LIONEL GARRETT – WILBERFORCE UNIVERSITY WOMEN’S ASSISTANT COACH, FOUNDER OF REBOUND DR. & FORMER HARLEM GLOBETROTTER – EPISODE 342

Lionel Garrett is currently an assistant basketball coach for the women’s team at Wilberforce University in Ohio. Garrett was an NBA Draft pick of the San Diego Clippers, an International Player, and a Harlem Globetrotters Star. Lionel has over 30 years of basketball coaching experience with the NCAA, CBA, WBA, ABA, and FIBA. He is also a NCAA record setting rebounder averaging 16 reboundss per game during his career at Southern University.

Garrett has coached internationally in Saudi Arabia, Italy, & Mexico and also spent time coaching in the CBA. A High School and College Hall of Famer, Garrett has been named Coach of the Year and been awarded GM of the year honors twice during his coaching career. After being drafted and signed with the NBA San Diego Clippers, Lionel became the designated rebounder of the Hall of Fame Harlem Globetrotters. He later continued his basketball career playing in Spain and the CBA.

Garret is also the owner and head coach of Rebound Dr, an Ohio based Skill Development Company.

Don’t miss our Hoop Heads Pod Webinar Series with some of the top minds in the game across all levels, from grassroots to the NBA. If you’re focused on improving your coaching and your team, we’ve got you covered! Visit hoopheadspod.com/webinars to get registered. Make sure you check out our new Hoop Heads Pod Network of shows including Thrive with Trevor Huffman , Beyond the Ball, The CoachMays.com Podcast and Cavaliers Central with Justin Matcham, our first podcast dedicated to covering the ins and outs of an NBA team. We’re looking for more NBA podcasters interested in hosting their own show centered on a particular team. Reach out to me at mike@hoopheadspod.com if you’re interested in learning more and bringing your talent to our network.

You’re going to love this episode with the Rebound Dr., Lionel Garrett, assistant women’s coach at Wilberforce University and a former Harlem Globetrotter.

What We Discuss with Lionel Garrett

How he discovered the game in 7th grade and realized he could really jump high
Growing in with his father in the Air Force and moving to Dayton, Ohio before 10th grade
His goal to make all-city as high schooler in Dayton
Some of his experiences on the playgrounds in Dayton
Remembering his high school teammates
Learning from UD legend and former NBA player Johnny Davis
Attending Southern University with his friends Robert Patterson & Frankie Sanders
Respect and Black Lives Matter
Why trust is so important as a coach and as a person
Why rebounding became his most valuable skill
8 players from his college team being drafted by the NBA
Getting drafted by the San Diego Clippers
Getting cut by the Clippers and Gene Shue when he least expected it
Joining the Harlem Globetrotters and his experiences traveling the world
Becoming friends with Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones
Shaving Curly Neal’s head when he was a Globetrotter
Being remembered as a player by people you didn’t even know
Mentoring former NBA player Jamario Moon
Being a student in the art of rebounding
His role as an assistant coach for the women’s team at Wilberforce University in Ohio
How coaching women has made him a better player development coach
His Rebound Dr. Skill Development Business

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THANKS, LIONEL GARRETT

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TRANSCRIPT FOR LIONEL GARRETT – WILBERFORCE UNIVERSITY WOMEN’S ASSISTANT COACH, FOUNDER OF REBOUND DR., FORMER HARLEM GLOBETROTTER – EPISODE 342

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here with my co-host, Jason Sunkle and tonight we are very pleased to be able to welcome to the podcast from Wilberforce University and Rebound Dr. Lionel Garrett Lionel. Welcome to the hoop heads podcast.

Lionel Garrett: [00:00:15] Mike, I’m really privileged to be here. I really appreciate you inviting me.

Mike Klinzing: [00:00:20] We are very excited to be able to have you on you have such a diverse background in the game, the things that you were able to accomplish and do as a player and then as you moved on into your coaching career and just having an impact on young people, I’m so excited to be able to dive into all those things with you. Let’s start by going back in time to when you were a kid. And tell us a little bit about how you got into the game of basketball when you were younger.

Lionel Garrett: [00:00:45] You know, that’s a good question. I started playing basketball when I was in the seventh grade and in the playground at school during recess. Some kids over there playing, so I said, well, let me go over there and see what [00:01:00] that is. I didn’t really know a whole lot, but what I quickly discovered is I could jump real high.

Mike Klinzing: [00:01:06] I never discovered that Lionel. I kept discovering I couldn’t jump.

Lionel Garrett: [00:01:11] It’s how I discovered that though. you know, I’m going up for a rebound, of course. And, and I come down on my back and knocks the wind out of me, like really bad. It takes several minutes for me to catch my breath, you know, and I never forgot that I got up, I caught my breath. I kept playing and I’ve in love with the game ever since then.

That’s what started me playing basketball.

So as time progressed, and I was a little taller than the other kids, the coaches became pretty interested in me because I was already a natural athlete and I was growing, pretty tall. [00:02:00] And so I continued, I grew up in California and I was at Golden West middle school.

And, and so I made the eighth grade team and then I went on to high school. And maybe the ninth grade team, it was really outstanding. Everything just started happening too fast for me, as far as learning how to play, played at Vanden High School in Fairfield, California, where I was growing up, my father was in the Air Force.

And so that caused us to move around a lot. at the end of my ninth grade and high school, he was stationed there. And so we moved here to Dayton and going into the 10th grade and that’s when things really started moving fast for me. As far as my love and my progress in basketball, which really happened pretty fast as a player.

So while I was growing up in California, I used to read about players who made all city and you know, and all of these different things in New York City Rucker tournament. And. You know, I looked up to that type of stuff. And [00:03:00] so when I moved here to Dayton, I had a goal I wanted to make all city, so move into 10th grade and I’m able to play varsity, but I don’t make all city.

We go into the next season, my 11th grade season, and I do make all-city. I make this second team. So I’m progressing really quick and the reason I’m progressing is because I’m determined. I stayed, we didn’t have player development the way we have did they? My player development was the park.

And me and my friends, we play all night just working on our games, working on our games. so we were our own player development, actually that led me to my senior year. And I made all-city first team, all-city and all everything. So I was pretty much on my way. I decided after my sophomore year that I love this game. I’m going to keep on playing.

Mike Klinzing: [00:03:51] Did you play other sports besides basketball when you were growing up?

Lionel Garrett: [00:03:53] In the ninth grade, I tried football and also, excuse me, also long jumped. but I just, I [00:04:00] didn’t complete either one because I just wanted to spend all of my time practicing and trying to become a better basketball player.

Mike Klinzing: [00:04:09] All right. Talk to me a little bit about the importance of playground basketball in your life and I’m going to put a word in your mouth. I’m assuming you’re going to back it up. Maybe you won’t, but how sad are you about the demise of outdoor playground basketball as a whole around the country? There are obviously still some pockets where people are playing outdoors, but it’s nothing like I’m sure when you were a kid or when I was a kid, that’s the way we grew up was playing on the playground outdoors.

And nowadays. Kids, especially kids who were at the top level of high school basketball. Those kids are flying around the country and playing and beautiful cars and doing all these things, but they’re not getting the education that you and I got out on the playground. So just talk a little bit about experiences on the playground and just how sad you are to see it having sort of [00:05:00] disappeared.

Lionel Garrett: [00:05:01] Right. well, I don’t know if I feel sad about that because I know that things change. and, and I kind of see how things change with the generations, at this time and completely changed everything. They didn’t have AAU when I was coming up. So there was not different teams that I could apply for to play with that.

Wasn’t the dominant thing, as it is now, the playground became the place where you had to prove yourself and, and every, and all of the best talents, you know, we’re at the best playgrounds and that’s where you want it to be. And I felt, I knew at that time that I had to play against the best talent. that I could find in the city in order to improve and, and enjoy it, really enjoy it again.

So the playground was like the grind, you know, it, in essence was everything that’s happening now as if it was outside the playground, you know, you, [00:06:00] you know, that’s where I got my player development. That’s where I got my toughness. You know, because I’ve been in some, some playground situations where, you know, somebody’s driving by and bullets are flying, tapping off the back board, you know, they’re trying to run in and cover and, you know, add to the most beautiful.

Playgrounds is shady trees. And that’s what I did always look forward to kind of really nice, beautiful ones and playing against great. here, one of the all time great players of university of Dayton was Donald Smith. And, he’s since passed away, but, you know, he kind of put me on his primary means he was still in high school when I met him here in Dayton and he took me to all of the main playgrounds, so I kind of just cut my teeth and grew up in the playground. and then of course we had to branch into playing inside gyms.

[00:07:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:07:02] The balance when you were, let’s say from grade 10 to grade 12, what was the balance in the summertime of time that you spent. Playing on the playgrounds, trying to get better that way versus the amount of time you put in by yourself at a court trying to get better. How, how would you maybe split those percentages?

Lionel Garrett: [00:07:24] Yeah. you know, thinking back on that, there was actually a basket court just right up the street from where I live. And so, you know, in the summertime every morning I had a routine, so yeah, I would go with my basketball up to the playground and I will be on a hoop by myself and I would probably spend about four or five hours out there, you know, come back in, drink some milk, get a sandwich, you know, and then I get with my friends and then we start a little tour. We would go around to all the playgrounds. You know, to see where the, where the games are, [00:08:00] you know, and that would take me into the ease of time.

So, but to answer your question, I probably spent half of my time, you know, just kind of by myself on the court, and then in the evening time. But when we were finished playing the programs that everybody’s gone home, a really good friend of mine and myself who will stay out almost half the night, we played one on one to a hundred.

You know, and that was just the routine, not knowing what we were doing, but that was just a routine. And so that’s how I enjoyed the playground and how the playground helped me. And, I think that at that time I became. And that’s where I would work. I would work on a specific thing.

Mike Klinzing: [00:08:45] I was going to ask him. That was my follow up question is when you said not knowing what you’re doing, when you were working by yourself, how did you come up with, or how did you figure out, or how did you think about what you wanted to do? I’ll give you, I’ll give you an [00:09:00] example from my own life. So when I was going through, from the time I was in high school, all the way through college, I pretty much.

I had two workouts. I had one workout that I would do by myself, where I would go through the same series of shots, the same scene moves. And I did that for probably seven years. And then I had another workout that I would do if I could get somebody who was willing to either rebound for me or wanted to share it with me.

So I had those two workouts. And now you think about as a player development coach. You know resources that are out there, the things that you can do from film study, just to all just copying off what other people are doing, the resources that are available to players and coaches today compared to when you were a kid or I was a kid just weren’t there.

So how’d you figure out what to do or what were you doing while you were on the court by yourself?

Lionel Garrett: [00:09:48] Right. You know, I just had an instinct to really work on my ball, handling a lot because I was growing fast. And, and I didn’t want to limit myself to just it this time I didn’t want to limit, [00:10:00] or I should say at that time, I did not want to limit myself to just having to play with my back to the basket because I was pretty agile, as a player.

So I would work on my ball, handling a lot and I will work on my shooting a lot. And I’ll work on my rebound a lot. And so as far as how creative I get new things that I created for myself, I’ll give you an example, in the rebound department, I was standing at about the free throw line area with my back to the basket and bounce it real hard, where it hits the bag board and then turn and pursue it.

You know, go as high as I can, you know, catch it and come down and then power dribble to half court. I don’t know where I got that from, but it ended up being valuable for me.

Mike Klinzing: [00:10:48] Absolutely. That necessity is the mother of invention. That’s very cool. Very cool. As a high school player, what was one of your favorite memories from the time when you played high school basketball?

Lionel Garrett: [00:11:06] Well, you know, when I was in high school, I average like 19 points in my senior year, like 19 points and 19 rebounds per day. And my team at that time, we fell just short of becoming a city championship team. In fact, The first year I had enough, they, they want it all. So, you know, as far as winning championships, I had no great memories, but I had great teammates that really dominate my memories.

And one of the greatest players that I look up to, where he is now, dr. Archie Mays, it was Archie Mays for, he was really a good player. He was super smart, you know, in his classes. And, and, and that influenced me a lot. and, and his basketball game was just so disciplined and so intelligent, and that influenced me a lot and so my memories of my [00:12:00] high school memories are actually Archie man in wanting to perform my campaign that carried me through college because he was a pro at that time, but as far as the games and we had some pretty outstanding Dayton high school basketball then, and now, was very competitive in our games against, the school that used to be called Colonel White a school down the street from our school was a rival game.

And just, you know, just crazy, you know, the leading score from that team at that time was my best friend at this time. And we were at different schools. Yeah, it was just a lot of great players. as I mentioned, I didn’t really grow up in Dayton, so I was kinda like the new guy here. And how do you grow up through the different programs that they might’ve had for the kids?

You kind of knew, were going to grow up of a surefire player? You know, I was [00:13:00] just a guy trying to get in where I fit in.

Mike Klinzing: [00:13:04] So as you go through your high school career in Dayton, at what point do you start to feel like you’re going to have an opportunity to play beyond high school and maybe get an opportunity to play college basketball.

When did that thought first strike you? Was it always something that was on your mind? Just talk to me a little bit about your process.

Lionel Garrett: [00:13:23] Well, you know, I mentioned a little earlier that in the 10th grade, when I moved here, I started setting goals and it was in the 10th grade that my goal, you know, I want to make all city, I want to get a basketball scholarship. So it was a go and, and, and so it became, but I realized in my junior year that it was a reality that I could achieve these goals.

and, and so I just kept, you know, with the work, I stayed focused on my goals. That was my, my main focus was. Always to remain focused and I’ve [00:14:00] always been that way. I just do some of that other older players, I would play with older players because I was wanting to be around the best. you know, for example, I would, when I was at that age, be great.

I will go up to the University of Dayton and rebound for Johnny Davis. You know, when you rebound for him, you know, he would be getting his shots off and I rebound the message I’m working on my rebounding and, you know, outlet it back to him. I’ve always been focused, but just the way that those guys work and John Davis, again, some of the things he impressed upon me was when he was a guy, he come to the gym and.

His shirt would be tucked in. He would always be neat, you know, presentable. And so that’s how I became, you know, because I liked that and I liked what he was doing. You know, my junior year that I received, [00:15:00] I felt like I had a chance because I started getting letters, you know, started getting letters from schools, started getting on people’s radar.

You know, and then of course in my senior year, it kind of started blowing up a little bit.

Mike Klinzing: [00:15:15] Do you remember who your first letter was from?

Lionel Garrett: [00:15:19] Oh, wow. no, I don’t think I remember who the first one. I remember when I started getting shot. When I got letters from Princeton and Yale, I’m like, wait a minute.

Mike Klinzing: [00:15:33] Alright, well, Hey, no, stop for a second. So if you’re getting letters from Princeton and Yale, and you may doubt you may be downplaying this, but I gotta believe that. You were at least a pretty good student. If you’re getting letters from Princeton & Yale.

Lionel Garrett: [00:15:45] That’s why it was surprising for me. you know, no, I wasn’t the best student coming up, I mean I was eligible.

I think that might’ve been [00:16:00] part due to, you know, moving and how. you know, the hours and everything are the courses that I took as a freshman grown up in California, didn’t come into Dayton and everything was just so different. And it actually kind of, as far as my books were, cause it kind of set me back just a little bit, but you know, I, I built myself up wrong, you know, more than able to, you know, receive a division one scholarship, which is what I ultimately did.

But as far as, you know, Those tools that wasn’t that type of a student, I guess they thought I was that type of a basketball player. And who knows if I would have accepted a scholarship to one of those schools, I probably would have been that type of student.

Mike Klinzing: [00:16:40] So describe the process of how you went about making your decision, how you ended up going to Southern university.

Just tell us a little bit about your thought process and what that recruiting was like for you.

Lionel Garrett: [00:16:50] Yeah, it was, it was pretty great. it kind of started just to kind of give you the whole story of how [00:17:00] that, how Southern University happened is that, the coach Paul Stewart, just a brilliant man.

You know, he happened to be at my high school and and I saw him kind of, I was in my locker. I saw him walking through the halls with the, the guidance counselor and the principal and, and they in, and as it turns out, cause he passed me. He was wondering who was. Who was he? and they say, well, that’s fine.

No care at this time. Now Coach Stewart was actually didn’t me at my high school. He was going. To Colonel White high school, which is down the street from my high school to see a phenomenal player to talk to him. And Robert Patterson averaged 35 points, a game and ice school, but he was in the wrong gym, I’m sorry.

Wrong school. And so of course the principal and guidance counselor got me out of class, sit down and talk. It goes to, you know, and we had a good conversation. [00:18:00] And, I mentioned to him in that conversation, Frankie Sanders was playing in the state championship down in Columbus the next night.

So I mentioned that to him. And so he ended up going there, you know, so, so he invited me to come and visit the school and, you know, we planned that out in the meantime, Frankie Sanders. And I, and I don’t know if you’re familiar with Frankie, but he’s probably one of the greatest in Dayton history andwe were visiting ended up at the airport, visible onto the same schools, including Southern.

And so Coach was such a brilliant, precise. his recruiting job was so precise with me. The, you know, from the moment that we met, you know, he was totally prepared. He was able to talk to me about the school and show me this school. And then I realized that it was. At historically black college university.

And I didn’t know so much about black schools, then I grew up in California. They [00:19:00] weren’t yeah. Out there. And, you know, as I moved to Ohio, there are not many here, you know, so I wasn’t really familiar with that at all. Yeah, but I was like, but it looks beautiful. And you know, so that was an education for me, in itself.

And so when we went, so we went through the process and, we, and I say we for a reason, because it was, it was three of us. It was, Robert Patterson and Colonel white, who we originally. You know, came into the area to see myself and Frankie Sanders. So we go down there and, and coastal just has everything so nicely, nothing, nothing illegal, just everything straight.

A reality. And you know, you have a party set up for all these things, had a banquet set up, forth, all these things. So in the meantime I was in school, I was recruited by University of Dayton. I interested in, or it was Michigan State had interest in [00:20:00] me and really wanted me to go to junior college.

At that time they had the number one junior college program in the nation, you know, and, and then, and then, today, and Michigan, we had a couple conversations, but it just kind of faded way, but you know, the, the, the media people here and everybody here, and that time felt like. The three of us will be a prayer to end up at a major division one school, just like we figured, but I go down to Southern university and it’s just beautiful, beautiful campus.

it’s in the swag. in fact it just sweats a dead time. and. Upgraded to NCAA division one. However, my freshman year, the entire whack Southwest athletic conference was on probation. So we were not eligible for a post-season play until after I left, but we still were division one. You know, we, so we turned into [00:21:00] an NCAA division one school.

We had a brand new arena, it was built that we opened up to this beautiful to this day. And, you know, I mean, even girls were really pretty,

just be honest with you. And, and I decided on the flight back, that, I think I’m going to go to solving, you know, and so Frankie did, he was like, well, we’ve been visiting these schools together. So if you go, I’m gone. And of course, Robert Patterson’s saying, well, y’all, can’t leave me out. I’m going to go as well.

So when that hits the media, they think that we have lost our minds.

What is this place? You know? And, but I can say this just to speed it up to this day. I mean, as recently as this week, there’s been a lot of conversation about the teams that we played on. We, we went down there, we may history, you know, and, you know, we were drafted and, and every one of our teammates got drafted to the [00:22:00] NBA.

We did not get a Barre, you know, doing that. And we became, you know, we went down and it turned out to be just an unbelievable experience. Very different. but that’s how I got the father. No, you know, I, I fell in love with it.

Jason Sunkle: I want to jump in real quick. I want your take on, you’re talking about recently though, the whole maker maker, he’s going to, what’s going. So do you think, do you think this is gonna, you know, maybe turn the tide on some of these things where players start looking at other colleges instead of Duke, Kansas and look at these historically black colleges? Or like what, what’s your take?

Lionel Garrett: [00:22:38] Yeah. well, I don’t mean to be biased, but I, not only, you know, that I attended HBCU, now coasted three.

all of my college culture has been and not by design. Just. The way it unfolded for me. So I love my HBCU and I’m happy. the big [00:23:00] guy decided, you know, that a five star player decided to attend, an HBCU. And I think it is going to kind of trend. You’re gonna see more players doing that and. I think it’s just the environment that we’re living in right now.

and yeah, you know, Derek and a certain kind of pride, about growth and development and the need. We have historically black colleges universities. So some of these, young guys who are. Considering a HBC use is because they want to help. I know that if a few, if a couple of really five star, the players are playing on Hampton, for example, they’re going to get TV rights.

They’re going to generate revenue for the school and that’s going to help the school, build his profile and, and create more revenue for itself. And I think that those are the kind of off to some of these young men are having. So, you [00:24:00] know, I don’t know if it was going to blow up, but it definitely is going to be a trend it’s going to be happening right now.

Mike Klinzing: [00:24:08] Well, I think it’s one thing that if you went back 15 or 20 years ago, I don’t think that anybody would have foreseen that a player of that caliber would attend a historically black college. It just wasn’t something. that was on the radar. And so the fact that that is happening, I think it speaks to, again, kind of where we are as a country right now, and all the things that are going on.

I think this is probably, I want to interrupt our college talk and we’ll, I’m going to come back to it. But I think this is a great time to ask you about. What’s going on in our country right now in the moment and what you can do or what coaches can do to impact

and have discussions with the young people that are underneath their charge.

What are some things that maybe you’re in [00:25:00] conversations that you’re having with the young people that you’re in contact with in terms of. Giving them things that they can do. Can they take action to be able to support the black lives matter movement, to be able to support some of the things that are going on in our country to make meaningful change? Because I think that’s one of the things that Jason and I have talked about it ourselves. We’ve talked about it with several guests on the show and we’re trying to figure out what or things that can actually be done. What are actions that people can take? What are you talking to your players about?

Lionel Garrett: [00:25:38] You know, my conversation never really changed because of, you know, black lives matter as far as what I talked to about my players, because it’s always the same.

And, and, and, and the main thing that I really try to get these young men and young women, to understand is respect. How to respect yourself and respect others, you [00:26:00] know, so that’s, that’s my basis and that’s, you know, respect, not just on the basketball court, but respect your teachers, respect your parents, respect your friends, treat people the way that you will want to be treated.

I’ll try to talk to him about the way how I grew up and, you know, I was a yes, sir. Yes. Ma’am kind of kids, you know, just have really good manners. and, and, and, and, and how to dream and how to believe in yourself. Those always my main topics. And they’re still my main topics, but what kind of, I grew up.

In California, as I mentioned, and I didn’t even know anything about a black college, you know, I grew up because my father was in the air force in a totally diverse environment. And I was blessed that when I moved to Dayton high school, that I ended up attending with a totally diverse school, you know? So what [00:27:00] I’m encouraged to see right now, during this black lives matter thing, it seems like a little undercurrent of a change or undercurrent, people kind of.

Listening to what, some of us African Americans are saying, you know? And, and, and when I see, when I see, my kids out there protests and hard about black lives matter, I realized that this generation is tired of this, you know, and that encouraged to be first. That is the thing that encouraged me so much about it, that it became a diverse.

Situation, not just, you know, anger, you know, of a people who, you know, are, or continuing to be oppressed. It was like, everybody is tired of it now. And that’s what impressed me the most about it. But, I think that the best way though, to deal with, are one of the best ways to deal with, these young people.

it’s just to treat them with [00:28:00] respect, you know, and, and, and continue to encourage them to, you know, to live their life or respect and, and continue to dream and continue to move forward. You know, you know, I think that this. The thing is it’s so fluid, we just kind of have to roll it right now and, and she, you know, where it’s going to take us.

And so I hope that the world is better and that’s kind of what I see. And that’s the whole point.

Mike Klinzing: [00:28:32] I agree. I think one of the most encouraging parts of it is what you mentioned in that when you look at the protests, especially the peaceful protests that have gone on all over the place, right?

You look at those and you look at the diversity of the people who are in those crowds and that’s something that is completely encouraging. And then on a personal level, for me, one of the things that I think that this has brought to light for myself, [00:29:00] is it just. Makes you think about some of the things as a white that you may not have thought of before you may not have put yourself into a position where you have to think about if I was in this exact same situation and I was African American, how would I maybe look at that differently? And I think when you start to do that and you start to put yourself into somebody else’s shoes it makes it easier for you to develop the empathy and understanding for their perspective and full what is happening in them, around them. And just the way that the perception can be different.

And to me, that’s been incredibly powerful just for me as an individual.

And then the last thing that I wanted to ask you, and I heard you say it a couple of times, but I just want to kind of clarify. And that is when you talked about yourself growing up as a respectful person with manners and you’re dealing with your young players, the people that you come in contact with day in and day out, how important do you feel being a role model and your actions are when people are seeing you and your players are seeing you interact with others in a respectful manner versus.

You just talking to them about it. How important is the influence that you have on your players?

Lionel Garrett: [00:30:27] Yeah. Well, you know, the first thing that we have to do, just fundamentally is earn each other’s respect and trust. And so, if I’m talking one game and I’m in there and then someone sees me doing another thing, then I’m not earning your trust.

So that’s the most important thing to me is to earn trust. And, so I carry myself off the court where I walk it, like I talk it, you know, and the most important thing, [00:31:00] because if I can’t earn your trust, we can’t be good friends. I can’t be a good coach to you. And we’re going to just end up in a cycle of mistrust and never get to the point where we know how to improve.

We get better. On and off the court. So that’s the most important thing to me is how I carry myself around my players, how I present myself, just to see same way watching Johnny Davis as a kid, keep his shirt. That’s the thing. If they’re from a grownup now, you know, and so my actions, my movements, how I talk.

actually, a coach. I, you know, well, I guess I should say I rarely use profanity.

Mike Klinzing: [00:31:43] That’s a good qualifier.

Lionel Garrett: [00:31:47] you know, something might slip out. Yeah, every now and then, but it’s not even that bad. I’ve tried not to at all. I happened to be working for a team that didn’t agree with that. And so it was really funny if anybody heard me [00:32:00] just used like a word, like, well, damn if that’s simple, they’ll look like also.

And I purposely tried to carry myself that way and like I said, I can’t, I have to walk it, like I talk it to him, but those things are never I don’t think about it. Those would just speak to things for me to do. Absolutely.

Mike Klinzing: [00:32:22] All right, Jason, thanks for jumping in with that question.

I think it led us to an area that we wanted to hit on at some point anyway, but that was a really pointed question right. At that particular moment. So let’s jump back to Southern. Talk to me a little bit about the, about the transition. Well from a social and academic standpoint, but also a basketball state standpoint when you go from high school to Southern, what was that transition like for you from high school to college?

Lionel Garrett: [00:32:49] Right. Yeah. Well, the first thing that happened is, yeah, I just fell in love with Louisiana. Southern University is in Baton Rouge. and it just felt like an entirely different world at that [00:33:00] time. you know, because there were Creole people, the gumbo, the music.

And literally, the girls that transition was really solid. being there with, Frankie. and, and Robert Patterson and then, and then, merging with our teammates. We just all just instantly developed, you know, I guess with each other. So, you know, we’ve worked out hard in the off season.

We did everything together. And so that transition was pretty smooth. So my, my transition was really good. As a freshman, I came in and I earned a spot. I started with a spot on the varsity team and I was a starter ever since my freshman year. And the players I was able to beat out and do that, they were really outstanding players, outstanding people have been long time coaches right [00:34:00] now, you know, and we remained strong friends because we all just respected each other, our abilities. And it was really something to be, Oh, the way that we all went after it. So my memories were really, really, good, the transition was really good.

The things that I did best really fit in with the team. We had a team of Southern where, you know, we, you know, we played with one too. Maybe three different guys led the nation in scoring. We were a run and Stun team. We are like over a hundred points a game. Okay. And, and so we, everybody in my starting lineup, average point wise in double figures, Including my average of 16.

And I was the lowest average on the team.

Mike Klinzing: [00:34:55] They were telling you to go get it, Right?

Lionel Garrett: [00:34:59] Exactly. [00:35:00] And that’s exactly what I did. And it was important for a running team. And so I really, you know, what I did best really fit well with this team that we were putting together.

Cause I get it off the board and outlet it and. We’re we’re often running our coaches to just say, get out. And that’s what that meant. And even if I rebounded the ball and outlet at the ball, I had to be past half court. By the time we got a lay up in the, it was at that time, we, you know, you didn’t have three, 400 either.

So a layup coach to consider the lift a 30 footer. He just called them long layups, whatever the case is, if I’m the Outlet man. I had to get out there and run my butt down to court as fast as I can as well. Cause he wanted to want to us to transition into office and get past that court within three seconds.

And that was just all we were trying to do. So because the things I love doing, [00:36:00] home basketball found a home in a role, which gave me an understanding of my role is a rebounder. That’s where my nickname rebound doctor came from. That’s when I became the rebound doctor.

Mike Klinzing: [00:36:17] That’s a good nickname. I like it. I like it a lot. All right. So I asked you this question about your high school career, and I’m guessing that. One of your answers for this question is going to be the same. When I asked you about what are some of the things you, maybe your best memory from college, I’m guessing your teammates is going to be one of those things, or can you pick out ] a moment, a game, something that stands out to you about your college career?

Lionel Garrett: [00:36:44] It happens to be a gain to a loss in effect. No, I’m sorry. My, my last regular season home game would never leave my memory because it was the end coming to my last. [00:37:00] So the last game before I turned them. Right. And so, you know, if the game was beginning, I walked by our sports information table and I knock on the table three times and I said, Like that.

So this one I’m going to do this. I’m going to go out and my last regular season College game. Right. And so that was my goal. Well, at the end of the game, I had 29 points and 29 rebounds. I said, I know I had 30 rebounds and I never forget that because I predicted that and the seniors were all elated and happy.

And then that led to my next memory, which was, our tournament. You of course, were in determined where the number one team enter into the tournament and we lose by two. [00:38:00] And I just had, a MVP type tournament. And because we lost, Larry Smith who played in the NBA, played at Alcorn and played in the NBA, we’ll go to state and different teams were very long time.

So that’s my other, I’m like, geez, I could have got it. If we just would’ve won by one.

Mike Klinzing: [00:38:19] It’s amazing how those little turns that you go back and you think about just. If this one thing didn’t happen, we could have gone to this point, or we could have won this game, or maybe this opportunity would have materialized.

Lionel Garrett: [00:38:31] I’m always just one. Although, you know, it has typically been through some of my things. I post a lot more than one.

Mike Klinzing: [00:38:46] That’s true. I can get that. You can get into that too. No question about them, but sometimes it is just one and it’s definitely a good philosophy to go with that one possession and one play can make all the difference.

Even if that one plays [00:39:00] in the first half of the first quarter, it’s just, you know, it can make a huge, huge difference. So as you finish up at Southern, are you thinking about at that point. Playing professional basketball. Obviously you get drafted into the NBA. what are you thinking about in terms of your chances to do that?

How motivated are you at that point to make that happen? Just tell me what your mindset was as you finished up at Southern.

Lionel Garrett: [00:39:27] When I was finished with high school, I met, an agent and we talked on the surface. And one of the things that he told me was that. If you need to know, if you are able to go to college and imagination and revamping or something like that, I don’t care what school you are.

I don’t care if yourself and wherever you are. And I think that you’re going to be able to do that. If you do that, you’re going to be in the NBA like that. So I wasn’t motivated when I was a freshman

[00:40:00] three rounds, man, you know, And well, you know, he was right. And, and in fact it was so right. Of course, what was Frankie? My entire starting five, you know, in my junior year because three of those guys left in, we were all drafted by NBA teams in 78, 79.

And so one of the things that was happening in our practice, we were so talented that Scouts were coming to our practice at an HBCU. At that time, we just made that much noise, you know? And then, after who are three more, there were three more of my teammates that I played with that started with at one time, for my four years there.

They were drafted into the NBA as well. So one day, [00:41:00] so this is a shout out for Southern University basketball. That was a record. There’s no other HBCU to have ever done. There had eight players from the same team drafted into the NBA and that’s, that’s our claim to fame and people still love us because we’re so exciting.

So when I, when I arrived as a freshmen, you know, my mind and everybody else’s mind, you know, when I think back. You know, and I had to go back to school to pick up different hours or different things because I was so focused on basketball and no one, even at that time was like, well, son, you just really need to focus more on this department.

No, we were going to the NBA, this crazy thing. So from the moment I arrived, I felt that way became my next. It was all, you know, you’re a kid, you always thinks you play in the NBA. When people start telling you that like [00:42:00] power people start telling you that you, if you put this work in and these are the possibilities.

And so that’s why we never felt buried or anything by going to Southern.

Mike Klinzing: [00:42:12] Alright. So tell us about what happens as you get drafted and then just go through your experience. You were drafted by the Clippers. Just tell us what it was, what it was all about. Tell us what happened.

Lionel Garrett: [00:42:24] Yeah. wow. That was so first of all, I wanted to get back to California and I get drafted by a California team.

I’m like, Oh God, it’s wonderful. You know, and, and San Diego was so beautiful. and, gene Shu was the coach at that time and he brought me, they have this summer league. So, but he, yeah, he brought me out early and, I gained a lot of confidence, you know, playing against the guys on the teammate. You know, like at that time the teammates were like, Randy Smith, Bill Walton, you know, guys like that. And [00:43:00] so I really, you know, that really kinda helped me. it helped me so much that, that evolve of the draft picks, into free agents. I was the last one standing, so to speak, you know, I signed a contract with the Clippers and, and it was just really amazing, like a dream come true.

Being able to work with those guys the most amazing thing was when I was released, because I really, the way that it happened, I was playing well. And, I was getting some good media. The, you know, the local media was, you know, Dawn, a couple of little stories about me or mentioning me, you know, and it felt like that I probably will survive.

I was going to be there with you on that team, you know, but, When Bill Walton at that time, he was traded to San Diego. San Diego was his home. He was traded to San Diego and one of their big [00:44:00] powerful, and, Kermit Washington, they had to go to Portland and betray. So. Gene looked at me for as long as he could look, but he knew that bill needed some help, some extra help, because at that time, bill had some really bad foot problems as well.

And so he traded for, Joe Bryant, which is Kobe’s Dad ,and Marvin Barnes who was legendary, Marvin Barnes are that guy, because those guys that played for Gene Shue, who was the coach at that time and coached him in Philly. So when he made that tray and that kind of asked me out, you know, the business of the game came in and, and so typically when a cut was gonna come, everybody knew, okay, at the end of the day, we’re going to have to get rid of a couple of players.

[00:45:00] In fact, I was between two a days and I was in the gym early, you know, shooting free throws, trying to run by me. Hey, Lionel Gene, wants to see you in the office. I’m thinking Gene Shue is about to tell me there’s some things you’re going to have to work on, but we’re just going to help you learn that stuff this year, relax and play ball.

You’re a Clipper. I’m thinking I’m about to get that speech, but it wasn’t really that speech. and, and the reason why he pulled the trigger on me and what was amazing. He said, when he, you know, he told me that he’s gonna have to let me go, but one thing he said was, but don’t worry about it.

You have a job. Do you want to have a job? I didn’t know what he was talking about. You know, I just wanted to get home. I was, I was heartbroken and, fly home. and, and my father picks me up at the airport and he says, you need to call your coach. You know right now. So stop at the payphone, call my a coach.

And he’s like, your agent is looking all over the place for you. Cause I only talked to anybody. I just wanted to get that long ride back [00:46:00] to Ohio out the way. And so I called my agent, Ron, and he’s like, what are you doing? Why are you in Dayton right now. So I just wanted to come home. You, you already know today release me.

He’s like, I haven’t been able to reach you. We didn’t have cell phones, so I haven’t been able to reach you because I got out of the hotel.

Mike Klinzing: [00:46:24] Isn’t that weird that there was actually a time where you couldn’t find somebody. That’s amazing.

Lionel Garrett: [00:46:31] It was crazy. Now it’s unthinkable now. And, but the bottom line is though I have to turn right around. when I arrived at Dayton from San Diego and turned right around and fly back to Los Angeles, because, and if he told me because the Harlem Trotters want you, and that’s why the Clippers let you go so that you can join them because they probably are not going to keep you beyond the trade deadline.

So I’m like, what. Like, man, I don’t know anything [00:47:00] about spinning a basketball on my head, you know, time you felt in danger or something, but are you crazy? Come off because I’m very competitive. He’s like, well, I know this is all I can tell you right now that, the Globetrotters are going to match the contract that you had with the Clippers.

They’re going to match it, you know? And they don’t want you to spin the ball and everybody has roles. They want you to rebound for Gail because when the rebound with the ball history realm, Anybody can get that, you know, for the show to go on big idea, we got to add a ball, you know? And so, you know, you’ll be home in December for attendance and we’ll see what happens at that point.

And so. I flew out to Los Angeles and I became a Globetrotter

Mike Klinzing: [00:47:50] Within like 24 hours, you went from, I don’t know anything about the Globetrotters to being a globetrotter.

Lionel Garrett: [00:47:55] Right. Right. And I get to the camp and this is kind of [00:48:00] transitioning into another part of my basketball planning days. And so when I get to the Capitol, we there. We didn’t do a single, we call it a range, a single trip.

We just had two days, we were just playing. We were just hoping. And in fact, they were looking for five guys that was the other, they just, you know, so I had to go through the process to prove that I was worthy and probably had about. 50 or 60 guys out there who had just come from NBA, champs, you know, out in Hollywood, which was our home base.

And, well, fortunately for me at that time, I became, six of the new players, I was one of six or was it five or something like that, new players, they were able, and next thing I know I’m being interviewed by Brian gumbo and you know, and we’re all running out still trying to figure out, well, what am I going to do?

I don’t know how to spin a ball in my head. I don’t do that kind of stuff. Cause we didn’t even work on it. And you get on the road for [00:49:00] the first game. And so at the end of the first quarter, the player calls, she tell me young fella, you go in. I’m like, okay, do you just go play? You don’t have to rebound.

Just go play. Well, you do put your personality. That’s okay. That’s helpful enough. So I did that and then, it was half time and, and then when the third quarter came and he told me a half time, you’re gonna, you’re gonna, you’re gonna start. the second half, in the third quarter, it’s going to be yours.

The second and third quarter are your reports. You know, if that we’re going to do at least that’s how I learned that I was going to do a little play is called diff you do. And he described it to me where the guys are Raven and it cut into the basket and taking a layup up toss in the air. The second guy falls and tosses it in the air.

The third guy out of the we talk, and then I disappear from any place and talk it home. And the quarter ends at the end of that quarter. And I was me. That’s what I did. And I did that [00:50:00] for every single night, you know? and it’s probably why my knees hurt today.

Mike Klinzing: [00:50:07] Alright. So I want to talk to you about two things related to the globetrotters. Let’s start out with the travel first talk about some of the places that you were able to go and maybe. One or two of the favorite cities countries that you got a chance to visit as a result of your affiliation with the globe?

Lionel Garrett: [00:50:27] Yeah. Yeah. Our travel was really intense. We were on the road for six, seven months and we played every single night.

We’ll have one night off a week. We covered I’ll play with the national, the growth service divided into two units, the national unit and the international unit I’ll play with the national union deal was just more popular because they have. Players like, God rest his soul at this point, Curly Neal, you had Meadowlark Lemon, but I didn’t play with him.

He left the team the year before I joined the team, but it was the more [00:51:00] popular teams. So the national unit, we covered all the major cities in North America and Europe. so, I mean, where have I not, yeah, it was so intense. but you know, it turns out I had several favorite places. and I guess because they spoke English and I was able to generate so many friends, London was my town.

and it might also be the fact that when we would travel to Europe, we will go to London first. And we will stay in London for a month. So I felt like I lived in London and under for a month and we would, you know, travel out from there. And play. They always come back to London, you know? And so I was able to, you know, the basketball was different.

you know, because it was, you know, British people. It’s not that like basketball was a big thing to them, even, even with that said, though, they will start whistling. If we did too many trick plays, they wanted to [00:52:00] play basketball. So it was kind of strength like that. And we played at Wembley arena. our stadium or whatever, they call it at Wembley.

And, I just met so many wonderful people while I was in London, and notable people, that, that I recall and just had a wonderful time as a young man and, in my international life, I’m hanging out with rock stars, hang out with bass player, of the rolling stones and we became fast, great friends that quit.

And we, we met one of the things I did with the glow charter said I would do some of our advanced stuff. I would do radio. And so, while in London, I was scheduled to do a BBC radio show. So, arrive at the studio and Bill Wyman, who played bass for the rolling stones. He’s there too. So now we’re both on this call and talk show and he’s a rolling stone in London is his home and he’s, and he’s in [00:53:00] town to promote the soundtrack or the music or the soundtrack of a movie.

You know, they was coming out at the time that he wrote and I’m there with the globe charter. So it was like, how is this going to work? And it worked out unbelievably great people were posting questions to both of us, his girlfriend. She brings a bottle of wine in and puts it in the middle of the table where we sit and bill and bill, those should me say, would you like a glass and me being friendly on by?

Sure. And, and so while we’re finishing, it was over, he invited me, he said, I’m going to be in town for the rest of the week. And I have a lot of different functions happening in the evening. What time do you get back to your hotel? And I told him, he said, I want to invite you to everything. I have a car coming to pick you up.

So I hung out with her for a week and just had the greatest time, you know, he had large dinners parties, and I met so many different people off of this, been off site, like Steven [00:54:00] stills, cats like that. And so what ended up happening? I would, I would really Jim to every city, you know, I would walk around and get to meet new people.

but, but that experience in Montin, they just help. You know, with a different level of meeting different people and getting involved with different things. And so that’s why that’s my strongest memory. And I have the most stories of which I can’t.

Mike Klinzing: [00:54:32] Are you a big music guy? Yeah.

Lionel Garrett: [00:54:39] And the reason why, you know, I ended up, I met him at one of dinners and we were sitting, marry each other and we were talking about music and I told him, I said, well, you know, I like Jay, I should, everybody jazz. He said, I do too. And I said, Oh, do you really? He’s like, yeah, You said, I’ve got a couple of tracks that you need to hear.

So he was just in London, but I think he was dealing with some kind of losses [00:55:00] and any of the big, large suite, his hotel. And he had all of this equipment set up in there. You will think it was a studio. So, on the way in jumped in the taxi with him, stopped by his place. and, Bye bye his hotel. And he played the music for me.

And, you know, so I became a critic. It was really nice. I was so surprised his speaking skills played jazz. Cool. You know? so yes, I was, I was being, and I am now music has always been a soundtrack.

Mike Klinzing: [00:55:32] Second thing I wanted to ask you about was. The personalities of some of the more well known guys that you have to play with.

I will admit to frequently running around my gym as a young kid, trying to slide on my knees, your teammate currently, Neal. So talk to me a little bit about what kind of guy. Curly Neal was cause he’s obviously a famous name and especially from somebody who is my age. So I just turned 50 this [00:56:00] year. So Curly was kind of in the heyday of when I was a kid.

So just tell me a little bit about him. I’m curious, what kind of guy he was as a teammate.

Lionel Garrett: [00:56:08] Oh, surely he was the best, man. He really was, you know, curly, most of my teammates, we’ll stick with Curly right now. you know, I was really close to Curly. In fact, I would shave the back of his head for him because.

He was shaking his head saying, make sure it’s nice and clean. And back in those days you know, all you had was like, people like Telly Savalas with the bald head. And wasn’t, you know, that big until, until Michael Jordan kind of brought it into being cool.

It was funny. We’re probably so he would put a curly wig on, you know, and then as we were being introduced, produced, you know, it would get snatched off. And then, you know, you know, and then he has a ball game. So people have, he, he, [00:57:00] well, I’m not going to say that they loved it, but every night, you know,they call me doc, but my teammates would call me doctor

I called Curly bone because of the seat, get it back to him. He gets it back for me. And so I realized right before the game, I’m shaving the back of his ear. With Curly though, just a sweet human being, man. You know, he, he was an unbelievable basketball player as well, but his personality and persona just found this way to be a Globetrotter for life.

You know, and, we were, considered with the globe, Charles, we are Goodwill ambassadors. We represented the United States in that way. And he was the best. He was the best Goodwill ambassador you could ever imagine. Super talented, you know, unbelievable personality. He had [00:58:00] patience with everybody because I mean, people, this is one of the things I’ve discovered about the charters, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re playing in Indianapolis.

Give you an example. And the 76 years of playing in Indianapolis the next night or something like that. So we’re both in the same hotel. And this is when, when Dr. J was with Philly, then this was at that time. So our hotel lobby is cool. And then I realized that those people, the lobby are not here to really see the Philadelphia players.

They’re looking for us. I’m like, wow. You know, and that was because of guys like Curly. There’s personality. He’d come down there and drink a cup of coffee and talk to everybody and sign autographs. You know, he never, nothing was ever too much for him. You know, he taught me about the role, how to live on the [00:59:00] road, you know, things about how to keep your clothes, not wrinkled in a suitcase for six, seven months, you know? and so, also saying. this year, you know, by the loss of him, you know, he just seemed like somebody that will live forever. You know, his personality was big, he was a fantastic human being.

Mike Klinzing: [00:59:26] So to go along with that, I think when I think back to that heyday of the Globetrotters and Saturday afternoon, Wide World of Sports and Jim McKay you’re talking about the globetrotters.

And you think about all those guys. And I remember. Yeah, clearly, it’s just like you said, the Globetrotters, it’s hard for somebody probably even who’s Jason’s age to relate to the fact that the Globetrotters at that time were such a huge, huge deal and were really a cultural phenomenon. But I think one of the questions that I used to have, or I [01:00:00] used to think about, especially with a guy like Curly Neal, who clearly had a tremendous amount of basketball skill is, What kind of player could he have been, had he played in the NBA? So what’s your thought, the guys that played with you, your teammates, and obviously you were close and I’m sure you could have gotten another opportunity and, and made it in the right situation. Or would you look at some of the guys that you played with who were maybe a name or two that you think, Oh, no doubt.

Had this guy been in the NBA. They would have been a really good player.

Lionel Garrett: [01:00:32] Oh yeah, definitely. Several of us. one, they, Billy Ray played the Delta university, six, eight guard on believable. He certainly should have played in the NBA, but his personality was so dynamic and he found his niche with the Globetrotters that he made it and he played about 18 years with the Globetrotters.

[01:01:00] And so sometimes even like what a guy like curly it, that became his decision. I don’t want to pay the NBA. I’m fine. Where I am, bro. You know, I was the only one that didn’t want to play.

I was the only one. And, and I did, you know, break away after three or four years. and I went and started playing professionally in Spain and just paint and got away from, Billy Ray, Robert big baby face, page seven footer bed just could do everything, you know, had the prettiest hook, shot the prettiest, just great size NBA body.

You know, she could have easily been a, a really good NBA players. So when I first started playing, playing, and the player coach put me in the game and the second quarter. And he said, just do what you do in [01:02:00] playing with enthusiasm. What he was telling me was go out there and hoop, because that was also, especially at that time, that element of the charters, while we did all these other things, you know, we also wanted people to know that we were really great players as well and did outstanding things.

I turned rebounding into part of the game. our announcer were key status and he would, you know, I mean, I plan in the globe charter game and he’s keeping my stats and I have 24 points and 27 rebounds. So he’s announcing it like you’re trying to get me to the 30 rebound. So that was probably the show, you know?

And then the dynamic of it is what you feel crazy. So I’ve had one of those types of nights and, and we’re signing autographs after the game. And, you know, parents can look at me and be like, well, I don’t remember seeing you out there.

I’m the one who just had about 30 rebounds.

Mike Klinzing: [01:02:58] That’s hilarious. So [01:03:00] here’s a question that I’ve always wanted to ask. You’re traveling with the Washington generals. How much contact do you have with those guys off the floor? And did you ever develop a relationship with anybody from the generals during your time with the Trotters?

Lionel Garrett: [01:03:15] Absolutely. We travel separately. We stayed in separate hotels. We would only see each other, you know, we arrived at the arena and play. And if you were going to get together after the game and do something, What some of those guys on the Washington generals were doing though, is they were trying to become globe charters, you know, and they had a lot of time and, and, and, and some of them did.

And one of my best friends,he did breakthrough and is an outstanding player. And we used to hang out. you know, they were, he owned pero Hubbard, Mike Johnson. I don’t know if you remember 80 jobs from the plays with the bulls, his brother, brother. and, [01:04:00] but he plays with the, with the generals and he, Mike was such a great player for the generals that we called him sideshow.

I still talk to those guys.

Mike Klinzing: [01:04:14] That’s very cool. So I’m going to tell you, I’m going to tell my gold Trotter story. I don’t know if I’ve ever told this story. I got one. So when I was, I’m trying to think this was probably had to be shortly after I graduated from college. So I’m thinking it was probably somewhere in 1993, 1994, that a friend of mine.Calls me up and says, Hey Mike, they’re having a, this radio station is having a contest. Okay. You have to go and try out. And if you go to this tryout and you get selected from the tryout, you will get an opportunity to suit up for the Washington generals and get free tickets for a, you know, you got like four tickets or five [01:05:00] tickets or something to go along. If you went to this tryout, you were selected. So I’m like, Oh, you know, I don’t know if I want to do that.

And my friend. Keeps trying to convince me that no, you should go should be fine. Of course. You know, like I told you before growing up kind of in the heyday of the Globetrotters eventually kind of wore me down.

I’m like, Oh, I don’t go. So I go and there’s probably, I would guess there was probably. 35 or so people there, and there were people of all different levels of basketball. Maybe let’s just put it there. You have people doing cartwheels and you had other people that are showing off their dribbling skills or whatever.

And to be honest with you, I don’t even remember what I did as my little one minute or two minute trial where we have, where we had to do. I think I just ended up taking shots and doing some things, but anyway, I got selected as the person that was going to get an opportunity, go and play with the generals.

So the game was at the old Richfield Coliseum. So I go out to the Coliseum, I get there early, or I get introduced to, you know, some members of the generals and we’d go out, out, out, out to the four and they were going to in during. The segment where the Trotters are doing the, are doing the weave, like you’ve described with the Dipsy door, they’re ducking in and out, and the ball is flying around.

And so the directions that they gave me and they have you practicing, it was, you have to. Stay right on the guy from the Globetrotters. You have to stay right on his tail or you’re going to get hit by hitting the head by the ball. If you’re not right on right on his back, you’re going to take one of the head.So I’m like, okay. So I’m trying to, you know, I’m trying to practice, I’m trying to do this, you know, whatever. And I’m like, all right, I got it. So we get to the game and I can’t move it’s maybe the second or third quarter, the thing’s going to come on. And I go out on the floor and. [01:07:00] No after, like, I don’t know, 15 or 20 seconds, they, you know, it’s time for it’s time for my little proof are part of the performance.

So I’m trying to stay up and of course you’re in the game and everything’s moving a lot faster than it was a practice running through. And boom, I take one right in the head, right? Yeah. ] So took one in the head, but then they let it be in. I got to play another minute or two and at one point while I was in there, I got foul.

I don’t know if I got fouled, but they call the foul and I got to go to the line in the game and I got to make two free throws. In my Washington generals career. I was two for two at the line, with one ball off the head. And it was just, it was a really cool experience.

Jason Sunkle: [01:07:52] I’ve known Mike since I was six years old and I’ve never heard this story. I’m 30. So 26, 27 years. I’ve never heard this story, this stuff. [01:08:00]

Mike Klinzing: [01:08:15] I do have a still photo or two of that. And Jason will appreciate this and I’ll have to, I’ll have to break it out at some point. So earlier, probably, I don’t know, this was maybe four months ago, five months ago. I can’t remember. We did a podcast with the guys from five star basketball. And in the course of that conversation, I said, To them.

I said, I have a bag of old like shirts and things that kind of are momentos of my career. And so I went, as we were doing the podcast, I went, got out my all star games shirt from five star. And I put that, I think back on, I took a photo of myself. I put it on social media and. I’ll say to you and to Jason, I have the uniform of the Washington Generals that I wore that night.

Now this was that in 1992 93. So I was only a year or two removed from being at Kent. I was basketball player. At that point, the uniform was ridiculously small on me. Yeah. So right now, and I haven’t gotten this thing out in a long time, I have a feeling, it would look very, very ridiculous. So I have a doubt motivated at some point either tonight or tomorrow, I will go into my bag of uniforms and get it out and take a picture of it and put it on social media for people to see.

I will not be wearing it because it could be rather embarrassing, but I will definitely,

Lionel Garrett: [01:09:39] I can’t, I can’t wear mine either.

Mike Klinzing: [01:09:44] I don’t know if I could have even worn it back then. I don’t know that it fits you well, so

Lionel Garrett: [01:09:47] yeah, definitely. Like how did that, where that, I mean, that, that’s a great that’s. That’s great.

That’s a great experience. Let me ask you a question. You mentioned Five Star. You were a five star [01:10:00] player.

Mike Klinzing: [01:10:03] I went to Five Star only one year. I went between my junior and senior year. And the year that I went Billy Owens was the guy who was there the week that I was there and I went with the idea that I was going a really good high school player, but I was not, as we talked about off the top where you suddenly discovered that you were able to jump out of the gym, I discovered that I was able to jump over a newspaper. So for me, I relied on some other things in order to get me where I wanted to go.

So I guess like all I is that I was not a. I was not a big time recruit by any means, but I went to five star are with the idea still that I was going to be recruited by all the big name schools. And I got there and nobody knew who I was and I ended up not making it to the top league at Five Star.

So I [01:11:00] was in, I think the top leader, it was the NBA and, you know, the second league was the NCAA or however they had it set up. And so I remember all week. Playing with a chip on my shoulder, looking at these guys who were playing in the league above me and saying, Oh, I’m as good as these guys. I’m as good as these guys.

And I ended up, I ended up making, you know, making the all star team in the league and then I ended up being, and then I ended up being the MVP of the all star games. Oh wow. I’m so I felt like, I felt like I proved myself and I’m like, well, if I was the MVP of this all star game, I probably could have been playing.

In the, in the top, in the top league, we don’t five star. It was a great, it was a great experience for me. The learning that went on and just went along with, you know, everything that we talked about with playground basketball and playing outside. That was my element. And it was just, there was no place.

There was no place like five star. And I don’t think there ever will be again.

Lionel Garrett: [01:11:58] Oh, wow. [01:12:00] Yeah. That’s that’s that’s fantastic. I didn’t, I didn’t know. Okay. Congratulations.

Mike Klinzing: [01:12:07] Thank you. As I tell my kids, whenever they ask me something like that was a long time ago.

Lionel Garrett: [01:12:10] Everything is a long time ago. That’s true.

Mike Klinzing: [01:12:14] That’s true. So what’s your experience with Five star?

Lionel Garrett: [01:12:18] I never went to, but those are, those are the types of things that it wasn’t a, it was those different kinds of camps. The players would go to be at local or whatever. and I never did any of that. You know, when I was in high school coming up,

Mike Klinzing: [01:12:38] like I said I only went one year.

I mean, I know there were lots of people that either had a big reputation or had better connections to places and people that they went from the time that they were freshmen. And I just never had that opportunity. And really, I only got the opportunity because a guy who went to my high school who was four years older than me, he had a connection [01:13:00] to somebody who had a connection to somebody.

Then they ended up getting me in and getting his younger brother into the camp with me. So the two of us went and so it had nothing to do with my merits as a player that got me in there. It was just the fact that I knew somebody who knew somebody and that’s how I ended up getting an opportunity to go.

But it’s one of those experiences that when you look back on. Sort of the history of American basketball. The fact that I was able to spend a week there was tremendous for me. And even just from a podcasting standpoint, the number of people that we’ve had on that have. Talked about the influence that five-star had on them, whether it was as clear or guys who got to go there as a coach, it’s just amazing.

So I’m really thankful that I got an opportunity to do that.

Lionel Garrett: [01:13:45] Yeah. I wish that I could have as well. Like I mentioned to you earlier, I didn’t grow up in Dayton. I moved to Dayton in the 10th grade. I just kind of jumped on the scene. So I’m really. Proud of what you know. And, [01:14:00] of course I’m a high school hall of Famer for my school in that short period of time.

And the masons being from high school in Dayton. Yeah. And I’m also part of his athletic conferences. And we had a lot of legendary basketball players from other stuff such as Avery Johnson, whose names you probably know who just became a coach in the NBA, won championships with the Spurs. The disagree things, you know, he’s a Southern university, athletic hall of fame as well.

Mike Klinzing: [01:14:33] It’s really cool to be able to have and feel a connection. To the program that you went to and participated in. And, and that’s, I think that there’s always even guys that you didn’t play with, if you have a lot with, and I know like, since I graduated, see I in contact with many of my teammates, but also I have developed friendships with guys, mainly guys who actually played after I did, who are younger than me.I’ve had the opportunity to be able to ] get to know those guys and become friends with all them. And it’s just. You know, there’s a bond there that when you go through that extreme, then you, you, nobody who has gone through it can really understand what that, what that process is. It was all about.

Lionel Garrett: [01:15:15]Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, I don’t know. It’s been forever since I’ve been away, from college. And, recently this week, on my, on my social network became, somebody sent me a picture of the star and five Victor was playing against Texas Southern had all of us on it. And so I originally posted it on my Facebook page and it has been amazing.

The people making comments, the people who were not teammate. You know, the people who enjoy, you know, what we did, you know, the time that we were living in conversations, it became like this big alumni, I think, you know, so beautiful. Is it on our [01:16:00] Facebook page right now? The conversation she’s been going on for the last week.

Yeah. And so, that’s, you know, you know that it’s not just the players, you know, in new verbalize the impact, we will promise kids the impact we had on some of the other students, you know, who are now doctors and lawyers, but they remember. You know, trying to get to the gym before anybody else, so they won’t have to stand up.

Mike Klinzing: [01:16:29] And you may not even know them at that point.

Lionel Garrett: [01:16:32] I did. I probably did not. You know, I it’s so crazy. And this is happening now. This is happening today. You know, one of the, he, he, he told me, I mean, I played for one of the, what are the alumni as I’ll call them, tell me that. he was like a little kid, like six, seven, eight years old when I was playing there.

But his parents used to talk about all the time. He lived the bad roads, you know? And I’m just like, yeah, this is really amazing. so he knew about our team. He, you know, Newberry. So [01:17:00] he actually, he actually, you know, a few days ago, what I would, I find his basketball. So he’s like in Baton Rouge and I’m here.

So. You know, he’s a doctor, you know, if somebody, yeah, I will. I’ll let you know when I, I still go to Baton Rouge a lot, but you know, when I come back down here, he, he sends me a message two days. It says I got my basketball. What’s your address?

That’s really cool. And it goes back to what we talked about earlier, about what you do as a role model and how people see it.

And you never know, as a coach, as an athlete, you never know who’s watching you, who you’re making an impression on a lot of times, I think sometimes, you know, sometimes we get caught up, you know, people get caught up in the moment and. Maybe behave in a way that maybe they wouldn’t be proud of. And I think if you, if you’re intentional and you’re conscious of what you’re doing, [01:18:00] you end up being the type of role model that somebody like this situation that you just described, somebody who was eight years old, you’ve never met him.

You never knew that, but yet, for some reason, I’ve had an impact on that, on that kid.

Lionel Garrett: [01:18:17] And that wasn’t even with the globe tries this when I was in kid, because, you know, , you just said something exactly. You never know who’s watching. So I asked her a lot of time coaching, and, and, and, and minor league basketball as well. And I coach was commissioning kind of randomly called the WBA. Do a face out of Atlanta.

It was, we had an unbelievable lead. we put a lot of guys, a lot of guys develop yourself and got to the NBA and became international superstar. If one game the name you may remember, I don’t know. You may know. Jamario Moon

Mike Klinzing: [01:18:52] Yeah, absolutely plays for the Cavs here.

Lionel Garrett: [01:18:55] Exactly. That’s my guy. He played for me on several different teams in me.He was like, my son he’s at my house all the time cooking, you know, I know when he was broke. Yeah. Yeah.

The thing so that with those guys and including tomorrow that you never know who’s watching you, but at that level they’re watching everything you do. Scouts are there. They’re watching how you, if you take it out of the game, how you watch, how you walk to the bitch. You know, where you sit, what’s your attitude to watch and how, you know, Scouts are watching how NBA people are watching.

How, if you make a mistake, you know, do you take responsibility for you mistake or that’s your body language indicate that it was somebody else’s fault, you know? So you never know who’s watching you. And that was something that we used to stress all the time Jamario was really interested in Jamario [01:20:00] unbelievable talent.

Unbelievable town, but nobody was interested in him because he was kind of a loop. He’s very aloof. You know, he’s from Goodwill or good water, Alabama, a little country town, and Jamario wouldn’t mind from saying this about him. Tell him to his face all the time. He knows I was, he will be just as happy if he was sitting on his porch sucking on a blade of grass.

Yeah. And so, so now, so we’re trying to figure out, you know, I’m working with it. We had a legendary team in the WBA called the wrong gladiators and also associate head coach that because the head coach, Harold Ellis also worked with the Atlanta Hawks, feel rapidness who at the time was playing in the NBA.

feel was our team owner. You know, we had a dynamic team, so we were bringing those kinds of players in by tomorrow. So tomorrow comes in and he’s under my wing. So I’m trying to help him figure out how to get people, you know, to, to [01:21:00] understand that he’s a player to play in the NBA. And luck would have it that happened.

But the thing is, you know, I’ve tried to help him. It was, he had a problem with perception and perception is reality. So it was kind of like, well, how do we get you out of this reality? And so I suggested to him and we worked on it and I got on him. If he didn’t do some simple things, like 50, 50 balls. For Sue, wait, don’t just stand there Jamario. He had long arms, as you know, and he’s really athletic and really mobile than me tomorrow. Six, eight. so we work harder on his perimeter defense. Cause I want him to be able to get his hands on ball deflections and stills. And that’s how he got into his highlight high flight game. You get a, still a reflection get in the lane and that’s what he did.

So we worked on that. And so, Jamario with my health. You know, he ended up moving from us. He [01:22:00] needs more exposure. He goes to the Albany patrols in the CVA. And, you know, when I was in the summer time and it was there, you play well, Michael Ray Richardson, microwave rich. And he just happened to be telling him the same things that I was done.

It just seemed like the most logical things to help him with. And then the team in Toronto saw him and they invited him to a camp. You got through the cat, made it with the Toronto Raptors, made the team. Oh my God. He’s a 28 year old rookie. That’s my guy. And then of course he got, you know, he got traded a couple of times in Cleveland.

Yup. That’s my guy. We talked to this guy, this guy think I talked to him a couple of days ago.

Mike Klinzing: [01:22:45] That’s awesome.

Lionel Garrett: [01:22:46] Yeah.

Mike Klinzing: [01:22:47] It’s just amazing stories like that. When you share about. The trials and tribulations in journeys that different players go on and different people have for the game of basketball and just it’s [01:23:00] endlessly fascinating to me, the different ways that people have to interact with the game, you know, as players, as coaches and just all the different places that you can play and use some of the minor league basketball that you’re talking about that.

Many people who love basketball and who are immersed in basketball, don’t even know that some of those leagues and places have existed for years and years and years. And it’s just, there’s so many different ways that you can stay in ball in the game and give back to it. And, you know, I think just from having this conversation, hopefully for our audience, it comes.

Across loud and clear just how much you love the game and how much I love the game. And Jason was just the way that we feel about it, what it’s given to us. And, you know, I think about pretty much everything in my life in some way, shape or form. I can either trace back directly to basketball or trace back to a lesson that I learned as well.

That helped shape me into who I am today. [01:24:00] And I think it’s clear from talking to you that you feel the same way. I want to ask you just talking about what you’ve, where you jumped to now is when did you know that you wanted to coach? Was that something that while you were playing, he thought, Hey, when I get done, I want to coach.

Or was it more when your playing career ended, you looked around and said, Hey, I was, I still want to be in basketball. Maybe this coaching thing would be something like give a trial. How would you describe yourself getting into the coaching profession?

Lionel Garrett: [01:24:28] I just evolved into it. And here’s what I mean by that, because I was so focused as a rebounder.

I studied the game that way rebound doctor, you know, I believe that everything ends and begins with the Rebound, your defense ends with rebound. So I studied defense. Your offense began with the rebound. And so I study on offense and, and I coach out of that [01:25:00] will be in the center. So when I was in college, so this is when this weekend I studied my teammates.

I knew their tendency. I knew, you know, as far as trying to get second shot opportunities for, for our team are really, and score points that I did it. I studied them. I knew their like, you know, what they would like me to do. And, you know, Tommy green, our point guard, he was pretty helpful. You know, he was going to Jack the ball anytime he’s around the top of the key.

And this shot is always most of the times when the bounce straight back to him, it’s just a mist. So wherever I am on that court, I’m trying to get the edge and lean in that direction where I’m expecting that basketball to rebound to in order to get my hands on it. So I studied to gain from rebounding, and that’s why I say an evolution.

because it just kind of grew into, it was like our, such a student of the game because of rebound. It just continued on, you know? No, I never said, I never [01:26:00] said, you know, I want to coach opportunity came. I was blessed. I’ve been very bad, less about basketball. The opportunity came and then I fell in love with coaching.

Mike Klinzing: [01:26:12] All right. I’m not even going to attempt to go through all the different stops you’ve had on your coach career. So give me maybe a highlight or two, or just maybe a quick summary of some of the places that you’ve had the good fortune to be able to coach. And now we’ll work our way towards, of what you’re doing now with rebound doctor and your individual skill development work, and then what you’re doing at Wilberforce.

So just kind of give us the, give us the summary of how you got there.

Lionel Garrett: [01:26:40] Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I coach, I think more, most interesting stuff is when I coach internationally and wanted to attain that I coach was the, Called the Myers, the Yucatan, and the, my state Yucatan and find him in the LN BP, which is the, the major league in Mexico.

And, and so of course [01:27:00] we were in the Yucatan, was just a beautiful place, you know, if people were smaller, but then, basketball, just so unbelievably great. and we won a championship and everything and their love of the game. And so I just have. That was my best international experience and still, you know, good friends with the guys, the two brothers that own that team.

and as well as some of the players that were from Mexico. And of course, all of my all American players from America, we’re still really good friends. To this day, but playing our coaching, and the Yucatan was an incredible, just beautiful experience of the people. The Yucatan wonderful. The city was great.

And I learned a lot about Mexico. I didn’t know. There was such great cities existed. In Mexico, you know, by traveling to Mexico, it was just a unbelievable experience. And now I’ve been everywhere with the globe Trotters. I’ve been all over [01:28:00] the place, but that experience as a coach in the Yucatan was one I’ll never forget.

Mike Klinzing: [01:28:07] All right. I always ask this question. And since you played and coached overseas, I know you have one now you may not be able to share all of them, but what is your. Craziest overseas basketball story that you can share on a PG rated podcast

Lionel Garrett: [01:28:28] Let me think about that for a second because there were so many great things that did happen. , I was there, when, the Pope was shot. Yeah. I think that’s when and yeah. And, and so of course, I’m trying to remember exactly where I was, I was an idiot. I don’t know, the media was crazy about it, you know, and we remember feeling like, man, just get outta here.

This is go home. [01:29:00] You know? and so that was kind of a crazy time, but, you know, on the PG side, you know, just, events that could happen to can make it kind of crazy for you. We were blessed. We didn’t have a much kind of stuff happening. Everything was solid about, you know, the fund we were having and the loving we were sharing and being good, willing bachelors and representing our country the best way that we could.

And in my experience with the Globetrotter, that is exactly how I feel about what we were doing. People don’t realize that good being a Goodwill ambassador was not just Something that we said, that’s who we were and that’s how we acted. And that’s what we were, with the Globetrotters. So it was more than basketball there.

So all that, most of the experiences were really wonderful. You know, the off the court experience, she was like, things happening by, there were just unbelievable, like meeting Stephen stills or hanging out in party and he’d become a really good friend. We’ll [01:30:00] bill Wyman of the rolling stones, hanging out with the rolling stones who gets to do that, you know, so, you know, I just, I’ve been so blessed with basketball has been a total blessing for me from, I got the wind knocked out of me from that day,

a true blessing. And. I have done a lot. I’ve been a lot of places and I’ve had a lot of success and I’ve had a lot of failures as well. but you know, phenomenally well-traveled, you know, well-versed and full of wisdom, blessed to have, been able to turn my experiences into wisdom and know how to use it.

and so it’s just in basketball. I was going to a wonderful blessing.

Mike Klinzing: [01:30:47] All right. So that being said, let’s fast forward to today. And tell us a little bit about what you do at Wilberforce, what your role is. And then after you do that, tell us a little about what you do with your Rebound Doctor training business.

And then after you do that, we’re I think we’re getting close to, we may have even blown past the hour and a half mark we’re close. I don’t know. Again, every time I look up, I’m always amazed by like that conversation went way too quickly share with us Wilberforce share with us rebound doctor, and then we’ll, we’ll head towards wrapping things up.

Lionel Garrett: [01:31:26] Yeah, I’m proud to the going into my fourth season, working with, the Wilberforce Bulldogs. Wilberforce, historically black college, in, well before, so high, which is right outside the us, we’re actually is ending. So it is right outside of here, Dayton and, I had a good friend. I, I moved back to dating four years ago for before years in July, once three times, my father and my family on base to have a home still in Atlanta.

And that’s where I kind of traveled the world from. I wanted to come on through every well. Now I’ve been kind of stuck here. So, but when I’ve [01:32:00] heard a guy here, a good friend of mine, he got the head coaching job at it, man, coach job well before us. And he knew me very well and he knew I moved back to Dayton.

So he asked me, would I come over and help him? You know, and I, after I thought about it, I’m like, well, okay, I will. And so I, you know, four years ago I joined him Wilberforce and, but they couldn’t pay me. So one force offered me a different job in order to be compensated, to come up there. And, and I did that.

And I work with him, coach waters and I work with him and that’s, I got the rules with the man and we won a championship. We want to, you know, it’s like a Christian college in it is what it was called, but we were very proud to have won that championship. And, and so we brought some success together.

To our Wilberforce. So that’s how I got through to workforce. I focused on place your development, and helping him. And, but it was more like everybody development, helping him, helping everything that was [01:33:00] moving about the game, about what we were doing. but definitely the year I did demand athletics director at the time was also the head.

One is coaching. He convinced me to come and work with him. He wanted me to. Work with him. Right. And after much deliberation because I’ve never coached women before. And at the same time that was intriguing. I switched over to working with women. And so I became the skilled enhancement coach, you know, with, with them and, and, and of course work with our base, with every, I work with everybody.

As far as trying to do everything to help them prepare themselves mentally and physically. And that’s what I wanted to do. That’s the role that I wanted to play out. It just wouldn’t be your standard every day. That’s the wrong word, because I’ve been an assistant coach for millions of times, but I wanted to have a different kind of impact where my career was gone.

There was no it’s about culturally, before it was going to help me get a job or anything. My [01:34:00] resume is already well enough. You know, to do that, but it was because I wanted to really, you know, help those players get better at that level. And more than we ever were, we were having, when he was in that first year with, with the women, we were able to make it to our national tournament.

NAIA school division two. And that was historic. That was his story, you know? So I’m like, okay. Working with the woman, things kind of fast our next few years, fast season. we did it again, you know, and, and, and in fact, when we were in Iowa at the national tournament, which was this year, we will able to play our game.

Cause we it, Oh. And when the season ended, for, for now, everything was shut down and that was a shocking time. But the point being that we went back to the national, so we’ve had a lot of success. I’ve been [01:35:00] having a lot of fun, helping those young ladies and young men.

You know, learn how to be, you know, you know, my stuff is on the court and off the court, you know, our women’s team are the best students on the campus. You know, two of them were Cove out of Victorians, you know, this past year, you know, and all of that is how we deal with, with, with our, our, our students and our athletes that will before, you know, but I’m trying to make them, you know, pursue their dreams on their basketball court.

And pursue their dreams off of the court. And we’ve been very successful doing that. And I’m looking forward. I start next month for my fourth year there and I’m going to go back to the women. I even turned down to man job opened up. I had no interest in doing it, been there and done that.

Mike Klinzing: [01:35:49] So what do you like about coaching the women?

What, what is it about coaching the women that you’ve really taken to and enjoy?

Lionel Garrett: [01:35:54] Well, it’s more cerebral. Men play above the rim women. Don’t going to be [01:36:00] loaded around, you know? and, and so the, the player development aspect is become so such a challenge and, and, and a focus. And it helped me become a better player development coach because, you know, they, they, they, they play with their extra women, play with it, you know, to the extras because they can’t just jump over people and doll.

You know, and, and because men guys do that, they’ll have more of a tendency to not be at a discipline of a player, you know, and even come to us with some of it. W w w a lack of fundamental skills already, you know, things that you should have already had, it came from, you know, your high school and different things, because coaches will just let you run, jump and dunk.

And so it became, you know, a good challenge with women. They wanted that they wanted to extra, they want the extra, if it’s almost like I’ll be crazy to be saying, is that it’s like a pure game, you know? And so I just, after all the games [01:37:00] that I played and seen and done and coach and everything, I just liked how this look and how I felt and, and just really learn to really respect, these young ladies because they work hard.

You know, they get it in. They love the game. You know, just as much as men do. And I think it was all things.

Mike Klinzing: [01:37:22] I could totally relate to it. I’ve coached both at the high school level. I’ve only coached the boys, but I spent a lot of time coaching, I have two daughters, spent a lot of time coaching them and I always have a blast when I’m coaching the girls teams.

Mike Klinzing: [01:37:35] you know, there’s, there’s something, there’s something different about the dynamic that makes it. Makes it fun and makes it different and it’s enjoyable. And I always no doubt it’s going to kick out. It

Lionel Garrett: [01:37:47] always get a kick out of it.

Mike Klinzing: [01:37:48] Alright. Last thing, Rebound Doctor, talk to me about what you’re doing with your individual player development business.

And kind of what you’re trying to get out of that, let people know how they can find out about what you’re [01:38:00] doing and then I’ll jump back in and we’ll start wrapping

Lionel Garrett: [01:38:03] things up. Okay. Well, ReboundDr.Net, that’s the website. I’m actually about to launch, a newer version of it, but we bought dr. That is got net it’s up right now.

And so anybody, can you go. Take a look at it and it tells me, but what happened is that five years ago, I want you to get into player development. And I had a young guy that I used to. Yeah, my practice is he will be in the gym. Before us. And I would notice him he’s over there working all this stuff by yourself.

I’m watching us. So one time I went over to him, I’m like, what you doing? And if you don’t want to be a player development coach, you know, I’ve been working with this guy who worked with that guy. So I was training. So. So he was so good. I said, well, teach me some things. So he’s my young guru and that’s when I got into it.

This is a different game. I’m doing, focusing on player [01:39:00] development, as opposed to developing practice plans for a T. so I kind of got into it then. And, I, I kept growing in it and so I wanted to would rebound. Doctor. My goal is to create a situation where, we’re I coached anybody, but I specialize and big players, you know, you might have a kid that is in the ninth grade high school, and he might be 65 and looking like he’s going to turn to six, eight.

And so the coach sometimes will just say, don’t you leave this block? You just stay under the basket. Well, I wanted to, you know, You know, my goal, you know, in the early going was just to tell players for our, how to big players learn how to do everything else, but do what they do best better by playing around the basket.

and so that became my focus and going into my fifth year of it. And I have had some unbelievable. clients, you know, coming up, I have a kid I’ll just [01:40:00] call him Mike from Mongolia, you know, 16 ways, 15 year old, he’s 16 years old. Now he’s been all over the world, planning everything just from Mongolia, absolute scene.

you know, and, I may even have something come to find out his dad played with the globe charters. You know, here’s my goalie and he’s seven foot tall. and so he was just, you know, and just on and on and on, I’ve been blessed to have great players. And so I learned a lot from my players. So the, the basic thing about rebound doctor is a player development are called a skill enhancement, is our goal.

And, I work it through coach up, coach up is my back office. And that’s a great company to do, do do that with and, I love it. And I’m looking forward to, I have about, you know, just, I haven’t even been marketing it, but they kind of carry it over. I have about 30 clients that I owe. About [01:41:00] 60 sessions.

Did I have to get off of offer my book? Cause if I get ever get back into the gym, you know, and we basically rebound doctors, skill program, and I focused on all the things, not just basketball, you know, just, you know, just how to live as well. And, and that’s why some of my younger clients stayed there the same day.

They love what we do. You know? I mean, it’s been a challenge with some of these kids because they want to do it all the time to pass on it, you know? and, and, and it’s not just been limited for me. Of course, I’ve had a lot of international, like I was saying a lot of international, about 50 50 with international kids as well.

I’ve just been blessed with that. So I keep it, At the rate of how my basketball career was and, you know, being on an international set, as well as vocal players and as for women and men, and it’s just wonderful. I love [01:42:00] doing it. it makes, it makes me, you know, that’s all I really want to do now.

And in fact, that’s the spinoff. If that’s just what I do at before, you know, it’s all about helping people get better.

Mike Klinzing: [01:42:11] Well, I know it’s great stuff. Before we wrap up, I want to give you one last opportunity. Share your social media, give people your website again, just so they can reach out to you, find you.

If they have questions, if they just want to say thanks. If they have a question, just let them know how they can find you. And then I will jump back in and we will

Lionel Garrett: [01:42:31] finish things up. Okay. Okay. Well, you can easily find me on Facebook. So as far as the social network, and then you just simply just search with my first and last name, Lionel Garrett.

My first name is spelled L I O N E L. And my last name is G A R R E T T. everything that you really, you know, they connect all those dots together would be my website, which is rebound doctor. And so. [01:43:00] It’s a little tricky, how I spelled doctor. so, but the website for that is of course www dot and then rebound dr.

Net. So you spell R E B O U N B DD r.net. So it’s two D’s at the end. So that’s rebound dr. Net Reb, O U N D D r.net.

Mike Klinzing: [01:43:28] Perfect. We’re going to put all that in the show notes. So if anybody’s listening to this in the car and they don’t have to crash into a telephone pole, trying to furiously scribble it down, We’ll get that all in the show notes so people can find it on a personal level. I can’t thank you enough for being willing to jump out with us tonight and spend, who knows how long here tonight talking. And it was just a pleasure for me on a personal level to get a chance to know you and hear your story.

And it’s always amazing to me, the connections. And the shared experiences that to people who have never met in the game of basketball can have, it’s just incredible to me and I can’t thank you enough for being willing to hop on the hoop as pod with Jason and I, and he’s off tending to his five and a half month old daughter right now. I’m sure he would pass along the same thing to you, but we really appreciate it. And to everyone who’s out there listening. Thanks. And we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.

LIONEL GARRETT – WILBERFORCE UNIVERSITY WOMEN’S ASSISTANT COACH, FOUNDER OF REBOUND DR. & FORMER HARLEM GLOBETROTTER – EPISODE 342

CHRIS OLIVER – FOUNDER OF BASKETBALL IMMERSION AND HOST OF THE BASKETBALL PODCAST (REBROADCAST) – EPISODE 671

LESSONS LEARNED ON RELATIONSHIPS, INTANGIBLES, & GROWTH MINDSET – EPISODE 606

“MENTALITY” PART 12 WITH UALBANY MEN’S BASKETBALL HEAD COACH DWAYNE KILLINGS – THE STRETCH RUN – EPISODE 600

COACH DAVID THORPE FROM TRUEHOOP.COM – EPISODE 595

PATRICK TOUHEY – AUTHOR OF “CREATE FOREVER TEAMMATES” – EPISODE 593

DUANE SHELDON – ATHLETIC DIRECTOR AT DUBLIN-COFFMAN (OH) HIGH SCHOOL & FORMER HIGH SCHOOL/COLLEGE HEAD COACH – EPISODE 591

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