IZZY SANTIAGO, JR. – MAC BASKETBALL AAU BOYS’ DIRECTOR & LUTHERAN WEST (OH) HIGH SCHOOL ASSISTANT BOYS’ BASKETBALL COACH – EPISODE 677

Website – https://www.linkedin.com/in/izzy-santiago-jr-a1029818/

Email – izzysantiagojr@yahoo.com

Twitter – @macboyshoops

Izzy Santiago, Jr is the Boy’s Director for Mac Basketball AAU in Cleveland, Ohio.  This coming season he will be the Varsity Boys’ Basketball Assistant Coach at Lutheran West High School.  In addition to his coaching experience, Izzy has been a basketball official at both the high school and college levels for more than twenty years including 6 years in NCAA Mens’ Division 1 with the Big Ten, Mid American Conference, Summit League, and Horizon League.  He is currently an NCAA Division 2/3 official For Elite Officiating where he is also the Training and Development Coordinator for Elite Officiating, which covers 100 colleges from Juco, to D3 and d2 in the Midwest Region.

Santiago was an all-state performer in both basketball and baseball at St. Peter Chanel High School in Cleveland where he was Ohio’s 1996 Mr. Basketball in Division 3 leading his team to the state final four. He went on to play collegiate baseball at Western Kentucky where he was named first team all-rookie in 1997

Santiago has worked 24 years for Dominion Energy Gas as a Contact Technician Specialist.

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Take some notes as you listen to this episode with Izzy Santiago, Jr., Boys’ Director for Mac Basketball AAU in Cleveland, Ohio.

What We Discuss with Izzy Santiago, Jr.

• Lessons learned from playing outdoors as a kid – Competitiveness and Making the extra pass
• Work on your game before you show up at the courts
• “My dad’s one thing was, if you can’t dribble, you’re not going to play.”
• The coaching passion he got from his mom, a former top AAU Coach
• How being a point guard led naturally to him becoming a coach
• Balancing basketball and baseball as a high school player who was all-state in both sports
• Building relationships to create a great AAU Program
• “I set high goals and high expectations for every team in our program.”
• The importance of trust in coaching
• “The games are bonuses. Are they getting good practices?”
• “We have to be organized and we have to work on skill development”
• How zoom has made the process of hiring coaches easier
• “As a coach of a team, you can’t let any outside influence dictate who plays.”
• Why he feels allowing parents to see his practices is important in building trust with families
• “My job is to get them better for their high school program.”
• How his relationships with college coaches as an official help with recruiting his AAU players
• “One thing that I stress to our guys is when we go to a tournament, you have eyes on you and to play your hardest.”
• Handling parents when it comes to issues of playing time
• Following in his Dad’s footsteps as an official
• What likes and dislikes about officials when he’s coaching
• What he likes and dislikes about coaches when he’s officiating
• Practicing preventive officiating
• Working on the training and development side of officiating to help the profession
• Using film to improve your craft as an official
• The challenges of being a high school coach that doesn’t work in the school building
• “A strong head coach lets the assistant coaches work.”
• How being organized helps his work-life balance
• His goal as an official – be a non-factor in the game
• “How am I going to build that guy up from him having a rough game or a rough practice and how that guy bounces back the next practice or the next game? That’s the joy of coaching.”

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THANKS IZZY SANTIAGO, JR.

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TRANSCRIPT FOR IZZY SANTIAGO, JR. – MAC BASKETBALL AAU BOYS’ DIRECTOR & LUTHERAN WEST (OH) HIGH SCHOOL ASSISTANT BOYS’ BASKETBALL COACH – EPISODE 677

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here with, or without my cohost, Jason Sunkle we’re not 100% sure yet whether Jason’s going to make it out dealing with his kids, but I am pleased to be joined by Izzy Santiago Jr. The director of boys basketball for Mac AAU, and also the assistant boys varsity basketball coach at Lutheran West High School here in the state of Ohio, among many other things that Izzy does that we’re going to jump into as we get into the pod.

But Izzy, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod. Absolutely excited to be able to have you on. Izzy and I have gotten to know each other this year, my son Cal was fortunate enough to play for Izzy this spring in AAU had a great experience. I’m sure we’re going to dive into a little bit of that as we go on through his story, but he and I have gotten to become friends and that’s just been a great opportunity. Let’s dive into all the things that he’s been able to do athletically as we go back through his story, I think our audience is going to really enjoy that.

So let’s start is by going back in time to when you were a kid, tell us a little bit about your first experiences with the game of basketball.

[00:01:08] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: The game of basketball started in Seven Hills Ohio moved there from Cleveland and my dad was a Lincoln West Wolverine and all state in basketball and baseball and football.

I was not the tallest gentleman, so gave me a basketball and a glove right away when I was a kid and took off from there. And the, the game of basketball has done very well for, for me. And the thing was playing in playgrounds you know, up the hill. We my mom and dad just wanted me back home.

The same old saying that people say is when the light, the street lights come off. Well, that was that was one of our mainstays at our residence. So anyways, yes, that is where that’s where it all began in small town, Seven Hills Ohio.

[00:02:04] Mike Klinzing: Where’d you go play when you were a kid, where were the places that you went and played?

You got a little bit older and could venture out of the immediate neighborhood.

[00:02:10] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: It was Calvin park had a little park there and Elmwood park and independence was pretty much where all the, the big games were played on outside. So I end up venturing to Stafford park when I was able to drive in Maple Heights.

They had a nice court there as well, but mainly Independence Elmwood park would, would, that’s where we started.

[00:02:36] Mike Klinzing: When I think about the era that you grew up in, or the era that I grew up in 10 years earlier, playing outdoors and kids today, they have so much more access to gyms, I think, than you and I ever had.

And now you tell a kid, Hey, we used to just play in the summertime. Outside all the time, kids kind of look at you. Like you got two heads at this point. So when you think about the way that you grew up in the game, compared to the way that the players that you work with today, what do you see as some of the pros and cons of the two different systems?

[00:03:08] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Well, number one is you have to win to stay on the court. So you know, it made you your determination to stay on because you weren’t picked all the time. So you, you might play and then you have to wait 45 minutes because of the crowd the players that are there. So it gave you a taste of winning and losing real quick as a young guy, you know?

So and today’s kid don’t have those opportunities because one the outdoor game is slowed down and.  there’s not, I mean, open gyms are very rare anymore. Open courts or whatever. And when I played, it was very competitive and it really helped me at a early age learn, Hey, you want to play on the court?

You have to win the win and not just be it’s a team outdoors because you have elements of wind and sun. So the extra pass that’s what, what really helped me not only play and, and coach because of the extra pass outdoors, because that open look mid-range or easy bucket layup because the three ball outdoor was during elements is not non-existent.

[00:04:38] Mike Klinzing: I think what playground basketball does, a great job of is, as you said, it teaches kids how to win because when you look at the culture that we have now in a lot of ways, no matter whether you win or lose in a travel tournament or AE tournament, you’re going to get to play again. And sometimes I think that kills that spirit of where, Hey, it doesn’t really matter that much if we lose this game because we’re going to get to play again.

Whereas when you’re in a playgrounds, you said you might sit 45 minutes or you might sit for an hour. You might never get picked up again, depending on what park you’re at and who you’re playing with. And so I think that’s something that kids today definitely miss out on without question. And then I think the other piece of it, that to me really is important is you kind of learn, especially if you started going to a park, going to a playground when you were younger and you’re playing with older guys and better guys, and sometimes you have to figure out how to fit in and kids today often play with.

Kids their own age. Like they grow up and they’re playing on a third grade travel team. Then you’re playing on a fourth grade team. Then you’re playing on a fifth grade team and you never really play against kids who are older, better, stronger than you. Whereas I’m sure you did. Just like I did where you’re out on the playground and I might’ve been 15, 16, and I’m playing with college players or I’m playing with adults.

And not even necessarily that those adults were great players, but if you’re playing, if you’re 16, you’re playing against somebody who’s 28, the body size and the strength, and maybe the craft is just a little bit different. So I feel like you learn some things about the game in terms of playing a role and just improving your skills by playing against guys of different ages.

And that’s that I feel like kids today, they just, they miss out on that, because they’re always planning against kids their own age. I think it’s a challenge that’s out there.

[00:06:21] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Absolutely. The key that I would say is Putting the work prior to the going there as well. That, that was one of my main things of having your own hoop and working on your game, either shooting, dribbling, whatever.

So when you’re get to the outdoor court, people know you and people pick you. I mean, that’s they’re not just going to pick anyone they want, they want to win as well. So absolutely. You have to, you actually have to impress some of the older guys and that’s from going to those courts when there’s no games and the older guys show up to work on their game and they see you working.

So that helps out with you know, the respect factor as well. Because now, oh, I seen that kid six days in a row because I’m working on my game, so he’s going to pick me so. That kind of stuff doesn’t happen because a lot of those times he would bring me over and say, Hey, you might want to work on this move or your, your, your, your elbow or whatever the situation is.

He those older guys helped me with the one on one time. And it was free training. You know, everyone has a trainer now and whatever the cost is, but when you’re out there in the park and you get a old get older guy, man, that was great. So that really helped me out.

[00:07:56] Mike Klinzing: How’d you go about working on your game?

Like, what how’d you figure out? What kind of drills or what kind of things you wanted to work on?

[00:08:02] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Well, there was no really internet back YouTube or anything like that. It was pretty much watching. You know, the Michael Jordans and watching them on TV once a week or twice a week on TV and trying to, you know visualize what moves they did and the pull ups and stuff.

And you, I would just do that continuously over and over again. And the dribbling, just the simple stuff that, that in the eighties where I grew up watching basketball, the simple jab crossover mid-range was a skill back then and I tried to perfect that, and it, that really was my go-to move and that’s really what I concentrated on.

Ball handling. was my dad’s one thing he goes, if you can’t dribble, you’re not going to play. So you know, cones you know, garbage cans, all that stuff we did in the driveway really helped my game out.

[00:09:18] Mike Klinzing: How much did your dad guide you as an athlete back when you were a kid?

[00:09:23] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: My dad was the stern hardcore two hour, make sure you get your hour and a half, two hours of working out.

And my mom was the skill developer, or the trainer per se. And she was the one that really developed me overall, and my dad made sure I did her drills okay. So you know, that was, that’s pretty much how it was. My mom was a top AAU coach back in the day. She had 11 D one players throughout her career and multiple D2 D3 college players.

And I take a lot of her coaching antics and stuff like that. so she was a firecracker and you know, there’s a coach coaching at university Akron right now on the women’s side, Colleen Day-Henderson. Her husband is the assistant coach at Cleveland State Jermaine Henderson. Right now, he was at Kansas state.

And so she has you know, it’s been a good, so my mom really brought me into this game along with my father.

[00:10:47] Mike Klinzing: So what’s something that when you think about yourself as a coach, that you still, you can feel the influence of your mom?

[00:10:55] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Coaching passion. That’s the one thing I feel that my, the players feel they feed off the passion, you know your instruction in the huddle and you gain attention because of and it’s not loud you’re just instructing and, and that, I got all that for my mom.

She was. You know, very passionate about the game of basketball, loved it traveled and all that stuff. I just absorbed her how she did things and used it for my used it for my coaching. And I really value the VHS tapes of watching her coach and see how her interactions were on the sidelines.

And to this day, those are invaluable.

[00:11:52] Mike Klinzing: Did you always know you wanted to be a coach? Was that something that even while you were playing, you thought in the back of your head, Hey, at some point when I’m done playing my sports and we’ll talk a little bit about your baseball career here in a second, but when I’m done playing my sports, that coaching was a direction that you wanted to go, or is it more a case.

When you got done playing kind of looked around and were like, Hey, what the game’s kind of going away? How do I stay involved in it? Which, which one of those paths maybe better describes your, your route to coaching?

[00:12:20] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Well, any point guard you know, as they say, point guards are the coach on the court.

So for me when I got done playing I knew I wanted to stay involved in the game. Number one. And so I started officiating, but number two was I was doing some coaching, some training, coaching, whatever it is that they call it now. But the, the coaching aspect was always in the back of my mind when I graduated high school and started a college because I went to a different path in college with a different sport baseball, but I always wanted to.

Basketball was always on my mind. That was pretty much my love of a sport was basketball. So in that aspect, I loved the coaching when I was a player, because I coached on the court as a point guard. And I go, man, if I could just help some kids out down the road that, so pretty much when I was a senior in high school, I knew that was going to be my path.

[00:13:31] Mike Klinzing: All right, let’s go back to your high school experience at Chanel. Talk a little bit about how you balanced the baseball, which you were an Allstate baseball player, an Allstate basketball player. How do you balance those two? As we get into the year 2022, it’s a lot more difficult than it’s ever been. I think for kids to be able to play multiple sports and especially play multiple sports at a high level, just with the demands that their high school programs put on ’em and then just the demands.

Hey, if you want to make a high school team or be good on a high school team, you have to put in a lot of work in order to be able to do that. So how, when you look back on your experiences, how did you balance being a multi-sport athlete? What do you feel like you got out of that experience just in your life, in terms of how it enriched it.

[00:14:17] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yeah,, that it was different back then as well.

You know, AAU was not as big as it is now, actually it was probably 10 teams in Cleveland. That was but what I balanced was the skill set of each sport for baseball and basketball. What helped me drive was off the court and off the field of doing drills. Not just for baseball, but for basketball, not just for basketball, for baseball.

So doing those drills helped me with agility and speed and strength. All that stuff. Every day helped me with both sports. And once spring hit basketball was over, went right into baseball. I still had to do my dribbling series and my free throw series after a baseball game it’s was not very pleasant, but I knew in the back of my head,  I couldn’t take a day off of not shooting a basketball.

So that was my grind because my parents just instilled in me. If you want to be great, you have to put the work. and whatever you do, you have to if it’s baseball, basketball, whatever, if you’re involved, you have to put the work in. So I don’t know if that answers the question, but

[00:15:55] Mike Klinzing: Did people look at you like you were crazy?

[00:15:57] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: My friends yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was 17 years old. I couldn’t leave the house. I could leave. They, there was no like, Hey, you have to do it. Wasn’t like that strict. But they just knew like, from when I was 10, 11 years old, till you know, 18, it was like, it was in my routine. So I wouldn’t go out with my buddies until 9:30, you know?

And then be back to, to go to school the next morning, whatever. So it was, it was a normal thing for me school baseball, basketball. Dinner, whatever, then hang out with my buddies or whatever. Then I, for basketball season would be the same deal, you know? So it was, it’s a love of the game that today’s kid I really hope that it comes back to multi-sport kids because I wouldn’t change it.

Was it extra time? Yes, but it paid off because if you love two sports, three sports do it because you’re only in high school once and those memories and those your school, your alumni, we knew your alumni stuff, all that stuff. They’re like, man, that was one of the best years we had whatever the case may be.

That’s what it’s about. And when, when players ask me, Hey, a, you are a high school I go, Hey, you’re high school team means a lot more in my opinion than AAU as a camaraderie and you’re playing for your school.

[00:17:39] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. It’s so different. I just think when you, you talk about kids being able to play multiple sports and you look at the way that things have gone and it’s just, it’s so much more difficult now than it’s ever been.

And I think kids that grind the way that you did. And, and again, at that time we used the word grind, I think sometimes too much. Because if you were like me, which I’m sure you were that it, it wasn’t like you going out and getting your shots up. I don’t think you ever looked at it like, oh my God, I have to go.

you know, I have to go out and play some basketball and work on my game. It wasn’t that I think people sometimes misread what that was like, like that’s what I love to do. Like it, for me missing a party or not being able to go do such and such with my friends. So I could go play basketball at Tri-C at the old open gyms that they used to have on Friday nights, I’d pay a dollar and go sit in the hallway and wait to try to be the first one in to get in the court.

You know, like those things, like people are like, man, did you, did you, like you were missing out on stuff or was it a big sacrifice? I’m like, no, I’m like, that’s, that’s where I wanted to be. And I just get the sense that that’s the same way you looked at it was it wasn’t, it wasn’t a sacrifice. It wasn’t a challenge.

It was just, that’s what you love to do.

[00:18:53] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yeah, absolutely. And it was ingrained like when I was young. So that’s the thing that I really enjoyed that was my routine and some people have their routines and as an athlete, I really enjoyed putting in the extra time and doing all the little things.

I look at it now I say little things, but at the time it was normal, you know? Right. We didn’t have cell phones, you know we didn’t have the internet, so it made it a lot easier. I’ll be honest. There was really no big distractions like today’s kids have, they have a lot of distractions in the palm of their hand.

Right. We had perfect pagers I mean,

[00:19:49] Mike Klinzing:  I didn’t even have that, man. I had nothing. I had like early Atari. I had Atari tank pong. I could come home and play, I guess so.

[00:20:00] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yeah. So that makes a difference. I mean, I, you don’t want to put a crutch on today’s guys, but you know, back then we, you, it there was, you hang out with your buddies or you do, you, you play wiffle ball you go to the courts and you hate making excuse, you know what,

[00:20:17] Mike Klinzing: And you didn’t know what anybody else was doing.

I think that’s one of the other things that’s really interesting with the whole social media and stuff. And you look at all these kids now, like they know guys from all over the state and all over the country, like this kid’s going here and that guy’s going there. And I was lucky if I knew, I remember, like you talked about having, there, there be 10 AAU teams when you were when you were in high school.

I think when I played there was. There was one on the west side, there was one on the east side and the one on the west side was organized by me and my dad. And it was just me calling up guys being like, Hey man, Hey man, you want to come? You want to come play with us? And I I didn’t, you didn’t, you didn’t know what you didn’t know at that point.

And now there’s this there’s so much information. I think kids spend a lot of time comparing, thinking about worrying about things that really you shouldn’t be worried about. And it’s really just about, Hey, try to maximize, like you said, maximize your experience as a high school athlete or as a AAU or J volleyball or travel baseball or whatever it is that you do try to maximize those experiences and just let the chips fall.

What they may. I think so often we, we find that kids are there every, and, and parents are, are looking ahead to what’s next. You know? So I’m a high school basketball player and I’m just looking about, Hey, where am I going to go to? Where am I going to go to college? Am I going to get a scholarship? But somebody going to talk to me.

And instead it’s like, man, you got your high school career right in front of you, like try to enjoy that. Or you got your AAU experience right in front of you try to enjoy that. And it’s, it’s tough. It’s tough on kids. I think it’s way tougher on kids today than it was for you. And I couldn’t even imagine, like as a college athlete, some of these guys and having to jump on Twitter after you have a bad game and you know, it’s bad enough that you’re beating yourself up and maybe your roommate made fun of you or a couple people that were fans of you while you’re walking across campus, but to have a whole internet waiting to beat you down, if you have a bad game, I, I can’t even imagine what that’s like for kids today.

[00:22:14] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: That’s correct. And that’s the thing that we would never, we can’t like for me, I’m only a coach you know, we’re coaches, so it’s just like that aspect. We don’t know how those guys, other than when they bring it to us and say, man, coach, I’m getting beat down. On social media and, and that’s where your coach, coach, and your friend, you come in and you tell him, Hey just don’t listen to that stuff and, right, right.

And because we never, we never went through it. We had to wait until the plain dealer came out in the morning .

[00:22:51] Mike Klinzing: See what Eddie Dwyer had to say.

[00:22:53] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yes, the sun news or the sun news was every Wednesday. So it was so you had to wait. You know, I mean, I was lucky we were covered by the news channel.

So it came out at 11 o’clock for a lot of our games on basketball and at Chanel and. So that was pretty much the only thing and they don’t, they don’t rip you like today’s social media just anybody creating an accountant. And so it’s a different perspective for today’s kids and but they, they did, I’m lucky my guys reach out to, to me and, and it really helps out.

[00:23:33] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. I think it’s the power of those relationships, right?

[00:23:36] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yes, absolutely. Man coaching is all relationships, man. And you build them because you know, AAU wise you get guys for one or two years and there’s another group coming right behind them, you know? You want ’em for three, four years, but that doesn’t happen in all the time.

So AAU wise, you have to, every year you have to just keep building. And that becomes your strong program and the relationships with not just the players, but you know, grandparents, friends of that, people come to the games and you go and talk to them. You know what I’m saying? That to me when you build a program, you’re the salesperson of your squad and not only on the court, but off the court as well.

[00:24:28] Mike Klinzing: All right. Let’s talk a little bit about, I want to get into that relationship piece of it in a second, but just give people an idea of, we’re going to kind of jump ahead and then we’ll jump back, because I know we want to hit on some officiating stuff and, and more of your direct line into coaching, but talk a little bit about the opportunity with Mac basketball and how you came to be the, the boys director.

And then we can jump into some of the things. You’re able to do as an AAU coach when it comes to relationships. So first of all, just tell us how you got involved with, with Mac and just how you came to the current position that you’re in there.

[00:24:58] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: I started coaching five years ago, four years ago with Kevin MacNamara, who’s the founder of Mac basketball. He’s the girls director. And he asked me to coach a ninth grade team and had a good, good experience and enjoyed it. What I knew was going to happen got hooked and there was a couple leadership Guys that was the director for his boy’s side that he asked me two years ago to take over the program.

And I said, yes. And it’s we’re doing amazing things. You know, we went from 14 teams to 25 teams in one year and, and it’s not about the quantity it’s about the family atmosphere that we bring that I brought to the boys’ side that Kevin had on the girls’ side, he had a very successful girls program.

He still does, but I wanted to bring a, a different flavor than just the roll the ball out on the boy’s side. And it’s not just a moneymaker like a lot of the AAU programs and I’m not, I don’t talk bad about any program. That’s just not how I roll, but my thing is a family based organization. And I believe in that.

[00:26:25] Mike Klinzing: When you talk about that, and obviously with my son getting a chance to play for you this year, I got to see that first hand.

But one of the things that I think that probably has impressed me the most is just the relationships that you’re able to build with, not just the families as you mentioned, but I think ultimately probably the most important relationships with the kids. So just talk a little bit about how, especially in an AAU environment where you’re only seeing those kids twice a week, maybe for practice.

And then obviously once you get into games and tournaments, you’re kind of hanging out on the weekends and guys are together, but just talk a little bit about how you build those relationships with kids in the AAU environ.

[00:27:06] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: It’s not easy. Okay. So number one is you you, when you, when you scout your players or you look who’s going to help you and that kind of stuff you have your first initial meeting and you give your guidelines and stuff like that.

And the best thing that helped me was this group the groups that we’ve had in the past, they geez, I really talk to them if you just be on their level and just talk to them to start with and just explain to, ’em like, Hey, I’m on your side. You know, this is the expectations we have.

And I set high goals, high expectations for every team in our program. and what happens is they, they either believe it or they don’t. Okay. So a lot of times majority of the guys will be on board, some guys won’t, but then they’ll see that the majority is on board. They get on board and it’s it’s you know, the rope you throw it and you wheel ’em in for the fishing net and , and that’s you get ’em in there and you know, and it’s either they’re in or they’re out.

And a lot of times, for me personally you go on and you just talk to them, you talk and build that relationship with your guys. I mean, talking is huge. Especially it’s a, if it’s a new group and, and the one on one time during free throws, you go and talk to each guy ask and just ask, ’em not about basketball.

You ask ’em about their day. You ask ’em about school, you ask ’em about girlfriends, then they’re like, wow, this guy’s not just about basketball. And that’s how you build your relationships. You know, what you have for lunch today. I mean and I used that as a, as a referee and I brought that to coaching because I, if there was a new coach that I referee, I don’t know this guy, I know him as Joe Smith from Michigan.

And I would say, Hey, where’d you guys go to lunch today? And he’s like, whoa how was the bus trip over? You know, whatever the case the one liners that I used, I used that I adapted that to coaching. You know, and that really calmed a lot of nerves down with new players. And all of a sudden, they, they trusted me to trust factor.

I have to trust these guys. They trust me as well.

[00:29:45] Mike Klinzing: Now let’s jump to building relationships with families. And again, with the team that we had this year with our, with our team of kids that are going to be juniors. And it just, and we’ll talk maybe a little bit about how we got to, how you got that group to coalesce on the floor and just what what made ’em so fun to watch.

And I’ll kind of share my perspective on that, but from a family standpoint, when you’re coaching the team, obviously you have a lot more direct contact with the families of the, of the teams that you’re coaching, but as the director, you’re not coaching every single team. So how do you make sure that you’re a touching those families of teams that you’re not coaching, and then also give guidance to your coaches who are working underneath you to make sure that.

Replicating the same sorts of things that you’re trying to do with your players that you’re directly coaching and your families that you’re working directly with.

[00:30:39] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yeah. It’s constant communication, you know I really feel that we have we have our zoom call with our coaches before the season.

We had one during the season. We have the end of the season call we also have our coaches at tournaments that play in the same type of tournaments and you just go talk to ’em and you call them during the week and just say, Hey, how’s it going? You know? And they give you feedback and you give them feedback with that.

And during tournaments, I mean, that’s our life as director. You don’t have a lot of free time from end of March to mid-May. For Ohio AAU, because you’re in the gym all weekend and you don’t really go see games. For me personally, I’m in the stands talking to folks, getting their perspective and what I need to change as a director going forward and seeing that means a lot to those folks.

When you have the director of the club at, at their kids game and asking how’s their experience, or how’s little Johnny doing and there’s a lot, there could be a lot of negatives. And as a director, you, you absorb it, you take it and you critiquing is great. I love critiques. So you, you just absorb it and let it come on.

And, and you make the changes. Either immediately, if it’s needs immediately addressed or. you wait until the proper time to talk to that, that coach or make a change.

[00:32:29] Mike Klinzing: So what’s the biggest challenge in being the director of an AAU club?

[00:32:35] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: The challenge is the unknown of 25 teams. And you can’t be at every one of the games because each one of my players you know, our family to me.

So I made sure I knew every record of each team and each kid’s first name, last name, that kind of stuff was meant a lot to me when I took over. And I still take that today. And. Just the unknown of is little Johnny getting the proper coaching. Are they getting good practices?

The games are bonuses. Are they getting good practices? So I say the weekends, but a lot of times I’m I’m at practices because that’s what I tell the coaches. The coaches know in our program practices mean everything. Don’t just roll the ball out there and play five on five, have a practice plan, have an itinerary, do everything like a high school or college would.

And we gave practice plans out for our coaches, and this is a mock thing we want you guys to use this or use whatever system you have, but it has to be organized and we have to work on skill, ball handling, jabs and all the little stuff that people take for granted, we don’t do that here.

[00:34:16] Mike Klinzing: Anybody who’s ever tried to run any kind of a basketball program knows that one of the biggest challenges is finding good coaches. What’s your process for first of all, a trying to identify people who can come in and do the kind of job that you want ’em to do. So first you have to identify ’em and then number two, once you identify those people, what’s the process for, for bringing somebody on in terms of, I dunno, if you want to call it a formal interview, but just how do you guys go through the interviewing process in order to bring on good coaches?

[00:34:50] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yeah, it would be so. The resume everyone puts down their resume or whatever, and it would be a zoom. Zoom has been great for, for us because, oh, sure. Yeah. It saves a lot of time and money because you, would you, back when I started before zoom, before the COVID you would have to take the guy to lunch or dinner or whatever and, and really get a feel for him.

And the zoom has helped us out with that. And you roll the, I mean you talk to him and you do the background and you, hopefully it, it works. It’s not, it’s not a hundred percent I mean that’s in any, any profession you hire a person and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, but the screening process is.

You know, we’re not dictators. In our AAU program, we just want more of the, the development and, and stuff like that. I mean, we, of course we want to win, but the key to our success overall as organization is building those relationships, building the skill sets and that’s what’s made us successful in growing our program.  It’s those two factors?

[00:36:11] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, I agree. A hundred percent. I think one of the things, and I’ve told you this on of personal level many times, but I think it’s worth discussing here. Because when you start talking about people who are out there in our audience, whether it’s high school coaches or AAU coaches, youth coaches, one of the things that was the most impressive about what you were able to do with the group of 10 kids.

You had that. My son was fortunate enough to be a part of was just how you took a group that some of ’em knew each other. And I don’t know that there were some, some small groups that were friends and then other kids that just kind of just knew each other casually. And then all of a sudden you put that group together and that through what you were able to do with them on the practice floor and just, just got ’em to buy into, you talked a little bit earlier about the extra pass and just their willingness to share the ball and play hard and compete and, and just do those things together.

I just thought you did a great job. So talk a little bit about how, how you do that, what you talked to the kids about, and just some of the things that you emphasize. On the practice floor to get kids who are coming from all different backgrounds, they’re coming from all different schools, all different styles of coaching.

You got all different kinds of parents that come in. How do you get those kids to buy into? Hey, we have to, we have to share the ball. We have to play together. We have to compete. Well, how do you, how do you do that on the practice floor for somebody who’s maybe listening says, man, I’d, I’d love to be able to do something like that with my, with my group of kids that I’m working with.

[00:37:37] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Well, number one is the political factor. Okay? So as a coach of a team, you can’t let any outside influence dictate who plays. That’s. My number one thing is either a parent, a head coach of a high school whatever you gain respect as a head coach of a program on evaluating players at practice.

And playing guys during games of their work at practice and you don’t let the influence of anybody dictate who plays. And I value that since my mom in her AAU days she said, don’t let anybody tell you who to play. And that really, I take that to heart. Every game I coach, every practice I’m at and I make practices hard.

Okay. Our practices are structured, like a high school or college, it doesn’t matter. This is AAU. I throw AAU out of the window. When we start practice we don’t don’t roll the ball out. It’s timed. And the players, our particular team, those guys appreciated the structure. We had guys from Cleveland and different not even Cleveland, just different coaches where it wasn’t as structured.

But they knew right away that this is how it has to go. And if they want to play, they’re going to have to practice hard and, and not just being successful at practice, but doing the little things of drop steps of floaters those et cetera. That means a lot of going hard. And that’s what I think that’s what brought us together as a squad was the intensity of practice. I that’s what I want to stress intensity of. As a coach, that’s what got us going.

[00:40:01] Mike Klinzing: I do think that when you get guys that play hard and when they share the ball, it can become contagious. And I think that’s what happened with our group this year is it just became contagious.

Where if you weren’t doing that, you stood out pretty quickly that, Hey, man, if you’re not, if you’re, if you’re taking bad shots or you’re not playing hard, it it’s, it’s pretty noticeable when the other nine guys are all doing those things. And I think that’s a credit to what you were able to accomplish.

And I think as you talked about earlier, when you talked about the relationships, I think right from the beginning, one of the things that, that I noticed right away was just how quickly my son bought into and just felt like, Hey, I’m, I’m a part of this thing and it’s. It’s something that I don’t want to let coach Izzy down.

I also don’t want to let my teammates down. And once you have that, once you’ve established that, I think then you have an opportunity to do some, some really special things, which our team certainly was able to do. When you look at the, the spring season that they had, it was, it was just a, it was just a lot of fun as a, as a parent to sit in the stands, be able to watch it.

And then I think the other thing that you and I talked about a couple times during the season that I know you remarked to me that one of the things that you loved about the team and forget about the, forget about the kids, but just the family is, and just how important it was that I think the families kind of, for lack of a better way of saying it stayed out of the.

And let you coach the team and let the kids play. And so often, unfortunately in today’s world, we, we see that that’s not the case. So just talk a little bit about maybe that piece of it from a you know, how important it is, or maybe how you envision the ideal sort of parent role and how the impact that can have both positively and negatively on a team.

[00:41:48] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yeah, that was for a new squad. I did not restrict parents from coming to practice. I wanted them to come to practice to see how it’s run to are they getting value? Are there kids understanding what’s happening. So we had parents at practice, which was great.

For me personally, because. that set the tone some, some coaches don’t let parents at practice. And that that’s what they do. But for me, once you come to a practice, you’re going to be like, man, I don’t, I’m good. You know, this, get it it’s structured. My kids learning you come to one or two practices.

You you’re pretty much saying, Hey, my kids in good hands. And I think that’s what happened with this group. You know, a lot of the parents came early and came to practices, saw, saw the what we had. And it wasn’t what we were telling ’em at practice was the same thing we’re telling ’em during games and the respect factor from the parents, which is a special group we, that, that we had this year.

Because. So we had 10 guys and there’s five guys on the court. But every parent knew that their kid was getting a fair shake because of the practices. And they saw what was going on. They saw the message was not demeaning their kid. It was coaching. And that’s all that that we strive for that I strive for is coaching.

Every minute 30, we could be up 30, down 30, it’s all coaching. And my job is to get ’em better for their high school program. And my job is to get ’em better for their college career. And some coaches lose sight of, of that, and they want to win everything, but winning ain’t everything in today’s society and today’s society, it’s different because of the NCAA  scouting and things like that.

And, and to me, if I can get my guys prepared and the parents see that they’ll leave you alone.

[00:44:17] Mike Klinzing: I want to ask you a question about the college piece of it. And then I want to come back to, rather than having a good parent situation, we’ll come back and talk about a potential bad parent situation, how you might handle that.

But let’s first talk about the college piece of it as an AAU basketball coach, as an AAU basketball director. How do you view your role in helping kids who have a desire to play college basketball? What do you do? How do you see that working for you as the director, being able to connect with college coaches and help those players to get to that next level, if that’s what they want to do.

[00:44:58] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yeah. So for me personally, to you have to evaluate each kid, each kid has different levels of you want to say their max level could be D2 NAIA, or whatever you’re projecting them as where they’re at and each day their stock is either increasing at practice each game.

They’re either The kids dictate where they’re going to be at which level and for college coaches for me personally, as a referee I know the coaches not personally because you don’t, that’s just whatever, but if I send them an email, they know who I am personal they know who I am.

So it made my job a lot easier to get college coaches at our AAU games because of the familiarity with the refereeing and being a AAU director. So that’s one advantage we have at Mac basketball with getting our guys to college. But in that aspect, I have to make sure our reputation is good.

So some guys might not be the Division two guys. I’m only reaching out to division three guys, and I have division two players, division one players on my roster. Now I might have a D two, a D three guy that I think, but a D two guy might like him. So it helps our program dramatically because we have different levels at our games because of relationships, I always go back to relationships.

And that’s one thing that, that as a ref, you have to be hard sometimes to coaches and, but at the end of the day, you make up with them, you know what I’m saying? So there’s a give and take and they respect you. You respect them. And then all of a sudden, after the game you’re slapping each other on the back or whatever and that helps us out.

Helps our program out in particular because of relationships and helps our players in our program to get to the next level. And that’s one thing that I stress to our guys is when we go to a tournament, you have eyes on you and to play your hardest. And that’s why our practices are hard.

[00:47:41] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. I agree with all that.

I think it’s really, when you look at the role that both a high school coach and an AAU coach and AAU program plays in a kid’s ability to be able to go and, and get to the next level. It’s always interesting to talk to college coaches. And I, I, one of the things I always ask ’em is how do you balance evaluating a kid in their AAU setting versus in their high school setting?

It’s always interesting to hear what coaches have to say about that and how they, how they kind of look at those environments. And a lot of times a kid plays. A slightly different role on their team. If you’re on your high school team, you might be the leading score, but on your AAU team, maybe you’re have to fit more into a particular role.

And so it’s always, when you talk to those, when you talk to those college coaches and to get their perspective, and I, I think most of ’em would probably say that there’s a balance that they try to evaluate in both in both environments. Cause a lot of times they’re seeing the kid in a slightly different role or they’re seeing them with a different group of players they’re seeing in play in a different style of play.

And so they’re, they’re able to, they’re able to evaluate, and I think it’s even more and more now than it’s ever been. I think that both high school basketball and AAU basketball are probably equally important when it comes to that evaluation. I think what, what a lot of coaches have told me is that they, a lot of times they identify players through AAU and then.

They’re able to then follow them through their high school career. And then especially if you’re identifying kids early, maybe when they’re you know, when they’re coming off their sophomore year going into their junior year, now you start to evaluate ’em you get to get ’em on the radar. And then you can, then you can utilize both both environments to be able to make a judgment.

Because just like you talked about, you’re trying to get to know those kids as a college coach and find out what kind of player they are, what kind of person they are, what kind of work habits they have. And as, as we all know, scouting is a, is a very, is a very inexact science without question, let’s go back to that parent piece.

And we talked about what it’s like when you have good parent situation, I’m sure at some point in your career, you’ve been, I in a situation where maybe a parent was unhappy with playing time, whether that be when you’re coaching AAU or when you’re coaching in one of your Scholastic settings. But just talk about how you handle maybe those difficult conversations.

When a parent comes in and says, Hey, I think my. Kids should be playing more. They should be getting more shots. How do you, how do you handle those more difficult conversations?

[00:50:10] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yeah, that is that is the coach’s nightmare right there. And each coach has different philosophies. Mine is a setting where if a parent comes to me and says Johnny needs more playing time.

So my first thing to them is well, depending on the age if you go into high school, ninth grade and up I would say, Hey, let me, I want to have a meeting with the player first, talk to them about what’s going on. You know, in a meeting asking about practices, is he going hard?

Is he doing what is he, what is he feeling? And just feeling the player. To see if this is a player driven statement from the parents or is it a parent statement? So I’ll do the one on one with the player. Let them go back to their mom and dad, or, you know you know, legal guardian or whoever, and let them reach back out at that point.

Then we’ll have a, another meeting with the legal guardian or a parent and the player and just everyone vent what they have to vent out. And after that if that doesn’t satisfy the parent I would bring in the athletic director or a administrator at that point. And just explain to them what’s going on and video.

You know, at that point during the third or fourth process would be video on good and bad. You know, you can’t just bring out the negatives.

[00:51:53] Mike Klinzing: Don’t just show the lowlight film.

[00:51:55] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Correct. So you have to bring out both aspects saying if Johnny can be more consistent doing it this way, you know you know what I’m saying?

Just the give and take, because that’s where you develop the respect from people. And I really value that and, and they gain the respect because wow. He didn’t show just negative plays. You know, he showed some good stuff. And, and some people are just not they don’t like to hear negative stuff about their child and or not realist on, on their child and and, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, but at the end of the day, you have your, your overall core values that you, that you talk to the parents before the season.

And that’s what you have to go by at the, if it doesn’t satisfy, after going through all these steps, you just go back to that initial meeting that you had with everybody about your, about this is what you’re going by and. Hopefully you have good administration to back you.

[00:53:06] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, that’s really important.

I think we’ve all probably been in situations where you’ve had good administration that has supported decisions. And I can honestly say that if you don’t have that and you get yourself into a situation it’s not, it’s not pretty it makes, it makes your job as a coach, a lot more difficult. I once had somebody tell me that whatever you’re going to do especially in coaching that you have to do what you believe is right?

So that when you put your head down on the pillow at night, you can, you can sleep well. And I think ultimately that’s really what it comes down to is you have to, you have to ultimately do what you believe is right, and is in the best interest of your team and your players. And if you do that, I think most of the time that things are going to work out for the best, but it doesn’t always as coaches.

We know that sometimes things, unfortunately, if you don’t have somebody above you, that’s supportive you know, things can get, things can get difficult. Pretty quickly and hopefully we won’t be in hopefully it won’t be in that situation very often as, as coaches. Let’s talk a little bit about your officiating.

Tell me your path to, to becoming an official and what you like about officiating, what attracted you to it? And I know your, your dad was an official at one point. And so just tell us a little bit about how you came to came to officiate it.

[00:54:20] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Well, this is my 24th year of officiating. 1998. I, I came back from college and my dad was an official and he said, if you want to make extra money, this is a good profession, you know?

And so I took the class and got hooked to refereeing basketball. And my path was very good path. I refereed six years division one. I started refereeing college basketball in 2003. So this is my 19th year of college basketball. And I continued to referee at this time division two and division three.

And I really, really believe that helped my overall life of the structured part of being a ref and the timeframe of being there early and studying film when video became more accessible to referees the hard critique of not being in the proper position. And I was very hard on myself.

And that’s what got me to the level I’m at today is because I was a strong critique on myself and I had some really good. Mentors and mentors. Today it’s, it’s huge in any profession. If you get one or two guys or girls that you can rely on that is the key to, to success because everything you do is not golden.

You know, you’re not getting a hundred percent calls, correct. You know? And that’s something I, I learned real quick, but I was lucky because my dad was an official and I could bounce stuff off him. And I really hope the profession gets better. Well, I know there’s a shortage of refs right now in all sports.

But there’s a good way to get back into it is I know they’re bumping up the ref pay in Cleveland area, Northeast, Ohio. And I hope it continues to go that way because the time vested that people don’t know you know, when you have, when you referee the right way, you put a lot of time in, not just on the, on the field or on the court, just off the court and studying the role book and watching video and all that stuff makes you a good referee.

[00:56:56] Mike Klinzing: All right. I’m going to ask you the same question. I’m going to ask it twice, but with a couple of words substituted. And so the first question is as a referee, what do you like about coaches and conversely, as a coach, what do you like about referees? And then I’m going to make you flip that question around after you answer this part.

[00:57:15] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: All right. So as a referee to coaches when coaches ask questions on the court. Okay. You know, the, the basic hand check or whatever, you might get a skilled coach ask about an off ball play, or, Hey, can you watch 24? He’s holding my cutter coming off this screen, or that gives you as a ref, more respect to a coach, because he’s just not asking about the obvious play that everyone saw.

Or he’s not asking about your partner’s call Hey, what did you see on that play? , you know you know, you get that in, in a absolutely.

[00:58:02] Mike Klinzing: Hey, can you help? Hey, can you help him out?

[00:58:03] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yes. You know, and, and that kind of stuff. You you just throw it right back at him and say, Hey coach I had a different angle.

You make up some stuff to hopefully calm him down. And then he, the skilled coaches will go, come on you. We, we both saw what happened, you know what I’m saying? And he’s correct. We both did see what happened, but a foul call is a foul call. And a lot of times you don’t reverse it unless it’s an arc play with the block charge and the arc.

That’s pretty much the only time you can change. A foul call in, in college basketball. And in high school, you can’t change a foul call unless you have a, a violation prior to the fall foul call which that means you both blew the whistle at the same time. And that’s very well in today’s high school basketball, that happens a lot.

But in college it does not. So you, you, it’s a give and take and you as a re, you have to have. A one liner ready for the coach. And it takes time that’s, that is the one thing that can’t be taught because every referee has different. Everyone’s not outgoing or everyone doesn’t have that one liner in the hip pocket because they’re young or they’re just the rule book guy each ref is different and each coach is different.

So it’s just a matter of as a ref, hopefully with experience, you can talk to coaches. So that’s one thing that, as being a veteran now, and I tell younger refs, I go, you have to learn how to talk to coaches you know, and give them the one liner. So you can go back to refereeing because you don’t want a big dialogue on the side because.

Your partners are over there looking at you like, wow, is he selling me down the river? Or what’s going to happen. The next call is he going to call for this guy? Because he’s complaining. So it’s a, there’s a lot of aspects to refereeing. When a coach asks about a certain play.

[01:00:20] Mike Klinzing: All right. As a coach, what do you like about officials?

[01:00:23] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Okay. So I am a high school coach and a AAU coach. So AAU is a different world of officiating. Some tournaments, we have a camp setting where the refs are trying out to get to a higher level of college or a higher level of high school. And those refs for AAU wise, if we do have a camp setting, as they say do not engage as much with the AAU coaches because they’re on trial so they want to get plays right.

And not pretty much talk to a AAU guy. And a lot of AAU coaches do not have You know, a great background in coaching, it’s more of gathering talent and that kind of stuff. So for me personally, I look at referees as a coach. Are they hustling? Are they getting in the proper angles? Just because I’m a referee.

So I’m kind of a different breed when it comes to coaching and refereeing, because I wa I’m, I’m still on the court. But I do look at call selection on both ends. Are they consistent, even if they’re not hustling in AAU, are they consistent on both ends? And I think that’s where I kind of take a backseat and don’t don’t question referees in AAU because of the as long as they’re consistent.

[01:01:58] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. I think the consistency in the hustle right. Are two things that. Any coach, no matter what level you’re at, if, and look AAU sometimes depending on what tournaments you’re at, right? Somebody could have reffed, they could be on their eighth game. And so they’re probably not going to be sprinting up and down at full speed, but yet at the same time, I think as a coach, the one thing that you do hope for and expect is that they’re going to at least be in position to try to make those calls.

And if you did, if they are look, as you said earlier, everybody’s going to make mistakes and you can live with that. If they’re trying their best to be consistent and they’re getting in a position. So I want to flip that question around now and say, as a coach, what do you not like about officials and as an official, what do you not like about coaches?

[01:02:42] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Well, as a coach, the know-it-all referee you know, where we’re not as a, you’re not a hundred percent right. All the time, you know? So It’s okay. To make a mistake in. When I, when I, when guys say no, I saw it a hundred percent. You know, and they say, no, that was a file. Whatever, whatever the case is, then you watch it on video.

Or you’re, you’re watching it the day after. And you’re like, man, there’s no way or you get this happened to me personally this year in a big championship game after the game, the referee said I missed it, but during the game, he said he had a great view.

[01:03:37] Mike Klinzing:  That not telling the truth is sometimes a little thorny. Right?

[01:03:41] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yeah. So it’s tough for me personally, because I’m a ref. So you know what they’re, what they’re telling you is, is not correct. And I’m not one to throw rule books in referees face or this rule.

That’s just not my angle of, of coaching. So the only thing that I don’t like as when a referee says he was a hundred percent correct. To be honest with you because we’re, that’s, that’s very far, especially in AAU, because a lot of times you have two referees and there’s a lot of stuff that is missed or proper angles are not being seen.

And it’s hard to tell coach I’m a hundred percent, you know? And so that’s one thing I do do not like.

[01:04:41] Mike Klinzing: All right. And then take it from the other perspective as a referee. What don’t you like about coaches? What’s something that coaches do that make you angry as an official?

[01:04:50] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Well, little Johnny’s never swore in his life, you know?

You know, I can’t believe he would, if you go to a coach as a rep and say, Hey, 24 is just running his mouth can you help me out? You know, and right away they go back saying, well, 24, man, he’s never done anything like this, you know? And and you’re just asking for help from a coach, you know what I’m saying?

So that kind of stuff is you know, if I’m asking a coach to help me, I just ask for a little help. You know, I don’t want to. Punish your team with a technical file or whatever the case may be to hurt his team. So you try to give a, I call it preventative officiating and some coaches don’t, they don’t see what you’re doing, you know?

So those are the coaches. I don’t really like,

[01:05:49] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, that makes sense. I think as a, as a coach, I think one of the things that I’ve always appreciated about officials, officials that I’ve enjoyed working with are, are ones that will talk to you when you have a question, especially if you’re doing it in a respectful way.

And then two, I think the other thing is when somebody comes to you and says, Hey, tell. Whatever, tell 24 that they’re, they have to stop doing this, or they watch, watch this person. They’re, they’re doing that. I think when you have those kinds of conversation, there’s a, there’s a dialogue there. And as you said, you don’t want to stop and have a, nobody wants to have a minute 30 conversation with between a coach and official, but if you can just have that, that quick interaction during a dead ball, or as they’re going up and down the floor I think it makes such a difference on both sides when you don’t have, I think you called it the, know it all official when you don’t have the know it all official, or you don’t have the know it all coach, right?

It goes both ways. I think if can avoid those, those two stereotypes, I think we’re all going to be, we’re all going to be much better off. You recently took. Talk to me a little bit about some of the, the supervisory duties that you’ve had with officials in trying to, to be able to, to be a mentor and to be able to, to evaluate officials, talk a little bit about that and what, what that’s like and how you’re trying to help young officials.

Cause as you’ve said, we’ve, we’ve got an official shortage because of just one, it’s a diff difficult job and it’s get, gets more difficult every day because of what goes on amongst coaches and parents and just the unfortunately abuse that officials take. But just talk about how you’re trying to give back to the profession.

[01:07:24] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yeah. That so the training and development aspect of college basketball with everything being on film. Has helped out and high school, believe it or not, when COVID hit you know, everyone got the live streams for parents to go watch the games and that actually helped officiating out because guys could go watch their game.

So I just took out another role in, in my career as a ref to train college basketball officials, the younger guys and older guys and watching film and getting in proper position to make a call and you know, getting more zoom calls as as officiating and going over, not just rules, but watching plays and watching different situations in.

The great thing about the live streams is you can watch bench decorum. You can watch the interaction with the referees because a lot of times in high school or small college, it’s one camera angle. And a lot of times the coaches put it opposite their bench. So you can see how much dialogue or you can see hand gestures and all that helps training, especially the hand gestures as a referee, you try to limit those.

And that’s all stuff that if you don’t watch film, you don’t know you’re doing. And that’s one of the roles I took on this, this upcoming season for elite officiating, which is our north. We have 110 schools that we assign college basketball for. So it’s a lot more on my plate and I love it.

I love. Helping people. And the officiating that in college has, has been it’s a lot different than high school because of the time factor that the college refs put in. You know, it financially it’s a little bit more money than high school. So to move up, you have to watch film. They track your computer time you know, and it’s good division one.

When I was in division one, they actually watched exactly what you know, how much screen time you had. It was very good. So I’m trying to bring that aspect into small college basketball,

[01:10:00] Mike Klinzing: which makes sense. Right. I mean, when you think about how. The development of film from a coaching standpoint and just what we’re able to do, whether it’s at the college level and programs use synergy, or whether you’re at the high school level.

And you’re using a hudl, just the ability to access, film as a player, as a coach, and obviously as an official compared to what it was when you were playing or when I was playing where you’re trying to press the button on the VHS tape and get it to go backwards and skip in three minutes ahead and three minutes behind and all that stuff.

I mean, I think no matter what you’re doing, if you’re not looking at video, you’re probably doing yourself a disservice, anything related to sports, whether it’s coaching, playing or officiating, I think you. The more time you can spend in the film room, the better off you’re going to be in any of those aspects.

And so again, as, as people can tell from our conversation, you’re wearing a lot of hats. I want to talk about the one final hat, the final piece of the puzzle that we haven’t talked about. And that’s coaching at the high school level. Talk a little bit about kind of what you’ve done in your career coaching at the high school level, and then what you’re heading into this season.

[01:11:05] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yeah. So I started off as a volunteer at Fairview high school. And I did a lot of the scouting behind the scenes and putting in scouting reports given my opinion on how to attack different teams. And now I’m at Luther west high school. And last year I was the head JB coach. And this year I’m varsity assistant with the same role of scouting and being the day to day with our varsity group and it’s a lot of skill development and getting our guys prepared via video. That’s where my role comes in of not just breaking down other teams, but breaking down each, each player and saying, Hey, this, this is what’s making you good.

Or this is what’s this is one of the things that you need to work on. And what we do good at Lutheran west is the video don’t lie. You know, so we record practices. Each day, this year, we’re going to be doing more of a 10 to 15 minutes before practice of breaking. You know, certain segments that we did the day before.

And that’s what I’m really excited about is bringing more of the college. That’s what they do in college and we’re bringing that to Lutheran West. And I think that gives us the advantage to have the availability of that kind of stuff. And I tell you what, I’m really excited about the group we have and the overall practices are that we do is very intense.

Very skill-based very I would say game, game speed competitiveness. So there’s a winner and loser in our practices that we, that we plan on doing for the upcoming season, I think that’s going to challenge our guys to be better.

[01:13:17] Mike Klinzing: You are among a large number of coaches who is not a teacher. So you’re not in the high school building all day where you can connect with players in between classes and in the lunchroom or in homeroom, or just D ’em up as you’re walking down the hall.

So just talk a little bit about what your experience has been like and maybe what advice you would have for other coaches. Because as I said, there’s a lot of coaches out there who are not teachers who are not in the building. What’s some advice you might have for somebody who’s in a similar position to you at a different school.

[01:13:51] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Well show up prior to practices, you know a lot of times practice starts at you know, three 30. If you have the flexibility to get there at three talk to the guys while they’re stretch. Stay afterwards, practice stay after and ask guys if they want to get a quick workout in or when they’re changing their shoes to their street clothes or whatever, and in the gym and just talk to them and develop the relationships at that point, because you have pretty much six days before the season six days a week that you’re with those groups.

So I would say stay before and stay after as soon as the practice done, don’t be the first coach to leave. Don’t be the last coach to show up at practice. That’s where the, the players they’ll see you there and they’ll start respecting you more, even though they don’t see you during the school day, they see you there early.

They see you there late. That gives you the respect and that can’t happen every day. Don’t get me wrong. But if you set the tone early, As a coach, those guys respect that. And talking to ’em even during, when they’re out on a drill, just talking to ’em about just going up to ’em and say, Hey, you know why the head coach is doing his talking or whatever, or there’s a drill going on.

You could talk to ’em that’s where you develop the relationships. And I really think young coaches or any coach should, that’s not in the building need to develop those relationships before and after.

[01:15:40] Mike Klinzing: The difference in your mind between being a head coach and being an assistant coach in terms of those relationships or anything else that jumps out at you in terms of the differences between being a head coach and an assistant coach.

[01:15:55] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Yeah, the, the responsibility of a head coach in high school is a ton with admin stuff and fundraising and all that stuff. As an assistant coach, you’re more of the player based you know, dealing with the practice plans and stuff like that. So it helps out with your relationship process.

And I really believe that the, a strong head coach lets the assistant coaches work. So that’s one thing I, I, I’m lucky to have a good head coach because he lets the assistant coaches do their thing, you know? So if you have something to say. You know, he lets you do your thing. So I hope I answered the question.

I might have went on a tangent there.

[01:16:49] Mike Klinzing: No that’s a hundred percent, right. I think probably of anything that a head coach can do is to be able to empower their assistant so that not only does that help the assistant, but it also helps the players to understand that the assistant has the ability to be able to, to have an impact on the program.

And I think that the, the best coaches give their assistant that power and give them the ability to speak and, and allow them to command respect throughout the program. And it’s easy as a head coach sometimes not to do that, to do all the talking yourself and, and try to do everything. And I’ve talked to a bunch of coaches that have told me Hey, the more, the more I delegate, the more I let the, the good people that I brought into the program, the more I let them do, the more success we’ve been able to have as I’ve stepped back and sort of acted as like the.

The CEO and, and empowered the people that I brought into my program. So I think that was a, that was a really good point. All right. We’re coming up on close to an hour and a half before we get out. I want to ask you one final two part question. So part one is. When you think about what you have ahead of you, and you can take this in a lot of different directions, you can take it with AAU.

You can take it with coaching at Luther west. You can take it with your officiating, maybe some combination of all, all three. What is the biggest challenge that you see ahead of you over the next year or two? And then the second part is what’s your biggest joy when you think about what you get to do day in and day out.

So your biggest challenge and your biggest joy.

[01:18:12] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: Well, the biggest challenge is getting my wife on board…

[01:18:16] Mike Klinzing: That’s a challenge for all of us, man.

[01:18:20] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: I’m just joking. You know, that you have to have that good family base to do what we do every day.

So but the challenge is to grind and to balance family. And your job and your coaching so that balance is, is a challenge every day. And you can’t lose perspective of each aspect of what you’re doing. So that is the challenge every day that, that people lose sight of, and you can’t lose sight of family, your immediate family and you can’t lose sight of a player asking for five more minutes after practice so it’s a balance and that’s the challenge as a coach, as especially assistant coach in high school because you’re there, you’re putting a lot of time in and.

You might have something going on later in that evening and you might have it’s a balance. So that is the challenge that any coach has. And, and I really believe that that helps you become successful and that’s organization having a calendar, either on your phone or, you know being organized.

That’s what beats those challenges. If you’re not organized, you’re, you’re not going to be successful. So you know, that’s, that’s my, the biggest challenge for me personally, is to the good balance of family job and coaching and officiating.

[01:20:08] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. That’s well said. All right.

Your biggest joy,

[01:20:10] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: The biggest joy is Number one for refereeing is leaving the court. Not being seen. So which means we had no bearing on the game. We are a non-factor. And that is one of the things I strive on as for refereeing and as coaching is seeing the ups and downs of players, because everything’s not great.

Right. So how am I going to build that guy up from him having a rough game or a rough practice and how that guy bounces back the next practice or the next game? That’s the joy of coaching. Like you could say wins and losses or whatever, but just going back on the development of each guy and, and that is where the key to coaching is, and you know, every practice is not going to be great and every game ain’t going to be great. But how do you, how do you get your message to those guys? And then when it clicks, when you see it happen, you’re like, man, this is why I coach, or I got a text message from a former player thanking me for the guidance and the tough love that I’ve given him has helped him. And he said, I didn’t realize it until I graduated. You know? And that meant a lot to me. You know what I’m saying? Because the tough love that we give as coaches some guys get it, some guys don’t, but the guys who get it and they use that in their profession cause you’re not going to have a hundred percent guys playing college, but you know, basketball, baseball, whatever they use that for their profession.

And that’s what the joy is for that kind of stuff.

[01:22:16] Mike Klinzing: That’s so true. I think that impact that you have beyond the sport is really what ultimately coaching’s all about clearly winning and losing and helping a kid become a better player at whatever sport it is that your coaching’s important, but really if you can have a greater impact on them beyond the sport that they take with them.

So five or 10 years from now, they’re calling you up and sharing things about their life. That’s really what that’s, where the magic and coaching is. So I think that’s, that’s well said before we get out, I want to give you a chance, share how people can reach out to you, whether you want to share your social media handle, whether you want to share email, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I’ll jump back in and wrap things up.

[01:22:54] Izzy Santiago, Jr.: All right. So the Twitter is @Macboyshoops and that is where you can get information on our program. And you can reach me at IzzySantiagoJr@yahoo.com. That is my personal email my work email, and my officiating email that is where I get all my contact stuff.

And I really appreciate being on the, the podcast tonight and what you guys are doing for not only the coaching profession, but just overall. I think this is a great platform for each sport.

[01:23:36] Mike Klinzing: Well, I appreciate that. And it’s definitely been a labor of love and it’s something that we’ve had a blast with and just getting to talk to people from all over the country at different levels of the game and doing different roles.

It’s you know, again, it’s just something. I’m so thankful that we’ve had an opportunity to do it. And just again, on a personal level, I want to thank you for coming on tonight, but more importantly, I want to thank you for, for what you’ve done for my son, Cal, and, and just the opportunity to watch the, the group that you put together this spring was just a lot of fun.

And I’ve said it to you in private, but in public, I just think you did an amazing job with those kids. And I haven’t seen a group that has the type of ability that they have play so hard and play together. I don’t think that happens. I don’t think it happens by accident. I think you had a lot to do with it.

So again, on a personal level, I just want to say, thanks. And to everyone out there, we appreciate you listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.