DEVIN DURRANT – FORMER NBA PLAYER & AUTHOR OF THE BOOK “THE VALUES DELTA” – EPISODE 656

Devin Durrant

Website – https://thevaluesdelta.com/

Email – 67devin@gmail.com

Twitter – @DurrantDevin

Devin Durrant is the owner of multiple real estate–centric companies and a retired NBA player. Devin’s new book, The Values Delta, is a self-improvement action guide to help people prioritize their values and connect them to the most treasured people and parts of their life.  Over his professional basketball career, he played a season with the Indiana Pacers, briefly with the Phoenix Suns, and later with several European basketball teams. Devin was a consensus All-American at Brigham Young University as well as a two-time Academic All-American and was voted one of the top 10 Utah college basketball players of the 20th century. He has been named one of the 50 most influential sports figures in Utah by Sports Illustrated. He was inducted into the Utah Sports Hall of Fame in 2016.

Devin has been a real estate investor for over 25 years and has guest-lectured in real estate courses at Brigham Young University. As an investor and speaker, Devin developed a way to look at adding value to properties and saw the close ties to adding value to all aspects of life in both personal and professional arenas. A motivational public speaker, Devin has spoken to thousands of groups around the world over the last 40+ years on a variety of topics from athletics to education and investing to parenting. Currently, he speaks on the importance of moral values and how they impact many areas of our personal lives, as well as our companies and organizations.

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Be prepared to take some notes as you listen to this episode with former NBA Devin Durrant, author of the new book, The Values Delta.

What We Discuss with Devin Durrant

  • The why behind his book, “The Values Delta”
  • Being one of only a few people to get dunked on by Michael Jordan and also to dunk on Michael Jordan
  • The concrete courts his Dad made in the backyard for him to play on
  • His experience playing on the 9th grade team when he was in 8th grade
  • “If you are striving for excellence, it’s not a part-time pursuit.”
  • Being befriended by Mike May in high school who played at BYU at the time and the impact that relationship had on his development
  • Growing up in Louisville dreaming of playing for Denny Crum
  • Being teammates with Danny Ainge and Fred Roberts and Greg Kite at BYU
  • His mission trip to Spain at age 19
  • “The best preparation was just competing with the best wherever you could find it.”
  • Being drafted in the 2nd round by the Indiana Pacers
  • Playing in Spain and France after a brief stop in Phoenix with the Suns
  • “We learn different values from different people at different stages of our lives.”
  • His path to real estate investing
  • “I think there’s always benefit in stopping and just saying, okay, what are my values?”
  • Identifying your priority values
  • “We need to be proactive and invite some uplifting conversations into our lives”
  • “This is my best day yet…”
  • The V Effect
  • 20,000 shots and the value of initiative

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THANKS, DEVIN DURRANT

If you enjoyed this episode with Devin Durrant let him know by clicking on the link below and sending him a quick shout out on Twitter:

Click here to thank Devin Durrant on Twitter!

Click here to let Mike & Jason know about your number one takeaway from this episode!

And if you want us to answer your questions on one of our upcoming weekly NBA episodes, drop us a line at mike@hoopheadspod.com.

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TRANSCRIPT FOR DEVIN DURRANT – FORMER NBA PLAYER & AUTHOR OF THE BOOK “THE VALUES DELTA” – EPISODE 656

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here with my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight, and we are pleased to welcome to the podcast tonight, former NBA player, businessman, and author of the book, the Values Delta, Devin Durrant. Devin, Welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.

[00:00:17] Devin Durrant: Hey, it’s good to be here. I look forward to talking to you and Jason and having an enjoyable time here tonight.

[00:00:25] Mike Klinzing: Excited to have you on looking forward to diving into your background as a player, which is very interesting. And then being able to dive into your book, which as I told you in our pre podcast call, I think is very well done. I think for anyone out there, who’s listening to the episode and you’re going to hear us talk a little bit about the book and what it’s all about.

I think you’re going to want to go out and pick up a copy. So let’s start there. Devin, give us sort of the why behind the book and a quick little synopsis of what the book’s all about.

[00:00:56] Devin Durrant: Will do. Thank you.  One of the great things that I experienced over the course of a lifetime is just the opportunity to read good books and be influenced by good books.

And those books have shaped me and, and helped me in how I see the world in different things. And I’ve always wanted to offer, essentially give something back. What might I be able to share with someone else that could be helpful in any way? And over time, I settled in on the importance of our values, how they impact us in so many different ways in our personal lives, in our professional lives.

And so over the last eight years, I’ve given a lot of thought on, on how can I share this message in a way that’s, that’s simple and clear. But that hopefully might be profound for someone who’s, who’s looking for an opportunity to find a little more meaning and purpose in life. Get some more joy out of life and also to find greater success not only in our, the personal realm, but in their job and their company and their organization on their team, wherever that might be.

And so that’s what’s brought us here today,

[00:02:18] Mike Klinzing: as I said earlier, I think the book is really well done as I went through and read it in preparation for the episode, there’s just a tremendous amount of stories. And some of the stories that you share are from other people besides yourself, some of the stories you share are stories that happen to you personally.

I want to highlight one story cause it’s going to kind of take us into your life’s journey and as a basketball player, You were fortunate enough to play in the NBA. And you talk about in the book, how you were, and maybe are one of the few people in the world who had the opportunity to not only dunk on Michael Jordan, but be dunked on buying Michael Jordan.

So tell us a little bit about each one of those two experiences and what you remember about each one, because it’s not every day that somebody gets to say that those two things were they able to do. I’m sure there are probably a lot more people that were dunked on by Jordan than he than were able to dunk on him.

So just talk about both of those.

[00:03:17] Devin Durrant: Oh sure. Happy to let’s turn back the clock a little bit to 1984. And it was I was invited to the Olympic trials, so we all went back to Bloomington university of Indiana and coach Knight was the Olympics coach. And so really they, we just had opportunity to play during the week and, and be observed by the coaches.

And so just in, in one game I, I caught the, caught the ball on, on the wing and, and the guy was overplaying me. And so I was able to, to go baseline and Michael came over to help out. And he, he was just we caught him off guard a little bit. So he was a step slow in this particular case, it’s hard to ever say Michael Jordan was a step slow, but in this case, I just went up and, and dunked the ball.

He came over to help and fouled me. And so that was 1984. And let’s see, probably later that year you know, I got drafted by the Indiana Pacers and we were playing against the Chicago bulls and the tables were reversed. Michael caught it on, on the opposite side from where I was kind of under the basket and he beat his man and came baseline and I went over to help.

And I was a step slow, which was often the case for me and Michael Jordan did his thing and went up and slammed dunked it. But so, so interesting that because it it’d be interesting to know how many other people could claim that they had the pleasure and honor of being dunked on by Michael Jordan, but also being able to turn the tables once again, years ago.

So that’s pretty much the story.

[00:05:24] Mike Klinzing: That’s a pretty small list. I would have to guess. That have had both of those things happen to them. I would guess that that list is pretty small.

[00:05:32] Devin Durrant: Yeah. It’s funny. It’s funny because I didn’t play, I didn’t last long in the NBA, but several years ago I noticed somebody posted the video of Michael Jordan dunking on Devin Durrant.

And I thought, well, you could choose a lot of other people, maybe Michael Jordan ducking on Patrick Ewing Elijah one, or someone else more prominent, but it’s out there.

[00:05:57] Mike Klinzing: There you go. Hey, it’s when you have it preserved on film, there’s no arguing, correct. There’s no arguing that it happened. Nobody can, nobody can dispute it.

It was probably back in the era when certainly when you were playing college basketball and in your early in your pro career, things were not quite as. Predominant on video, at least let’s put it that way. So even NBA games, it’s probably harder to find games in their entirety and highlights from the era when you were playing, compared to where it is today, where not only do you have every single highlight, but you probably have 14 or 15 different angles of every highlight and all the things that are going on.

It’s a little bit of a different world today. J just be glad you didn’t have social media back then. You would’ve been like trending for like a week.

that, that video. Yeah. It’s funny. It’s funny how it’s funny, how that works. It’s definitely funny how things, how things have changed. So let’s go back in time, even earlier than 1984.

[00:06:55] Devin Durrant: Go ahead. I was just going to add one more story that sure. Go for it. That might be interesting is Michael and I came out in the same draft.

So 1984, we’re both rookies and, and, and I had the opportunity to play against him in his very first professional game. It was pre-season in Peoria, Illinois. And just some more, some more Michael Jordan trivia, I guess. And the interesting thing about that was as we warmed up, a lot of the chatter on our side of the court was, was, Hey, look at Jordan’s shoes because they’re red and black and white.

And they, they were revolutionary at the time. The season started and he got fined because they weren’t consistent with the league’s dress code. But that was the debut, that preseason game of air Jordans. We all know the history there. It’s amazing.

[00:07:54] Mike Klinzing: The way that the shoe game has changed from back then, where those shoes were revolutionary.

And now you watch an NBA game and. Every guy has on some different version of neon or this or that. There was, there was an arrow back when you and I were playing where everybody wanted the team shoe, right? Everybody, you wanted everybody to have the exact same shoe. And that was always a big decision. I know, as a high school player, that was a big decision.

Hey, what’s the team shoe going to be this year? And now it’s just, everybody tries to get the most outrageous colors they can to showcase, showcase their individualism. It’s totally, it’s totally different. I have one more question. I have one more Jordan question for you, please. What’s when you think about seeing him in person playing with him on the same floor, was there anything about him that struck you, obviously the skill level and who he became and all those things, but just maybe from.

Physical appearance standpoint or the way he carried himself. Was there anything that just stood out to you the first time you around him, his charisma? I don’t know what it was, but was there something that really caught your eye or really that you noticed that you’re like, man, this guy he’s, he’s something else?

[00:09:08] Devin Durrant: Yeah. You know, when I was playing against Jordan, this again, this was 1984, 85 and they were in the same division. So we played the Bulls six times and there was one time when he was guarding me and I had the ball on the wing and I was looking inside of the post. And so, so what I’d always done to make that pass was because simply, maybe fake a bounce pass and then come up and, and, and throw an overhead, pass down to the low post.

I’d done it hundreds thousands of times. And. In this particular case, I, I did my same thing. I made a sharp fake down below and came up and threw it. Essentially I’m going to throw it right over. Jordan’s head down to the low post. And he, he caught the ball. He caught my pass as my defensive player that never happened to me before never happened to me since.

And I was just in awe of how quick his hands were, what a tremendous athlete the man was.

[00:10:23] Mike Klinzing: I had an opportunity when I was, I think it was after my, so it was either after my sophomore year or junior year of college. I had an opportunity to go work at the, at his camp outside of Chicago. And I, at one point had an opportunity to, I walked by him in a hallway.

Like I came around the corner and. He and his group of people was coming, were coming around the corner the other way. And I’ll never forget just the physical sort of presence that he had. And the thing that stuck out to me more than anything was how skinny his calves and ankles were. Huh. And I just remember looking at it going, oh my God.

Like there was like, he just looked every single part of him just looked like a fast Twitch muscle fiber. I’m like, there’s nothing but skin wrapping muscle. I’m not sure there was, I don’t know, what his body fat level was when he was at his peak back then in 90, 91, 92. But it was, it was probably as close to zero as any human being could physically be.

Cause I just remember him being. his, his calves and, and ankles being super skinny. And that’s, it’s funny what you, what you remember, but that’s what sticks out to me. When I think about that encounter. When I walked by him, when I was within two or three feet of him, that’s what, that’s what I remember.

That’s what I was struck by was just kind of the way he carried himself. And then the fact that his, his calves and ankles were so skinny and then the most disappointing part for me dev, and I never got a chance to get dunked on by Jordan because Ty typically at those camps, my understanding of it was that the college guys who were there, that he would always play on the last night when the college guys were there playing pickup basketball after camp.

Sure. And the, the week or the whatever, the three days the weekend that I was there, the he didn’t come to that. He didn’t come to that, that last night to play pickup basketball. And the rumor that ran through the camp, I, I don’t know if it was confirmed or not, was that he was. Out gambling somewhere with Mike Ditka.

So I don’t know if that was true or not true, but that was supposedly, that was supposedly the rumor that’s supposedly where he was, that he had a, he had a opportunity to go out and do some high rolling with Mike Ditka. And so he skipped the skipped, the counselor pick games, but it would’ve been, it would’ve been quite a thrill.

I would’ve loved to have joined at least half your club. I had no chance of joining the dunk on Michael Jordan club. So I would’ve only been trying to get in the dunked the, the dunked on club. Cause I had no chance of the dunking on Michael Jordan. Let’s put it that way. So

[00:12:58] Devin Durrant: no, that’s great. You know, it’s just, isn’t amazing for me, he’s the greatest player that we’ll ever see in, in my lifetime.

You know, here we are, 30, 40 years later. Talking about our experiences with Michael Jordan. Yes. What a privilege to be able to have been a part of that era and the impression that Michael Jordan made on the game.

[00:13:23] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. I just can’t foresee. I mean, it’s probably going to happen at some point, but the combination of athleticism, competitiveness, mental, mental toughness, and I’ve always said this Devin on the podcast, and anytime, any time anybody wants to talk, Michael Jordan, I’m always happy to talk Michael Jordan, because when I watch basketball and I watch athletes in general, there’s really nobody that has ever come close to him in terms of a guy that I just expected him to figure out a way to win

And it didn’t matter what the situation was. It’s like, you never doubted. Now that didn’t mean he always won games. Cause obviously he lost plenty of games in his career, but he was a guy that you. I never doubted him. I would watch games and think somehow some way he’s going to get it done. And when he didn’t, you were surprised.

And I think in a lot of other cases, even with the best athletes, you just don’t have that same sense of certainty. And I’ll never forget the shot over Byron Russell and kind of the walk off, even though he came with the wizards. I remember exactly where I was. I remember exactly the thought that I had that flashed through my head.

I’m like, this is perfect. Like this just summarizes who this guy is and all the attributes that you have to have to be a great player. He had every single one of ’em and you start with the fact that he was tremendously gifted as an athlete. And then there are a lot of guys that are tremendously gifted as athlete, as athletes that don’t maximize what they have.

And I think that’s probably the greatest thing you can say about him is that he took. The unbelievable talent that he was blessed with. And he got every single ounce out of that talent. And there aren’t many guys, you can say that about,

[00:15:09] Devin Durrant: Oh, I agree with you a hundred percent.

[00:15:12] Mike Klinzing: All right, let’s go back in time a little bit to when you were a kid, tell us about some of your first experiences, the game of basketball and what you remember about those first experiences.

[00:15:25] Devin Durrant: Well, my father, he loved basketball. His older brother was, was one of the great pioneers in basketball in the state of Utah. And my father always wanted to be like his older brother, but he didn’t have the same basketball fortunes. And so for him, it was important to have a basketball court wherever we live while we grew up as young kids, we didn’t have much money.

So we kind of pour the concrete for our basketball courts. And gather the neighborhood and whoever else to finish concrete. And so I say that because the first two basketball courts I had were very uneven and very unprofessionally finished, but you, you never knew where the ball was going to bounce because of those uneven courts.

So I went on to be a good ball handler and I have to give my dad credit for that, for those terrible concrete basketball courts that we had to grow up on. But one of the clearest memories I have was, was a time I think it was in, well, I know it was in fourth grade, but after school we had a little pickup game out in the asphalt and 11 guys showed up and so they started choose up sides and I wasn’t getting picked.

And I feared what the outcome might be. And sure enough, when it came down to two guys for one spot, they chose the other guy. And so I was, I was left out because in his little fourth grader, I started cry and I think we ended up playing six on five that day, but I felt that sting of rejection and I loved sports growing up and loved basketball in particular.

And, and even as a young boy, I was determined to get better. I didn’t want to be the one that was rejected. I didn’t want to be the one that was left out and fortunate for me. I had an older brother who was four years older than I was. And through the years, he, he kind of took me under his wing and. Helped me and guided me so that I didn’t have to feel that sting of rejection anymore,

[00:17:49] Mike Klinzing: As you went about getting more serious about the game and really thinking about what it was going to take to get better, what did that look like for you as a player growing up in the late seventies, early eighties, thinking about just, Hey, I want to be the best basketball player I can be.

We all know that the basketball system has changed in terms of how kids play and grow up in the game today compared to when you were a kid or when I was a kid. So just talk a little bit about how you went about improving and becoming a better player, sort of in your high school years.

[00:18:27] Devin Durrant: Yeah. Hey, I just want to mention how much I enjoy your show.

I just, I listened to Tuck Taylor. Oh, well, thanks. Yeah, tuck was awesome. Yeah. I love the conversation, particularly the part about playing out in the playground and who’s got winners and things like that. That really resonated with me because that that was part of my experience, but I didn’t really know what it would take to become a good basketball player growing up until I hit the eighth grade in the eighth grade I made the mistake or at least I thought it was a mistake at the time to try out for the ninth grade team.

And I understood the ninth grade coach was a little crazy. And, but I figured, Hey, I’m probably just going to get cut. I’ll go back to the seventh and eighth grade team and, and everything will be okay. But I believe that to get better, you had to play against older guys. So I thought I’ll give it a go.

Well, as it turns out, I was the only eighth grader to make the ninth grade team. And I learned quickly that, that it was a mistake because this coach was so demanding and but I hung in there, stuck it out. And that was really the most critical basketball year for me in my entire life, a as a young eighth grade boy competing for this coach who was, was so driven and would drive us.

And I hated every second of every practice of that, that year. But that’s when I learned what it was going to take to be a good basketball player. And I look back on that and, and I just love that, man. His name is Rick Boles. I can’t thank Rick Boles enough for how he taught me what it was going to take to be a good basketball player, the effort, the work.

And he laid the foundation for me as a basketball player. And what I thought was just misery throughout my little eighth grade year. Really latest solid foundation for my development. Not only as an athlete, but, but as a man and forever grateful for, for dear Rick bolus.

[00:20:52] Mike Klinzing: So once you knew what it took, how did that change your approach of what you did to practice, to find playground games, to find pickup games?

Just what did it look like day to day for you as you’re trying to get better and maximize yourself as a basketball player?

[00:21:13] Devin Durrant: For me, it was really, I just lived it.  I realized that, that it was going to take a level of commitment that I hadn’t understood previously. I grew up playing baseball and football, but after that year with coach Boles, I realized this was just going to be part of my life.

And so that’s when I started spending time in the summers at the playgrounds on my court at the side of the house with, with my best friend. And that was what we ate and slept. Every chance we had to play basketball, that’s where we wanted to be. And I just recognized, realized the commitment that if you are striving for excellence, it’s not a part-time pursuit.

[00:22:05] Mike Klinzing: Were you organized in the way that you approached getting better? So in other words, did you put together. A plan of, Hey, this is what I’m going to work on today. Or was it more, I go out to the court and I’m doing my thing, and I’m just trying to get better kids today. Clearly you have so many more resources than what you or I had.

You can go on YouTube and find whatever workouts you want to find out. find and work on this or that. But I’ve told this during the podcast a couple times, Devon, that when I think back to when I was a high school and college player, I basically had two workouts. I did one that I would do when I was by myself.

And then I had another workout that I liked to do, or if I had somebody that would rebound for me or a partner that was also a basketball player that was working on their game, that we’d shoot and go through a series of things. But my creativity level was, was about as close to zero, as you could get.

When I look back on now, what I did and not that the stuff that I did wasn’t valuable because it was, but I just think about how many other things that I could have incorporated into what I did to make myself an even better player. So when you think. Your experience working on your game, how much did you plan out what it was you were going to do on a daily basis?

And how much of it was just, Hey, I’m hooking up with my friend on the court, in the backyard, or I’m fine at a pickup game. Which one of those better? Were you, were you a planner or were you more of just, Hey, this is life and I’m going to find basketball every given day.

[00:23:30] Devin Durrant: Yeah, for me, it was the latter.

I just wanted to play, I love the competition. I love the comradery on the playground and wherever you could find a game, that was what I was hungry for. I, I did some skill development, but I found that the most effective way to hone my skills was, was through competition. I did have one experience when I was, this was between my junior and senior year in high school.

I would go up to the local university, which was BYU and. Try to find a, a pickup game there. And one day, one of the by players took me aside. He happened to be hanging out there one day and he took me aside and, and I was just a skinny kid. And he said, have you, have you spent much time in the white room and said, no I hadn’t even given that much thought, but he said, let me take you over here.

And let me show you how to, how to lift some weights. And, and he took me under his wing and because he was a prominent college basketball player and, and I was a nothing high school kid and took me into the weight room showed me how to lift and was really a blessing and a friend to me because that’s what I needed to make my game better was I needed to put a little beef on my bones.

And Mike May took the time to help me figure that out and guide me along on my path.

[00:25:13] Mike Klinzing: So that became a long-term relationship then I assume.

[00:25:17] Devin Durrant: Absolutely. We had dinner with Mike and Carol maybe two weeks ago. And this all started almost 40 years ago. While I was in high school. And I got to tell him again how much I appreciated himtaking a junior in high school under his wing.

[00:25:37] Mike Klinzing: When you think about the pickup basketball that you played, what are some of the biggest lessons, whether it’s specific to basketball skill development, or maybe it’s something just on the more human side of it, more of the, what we would now call the culture side of it and just your personality developing that.

As part of pickup basketball. Just tell me a little bit about what you drew from your experiences on the playground.

[00:26:10] Devin Durrant: For me, it was in a way maybe I didn’t realize it at the time, but looking back, it was almost magical how you could go to a, a park and team up with four total strangers and compete with them for an hour or two or three, and how this chemistry, this bonding would take place.

And at, at the end of that period, it was as if you’d been friends for a lifetime. And I just love that bonding experience with people that you wouldn’t find anywhere else, other on a basketball court competing together. Passing, sharing the basketball, helping out a teammate, just the magic that takes place on a basketball court.

And I sought time and time again. And I relish that because oftentimes today the kids you’re playing with, you’ve known him for 10 or 12 years, and you’re only 15 years old. and, and certainly there’s a benefit to that, but I just love that magic that would take place in, in pick-up basketball games.

[00:27:34] Mike Klinzing: It’s something that kids don’t get to experience today, because as you said, oftentimes, they’re playing with teammates that they’ve known for a long time. Not that they met 10 seconds before the game started. And when you’re out there and you’re playing pickup basketball, you just get an opportunity, as you said, to interact with so many different people.

From so many different walks of life at all different ages. And I think you learn so many things about yourself as a person, in addition to all the benefit that you get as a basketball player. And I’ve often said that I’m so thankful that I grew up in the era where I did. I think it was probably pretty close to the heyday of outdoor pickup basketball in the, in the eighties, maybe early nineties.

And then now it’s pretty much gone away and I don’t think it’s ever coming back. And I just think that we’ve, we’re missing out on. As you said, it was, it was just a magical time to be a part of that playground pick up basketball scene. I just think about all. The interesting characters that were a part of the different courts that I went to and the people that I interacted with of all different ages and all different abilities and just the nicknames and people that had different kinds of playing styles and the way that players would shoot the ball.

And nowadays, everybody kind of has textbook for, but back then, everybody had these weird, funky, different kinds of shots, and everybody had a different way of playing and a style that you just, you just don’t see that anymore, because I don’t think that players had the opportunity creative the way that you or I, or other players on the playground were because when you were out on your driveway or you were at the playground, your mom, your dad, your coach, they weren’t out there watching you.

And so you could kind of experiment and do what you wanted. Whereas kids today, they always are kind of on the, under the watchful live and adult. And I think it’s stifle some of that uniqueness and that creativity that you and I were able to experience as basketball players.

[00:29:38] Devin Durrant: I love that thought, Mike and  I might call you West for the rest of this interview.

[00:29:45] Mike Klinzing: Hey, go for it, because you will now be in a select, you’ll be in a select group of people who call me west. For those of you who don’t know in the last on that episode with Tuck Taylor, I talked about how I had a guy that kind of befriended me as a, he was probably at the time I felt like he was really old, but he was probably 27 or 28 when I was 14, 15.

And he was just a guy that looked out for me. And at some point he started calling me Jerry West and he’d always be like, Jerry West is on my team and let’s, let’s get Jerry West in this game. And before you know, it, that sort of became my nickname on the local. Playground at the rec park where I used to play all the time.

So people who knew me from that era, so many of ’em called me West. And there’s not a lot of ’em that I still see anymore. But every once in a while, I’ll bump into somebody and I’ll be with maybe my family or some other people that I know. And somebody will say, Hey West. And everybody will look at me like, what’s going on?

Who, what do they even, what are they even talking about? So then you have to tell the whole story or whatever, but it’s just funny when you think back to the number of guys that had, that had nicknames and different stories and things that people it’s just, I mean, it’s crazy the stories that you can, you can tell from pickup basketball and just the, again, the characters of pick basketball are just are so interesting.

[00:31:08] Devin Durrant: Yeah. Love that’s good example of just some of the relationships, the experiences that, that took place. On these random pickup games and I’m sure the younger people listen to this. Think these old guys just reminiscing about the good old days. and I’m sure they’ve got wonderful things that are happening for them, but those were sweet time.

Sweet, sweet, sweet times. And I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky. So between Kentucky and Indiana, we always felt like that was the, the heart of basketball. And anyway, it’s kind of fun to turn back the clock reminisce a little bit with, with you two. So thanks.

[00:31:55] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. Yeah, it’s a fun era for, without question.

I think it I’ve often said that I got to do some pretty cool things in my organized basketball career, but a lot of my fondest memories come from pick up basketball when I really go back and think about the amount of time that I spent. In so many gyms around Cleveland and so many playgrounds and just the people that I was able to meet and get a chance to interact with as a result of that, I, it’s just, you can’t duplicate it as you well know, you cannot duplicate those things.

So talk a little bit about how you end up at Bringham Young and your decision. I know you debated and you shared it in the book you debated whether or not you were going to go on a mission trip. So tell us a little bit about first, how you get to Brighma Young and then sort of take us through your thought process when it comes to whether or not you’re going to go on a mission.

[00:32:45] Devin Durrant: Yeah. As I mentioned, I, I spent my junior high years in Louisville, Kentucky, and we spent a lot of time at Freedom Hall watching the University of Louisville Cardinals. And we would play outside our, my basketball court by my house was right next to a very busy street and Newberg road. And. So my friend, Alex and I, we would be out there playing one on one and things.

We dreamed that someday Denny Crum, the old university of Louisville coach would, would drive by and he would stop and want to know our names. And I’m sure you’ve been there. And, but, but coach Crum never stopped. And so then I moved back to Utah and played my high school basketball in Utah. And then my senior year, I started getting get noticed and University of Louisville recruited me University of Kentucky and University of Utah and BYU primarily.

We were playing in the state tournament and coach Crum sent his assistant and it was bill Olson at the time all the way across the country to visit and talk about university of Louisville. You know, I always thought, Hey coach, you could had me signed years ago. If you had just stopped come and talk to us there on our, our court near Newberg road.

But anyway, I looked at the University of Louisville and Kentucky and loved the University of Utah. But in the end, just Brigham young university had everything that I was hoping for. And so signed up there as a freshman under Frank Arnold and just had some amazing teammates. I was teammates with, with Danny Ainge and Fred Roberts and Greg Kite, they all went on to just tremendous careers in the NBA and, and other dear friends, great coaches I grew up as a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints.

And one thing I always dreamed about was being a missionary for my faith. So normally you would go on a mission at 19 and that’s 18 now, but I thought, well, I’m really enjoying basketball. Do I really want to interrupt my basketball career to be a missionary? So gave it a lot of thought and a lot of prayer and, and eventually came to the conclusion that, yes, I did want to be a missionary and people at that time would say don’t go on a mission because it’d be the end of your basketball career.

And I just settled in my mind. I thought God has been so good to me. Maybe this is an opportunity for me to give back in some small way. And so after my sophomore year, I was assigned to mission in Madrid, Spain, and I got the opportunity to learn the Spanish language and I put basketball on hold for two years and just had a, a marvelous time inviting other people to come to Christ in Spain.

And I could talk for hours about, about that, that experience. But at the conclusion of those two years, I came back again to, to BYU. And what I found was that basketball had become a little stale for me before my mission. And when I returned,  I was nowhere near basketball shape that took a long time to regain, but basketball again was fresh for me.

It was exciting. And I was anxious. I, I returned home in April and was anxious to get back on the hardwoods competitively that fall and things turned out well after my mission and nothing of a good memories from the mission experience. And post-mission had some great teammates again, we had some successes in the NCAA tournament and that wrapped up my college career.

[00:37:08] Mike Klinzing: What was your favorite part of the city of Madrid? What do you remember when you think of that particular trip and obviously you had the, the mission itself and, and what you were trying to do, but just when you think about the city, what do you remember about the city of Madrid?

[00:37:26] Devin Durrant: For me at the top of the list always is just the, the people a as you find friends, create relationships, And, and you share a message of faith and it, it, it just it’s creates such a bond with, again, it’s like the old playground where you, you, you, you bond with, with strangers in a different, but similar way you knock on someone’s door and they become a friend for a lifetime because you have common ground, which is a belief in Jesus Christ and his gospel.

And so when I think about Spain, it’s just those sweet relationships. That’s at the top of the list, but then I, I just love the culture, the food, the music everything a about the country of Spain is, is, is just sweetness on so many different levels. And  I ended up marrying my wife, as a result of my experience in Spain I sent three of my children to Spain.

Two of them found their spouses in Spain in different ways. So Spain is a very dear country to our family.

[00:38:48] Mike Klinzing: How long did it take you when you got over there before you felt comfortable as a 19 year old kid going out of the country, living by yourself, how long did it take you to sort of wrap your head around where you were, what you were doing and really feel comfortable where you were enmeshing yourself completely in the culture?

[00:39:11] Devin Durrant: Yeah. I love that question. Thanks with, with the missionary experience, they prior to serving you attend a missionary training center where, where you learn the basics of the Spanish language. And so I was at that center for six weeks. And when I went there, I, I knew two words in Spanish, which were gata and Leche cookie and milk.

And, but I left thinking that that I could communicate in Spanish. And so I was excited and finally got to the country of Spain and all missionaries. They have a companion. So you have an older companion who can, can speak the language and look out for you. But I quickly realized it was, I was on a train headed to my first apartment, my first area.

And, and I was speaking with someone and I realized that I could not understand a word that they were saying. And, and here I thought, wow, I’ve, I’ve learned some basic Spanish from my missionary training experience, but on day one, I, I was lost. And it, it took me really about three months in the country of Spain to, to get a good grasp on the language.

And when I say a good grasp, I mean, I could follow the train of the conversation, and then I knew what I wanted to say, but still didn’t have the ability to express it well. So I would say it took me about six months before I felt comfortable really having a good conversation with a, with a native Spaniard.

And, and from there over time, as you can imagine, you get more comfortable with that beautiful language, but it was certainly a struggle to communicate in, in those early months of my mission.

[00:41:10] Mike Klinzing: I think it’s such a great experience to talk. We’ve talked to lots of guys that have had the opportunity to go and.

Play overseas and almost all of ’em just talk about the opportunity to go and just be a part of the culture of the countries, where they went and obviously to varying degrees, some guys they initially get over there. They’re kinda like I just stayed in my room and didn’t do a whole lot. And then there’s other guys that are like, I completely buy into everything in the country and, and be able to really get out.

And as you said, meet the people and interact with them and just become sort of a part of the fabric of the city or the country where they are. And it’s just, to me, it’s such a valuable experience for young people. It’s one of the things that I wish I would’ve got the opportunity to do because you only get one chance when you’re younger to be able to have that opportunity to go and, and travel and do those kinds of things, especially when you don’t have the family and the other responsibilities that you.

Get as you get older. And so I think for anyone who gets an opportunity to do that, it’s just a, such a special, special time in your life. And then you come back, obviously, and as you said, your enthusiasm for the game of basketball is renewed your upbringing young, you’re having a lot of success. When do you start to think about realize, consider the fact that maybe an NBA career is in your future?

[00:42:34] Devin Durrant: You might think that that was always part of my thought process, but frankly it wasn’t. I was thinking when I was in high school, wouldn’t it be amazing to play at the college level. And, and then as that experience happens early on, I still wasn’t thinking about the NBA, but when I came back from, from Spain I was about five or six games.

And I think I was the leading scorer on our team and, and started to be one of the leading scores in the country. And I certainly didn’t expect that to happen after my mission, but then the idea starts to present itself. Maybe I could play at the next level. Maybe I could play in the league.

And things really came together for me after my mission and senior year turned out well. And, and then  there’s the talk of, Hey, Will he get drafted and if he’ll get drafted, what round will he get drafted? And so you hear that, but it the NBA was always a, a dream that was too far distant not even within reach, but as, as time passed through my senior.

I got a sense of, Hey, maybe I can compete at the next level.

[00:44:06] Mike Klinzing: What did the process look like after you graduate in terms of preparing for the draft? Clearly, what guys do today is completely different from what you would’ve experienced, but just what, what, what did you go about doing to prepare yourself?

However, however we want to define, prepare, which, as I said is much different than what a player would go through today, but just, what do you remember about that time from the end of your senior season and senior year at Brigham young to the NBA draft, the intervening time? What was happening in life?

[00:44:44] Devin Durrant: Yeah, again, it was a different time compared to today in so many different ways, but again, the best preparation was just competing with  the best wherever you could find it.

Before my senior year I played. For the, a team that, that represented the United States in the university games. So I was teammates with Charles Barkley and Carl Malone and Johnny Dawkins and others. And, and so we have to spend six weeks together there. And that was very helpful for my senior year. But again, that competition during the senior year was, was probably the best competition or the best preparation I could have for the NBA draft.

And then, then once the season was over again, you’re, you’re doing your best to find competitive situations. So you can continue to improve, but proof, but it it’s a struggle to replicate that. But  we did what we could and the season ends in April. And then the draft is in June.

And at that point, you’re headed to your new city, which for me, was Indianapolis and playing in summer league. And trying to get ready to, to play in the league

[00:46:01] Mike Klinzing: When you first get there and you step on an NBA floor for the first time in a practice setting in a summer league setting, what do you remember about that moment?

Because even though you didn’t necessarily dream about it as a reality, I’m sure at some point there was some recognition of, Hey, this is something that I’d love to be able to do someday. Anybody who picks up a ball at some point probably thinks about it. So just what do you remember about how that felt to actually say, Hey, I’m here, I’m going to have an opportunity to play in the NBA.

What did that feel like? What are, what are your thoughts? What do you remember about it?

[00:46:40] Devin Durrant: Well, it makes me think back when I was in high school, after my senior year, I was a, McDonald’s all American and I went to my first, first game. We played back in Washington, DC. So the us all stars. Played against the, the DC all stars.

And I remember the first practice there. I walked in, I’m just a, a skinny white kid from Utah. And I walk into this gym with just some, some men, some athletes you know, Mark Aguirre and Cornelius Thompson. And there were three times my size and, and quicker and could jump higher and the list goes on and it was very intimidating at first.

But over time, I realized I can play with these guys.  I went to another all star game in Philadelphia and gained some confidence and, and then played in the Derby classic, the us all stars against Kentucky, Indiana. And I was the MVP of that game. And so over time you get more comfortable.

So now back to, to the summer before training camp with the Indiana Pacers you in a way you, you feel that, that uncomfortable feeling of, I don’t know if I belong with these guys, they were so good. There were so much competition. And in the summer, these are guys who are trying to make the roster that haven’t been drafted.

So I’m the first pick of the second round. And so I had the advantage of thinking, oh, okay. That there is some security in knowing that that I’m a draft pick, but it was just so incredibly competitive. And I quickly sense that this is not the same game as I’m accustomed to in college. And.

I love that competitive nature, again, that we’ve talked about from, from the playgrounds as a kid, to, to now you’re doing it where it could be your livelihood. And anyway, one thing led to another and over time I felt more comfortable and confident as a rookie through these summer leagues experiences.

And then you go in the fall into training camp and you experience some of those same feelings again, thinking, wow, I’m not sure I belong here because these athletes are just so gifted. And I just hope that I could find a place there. And, and fortunately, I just had some great teammates, coaches and developed a certain level of confidence there at Indiana.

Wish I could have stayed a bit longer, but. After my first season, I was cut my second training camp and had to move on, but it was a sweet experience for that season that I have to spend with the Indiana Pacers.

[00:49:47] Mike Klinzing: Who was your favorite guy that season that you hung out with?

[00:49:51] Devin Durrant: You know, I loved really a lot of guys ver Vern Fleming, Jerry Sichsting, Clark Kellogg, Herb Williams, Steve Stepanovich and, and the list goes on Bill Garett. And,

and so we shared different experiences over the course of the season, but anyway, great athletes, great men.

[00:50:16] Mike Klinzing: And you realize at some point that the NBA is going to be that you’re going to transition out of your playing career and you start looking at. Opportunities outside of basketball for a kid like you, who basketball have been a huge part of your life, your identity, as you transition out of the game.

What was that like for you to sort of reassess who you were and redefine yourself in maybe a different way than you had previously in terms of framing the game as being so important?

[00:50:58] Devin Durrant: Yeah. Good question. The, after my year with Indiana Phoenix picked me up and I went through training camp with them and the preseason, and then about four games into the season.

They let me go. And that was hard because you start thinking, well, maybe I do need to get on with life. Fortunately I had the opportunity to play in Europe, go back to Spain as a basketball player. Which for me was, was like going back home. It was very sweet, had a couple of years there in Spain and then spent some time playing in France, got cut there.

And, and my wife told me, okay, I think it’s time to get a real job. and we had three children at the time. And so I went back and made that transition. And frankly, it was tough. You know, here I was really defined by others, defined by myself as a basketball player. That was my life. And now I was realizing, Hey, it is time to transition.

And, and I went through some rough months. I ended up getting a job with word perfect corporation. And I went from being a, a hero where people wanted my autograph to being a sales guy where oftentimes people didn’t even want to speak to me. So it, it was a tough transition, but over time, we settled in and got comfortable with things.

And I realized, and I talk about this some in my book that there’s, we learn different values from different people at different stages of our lives. And I realized that some of the values that I had embraced as an athlete, self-discipline hard work and focus and teamwork would also translate into the business world.

And, and so it was an opportunity to use those talents and values that I embraced earlier and apply them in the world of business in the world of corporate America. And I enjoyed that space for about four years and, and then a dear friend and I, we started a venture and, and I realized that I was an entrepreneur at heart and that was the direction I wanted to go and got involved in real estate investment.

And that’s been a good ride to the present day.

[00:53:33] Mike Klinzing: How did you recognize that entrepreneurship was the right path for you as opposed to continuing to be an employee? Was it an aha moment or was it more of a slow realization that, Hey, I really would like to work for myself.

[00:53:51] Devin Durrant: What a great question. Well, for me, I read a book called creating wealth. It’s a real estate investment book. For me, that was a trigger. I thought this is what I want to do, but I realized I wasn’t in a situation where I could really just start down that path. So I was involved in corporate America and had a wonderful job, great company.

But I think the trigger moment for me to leave was I was sitting in a meeting and I thought to myself,

I do not like being in meetings when I have no control over when the meeting ends. And I thought I want to do something where, where I’m in charge and we can make sure there’s no long speeches in my company, no long meetings in my company. And I can end the meeting whenever I choose. So that was the beginning of, of the end of my stint in corporate America and off to, to be an entrepreneur and either have some success or fall on my face.

And I was willing to take the risk.

[00:55:13] Mike Klinzing: Sink or swim. Right. You have to sink or swim when you’re out there in a world. There’s no doubt about that. Yep. Let’s dive into the book and I want to talk a little bit about, first of all, when I read this, the first thing that struck me about it was the idea that you have to first define your values, which you do in the book and you share. And the book follows along with the values that you’ve identified that are yours. And part of the book is for the reader to be able to go through and kind of workshop or worksheet the, the values that are important to them as the reader. So it’s not just, I copy Devin’s values and I go through the process.

It’s identifying what your values are. And I think that a lot of times, and this is where I think the book really does add value is we don’t. Sometimes we’re in such a hurry that we don’t always stop and figure out, Hey, what do I want? What should I be demonstrating in my life? What values do I want to pass along to my kids?

If I’m a parent, what values do I want the world to see that represent me? And I think just the process of slowing down and thinking about what are the values that are important to me. I think that just in and of itself, if, if, even if you stop there, I just think that there’s tremendous value in getting a better understanding and being self-aware when it comes to that.

So when you were putting together the book and you came up with the eight values that were part of each chapter, how did you go about what was your process for putting together that list as you were self-evaluating?

[00:56:59] Devin Durrant: Well, thank you. And I love the way you’ve summarized the book for me. I started thinking about what values are important to me and how do they impact the things that have meaning for me, the things that I value, how do they impact my employees, my spouse, my friends, my children, anyone that I associate with.

And as I went through the book, as I wrote the book, I think my list, I think I had 24 different values. That I wanted to include in the book  that had particular meaning for me, that that were important to me, but I quickly realized, Hey, I don’t want to people to lose interest here in this book.

So we have to shorten the list. So in the book, as you mentioned, there’s eight values. I call ’em my priority values that, that I’m have a special focus on right now that I’m working on in hopes of being a, a better employer and being a better grandfather and father and a husband and friend, et cetera.

And so having said that the book really is hopefully a model or a blueprint for someone else to say, well, Devin has his eight priority values, but my priority values are different. And I’m going to outline them. And I love what you said, because I think sometimes we go too fast in life and I think there’s always benefit in stopping and just saying, okay, what are my values?

I’m going to write down six to eight values. And I think simply that process tends to elevate those values. And, and it’s the beginning of our values impacting things that, that are so important to us. So I start the book with that question. What are your values? And the second question is what do you value?

And the third question is how do your values impact these things that you value? It’s a little bit of a tongue twister, but that’s the premise is you determine what your priority values are and they may change over time. And you determine what is most important to you. I say in the book, my life would be much less meaningful without blank.

Will you fill in that blank? And then throughout the book, it’s an opportunity to, to follow along. There’s a report card in there where, where you can measure the impact of your efforts through this report card. And the whole goal is to create Delta and Delta, the simplest definition or the mathematical definition of Delta is just a change or a difference.

So by focusing on a particular value, as it impacts something that’s important to you. For example, if one of my values is cheerfulness and one of the things that I value is my business. And if my employees are more cheerful, how does that impact my business. And can I create a small Delta or a small difference?

And that Delta may be simply, my employees are, are, are enjoy a more wholesome culture, but it can also mean my sales are up 5% because of an emphasis on this value of cheerfulness. So in a way the process is it could, my book could almost be called a workbook because as the reader, you’re asked to jump in to find your values, to find what you value and experience positive Delta over time, as you focus on your values,

[01:01:04] Mike Klinzing: As I read the book, what I went through, and I tried to look at it, and when I thought about what do I value, I looked at almost every one of the values that you shared.

I tried to look at that through. The lens of what I value is my family. So my wife and my kids, and we have lots of discussions at our house, whether it’s, while we’re eating dinner or just having conversations in the car about what it is that life is all about and how you can have a greater impact on the people around you and how you can be happy and what allows you as a human being to be happy.

And so when I got to your first value of optimism, my favorite story in that chapter is the one business is great. And , I’ll, I’ll, I’ll give my little synopsis of it, but basically, yeah, please guy has a guy, guy has a business and where’s a giant button that says business is great. And so. Customers are talking to him or he’s out there.

It’s just a conversation. And so even when business, maybe by definition, wasn’t great. He always had this button to remind him that business is great. And I think that when you talk about optimism and you talk about the messaging that you put out there, if you say to someone business is great, they’re much more likely to engage with you and talk to you and have a conversation.

And ultimately maybe build a relationship, whether that be a personal relationship or a business relationship or whatever it might be, because you want to know the guy who’s wearing the business’s great button. And it’s similar to, I read, I can’t remember now. I’m not going to be able to credit the person who said this, but it was basically a thread that I read on Twitter.

And this guy said that. one of the things that he did that has completely transformed his life. He said it used to be a person who he had lots of trouble in social settings and he just wasn’t very outgoing and he felt like he would go and he’d have these big plans to be able to meet and build relationships with people and he’d get there.

And he just was never able to kind of get over that hump. And he said, what changed for him was when somebody would ask him. And I know you have another story that we’re going to get to in a second, which is another one of my favorites, but this guy would just say my, my day, when somebody would ask him, how’s your day, he would just say amazing.

And then when you say, or here’s somebody say your day, their day’s amazing. Then the next question is, well, what makes it amazing? And then, so then he had to find reasons why his day was amazing. And so sometimes he’d really have something that made his day amazing and it would be some big, huge thing.

And other times it would just be. You know, it’s raining and I know I’m going to get to go home and curl up on the couch and read a good book because there isn’t a whole lot else to do. And I’ve really been wanting to read this book and he would just find these little things. And I just think the businesses great button reminded me of that story that we’ve been talking about with our kids, where you attract what you put out there into the world.

And that business’ great button to me was just a fantastic story about the power of optimism.

[01:04:38] Devin Durrant: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for sharing that. And it really warms my heart to hear about your experience because one of the goals that I have with the book is simply to have more conversations about values, similar to what you’re having with your kids.

You’re driving along and talking about things that that can make us happy. That is that’s part of my invitation is let’s have those conversations more often. There there’s so much ugliness in the world today that we need to be proactive and invite some uplifting conversations, certainly in our homes, in the car, as we drive, also in the workplace.

I think as we spend a little bit more time talking about some of the uplifting and wonderful things in the world. It can only make life sweeter. So thank you for mentioning the value of optimism too. I love the poem in there, promise yourself. And one of the points there is to look at the sunny side of everything and make your optimism come true.

And, and that’s what I love about the business’s great story is if we’re always looking at the bright side and, and we’re working in a positive. I think our optimism can bring about our hopes and but we have to plant that seed. We have to go down that positive path of optimism and, and great.

Not like we won’t have some struggles along the way, certainly, but I think we enhance the opportunity for success when we have that outlook.

[01:06:18] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. There’s no doubt that optimism brings something to the table. And I think it brings a change in your own mentality, but I also think it attracts other people who are optimistic and looking on the bright side.

And when you bring those kinds of people together, I think that’s where great things happen. And to me, business is great. It’s just, it’s just a perfect way of starting a conversation and starting it in such a positive way that it just brings people to you. And then that goes to a story that’s related to my, what kind of day are you having an amazing day?

There’s the story? Today’s my best day yet. So tell that story that goes along with the value of gratitude.

[01:07:01] Devin Durrant: Yeah, I love it is it’s a story that about my father, George, and the way he tells the story is often people say, well, how, how are you doing today? And the most common answer is fine.

And he wasn’t very happy with that answer. And he was always seeking a different answer, a different response to that question of how are you, or how you doing? And he experimented with a few things. And one day he was having a good day and somebody came up and said, Hey, George, how, how are you today?

And he said, this is my best day so far. And then he realized what he said. And he, he, he felt like he had found his answer, that when people asked him how he was doing his response would be. This is my best day yet. And he embraced that and still my father’s 90 years old. And if you see him on the street tomorrow, and he say, George, how you doing?

This is my best day so far. And with, with that kind of attitude, he then takes steps to do what he can to make it his best day. And like I say at night, he does, he enjoys watercolors and he’s just a bright light. Anytime you interact with him, you’ll leave feeling better about yourself, better about life.

And he’s certainly embraced that the op the value of optimism and figuring out how to make every day, the best day so far.

[01:08:43] Mike Klinzing: And I think it goes to just the idea of finding the small joys. In life, right? Because we all, when something great, that’s big happens to us. Of course, we’re thankful for that. But so often we kind of just like a minute ago, when we were talking about the idea that you are, you’re kind of going through life and things are coming at you so fast that you don’t have time to stop back and reflect and think about your values and think about who you are.

Because so often just the day to day life, we’re just going and going and going. We don’t have time to slow down. And I think this is my best day yet is clearly a conversation starter. If somebody said that to me, immediately, you would stop and say, well, what do you mean? Like, what’s, what’s what, what makes this the best day yet?

Cause there has to be something, cause it’s just not a normal answer. And obviously there are going to be some days where there is some big event that’s happened, that it might make sense that that was your best day yet. And then other times. it’s going to be a normal every day. So then what do you have to do as a person?

You have to look for something that makes it your best day. And when you do that, you’re being forced to look and show gratitude and be thankful for some of the little things that sometimes we just don’t notice and that we don’t, that we forget, and that ability to be mindful of our surroundings and of what’s going around and just all the things that we have.

I, I think it, there’s just, there’s just tremendous value in that. And, and to me, those were, those were definitely my two favorite stories in the book because they just kind of coincide with things that we’re constantly talking about here at our house, in terms of just the way that you put yourself out into the world and the way you open yourself up to even richer experiences and more people.

When instead of, as you said, coming back with the standard fine. Instead business is great. It’s my best day. My day’s amazing. Like all those things are just going to get people to react in a way that they wouldn’t ordinarily. Because most of the time that’s just kind of a perfunctory greeting where people aren’t even really listening to what the other person’s saying or what their response might be.

And there’s just so much value in being able to strike up those kinds of conversations and do it in a way that is positive, not just for the person wearing the button or the person saying that, but for the person who then is going to inquire and go, well, why is business great or why is this your best day yet?

And now you’ve put them in a good mood and you’re, you’re passing along something that it’s not just about you, but it also impacts other people.

[01:11:32] Devin Durrant: I love that. I love that thought, Mike, and I’ve been fortunate because I have a father who feels like every day is his best day. So far.

And I’m also married to a woman who appreciates the small things, the small joys in life. She points out the beauty in a flower and loves to see a full moon, but just some of those simple pleasures that, that are available to all of us, but we need to take the time to look and, and, and embrace those kind of things.

It’s one of the things I talk about in the book is what I call the V effect or the value, the value effect, which is simply if we choose to be more optimistic and embrace the value of optimism then, it not only impacts us, but like you mentioned, the people that interact with my father and say, why in the world is this your best day yet?

And it can have a conversation and business is great. That always leads to a conversation. And that person then goes about their day. And now they’re more up upbeat. They’re more optimistic because certainly our values are contagious and it’s that ripple effect, which I call the V effect that if you have that experience at work and, and your optimism, then you go home and you have that.

You take that spirit to interact with your spouse and your children. The it’s hard to measure the ripple effect of that kind of positivity.

[01:13:17] Mike Klinzing: It really does echo through life when you can bring those types of values to the table day in and day out. And I think it’s something that you have to practice and you have to really work at.

It’s not necessarily, always easy to do that, especially when you’re trying to do it for the first time. or you’re trying to do it on a consistent basis. Like it’s not easy. Every time somebody comes up and asks you, Hey, how was your day? There’s sometimes where you just want to say fine and move on. Right.

If you do it on a consistent basis, if you always answer with amazing, or if you always answer with this is my best day yet. I think that the point that going back to where I originally heard that amazing on that Twitter thread, the guy just said that it totally transformed his life because suddenly now people who, before weren’t interested in him at all now, suddenly he had said something that had peaked their interest.

And so he met so many interesting people just through that one change he made in his life. He attributed all these different things, his success as a business person, his success in his personal life and making more friends and just expanding his network, all these things he attributed to just that one simple change of how he answered the question.

Hey, how’s your day and the ripple effect that he had again, didn’t just affect him, but now it affects all the people that he’s interacting with. And I think that’s something that when you start talking about having an impact and having your values be a part of it, wow. Just again, Delta, right? The difference that you can make is really, that’s really what it’s, that’s really what it’s all about.

I want to highlight one other story and it’s another one that’s basketball related. And that’s the first story that you have in the chapter on integrity, about your teammate, who I’ll let you tell the story. Go ahead. You, you, you tell the story, basically there was a, a call that your teammate knew was incorrect, and then he had a very unusual response to that call.

[01:15:22] Devin Durrant: Yeah, this happened when I was, was playing basketball in Spain. After, after my time in the NBA had an opportunity to play in a city near Barcelona. And we were a few games into the season. And I knew my teammates fairly well at that point. And our point guard was a guy named Chave Rodriguez.

And so it was early in the game, maybe the second quarter or the second half of the first second part of the first happened. And the opposition had the ball and they were coming at us and one thing led another, the ball went out of bounds and it was clearly out of bounds on our team. So it should have been the other team’s ball, but the official called it that it was our ball.

And so for me, that just normally the official made a mistake, so play on and we went to take the ball out of bounds, threw it into Chavy our point guard. And Chave took the basketball and just threw it out of bounds and gave it back to the other team because he knew, we all knew that the official had made a mistake.

But like I said, normally before that incident, we would’ve just accepted it as normal that the official made a mistake, but not for Chavy that wasn’t good enough. He threw the ball out of bound. So in essence, so he could correct the official’s mistake and give the ball back to who it rightfully should have been.

[01:17:10] Mike Klinzing: I don’t think in all the years I ever played basketball, at least not in an official game. I think that happens a lot on the playground, which is probably a good place to learn that integrity, where you see it much more often, where players are calling their own foul and are responsible for. officiating the game, right?

Where a ball goes off somebody and they clearly admit, or two players talk, whatever. There’s, there’s a lot more of that that goes on in pick up basketball. I can honestly say, I don’t think I’ve ever seen that happen in a quote, real basketball game, a game that’s being officiated between two teams with uniforms on, I don’t think I’ve ever seen it.

And it speaks to the type of person that your teammate was. And I’m sure that I can honestly say that. I don’t know that I would’ve done that. And obviously I played a lot, lot of basketball in life and the fact that I’ve ever never seen that means that there’s probably a lot of other players that wouldn’t have, but it definitely goes a long way towards illustrating what integrity and that value is really all about.

And the respect that your teammates showed for your opponent, which I think is an important part of sports where. Right in the midst of camp here. And so we’ve been doing we’ve been doing our, our basketball camps the last couple weeks. And one of the things we always talk about is just making sure that you have respect for your opponents, because without them there’s nobody to play against and measure yourself against.

And I think sometimes we, I think sometimes we forget that, that webecause our, our, our opponent, we think, oh, they want the same thing that we do. They want to, they want to win. And we have to, we have to really get after them. We have to have build up some kind of bad feelings towards them instead of being thankful that we have somebody to play against.

And so that’s one of the things that we always try to talk about with the kids at camp is look, if I send you over to play at this basket and I say, all right, you’re playing against nobody like that. Game’s not going to be very much fun. So you better be thankful that you have somebody to play against and to measure yourself against.

And it’s not always easy, but none of these things are right. None of these things come super easy. They’re all things they have to be mindful of. And that you have to think about.

[01:19:15] Devin Durrant: Yeah, well said, Mike, I, it’s a great principle to be teaching and to have respect for our opponent. And as I got to know my teammate better that was just one example of the character that he had on the court.

And he certainly showed a lot of character off the court because as we all talk about basketball is great entertainment, great fun when we’re younger, but we all, we all have to hang it up at one point or the other. And some of the values that we learn from sports carry on, but it’s really about building character and, and having the kind of integrity off the court, but certainly even on the court with respect for our opponent.

And, and I always to remember that lesson that Chave taught us that just because the official made a mistake. Doesn’t mean we can’t make it right in some way or another.

[01:20:13] Mike Klinzing: There’s a great lesson there. And I think it’s one that if we could all learn that the world of sports and the world in general would certainly be much better.

I want to jump to the value of initiative and go to the story of 20,000 shots. And I’ve got a story that was told to me on the podcast by TK Griffith, who is a high school coach here at Akron Homan high school. And I’ll share that story. I’ll let you tell the story of the 20,000 shots and your teammates.

And then I’ll jump back in and tell my story, which is sort of related to this value of initiative.

[01:20:49] Devin Durrant: Sounds great. This happened for me when I was at, at BYU, it was after my freshman year, we had our team meeting as the season ended and the coaches said, okay, one thing we want everyone to do this summer.

We need, we need to be a better shooting basketball team. So we want everyone to make 20,000 shots over the course of the summer. And so when the coaches said that you kinda look around the room and some guys are looking down and some guys might even snicker thinking, there’s no way I’m going to make 20,000 shots over the course of the summer.

And so they gave us all of us documentation so we could keep track of the shots that we made. And so I went home and the way my mind works is okay, how many days are in the summer? And how many days, time back here at school, I have to face the coaches here. And, and so how many shots do I have to make a day?

And I was doing my math, trying to calculate it all out. And so that summer I started shooting baskets and I have two of my sisters, one older and one younger, they did a lot of rebounding for their brother over the course of the summer months. But in the end I made 20,000 shots throughout that summer.

And it took a long time. So we got back together that fall and I had my papers all marked up and we walked into the team meeting and the coaching staff said, okay, well, how did you do, did you all make your 20,000 shots? And you have the documentation. And there was a good group of us that had made 20,000 shots and shared that with the coaches.

And there were a few who made their, they said they made 20,000, but they, they didn’t have their documentation. It was lost somewhere along the way. And then, then, then there was one, one guy on our team again, named Mike Max. And Mike was just an amazing shooter, a very gifted high school player.

And his dad was his high school coach. And so we kind of went around how many shots he make 20,000, 20,000, 20,000. And they said, Mike, how many shots did you make? And he said, 100,000 shots. And we all looked at Mike, but no one questioned him because that’s the kind of guy he was. We knew he was a straight shooter.

If he said he made a hundred thousand shots, we believed him because I think he slept and ate his meals in the gym. And he really just a remarkable shooter. Would’ve had a great high school and pro career. Had a serious knee injury that, that didn’t allow him to compete at the level that he once did.

But, but he made, he took the initiative, he embraced that value and said, yeah, 20,000, isn’t good enough for me, I’m going to make 100,000 shots over the course of the summer. And, and he did it and he went on, became a very successful high school coach here in the state of Utah.

[01:24:20] Mike Klinzing: It’s a lot of shots. Number one, to get up in one summer. And I think when you talk about basketball and you can obviously apply this to any walk of life that you have to get started and then you have to stick with it. And when you do those two things, you’re ultimately going to end up having a good chance for success is there’s a guarantee.

No, but getting started with small steps and then sticking with it is a pretty good formula. Being successful at whatever you’re going to do. So my story that’s somewhat related to that. As I said earlier, we had a guest on TK Griffith, who is the head BA boys basketball coach at Archbishop Homan high school here in the state of Ohio.

And he told a story about a guy that I played college basketball against named, named Dave Jamerson and Dave played at OU. And he was drafted by the Houston rockets, which I believe he was the 14th pick, maybe in the NBA draft in 1990. And he had had some previous knee injuries. He ended up hurting his knee when he played with the rockets and he was the guy that could really, really shoot the ball.

And I think when he was playing against me, when he was a senior, I was a sophomore, I think he put up. I think he had 40, I want to say he had 48 points against me and not one, not one of those shots was, was I mean he just, he was the best. He was the best shooter I’ve ever seen. So TK told this story that one time there was one of his teammates a guy that I also knew and had played against and played with in the summertime named Steve Barnes, walked into the gym when Dave was in the gym, doing a shooting workout and Steve stood and watched Dave for 30 seconds a minute, just kind of watching what he was doing.

And Dave took a break at some point and stopped whatever drilling was he was doing. And Steve said, Dave, man I want to be able to shoot like you, like what can I do? Like, what do I, what do I have to do to be able tobecause shoot the ball like you? And he said, Dave turned to him and said, You’re a million shots behind dude, a million shots behind and, and like when you think about the idea of initiative, right?

Like at some point he started putting up shots and I don’t know, maybe he was nine. Maybe he was 15. Maybe he was who knows when he, when he started doing that. But the point is, is that he knew in his own mind that the reason why he was successful was not because he was born a great shooter. He had some tremendous gift, which I’m sure he did, but nonetheless, what got him, that was the initiative to start and to keep going and put.

However many shots he was putting up. It was a lot, let’s put it that way. And I just, ever since he told me that story, I just laugh because that’s a line that if you’re a great shooter, you could probably use when anybody asks you that same question, right. That, Hey, you want to be this good. It doesn’t that that doesn’t happen by accident.

It’s by putting a ton of shots up. So I love that story. When I read, when I read your story, it kind of reminded me of again, not exactly the same, but it’s certainly in a similar vein of, of guys who knew that their success was based upon their ability to go and do what was necessary in order for them to have success.

And, and both of their cases, obviously going above and beyond what was required of them to really become among the best shooters in college basketball at the time when they were playing. So just incredible.

[01:28:06] Devin Durrant: Yeah. What a, what a wonderful story. I just love that line. Yeah. You know, I’m a million shots ahead.  What a classic story.

[01:28:17] Mike Klinzing: all right. We are going past an hour and a half right now, Devin. So what I’d like to do is give you another opportunity to sort of summarize what you hope people get out of the book. Then let ’em know where they can find out more about the book, where they can buy the book, how they can reach out to you if they want to do that.

And then once you are done there, I will jump back in and wrap things up.

[01:28:43] Devin Durrant: That sounds great. I’ll just say, come find me at thevaluesdelta.com. That’s my website. That’s where you can get ahold of me also. I’ve posted a, a 13 minute animated video there of a story that my dad told to me years ago.

It’s about no tracks. The title is no tracks. The value of quiet service. And bring a tissue. It’s a tear jerker, at least for me, my eyes always get a little wet when I watch this video. So come to the website, the valuesdelta.com and check it out, enjoy a heartwarming story and video there.

But my main message really is one of hope and optimism. We talked about that a little bit earlier, but I think for all of us at least all of us are striving to get a little more out of life who are seeking some improvement in one form or another in our personal lives or in our companies, our organizations, our teams, that there’s the number one.

There’s so much good in the world. And sure there’s some not so good things in the world, but I think as we focus on the uplifting and the wholesome, as we take time to ask ourselves what are our values, and then we take some time and, and focus on a value or two at a time.

And we watch how that can impact the relationships that are important to us and our personal lives, but also in our corporate culture in our team culture that positive Delta can take place. And that it’s very rewarding and uplifting. And that that’s my hope. I is that through my message. The others can feel a little more joy, feel a little more fulfillment and satisfaction.

Both in the workplace, but also in their home with those, they loved dearly.

[01:31:08] Mike Klinzing: Devin, as I told you before, the book is really well written. I loved going through and hearing the different stories that you told that related to each one of the eight values that you chose to include in the book.

At some point here in the summer, I’m going to definitely go through and use the book as it was intended as a workbook to kind of go through and identify my own values. Once my life slows down a little bit, once I’m through my camp weeks, as we talked about, there’s not always time to be able to slow down and I need to do a much better job of that, but there’s just, I think a lot of value in what you’ve put together here for people.

So for coaches out there who are listening, who are a part of our audience, I would highly recommend picking up a copy of The Values Delta. And just going through it and thinking about where you are in life, and it can not only impact you on a personal level, but certainly as a coach on a professional level, I think you can have a tremendous amount of value.

So Devin, thank you for writing the book. Thank you for taking the time out of your schedule, to be a part of the Hoop Heads Pod. Really appreciate that. And to everyone out there. Thanks for listening. And we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.