PATRICK CARNEY & DAN KRIKORIAN FROM SLAPPIN’ GLASS – EPISODE 387

Slappin' Glass

Website – https://slappinglass.substack.com/archive

Email – krikorian@chapman.edu

Twitter – @SlappinGlass

Slappin’ Glass is curated by the duo of former Chapman University basketball teammates Patrick Carney and Dan Krikorian. With the aim to produce the highest quality basketball and coaching content from sources all around the world, the duo combine the knowledge and experience of Patrick’s 14 years of professional playing and coaching experience in Germany along with Dan’s 13 years as a coach at the High School and Collegiate levels. Both basketball junkies, Pat and Dan started Slappin’ Glass in May of 2020 and launched the Slappin’ Glass Podcast in August of 2020, hosting guests in deep-dive X and O conversations.

We have a huge announcement coming on Wednesday, November 11 when we will be launching our Hoop Heads Mentorship Program for Coaches. We’re excited to continue making an impact on the coaching profession one coach at a time. Follow the Hoop Heads Mentorship Launch on Twitter @hoopheadspod

Make sure you check out our other basketball pods on the Hoop Heads Pod Network including Thrive with Trevor Huffman , Beyond the Ball, The CoachMays.com Podcast, Player’s Court, Bleachers & Boards and our team focused NBA Podcasts: Cavalier Central, Grizz n Grind, Knuck if you Buck, The 305 Culture, Blazing the Path and #Lakers. We’re looking for more NBA podcasters interested in hosting their own show centered on a particular team. Shoot an email to info@hoopheadspod.com if you’re interested in learning more and bringing your talent to our network.

Be ready to take some notes you listen to this episode with Patrick Carney and Dan Krikorian from Slappin’ Glass.

What We Discuss with Patrick & Dan from Slappin’ Glass

  • Patrick tagging along with his Dad when he played pickup basketball got him his start in the game
  • Competition, comaraderie, and the ability to work on the game by yourself
  • Dan playing multiple sports but always seeming to drift back to basketball
  • Memories of playing a rival school as a high school players
  • The story of how each of them ended up at Chapman University
  • The benefits of being a multisport athlete
  • Studying football coaches and how they do things
  • Their adjustment to college basketball as players at Chapman University
  • Building long lasting bonds and friendships as teammates
  • Dan’s transition from business to music to coaching
  • Dan’s ahha moment when he knew coaching was where he was supposed to be
  • Realizing that coaches have to deal with a lot off the floor that has nothing to do with basketball
  • How Patrick got an opportunity to play overseas following college
  • Why Patrick felt the pressure to keep striving and improving as a player throughout his career
  • His teammate overseas that cook spaghetti with sauce in the pot with water
  • How they hatched the idea for Slappin’ Glass
  • Showcasing the innovative coaches in European basketball
  • “We just enjoy talking about basketball and learning about the game and studying great coaches and players.”
  • “Let’s put out the highest quality content of stuff that we’re interested in and that we want to learn about and find the people that also want to learn about that too.”
  • The Tweet that went viral for them about Yeshiva University’s 5 out motion offense
  • Studying the trends in the game they want to highlight
  • Expanding with their Slappin’ Glass Podcast and Newsletter
  • Looking at how defenses are dealing with off ball movement against the pick and roll
  • Why Dan is fascinated by the dribble hand-off
  • Offensive creativity with cutting and screening actions

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TRANSCRIPT FOR PATRICK CARNEY & DAN KRIKORIAN FROM SLAPPIN’ GLASS – EPISODE 387

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason Sunkle today, but I am pleased to be joined by Patrick Carney and Dan Krikorian from Slappin’ Glass.

Dan Krikorian: [00:00:13] Thanks for having us. Thank you for having us.

Mike Klinzing: [00:00:16] We’re excited to have you on and get a chance to talk to you about some exciting things that you guys are building with Slappin’ Glass.

And we’ll get into that as we go through the episode, but one is to start off by kind of going back in time to when you were kids. And, Patrick, why don’t you go ahead and start, tell us a little bit about how you got into the game when you were younger.

Patrick Carney: [00:00:32] Yeah. for sure, I got into the game, pretty much through my dad.

He, had played in college. He played at the University of Pacific and, yeah, just growing up. He would always play with his buddies. They play once during the week and once on the weekend. And so. Those were always kind of like highlights for me going with him either on the weekends, getting donuts and then watching him play basketball or playing in the evening and then getting pizza afterwards.

So that’s kind of where I grew up and kind of fell in love [00:01:00] with the game and seeing my dad play. And then eventually as I grew and developed, I was able to play with them and playing pickup. And then from there it took off

Mike Klinzing: [00:01:10] What about the game did you like the most, besides obviously just watching your dad and spending time with him.

Patrick Carney: [00:01:15] I mean, what I always liked was the competition for sure. Always kind of drew me. I mean, seeing them play, everyone was friends, but you know, it’s always fun when you can beat your buddies and get to talk a little smack. So like the comraderie always kind of drew me as well. And yeah. And then, I mean, another thing that maybe isn’t related, but you could always play basketball by yourself as far as just shooting, you just needed a ball and a hoop.

And so it was accessible 24/7.

Mike Klinzing: [00:01:42] Absolutely. I think that’s one of the things, when you talk to a lot of people who have played multiple sports from the younger, I think people that tend to go towards basketball. It’s kind of that two faceted thing that you just talked about, where, yeah, there’s such a team element to the game, but that there’s also the ability.

To go out and just practice on your own, as opposed to you think about being a football player, [00:02:00] you know, baseball player needs somebody to throw you the ball, or you need somebody to go up against basketball. You can spend, as we all know, hours and hours and hours just by yourself working and improving.

And I think there’s something to be said for that. When you, when you think back on the childhood of a lot of people who have stayed in the game as players or coaches, whatever, a lot of people have that similar story to you that they loved. The team aspect, but then they also love the ability that they could go out and improve at the, at the game when they were by themselves as well.

Patrick Carney: [00:02:27] Exactly. I mean, yeah, that’s what I always loved. I mean, there was never any barriers to it. Like if I wanted to get better, it was just on me to go out and do it and not like you said, yeah, I needed 10 other guys to play baseball game or someone to catch the ball for me.

Dan Krikorian: [00:02:45] Yeah. So similar to Pat, where growing up, my dad actually did not play basketball in high school.

My dad played football in college,  but as a kid,  I played basically every [00:03:00] sport you could, football, soccer, baseball, basketball, all of that. But I always just found myself coming back to basketball. And it was something that I always wanted to practice. And we got a hoop out in my front yard and like Pat mentioned too, it was just so great to go out there with a ball and spend two hours just shooting by yourself.

And then if the neighborhood kids came over, that was fun too, to play and lower the hoop to the six feet and dunk and stuff like that. absolutely. You know, I remember really kind of getting into the game around second or third grade, my grandpa coached an NJB team of mine. And I remember just that whole experience was great.

And I started to really fall in love with the game around that time. And then it just kind of grew from there.

Mike Klinzing: [00:03:47] All right. So you guys end up playing some high school basketball and then eventually get to be teammates in college. So talk a little bit about maybe each one of you share a favorite memory that you have from your time as a high school basketball player.

I think it’s always fascinating [00:04:00] to go back and hear what. Different people remember about their high school career. So I don’t know which one of you wants to go first.

Dan Krikorian: [00:04:07] Sure. I can take this. Gosh, favorite high school memory. you’re starting to reach back here now. but. Gosh it’s like most things coaching now too.

The guys always remember the trips that we would do overnight trips, or tournaments or whatnot. And you’re hanging out in the hotel room with your buddies and things like that. I think the things I remember though from like being on the court or playing, Are we at a huge Crosstown rivalry?

Pat’s probably smiling over in Germany cause he knows the Crosstown rivalry that my high school Costa Mesa had against the  two schools in a smaller town. And you would pack the gym and everybody you felt like from the city was there. And so, yeah. Those games every year, one at our place, one of their place were always just really memorable and a lot of fun and ones.

I still go back to if I can, [00:05:00] now that I’m older, just because it’s a fun community event,

Mike Klinzing: [00:05:03] Did you have a winning record in those games?

Dan Krikorian: [00:05:05] We did happy to happy to say we did.

Patrick Carney: [00:05:12] Yes, similar to, to Dan. I mean, you know why every time you’re playing your rival, it’s always a memorable game, fun game. Like Dan said, just cause the gyms are so packed. but yeah, it was an away game against our rival and we are actually down for sure, double digits in the first half and just in the second half, like whatever happens, just clicked.

And like everything went our way. We turned the game around and got a huge upset victory. On the road. And that’s what makes the game so special when you have moments like that or just like, everything goes right. And you’re sixth, seventh, eighth, man. They’re all coming in. They’re all contributing.

And like, it was such a great team team victory in a team camaraderie and just the bus rides back was just incredible. So that kind of always jumps out at me as I look back at [00:06:00] kind of my high school career.

Mike Klinzing: [00:06:03] All right. So as you guys are going through your high school career, thinking about. College basketball, right?

From the very beginning as your young kids, or is that something that you get into your junior and senior year? You start to think that maybe it’s going to become a reality. Just talk a little bit about the recruiting process, that decision to make your college decision about where you’re going to go play and then how you guys ended up meeting and just what at all how it came together at Chapman.

Dan Krikorian: [00:06:28] Go ahead.

Patrick Carney: [00:06:29] Yeah, for me, I started just playing only basketball in like Fifth sixth grade. And I mean, I really kind of fell in love with it and then knew I always wanted to continue to play past high school. So starting my freshman year, like any kid it’s like, I’m going to go division one or just some pipe dream, but I always knew I was going to play because I just loved the game too much.

The thought of me just stopping after four years of high school was never like going to be an option. [00:07:00] so yeah,  going into my senior year, I believe I wasn’t too active. I mean, as far as pursuing any off season club teams or anything mainly just through summer league with my high school team I got a couple offers, but it was mainly Chapman that stood out. I mean, as far as just how active they were in pursuing me the, especially the assistant coach was very active and always calling me and they just kept the regular communication. So for me, it, it turned into really a no brainer because I talked to some other clubs, but just the, the interest was so strong from Chapman and I knew I could come in and play right away and yeah.

That’s all I really wanted to do was just play right away so, that’s kinda how I ended up at Chapman.

Mike Klinzing: [00:07:48] So how many games during that season, when you were a senior, how many games would you say interest? How many of your high school games were they at? Were they there most, all the time?

Patrick Carney: [00:07:56] No, I would not say all the time.

That’s a very good question that I really [00:08:00] couldn’t. I mean, I think maybe five games would have been my guess Chapman and my high school were very local, so I’m sure they were at several of the tournaments we were at it. Wasn’t very hard to meet me  or see me. Yeah.

Dan Krikorian: [00:08:19] Yeah, playing college, basketball was always a dream of mine. I would go with my grandparents and parents to local junior college or college games when I was younger. And so it was always something I was really wanting to do. I did play four sports in high school, so I was unsure.

I always knew basketball was where I wanted to end up, but I was always sort of unsure exactly with the college sport route, which one I would end up landing on, but basketball by the time I got to my senior year. I was able to be at a place where looking at a few different schools to go and play [00:09:00] at and kinda like how Pat mentioned Chapman, first of all, is a great academic school.

And so it offered a great academic environment that I was looking for. And then I had a chance to stay closer to home a little bit, which I liked and then also chance to get on the floor. So, that was kind of my path in getting to Chapman.

Mike Klinzing: [00:09:21] All right. So as a multi-sport athlete, let me ask you this.

At this point as a multi-sport athlete, we all know that unfortunately there’s a trend in all you sports, not just use that you basketball, but that kids seem to kind of be forced into this club scene where they, people are adults in particular are forcing them or encouraging them strongly to come, come and specialize in one sport.

And oftentimes parents who don’t have experience with. Raising a kid in the youth sports environment, I don’t know, fall forward is the right word, but kind of get roped into that particular thing. So what would you say to a kid who’s, let’s say nine, 10 years old and is thinking about, Hey, I got to [00:10:00] drop all my other sports, cause I just want to be a baseball player.

I just want to be a basketball player. How do you go about how did you encourage a parent or a player at that age to just continue to be on the multi-sport path instead of specializing.

Dan Krikorian: [00:10:12] Yeah. I mean, I agree with you coming from playing all different sports growing up, I think it’s always helped me as I’ve gotten to higher levels and understanding how different sports work like as I know we’ll get into this later with Slappin’ Glass and, and kind of where I coach at now at the collegiate level I study a lot of football.

I saw a lot of offensive coordinators and how they do stuff and how it relates to basketball. And I think that sports relate to each other, but to your point about younger kids, I do think that kids specialize probably too early. And I think there’s been like some scientific evidence too, of potential injuries down the road, if you’re using the same muscles over and over all the time.

And I think that playing different sports, [00:11:00] especially when you’re younger and figuring out what you love or don’t love. And I think it’s really healthy and I think it makes for a better overall athlete. I know when we recruit guys to Chapman, I always like when a guy plays another sport, Not that it’s a make or break thing at all, but you know, sometimes a guy plays is a pitcher quarterback or something.

And it’s always interesting, having a round or athlete, but at the same time when you get to the high school level and there’s someone like Pat who just wanted to play basketball, I think at that point too, it’s it makes sense to start narrowing down as well, especially when you’re looking for the next level.

Mike Klinzing: [00:11:36] What’s your feeling on that?

Patrick Carney: [00:11:37] Yeah. Yeah. I completely agree. I mean, I think at a young age it’s important to play all these sports and like Dan said, just learn your biomechanics, learn how to catch different balls, how to make different movements stimulate all your muscle groups.

but especially too, I think for the mind. And like Dan said, I mean, I know there’s been books and some studies like to play different games with different, Yeah, [00:12:00] constraints and problem solving. Like it’s also good for an athlete as they develop and then begin to specialize, like just having these different problem solving skills and being able to process different stimuli or different game situations it’s important that you have a broad experience and not just specialized. So really, because then I think you become too narrow-minded, and less creative.

Mike Klinzing: [00:12:27] Well, I think that one of the things that you see too, is that as our youth sports landscape has changed where kids aren’t just playing, maybe the pickup sports that.

We all played when we were younger, where you were playing backyard football, or you were playing baseball on the Sandlot, or you’re playing pickup basketball, which we know isn’t nearly as prevalent today as it was back in the day. And so, as a result of that, I think you end up with maybe a situation where a kid only played one formal high school sport, but they might’ve played a lot of sports growing up from the time they [00:13:00] were seven years old until they’re 13 or 14.

Out in the neighborhood with their friends. And I think there’s something to be said for that being missing. And I think it makes it a challenge. I think it makes a challenge for developing that competitiveness. And as you guys have talked about the, just the spatial awareness of an athlete and being able to use different muscle groups.

And so it’ll be interesting. I think when we look forward, let’s say another 15 or 20 years and to see how these things evolve, just to see what, again, the impact is in terms of injury and in terms of. The development of players and kids, and as people, I just think it’s a, because it’s such a different scenario than it was 15 or 20 years ago in terms of how kids are growing up.

It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out ultimately in the end.

Dan Krikorian: [00:13:41] Absolutely.

Patrick Carney: [00:13:42] Yeah, I agree.

Mike Klinzing: [00:13:43] All right. So college basketball. Talk to me a little bit about the adjustment going from high school to college and what your experiences were like at Chapman as college athletes.

Dan Krikorian: [00:13:54] Well, I’ll start on this one, then I’ll take it back.

Cause I know you’ll be too modest with your career. So I’m going to say [00:14:00] before Pat was an outstanding college basketball player, and, and had a phenomenal career. And so Pat and I played together, I would say for my career, I was like, probably. The best six, seventh man in college.  I was that role that the shooter off the bench, I started a little bit here and there.

but I started my coaching career early in college. Cause I was able to see a lot from the bench and see a lot how Pat played, how,

Patrick Carney: [00:14:27] and so these are such lies right now,

Dan Krikorian: [00:14:31] but, But I mean, college was amazing. I mean, transitioning to it. I was lucky to get on the floor as a freshmen with Pat, and, and have a good career and just the strength and the size and the speed of the next level was an adjustment.

And one that, now as a coach, you try to help guys through. We had four great years playing together. We played on four really great teams. I think we almost won 20 games every year, at Chapman, [00:15:00] but you could talk much more with Pat about.

His career because it was much more extensive than mine at the college level.

Patrick Carney: [00:15:11] Well, I mean, first of all, it was my honor to share the court with Dan. So don’t listen to what he says, but no, I mean, definitely what sticks out. I mean, coming from high school, even to the division three level is yeah, the physicality of the game. I mean, you’re just now playing against men. Excuse me, men 20, 21 year olds, and it’s a much more physical game, a little bit faster, and especially defensively becomes much more demanding than compared to your high school defense.

So that really jumped out at me. But obviously once you go through your growing pains and just, I mean, as your body naturally develops. And you just pick up the speed of the game. Like from there, I mean, I had a great four years. Dan said we had some really talented teams, and had really successful seasons.

And, yeah, I [00:16:00] mean more so too. My biggest takeaway too is just, I mean, obviously me and Dan have remained real good friends, but just the camaraderie and the guys I met and the experiences I had more so off the court is what really stuck, stood out to me. as when I look back on my four years there at Chapman.

Mike Klinzing: [00:16:16] Yeah, I think it’s such an intense experience that you look back on it. And you’re like, man, we went through a lot together, especially with somebody who came in your same class and that you spent four years with. I think there’s no doubt that those bonds are, are ones that remain strong, just because of everything that you have to go through and fight through and work together to achieve that bond with teammates is one that that’s really, really strong as you look forward.

And as you look back on your career, so tell us a little bit about. What you guys thought you were going to be doing what you thought you were going to do for a career when you guys were finished? so Dan, were you always thinking that coaching was in, was in your future? Is that something that you were always looking for and, and Patrick, you can kind of give us an idea.

I know you had an opportunity to, to play professionally for a number of years. So just [00:17:00] kind of give us an idea of where your head was at, in terms of careers, when you guys were going through school.

Dan Krikorian: [00:17:07] I always felt like coaching was a place I wanted to go. I didn’t go into it right away. I was a business major at Chapman and went and worked for a mutual fund company.

I got a really great eight to five, well paying job right out of college. And I thought that was the path I should go and what I should do with my business degree. And, after about two weeks, I realized this wasn’t what I wanted to do. but I stuck it out for about a year and a half and went through that whole thing and it was really.

Good for me to do, to have that kind of a job. but at the same time, and I won’t spend too much time on this, but when I was getting ready to leave the mutual fund company, I’m also a musician. And so I was getting ready to put out another album and I was going to tour for about two months. And so I left the mutual fund company.

I went on tour all over the Western United States. And then when I got back, [00:18:00] I needed a way to make some more extra money. And so I hit up a buddy of mine who was the head coach at my Alma mater at Costa Mesa about. Coming back and helping out with basketball. once I was back from the tour and he said, well, instead of helping out, why don’t you be the JV coach?

And so I jumped at it, to have the chance to become the JV coach. And so that’s how I got into coaching. came back from the tour, jumped in, was the JV coach for a couple of years before eventually I moved up to be the varsity head coach and then eventually, came back to Chapman, but that’s how I got into it.

Mike Klinzing: [00:18:33] All right. So what do you remember about that first team that you stood in front of as the JV coach, trying to figure it out for the first time on the coaching side and not being a player?

Dan Krikorian: [00:18:41] Yeah, it’s quite a difference for sure, but I still have, I keep all the old practice notes from those times and I keep all practice notes that we do now, too.

And so sometimes I’ll look back at that first practice and I remember the feeling when I got done with practice of. [00:19:00] Having an overwhelming sense of this is what I’m supposed to do. Like, this is where I want to be. This is how I want to live my life. I want to be on the court with young people teaching the game.

And I was just so excited. I don’t remember if we got anything productive done in practice our team was not very good. You know, it could barely do the five man weave and I’m teaching jump stops. But I remember just feeling like this is the direction I wanted to go with my life. And it’s still, I go back to that moment a lot, even to this day.

Mike Klinzing: [00:19:32] Was there something that was harder than you thought when you first took the job?

Dan Krikorian: [00:19:36] Yeah, I think and everybody’s level is different that they start out at. I mean, so the demographic of my high school is somewhat of a lower socioeconomic. high school, these kids that I was coaching, some of them were playing basketball for their first or second year.

And so you have all these grand dreams have come in and drawn up and teach [00:20:00] them some great backdoor play. And it’s like, Hey, they just need to learn how to catch the ball, or these kids are coming from family lives that are difficult. And so before you even get to the floor, there’s things off the floor that are more difficult than you realize.

But you know, those things really came to the forefront. When I eventually took over as the head coach of how much you have to do off the floor, that’s more difficult than people understand.

Mike Klinzing: [00:20:22] Absolutely. We get it.  Patrick, where was your head at when you were in school? What were you thinking?

Patrick Carney: [00:20:26] Yeah, I mean, similar to high school, I knew I wanted to keep playing after. College. I mean especially after I had a pretty good freshman year and I just felt like, okay, three more years, I’m going to continue to develop. And like, I want to see how far I can continue to develop. And that would involve me playing past college.

you know, the one thing though, I, I will admit is like, I was not very like proactive as my senior year was coming to an end, as far as pursuing it. I mean, I knew I wanted to do it really badly. but yeah, I was, I guess, [00:21:00] a combination of determination and laziness, which is weird to say, but then I graduate and reality kind of hits you in the face and you kind of had like that Oh shit moment.

Mike Klinzing: [00:21:11] so the process, I mean, did you even have an idea of what it would have taken in order to make that dream a reality? Like had you talked to people who had done it in the past, did you have a contact or was it kind of like, you just thought it was going to happen. And then once you were done, you’re like, Ooh, it’s not just going to happen.

I got to go out and pursue it?.

Patrick Carney: [00:21:30] Yeah. unfortunately the latter. Yeah. that, yeah, I had no idea what the process entailed. so kind of good and bad. I graduated, but I still needed to finish all of my classes to get my degree. So it bought me a little window to kind of like, all right, get kind of get my head right.

And really now actively pursue it if I want to do it. And, so then that’s when Another college coach, who was in our league from Occidental, Brian, Newhall. He had sent players and at coach over there. So I reached out to him and then [00:22:00] he started to inform me of the process and the leagues that a player of my caliber and my resume, so to speak and can get into.

And from there, it was me just constantly emailing. I mean, I would send out hundreds of emails over the next six months as I kind of finished up my degree. And all it took was one for me to jump at it and I got that one club that said, okay, you can come out here. I mean, it wasn’t a very high level, for sure.

And I mean, there really was no pay. They were going to put me with a host family. I’d have to coach a couple of youth teams, but it would get my foot in the door and get me over here. Then me sitting on my couch in California. So I took it, so I obviously had to sit out the season after I graduated, just stayed in shape, kept working, stayed on these emails and then yeah.

Went over there and just again, started the grind of, okay, now I know what the process is required to really get to the level I want to. And [00:23:00] from there it was just, yeah. Constantly building.

Mike Klinzing: [00:23:04] What was that adjustment like going and living in a foreign country and try to adjust to all that on top of transitioning from being a college player, to being a professional player?

Patrick Carney: [00:23:14] Yeah, I mean, it was, for me, a huge adjustment. I mean, I went to college that was like 30 minutes down the road from my house. So I hadn’t even really lived out of state. let alone out of a country. So, I mean, yeah, coming here, not really knowing the language, I mean, not knowing any of the languages, and knowing no one.

So, I mean, in a way it just kept me singularly focused on basketball. Like just every day I was just trying to work out and trying to get into the gym. but, yeah, I mean, I would say it took at least a month for me to really like finally feel comfortable. Like it was just, yeah, kind of some lonely nights of just like self doubt.

Like what am I doing here? Especially, the level wasn’t very high. so [00:24:00] yeah. But I kind of always, like I said, just kept that single or focus knew what I wanted to do. And that was the only thing that kind of drove me. And when it was tough or when it was me questioning myself, I always just kind of fell back on, like  I’m out here to achieve a goal and I’m not going to just go home without giving it a shot.

So that kind of pushed me through, especially the culture shock.

Mike Klinzing: [00:24:23] Do you remember a time when you felt, maybe this is a weird way to ask it, but do you remember a time when you felt like you had figured it out that you felt like you had made it, that you were going to be able to make it a successful career at least for a few years?

Was there ever a point when you reached out or were you never to that point where you felt completely comfortable, that you had sort of proven yourself.

Patrick Carney: [00:24:47] To be honest, not really. I mean, I think it was part of my motivation too, that kind of, I never really was going to feel like that’d be me relaxing.

Maybe my [00:25:00] last season when I kind of knew, like I was back in, I got back into the second league of Germany here and I had a good year and I just knew. You know, for my future wise, like it was time for me to like move on and really start to pursue other things.

So maybe then I was more kind of could enjoy the process more and was more, yeah. Like, okay, I’m more satisfied. But up until that, no, I mean, I always kind of put pressure on myself to always I always kind of made it the goal. Like I wanted to keep playing as long as I felt I could keep getting better.

And so I never was really satisfied and content and I mean, I was never obviously playing in the Euro league or like first leagues either. So that was also another thing to keep striving for whether it was attainable or not, but it was enough to motivate me.  

Mike Klinzing: [00:25:51] All right. So I have two questions that I always like to ask anybody who played overseas.

The first one is kind of a more benign question. The second one is a fun one. So the first question is [00:26:00] what was your favorite city that you played in to the time you were there? And then why? What about the city did you really like.

Patrick Carney: [00:26:06] Okay. man, the tough thing is, and the leagues I played in we never really staying long in the cities.

The cities were nice. I mean, we played in Heidelberg in Germany, which was really nice, kind of up along the river. And the mountain, not like at the base of a little mountain, a college city. It’s really nice, but we would just drive there, play the game and then drive back.

That’s also very nice. I was lucky enough to that where I played I’m right by Dusseldorf Cologne and so those are really two nice cities that we would play some teams from there, but also I got to like on my free time they’re only 30 minutes or an hour away that I got to as well explore and, and see, but from a playing perspective, yeah, I was never, we were never truly in a city to like experience [00:27:00] it or other than just driving by it.

Mike Klinzing: [00:27:03] Gotcha. All right. So second question is, and I know everybody has one. What’s your craziest European basketball story. Cause I know you have. I know you have one. I don’t know what it is, but everybody’s got one.

Patrick Carney: [00:27:16] Oh man. I mean, I’d have to think what’s one. That’s appropriate to tell as well.

Mike Klinzing: [00:27:20] Yeah, yeah, exactly. That’s a standard answer to

Patrick Carney: [00:27:31] Let’s put it this way. If I could kind of put a generalizde experience has always come with my American teammates that come over here. And, when they experience, a new country for the first time and just, I mean, we had.

One guy who didn’t know how to make spaghetti. He was cooking the spaghetti and the water, and then he just put the pasta sauce in the spaghetti with the water and then was asking, how do you get the [00:28:00] water out of it? Yeah, this is his first time ever having to cook. so. I mean, some of the rookie Americans that came over here and seeing them experience always provided real entertainment for myself, who hadn’t been experienced over a while.

And then of course, for the Germans and the local players.

Mike Klinzing: [00:28:18] That’s hilarious. That’s good. That’s good stuff. That is good stuff. All right. So let’s, let’s fast forward and I want to make sure we give enough time to be able to talk Slappin’ Glass and kind of where you guys. Came up with the idea. Have you guys kind of stayed in touch over the course of time since you left school?

And just give me the Genesis of Slappin’ Glass, how you guys came together to put this thing to put together the concept.

Patrick Carney: [00:28:47] You’re always much better with this.

Dan Krikorian: [00:28:48] Okay. Well so Pat and I are really, really close friends. I mean so, we would stay in touch regardless. You know, when Pat [00:29:00] left for Germany ,Pat would still come back Christmas time and in the summers and I think Pat would probably agree of all of our friends that we played with in college. You know, everybody went into different careers afterwards, but Pat and I are basketball, junkies. I mean, obviously Pat is, he went and played for 12 years, professionally and now coaching over there. And then I went into coaching and have stayed in it.

And so anytime we would get together when he was back, I mean, We’d be the last two guys at dinner or over a couple of beers talking about basketball, talking about the European game. I’m always picking Pat’s brain on what are they running over in Germany? What’s the best stuff you’ve seen. And we just can’t get enough of it. And so fast forward 10 years after Pat’s getting closer to finishing playing we’ve always kind of talked about, Hey, should we, should we put something together? So we we could put some stuff out there. I think we could do [00:30:00] this or do that.

and I really Pat you might remember this, but last year, I was on tour for music over in Germany, Netherlands and Belgium for about a month. And Pat came to a couple of the shows that I had out in Germany, and we stayed up really late one night in Munich, kind of having a couple of half advisings over there.

And we started to kind of talk about the possibility of someday doing something like this together and come six, seven months later with the pandemic. And we both have a little bit more free time on our hands. We just decided to give it a shot. And we said, Hey here’s our ideas.

Here’s kind of our model of what we think would work and what we think people might like. And so, we just kind of started in on it. And with a focus on bout 60, 70% European basketball, but then also the college game, which obviously I’m a big part of, and then the NBA game as well, and just started to kind of [00:31:00] build from there.

And that was it, I mean, Pat, we started talking in about April, and then we didn’t really start in on it probably till early May and then getting closer to late June and July is when we really started to go with it.

Mike Klinzing: [00:31:15] So what was the mission? I mean, when you guys were sitting around thinking, Hey, we want to put this thing together.

What did you hope to, what did you hope to accomplish? Who are you hope? Who are you hoping to reach and what did you really want to do with this thing as you, as you started putting it together?

Patrick Carney: [00:31:30] Yeah, I think both me and Daniel when we started as, I mean, we realize there’s basketballs exploded just all over the world.

And so there’s so many great coaches and tactics that. You know, not isn’t always on TV, it’s not in the NBA, it’s not in ACC, PAC 12. And you know, that these are, there’s so many things that me and Dan have come across that, that interested us. And so it just started from a place of, we just want to kind of, I mean, we’re already watching the film, we’re already picking it up ourselves and talking [00:32:00] about it.

So we just kind of wanted to. I guess, share this conversation or share what, what interests us, at the, at the very core, like if Dan saw something he liked or that I would like it, that was enough. Like, okay, let’s put it together and let’s throw it out there. I mean, I think we felt there had to be other people having these same conversations or that also didn’t have, maybe didn’t have the access as far as the games in Europe that, that we do.

And we just wanted to, yeah, like. Share the game and just show stuff that interests us. And we started to get a really positive response and that’s kind of where it’s always grown from.

Dan Krikorian: [00:32:38] Yeah. And to follow up what Pat said. I think Pat and I will talk daily, about stuff was Slappin’ Glass in our content where we’re going and all those sorts of things, but then at the heart of it too, like we always come back to, we just enjoy talking about basketball and learning about the game and studying great coaches and players.

And so to second, what [00:33:00] Pat was saying about our initial mission and goal and things have changed obviously, as we’ve grown over the last three months, but what it always comes back to is let’s find the best stuff that we can, let’s put out the highest quality content of stuff that we’re interested in and that we want to learn about and find the people that also want to learn about that too.

Mike Klinzing: [00:33:21] So how immediate was the feedback when you guys started. Putting stuff out on social media and you started creating that, obviously you get into the podcast and you have some great guests that come on. And what’s the response from people. What are you hearing from the initial group of I’m assuming mostly coaches are the people that are finding you.

What kind of feedback were you getting out of it?

Dan Krikorian: [00:33:45] Pat? You want to take it? Okay. I’ll say it. Yeah. You know, the feedback has been great. That’s been a sort of a guiding light for us. You know, we feel like we’re hearing the right type of feedback from the right type of people. We talk about [00:34:00] our target demographic and the people we’re trying to reach.

And those people have been really positive. I mean like anything when you start it from scratch, like we did with this back in basically May. It takes a little bit to get it off the ground. But I remember, there was, a tweet that we put out in late June Pat that was on the Yeshiva University motion offense.

Yeah. And that kind of set us off in a direction that we weren’t we hadn’t gotten to yet it got. Tons and tons of retweets and, and all of a sudden, all these new followers started coming to us, blah, blah, blah. And it was around that time that we said, okay, here’s, something that works.

Here’s where people are interested in. And then you could kind of see the, the wheels starting to turn. And the feedback from coaches has always been positive. And I think there that that’s helped us a lot to kind of know, okay, what we’re putting out is valuable [00:35:00] to them, that they can take back to their teams.

Mike Klinzing: [00:35:02] So, how was that tweet different from what you guys were doing prior to that? What shifted or how was that particular clip or that particular thing that you put out? How was that different than what you kind of had in mind before ?

Dan Krikorian: [00:35:15] I don’t know if there was necessarily anything hugely different as far as how we put the clip together.

It just took off like crazy on Twitter.

Mike Klinzing: [00:35:27] Just the idea of what it was.

Dan Krikorian: [00:35:29] Yeah, So I think the thing that we put out was Yeshiva University was one of the best teams in division three basketball last year, and will be this year as well. And they run an offense. It’s a purely five out.

Motion offense where they set zero on ball screens. And they’re just fantastic. They’re really fun to watch. So the clip was just basically showing a minute and a half worth of their cuts and their backdoors and all this. And I think coaches, you see that and it caught on, and then you know, that that community started to share it.

And so that’s what helped.

[00:36:00] Patrick Carney: [00:36:00] Yeah. I mean, I think too, like Dan said, the clip itself wasn’t anything different, but obviously the response was vastly different and it kind of sent us down the rabbit hole of like, okay, well, let’s kind of stick with this and let’s go further into their offense and breaking it down.

And as we kinda kept looking at film, then that’s when we reached out to their coach and you know, said, Hey, we we’d love to talk to you too. So. I think that clip kind of was like the first domino that led us to like, okay, let’s kind of explore further and kind of see what we can pursue with this and led to our evolution.

Mike Klinzing: [00:36:39] Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. I think it’s interesting when you, I mean, you guys obviously know it. I know it too, from what we’ve been able to do and you put stuff out there and some things, some things are hit, some things that you think are going to be really great. End up, not maybe necessarily getting as much attention as you thought they were going to.

And so it’s, it’s kind of a [00:37:00] learning process, as you said of going through and say, let’s try this. And then if you find something that works, you kind of go into it a little bit deeper and try to keep, keep digging and keep making it work. So it sounds like from, from that you guys said, okay, here’s something, here’s something interesting.

Here’s a set we found. That’s interesting. Here’s the defensive covers that we found this. Interesting. And then. When those things hit and have you guys take a deeper dive, is that kind of the process that you’re at now, or just explain your process of how do you sort of curate the things that you’re putting out there all the time?

Where do you go to find that stuff? And then how do you determine what it is that you’re going to put out for people to consume?

Dan Krikorian: [00:37:36] Go ahead, Pat. You can take that one first.

Patrick Carney: [00:37:38] Yeah. I mean, definitely now, as we’ve obviously been able to have podcasts and have a little bit more dialogue with coaches that obviously.

We’ll lead us down some different directions or to see this coach, like if we had coach Mike Taylor on of the Polish team and he was talking about we’ll vote and his, peel switching. So [00:38:00] that kind of then leads us down. Okay. Well, what’s this peel switching and so that obviously has been.

One way we’ve kind of pursued other topics, so to speak, but also me and Dan continue to watch film and just, we’ve gotten better with more reps. And so now we, Hey we’re really like this algorithm we like the new coach there and what they’re running, so yeah. Let’s kind of watch their pre-season and kind of let’s do a whole breakdown of what their Darren are, the same thing with Fenerbahce.

So as we just continue to watch film then stuff that catches our eye, I think we have a better eye now, too for, watching film. And then we’re still pursuing stuff that we like, but as well as stuff that we’ve kind of learned from others or come across in conversations with other coaches,

Dan Krikorian: [00:38:46] Yeah, I think so.Go ahead.

Mike Klinzing: [00:38:49] You’re good. I’ll follow up because I was going to kind of take it another direction. So you follow up with Patrick’s point and then I’ll jump in and ask about what Pat was saying too

Dan Krikorian: [00:38:54]. As, [00:39:00] as we’ve grown from, from may till now, I mean, we’ve have a lot more data on what people like or what, what works, what doesn’t work, or the feedback, you know?

So we’ve got a newsletter now, a podcast now, obviously the daily Twitter stuff and the deeper dive YouTube stuff. We’ve been very, we’ve really done a lot of thinking on everything we put out. Like we don’t, we don’t ever want to just put out something just to try to get some Twitter clicks.

Like we really spend time on Twitter, one tweet that we put out. You know, might take an hour or two for us to put together the clip. Like we want it to be always very valuable information that we pass on to coaches. And like Pat said to the podcast has been great because it opens up another form of dialogue.

Like Mike, it’s such a great thing.

Mike Klinzing: [00:39:53] Awesome. Yeah. It’s amazing. Just how the personal connection that I think people feel when they tune in and they [00:40:00] hear you. It’s, it’s kind of a strange thing because I always say that before we started ours, I did. I listened a lot to the hardwood hustle and Alan Stein was on there with Adam Bradley.

And then now TJ is on there with Adam, but I would listen to it with my son in the car on our way to like a few games. And then Aaron ended up, I got connected to him through just a series of events and he ended up being the first guest on our show and I felt like I knew him because I had listened to.

150 episodes of him talking about his kids and then talking about the various things that he did. And then I got to sit in front of them and talk to them and I’m like, I feel like I know this guy and yet I had never met him before. And I think it’s a really, it’s a really intimate platform because you’re opening yourself up for again.

However long, the episode is an hour 45 minutes, an hour and a half, whatever. And people really get kind of a window into who you are and to get to know you. And then they hear like, They have that personal connection. And I think it’s a really, [00:41:00] it’s a really great way. It’s a great medium to be able to build a following and kind of go deeper on some of the things that you guys are sharing for sure.

Dan Krikorian: [00:41:09] Yeah. A hundred percent, a hundred percent. I mean, it’s part of, we kind of we talk about like kind of content buckets or our kind of growth strategy of putting content out and the podcast is a very big portion of it, but the podcast is great. Cause like you mentioned, it leads us down paths that we might’ve not thought about.

And like Pat said some, some guests will mention some concept and then all of a sudden we’re spending four or five hours looking it up to, to learn more about it. So it’s been great for us too.

Mike Klinzing: [00:41:40] So what are some things just let you guys are seeing maybe some trends. That when you guys are watching film, I know you already mentioned the five hour, no screens.

What are some other things that you guys are seeing that coaches who are listening might want to take a peak at some new concepts and things that they could possibly add to their systems?

[00:42:00] Patrick Carney: [00:42:01] Oh, I’ll start Dan. for me, I mean, I’m really enamored with the next defense that you’ll see clubs like over Doro and Valencia run.

I mean, obviously the pick and roll is become such a huge part of the game. So finding ways to, to disturb the offense and give them new looks and this next defense, I mean, I can’t honestly watch enough of it at this moment, but then on the other side of the ball is. Defenses are running this next defense and helping with the strong side defender.

You know, the offenses are continuing to adjust and especially the off ball movement around the pick and roll is, is something that I think clubs in Europe are really doing well with weather five cuts, baseline cuts, or now we’re seeing setting flare screens from the baseline and drifting into the corners so.

This is what really enjoys me every time I’m looking for how teams are defending and, but also then how the is, is, are continuing to evolve and counter the [00:43:00] defensive moves. but yeah, so, this is yeah, the, the off-ball movement in Europe and obviously to like the false motion, false action, again, to, to disrupt the defense and take them out of their base coverage and disrupt the three men shell behind the pick and roll.

Is yeah. Stuff that I’m always kind of keeping an eye out and that I think is so fascinating in the game today.

Dan Krikorian: [00:43:25] Pat just mentioned so many great things. So I would second all of those things. I think that, especially the European game. They do such a great job of creating space in creative ways for their best players to make plays.

And so whether it’s 45 cuts, like Pat mentioned backside flares or all this false motion, it’s just so hard to guard. So it’s fun to watch. And so those are things that really interests me on the offensive side. defensively. I think that. Defenses are getting more and more sophisticated and you see it in Europe, Pat [00:44:00] mentioned the next defense, but then things like on a post catch defenses are jumping into a two-three zone.

And we’re looking into that more right now. just all these like, hybrids of junk defenses as well at the NBA level is now trickling down towards, instead of it just being straight, man to man all the time or straight zone it’s these combos that teams are doing that I think is really inventive and is sort of a response to how much the pick and roll game game has grown.

And so its teams are figuring out how to combat that. So that’s super interesting to me. And then I always joke about this with Pat, but one of my favorite actions for offenses is the dribble hand-off and I’m working on a, what will eventually be a very long. Video edit on all the different dribble hand-off actions.

Cause I just think it’s such a unique, it’s such a great action to help set up your offense. And so someday I’ll release that.

Patrick Carney: [00:44:56] it will be as masterpiece.

Mike Klinzing: [00:45:08] It is amazing to me that the game and how much it has changed over the last 30 years. Clearly when you, even in the last five years, just how it’s accelerated as you guys have settled with the screen and roll, which you look back in time and teams did it, but certainly not to the level where every possession it becomes.

Critically important to most of the offenses that you see at every level at this point. And then you talk it and flip it to the other side. And now the defense has to figure out how do we counter that? And it’s just a constant evolution of the game. And when you see, and I think you guys make a great point and with what you’re doing is in a lot of us, especially here in the United States, clearly.

Now, you’re watching the power five conferences. If you’re watching college basketball or you’re watching the NBA. And yet there’s so many innovative coaches all [00:46:00] over the world. And at every level that the fact that you guys were able to highlight some of those guys and some of those coaches that are doing unique and innovative things.

To me, that’s something that’s very, very interesting because a lot of people aren’t willing to kind of go down and dive that deep into some of the things that you guys are. And I think that’s just providing a lot of value. Two coaches who I’m sure again, you’re hearing from them that, Hey, it’s great that you’re highlighting some of these coaches that are doing these unique things in places that most of us wouldn’t ordinarily find them.

Dan Krikorian: [00:46:31] Thank you.

Patrick Carney: [00:46:32] Yeah, I appreciate it. That’s a hundred percent. That’s what we’re trying. That’s our goal.

Mike Klinzing: [00:46:38] All right. So I am coming up against my time with it. So I want to give you guys a chance to talk a little bit about where you see. Slappin’ Glass going, what do you look? What is it going to look like a year from now?

And obviously I know you can’t tell the future, but just kind of, what are you guys thinking based on what you’ve accomplished to this point, and then looking forward, what do you [00:47:00] see and sort of the next goal or the evolution of Slappin’ Glass,

Dan Krikorian: [00:47:06] Pat? You want me to take it down? Well, First of all before we, as we run up on time here, Mike, I want to say thanks so much for having us on.

I also want to say thanks because when I was Googling to prepare for the hoop heads stuff, I also accidentally wrote in hop heads. And that brought me to, an IPA beer drinking club I looked into. So I appreciate you leading me down that rabbit hole this morning,

Mike Klinzing: [00:47:34] Having a basketball pod. Yeah.

Dan Krikorian: [00:47:37] Yeah.

So big. Thanks for that. you guys, should, you guys should get together. I think you could ask them, but. As far as the vision and the future of Slappin’ Glass. I mean Pat and I talk daily about kind of our one month goals and our end of the year goals and where we are a year from now, I think that it starts with continuing to [00:48:00] add value to coaches in the way that we want to.

And the podcast is a way that we’ll continue to grow it through great conversations with coaches. And I think as we continue to build out our YouTube, Twitter, in our newsletter, just ways that we can connect with the coaches, I think we’ve made  a distinction early on that we didn’t want to just be two guys putting out videos and asking for money from people from videos.

We wanted to do something that was more valuable and creating valuable content that had a community around it. And so we’ve always tried to have that community feel with what we do and to share and to make it where coaches come back. Cause they, they know we’re going to provide valuable material, but it’s not just a one-off transaction of here’s a video, good luck.

It’s more of a continuing dialogue. And so that’s what we’re hoping to continue to build, through all those different platforms.

Mike Klinzing: [00:48:55] Awesome. Awesome. So before we get out, I want to give you guys a chance to [00:49:00] share where people can find you give us all the social media channels, all the places that people can figure out and find out what you’re doing.

And then I’ll jump back in and wrap things up.

Dan Krikorian: [00:49:10] So for Twitter, you can find us @SlappinGlass. So no G in the slapping, so Slappin’ Glass, you can also find us on YouTube and then our newsletter comes out Sunday mornings, and you can find that SlappinGlass.substack.com and, that comes out every Sunday.

Mike Klinzing: [00:49:29] All right. Last question. The name how’d you guys come up with it?

Patrick Carney: [00:49:33] I think it was Dan. You were just looking for available names that you know, were free. and it wasn’t and you came across, it was slapping backboard, right?

Dan Krikorian: [00:49:42] Yeah. If you listened to our podcast, it opens up with the two of us talking and that’s an actual clip of us coming up with the name where I mentioned to Pat, Hey, what about like slapping Blackboard is available and Pat said Slappin’ Glass.

And I just started laughing. We both started laughing. We thought this is [00:50:00] it. We’re going with slappin’ glass. Yeah, it

Patrick Carney: [00:50:02] made too much, too much sense coming from yeah. Two, six foot white boys who could never dunk. So slappin the slappin the glass after layups was kind of the highlight of our high school and college career.

Mike Klinzing: [00:50:13] I say that to people all the time when I was I related to this story numerous times, but when I was in elementary school and I used to go to my local high schools games, the one thing that I always dreamed about, cause I would watch the players, dude is coming out for warmups and slapping the glass.

Mike Klinzing: [00:50:28] No, no. During layup lines, I’m like, Oh, someday I want to run out to the pep band and hear the music and be able to slap the glass out that I was able to do that. I was never able to throw it on any dunks, but I was able to get out and slap the glass. I’m right there with you guys.

Dan Krikorian: [00:50:41] Thank you.

Mike Klinzing: [00:50:44] Absolute pleasure having you guys on, I really appreciate you taking the time out of your schedule to join us from your various locations around the world and to everyone out there.

Thanks for listening. And we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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