Harrisburg JD Collins, they were, they were a team. You guys have been there for four years and they had turned what’s going into a household name. So go into my senior year, we were kind of in a rebuilding stage most would think.

So we brought in a lot of freshmen with the Sean Butler Joel Missoula, and to be able to win it and I teach championship. We felt slighted by not making that tournament in that tournament team, we actually, to this day, we have a, a group chat called the 65th place

where there were 64 teams back then [00:22:00] where the 65th place team. But we ended up you know, getting the first the number one seat in it. And you know, we went back to the garden because the big east farmer was in the garden. And our whole thing was a ski bag that a garden and coach beeline line did a great job of keeping us focused because you know, not a lot of guys are that excited that a little bit about playing in.

Mike Klinzing: [00:22:18] It certainly go either way. Right? I mean, you could either do what you guys do, which is get excited about it. Or you could have a team that goes the other way, like, man, we should have been at get better. And then you end up losing early because you’re just not as into it as you could have been. We’ve seen teams obviously do that.

Rob Summers: [00:22:31] Yeah. I’ll know now for sure. And that’s what, that’s our thing. We were going to miss spring break. We said, guys, we’re going to miss spring break anyways, because we’re going to do our first for our first two round games or during spring break. We’re like, man, we might as well go to this whole thing if we’re going to be in it.

And we’re going to miss spring break and we’re gonna do all this, like we gotta, we gotta go ahead and win it. So go out there and in my college career with the championship and then at that point in time, there wasn’t a CVI or a CIT. And so coach would be lion’s biggest thing was like, look, only two teams are going to end this year on.

And you know, the Instagram champion in us [00:23:00] and I teach champion. So you guys gotta be focused on that. Now, one thing that Joe Missoula said, it was kind of funny. It was like, he’s like, well, what about those teams that don’t make the conference?

you talk about that all the time? Are they, well, there’s a lot of, there’s a couple of teams that, and on a win because they didn’t make the conference tournament, but they wouldn’t last the game. But that was just, it was just great to cut down in debt. Our certs, our t-shirts at the time were misspelled.

So that’s kind of like the cool thing that always pops up on ESPN. They spilled West Virginia without the last eyes. So they were like, there’s a mishap on all those things, but definitely was a great experience.

Mike Klinzing: [00:23:34] Very cool. All right. So you get done, you graduate, what’s the plan for there. Obviously you want to continue to play, you get an opportunity to play overseas.

Just talk a little bit about the professional experience, trans transitioning from being a college basketball, to being a professional player, what that was like for you. And then I always want to ask and find out what your best European basketball story is. One that’s clean that you could share on the podcast.

Rob Summers: [00:23:56] Definitely. Well when, when I, when I [00:24:00] graduated again, whether it be in the NBA with average five points, five rebounds, I was a starter you were top 25, but you know, five points by rebalancing a six 11 guy. Who’s not a big time dunker. I mean, I, I make my call and I’m, I was, I think I was probably 12 years too early.

I think if I would’ve been able to be as skilled shooting big guy back then it was like getting the post. They were that stopped guys was just like, oh, that was a six 11 guys shooting jump shots in threes. And, and now it’s like, you better be able to shoot jumps out at threes, but I’ve been just so once I graduated, I talked to a couple of agents when did make it.

I ended up getting drafted by the energy would coach Nick Nurse. So Nick nurse’s model was my first coach in the D league at a time outs, the G league, but was out there in Iowa. I actually just saw Coach Nurse this past week coach gates was speaking at a clinic and coach nurses there.

He said, we drafted you in second round. I remember you because you probably don’t remember me at all because I barely played for the, for the three months. They had me before a guy got sit down from the Bulls and took my spot. So I kinda went overseas after that. And spent three seasons played pretty [00:25:00] much anywhere and everywhere you can play.

I was a mercenary I went to Portugal, Austria, South Korea, Uruguay, Dominican Republic played in Puerto Rico played in Morocco. I mean, I was, I was in everywhere in the summertime, just trying to make me go that those, that those tax free dollars and this. And I think it was, it was a great experience and I got to experience a lot of different cultures.

As far as a crazy story, I’ll give you one my first year. I’m in Portugal and I don’t know much about email. I don’t know what’s about the country. Don’t know much about grocery shopping, just in general even impacting college, I’m going to stop. Pizza rolls and that’s about it.

So now I’m in a supermarket that’s nothing’s in English there’s not a, and I’m walking down the aisle, I’m trying to find sugar. I want to make cookies. So I’m like, man, you know what I’m missing? I miss talking to cookies. My dad sent me a recipe that he had, there was really good.

So I’m like, I’m going to make this home. I’m going to be taught to have cookies. So I’m walking down the aisle and there’s all these bags of just like flour, you know what I’m thinking, a [00:26:00] spiral, I’m thinking a sugar. What I’m thinking is basically like, so like I’m the kind of like guessing, like I kind of put two and two together, like arm and hammer that are as big as like they have bacon so that I can make it so that I can tell I’m a hammer.

Okay, cool. I flour. I can see that the symbol of a flower on that. I can be all these things. And then I get to what I think is sugar and by. Bag of just but I think it’s sugar pay, pay money, go home, make these cookies. They come out looking good, smelling good. And I take a bite of the cookie and I, it was salt, salt,

salt. I had made a solid cookie. I’d made a cookie that he was made to completely out of salt. So after that I learned what the, what the Portuguese word was for, for sugar so that I could know that going forward. But it definitely was an experience learning how to learn, how to cook. And I come out here and all in everything from my own myself while I was overseas,

Mike Klinzing: [00:26:52] I get all that for the first time.

Definitely. And having to do it in a foreign country and language barriers and all that stuff. That’s a good story. I [00:27:00] liked that one. Which what, what place that you played was your favorite? What was your favorite? Just location that you’d like to.

Rob Summers: [00:27:08] I mean, I’m American through and through, so I love everything that Americans have house or any place that had just, just the American style food.

But South Korea probably was the best because they had a TGI Friday’s Krispy Kreme donuts right down the street from my apartment. So you see a hot sign and grab a, grab a hot dog. He gets the mozzarella sticks. So that was a, that’s probably one of my favorite places. I probably made the most money there too.

Mike Klinzing: [00:27:39] There you go. That’s all good. That’s all good. All right. So when does coaching get on your radar?

Rob Summers: [00:27:44] So my last year I’m, I’m playing in Morocco at the time. I used to go for a dog and I get out of your cut and I hurt my back. So I go back, they say I, I have a herniated disc you know, I could get surgery or I could rehab it.

They were like, surgery is not really going to help per se. It may, may not. [00:28:00] But rehab could can help a lot. So I’m actually contacted coach Huggins and it was, I spent my summers kind of in New York city and in Morgantown, just working out with people. So built a great relationship with hugs when he came in and took over Cosby line and he said, well, look come back and come back and be a GA, use our facilities, that train, and also to get to get to rehab together because the trainer at the time dog a ready-made was still there to this day, but he was great.

And he was looking to come out here and get better with us. So was down there for that summer. I mean, for that, for that year just kind of helping out with the good, with the bigs doing what I need to do as a grad assistant taking my master courses. And towards the end of the season how’d you like, well, what’d you going?

What’s the next step? And I said, well, I’m going back overseas. You know, I got a couple of contracts on the table. I’m going to go, go ahead and do it again. And he said, well, how much are you going to make? And I think at that time I was probably going to make eight, eight, 8,000 a month or something like that, about 88,000.

And he was like, look, if you’re not making six figures as the overseas player by year four, he’s like, you’re just going to be sitting around [00:29:00] Nicklin diamond for the next several years. And when you get done, your body breaks down, you’re going to want to do something. And you’re going to probably want to coach because you did it.

You’ve been doing a great job with our guys here. They really respond well. And so you see how you you’re, you’re a mentor to them. You need to get into it now. And I was like, well I’ve never really thought about coaching as much, but I do. I, I love being around these guys and they responded to, well.

And he’s like, look, you need to get a coach. And he’s like, you’re going to be going to be 30, 35 years old asking me for it a job. And I’m not gonna be able to get you on because you don’t have any experience. So I was like, well, all right. So I’m like, I’m like, I’ll think about it. So probably an hour later he calls me.

So they’ve got a job for you. I was like, what? I was like here. And he’s like, nah, no, no, no. I got, I got a job at Glenville state and I said, Glenville state. I said, hugs, what is that? And he said, it’s a division two school. It’s about an hour and a half south of here in Morgantown. He’s like, it’s in a small town, one stoplight and a CVS.

And he’s like, and you’re going to take this job. And I said, well, let me come and talk to you. So I went in there and talked to him when his office and he’s like, you gotta [00:30:00] take it. You know, you want to get in this coaching thing, you gotta learn. You gotta learn how to recruit. You gotta see if you love it.

You gotta see if you love it. Cause it’s gonna be long hours. You’re not gonna make any money. So went home and prayed about it, called my parents. And you know, the next day he went down and visited. Coach dye was the head coach at the time. Except that the position and he was right. He had one stoplight.

I mean, it was, it was CVS and the nearest Walmart was about an hour away. So it was a, it was a culture shock for me, going from being at a high, major basketball player, pro pro basketball player to live in, in you know, living in a studio apartment and, you know trying to, trying to play in my Walmart trips around going to the, a mall because so far away.

Mike Klinzing: [00:30:36] All right. So I have two questions related to that one. First of all, was it hard to put the ball down? Was that difficult? Was it easier than you thought once you did it? How did you react to no longer thinking of yourself as a player?

Rob Summers: [00:30:54] It was tough. It was tough. I, yeah, I love, I mean, through the toes, they, I love playing basketball.

I mean, I still play a [00:31:00] one on one against our guys. I still find ways to play pickup basketball around the, around the city of Cleveland where whenever I can, you know and it’s because it’s in my blood it’s kind of like a stress relief. So to, to put it down with. I think those first couple of years of the coach, you still are in that player mindset of you could do it like, well, I can do this whack that you guys able to do this.

So you’re just getting, you get frustrated a little bit, your first couple of years of coming off, being a player, because you just, you think about yourself as a player and what you could do, and you got to separate that from what your players can do. Because a lot of times especially that you got the division two level, those guys weren’t as in tune with the stuff that I had to go through for 20 plus years of playing basketball.

So it, it was tough at first. But I think toward the, toward that, in that second year it was, it was easier because I saw that will award are those guys really getting better? And those guys really being thankful for it having me be a part of the staff and having me as [00:32:00] somebody that can go to when they were, they were going through the same issues I went through as a player.

Mike Klinzing: [00:32:07] Some of the challenges of going from being obviously in the big 10, then you’re at West Virginia, then you’re playing overseas as a pro, as you mentioned, and now you’re going to a division two school. What were some of the challenges in terms of maybe resources or just things that were different from the way.

You had always kind of seen them done to now how you have to do them at the division two level.

Rob Summers: [00:32:31] I mean obviously when you’re at Penn State or West Virginia year or two premier programs in the country that have, that have unlimited resources you have a limited dollar.

So for, for equipment, for, for food housing, anything along those lines training staff it was multiple trainers there multiple cold tubs, multiple people that are just taking care of your body for you. So you can just walk into the training room and you guys attach a needle stem stems through your legs and put an IC or heating packs there. [00:33:00]

You know, I won’t say a pampered lifestyle because you’re going through the ringer, but it’s a lot of people there that are helping you take care of your body and then leave from there to go. Overseas was difficult because you know, you’re making money, you’re a pro, but a lot of things, a lot of these guys don’t understand where they get to that pro level is you’re doing less stuff.

United. I had to learn the table and ankles. You know, I had to learn table and ankles as a, as a player because our trainer was a part-time guy who worked at a cafe and he would come in and and help. But it wasn’t, it wasn’t to the level that you have at the the big east, big 10 back then high major type basketball, and then going to division two as a coach and seeing it.

I credit that to, to my success as a coach to now, because I saw kind of everything that goes in behind the scenes I was sweeping the floor. I was watching jerseys I’m, I’m, I’m ordering the food. And where did the pizzas and the subway for after the game, I’m, I’m driving a van, I’m doing every little thing that you, as a play, you never see.

Right. You never see that in [00:34:00] the. At that level of division two level and have to cut your teeth with that type of situation was just incredible because I feel like there’s no job, but they feed out. So like there’s, there’s anything’s ever needed to get done. I’m never wanting to be like, oh, okay, somebody who’s gonna handle that.

Like, Hey man, you need somebody to put the hay, the paint, a wall. I already did it. Right.

Mike Klinzing: [00:34:24] All right. So obviously that’s one of the things that I hear a lot from guys that start out at lower levels that clearly the staff is smaller. So you end up getting this baptism by fire of seeing the opportunities to do all the different things that you just talked about.

You get to touch every single aspect of the program. So in that first two year stint at Glenville. What did you really love about coaching? What were some of the parts that you were like, man, this is really, I could see myself doing this for the rest of my career because [00:35:00] I love this aspect of coaching.

What jumped out at you?

Rob Summers: [00:35:03] Just the thankfulness of the players, especially the guys that do recruit. I mean, I remember my first recruiter Belmore as he came in and wasn’t highly recruited actually played in my eyes. You know, I think you would have had maybe one division to offer. There was maybe a half have a scholarship.

So he came in and worked out for, for our staff and we end up offering a scoff and a scholarship and he was a all freshman guy and you know, he’s playing and he’s playing pro ball has got it. He’s got to just get married. Got it up, got a daughter. And he got to have a daughter now. So that’s how you got to sign now.

And it was just cool. During his freshman season for him to just speak up, they come in my office and just constantly be wanting to watch film asking me for advice saying coach, I’m struggling with this. Like, what do you think about that? And to see in his eyes, just how in tune he was with what I was saying.

And when the vice I was giving him when he was acting on it and we see the success happened for him and for him to just be thankful about that situation was [00:36:00] just incredible. You know, I think it’s just super rewarding. When you have a kid who says coach, you, you, you affect them my life in way in way that you don’t understand.

Like, and that’s, that’s why I got into it. You know, it was always great to win and, and all those good things. But when someone can say, Hey, like you really, you really helped me out in this situation. I think that that was like almost worn apart from me and still is, is that,

Mike Klinzing: [00:36:22] Yeah, that’s huge. When you think about the impact that you have as a coach.

And I always think back to the impact that coaches had on me as a player and the things that they may have said to me during my career at various points that I’m sure that a lot of the coaches don’t even remember the things that you know, that I remember that are important to me. They probably don’t even remember saying them to me.

And I think that’s probably a little bit of what you’re describing, where here’s this kid that you bring in as a recruit and he tells you, Hey, you’re having an impact on me in ways that you don’t even recognize. And I think that’s something that [00:37:00] all coaches, when we stop and think about it, it’s really what it’s all about is trying to have that impact.

And a lot of times that impact sure, it’s measured, as you said, and wins and losses and the immediacy of what we’re doing in the season. And we can see a kid get better with their basketball skills, but ultimately. It’s the fact that you’re still connected to them and that you know, that he just had a kid and he just got married and he’s planted.

He’s still, he still reaches out to you. And to me that, that those kinds of relationships are really what coaching ends up ultimately being about because the wins, the losses kind of fade away. And yeah, we have some things that we remember from our careers as players, but for the most part, you remember more about the relationships that you built, whether that’s with your coaching staff, with your teammates, or you were mentioning the InShot inside jokes that you guys have with the text threads and that stuff like that to me is really what it’s all about.

I think as a coaching staff, part of your job is to be able to, is to be able to make that. Make those relationships happen. And that’s really, I think [00:38:00] where coaches can have the greatest impact after you get done at Glenville state, you get an opportunity to go to James Madison, talk a little bit about how that opportunity came to pass.

Rob Summers: [00:38:09] Oh well, being at Glenville was great. You know, we had some good teams. We were on the go on a great trajectory of when again, just wanted to get back to division one level. I want us to division one experience in any aspect of it. And I wanted to see. How things are ran from a budgetary standpoint.

You know, I did a lot of recruiting at Glenville, but I wasn’t involved with all the budgets and then the scheduling and I, and all that. It was more of this, the development of the players and recruiting. So when it’s take a step back and obviously get individualized experience, but wanted to be able to see how a team’s ran behind the scenes from that aspect of the one level.

And so when their ops was able to learn how to schedule everything, I mean, from, from games to travel arrangements, to budget, how, how to, how to balance a budget of a program. And it was, it was huge being the [00:39:00] Harrisonburg, they were coming off by betterment run. Harrisonburg was a, was a beautiful city of great people at James Madison.

You know, they had a premier football program at the time. So what did when to be around that, when it would be around that and see what that experience was like, and it was, it was great for my career.

Mike Klinzing: [00:39:17] So then you get an opportunity fairly quickly and early in your career to move on as a head coach.

How does that experience. Come to you. How do you get that opportunity? Maybe talk a little bit about the interview process and then what it was like to transition from being an assistant, to being a head coach, being a head coach. Oh

Rob Summers: [00:39:37] man, I miss time we have left, but it was pretty quickly, you know being, being a director of operations I enjoyed my experience, but at when to get back on the court obviously you, you don’t have any on court responsibilities as an ops person. So definitely when to get back on the course. So it was looking at some division, one assistant positions and being from Columbus knew about our band, knew that they had [00:40:00] just went division two.

Knew that they weren’t very good. So I I, I knew my first head coaching position was going to be with a team that wasn’t very good. I wasn’t going to just walk into a premier program in the country. They had actually lost every game the season before. So I think they were 0 and 29.

And they were, they were about five games from the country’s longest ever losing streak. So they let that staff go and was able to get an interview just because I think it just the people you know, this is a lot about networking. My 80, when I was at Glenville Janet Bailey knew the AD at Urbana.

So I contacted coach Bailey and I said I actually could see I’ll reach out to their band aid and see did they have anybody in mind? And he said it was open. He was willing to sit down and talk with me. And we’ll call kind of gave him my backstory is being from central Ohio.

Knowing the area, recruited the area pretty heavily at the division two level already. I had division two experience but also, [00:41:00] you know, division one player. So I wanted to, when to run my program as high as close to division one program is as possible. And I was young and energetic. I was 29 years old going into being a head coach.

So I was just excited. I wasn’t willing to when to put the hours in a, why did they make the program some special? So you know, they’ll get the time the lady, he was like, look, come on, campus, went on campus out on canvas interview with. Sit down and have my presentation went around and talk with the president, said out with them and they were having some, some financial problems at the time.

So they were in a process of actually getting purchased by Franklin university out of Columbus. So they were kind of changing over a little bit in administration, but they were like, love. We, we want you to be the guy. You know, we, we got, obviously got to run it by I’m doing ministration, but we think this will be a great fit for us because we want to have a young, energetic head coach.

Who’s excited about being here, who sees something special in it. And I think it was, it was awesome. It was awesome experience. You know, we, we took our, we took our lumps at first year and we were [00:42:00] able to not, we didn’t break the record. So that was good. I made sure that we, I was like, man, we gotta, we gotta make sure we win with these first five games.

So we actually went on my second game. As a head coach, I’m actually staring at the basketball right now. So it was a, it was a pretty cool experience to get my first mentor, the head coach. And I think my first time out, I call it, we were playing at IUP, Indiana university, Pennsylvania, and I caught a timeout, probably two minutes of the game.

They had made a run and I was, I called time out. And it was just, it was an unreal feeling to go in there and call a timeout. And you say you see all these things that assistant you like what you would do different. And I had actually had to call my head coach after the game. Like, I apologize for everything I’ve ever said.

You need to do these this way because it is a tough, it is a tough position to be in as a head coach is definitely a great position. But I think a lot of systems don’t understand how, how tough it is to have every single call rely upon yourself.

Mike Klinzing: [00:42:52] Who did you lean on that first year?

Rob Summers: [00:42:56] Oh, yeah. I, I probably blew a hugs and beeline phone up [00:43:00] every, every day. I mean, I was calling all those to nonstop. I mean, we were trying to run a lot of coach beelines off offense. You know, so I was just calling and picking his brain about a lot of stuff that we ran when I was in school. But also just exited him about this is off the court issue that you have with your players and how you handle those things.

Because you, you always say you’re going to do things one way and you gotta understand, you gotta have what you’re going to exactly what you’re paying in place for it, for anything, whether it was the issue with a kid missing a class or anything, or being late for the bus.

So just this, having him in, in a hugs as a sounding board a hugs was great for me because he was like, You’re a head coach. Now they can never take that away from you. But you gotta understand that the buck stops with you. There’s nobody, there’s nobody to be nobody to blame for any of these losses.

So you’re going to be the guy that’s going to experience that. And you don’t really understand it until you get in that position as a head coach, you kind of just look at it, but you know, the players get the credit for the win. That is rightfully settling as a head coach. You’re going to get the [00:44:00] blame for the losses, but it’s it goes with the territory.

So those guys definitely, definitely were great sounding boards from me though.

Mike Klinzing: [00:44:05] It was the best part of being the head coach and running your own program compared to. Your prior experience as an assistant, what was just something that stands out to you as man? I really love this aspect of it that I didn’t get to do as an assistant.

But now as a head coach, I get to, I get to do, I

Rob Summers: [00:44:26] mean, there was, there was a lot, I mean, I loved being a head coach. It was stressful. I lost my hair while I was the head. I credit be good, go to the Y I don’t have any hair on my head. But being able to implement your offense, being able to to sign the kids, you, you want to sign there’s no convince again, you’re not convincing anybody of anything you convince yourself that that’s about it.

So you you’re able to make those decisions as stressful as they may be to be able to use. I want to run this offensively. This is what we’re going to run. That’s just a great feeling to be able to, [00:45:00] I want to recruit this kid. I think this kid is going to be special for us. I mean, that was just, that was just phenomenal experience.

Like I said, it was just something that you, you always want to have happen and for it to happen so quickly for me, and to be at a place where there, there was, there was pressure because there’s always personally me as the head coach. But also at the division two level, you don’t have as many eyes on you.

So I was able to learn, I was able to learn a lot, learn a lot about how to delegate tasks. I was, I was, I probably wore myself too thin because I didn’t understand everything that went into being a head coach from email you, the engagements you have, where you’re talking to, you’re talking to the rate, a radio show, then you got to go meet a booster, and then you got to go talk to a parent and you’re just like spreading yourself so thin and also trying to schedule your practice and remain, trying to do all those things.

And I think I learned over those three years, it kind of like ledger. Do a lot of coaching. And one thing they coach gates says now is the, he does less coaching now as a head coach and he did it as assistant. And I think [00:46:00] that’s definitely something that I take with.

Mike Klinzing: [00:46:02] When did you start to develop your philosophy as a coach in terms of the way you want it to run your program, the types of offenses and defenses that you wanted to run?

Obviously part of it is dictated by your personnel, but just when did you feel like you had a grasp on. How you want it to coach? If that question makes sense.

Rob Summers: [00:46:23] I think it’s, I started it started as a G as a grad assistant, I think. Yeah. I want to say even as a player I always thought we had an older staff in our staff was great.

But you know, our assistants and coach B, they were all older guys. They were guys that were in their late fifties or at least they may were like, It’s players. We couldn’t go to them with a lot of our issues because in our minds we felt as if they sometimes they didn’t understand where we’re coming from.

Right. So you use a play. You look at, my guys looked at me at 37 now, like I’m a dinosaur, you’re so old [00:47:00] like that. I’m like, guys, I’m not that old. But you know, I, I wanted to be a players coach. I wanted to be someone that they could come to about anything, not just the basketball aspect, because as a player in college, sometimes you feel like it’s a business.

And I didn’t want my guys that I coached field. It was a transactional thing that we were going through. I wanted to be very transformational. I wanted them to be able to come to me about every single issue they had from girlfriends to the academically, to family life at home with their parents. Any of those things was like what?

I went to hang my head on. I wanted to hang my head on being high energy with them because I know that how I felt as a player, I didn’t want, always want to come to practice. I was like, man, we got to practice again today. We got four hours of this gym. So I wanted to bring a lot of energy to them. I want to be very, very positive with them because I I, I felt like it was a player at the times.

You, you just see the negative things, right? When you get yelled at you, you forget about everything, everything else, that you’re experience. So [00:48:00] when it’d be very, very positive with them, and one of them to be able to come to me for any type of off the court situation that they’re going through, because they needed that you need that, you, you get it from your parents and that’s great, but you’ve been getting that for your parents for, for 18 years.

You, you want to, you want to see somebody who looks like you sounds like you’ve been through those situations and then you can listen a little bit better. So that was my biggest way of, of developing my philosophy as it would to sit there and jot down notes of what I went into my my program to look like as a, that, that little black book that does this day.

And I, I kind of scroll back through it and has gotten everything from how my program to be, to how my family liked to be. And I was even thinking about marriage at the time, but you know, one of these or the first page was always make time for your wife and kids, because I’ve seen, I saw, I saw some coaches you see coaches and you, you see guys who are like they’re always in the office until you’ve got those late nights in the office.

I’ll get me wrong, but you almost look at, and they’re like, man, you have to have like a four year old son. [00:49:00] Like you can’t be here till 10, 10:00 PM every day. And be able to experience their life. So, oh, my first page has always been, is it says it like, it’s like probably halfway down with, down that, on that page of it as always make time for your wife, your kids.

So, and that was the next, so this is before I was gonna think about being married.

Mike Klinzing: [00:49:15] As you know, Rob, that’s one of the huge challenges out there in the coaching profession. And I don’t care what level it is when you think about the amount of time that you guys put in as division one college assistants and your, your staff as, as a total.

And then I think about just where high school coaching has gone in the last 15 or 20 years compared to what it would like when you were playing high school basketball. I was playing high school basketball there wasn’t nearly the level of commitment that’s required of a high school coach. I always say that like the baseline of what you have to do as a high school coach, the amount of time you have to put into.

Just to be competitive, let alone to stand out. Now it’s just, it’s incredible. I don’t think the average parent and probably [00:50:00] the average player doesn’t necessarily realize the amount of time that they’re coaching staff putting in whether it’s at the college level or the high school level. And when you think about your time there at our band and managing your staff and helping your, your assistance to develop and become better coaches, how do you feel like, and this will kind of transition it to the next stage of your career.

When you start thinking about you start out as an assistant, you become a head coach, then you’re back to being an assistant. As you move up to the division one level at James Madison, how do you feel like though. Career arc of going assistant head coach back to assistant. How did it make you better as an assistant coach and how do you think it’ll make you better when you get your next head coaching opportunity?

Wherever that, whenever that comes?

Rob Summers: [00:50:48] That’s a great question. I mean, I, it definitely helped me out a ton distance of a fact of what I knew, what I needed from my assistants. And I had a great staff with me, with me at at our banner. You know, one of my [00:51:00] assistants, Mike Hunter is the head coach at Lakeland community college up here in Cleveland now.

So I, I great guys have rugged for me. I mean, I, they, they did a great job and I, I knew what I needed from them and they did a good job of kind of give that to me. So when I was able to go back to be an assistant, I would always. Talk to the other citizens on the staff, because you know, the system that you never been in that seat as a head coach, you will always be like, oh, why is he not doing this?

Why is he saying this? That I might do it? There’s a lot of things are going through his mind right now. He doesn’t, you guys are just sitting back like, well, if we just do it this way, and you’re not thinking about the contingency plans of what’s going to happen, if he does this if he does X, Y, and Z, you’re going to happen, but maybe why they don’t have them, but that might have.

So just being able to see how a head coach of the mind works in a Biko back to be assisted. You have some empathy, you have some, some type of you have grace, you have grace. I think sometimes assistants who’ve never been there. Don’t have a lot of great. [00:52:00] With, with head coaches because they’re like, well, why did he do this?

And I’m like, dude, you don’t understand. You gotta, you, you never been there. So it’s like raising a kid like, well, why don’t they just do this? Where they get you don’t have kids. Like what makes us do this? I’m like, you don’t have kids. I could say I compare it to that. So being able to.

You know, go back to being an assistant and being able to help and head coach and, and improve their career because those, those are the wins. The losses are going to the Wikipedia page. That’s what I always say, like these aren’t going on while we could be crazy going on there. So it’s my job as their assistant his assistant to be there for them.

And do I need to do whatever, whatever level of, of the development of the players to any, anything that needed to be done. I understand that I have to be there to make their job easier because it’s a stressful job being a head coach. And then I think just for my next level the next, whenever I’m blessed to get another get another head coaching job at whatever level of there is it’s even helping you even further because that would be an assistant.

Again, [00:53:00] I know what actually I can require my assistance, but also what I can trust them with and being more trustworthy in my staff and not being able to as a young, as a young head coach, You want to be like my mind, mind my mind I wanted to run things this way and I’m gonna do it this way and I’m gonna do it.

And I’m gonna take care of this. I’m gonna do this. And I think as a, as a head coach in the future, I’m going to allow my assistants to be more of the focal point in running things and running practices and take a little bit of a step, a hands off approach and interject when I need to interject, but not feeling as if my voice to the voice needs to be heard at all time, because guys can guide us to kind of tune you out at a certain point in time.

Right? You can be a head coach just talking about stopping and practicing. Now, everything you say doesn’t really matter as opposed to a head coach who allows us as the coach allows that development to happen. And when they chime in and they speak and they’re talking, it’s like art, this is, this is some serious stuff we need to be listened to.

So I think that definitely will help me when that time [00:54:00] comes.

Mike Klinzing: [00:54:01] I mean, it is really hard to take a step back and give something away to. Somebody else in this case, your staff, but you think about just even in a business, you’re trying to run something and there’s things that you want to keep for yourself that you don’t want to give away because you just feel like I could do it better.

But we talked to so many coaches that have said I really wasn’t successful until I was able to learn how to delegate and be able to trust my staff, to be able to give them things that they were good at, that they were experts in. And then I didn’t have to worry about that because I trusted them and I knew they were going to do a great job.

And then I could focus over here or my energy was really needed. I think that’s something that it’s really difficult to be able to do that. I think it takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of self-reflection. And as you said, it takes a lot of trust in your staff. Tell us a little bit about how you ended up with Cleveland state back here in Ohio.

Just give me the [00:55:00] story of how you get to Cleveland state. After you have a couple of seasons as an assistant at James Madison,

Rob Summers: [00:55:04] Well, when the other days Madison, I was, I was actually sitting in the summertime at a simulate academy out in Phoenix and I heard about the Cleveland state staff getting fired.

And I was like, man, like, that’s kind of crazy. You know, they get fired this late in the summer. Like, no one, no one’s changing jobs this late. Like this is in July, school starts up in a couple of weeks. So you know, the rumblings happened with the coaches on the road. You know, every code is in sideline watch the recruits.

And they were like, man, who’s gonna take that clean mistake job, man. That’s that’s, that’s a crazy job, man. They only got two players, all the guys in the portal, you, you see, you see Twitter. They had like a, probably, I want to say you, man, it’s like 11 names pop up on Twitter, like in a row, boom, this kid’s at a portal.

This kid, this kid’s a portal and I’m sitting there with every other coach and they’re going, man, like, yeah, man, who’s gonna take that job. And lo and behold, an hour later, I get a phone call. From one of my good friends, Darris Nichols, who was my point guard at West Virginia. And he was like, Hey, Dennis Gates has got to call you.

He wants, he’s going to [00:56:00] offer you a job. I think. And I was like, where you’re at? And he was like, Cleveland state. I said, hold on what? So I said, all right, man, I’ll listen. So coach gates actually called me. I was on Phoenix at the time. We spoke for about 35, 40 minutes. I went up into the Concourse at the arena was a game it and you know, he was just I got the job here I know you’re from the state of Ohio.

I know I know you’re good at what you do offensively, which have hosted development recruiting wise. I think you’re, I think you have a chance to be a future head coach at the division one level. I definitely wanted to bring you in here bringing us staff. So I said, well, coach, let me call you back.

You know, I’m I’m finishing this day up I gotta watch a couple more kids. I’ll call you back tonight. So FaceTimed him that night for about three hours. And he just kind of gave me every everything that he wanted is probably going to be about he talked about his, his, his three CS of I want to be changed in the classroom and the community.

He thought about his philosophy on five duet, friendship, love, accountability, trust, discipline on selfish, enthusiasm, [00:57:00] and toughness. He talked about all these things and it just resonated with me, resonated with he was like, I want to be able to. I have my players come off is every day. I want to be able to give my players hugs and or headlocks.

You know, sometimes they’re gonna need a hug for me, somebody put in a headlock, he’s like, I want to stay up. It’s like that. And I want to stay up that I think can be future head coaches. So I actually called my wife after that and I was like, maybe I’m ready to commit. And she said, commit to what you’re not committed.

Like you make, you might take a job offer, but you don’t, you don’t commit you just a days over with, but that’s how I felt just when come sit down and talk with coach gates just the genuine tone of his voice. And just knowing I knew him, I knew his brother mine actually grew up.

I mean, I know that earlier story I told you about those guys that when I was in third grade fall, those guys at a park district. Our mom was one of those guys. So I didn’t know coach gates because he was actually going to school in the city at the time. So he didn’t stay out of the south suburbs.

He was going to school near his grandmother’s house, but [00:58:00] I knew our ma I knew our mind and I would always get Cody gates and his, and his brother confused on the road recruiting wise, because they look so, so similar. But you know, just being able to connect with coach and, and hear his story and what he envisioned for his program.

And you know, I just thought, I, I say, coach, how good are we going to be guys? Like we get to players. We don’t have a team. You know, I’m, I’m nervous. I’m nervous about them with your coach, but I’m with you. And he said, look, if you trust me, I trust you. Let’s go, let’s get this thing going. And it’s been, it’s been a special experience me.

Mike Klinzing: [00:58:29] It’s quite a story. I mean, it’s interesting always how jobs come to come across somebody’s desk. And you know, here you are, you’re sitting at a sitting at a basketball event, you’re doing some recruiting and all of a sudden the call comes in and boom, you’re changing jobs. You’re telling your wife, Hey, we’re going to go and do something different.

And all of a sudden here you are back in Ohio, back in Cleveland. And as I told you, before we talked on the podcast, like I go back with Cleveland state basketball a long way. Cause my dad was a professor at [00:59:00] Cleveland state. I think he started maybe in, I don’t know, 19 75, 76. Now he’s been retired for some 20 odd years, but I grew up going to, going to games and whittling gym, going to games and old public hall where there was like 200 people at public hall and you’d come out.

And that was back in the day when downtown Cleveland had no permanent residents, I come out and I always felt like it was like a nuclear winter. Like tumbleweeds rolling down the street. So when I, when I came out of those, when I came out of those games and but you know, watching, watching Frank Edwards and Lee Reed and Darren Tillis, Mike Sweeney and that whole group, and then of course you had the 80 16 with mouse and Clinton, Ramsey and Clinton Smith and Kenny Robertson and that whole group.

And you know, I got an opportunity at some point to play some pickup basketball down at down in the gym. And so I spent a lot of time with Cleveland state basketball, and I always try to keep an eye on what’s going on. It’s always been a program that Kevin Mackey got it to that point.

And then obviously I had some [01:00:00] difficulty and since then, it’s, it’s kind of risen up at times. And then kind of gone back down, it seems like coach gates and that your staff has had a going in the right direction. What are some of the things that when you look at. Cleveland state basketball, where you guys are right now.

What’s going really well for you. As you look at getting this program where you guys want it to be, what are some of the positives that you see at Cleveland state right now in this moment?

Rob Summers: [01:00:27] I’m thinking that the people administration that we have right now with president sands and Skyward RDD, they are very, very invested in in, in, in making this a premier program not only from on campus for our normal students, but also for our student athletes.

So they are they’re attacking this thing full, go with the resources and this excitement behind it. You know, I think that’s one thing that she, that you need at a school a mid-major school is that an administration that’s excited about athletics. There’s excited about the staff they brought [01:01:00] in that are embedded.

And developing the, the campus in general. And I think that they’ve done a great job here at Cleveland state not even, and they’d be able to be past 10 years 20th, the past 10 years I came on a visit here and officially as a sophomore. And when Raleigh Massimino was a coach and I remember.

They had a holiday in

Mike Klinzing: [01:01:23] that was the only door that was the only door

Rob Summers: [01:01:25] that was crazy. I remember coming to my visit and they would show me the holiday. And I was like, oh, this is, this is a dorm.

It was, it was, it was weird for me. It’s like a sophomore and I’m like just going around visiting schools. And that, that was one place they showed me. So to see what they’ve done knock that down, they build a new quick comments as you can have on campus apartments now. And then they continue to do those things, the, the ideas and the, and the thing that’s resources that are putting to the school in general, not only athletics, but the school in general was just amazing.

So to see that has [01:02:00] been, there’s a great a great positive thing they always say, when you see you see kids actually come with the UC bulldozers you know that someone’s developing. I think that they were continue to develop here at Cleveland state and our guys.

That we’ve recruited a Coach Gates brought in are the same type of way. They’re, they’re, they’re bulldozers, they’re, they’re constructed. They get control. Cause the head’s on they’re ready to develop something that has had his ups. You know, he’s had his downs as of recently, but you know, obviously you’ve seen it clean.

The state can be a special place and they come and you can win. But now that was all about me. You know, maintaining that winning you think you’re going to get the fans, you’re going to get people excited about the program. You just have to continue to maintain that and sustain that going forward.

And you know, keeping people in the greater Cleveland area, excited about Cleveland state in the state of Ohio, getting them excited about Cleveland state. I mean, I I’ve been in the airports and in Dallas or Denver and offer people I’ll clean the state now watch you guys like, so it’s, it’s just, it’s just cool to see a school that’s not a high major school that has a following [01:03:00] of people because they see just how hard our guys play and that’s been our bread and butter.

Mike Klinzing: [01:03:05] So obviously the key to continue to build the program is being able to. Recruit and get good players on campus and bring them into your program. So when you’re out on the road, recruiting is a question that I always like to ask coaches who are out doing that type of thing. When you look at. Player, how do you balance out watching them play AAU basketball versus watching them play high school basketball?

Obviously there’s a certain level of talent and athleticism that you want to player to have, but what are some of the things that you’re looking for and maybe what do you look for specifically with them in a high school setting versus what you might look for them, but in a.

Rob Summers: [01:03:45] I think it’s all the same and one, and the same with those things, obviously with our high school, they’re more of the focal points.

A lot of the guys that we’re recruiting there, they’re the man right there. They’re the best player on their high school team. And when they go to play AAU, they’re playing on these shoots, these two circuits. So [01:04:00] they’re, they’re playing  basketball. So maybe they’re the the, the fourth option so just seeing them and how they react to not being the focal point is a huge thing.

We look for, we, we recruit a lot about the character and the toughness of a kid. So we, we. See the things that aren’t going to be kind of putting that in that box score, right? We want to see those guys that are, that are trying to dock a loose ball. You see those guys that are, that are high five and their teammates after even after they mess up a teammate, just picking their teammates, set up those guys that go to the bench and aren’t complaining in the arm sitting in the bench while everybody else is in the huddle.

Those things, I know that’s the reason we’ve been successful because we have guys like that on our team guys that are willing to sacrifice guys that understand that it’s bigger than them. And because there’s a lot of talented basketball players, right? There’s a ton of talented know guys across the country.

But talent isn’t always win you games, right? It’s sometimes you can have a toddy kid who’s just so bad for culture that the it’s, you, you see it anywhere. You see that a million times [01:05:00] where people say, well, how did they win? How did they win with those guys? They had X amount of X amount of five stars is because you got to notice those little things.

They kind of go into the game that most.

Mike Klinzing: [01:05:12] Yeah, that intangible piece of a player I think is so critical. And I think you, you go back in time and I think it was always important to coaches, but I think there was much, I think there was a more a bigger willingness to overlook some of those character issues.

And I think now we have so many coaches describe themselves as a coach that looks for those character pieces, because you want to look, you want, you’re going to spend a lot of time as a college coach with those players that you’re recruiting. And you want to spend some time with guys that you like, and that are going to have a positive impact on the team environment.

As you said, if you have one or two, it doesn’t take very many guys as you know, to, to ruin the whole culture. And so you want to make sure that you bring the right guy. Into the [01:06:00] program and continue to build that character, continue to build that continuity, continue to build that camaraderie with your team once they’re on campus.

What are some things that you guys do to make sure that you balance out the competitiveness? Because obviously you want kids competing hard for playing time, for minutes for starting positions. And yet at the same time, you want to build up that family atmosphere, that comradery between teammates. So how do you guys balance that out?

What do you talk about when you’re talking about that as a staff of, Hey, we’ve got to get our guys competitive and yet we still want them to compete for each other. How do you balance those two things out?

Rob Summers: [01:06:44] That’s exactly what we’re going through this year. You know, obviously we have a very talented team with the older guys and w we’re going to be extremely deep.

And you know, a lot of times with God guys are worried about themselves and. Does a great job. And our staff has a great job of [01:07:00] allowing them to step outside of themselves and be on selfish. I mean, that’s the one thing that we’ve been talking about is like, man, we were very unselfish team. So any at any sign of selfishness, we kind of, this week, we have a thing called hot call us where we just call it out.

Like, man, that’s selfish. Like we just we’ll sit down and we’ll start practicing we’ll and we’ll talk about it because it’s like sometimes you see it as a coach and you kind of like, ah, that’s just him being him. And I think we require our gods to play so hard that a lot of the times they can’t we got them to send, they can’t play that hard for 40 minutes.

Everybody wants to be 40 minutes, but with how hard we play, we’re like, guys, you can’t, you can’t be that intensive 40 minutes. Like, and I think I see that they see how tired they are and they’re, and they’re willing to sacrifice those minutes because of what we know, what we’re trying to accomplish, which is winning out of the horizon league championships.

So being able to make better. But also having those team team building type moments where we’re always together and always talking about. So you guys are so in tune with each [01:08:00] other and our staff, they see it from our staff. I think it starts with, with us as a staff you look at a staff that’s connected with myself Dru Joyce, Ryan Sharbough.

Chase Goldstein. We, we, our guys that when they come in, we’re all, we’re all with each other’s offices. We’re always talking, we’re always joking. We always have our kids playing with it around with each other, our wives targeted. So it’s you see it from us and they just can’t help. But to feel as if they don’t want to let their teammates down us as coaches and they’re willing to sacrifice a lot of those things, even when they, that selfish does kind of creep is, is like we hit the situation.

Mike Klinzing: [01:08:36] What’s the biggest challenge that when you think about building the type of program that you guys want to build there at Cleveland state, what’s the biggest challenge that you guys face in order to get.

Rob Summers: [01:08:49] I think when we first get here was changing the, that changed that brand that it hadn’t been cleaned and they had been doing well for a couple of years.

So you, you were losing a lot of the [01:09:00] local talent just because. It wasn’t a lot of access, right. And then if you’re going to have the freedom to stay in your hometown, you want to away, you don’t want to stay in your hometown and see your friend and have your friends going to be gaming you.

And you’re losing by 20. It was about 20. You might as well go across,

Mike Klinzing: [01:09:18] we’ll be out of town. So that, that doesn’t get right in your face. Right?

Rob Summers: [01:09:21] Exactly. Exactly. So I think that’s been that was one of our biggest, bigger challenges when we first got in here is just re-establishing those recruiting connections with, with the city of Cleveland and the high school coaches and, and and the high school coaches and AAU coaches around here have been wonderful.

You know, obviously myself and coach Joyce being from the state, we know a lot of these guys already. So that was a good connection then for them to sit down with coach gates and to see his vision for the program they were just excited, like man, how bang they were from day one, Coach was knocking out of the park with all these guys, just sit down and explain to them how he was going to run his program.

And so getting those guys, making sure these local kids that they can play at this [01:10:00] level obviously we’re going to lose, we’re going to lose some local kids. You know, they’re going to be some, a local kids that are five star kids that are high major guys, but you never know in this day and age a lot of these kids might want to go away and they see you know, stuff’s not going great with where they’re at and they’re looking at come back, come back home.

And for us a talent pool that’s around the city of Cleveland. It’s just going to be important for us to continue to maintain the relationships up and see where that goes.

Mike Klinzing: [01:10:27] Yeah. I think that local flavor is really important. I think it’s. Really critical for mid-major schools that if you have especially Cleveland state, when you think about being in a Metro area, and it’s not a rural campus, it’s not a place that’s surrounded by small towns.

You’re talking about a big, major metropolis that has really good basketball all around it. Multiple division, one players that are obviously coming out of the Cleveland area every year. And so to be able to, as you said, make those inroads, build those relationships with high school coaches. You guys are Ohio guys that have those kinds of [01:11:00] connections to be that’s really important because obviously you signed a kid from a local high school and suddenly, maybe those people were, maybe they were lukewarm Cleveland state fans, or maybe they hadn’t been to a game in years and now suddenly they want to go and see this kid that they watch play in high school.

Now they’re going to come and check out some Cleveland state games. You build them up and bring them into your fan base. I think that’s so important. That’s always been one of the challenges I think at Cleveland state is how do you get more fans? In the door and get people excited about the program.

Obviously, the first way you do that is you win. And then I think too, by having local players evolve your, it just as one more step towards being able to build up and get that excitement going. Like you talked about earlier that you get people excited about it. And the program obviously has a tradition and they’ve had success in the past.

And when you get it going in the right direction, you start winning. Then you start getting people in the door and then you start build that excitement. I think that’s where you guys are headed. It’s exciting to be able to [01:12:00] see that as someone who I, so, like I said, I grew up with Cleveland state basketball and.

It’s just exciting to be able to see it starting to head in the right direction. And I love what you guys are doing with it before we get out. Rob, I want to give you, I want to ask one more question for you. That is when you think about what you get to do everyday. I think back to the beginning of your conversation of coach Huggins tells you, Hey, you gotta start getting into coaching.

And so now you’ve been in it for quite a while. When you think about what you do on a daily basis, what brings you the most joy about your job as a college basketball coach?

Rob Summers: [01:12:35] Man it’s a lot. I mean, I’m extremely blessed to be a college basketball coach. I like sometimes I’m on the way to work. I’m like, man, this is just an awesome, it’s just like how many people get to coach a game that they love at this level and have a career out of it.

So God is just like wonderful for allow me to do this. And you know, so I thank him every day for that. And just the [01:13:00] people that I’m around and just being able to associate myself with future leaders and future husbands and fathers, and like knowing that I’m having some type of positive influence on their lives.

Is just super rewarding. Like like to be set up before the wins and losses. I mean, the winds are great championships, a great the rightly tempted last year was a wonderful experience. But one thing I told her, I told our staff afterwards, man, I was like, man, you know what I’m excited about, who I’m excited for.

Like, this is kind of cool that we want it. And I, I didn’t expect to feel that way. I explained it to feel like this just a complete euphoria of like, oh my God we, we did it after taking a whole program that was struggling, we did it, we did it. And I was like, man, I’m just so excited for the guys that were here.

The last staff and like kind of what they went through with, they have changing the trust they put in. Okay. Yeah. And so just definitely winning a championship was used. Great. But I think the biggest, the biggest joy that you get from that is the guys that were here with the last staff. And you know, our grad [01:14:00] assistant Dylan King, who has had been here and he’s like either CSU got through, went through, he’s been there for seven years is a manager.

Now he’s in working in administration for our program, a win for him and a championship for him because this is our modern was just so. It was a super exciting moment for myself. And just, so this is a joy to see how excited he was and in those players faces because again, I think that’s something that they can, they can tell their children about for years to come their dad, their dad was able to play in this as we turn them in.

And that’s something that not a lot of kids get to experience, especially in the, especially in the bubble. I mean you only get one bubble, you only, you only have one knock on wood. You’re not going to waste a big bubble ever. And that for those guys that play in it, w w was, was great.

So that’s just that, that’s the joy that I get is just seeing how excited those guys get about their accomplishments and, and seeing how they’re going to develop to be future future leaders in the future. So that.

Mike Klinzing: [01:14:51] Absolutely. I think those relationships like we’ve talked about throughout the entire pod, that that’s really what it’s all about.

And the wins and losses are nice. The championships are nice at [01:15:00] all. Obviously feels good when those things happen. But ultimately I think those relationships and being able to see the success that the young man that you’re getting an opportunity to coach, that’s really what it’s all about before we wrap up, Rob, want to give you a chance to share how people can find out more about your program at Cleveland state.

How can they reach out to you after listening? If they got a question they just want to find out more about you and what you’re doing. And then after you do that, I’ll jump back in and wrap things up. Oh,

Rob Summers: [01:15:25] well, if you want to contact me, you can send me email. My email is I’m really good about getting back on emails and I look forward to talk with anybody whether it’s about young coaches that are in this profession they’re, they want to what I want to could be a climate letter or people that have questions about our program and or anything about.

Our schedule or anything like that. I mean, obviously you follow me on Twitter @Robsummers33 that’s on Twitter or Instagram. [01:16:00] And so most of my Instagram is and pictures of my kids. So outside of basketball, I see that it’s all my kids. So you can see me, you can see my kids, but during basketball season, I have a lot of basketball content on there.

And then obviously starting up with a physical practice here soon. You’ll see a lot of our guys on there as well, but CSU underscore basketball is our, our Twitter and our Instagram. So people can go on there. That’s going to have all CSU stuff. If you don’t want to see a third and marina my, my five or my two year olds can go there just to see pictures of our guides and videos of our workouts.

But again, to my emails, it would be great. You know, my email is a great way to get in contact with me. Like I said, Pretty quickly to those anybody, any, any local coaches or anybody that way wants to come watch practice. I’ve had several people hit a bit, hit us up. You know, you got to wear a mask indoors on a CSU campus, but we would definitely encourage people to come watch us and pick our brains a little bit because we’re all trying to try and learn from one another.

So I go to high school practices all the time and I’m constant looking at drills and like, Hey, I like that. I might have had to take that and use that for my own. [01:17:00] So definitely look forward to talking to people about that.

Mike Klinzing: [01:17:03] Yeah, it’s amazing how we all borrow and steal right from other coaches, no matter what the level is, there’s always something that you can learn no matter what you do.

That’s one of the great things about the game of basketball is coaches are willing to share, and there’s always something new that you can learn. I cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to jump out with us. Really appreciate it. It’s always great to have local guys here in the Cleveland area.

We’ve had a lot of Cleveland area, local high school coaches working our way through the division one level and the state of Ohio. And I’m super appreciative of you and your time. So thank you and to everyone out there. Thanks for listening. And we will catch you on our next episode.

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