JOHN SHULMAN – THE UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA IN HUNTSVILLE MEN’S BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 658

Website – https://uahchargers.com/sports/mens-basketball

Email – js0257@uah.edu

Twitter – @coachjshulman

John Shulman is the Head Men’s Basketball Coach at The University of Alabama in Huntsville. He has guided the Chargers to a 64-20 record in his three seasons at UAH including three berths in the NCAA DII Tournament.

Shulman arrived in Huntsville with an extensive resume of collegiate coaching experience including serving as the head coach at Tennessee Chattanooga from 2004 to 2013.  While at Chattanooga, the Mocs earned two NCAA tournament appearances following a pair of Southern Conference championships. The second winningest coach in Chattanooga history, Shulman also won four SoCon North Division championships.

In 2005, he was named as the top collegiate coach in Tennessee thanks to a season that included an NCAA tournament berth and Chattanooga’s first win in 80 years over in-state foe Tennessee.

Prior to taking over the top spot at Chattanooga, Shulman served as the team’s associate head coach from 2002 to 2004, and that came after stints as an assistant at Wofford, Tennessee Tech, and East Tennessee State.

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Grab your notebook as you listen to this episode with John Shulman, Head Men’s Basketball Coach at the University of Alabama in Huntsville.

What We Discuss with John Shulman

• Getting back into coaching on his own terms at UAH
• “I protected the culture and made sure that we got great kids with no red flags, no headaches.”
• “What I’ve learned is get kids that want to be in your program, get kids that want to work hard. Get competitors. And you can have fun doing it.”
• “We get guys who are skilled and who can pass, catch, think, and shoot the ball.”
• “If these guys are winning in high school, and these guys are winning on the AAU circuit, they’re used to winning and they will win in college. Guys who are used to winning win, guys who are used to losing lose.”
• Valuing conversations with high school coaches when it comes to recruiting
• Thinking you can change a player with bad habits
• “As an assistant, can you find kids that your head coach can coach?”
• Trusting your own eyes when it comes to recruiting and not worrying about anyone else’s opinion
• The experience coaching his son Max at UAH and finding the right balance between coach and father
• How texting his sons on game day led to a change in the way he coached
• “I am so much better right now because I knew I was a daggum disaster and a failure at one time in my career.”
• “We do great things on the court and we have great philosophy, offensively and defensively, but if you don’t have their hearts, you cannot coach them.”
• Making sure you don’t turn one loss into three
• “We all lose our mind when we start losing and we start ripping the kids. And it’s the opposite that works. They don’t need your help when they’re winning by 20, they need your help when you’re losing by 20.”
• The pressure kids face from social media
• “Once you become a coach, your words are powerful and you can ruin a kid and you can save a kid.”
• “The most important people are coaching middle school basketball or elementary school basketball. Those are the most important people out there. It ain’t college coaches, it ain’t NBA coaches. It’s those coaches that can really impact a life because it’s hard to change the views and attitudes of a 20 year old kid. It’s easier to change the views and attitude of a 12 year old kid.”
• “Once you stop focusing on winning and losing and start focusing on the kids, you accidentally will win.”
• “I’m going to catch you doing something good. I’m going to have an interaction with every one of our players every day.”
• “The journey is a lot better than the destination.”

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THANKS, JOHN SHULMAN

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TRANSCRIPT FOR JOHN SHULMAN – THE UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA IN HUNTSVILLE MEN’S BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 658

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by John Shulman for his second appearance on the Hoop Heads Pod. And actually, I guess if you count the round tables, John, this is about your 45th appearance or something.

So welcome back. Glad to have you. John is the head coach at the University of Alabama, Huntsville. Glad to have you back on the show.

[00:00:22] John Shulman: I think this appearance will be much better because it’s not an appearance. all right with no zoom. I look so much better just on audio. It’s a joke. It’s a face for radio, right?

Oh, absolutely. So boy, do I look good tonight? Just you’ll just no one will ever be able to see it, so it’s all good. I’m glad to be back on. I appreciate you having me. It’s always fun to talk ball.

[00:00:48] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely excited to dive into sort of where you’ve been, what you’ve been up to since we last talked and I know that after going back and kind of listening to that first episode to help prepare for this one, that the last time we talked, you had just taken over there at UAH and you talked about just how thrilled you were to be able to get back into coaching after your experience at Tennessee Chatanooga as a head coach at division one level.

Now you go and you’re coaching at the division two level. So maybe let’s start there big picture. What has been the greatest part? What has been the most fun part of getting back into the opportunity to be a head coach.

[00:01:29] John Shulman: Just being with the kids, being part of a team, being with the kids probably making amends to my screw ups at Chattanooga and figuring out at age 55, really what’s important in coaching and just making amends to what I did at Chattanooga and getting back and doing it again and doing it again with freedom and doing it again, how I wanted to do it and not feeling restraints on worrying about a contract and worrying about winning and going to the NCAA tournament.

And coaching’s hard, coaching on any level’s hard. But all of a sudden you’re at the division one level. And if you don’t go to the NCAA tournament people hate you. And boy, I tell you one thing, it’s just fun to be back coaching for the right reasons and not stressing about stuff that you don’t need to be stressing about.

[00:02:20] Mike Klinzing: So let’s go and talk a little bit about what are some things that you feel like you’ve approached in a different way than your first time as a head coach?

[00:02:31] John Shulman: Well, what’s nice is I end up in Huntsville, Alabama. My son is playing for us and so my son was already here and that’s why I knew so much about the program, but I get to… you can act like an idiot coach when your kid’s on the team.

And I watched their culture at UAH and that’s the biggest thing I did. I’ve protected the culture of Alabama, Huntsville. I protected the culture and made sure that we got great kids with no red flags, no headaches. And we may not be the most talented team in the country. We haven’t been the most talented team in the country and in three years and all of a sudden we’ve got three championship rings in three years and we’ve been to three NCAA tournaments in three years.

One got stopped for COVID. One was in a sweet 16, and one was the round of 32 and It just taught me and showed me that if you do things right, and you get great kids in your program that want to be in your program, that don’t cause a lot of headaches off the floor, you can do it in ways that I didn’t think you could do it at Chattanooga.

We went and got as good a talent as we could get, and that was their goal. And we had guys who could run and jump and dunk and unbelievable transfers from high major programs. And for whatever reason, it didn’t work. And it worked on occasion, but we went to two NCAA tournaments at Chattanooga, one for regular season titles, but it just didn’t feel right.

This feels very right. And what we’re doing here is we got great kids that want to be at school for the right reasons and want to be at UAH and it’s been so much fun. So I think that’s what I’ve learned is get kids that want to be in your program, get kids that want to work hard. Get competitors. And you can have fun doing it in a different way than I did it at Chattanooga.

[00:04:26] Mike Klinzing: How has your evaluation process on the recruiting side of this changed as a result of that differing philosophy? So what are you looking at? How are you going out and evaluating kids on, obviously the intangible things, clearly there’s a level of skill and talent that they have to play to be able to play at your level.

But what have you done to look at those intangible side of things, to make sure that you’re bringing in the right kids that are going to fit the culture that was already established and that you’ve continue to build on?

[00:04:54] John Shulman:  Well, let’s go back, go back real quick to skill. Sure. We beat Belmont my first year at Chattanooga, we beat Belmont at Belmont.

That’s not easy to do when Rick Byrd’s over there sitting with a sweater vest over on the other side. That’s not that ain’t easy to do. We beat Belmont at Belmont. We went one for 19 from the three point line. And that was no big deal. We couldn’t shoot a ball, but boy, we could defend and we could rebound the ball.

So, number one, that’s kind of, that’s how I coached. We were on the defensive end the whole time and we guarded and that’s who we were. And we about slipped up and beat Wake Forest in the NCAA tournament against Chris Paul by guarding and defending and rebounding. We still try to defend and rebound at Huntsville, but the one thing that we do is that I’ve learned and drank the Kool-Aid about is we get guys who are skilled and who can pass, catch, think, and shoot the ball.

So it really, if you can’t pass, catch, think, and shoot, you’re going to have a tough time playing at Huntsville. So on the recruiting trail, that’s number one. Is that’s changed. You may not be able to jump over the basket, but if you can make the basket, instead of jump over the basket, then I think we’ll be in better shape.

And so I have changed in my recruiting philosophy. I still like length. I still like size and because I still like to defend, and we are actually number one in the league in offensive field goal percentage, we are actually number one in the league and defensive field goal percentage this past year.

So we do try to do both on both ends. You know, we, we get skill, but I will say this intangibles show me somebody that is winning games and is used to winning and going to a state championship or going to a state tournament. I don’t really love guys. You know, if you’re that good, your high school or AAU team should not be 4 and 24.

If you’re that good, you, you should be able to help your team win a little bit. And if these guys are winning in high school, and these guys are winning on the AAU circuit, they’re used to winning and they will win in college. Guys who are used to winning win guys who are used to losing lose. And it’s not an amazing secret.

I would say you look at, I go back to you. Remember when Porter Moser had that Loyola, Chicago  and all of a sudden, everybody was like shocked and they made a run and I did, they, I think they got to the final four, actually. They did. Remember who was on that team and you can’t remember the guys who were on that team, but they, I think they had seven state champions on that team.

And it’s not this ain’t brain surgery. You get me guys who are used to winning a state championship. I promise you they’ll win in college. You get guys who are losing. They don’t even know how to win. Some guys just know how to win, to find those guys is not easy. But I think that’s what you have to look for is guys who are used to winning. I would say this, I was plead guilty, big time guilty to not always listening to the high school coach.

And coach boy, I tell you this, I, boy, I love your kid. Well, no, no you don’t yet. No, really. I love your kid, boy. He’s long and athletic and can really play coach. He’s going to drive you crazy. I know, but I can really, I can change him. I can coach him. I can change him, coach. He’s going to get to practice one minute before practices, his shoes untied, and you’re going to lose your mind.

Yeah, but I can really change him. He’s really talented. I take that kid in two weeks after he gets on campus, I call the coach and say you were right and I was wrong. And so we put a lot of stock in calling a high school coach and talking to the high school coach and finding out really, truly how that kid is.

And it’s hard because high school coaches don’t want to kill the kid  but they have to tell the truth. And we try to do as much research as we can. My IQ is really bad, but my EQ is good. And so I have a decent feel on what fits and who fits. And the other thing is, this is interesting.

Here is, can you coach that kid? It doesn’t matter how talented he is. Are you able to coach that kid? And, and a lot of teams like Huggins can coach kids that I can’t coach, I tried to coach some of them, I can’t coach those guys and very simple, like Steve Forbes, Steve Forbes can coach kids that I can’t coach anymore.

I thought I could coach ’em, but I can’t. And so you better find guys as an assistant, can you find kids that your head coach can coach? Can you coach all your kids because some of your kids, you can’t coach, if you can’t coach ’em hen why are they in your program?

[00:09:55] Mike Klinzing: It’s a great point. And I think sometimes it’s overlooked, right? Because. Coaches just go for talent. And they’re like, Hey, I get this guy in my program. And all of a sudden, I think that I’m going to wave this magic coaching wand so the guy’s going to comply and do everything that you want him to do. And we know that that unfortunately is not the case.

So the key clearly is getting the right type of guys in your program, right from the beginning. And once you have those guys in place, then it becomes much easier to maintain and to build the culture when you’re out on the road and you’re looking at players, and obviously you had a period of time there at U H where with COVID, it was difficult to do that.

But now that you’re able to get back and get in a gym and see players, how are you balancing? You mentioned talking to high school coaches and trying to get a feel for their players by having those conversations. How do you balance what you look at in AAU versus what you look at with a player in their high school season?

Is there a difference, something that you’re looking for or is it just all part of one bigger evaluation?

[00:10:53] John Shulman: I wish I was smart enough to look at different things. I’m just that ain’t who I am. I try my best to recruit with my own eyes. So, so I have to listen, we signed a kid Parks McLean from Mountain Brook High School in Birmingham.

Number one, they’re used to winning like these dudes don’t lose at Mountain Brook in Birmingham. All right. And number two, he’s got an amazing story. He fits me. All right. He fits me. He’s skilled, he’s 6’6”, he’s skilled and really shoots it and can pass it. And he’s a great kid. And he fits us. I think he’s got a chance to be really good.

He weighs about 112 pounds right now, but after a red shirt, he’s going gain a lot of weight and he’s going to be in great shape. He fits me. And then all of a sudden they tell me, coach, you do know he did not start for his high school team. Okay. Doesn’t matter. I saw him with my own eyes. We liked him, my assistant and I, you talked to Anthony Komara.

Anthony was with me at the time. And we both looked at him and said, good gracious. He’s got a chance to be good. I don’t care if a kid is starting for his high school team or his AAU team or whatever, if he fits your eye, And he fits you. Don’t worry about what other people think and say, I used to worry about what everybody said, I used to worry about rankings.

I used to, what do you think of them? Do you like them? I used to worry about that stuff. You turn 55, you quit worrying about crap like that and you stop worrying about that stuff. And you know, I go back and, and remember Mike, I got such bad, ADD who knows what we’ll talk about when we’ll talk about it during this podcast or whatever this is.

All right. Back to winning on the AAU level, I think it’s very important. You know, I go back to a kid named Justin Hare, playing for the Tennessee travelers and all he did in AAU was win. All he did in high school was win. He just didn’t win in high school. He won both places. He goes to Belmont and you know, what’s shocking.

They won and he won. And, and so I don’t think you can change. I think it’s easier to evaluate, just be honest, it’s easier to evaluate in high school in the high school setting, because that kid is, let’s say, he’s the dude on his team. You know, most AAU teams, you got about eight dudes on that team or nine dudes on that team.

And they’re all studs at their high school, but they’re all playing different roles on their AAU team. In high school, they’re going to play the role that they most feel comfortable in. And, and I think it’s easier to recruit in high school. But I think AAU, if a kid gets into kind of the wrong program and doesn’t play as much or doesn’t get enough shots, I think you can steal kids that way just to be honest.

But I still think you can find hidden gems. But I still think with that transfer portal, that’s great. You still a kid and boy, he’s a division one player or he’s a high major player and we get him at Chattanooga. We get him for a year and then he’s bolting after that second year.

And that’s no fun either. So get kids that fit your program that want to be in your program. And I think you can hold onto ’em longer and develop ’em longer. And they know what’s part of your program and want to be with your program. And I just, like I said, Mike, I’m 55.

I’m not 37. I was 37 when I took over at Chattanooga. And I’ve got a different outlook on things now,

[00:14:22] Mike Klinzing: Coaching your son. What’s that been like?

[00:14:26] John Shulman: It is, it has been unbelievable. It’s been incredible. It’s thank goodness. He just scored his 1000 point and we’ve won three championships.

Thank goodness. Because you got some dads that coach their kid and say, man, I’m tougher on my kid than any other kid. Well, that’s great. That’s really fair to your own kid. You know, you’re going to blast your kid and I’m tougher on my kid. That ain’t right.

And the other thing ain’t right. Well, I’m, I’m easy on my kid soft on my kid because he’s my kid that ain’t right either. So finding a balance is not the easiest thing in the world, but it’s important. My first year at UAH our leading scorer was a guy named Max Shulman. My son asked me how many games he started that year.

The answer would be zero. So he never started. I refused to start him. Is that fair to him? No, but that’s what I had to do and that’s what I needed to do. And but he was still led us in scoring, had a great year. The next year he started every game and he blew chunks. He was horrible and then this past year, I mean, my wife would look at me and it’s like, I got a great idea.

Will you take him out please? And it’s not an easy dynamic, but he listen He’s got three championship rings. He, he was our leader this year when led a group of 11 freshmen to an NCAA tournament and a championship in the tournament and the GSC. So he’s doing okay, but it’s not easy.

And now I don’t know if you know this, but we’re adding another Shulman to the mix where Tanner Shulman just transferred from Lipscomb University. And he’s going to be at UAH. So not only do I have to juggle one, I’m juggling two now. And it’ll be interesting, but I would just tell you this at the end of the day, no matter what happens, I, I get to spend every day, all day, we don’t practice all day, but I get spent every day and all day with my two oldest kids at work.

And I’m not the dad that didn’t. Kids. I’m the dad who, I mean, I cherish those moments with our boys every day. So I get to be with my kids every day, and that is a blessing. And I look at it as such and we have a blast together.

[00:16:50] Mike Klinzing: That’s really cool that that’s the attitude. And that’s the way that you guys have approached it because obviously you know better than anybody that you can walk a fine line there with not only with yourself and your son, but the relationship between your son and their teammates.

And then you have obviously the outside influences that you hope that you can keep out of your locker room and that you can keep out of the, the minds of your players. But those things are always there. So to be able to walk that line and have it be. A positive for everybody involved, I think is something that it’s not, it’s not easy to do.

I’ve, we’ve talked to lots of coaches who have been able to navigate it successfully, but then there’s quite a few that haven’t. And I think sometimes it’s just a matter of figuring out, Hey, what works for us? And it sounds like you guys have been able to do that. And as a result, it’s been a great experience for your son.

And it’s also been a great experience for you.

[00:17:45] John Shulman: That’s what it’s all about. Listen, when, when you get a chance to watch your kid walk up that ladder and cut down those nets, that’s awesome. You feel that good about himself? Are you kidding me? I mean, that’s been great.

There was only one awkward moment. It was funny in practice. We do a lot of talking in practice and we start practice with a lot of shooting and our coaches step out there as passers. So our players are yelling at the coaches, Hey, coach, or a manager or something.

And that’s what they’re yelling and screaming. So one of our guys went down. One of ’em, I don’t know, one of our guys on the road or something. And I stepped in as a passer and, and Max came by and, and he had no idea. What to say to me I mean, because he has never said in practice, Hey dad, right? Yes, dad, we need to do this dad or, Hey dad, what do you think about this?

Or dad? Is that the right cut? Or? He’s never said that before. And so he threw me the ball. He was like, Hey, coach, dad. He just was like, he had no idea what to say. I didn’t have any idea. I was like, will somebody take my spot and get me out of this awkward moment please? But it’s been, we were fortunate enough.

You remember? I coached him in high school many years ago. Yeah. So, so we had a good feel on how to pull it off. It’s not like he’s eating dinner at our house. He eats dinner, like any other college kid at his parents house when he’s down on money or he needs a good meal. And he was like, Hey man, can I come home for dinner tonight?

Well, I guess you need something washed or something for his mom to do or something. That’s the only time I really hear from him. During the week besides practice, but it’s been a lot of fun and it’s been something that a lot of people don’t get an opportunity. So I’m going cherish it and, and not look at it as a negative.

I’m going to cherish it and be pretty proud that I get to coach my boys. As you said.

[00:19:43] Mike Klinzing: I think just the opportunity to be able to spend that amount of time. You think about my daughter is a senior, and she’s going to go away to school next year. And obviously your, your family dynamic at that point changes, you’re subtract.

You’re subtracting somebody who’s been around for 18 years. You’re subtracting them from the family. So I’m curious to see how that’s going to go. And you’re getting to get a little extension on that and get to spend some time and not only do that, not only get an extension, but to be able to do it within the confines of the game of basketball, which obviously your family loves and is a really important part of what you guys do on a day in and day out basis to be able to extend it and to be able to spend that time, not just as a family, but to spend time as a family.

With basketball. It’s hard to imagine that it could get much better than that for you guys. And I’m sure your I’m sure your wife enjoys. Watching you guys all work together to be able to have success.

[00:20:34] John Shulman: Listen, my wife was the baller in the family. You don’t know that my wife was freshman of the year in the at Tennessee Tech and player of the year at East Tennessee state in the Southern conference.

So she was the baller of the family. The only reason that all of ’em are any good is because of her, she gave the good genes all up so,

[00:20:53] Mike Klinzing: So the wife is always the key that’s always the key genetically. It’s interesting how much the wife, how much weight she carries in terms of producing a good athlete.

[00:21:02] John Shulman: There’s no question about that. So she watches a game different than most wives and coaches what most moms and most coaches, wife, she watches the game different. She was like, can you all guard a soul, please? Good God. And so we try to carry on a normal conversation at home and, and but we don’t take, listen, I don’t take Max has had one bad practice that, that we got a little funky in about six, seven years of me coaching him.

So it’s all good. It’s just coach is not easy as you know, and I will say this I think having kids and coaching your own kids will make you a better coach, just to be honest. You know, you deal with your own son. You don’t want to demean your own son and embarrass your own son, but you also realize you’ve got 14, 15 other young men out.

There are also sons of other men and sons of other women, and they are a son of a parent. And so I think you become a better coach having kids and, and letting your kids go through this. And I tell this story, and this is something that happened to me, Mike. I don’t even know if you want me to tell it, but I’m going to, before every game, before every game for my kids, when I wasn’t coaching them, what would I do on game day?

Like Tanner was at Lipscomb this past year. I’d text Tanner Shulman, and I wished him luck is game day. Hey man, love you Tan. Good luck. Have a great night tonight. Be a great teammate. Really proud of you. Enjoy the moment. Have a great evening. All right. That’s what parents do, right? Yep. I mean, you would do the same thing.

So I text Tanner. This was Saturday. Our team was six and seven at the time in, in league play this past year. And I text Tanner from Florida that morning. And I text him that. And I was like what’s weird. I haven’t text Max that. And why haven’t I text Max that because he plays for us.

Why would a coach ever text his. Players and wish ’em good luck. . And so I text Max that morning and I was like, Hey, listen, man, I just want to tell you, I love you. Proud of you. Enjoy the moment today. Be a great teammate have a great game, good luck and, and enjoy it. And then I went, well, if I text Max, then I love the rest of these kids.

Like they’re my children. I don’t know why wouldn’t I text all the kids. So one by one, I text them. I text each kid before each game and all of a sudden they started texting me back. Hey coach, let’s get this done. Let we got this day, coach let’s do this and I ain’t going to lie to you. It changed our, it changed our season.

It changed how I coach, it changed everything about me. And so I don’t know if we found the secret sauce and, and I’m just going to tell you, you can only be who you are as a coach. You know, I worked for a maniac. He’s still living. He’s 87 years old, Alan Laforce. He, if you ever missed a free throw, he would rip your Cocos after you missed that free throw

I thought that’s how you supposed to coach because he was my mentor. I thought that’s how you did it. And I’ve changed as a coach. Probably might just be honest. It’s the first time I’ve liked myself as a coach in my career. And it it’s hard as coaches, everybody knows it. It’s hard sometimes to like yourself as a coach.

Did I handle that situation right? Did I, and I didn’t for many years. And so that’s why the first thing I said is kind of the redemption of becoming a college coach again. And yeah, we won at Chattanooga. We won, we went to two NCAA tournaments won four regular season titles, but I really didn’t feel great about it and feel like I did a very good job. Now I’m feeling like we’re doing and coaching kids, how we’re supposed to.

[00:25:07] Mike Klinzing: Do you think that the biggest change in terms of your approach to coaching? Clearly, I don’t think you would say is on the floor with basketball philosophy or how you’re defending the screen a role or what you’re doing from a scheme standpoint.

What I hear you saying is that more of what your development was as a coach or your change as a coach was related to the psychological approach of how you’re dealing with players? Cause when I think about what you just said, talking about your son and why, why am I, why am I not texting my son? Or why, how am I thinking about it in terms of evaluating myself when it comes to what I’m saying to players, how I’m dealing with players, what I’m doing with them, it’s different when it’s your son and it, to me, it adds, I hear you saying that it added a layer of thought process to.

Hey is what I’m doing, the right thing to get the most out of my players. Cause obviously if the kid’s not your son, that layer of, Hmm. I wonder how my son’s going to react to this is gone. So you think it’s that psychological piece? It’s that figuring out what makes a kid tick? Is that the area that you think is probably been the one that has the, that you’ve made the most improvement in?

[00:26:20] John Shulman: Well, I’ll just say this Christmas or Thanksgiving. I get, I get Christmas wishes now from our players. Hey coach, have a great day. Merry Christmas. All right. I appreciate it, man. Send it back or whatever. There were a couple years at Chattanooga. It was crickets and, and I’m a relationship guy. And it was crickets at Christmas and Thanksgiving.

And on special days if you have a really good bond you would be texting each other or calling each other. And I was getting crickets on those days at Chattanooga. And that told me very simple, well, I’d done a really crappy job. And I said the right things, but I’d done a really crappy job.

And absolutely, I listen at Bilas’ camp. I saw a kid kid named Marcus Watts who played for us at Chattanooga. He was up at Bilas camp. I mean, this is two weeks ago. And I’m just going to tell you, I don’t think I’ve ever seen him where I don’t apologize to him for just doing a crappy job with. And not being the mentor that I was supposed to be.

And none of us are perfect. But like we ask our players to either win or learn like Nick Saban don’t waste a failure. I didn’t waste failures. I did not waste failures. And, and I am so much better right now because I knew I was a daggum disaster and a failure at one time in my career.

And so change. Change and get better and learn from your mistakes and treat people better and treat those kids better. I was talking to a guy the other day and I was talking about a kid. We got Jack Kostal. All right. And, and I didn’t love Jack Kostal. When we got him, he was kind of a pretty guy and a cool guy.

And, and I told this guy that I was talking to, I said, I am in love with Jack Kostal. I am so proud of cost. He is. So he is grown up. I am so proud. I love that kid. And I looked at the guy I was talking to. I was like, hold on a second. He said, what you doing? I said, I’m calling Kostal. I said, what for? I said, I’m going to tell ’em I love him.

So I just picked up the phone on a summer afternoon. I was like, Kostal. Yeah, coach. I just want to tell you, man, I love you. I’m really proud of you. And I love. I love you too, coach. I just think it’s, I think it’s the most important thing that there is now. And we do great things. Now we do great things on the court and we have great philosophy, offensively and defensively, but if you don’t have their hearts, you cannot coach them.

And, and if you have their brains, but I think it all revolves and goes through the heart and maybe I’m wrong, but that’s just who I am. We were four and six in the league after 10 games. And at UAH, you, you don’t go four and six in a league. But we had 11 freshman we had a great excuse.

We had 11 freshmen, we returned five points from the NCAA tournament game where we beat Lee in the round of 32. We returned five points from that team. And that’s what we were stuck with this year. And so we were four and six in league and Hey man, hang in there, man. We’re all right. Instead of going crazy, we went to biology to eat pizza and went and watched American Underdog as, as a team and we had a great time.

Well, that four and six turned into I think we went eight and two on the way out, if we did, we were four and six, we went eight and two, the rest of the way. We end up hosting the first round of a conference tournament. Won by 25, won the semis by 14 or something and won the championship, cut down the nets.

And I’m telling you one of the biggest I used to be. I said this at Bilas camp. I was the best. You don’t understand, Mike, you’re talking to one of the, I was the best in the country at one thing. And you say what? Like recruiting no defensive field goal. No off it. No, I was the best in the country at turning one loss into three.

I was the best, we would lose a game and I would fret about it and I would go nuts with our kids and, and flip out, and that would turn into two losses and then I’d lose my mind. Because now we’ve lost two in a row. And then here comes that third. And after that third loss, I was like, oh my God.

What, whoa, this is slipping out of control. And so I was great at that and listen Saban. If you would get Saban on this podcast, I would be in love with you, Mike, because I think that’s, you’re throw, you’re throwing down a challenge

[00:31:15] Mike Klinzing: You’re throwing down a challenge for me.

[00:31:16] John Shulman: I think he’s the best.

And I say this for this reason, when things are going wrong, what do most coaches do? When a game, when things are going wrong, what do most coaches do? They start ripping their kids and they start blasting their kids. And when things are going right, we pat ’em on the butt. Hey man. Great job.

Great job. Well, Saban, I think is the only coach at any sport that I watch that does the opposite. When they’re winning, he is ripping their tail. They don’t need affirmation when they’re winning. And when they’re losing, he is putting his arm around him and say, hang in there, man, hang in there. But we all lose our mind when we start losing and we start ripping the kids.

And it’s the opposite that works. They don’t need your help when they’re winning by 20, they need your help when you’re losing by 20 and helping them is not ripping their tail at that time.

[00:32:16] Mike Klinzing: Coaches so often get that. I think confused. And I do it’s, it’s something that it’s changing a little bit.

I think in the profession from talking to coaches all across the country at all different levels, I think you’re starting to see more of what you just described and less of the coach that when things aren’t going well, it’s just tearing kids down and people are coming to the realization that that’s not the way to get the most out of your players.

How many guys, if you go back to the era when you and I were growing up and you already described it with coach LaForce.  Did, did he ever tell you he loved you?

[00:32:55] John Shulman: That just wasn’t the way masculine. That was not masculine. Right? That was exactly. That was em, you couldn’t do that.

Let me just tell you something. Our kids, our team, like all teams and all college age kids in high school. They are a mental disaster. their mental health is a disaster right now. They’ve been through COVID. They’ve been by themselves. They’ve been jerked here and jerked there and they don’t know what’s going on and you get on social media and I have three boys.

But, I mean, if you’re a girl and you don’t look unbelievable in your bathing suit, I’m not on Instagram. My manager shows me his all right. But if you don’t look perfect,  then something’s wrong with you. And I’ve got a 16 year old boy, and I mean, if you don’t have five offers by the time you’re a sophomore, then, I mean, you’re a loser and, and the mental health of these kids through social media, it’s not even fair.

It ain’t even right. And then the parents fall into it and you fall and you are guilty of it. And you think that a coach pitch baseball game at eight years old and your son struck out and, and, and grounded out to first, that’s going to, that would determine his future. That’s incorrect.

It will not determine his future, we all are guilty of it. Me too. I’m still mad that Max’s team got beat by Bradley continental in a Dick’s youth baseball game. I’m still not over it, but that didn’t determine, thank God. He wanted to go to Wilson McClellan’s house to spend the night, or I would’ve killed him, but we all try to grow.

It’s just there’s something to getting a little older. And for guys finally maturing at age 55, because it takes a little time to help guys mature a little bit, but hopefully we’re doing that. But the mental health of these kids is not good at this moment. So we can ruin the game for ’em.

Like I said, we can help ’em love the game. And you have to be careful because I said this at Bilas. Once you become a coach, it doesn’t matter if you’re certified. It ain’t certified. If you’re good or you ain’t good. Once you become a coach, your words are powerful and you can ruin a kid and you can save a kid.

And we’re all probably guilty of both, but just think about that. Think about ruining a kid. And that’s why I apologize to Marcus every time I see him, because I did not help him become a better player or a man, but you know, there’s always time to apologize and it was always time to grow and always time to learn.

[00:35:45] Mike Klinzing: I think that’s a great point that you just brought up. When you talk about your ability to lift a kid up or your ability to tear a kid down. And I think that goes to. Whether you’re coaching in the NBA, whether you’re coaching at the college level, whether you’re a high school coach, whether you’re a third grade coach, I can’t even tell you John, over the course of time that I’ve been involved in the game.

The number of parents that with my youth basketball camp, parents who have come up to me over the years and just saidhave to little Johnny was playing in this league and he was in fourth grade and the coach just said such and such and such to him, and now he just doesn’t want to play anymore. Or he used to really love basketball.

And now because of this, he doesn’t want to play. And you hear those stories. And here you’re talking about a kid who’s eight, nine years old. That just by something that a coach said, or a coach did, has totally turned the kid off to a game that who knows again, where they would’ve ended up or what they would’ve ended up doing.

But even if they’re just a player who, when they’re 30 still loves basketball and wants to play in a men’s league, like to me. That’s immensely valuable.

[00:36:47] John Shulman: No, we start talking about it’s crazy. No, we’re sick. We’re coaches, coaches have to understand that. And we all get competitive in a fourth grade game and we say something we shouldn’t have said.

And you know, my, my brother who is Vice Mayor of Nashville, I always thought like, he is the worst basketball coach. He would take these. He would take, he always wanted to coach his girls. So he’d have this third grade. He had the third grade girls team up at Nashville and I promise you they would get dismantled.

But the biggest thing was they had fun and they would always, he would have good snacks after the game. And the girls had fun. That’s key right there. I mean, God forbid a child having fun, playing a game of basketball because it’s not about, we’re just in a weird time with our society and, and it ain’t good. And, we can change it one by one, the starfish story one by one. We can change it, but it’s going to be one by one. We had our camp, we had a little day camp last week and we got a couple emails saying, listen my daughter feels like she is being seen for the first time in a long time.

And I was like, wow. Yes. You know my son has got a smile on his face for the first time in a long time. And it’s hard being a parent. It’s hard being a parent, but those kids are really struggling right now. And I would tell you this coaching third and fourth and fifth graders.

And I mean, coaching in college is really cool. Okay. You’re not, we’re helping lives. We’re not changing lives. All right. But you coach a seventh grade basketball team. I promise you, you are changing in impacting a life. Now it may not be as cool to do that than be a college coach or coach in NBA and all that stuff.

But I’m just going to tell you being a seventh grade basketball coach or an eighth grade basketball coach. Man. Oh man, you talk about the most important, the most important people are coaching middle school basketball or elementary school basketball. Those are the most important people out there. It ain’t college coaches, it ain’t NBA coaches.

It’s those coaches that can really impact a life because it’s hard to change the views and attitudes of a 20 year old kid. It’s easier to change the views and attitude of a 12 year old kid. And that’s why it is so important those formative years. So I blast coaches Bilas camp. Hey, I’m just a junior high coach.

Just what do you mean? You’re just a junior high coach. How many guys you got on your team? 15. Well, I got 15 on my team too. so we got the same number of guys on the team. You changed 15 lives, I’ll change 15 lives and we’re equal. We’re not, I’m not better because I’m a college coach. I got lucky a long time ago and got put in this spot, but I was a JV basketball coach first.

And boy, let me just tell you something. Matt Crowder and David there, and Allen brown and Scott Wildman and Pat Harmon and Steven Wall, those kids that I coached JV basketball, it meant something to ’em and I changed their life.

[00:40:04] Mike Klinzing: I think you have to really look at that and have an understanding of what you just said.

If you’re a coach at any level, that you can have an impact on the players that are in front of you, it doesn’t matter if it’s a second grade rec team. It doesn’t matter if it’s a middle school team, a college team and NBA team. I think the fact is that you can, when you stand in front of those kids and they’re looking at you and you’re their coach, and they’re looking up to you and you have the ability to either lift them up or you have an ability to tear them down.

And I think I always feel like that the opportunity to do that with the game of basketball. And have an impact on kids’ lives. To me, that’s one of the most important things in my entire life is the fact that I get to use basketball, to be able to have a positive impact on kids. So I get to do it with something that I love and not everybody gets to do that.

Not everybody gets to choose a path where they can have an impact on people and do it in such a way that they also get to interact with the game of basketball, which has been so good to me in my life. And I just feel like you’re paying it back. And so it’s important for coaches, no matter what you sport you coach, no matter what level you coach at to remember that.

you you’re having an impact on kids and you may not remember the things that you say to ’em, but you can guarantee that they remember the things that you say to them.

[00:41:21] John Shulman: There’s no question about that, Mike. Not, nobody cares honest to God. Nobody cares. Alright, let me ask something. Do you know who we beat in the first round of the NCAA tournament this past year? Mike?

[00:41:33] Mike Klinzing: No, not unless I have the website pulled up in front of me.

[00:41:33] John Shulman: So you, do you know who we beat in the championship game? The GSE tournament? No. Do you know who we beat in oh nine to go to the NCAA tournament to play UConn? No. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. The only thing that they care about is themselves. They don’t care, yet we all get caught up in winning and losing games and thinking that the world, I would tell you a story we’re at Elon. We have to beat Elon to win the north division title one year when I was at Chattanooga and I fretting about this game. Oh my God. The biggest game in the history of mankind, Chattanooga verse Elon at Elon.

You remember that game in, in 2008, you don’t remember that game, this huge game, 2008 in February. Nobody remembers that game. All right. Nobody cared about that game. And, and, but I thought the world revolved around me and that we won or lost games. All right. Fast forward, by the way, we did win that game.

All right. But fast forward. All right. I was out of coaching. I was in Chattan. This struck me and hit me right. The face. And I was working in the business world and will Wade had taken over at Chattanooga and, and I was working with some high level business guys and, and Chattanooga got upset at home by VMI.

And that didn’t happen. And, and I was kind, yeah, man. Yeah. I mean, they they’re struggling without John Shulman at the helm. Alright. And so we had this big meeting and all these higher ups were in there. And  I looked around to these guys. They were cool guys, man. They knew basketball.

They knew sports. And I just kind of popped up. I was like, Hey, Hey man, how about Chatanooga last night? You know what all those guys said to me, , you know what they said that Chatanooga had just gotten beat by VMI at home that did not happen. And I looked at all those. How about Chatanooga last night?

You know what they all said to me? What, what about. What happened? Did something happen? No. Yeah, they got beat at home by VMI. They got upset at home, man. Hey. And they all looked at me like they were like, yeah. Okay. And they started talking about something else and I was like, you mean, nobody really cares you mean every, yeah.

I thought people went to work just to talk about me and how bad of a coach I was, they don’t care. So what I’m saying is that once you stop focusing on winning and losing and start focusing on the kids, you accidentally will win. If you take care of your business the right way with the kids, they, they, no one cares.

I mean, the kids want to win and you want to win and your alums want to win. But if you chase winning you, ain’t going to win. I chased it at Chattanooga and we won some and we lost some. I haven’t chased it here at UAH I’ve chased the process. I’ve chased Pieology and going to watch American Underdog. I’ve chased the kids and told ’em that.

I say, listen, my fault. I love you. I care about you. Let let’s hang in there. And, and I mean, we’re 64 and 20 in three years with three championship rings and three NCAA tournaments without chasing wins. We had camp last week. We had 15 kids over to house for a taco bar and we ate tacos and then we got Krispy cream donuts.

And I spent, I had meetings this past year, 10 minute meetings with each kid that we could not talk about basketball. What do you want to be when you grow up? What do you want to do? What do you want to be? Hey guys, want to be a farmer, had no idea, just getting to know the kids, I was really good at Chattanooga.

I got to know the good players. All right. And that’s a shame. That’s sick. I have to know the good players. How about the guys who weren’t playing every day? All right. So I make sure during stretching, or whenever we’re doing, or during shooting drills or whatever, I will stay down on one end sometimes too long, but I will make sure that you finally made a, a corner three, Mike, and I’m going, Hey man, good job, Mike, wait, shoot that ball, Mike.

And, and I’m going to say your name. I’m going to say something positive and I’m going to catch you doing something good. I’m going to have an interaction with every one of our players every day. And you say, well, that’s coaching. That’s what you’re supposed to do. Well, I would doubt that every coach in the country does, and I would say they stepped out on that court.

And if you can’t help him win, then probably going to bypass talking to you a whole lot because you can’t help’em. That child has a parent and a dad and a mom or a grandparent or an aunt and uncle, and that child has to be valued and that child has to be seen. And those rest of those players are looking at how you treat that other kid too.

And so that’s why I’m saying a 55 year old version of me is a lot better than a 37 year old version of me.

[00:46:44] Mike Klinzing: Take that one step further when you’re talking about whether or not people are thinking about what you’re doing or whether or not you win or lose. And I even take it to the level of, I don’t even remember games I played in whether I won or lost or how many points I scored or whatever.

And you think back to how important that was or when I was coaching, you think about just the amount of preparation that you would put in and how big of a game that was, and you go back and you think. I don’t even remember. Okay. So we played in a conference when I was a player over the course of my career.

I might have played a team. If we played him in the conference tournament, I might’ve played him nine or 10 times in the course of my career. Do any, I don’t remember any of those games. Like people say, Hey, do you remember this game?

[00:47:29] John Shulman: I don’t know, but okay. But let ask what do you remember?

[00:47:32] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. You remember the feeling, I mean, you there’s, I mean, obviously there’s certain games in.

[00:47:35] John Shulman: I do remember you remember the memories, you remember the friends. Absolutely. You remember the relationships, right? Exactly. We won 23 games, cut down the nets, went to the NCAA tournament round in 32 this year. You know what we did on our little banquet? We watched a highlight tape, one shining moment and I teared up.

That’s what I do. I cried during American idol. So that’s what I do. All right. But after the highlight tape, you know what we did. Okay. We watched a blooper tape of our team. We were a disaster. We laughed at it, that’s awesome, eight minute blooper tape of ourselves. And then each kid for our banquet, each kid stood up and I said, give your most fun, two or three moments of the season.

It wasn’t cutting down the debts. It was one, it was one kid, said, coach. I remember after the game at Lee, when we barely got beat, we didn’t barely get beat, but, but we got pounded up at Lee. And I remember a few things that you said to all of us that, that I remember that. Well, I said, I remember it so well, I was scared y’all weren’t going to come back after Christmas and we laughed about it and, and that it is just part of the journey.

Listen, I’m still on the journey. And if my destination was Chattanooga and trying to go to the NCAA tournament, I promise you, the journey is a lot better than the destination. The journey’s fun. The destination, you go, God, I mighty, I’ve done all this to get to here. The journey’s fun. The like the process is fun.

The games aren’t as much fun. The journey is a blast and the memories are blast and that’s what we’re all supposed to be doing. And we forget. And that’s why we need the Amy Shulman’s of the world. My wife, who will bust my tell in, I don’t, I don’t really like your attitude. Deny the tech came. Yes, ma’am and we’ll fix that attitude up.

You need people to hold you accountable. And I have that and Have that with assistants, you don’t need yes men with your assistants. And you have to have great chemistry, but it’s about the journey and you know that, and I think hopefully, maybe this podcast can help other guys figure it out.

[00:49:47] Mike Klinzing: Do you have a guy on your team that does a coach Shulman impression that you know of?

[00:49:51] John Shulman: Listen, man, who’s got the best one. Who’s got the best one on your team. They all do. They’re they’re all pretty good. They’re all pretty good with it. And then I’ll bust their chops and I’ll accidentally walk in that film room and somebody’s saying something and I’m like, Hey man, but it’s, it’s funny and I absolutely remember this.

We’re getting ready to play wake force in the NCAA tournament. My first year as a head coach at Chattanooga we’re in, we’re in Cleveland, Ohio, we’re in the hotel. We just got done with the meal and here we’re eating and I am literally about to vomit. We’re playing on CBS the next day. And I’m like, oh my God, well, I forget something down in the, in the film room.

So I walked down the film room and about six or seven of the guys are down there. And, and I hear ’em laughing and cutting up. They are doing coach Schulman impressions and blistering my balls. I don’t even know if I can say that on this pocket, but they are, and it is hilarious. And I walked in and I was like, continue, please.

And I sat down there and we laughed and laughed and laughed just like we did at our banquet. We do a little banquet, a little different, we don’t invite other people in it’s just us. And, and everybody’s got two or three stories and we did this kind of started accidentally during COVID. We were down in Florida getting ready to play the NCAA tournament.

They canceled the tournament. We went to a Japanese steakhouse and I said, Hey, man, just tell me your, your best memory or your two best memories. And boy, we laughed. We cried. We did, we had a blast and that’s what it’s about. It’s not about who got the MVP award at your banquet. We don’t even give awards. All right.

What we do is we talk and we have a blast together and we talk about the memories, celebrate the process, right? I think that’s really one. The process is a lot better than the dagum games as a coach that I would remember be working on shell drill than trying to get a stop with two seconds to go.

And somebody flips in one behind his head. It ain’t right. I’d rather just go run on a baseline for that one. But you know, the process, listen, coaching. And I’ve said this before, and we just talked about it as Bilas. If you can do something, if you can think you can do something other than coaching, you need to do it.

You need to do. Because coaching is hard and, and coaching to me has not, has never been a job. Coaching is a calling and that’s what I’m supposed to do. I remember being in Lexington, Kentucky seeing a cover of a book and, and like, it was Pitino’s book, born to coach. I think it was the name of born to coach.

I hadn’t read a whole lot of books. Just be honest, Mike. But I think it said born to coach and I was like, man, that’s me. I was born to coach. I really feel like I was born to coach and now I was supposed to do it. And I feel like I was a failure for many years. And now my thing, I just think I’m a little bit better than I was.

I haven’t reached my fullest potential. I try to learn every day, but I think as coaches, we still have to get better and better and better. And I don’t think we ever arrive and get to our fullest potential. I don’t know if we ever do.

[00:53:03] Mike Klinzing: Last question. What do you love about coaching at the division two level?

What’s special about division two.

[00:53:09] John Shulman: Well , I do realize that not everybody’s looking at our scores on the ticker. It’s funny. We we’ll go play west Alabama. And if we played Western Carolina, when I was at Chattanooga, boy, we’d leave the night before we’d spend the night.

We’d spend the whole day in the hotel. I mean, we, you talk about wasting a lot of time and a lot of money we wait a lot of time and a lot of money, we go play west Alabama we literally get on a bus, eat something on the way, go down there and play the game, get back on a bus and come back home and, and there’s something innocent.

And there’s something good about that. There’s some, we have a division two rule that we have to take off like seven or eight days over Christmas. It’s mandatory. Have like a eight day dead period or a seven day dead period. I forgot what it is. Seven or eight day dead period. Over Christmas that you have to take off.

Well, oh my gosh. I mean, that’s, I was like, man, that’s not even right. Those not even fair. man. Lemme just tell you something it’s been a blast. Yeah. We get to like, like it is depressing practicing on Christmas night. I did it for many years. It’s depressing playing on the 23rd of, of December and trying to figure out, you have to get your kids something for Christmas.

Listen, nobody cares. Now I get to spend seven or eight days just hanging out with my family and, and, and just having fun and doing Christmas things, my family and I promise showing you deathbed you ain’t going to wish that you, you won another championship. Oh man. If we could have just beaten Davidson one more time with MacKillop there.

I wasn’t going to do that anyway. all that wasn’t happening, but you, you don’t wish for one more opportunity with, to try to win a championship. You, you want to spend time.  I think division two makes you realize it’s important, but it’s not the end all be all to win a Christmas tournament in Puerto Rico over Christmas.

It’s more important to be with your family. And so I’ve really enjoyed it. I’ve enjoyed the kids. We, we still, we, I mean, come on, man. We, we, we got four hours on the court. Same as division one in the preseason. We got four hours in a weight room and same as division one, we practice as hard. There’s we have scrimmaged as, I won’t say who, but we scrimmaged two division ones in my three years at, at UAH and, and we’ve won both of ’em in double figures.

So there’s not a whole lot difference between the talent level as D one and, and, and D two, just be honest, especially with all the portal. That’s ridiculous. I mean, we got guys out of our league going to high major programs and we sat there and beat. And I’m going there.

Ain’t a whole lot difference anymore between the high level D two programs and mid, mid major division one program.

[00:56:13] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. The talent level is definitely spread out a lot more and the transfer portal just makes it even more. I don’t know if confusing or just so much more fluid from year to year where guys are at and what they’re doing.

John, I want to be respectful of your time as always a lot of fun to talk to you ton of great insights before we get out. Just share how people can reach out to you. Learn more about your program. If you want to share. Website, social media, email, whatever you feel comfortable with. And then we’ll go from there.

[00:56:38] John Shulman: Listen, if I was smart enough to know all that stuff and know my idea,

[00:56:44] Mike Klinzing: I know your Twitter.

[00:56:45] John Shulman:  I don’t even know that Brian Benator who’s at West Florida made it for me a long time ago. I never thought I could even tweet something. And my kids like dad, you have to do that. And so no, but our website, I mean just u.com or U athletics.com and, and but, but my email address is John.Shulman@uah.edu. Listen, I was a JV basketball coach at one time, so I’m not real secretive with my phone. My cell phone is (423) 667-8101  The best thing I think I do now is I really want to help younger coaches just be honest, Mike I’m a, nobody, I’m a JV basketball coach from Johnson city, Tennessee.

And I got lucky because of Alan LaForce, invested time in me and help me and help me achieve my dreams. Very simple. I don’t, I don’t live my dreams without, Alan LaForce at east Tennessee state and Richard Johnson, who is now the ad at Wofford. I do not live my dreams without those people. Well, how would you like to be one of those people?

How would you like to be somebody that helps somebody else live their dream? And I think that’s our respons. And I take that as a great responsibility to try to help our players live their dream and also help our young coaches. I am so flipping proud of Anthony Komara. Who’s been a guest on for you. Is he now the head basketball coach at Manalo.

And I’m very proud of that. He gets an opportunity to live his dream. And hopefully when I hire a coach here sometime here soon that I will give that person an opportunity to live their dream. And that’s what we get to do. And, and that you talk about impacting people that’s called impacting people and I’m trying to pay it forward because I got a gift in a major league way, or I’m not on this podcast.

I’m, I’m maybe the head coach at university high in John city by now. I, I probably would’ve spent 30 years as the JV coach, but I’m very appreciative of the people in my life. Who’ve helped me.

[00:59:06] Mike Klinzing: That’s well said. And I think when you start talking about the impact that you can have, yeah. You can have an impact on your players, but here you are having an impact on your staff.

And I just think that that’s really what it’s all about using the game of basketball to make the world, to make people better. And when we can do that, that’s just a gift that we get to do it every day. And John, I cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us. I know you got a big team camp coming up.

[00:59:30] John Shulman: Yeah, we got camp. So I’d like to say one thing, Mike, I’ve never, I hadn’t said this to yet period, and I don’t think a lot of people know this. Because I’m on that that little other deal that you do and I’m sending in little two or three minute. Spots on that. What do you call that again? The round table.

The round table. All right. Yep. I’ve been on that round. How long you been doing that for?

[00:59:49] Mike Klinzing: Let’s see, we’re at number 42. So you divide that by 12. We’re at like almost getting up on four years, close three and a half.

[00:59:55] John Shulman: Well, I’m just going to be honest to you with you. I, I watch that video every month and, and I get so flipping juiced up because I know I’m going to win the book this month.

I’m going to win the book. And he and Mike puts in all of our names who contribute and he puts it in the bowl or whatever, and he pulls your name out and you win a book for that, for that month. Now I don’t even read.

[01:00:19] Mike Klinzing: So I’m how many of you, how many of you won? You’ve won at least once. I know you

[01:00:22] John Shulman: I think I won the first time because I literally Have not won in three years and I get so excited and, and Joe wins every, I mean, it’s a joke and I haven’t won in three years, so I start watching it and I start giggling every single time you call somebody else’s name. So I really need you fix that just to fix it. Okay. Here’s

[01:00:46] Mike Klinzing: What we’re going to have to tonight, we’re recording, right?

It’s the NBA draft. Yep. So what’s the history of fixed drawings. The Patrick Ewing frozen envelope, right. Yeah, I know. But, so I got you. So look, your, your paper’s going to go in the freezer this time

[01:01:02] John Shulman: Well, let me just tell you this. I just saw who was picked first and second as JC Shulman’s out there watching it.

I think, I think it’s very interesting. I told him earlier, I watched Steph Curry. You know, we coached against Steph for three years. I watched him go, I think, seven or eight in the draft. And he wanted to go with the Knicks. I knew that. And he went with golden state and he was upset because he went with golden state.

I think it’s worked out pretty good for him. What do you think?

[01:01:33] Mike Klinzing: I think it’s worked out pretty well. I don’t think you could have asked for much more than what he’s ended up with.

[01:01:37] John Shulman:  Let’s put it that way. Well, what, what, Hey, I appreciate what you do for the game. I appreciate what you do for, for young coaches and trying to help people.

And I’m just I’m really appreciative of being part of your deal and it’s been great knowing you and meeting you and but I just appreciate what you do.

[01:01:54] Mike Klinzing: You are definitely right at the top of the list of people who have been unbelievably supportive to what we’ve been trying to do. And I consider you a friend and it’s just, again, the game of basketball brings you relationships.

It puts you in contact with people who have the same passions that you do. And again, like I said, I count you as a friend and I can’t thank you enough for taking the time, out of your schedule to jump out with us and to everyone out there. Thanks for listening. And we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.