Website – https://19nine.com/

Email – aaronjmeyer@gmail.com jbarnett@19nine.com

Twitter – @19nine_threads

Aaron Meyer & Josh Barnett from 19Nine Vintage Sports Apparel join us on this episode.  Josh is one of the founders of 19Nine while Aaron hosts the 19Nine Podcast.  Aaron & Josh know college basketball. They know the history, the rivalries, the championships, the nicknames, the eras, the legendary players and the historic coaches. This is, always has been, and forever will be their passion. 19Nine channels that knowledge and passion to create original designs tailored to the nostalgia of the epic moments in college basketball history.  The company sells officially licensed retro T-shirts and basketball shorts, taking throwback designs and making them look and feel modern “so you won’t look like Bird and Magic in 1979.”

We recently launched the Hoop Heads Mentorship Program.  We believe that having a mentor is the best way to maximize your potential and become a transformational coach. By matching you up with one of our experienced mentors you’ll develop a one on one relationship that will help your coaching, your team, your program, and your mindset.  The Hoop Heads Mentorship Program delivers mentoring services to basketball coaches at all levels through our team of experienced Head Coaches. Find out more at hoopheadspod.com or shoot me an email directly mike@hoopheadspod.com

Our roster of shows is growing so don’t forget to check out all our other podcasts on the Hoop Heads Pod Network including Thrive with Trevor Huffman, Beyond the Ball, The CoachMays.com Podcast, Player’s Court, Bleachers & Boards, The Green Light and our team focused NBA Podcasts: Cavalier Central, Grizz n Grind, Knuck if you Buck, The 305 Culture, Blazing the Path, #Lakers, Motor City Hoops, X’s and O’s: NBA Breakdown, Spanning the Spurs, LA Hoops, Thunderous Applause & The Wizards Hoops Analyst. We’re looking for more NBA podcasters interested in hosting their own show centered on a particular team. Email us info@hoopheadspod.com if you’re interested in learning more and bringing your talent to our network.

Take some notes on the business of coaching as you listen to this episode with Brian Stanchak from the BDS Agency.

What We Discuss with Aaron Meyer & Josh Barnett

  • How the two of them worked together at a middle school in Indiana and would talk hoops during breaks
  • Aaron played in the last single class Indiana State Tournament
  • The story of how Josh and 3 friends started 19nine as a t-shirt company in Indianapolis in 2012
  • The company name comes from the old college three point line
  • Why getting licensing rights from Butler was a turning point for the business
  • “What has been seen, cannot be unseen”
  • The challenge in recreating old logos and colors when working with schools
  • The challenge of starting the business while teaching full-time and working with friends
  • Being smart in your growth as an entrepreneur
  • Working to establish the culture of the business
  • How storytelling within 19nine led to their blog and podcast
  • Why Aaron and Josh love the retro practice shorts
  • The influence of Eastbay and Slam Magazine on basketball culture
  • Today’s basketball environment vs. the old school pickup culture at the park
  • The demise of shirts and skins
  • Josh’s favorite college team of all time – The 1987 Indiana Hoosiers with Steve Alford
  • Aaron’s favorite team – The early 80’s Patrick Ewing era Georgetown Hoyas
  • Mike favorite team – The 1981 North Carolina Tar Heels with Michael Jordan
  • The legacy and coaching style of Bob Knight
  • Bob Knight and Michael Jordan at the 84 Olympics
  • Mike’s Lawrence Funderburke story
  • Great college players – Michael Graham, Corey Beck, Scotty Thurman, Khalid El-Amin, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Miles Simon, Walter Berry, Wayman Tisdale, Pearl Washington, Kenny Anderson, Derrick Coleman
  • LeBron’s amazing journey and living up to his high school hype

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[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight, but I am pleased to welcome to the podcast tonight from 19nine, Aaron Meyer and Josh Barnett, guys, welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. Aaron, why don’t you go ahead and talk to us a little bit about 19nine, a little bit about your background and give our audience an idea of where you’re coming from in terms of your sports and basketball background.

Aaron Meyer: [00:00:28] Yeah. First of all, thank you for having us, appreciate coming on. I’ve enjoyed listening to your podcast so glad to be on here. My background with 19nine stems from Josh and what Josh did before 19nine, he was a social studies teacher, I’m the assistant principal at that school still. So my involvement was born out of conversations in the hallway, we would come go upstairs and just talk hoops. That was an outlet. You talk to kids all day. It is awesome to have an outlet, to just talk to them sometimes. [00:01:00] And, and we’d get lost at like his planning periods once in awhile when things were slow, weeks were slower.

And just decompress with that. Basketball background. I grew up in Indiana. So it’s in the DNA here. I like to say, at least I’m from Northwest Indiana. I played my high school ball at a. La Porte High School. My claim to fame is we were in the last single class final four. So you got to play at the old Hoosier dome in front of 30,000 people, had kind of a storybook run and then lost on a last second shot in the final

Mike Klinzing: [00:01:35] That is going to stick that one sticks with you for the rest of your life, man,

Aaron Meyer: [00:01:39] It was like a brutal, my best friend missed two free throws right before that. And and we were up by 20 at half time. It’s just, you could tell I’m still not over it.

Mike Klinzing: [00:01:51] Trust me. I lost a game in my senior year. We didn’t even make it as far as you guys did, but lost a game in similar fashion. We were up three, team went length to the [00:02:00] floor in three seconds to tie it with a shot that to this day, everyone on our team and myself included knows that it was a two pointer and a kid’s feet were on the line.

And so I’m not,  bitter at all. Just like.

All right, Josh, tell us a little bit about just what your background is. Just to follow up on what Aaron said. Yeah.

Josh Barnett: [00:02:21] Like Aaron said, we were both in education. And basically started this company with three of my other best friends in Indianapolis in 2011, probably maybe 2012 started just as a t-shirt company.

Basically, because we couldn’t find the stuff that we wanted that it wasn’t really on the market. About four years into it, we started with the retro shorts and that kind of changed everything. And we kind of pivoted, once we had the retro shorts under our belt, we kind of pivoted to just being a college basketball company, because that’s where our passion was. And we had a meeting [00:03:00] in Bloomington where we had a bunch of post-it notes stuck up on the wall, just kind of like everything that our brand was. And we looked at it and we said, this is pointing towards one thing. And it’s college basketball, which is great because that was our passion.

And we were trying to basically spread ourselves too thin trying to do football and any kind of other sports on t-shirts that we could do to basically get money, to keep our company afloat. And then once we pivoted to college basketball, everything kind of fell in place and took off and I’ve since been able to quit teaching and do this full time, which is dope.

I love that. Even though I missed it a little bit, but, but I don’t miss them enough to say that, like I’m not having a great time.

Mike Klinzing: [00:03:52] Understood. Understood.  I’ve been teaching now for, this is my 20, I don’t know what it is.

26 years, something like that. So I can definitely relate. [00:04:00] I could definitely relate to where, to where you’re at. So the podcast, just like for you, the 19 nine has become a passion. The podcast has definitely been, become a passion for me, and it’s a totally different, it’s a totally different environment than.

You know, the business world or the podcasting world, or however you want to phrase it as much different than education. I think people who are not themselves in education don’t necessarily have an idea of how isolating and difficult it can be at times. You know, you guys mentioned about just being able to have conversations with.

One another in the hallways or in your classrooms or in between when you have a break and people don’t understand how much teachers spend how much time you spend by yourself without that adult interaction. It’s one of the things that I used to. Coach. I was the assistant varsity coach at the school where I teach for the first 14 or 15 years of my career, and then got out of it as my kids started to be born and grow up a little bit and wanted to see them doing the things that they were doing.

But one of the things I always missed was just sitting in the coaches office, having the [00:05:00] kinds of conversations that I’m sure you guys were having with each other in your classrooms and in the hallway. And that’s probably what I miss more than anything. And this podcast has really kind of taken the place.

Of those conversations, which has been one of the really fun parts of what I’ve been able to do. So I have two questions based on what you guys have said to me, this, to this point, first one is what was the very first product that you guys put out? And then two, where did you come up with the name?

Aaron Meyer: [00:05:27] I know the name and I love this now. So I’m going to jump in there even though you could take that, it’s the old three point line. So 19 feet, nine inches. And we enjoy shooting threes coming from Indiana. So that’s where the name came comes from, but I don’t know the first product, so I’ll be interested to hear this too.

Josh Barnett: [00:05:45] The first product was like a bootleg I t-shirt, that was sold on Facebook. And the guy that designed it, who’s no longer with our company. Kevin’s bomb. One of my best friends. He’s a godfather [00:06:00] to my daughter, Bella. He was over. Playing with her the day before we launched.

And he had one of the shirts up over his shoulder and he was playing hide and seek with her. She was like two at the time and we lost one of the shirts. So we only had like 24 shirts that said, and like, we’re doing this all over Facebook. Because we didn’t even have a website at this time.

Basically just like relying on our friends. And so we sold all 24 and we could not find the 24th t-shirt anywhere. And then I found it like wedged between the couch where Kevin was hiding from my daughter. It was like wedged between the couch and the wall. Like we eventually found it like several hours later, it was a complete  crap show of a launch.

But that was, that was the beginning of 19nine. And we still talk about to this day and laugh about it.

Mike Klinzing: [00:06:57]  When did you guys get [00:07:00] the licensing? Because obviously at the beginning, that’s something that you didn’t have. So when did you go legal for lack of a better way of saying it?

Josh Barnett: [00:07:07] Yeah, so we, we try to there’s that gray area with that stuff big time.

And you know, sometimes you get caught, sometimes you don’t and we always knew that we want to be licensed and we want to be legit. And so we always tried to try to err, on the, on the side of caution with that, then we never use logos or anything that bootleg IU shirt I was talking about was just a rectangle with all the national championship years on there.

So it had five years on there and it looked like a banner, but it didn’t say Indiana university or having the IU logos or any of that stuff. And then the first license that we got was the turning point. Obviously for our company was Butler. That’s why we’re always super partial to Butler.

And we always try to look out for them and get them what they want because they were the first ones that gave it a shot when they didn’t have to believe in us. And they did, and we’re forever grateful for that. And so after we got [00:08:00] Butler, that licensing process is a bit of a nightmare.

I mean, we’re rolling with it now. And we’re about to make a big announcement. I don’t know when this pod is going to air, but tomorrow we’ll be making a big announcement that we got college vault licensing now. So we’re one of, I want to say eight apparel companies that have the college vault licensing which opens us up to being able to use a lot of the old logos, but it also opens us up to licensing with some of the really big universities and some of the blue bloods of college basketball that we haven’t been able to launch yet.

But man, that licensing stuff  for the last six years has just been an absolute grind and it’s a school by school basis. And we finally like crossed that threshold where we have so many licenses now that aren’t even launched that we don’t have enough time to design all this stuff right away.

Aaron Meyer: [00:08:54] To watch you guys this year, especially cause it’s been like, it went from like just a hustle [00:09:00] and trying to just put feelers out to almost like trying to figure out when to launch things because before it was like, okay, we got so-and-so and you’re almost ready to launch them soon after that.

But now you’re having to kind of figure out when, where to place things. Cause you’ve got some common and it is just to watch the change has been really fun this year.

Mike Klinzing: [00:09:19] Who do you guys have to talk to? So when you’re, when you’re trying to do that licensing, who are you talking to at the school when you’re doing it on a school by school basis?

Who’s the contact person? Is it different at every school?

Josh Barnett: [00:09:30] Yeah. Sometimes, sometimes now  all big universities are represented by third parties. So you have CLC which is IMG and Leerfield who merged together to form CLC. They’re kind of the big dogs. And then you have Formada. You have Affinity, which is a new one that has some schools and you have a few independents.

And I know I’m probably forgetting maybe one more agency in there. But a lot of times, we kind of went [00:10:00] around the third parties, so we could establish relationships with the people at the school, which is usually the licensing director. Or if they don’t have a licensing department, it’s usually like the associate SID or somebody in athletics who basically wears a lot of hats.

And once you get those people on your side, it gets pretty easy. Now finding who those people are at the schools, the decision makers at the schools and getting them to respond and buy in  that’s the hustle part of it, but we’ve met a lot of great great, great LD’S, great people, a lot of people that have helped us out.

And now we’re working hand in hand with CLC through the vault to work with these schools. And now they have become a great asset to us because they reached out to schools,on our behalf, with what we do. It has become much, much easier for us which is something.

If we did this podcast last year, like I would have harped on how tough it is to get licensing, but that thing has really, really changed in the [00:11:00] last three four months for us, which has been awesome.

Mike Klinzing: [00:11:01] Yes. Very cool. And I mean, I’m sure that puts you guys on a trajectory where if you can expand the offerings that you have beyond the schools that you already have on your website, I’m sure you’re just bringing in a whole new set of fans who remember those different teams and want the gear and all that kind of thing.

So it’s just, I’m sure expands your audience when you think about. Working with these schools. What is the design process look like for you guys? How much is the school having input in what you do? And I know in a lot of cases, you’re just, you’re creating replicas of those uniforms or practice shorts or whatever, but you’re also putting some unique and interesting designs out there that maybe aren’t exactly what was there.

And so you’re creating that kind of clothing as well. So what’s the design process look like in terms of, is the school involved in that or did they just sign off after the design has been created?

Josh Barnett: [00:11:52] Yeah, So we have like a saying within 19nine, what has been seen cannot be unseen. So before we asked permission, we [00:12:00] kind of like come up with what we want to do, and then we send it and then let them comment on it because once they see it, it’s like a different conversation than if you’re just trying to talk about it with them, for sure.

Because so much of what we bring back. It’s from years where there were no brand guidelines, schools are so tight on that now and have different Pantone shades and everything is really, really like a tight knit package with these schools. But it wasn’t like that in the seventies, eighties, and even in the nineties, early nineties, the mid nineties that’s been more of a 2000 on thing.

So a lot of these shorts and stuff that we bring back are logos that maybe they don’t use anymore. Some of their color and their Pantone shades have changed. And so you’ll get a little bit of pushback on certain stuff and some of the logos have been defunct too. So like they just have thrown them out.

Like Illinois comes to [00:13:00] mind there with the Chief Illiniwek. That’s something that they don’t want out there right now. And we just had a conversation with them and we’re not going to be able to do the 89 shorts, even though we have license with them. And we understand that, we get that. So we have to work around that a little bit and sometimes the colors don’t match and you know, sometimes we have to go with a darker shade called out on the Gonzaga 99’s, not too long ago, because they’re almost like a Royal blue.

During that time, that 99 run, but we had to skew more towards the Navy that, that Gonzaga is now because we had to adhere to two brand guidelines. So that’s really like the tough part is just kind of working around that. And, and we know that these are exact replicas. They’re our spin on them. They’re as close as they can be.

And we do the best that we can with what we’re given, but it’s worked, it’s worked pretty well so far.

Aaron Meyer: [00:13:55] I think it’s interesting, just a little behind the curtain type thing. When I come down there to see them [00:14:00] working on stuff too, because they do have like access to these things, but then they’re also doing like digging in old videos.

I forget the one we were watching last time I was down there, but in the game the players don’t even have the same matching shorts, it looks like they’ve got different, different pairs of shorts on and they’re playing in the same game. So you know, it’s just incredible, like how things have developed.

It’s such, it’s so commoditized now that it’s all, all uniform, but it just w it just wasn’t like that. You know, if we can remember the days and in high school or wherever where you’re you just hand your Jersey down to the JV the next year, and they’re doing that, the colleges too, like jus pick it out of the athletic bin.

Josh Barnett: [00:14:41] We’ve got Michigan licensing to what was at Meyer, maybe like two weeks ago or something. And so we were looking at fab five shorts cause we were obviously going to do fab five shorts. Because I get asked about those on a weekly basis and so I just wanted to drop them in and just put them [00:15:00] up there with no caption, no comment, no nothing like just like here happenings all of these.

But we were looking at old fab five pictures in the M’s on, I think it was Weber’s Shorts are like halfway up his leg and then the M’s on Jalen Rose’s shorts are down by the piping at the bottom. And then on Ray Jackson’s, there’s somewhere in the middle of those two. And we were like, what the hell?

Mike Klinzing: [00:15:27] They want you to put out one version for each guy? That’s what they want you to do.

Josh Barnett: [00:15:32] And I’m pretty sure people would buy any and all versions of those fabrics. We might have to look into that.

Mike Klinzing: [00:15:39] Yeah, no question about it. I think of back to the Genesis of this whole thing, what was the biggest obstacle or challenge that you face trying to get it started?

Josh Barnett: [00:15:50] Oh man, I’m working a full-time job at the same time. My job at our school, I would go down first and second period. I had a prep period for back-to-back preps or whatever it was. And so I would run down to HQ which is about seven minutes away for 45 minutes, 50 minutes. Answer calls, set up conference calls if needed to be with schools, pack orders, answer customer emails, social media, email then would go back to school, teach for the full day. Then there, I had 45 minutes before my kids would get off the bus between when I got off school. So I’d go back down there and do that for 45 minutes. Go home, get the kids off the bus. My wife would go to work then when I got home and then when she would get home about 7:30 or eight, a lot of times I would go back down to HQ and finish off the day.

So that was like a crazy, crazy hustle. And you don’t realize it while you’re in it. Cause you’re just doing it because you have to, and then when you’re [00:17:00] out from it underneath it, you look back and you’re like, Whoa, what the hell, like that was stressful. But yeah, I don’t know the biggest, one biggest obstacle we’ve had a lot, man, working with friends is hard.

You know, like I said, we don’t have all four of our members still together. That’s tough, that wasn’t fun to go through. Licensing was obviously tough. Getting people, building the brand is just tough. Getting people to believe in you is tough. Like all of it’s tough, but like, if you look back and you read about businesses or you listen to podcasts, whatever everybody has those crossroads or those fork in the road moments multiple times.

And it really was, there was never a doubt to me that we would eventually succeed. Like it would eventually get to what we have in our mind. But to do that and to get there, you have to bust your ass, that’s just life in general. And I was always cautious. Like, I believed so much in the idea, but [00:18:00] I’ve also seen people that believe so much in their idea.

That they don’t know when to stop. And so that was always kind of in the back of my mind too. But you could see it building, you could see it starting to come in and you knew you just had to keep pushing through until something broke and we were lucky enough and fortunate enough and worked hard enough and had enough right ideas for it to break. And so it’s been super, super rewarding  from that standpoint. I don’t even know if I answered your question though, to be honest,

Mike Klinzing: [00:18:27] You did, absolutely. When did you first. Who was the first employee you brought on? That was not part of that original group. Cause clearly when most people start a business, just like you just described, you’re doing most of it yourself.

You’re bootstrapping it. You’re trying to figure out, Hey, I’m working from eight. PM to midnight, or I’m working from 11:00 PM after my kids go to bed until two in the morning and all those kinds of things. And I’m kind of in that same stage right now, where I’ve got all these different podcasts and we’re trying to build our network and doing these NBA team pods and I’m editing a lot of them and [00:19:00] I’m looking around going, okay, well now it might be time to try to find somebody else to start doing some of this stuff.

So I could focus more on actually growing. The business side of it. So when did you come to that realization and what did that look like in terms of taking it from something that you personally had a passion for to, Hey, this has gotta be a real business if we’re actually going to succeed.

Josh Barnett: [00:19:20] Yeah. This is a really interesting question.

I could go a million different directions with that, but to answer the first part of it, our first hire was my best friend since we were. 14, his name’s Matt Brava and he does all our design work. So he takes everything that’s inside my head and puts it onto a computer screen where people can actually produce the stuff.

And so that was really awesome. And I always wanted to be responsible for putting food on families’ table and having like adults rely on us for a paycheck and stuff. I’ve always thought there was something really cool and neat about that. And I always thought that there was also added pressure, which [00:20:00] I kind of liked that too.

And so like, to be able to have five employees now, six, well really seven that are on our payroll is really cool. And I want to continue to do that. And I want to continue to add to that. I mean, I would love to bring Meyer for example, I would love to bring Aaron on full-time to do what you were talking about, the editing and the podcast and the YouTube stuff and all that stuff that we want to.

But you have to be smart in your growth too. You can’t hand out jobs just to be here in and out jobs because you have to look out for the good of the business first and you always as an entrepreneur, you always think that you can do most of the stuff yourself, whether you can do it or not. And it’s like that penny pinching mentality of, okay, we could pay somebody $45,000 a year to do this, or we could save ourselves $45,000 to spend elsewhere and we could patch it together just by [00:21:00] working a little bit harder and a little bit smarter and stuff. And, and that’s the challenge and that’s the problem solving aspect of it. That’s, what’s really, really fun about it. It can also be what’s stressful. And to not answer your question about like, how do you know when to grow?

I don’t think that you, you do it just, it’s something that kind of happens naturally. And we’re in that now we’ve kind of. Had some internal discussions about some of the expansion and some of our growth that we’re doing in, in hiring outside of our buddy system. Basically everybody that works for us is a friend right now, which is, which is freaking awesome.

Like that’s the, that’s my favorite part of all of it. And if I could, I would keep everything in family, so to speak, but there are people out there that can take us to the next level that have certain skillsets that we don’t. Then we’re just going to have to find and lure over to our side to take this thing and grow it to what we think it can be and what we want [00:22:00] it to be too.

So this is just a challenge. It’s I think it when it happens or when it has to happen, but there’s. No way of forecasting when that’s going to be, if that makes sense. I

Aaron Meyer: [00:22:09] I think you guys too are, so one of the things that that’s so driven right now is that you guys drive the culture because you’re all the owners are so deeply involved and are working on things on a day-to-day basis.

It forms the culture of the business right now. And it’ll be real. One of the things I’m interested in, hopefully being a part of, or just seeing is just how you guys grow in establishing that culture for people that aren’t a part of your friend group that are going to help the business to grow outside of the boundaries that you guys have established right now.

But business growth is such an interesting step and it can be treacherous, but I think you guys are really taking the time to think about it and, and grow in the right the right way.

Mike Klinzing: [00:22:52] Talk about your role, Aaron, I appreciate that. Talk about your role, Aaron?

[00:23:00] Aaron Meyer: [00:22:59] Yeah, so the conversations in the hallway, became the blog at first and we came up with kind of a side project.

Basically. We were calling ourselves the high volume shooters because Josh and I like to let a few three-pointers fly when we’re playing pickup basketball. They’ve even got a YouTube series called cold threes which Josh is the champ of right now, and so that developed into a podcast. I’ve loved podcasts from, I don’t know for how long I started listening when I was in grad school. And I kept telling Josh Hey, we should do this. It’s just fun. We love talking basketball, let’s put it down. And, maybe this can be part of the storytelling because one of the things that Josh does has done from the beginning is write the little blurbs that are associated with the shorts.

And I love the storytelling about basketball and the culture that that creates. And I just want to be involved in that. To be honest, it was just like, okay, I love talking about basketball. How can I help. You grow the brand in any way [00:24:00] and get to talk about basketball, which is something I love to do anyways.

And we just started doing it and just like anything, we were trying to figure it out. We still have some technical difficulties from time to time.

Mike Klinzing: [00:24:14] You guys are not alone in any way, shape or form. We’ve been doing it for. Two and a half years and put out 400 episodes. Yeah.

Believe me. We have, we still, there’s still things that to this day I look at, and, and my setup to be honest is a USB mic and a laptop. And I look at some of the people that have a much fancier setup and I’m like, man, should I be doing that? And then I go back to man there’s times where we’re running this.

And I wonder, man, is this too much? Try to get everybody connected. And luckily we had, we had pretty good luck tonight. We only had one brief snap, and we’ll try to get the get everybody’s volume. Right. But yeah, it’s a challenge for sure. And especially. No again, it’s, it’s sort of not your guys’s main, obviously it’s not your main part of your business, so it’s [00:25:00] something ancillary to what you’re trying to do.

And so it’s just, it comes down to, like you guys said earlier, you’re looking at how much how much money do you want to invest? Like I keep looking at, should I get a, I like that fancy new microphone or I should get one of the I should get an, a, I should get an X. You know, an XLR microphone that I can plug in and do the bill Simmons and try to get the, get the audio before it goes into zoom.

And so there’s all kinds of things that you try to learn along the way and you get better. It’s just like anything you get better at, whatever it is you do. It doesn’t matter if it’s podcasting or licensing or t-shirts are designed. And the more you do it, the better you get at it, for sure. A hundred percent.

Yep. All right. So next thing I wanted to ask you is, did you know anything about the sourcing of the t-shirts before you got into this? Like how did you go from, Hey, I got an idea I want to create t-shirts. Where did you go to learn about the business of how do I get the actual shirts that I’m going to print on that I’m going to use to my attack?

My designs. Cause obviously there’s a wide. [00:26:00] Variety in terms of the quality of the product, I’m sure that you could put out there. So how did you go about finding that and did you know anything about it beforehand?

Josh Barnett: [00:26:08] That’s probably Kevin who I mentioned earlier probably deserves the credit for that.

He’s the one that introduced me to soft t-shirts. And so I ran a golf scramble for all my old high school and college buddies. After we got out of high school and college called the pound it. And so we would get like 125 of our best friends together, it was always the last weekend in July, we call it the Pound It.

We’d make shirts for it. We have a party before, and then we play a golf scramble on Saturday and then party all Saturday night. And so what happened was we started making those t-shirts, Kevin and I started making those t-shirts or having those t-shirts made on soft t-shirts, tri-blend t-shirts and everybody kept asking us for more, or everybody kept telling us that their girlfriends or their wife took it or whatever the case may be.

And so it, [00:27:00] and then we did that with the Wes Atterbury foundation, which I’m also a board member for. Wes Atterbury was one of my best friends who died of melanoma when he was 28 and he left behind his wife and, and brand new baby. And, and so we did a golf scramble and a three on three tournament for the foundation that raised money to help tri-state families with that we’re dealing with melanoma.

And so we just took the pound it concept and applied it to the weekend for Wes. Golf, scramble, basketball tournament, and same thing happened. So people were getting t-shirts taken like it was crazy people that weren’t even a part of it were asking those column, doesn’t ask t-shirts we were printing a hundred, a hundred, 150 X.

Sure. They were selling at the events and they were selling out. And so it just kind of became this thing. And then, like I had mentioned earlier in the podcast, we weren’t finding the collegiate licensed stuff that we wanted. So it was, it was basically those two things. We’re our test markets for our idea without really being the test [00:28:00] markets for our idea.

They came before the idea. But then they gave us the confidence with that idea. So. There’s multiple and we’ve gone through multiple t-shirt manufacturers started with American apparel. We’ve tried Bella canvas. And then we switched. We switched a few times since that next level is one that we’ve had.

And so we finally got through a t-shirt that we like, and we’re still trying to upgrade. Like there’s always, we can always do better. And that’s the way that we look at it. We can always provide more quality. We can always. Work with our manufacturers to continue to, to make these things better because we want to put out a premium product and we want to put out the best things that we can.

And even when our customers might not know about a better type of shirt or adding some features to our shorts or our practice shorts or whatever the case may be like, if we know it and we know that it’s out there, then it’s kind of like, we see it as our duty to pursue that and try to make that work so we can give everybody the best stuff.

So [00:29:00] that’s kinda where we’re at

Mike Klinzing: [00:29:00] Yeah, it makes total sense. All right. What’s your favorite product that you have on the website right now? I know you they’re all your babies, so maybe hard to pick something out, but what’s your favorite thing that you have out there right now?

Aaron Meyer: [00:29:13] I’m going to jump in first.

I love the I love the practice shorts . I am a diehard for, for those. I just think that I miss that I had somebody on my pickup hoops game, asked me if I stole those from one of the team’s lockers back in the eighties. It just, they, they just fit perfect. And they’re like super comfortable. I play hoop play hoops in them too, but they’re like that perfect blend of stuff where you can stick a heavy cell phone in it and your pants don’t fall down. Or you can jump on the court and, and run around and get sweaty in them too.

Josh Barnett: [00:29:45]. That’s where I was going to in may, because it’s, it’s a little bit newer, but we really wanted to develop a lifestyle short that had that throwback feel to the seventies, eighties, and then the nineties, when we grew up of the practice packs that you [00:30:00] would get where you would get the mesh shorts with the mesh tank Jersey.

And that was your practice gear. But we know that like not everybody myself included can pull off the St. John’s Felipe Lopez shorts out in public. Right? Like that’s tough.

Mike Klinzing: [00:30:16] Yeah. You’re probably not wearing those to the grocery store too often.

Josh Barnett: [00:30:23] You can. But I mean, in Evansville, Indiana, it’s going to draw some attention. But I can wear any of these mesh shorts and we honestly got. And you won’t hear me say this ever on anything in regards to anything we’ve done. But I think that we have the, I know that we have the only retro, the retro shorts and I’m super proud of those because we’ve built our company off of that.

And it’s just such a unique idea that nobody else is doing. But I do truly believe that we have the best mesh shorts on the market today. Cause we took everybody that [00:31:00] was doing it. And we bought those shorts and we pick those things apart and we took the best qualities of everything that was currently out there and we blended it into one pair.

And so if I’m picking a favorite child right now, it’s the whole category of practice mesh shorts.

Mike Klinzing: [00:31:16] When did you guys add those to the menu?

Josh Barnett: [00:31:19] That. So we did a, we did a midnight madness event to launch those, which was in October. And we did it based on like the old midnight madness the first night of practice when ESPN used to go and tour around the country and everybody stayed up to midnight and they let the public into practices and all that stuff, we play on that nostalgia.

So that was like, October 24th, 25th, something like that of this year, but it was this big, old thing down at HQ. And we stayed up till midnight and as 40 year olds, we don’t do that that often anymore. So like we got to hang out with our buddies. Yeah. We got to like, hang out with our [00:32:00] buddies and drank like Jolt Cola.

Mike Klinzing: [00:32:02]

There you go. There you go. So beyond the expansion of the schools that you’re going to offer, what is what’s, what’s on the horizon that you guys can talk about product wise? Is there anything that you guys are eyeing right now? Any category that you guys are looking at that you think is going to come out, let’s say in the next six months to a year or something that you have long-term that you’re like, man, we’d really get into.

You’re going to produce the old Indiana warmup uniform.

Aaron Meyer: [00:32:30] Josh. And this is where Josh yells at me because I see behind the scenes and then they say, Hey,

Mike Klinzing: [00:32:35] I got you understood anything. You can talk about anything you could talk about. Let’s put it that way.

Josh Barnett: [00:32:42] I’m so guarded in all of this stuff. And I don’t, I can’t explain why.

But I will say that we think we figured out a way to bring back the the warmups. So college basketball, [00:33:00] some of college basketball’s best warmups. We think that we found that a way to do that in a modern, in a New York, a unique way with our own spin on it. And those will be coming out in the next month, month and a half.

Mike Klinzing: [00:33:14] Those are gonna be tearaway, right?

Josh Barnett: [00:33:19] no, no. Tearaways,

Mike Klinzing: [00:33:22] that’d be a great way to go. That’d be a great way to go into your office, walk into your classroom in the morning. You’re like, let’s go rip those things right off

Josh Barnett: [00:33:30] Yeah. Meyer could have it.

Mike Klinzing: [00:33:35] Great for an assembly, man. You want to, you want to get some applause? You’d be rocking.

Oh, that’s good stuff. That is, that is, that is good stuff. All right. So. Anything else about the company-wise and then let’s start talking to some old time, college basketball. Anything else that you guys want to share that you think is relevant [00:34:00] or important about what you guys are doing as far as the company and plans for the future and what you guys are hoping to accomplish or what you want to tell people out there who are listening that want to find out more about your brand?

Josh Barnett: [00:34:11] Yeah, just 19nine.com. You can follow us on Instagram, obviously at 19nine. We’re also on Twitter. We’re probably most active on Instagram, but we’re active on Twitter too. If you want to keep up with the brand, we have our podcasts, obviously, that, that I co-host with Meyer. We have our YouTube channel at 19nine.

Any of that stuff, if you’re interested, even if you don’t buy our stuff like that, that’s one of the main things that I want to get across is to us it’s not strictly about the money. The money is nice and the money is what allows us to continue doing what we’re doing, but it’s not why we started it.

It’s not why we’re still in it today. Like we still really, really just like bringing out dope stuff. And stuff that means something to us or some kind of nostalgic [00:35:00] play is way more fun to us and seeing people like it is what it’s all about. So even if you don’t buy from us, you can stay connected on those channels that I mentioned and we appreciate everything.

Mike Klinzing: [00:35:14] Very cool. All right. Let’s get into some vintage college basketball talk. I’m going to start out the conversation by saying that. When I was a kid, the one item that I would’ve killed for when I was 11, 12, 13. So that’s at the age when Michael Jordan was at North Carolina and my family probably when I was maybe 10, started going to vacation at Hilton head Island in South Carolina.

So every year we would drive through the state of North Carolina, too. Hilton head. And every year I would make my parents stop off the highway and go to some mall to try to try to find I want it a Michael Jordan, North Carolina, Jersey. I love Carolina even before Jordan [00:36:00] and Jordan only accentuated that love.

And I went to every year, I would make my parents stop and I never ever. Ever was able to find that, obviously now you could find them in lots of different places, but back then you could never find them. And that was the one item that I legitimately would have killed for probably when I was 12 years old.

It’s just incredible. How you think about how accessible stuff is today compared to what it was like again, 30, 40 years ago. It’s just amazing.

Josh Barnett: [00:36:31] No doubt about it. Yeah,

Aaron Meyer: [00:36:32] for sure. You guys get to go down to Raleigh- Durham, Durham, right? Josh. What’s that. Where are you guys down? You guys were down there right in row Raleigh.

Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Barnett: [00:36:41] Yeah. We went down there. Winston-Salem Raleigh Durham. We did the, the whole nine not too long ago. So we got to see some of those GM’s and stuff, but yeah, like. Growing up. So I was born in 1980, so my teenage years were in the nineties. And when those Eastbay magazines would come in the [00:37:00] mail, it was like better than like our dads getting Playboys or something, that’s what it was equivalent to.

So we would take those into school and just dissect them and take highlights that I remember. Mom would let me circle like three things for Christmas or something that I would want out of there. And I would, man, that was like some real brain crunching going on there, trying to figure out what I wanted out of those things.

Aaron Meyer: [00:37:29] Slam magazine, right? I mean, for me, slam magazine, like changed my life. Like basketball was just whatever was right in front of me, maybe Michael Jordan. And when that first came out, I mean, it’s weird to say that a magazine could do that, but the perspective that it took, it just opened up a world of basketball that I did not have access to in a small town in Indiana.

And was definitely fundamental to just my understanding of the game.

Mike Klinzing: [00:37:56] No question about that.

Josh Barnett: [00:37:59] Yeah. It got [00:38:00] us out of our bubble. That was pre-internet.

Mike Klinzing: [00:38:04] Yeah. You couldn’t find anything. I mean, if you wanted to, I don’t think anybody who’s grown up today, again, has no idea what it was like, trying to find anything in terms of products, like what you guys are putting out there, this stuff just didn’t, it just didn’t exist.

There was just no way for you to access it. And like I said, I went to the state of North Carolina and tried to find it to find that stuff and still still couldn’t find it still. Couldn’t still couldn’t find it. And yeah. And that was probably one of those things that when you look back on your childhood and I’m like, man, I I, man, I would have worn that I would have worn the heck out of that thing.

So I had to settle for the eventually had to settle for the original Michael Jordan warm up the air, Jordan Black and red warm-up suit with the the whole Oh yeah. Black and red, the full-on like sat and that was I don’t, I do not still have it. You know, what’s funny is though, is. We had the five-star guys on probably I’m trying to think how [00:39:00] long it’s been.

Aaron Meyer: [00:39:02] I listened to that. I was good that the last year I was going to ask you, did you find your five-star shirts? I did.

Mike Klinzing: [00:39:07] In fact, what I will do is I took some photos and I put those actually, I think I put them on our Twitter, but I will send them to you guys.

So  I had the original I had he orange camp shirt, and then I also have the white. All-star classic shirt as well. So I got both of those and they’re still, they’re both still they’re both still in my possession. So those are two things that those are two things that I still have.

Josh Barnett: [00:39:34] So who’d you have from five star Karl and PRC?

Mike Klinzing: [00:39:38] Yep, exactly. Yep. Yeah. Both of them. Yup. Yep. Great. And it’s one of those things that there’s so much history of the game tied up in five star and we talked to them about just the way that. The the summer basketball has changed in the way, unfortunately, five star sort of became obsolete as the rules changed and [00:40:00] everything else.

But you think about, I mean, I’m very  for that era of basketball because it’s, I’m partial to it because I grew up in that environment. But you know, you just think about those kids. At that time, some of the best players in the country, in fact, all of the best players in the country are there at whichever one of the locations you want to talk about.

But when I went, I went to Robert Morris and you’re out on the tennis courts in the 95 degree heat, you’re trudging up and down the Hills to get to the dorms. You’re eating the bad dorm food at Robert Morris. And some of the best players in the country are serving everybody else and serving as busboys.

So they could. Get there free. And it’s just, it was just an incredible environment. When you think about the difference between that and what guys do when they’re playing on the YBL circuit, or they’re flying all across the country on the shoe company’s dime. And again, there’s nothing wrong with what’s going on today in terms of that, but it’s just totally, it’s totally different.

I don’t think anybody, if you really talk to a 17 year old kid today, who’s one of the [00:41:00] top hundred high school players in the country. And you explained to them what it was like during that five star era. Yeah, they would just wouldn’t have the ability to even comprehend what that was like compared to what it’s like today.

It’s just a totally different world. I think

Aaron Meyer: [00:41:15] I really do think though that the pendulum swings back a little bit. I know, I hear you guys talking about coaching and there’s so many Instagram guys now, too, that are really honing in on fundamentals and drills. And I think that as these guys are getting like injuries from the amount of basketball that they’re playing in these, these games, I think they’re starting to realize like that you can get maybe more bang for your buck by taking the time to learn the fundamentals and work on skills as much as you do, like just putting miles on your treads if you’re playing the long game with some of these top level recruits,

Mike Klinzing: [00:41:48] I do think that’s true. Like we just had Munch Williams from the PSA Cardinals in, in New York and Munch came on and he was talking to me about, he’s like, look, we play over the course of the summer. [00:42:00] We believe in quality over quantity.

And he’s like, we might play. Over the course of the year, we might play 28 games versus these teams that sometimes play 80 to a hundred games. And like you said, it’s just when you’re playing that many games, one, you never have an opportunity to work on your game and don’t get me wrong.

I think one of the things that kids miss out on today, because pick up basketball and outdoor basketball is, is gone. And so I think about the amount of times that I just went. To the playground and played for three straight hours. And I don’t think kids today do that. So I think from a basketball IQ standpoint, I think you learn things by playing the game that you don’t learn by just training with a trainer or just being in the gym by yourself.

But conversely, I think that it’s different playing in a pickup game versus playing in an AAU game where there’s a coach where your parents are in the stands where there’s potentially. College coaches. They’re watching you. If you’re a high school [00:43:00] player where they’re keeping score, I just don’t think you can be as creative.

I don’t think you learn to do things that are outside your comfort zone in the same way you do. When you’re a 15 year old kid playing on a playground with guys who play in college and guys who are adults, who maybe even, they’re not really great basketball players, but if you’re 16 and you’re playing against a 29 year old man, You better learn how to do some things with your body and to be able to get shots off against people that are bigger and stronger than you.

That I just think kids today don’t learn in that same way. And I do agree that I think people are starting to realize that the mileage you put on people that you put on kids is going to have a negative effect as you go forward. But I still think that. The lack of pickup basketball. I still think hurts the game in a lot of ways, but it’s not coming back because of the way we parent and because of just society.

And I just don’t see a case where a kid like me, who was 13, 14 years old, and I’d ride a ride a half mile up to the playground and be playing [00:44:00] with people from all over the city of Cleveland that would come and play at the park where I played that that’s just never coming back. You’re just not getting kids to do that anymore.

Josh Barnett: [00:44:09] So my wife always gets pissed at me because I always tell her that I’ll probably die before her  beause she’s five years younger than me. I’m like, listen, take my ashes to Gulfmore park and spread them. And she was like, why? And I was like, because those were the best days of my life playing pickup basketball at the park.

And I was like, at least just take half of them. And you compare the other half with you wherever you lay. But put half of my ashes to golf more part, because like you said those were just like fun. It was, it was literally same, same case scenarios. You said half a mile from my house. I would go up there from the time I was in eighth grade through the time even through college and I would play against grown men and it helped my game.

So much, because like you said, you have to figure out something to do. You have to figure out how you’re going to contribute in a game that you [00:45:00] can’t physically dominate. And and just some of that experience in, in figuring that out. And then those guys that we would play against, they were older than us would come to our high school and support us.

And they felt like they were invested in for sure. Our growth and our maturity. And and, and that now. They would pick at you and you could end up in a fight and some awkward situations while you were there because it was competition. But at the end of the day, those guys were there and they felt like they felt a a responsibility to try to make us better.

So we were better for our community, which we were all a part of in high school. Like it was just like dope. Just like time in my life, man. I loved it and I miss it. But on the flip side of that, I played pickup basketball today, down here in Florida. And I took my two nephews. A 16 year old and 11 year old nephew and guy in a three on three pickup game.

And we destroyed these three dudes, but now I barely sit down and

[00:46:00] Aaron Meyer: [00:46:00] Go shirts and skins

Mike Klinzing: [00:46:00] So I’ll give you a good shirts and skins stories. So, so I’ve had a basketball camp now for elementary school kids. I started it. My not the summer after I graduated, but the following summer. So this would be in the summer of, I believe 1993. And then this summer, I think will be 28 years, 29 years, something like that.

But when I first started, we would have camp. And so usually we play three on three or four on four half games, depending on how many kids we had at the camp. And so you’d announced the games and then the kids would go to their basket and one of the teams would be shirts and one of the teams would be skins and.

In the first, probably 15 to 18 years of the camp, kids would literally be fighting about who got to be skins. Like they would run to the basket and we were in a gym that didn’t have air conditioning, so it was hot. And so they’d run, they’d run to they’d run to the court and they would immediately start arguing [00:47:00] about who was going to be skins.

And then sometime around that, whatever your 15 to 18, I can’t remember exactly when. I’d say, okay, this team go over here, this team over there, and suddenly those fights were gone and I’d start having to assign. I’m like, all right, your team is skins. And eventually it would get where the kids would just look at me.

They’re like, I’m not taking off my shirt. And I would look at them and go, what do you mean? Like, what are you talking about? Like, I couldn’t even, I couldn’t even wrap my head around the fact that why wouldn’t you want to go? Why would you want to go skins? Like we used to fight kids used to fight to go skins.

And now you go into any gym. And you see kids playing pickup basketball and you never, she sees shirts and skins anymore. You never see it. It’s it’s completely gone.

Josh Barnett: [00:47:42] Go to Jasper, Indiana and watch my still there tonight is weekly pickup games,

Aaron Meyer: [00:47:49] kids. You’re all mad. It’s not a pretty sight. God, there’s no

cameras allowed.  Hey, but that’s our that’s all right. That, that that’s more retro than anything that’s of [00:48:00] that’s more retro than anything.

Aaron Meyer: [00:48:02] Yeah, I got, I got one for you, which I love is like pulling on the threads of a basketball. So you talked about five star. So from that we had a guy who wrote a lot of the five-star magazine for slam Alejandro, Danwali on with us and we talked to them and he wrote the Baltimore boys.

Did the Baltimore boys doc and did the boys of Baltimore Dunbar boys. And they talked about in there a story where the guys would, they only had one set of Jersey, so that at the rec centers where they played during the summers, they only had one set of jerseys and they w they would fight to get in the first game, because otherwise you just get handed the Jersey from the game before to the next game.

So they definitely would

Mike Klinzing: [00:48:42] rather go shirts and skins Let’s put it this way. That would not fly at this point, you would have not even because of the, and not even because of the kids. Can you imagine the parent parental reaction to that? I mean, that would [00:49:00] get, that would ge real.

Yeah. The playground basketball world, the pickup basketball world is one that, I mean, I’ve lamented it numerous times on the podcast and. I think Josh, you said it best at some of your best moments. I mean, I played division one college basketball, and I can honestly say that some of my best moments that I remember as a basketball player in terms of just the feeling that basketball gave me, some of those best moments were just playing pickup basketball.

It was not. During organized games. I mean, I just love the comradery and the spirit. And like you said, I had guys that were 28, 29 when I’m 15, 16, that kind of took me under their wing. And we actually became we became friends it there’s, there’s a 10, 12 year age group. And as you said, like they’d come to high school games and they’d be invested in what I did.

And they wanted to know where I was going to go to college. And they followed you through your college career and they’d. You know, call you up on the phone and you’d see them in the summertime. And they felt like they had a hand [00:50:00] in my development. And I think kids today, it’s just not, it’s just not like that.

It’s almost like everybody. It’s kind of like the NBA in a sense that. Everybody is kind of their own brand. It’s obviously at a much smaller scale at a high school, but everybody just kind of thinks about how it’s going to impact them. And you think about even just the way parents are and the way kids are.

And the amount of like I knew who my high school teammates were going to be when I was in second grade. I mean, I knew who those kids were going to be. You know, it was kind of the same group all the way coming through. And, and now it’s like, you don’t even know year to year. In a high school team, who’s going to be back the next year.

Like this kid played as a ninth grader, but he’s not happy. So he’s going to transfer here and all that. And so you’ve got a lot of that that goes on. It’s just a different, it’s just different, different than it was different, different era. Yup. For sure. And I’m glad, I’m glad I grew up in the era that I did.

Let’s put it that way.

Aaron Meyer: [00:50:50] Yeah. I think that part of what we love though, too, is. Bringing back those stories because as a history teacher and Josh taught history too, I think that part of it is that things are cyclical [00:51:00] too. I don’t know. It won’t come back in the same incarnation that we experienced, but things do have a tendency to change and morph over time.

And what we’re talking about is things that kids still need. I mean, they love, I can tell you just when I go, we got recess at all. At our middle school. And if I go out there and start shooting with them, it takes like two seconds before they want to chop it up and challenge me and play me one on one that you can see them light up.

So they love the comradery with each other. There’ll be behind the building playing. So it still exists. It’s just, I think we’ve got to find a way to make it make them realize that it’s okay. And that there’s an importance in that as well. Not just looking up at the score the scoreboard or having an announcer at the game, but just playing and get getting out and playing basketball and chopping it up with your friends.

Mike Klinzing: [00:51:48] I agree. A hundred percent. All right. Shifting gears, give me your favorite college team of all time. Each of you.

Josh Barnett: [00:51:55] Because I’ve been trying, I wanted to get this off my chest because I’m sitting down [00:52:00] here by the pool on vacation and I’m watching the Tennessee Missouri game right now. And I guess Donnie Walsh retired or something to have with Donnie Walsh in the first thing underneath his thing was.

Drafted Reggie Miller in 1987 over Indiana. Steve Alford why did they have drafted Reggie Miller in 1987? And it got the same exact effect. So my favorite team of all time, favorite player of all time, 1987 India. Hoosier’s Steve Alford. He was my guy. He’s still my guy. He will always be my guy that will always be my team.

And and then I’ll pass it to tomorrow.

Aaron Meyer: [00:52:41] Yeah, I’m more of an like agnostic than Josh because I’d traveled around my dad’s a pastor. So we were all over the place. I loved actually that, that 97, 96, 97 Kentucky team, which is blasphemy to me now. Cause I went to, I ended up going to IU But I would say I’ve been watching a bunch of retro games [00:53:00] this year, and I think those Georgetown teams are my current favorites.

So it’s subject to change for me cause I’m always watching games and just study and games. But I love that the intensity that the defense that they played with and I love, I love watching big guys right now, the game when I’m watching NBA basketball, the game so much about fluidity and three point shooting.

But I love like just watching the opportunity to watch a couple of big guys just pound inside and, and know just the difference in the way that the game was played.

Mike Klinzing: [00:53:30] It’s played completely different today. I think that’s one of the things that, again, as an old man, get off my lawn speech that I still have.

Difficulty sometimes wrapping my head around is just how much the three and the emphasis on the three has changed the game. When you see a three on one and guys don’t even break for the basket, they just, the three point line it’s just wild. Yeah. That to me is still, it’s still incredible. And I’ve said this before, too, that, and I mean, I played a lot of basketball in my life and I don’t think.

[00:54:00] Ever in my career, maybe once or twice, did I drive into the basket and then turn around and throw the ball backwards behind me, 20 feet back outside the three point line. I mean, maybe you drove in and passed it to the corner. Maybe. But I don’t ever remember driving in and then turning and doing a one 80 and passing the ball back out to the top of the key.

It just didn’t exist. And now the best passers in the game that pass is clearly something that you have to have in your bag is to be able to get in there, then create opportunities for other people to score. So it really is. It really is amazing. So I got a question for each of you based on,

Josh Barnett: [00:54:37] Hold on, hold on, hold on, what’s your favorite team?

Mike Klinzing: [00:54:37] team. Okay. So my team is definitely 83 Carolina. I’m sorry, 81, the Jordan freshmen team. When you have Sam Perkins and you have James Worthy and you have Matt Doherty and you have Jimmy Black and that whole group you know, I think that was, like I said, I liked Carolina before.

You know, before that I rooted for [00:55:00] him that the season prior, when Isaiah beat him in in the when Reagan got shot right before the game. So I remember that game vividly. That’s probably, that’s probably the first, yeah, that’s probably the first champion chip game that I, that I have real memories of.

So for whatever reason, I like Carolina and then. Jordan just cemented it for me. Cause he was just so again, magnetizing, even at that, even at that early time in his career, it just and then the shot obviously just topped it all off. So Carolina was always, my team has always been my team and.

Probably during that again, during the 1980s, I probably followed them as closely as you know, today, I tend to follow more NBA basketball, Aaron. And like I told you, we talked beforehand just because college basketball, I think just by the nature of the way the system is set up, isn’t quite as compelling as it used to be.

But yet. You know, I think back to that time, for sure. For sure Carolina was my team and that team was, was definitely, was definitely my favorite. So here’s my [00:56:00] two questions for you guys. So when it comes to Indiana, when you think about, when you think about Bobby Knight, Josh, and you think about his legacy in the game and obviously unbelievably successful on the floor, unbelievably successful off the floor.

In a lot of ways. When you think about the number of guys that went through the program for four years and graduated and people that still played for him that Revere him. And yet you had this whole other side, like if you go back, I don’t know when the last time you read season on the brink is, but if you go back and you read that book now, like when I first read it, which I can’t remember when it came out for the first time, but the first time I read it and I’m going through and reading it, I’m like, okay.

I mean, this is a little bit harsh, but I can see this. And now you read that and you’re like, Oh my God, I can’t believe that that was ever something that somebody could add getting away with it as the wrong way to say it. Because at that time it was much more, it was much more of a normal way to coach.

[00:57:00] But you look at that now, and you just wonder about the legacy of Bob nights. So when you think about Bob Knight, what, what’s your thought process about where he was as a coach? You just kind of put them in an era of, Hey, that’s the era that he coached in and he was. Super successful within the confines of what he was, or do you look at him differently now through the lens of today?

Josh Barnett: [00:57:21] Yeah, I don’t look at him differently at all. Like w I grew up in Indiana and the Bob Knight era. So every coach that I had growing up was just trying to be Bob Knight. So to me that was just how people coach now obviously coach Knight did some things that were I didn’t have coaches that were doing some of the things that he did to a tee, but it was always hard.

Those, it was always a motion offense. It was always screen here. Like you do this right. We do this, there was yelling, there was punching the clipboards. There was challenging manhood. Like that was just what it was. Here. Now I do think, and I hate this for coach Knight because the man is a basketball [00:58:00] genius point blank period genius.

And I think that history will not remember him kindly because of the off the court stuff and in some of the things and just the way society has changed. But he won three national championships most wins when he when he hung it up and left. He was at the top. His protege is Coach k not a bad name to have on your list under your coaching tree

Aaron Meyer: [00:58:27] You can throw in five star for sure

Josh Barnett: [00:58:29] So Bob created the freaking stations. Like he was the one that went into five stars. Like we’re going to run stations at this stage. You’re going to do this this day. What basketball camp have you guys ever gone to or put on or work that where there weren’t stages. You did that?

Mike Klinzing: [00:58:44] Yeah,

Josh Barnett: [00:58:45] that’s amazing.

Did that, like this guy was just, this guy was unbelievable. In history won’t remember him nearly what he was will elevate someone like Dean Smith for, for good reason. But Bob Knight in Dean [00:59:00] Smith will just be revered forever because he was polite about it. And good same thing with wooden. But.

You know, at the end of the day, coach Knight is in that conversation as one of the greatest of all time. And he’ll, he’ll get left out of that conversation a little bit just because of society.

Mike Klinzing: [00:59:19] My opinion, I think you’re right. And I think he’s a product again, he’s a product of the era that he grew up in and that he coached in and clearly during that era, As you said there were so many coaches that emulated his style and there were so many coaches that wanted to coach the same way that he did.

And I do think that now retrospectively, when you look back at it that there’s a lot of people that say, Hey, how could this guy have. Gotten away with saying this or treating coaches treating kids this way or doing whatever. And yet, I often think, like if you have conversations with people who didn’t play, whether it’s high level high school athletics or college, I [01:00:00] have conversations with people all the time.

And I say when I try to relate some of the stories of things that went on or that we did, or that we would have to do, and sometimes people will just. Kind of nod their head at you, but they don’t really, they don’t really understand kind of what that hard nose coaching was like or what some of the physical demands that were placed on you.

Because during the era that I played and same thing with Bob Knight, when he’s coaching, like there was no like, Hey, we need to give these guys some there’s no load management that time. It was like, it was like, Hey, we’re practicing for three and a half hours. I don’t care if there’s a game tomorrow.

That’s what we know. That’s what we need to do. Or we’re going to run X number of suicides because. I’m pissed that you guys didn’t do what you were supposed to do and all those kinds of things. And it wasn’t, it was just the way it was. And as a player, you just did it because that’s what you did.

Josh Barnett: [01:00:50] Yeah. I mean, yeah. So one of the highlights of my life and obviously my 19nine career was, we got to actually go down to Lubbock and visit coach Knight [01:01:00] about, I think it was three summers ago now. And so they invited us down. We got to go to their house and just spend time with him. And Karen, who is a Saint?

His wife is a Saint. She’s a great lady. And listened to him tell stories for about six hours one day and about four hours the next day. So it was awesome, but since you’re a Jordan fan, I’ll share one, one story that he told us that I thought was hilarious. He says was the 84 gold medal game.

And there was about four minutes to go in the game. I never did fact check this by the way. Right? So this is all, this is straight from the heart straight from coach Knight’s mouth. And they’re winning big, maybe. I mean, they’re up huge. And so he didn’t name Jordan, a captain of that team.

I don’t know who the captains were, but Jordan was not one of them, but only the captains. could take time out. So the only coach Knight or the captains on the floor could call time out. Nobody else was allowed. So it was about four minutes left in the game and Jordan calls time out. [01:02:00] And so coach Knight is telling us this and he’s sitting there and he was like, Oh, so I’m just staring at him on the sideline.

I’m thinking like, what the hell is he doing? Why is he calling time out? So Jordan and the whole team comes over and he’s just asking like, Mike. The hell are you doing? Why are you calling time out? He said, coach, look at the scoreboard. He said, Michael, I know what the score is. He was like, good. I just wanted to let you know we’re four minutes ahead of schedule.

Mike Klinzing: [01:02:22]

Josh Barnett: [01:02:28] Being up in a game and, and, and equating that to being ahead of schedule. Like I just thought it was so clever and coach Knight, obviously like loved it. He cracked up telling us the story.

Mike Klinzing: [01:02:42] I remember the story from the 84 Olympics with Knight and Jordan, and I remember is just the, there’s a, I think a video interview of night talking about how.

You know, just this guy is unbelievable and that he has a chance to be the best player in the history of basketball. And you’re talking about that’s before he ever sets foot on an NBA [01:03:00] floor. And so when you talk about the brilliance of a coach and being able to recognize the special, and again, not that.

Recognizing that Michael Jordan was going to be great was, was probably Bob Knight was probably not alone in that assessment. But to say that he’s going to be the greatest player, he has an opportunity to be the greatest player ever. That’s stepping out on a pretty thin branch. When you’re talking about a kid who is just coming off their junior year of college and is going to be on their way to the NBA.

I mean, that’s pretty incredible.

Josh Barnett: [01:03:28] What was the thing that ESPN did? Like basketball love story or the story of basketball or whatever. It’s like, it was like a 30 part series or whatever, but

Mike Klinzing: [01:03:39] Based on that book. Yeah. Based on the book.

Josh Barnett: [01:03:41] Yeah. Billy Packer is in there and he’s talking about the 84 Olympics.

And he says, he talks about Knight and Bob Knight’s, like can’t have Jordan as my two guard. He can’t shoot. So he says, okay, he’s like, give it, just give it a couple of practices, Bobby. And so. It goes back after a couple of practices, like, okay, [01:04:00] listen, the dude still can’t shoot. He was like, I want that dude in the foxhole with me, if we’re going to war, he said, and then he said, he goes, so I left, I left Bloomington a few weeks later, I come back for the games or whatever.

He looked at me. He goes, yeah, That’s going to be the greatest fucking basketball player that ever played. So it took him like all of three weeks to get from he can’t shoot to greatest of all time. Yeah.

Aaron Meyer: [01:04:25] You say that he should have known, but he doesn’t go in the first pick in the draft. And I grew up playing pickup hoops with Dave Kreider who ran the rankings for high school players.

And he didn’t even have him in his top 400 players going into Carolina, going into Carolinat hey were actually mad that he ended up at five-star because that he ended up on recruiting lists.

Mike Klinzing: [01:04:46]  Yeah, it’s amazing. I mean, I think back then it was up, I’m sure far more difficult to be able to how do you get around the country to see all these guys?

And you’re not trying to, if you’re, if you are watching any video, you’re watching really [01:05:00] bad VHS tapes and grainy and try to rewind it and see that had to be a disaster, trying to be able to rank. You know, trying to be able to rank kids across the country. I mean, you’re basically just throwing, it’s a crap shoot at that point.

So I got one more Bob Knight’s story for you. It’s not really a Bob Knight’s story, but it’s a funny college basketball story. So when I was at Kent state, I’m pretty sure it was my junior year. We went to assembly hall to play against Indiana. And so went there. And the first thing I noticed when we got in there to practice that might be for night was actually, I think Indiana was practicing right before they were finishing up before we came in to do like our.

You know, night day before the game practice. And the first thing I was struck by was how big Bob Knight was compared to what he looks like on TV. I mean, he is a huge guy and he doesn’t always come across that way on TV. You don’t always get that sense of him. So that was the first thing that I noticed.

And the second thing was that all the chairs were bolted down. So they had them all. So they had like little hooks in the floor and then they were all, they were all roped together, all roped together with wire. [01:06:00] And so then the next night we’re playing in the game and this was early in the season. And if you remember it, you guys remember Lawrence Funderburke

Oh yeah. So Funderburke was right. He was from Columbus, but he originally signed to go to Indiana. And then after his I’m pretty sure it was right after it may might’ve even been in the middle of that freshman year. He left Indiana and went back to Ohio State.

Josh Barnett: [01:06:20] Knight kicked him out of practice and then Knight went in to talk to him after practice and Funderburke had already packed his shit and was gone.

That’s his story anyway,

Mike Klinzing: [01:06:28] I’m sure it’s true. But Funderburke was still on Indiana when we played him. So it was early. This was probably an early non-conference game. I think it was probably in December. And so we’re in the middle of this game. We’re playing. And at some point during the first half, there’s a timeout.

And as the timeout is called. We’re walking and I’m, my bench is kind of opposite where on the side of the court that I’m on in front of Brooks walking the other way. So we’re kind of like crossing paths. And as I’m walking back and I’m walking toward the bench, he comes up to me and he like grabs my [01:07:00] face and like squeezes kinda like he’s, I don’t know.

Like if you imagine you had a beard and he’s like squeezing he’s like squeezing the hair and I’m just like, and I turned and I’m like, yeah, I turned it. I’m like, I’m looking at him going. I’m like, The hell is he doing? I couldn’t figure it out. And then it happened again second time. And finally I’m like, dude with like, and then he just kind of stared at me.

And then after the game, one of my teammates is like, yeah, we get it. We get done get out of the shower or whatever. And my teammate goes off and he’s like, Hey man, you got a bunch of fuzz from a towel in your beard. And so I finally figured it out, like after the fact that he was pulling FAS. Off of my, off of my stubble as we were going back and crossing, it was one of the weirdest things that’s ever happened to me on a basketball on the basketball court.

I’m like, why I like to do it once. It was weird, but to do it like to do it a second time a second time. Yeah. That’s my Lawrence Funderburke Indiana university story.

Josh Barnett: [01:07:59] Funderburke is not a small [01:08:00] individual.

Mike Klinzing: [01:08:01] He’sabout six nine lefty. I mean, He was strong. Yeah. And he was probably, I mean, coming into coming out of high school, I’m pretty sure he was a top 10 he was there with Jim Jackson, you can try. Yup. Yup.

Josh Barnett: [01:08:15] He was really good at Ohio state too,

Mike Klinzing: [01:08:17] Never really never really panned out as you know, as a pro. I mean, I think I know he was with Sacramento for a little bit, but he didn’t, he didn’t stick for very, for very long. I have no idea what.

Eventually ended up happening to him. But that leads to me to another question that I wanted to ask you guys about is who is your favorite and maybe it’s Funderburk, but who’s your favorite player as a college player that had just an unbelievable college career, but that never really panned out either.

Never made it to the NBA or had a career that wasn’t nearly as good as what people thought they were going to have as an NBA player. And then I’ll give you the guy that I really liked after you guys share yours.

Aaron Meyer: [01:08:58] I don’t have one [01:09:00] off the top of my head, but I’ll tell you a story about a recent one that I was looking into.

There’s a guy in the 84 championship team Michael Graham. And he is

Mike Klinzing: [01:09:09] Georgetown. 

Aaron Meyer: [01:09:12] all over you think again, like it’s just. The all upperclassmen back in the eighties, but he’s a freshmen along with Reggie Williams. Who’s also a freshman on that team and they’re the two leading scores and the game for Georgetown.

And he’s got a shaved head, looks like a modern, modern athlete. And he just disappears after that. I was like immediately after watching the game, I got I’m like, I got to find out what. Where, where did this guy go? Why was he not back at Georgetown? And you know, it was one of those kind of sad, sad stories, but it has a happy ending.

So he leaves Georgetown ends up not at any school, never, never makes it has a cup of coffee, I think. And a CBA team with Phil Jackson actually, who ends up kicking him off the team. But he disappears for a long time. And then In 2013, I think won the lottery in DC. So he owns a barbecue joint and he’s got his own podcast now.

So that’s cool. [01:10:00] I love those, those guys who you see in, in college. And you’re like, how is this guy not going to succeed? And then somehow just, it just doesn’t work. There’s just so many things just like in all parts of life that have to go right for you to succeed at the NBA level,

Mike Klinzing: [01:10:16] That guy was ferocious.

Josh Barnett: [01:10:16]  I was doing a podcast. Earlier today I had my dad and my brother-in-law, since we’re on family vacation, joined me for podcasts and talk about OTs. In the name, Michael kid Gilchrist got pulled up. He’s recent. And I mean, that kid was a stud at Kentucky. Now Anthony Davis is a generational talent probably.

But kid Gilchrist was like almost average in a triple double on that really good Kentucky team. And in like we’ve kind of forgotten about, so we started talking about that 2012 Kentucky team. So he’s one, but I always like. Those guys that are like college basketball, like stars. They came at the right time in the right teams, your Khalid el-Amin for Uconn [01:11:00] Corey Beck for Arkansas Scotty,

Mike Klinzing: [01:11:05] Scotty Thurman.


Josh Barnett: [01:11:07] Miles Simon for Arizona. And these guys get like a cup of coffee in the league and it doesn’t pan out, but it almost to me. And this could be like as backwards, but to me it almost makes them more revered. Because the only group that hangs on to those guys is that college group and those fans of that team and that era for, for them.

And, and they’re not associated with anybody else. And it’s like miles Simon is beloved in Arizona. Corey Beck is loved in Arkansas and everybody still appreciates what they did for their team, regardless of what happened. To them in, in the pros and that, I think that’s, what’s really neat about the college game.

Mike Klinzing: [01:11:51] Yeah, that is very, that is very cool. No question about that. I think when you talk Kidd Gilchrist, I think you’re talking about a guy who had he come along 20 years earlier. [01:12:00] Probably would have had a much different NBA career, but because of his inability to shoot the ball, it just makes it very, very difficult to have him out on the floor.

When you have a guy who’s a complete liability and can’t score, and yet if you went back and you put him in you put him on the 85 Celtics. And you just have him playing defense and you have them doing all the other things that he’s capable of doing out on the floor, the shooting isn’t nearly as much of a hindrance to his career as it is today.

I mean, today, pretty much, no matter what position you play, you better be unbelievably elite at everything you do, if you can’t shoot and even then there’s a limit, there’s a law, even then there’s a limit to what your role is going to be. If you can’t, if you can’t shoot the ball

Aaron Meyer: [01:12:45] As a coach, how does his jump shot get through?

I mean, I have no idea.

Mike Klinzing: [01:12:52] I think he’s just so good. I think he’s just so good. You’re just so good physically. And you can do so many things that you just. [01:13:00] Whether it’s, whether it’s coaching, whether it’s him, whether it’s, Hey, I don’t, I don’t need to develop this because look at what I can do and come on.

I mean, he ended up being the second pick of the draft. So it’s hard to argue with them and say, Hey, you needed to do this. It’s really, he didn’t need to do that until he got to the highest level. And by that point I mean, how many, how many thousands or millions of shots as he taken at that point were to try to fix that.

And I know some guys have had their jumper fixed in the NBA. Kauai, obviously being the number one guy that changed his changes, mechanics was able to change his shot, but I think people underestimate how difficult that is to change your shot. I mean, you’ve got to commit to that and commit to it at a very slow pace.

And then slowly work your way back up to where you can shoot that new shot. Full speed. I don’t think people have any idea of how long that process takes to change your shot.

Aaron Meyer: [01:13:54] has Ben Simmons about that right now

Mike Klinzing: [01:13:56] Exactly. Yeah, no doubt about that. You can be born [01:14:00] in Indiana. That’s true. There you go.

Right. Just put it in, just put it in the water. Right. Water

Josh Barnett: [01:14:07] takes care of. We had a time and place where we were growing pretty good shooters around here. If you watch our college team right now, you wouldn’t know it,

Mike Klinzing: [01:14:19] yeah. It’s a little bit different. Well, my guy. My favorite guy who never really had had a great pro career.

That was a great college player. Was Walter Berry. Oh man.

Josh Barnett: [01:14:29] That’s a great one. Yeah. St. John’s

Mike Klinzing: [01:14:30] Yup. I love Walter Berry. I love Chris Mullin. So you had two lefties and Barry was one of those guys that he reminded me. I mean, he reminded me a lot of Wayman Tisdale. And Tisdale obviously had a good pro career and passed away a few years ago, but they were very similar players and left these that played on the block probably kind of under size, maybe as power forwards, but Walter Berry, I just remember him catching the ball on the low block and having all those [01:15:00] weird lefty angles.

Where he’d just turn and pivot and shoot. And one time he’d shoot the ball from right above his head. And the next time he’d shoot, it’d be way out way out to his left and guys could never figure him out. And it was just one of those things where I don’t think I ever saw him. Use his right hand once as a college player, at least not that I can remember that I can remember, but he was just the guy who just was just dominant and in low post, as a college player.

And then it just never, just never translated to the NBA. And as you said, there’s some guys that their game is built for college and for whatever reason, it just doesn’t, it doesn’t ends up, ended up translating to the NBA, but it doesn’t take away from what they were able to do. From what they were able to do in college.

Pearl Washington’s another guy that obviously had a pro career, but you think about the hype and how good he was at Syracuse and how fun he was to watch and his personality and just everything about him as a college player was just he was just an incredible, incredible college player and it just never [01:16:00] it just never took off to the same degree that it did when he was in college.

And he’s a guy who to you wonder. Like I look at his body and you wonder what kind of shape he was in as a pro. And if he came around today would he take advantage of some of the things that we know about. Keeping guys’ bodies in shape and nutrition and all the stuff that back in the back in the eighties, when he was playing, nobody had any idea about any of that stuff.

I’m sure they were just like me in college, eating at Ponderosa and drinking two liters of two liters of soda and everything else that I was doing. You look back on. You’re like, man, if I would’ve known some of the stuff that we know now, what, what might’ve been different for me, but it’s just interesting.

No doubt. One other guy that, yeah, it sticks out for me in that same and that same era. When you think about guys that. Could have been that could have been great pros are that you, you wonder about their, about their careers. Kenny Anderson and Kenny Anderson was just as a college player.

He seemed like just that he was completely can’t miss. I think he had a 14 year [01:17:00] career in the NBA, so it’s hard to say that he didn’t have great success, but he never, he never lived up to what people thought he was going to be when he was coming out of Georgia tech. I think people thought that he was going to be asuperstar in the NBA and never quite got to that level. We can talk about what other

Aaron Meyer: [01:17:16] teammates do. Derrick Coleman would be right in there too. Right?

Mike Klinzing: [01:17:19] Absolutely.

Aaron Meyer: [01:17:19] Multiple tools. No reason not to be, but I just think it’s, I think that’s what it’s so difficult. Life is like this, right. So much goes down to luck or injuries or just.

The team that you’re on and who’s going to develop you. I mean, you could say Chris Weber was a disappointment in some ways like, and, and he was on one of the most memorable college teams of all time and multiple time, all NBA and all star. It’s just, it’s just hard when your ceiling is so high.

Like some of these guys I’m sure that’s that plays into it too. I think.

Mike Klinzing: [01:17:49] Yeah, no question. What makes

Josh Barnett: [01:17:50] a that’s what makes it LeBron, so phenomenon that no matter where you stand on it, I’m not sure big LeBron guy by any means. Meyer can [01:18:00] tell you that, but you have to, you have to show that man respect for all that hype that he had.

And he actually lived up to it and probably. I mean, he did. He surpassed the hype.

Mike Klinzing: [01:18:13] No question.

Josh Barnett: [01:18:14] How is that even possible? When people have touted him as the chosen ones, since he was 14 years old, that’s insanely. Hard to do we’ve seen how many people have we seen good deem that in just fail or fall apart or not live up to the expectations like you were talking about Kenny Anderson and Kenny Anderson, like you said, had a 13 year career and made millions of dollars and stuff.

Like he made it. And then we still say like, well, Potentially, he didn’t live up to the hype. That’s just because probably the hype was too much. It was too tight. You know,

Mike Klinzing: [01:18:53] I tell people all the time that I think that when you think about LeBron and obviously his basketball [01:19:00] career is just incredible, but to me what’s even more incredible is for a kid who was in the spotlight again at age 14 as a high school freshmen, to be able to go through his entire career.

And to be able to deal with the media, to be able to deal with the pressure, to be able to deal with the hangers on and the people that wanted a piece of him and you look at his career and what’s the worst thing that. He’s done or that has happened to him. The decision. I mean, that’s when you, when people talk about things that, Oh, he really screwed that up and that’s the, so if that’s the worst thing that he’s done, and he’s a kid who, it’s not like he came from this storied background where he had all kinds of people.

Teaching them how to deal with the media and teaching them what he should be doing with his branding. I mean, his whole entire team is his high school buddies. And he grew up with a single mom and moving around and different people in his life. And so he didn’t come from a privileged background where he [01:20:00] had people working with them on, Hey, this is how you handle the media spotlight and the media attention.

It’s just something that I don’t want to say he’s born with it, but he just has an innate ability to handle all those things in such a way that. A normal human being doesn’t have. And I think that’s what has allowed him to be able to have that success on the floor too, is because he’s been able to handle all that stuff off the floor.

And I think that you can take that for granted if you want to. But when you think about some of these guys that maybe didn’t live up to their success you wonder what was it about them that didn’t allow them to. Live up to that success. Was it stuff off the court? Was it pressure? Was it having all that money?

All those things LeBron had to deal with. And he was just able to set those things aside and be singularly focused. And it’s just incredible that again, as you said, Josh, that he lived up to the incredible amount of hype that he had and he’s been dealing with it now you’re [01:21:00] looking at. 22 years from the time he was 14 years old.

I mean, that’s just, I mean, it’s ridiculous.

Josh Barnett: [01:21:07] And the money, I think that’s the craziest part to me is to me making it and living up to the hype is signing that second big contract and setting your life or setting your family up for generational wealth at that point. What is my motivation.

You’d have to really want to be great to train like he does for sure every year to stay in shape, to not rests on your past success, to not rest on all the money that you made in, in everybody’s lives. That you’ve changed forever. That’s what separates good and all stars from hall of fame. Great. And like for Russell Westbrook for all his faults and all the hate that he gets.

Give me that dude that plays hard for 82 games and acts like he’s pissed off and everybody in the entire world for 82.

Aaron Meyer: [01:21:57] How does he get that juiced up to [01:22:00] go and play and compete?

Josh Barnett: [01:21:59] Like I just love that about those guys, regardless of how I feel about their games.

Mike Klinzing: [01:22:07] I can respect that. Yeah. I agree with you a hundred percent.

I think that, that you look at the guys that have, I mean, every guy in the NBA has unbelievable physical tools and obviously there are some guys that have. Slightly better tools than others, but everybody to get to that level, you have to be incredibly gifted. And I think, as you said, when you get to what separates guys who are top five from the next 10, and then those 10 from the 10 after that, it’s just this degree of mental toughness of every day.

I know I got to put the work in every day. My team counts on me to be at my best. And there’s very, very few people who can bring that kind of energy and intensity. To what they do and forget about being basketball. I mean, just think about yourself and your regular life. I mean, are you really every single day, are you ready to go in a hundred percent?

Given your unbelievably your best every single day, how hard that is to [01:23:00] be able to do it. And you’re talking about not only do you have the mental side of it, but you have just the physical side and there’s always the stories of LeBron spends a million dollars a year on his body and you see some of the workouts and things that he’s doing and the innovations, and he’s balancing on a ball and throwing water bottles at his trainer and all these different things that that’s what it takes.

I mean, that’s what it takes to be. On top. And I think if there’s a message that you could get across to kids who are playing the game is look, success, success doesn’t come easy. And that’s one of the things that I always try to get across to my kids and they’re playing whatever sport it is that they’re playing.

It’s like, you can talk about wanting to be good all you want, but. It doesn’t just happen because you talk about it. It only happens because you want it bad enough to go and work at it. And I think that’s the, that’s the lesson that people should take away from LeBron. It’s like, look, he, he probably could have coasted from the time he was 14 and still been a multi time NBA.

All-star just because of. [01:24:00] The physical tools that he was given, but he took it and he maximized. And that’s what I love about Jordan too, is you can say what a great athlete he was. And he was probably in his era, probably the greatest athlete and maybe the greatest athlete ever, but. He maximized every single ounce of talent that he had.

And there’s a lot of guys with lesser talent that didn’t maximize what they had. And that’s what I, that’s what I respect about LeBron. That’s what I respect about Jordan more than anything.

Aaron Meyer: [01:24:27] I think there’s also the balance that they, that they find because with that intensity and focus, they all, they seem to have fun with the game too.

Maybe it’s Westbrook with his like clothes or whatever. I heard this. This story about Rollie Massimino from Brian Harrington. One of the guys that we interviewed, he was a bench player. He tells a story about Massimino coming in to at halftime and he goes, the guy goes to the guys you’re not having fun out there.

I’d rather be eating a big plate of clam pasta than watching you guys played basketball. And, and that like money that he brought to [01:25:00] that moment you know, Mixed in with the comradery that they had turned turns the game. It turns the game around because there is like an aspect of that focus and intensity, but there’s also like you have to have fun with it.

I think some of the guys that maybe don’t reach their peak, lose the fun they’re not having fun. It is a business. And I think that in any job, you have to find ways, not only to execute and to you know, work hard, but also to enjoy being if it’s going up to Josh’s room and cutting it up about basketball for 15 minutes, he had to find levity in the day and ways to balance out the tough moments in any job

Mike Klinzing: [01:25:36] And it’s a game and talking to you guys, and both of you told me today that you were out playing pickup basketball and you’re not playing pickup basketball to try to maximize your physical talent. You know, you’re out there playing cause it’s a game and it’s fun. And that’s really, I think the theme that has run through what we talked about tonight, and it goes back to what you guys are trying to do with your company.

You’re trying to bring back memories for people that, [01:26:00] Hey, basketball is fun. It’s fun to be a fan. It’s fun to be a player it’s fun to be involved in it. And you can share in that comradery, which makes basketball, I think so unique is that yeah, it can be serious business, especially in the NBA, but ultimately it’s a game and it’s a game that we all love and it’s a game that should be fun.

And when you lose the fun, I think there’s, there’s definitely danger in that. And I think the best coaches are able to find a balance between. We gotta work hard and we gotta be serious, but yet there’s also moments where we have to remember that this is still a game or we’re still doing it to have fun.

And whether you’re a player or a coach, if you get to the point where it’s not fun anymore, then you gotta wonder why you’re doing it. A hundred percent. All right. We are coming up close to an hour and a half. So I want to give you guys one more opportunity to share with people how they can find out more about 19 nine.

So go back and give us the social media. Give us the website again, tell us where we can find out more about what you guys are doing, where we can buy your products. And then I’ll jump back in and wrap things up.

[01:27:00] Josh Barnett: [01:27:00] Yeah, no really appreciate you having us on and give us a platform. We’d be happy to come on anytime to chop it up.

It’s been fun talking to you. We more than anything, just like to connect with people in the basketball community. If you’re somebody like us, 19nine.com is our website where you can buy stuff. That’s not really all it’s about what the us you can get some of the storytelling on our podcast which is on Aaron.

Aaron Meyer: [01:27:24] You can plug that it’s on everywhere.  but Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, Pandora, recently Google podcasts. So any anywhere where you listen to podcasts and just like Josh said, just telling the story of college basketball, that’s really become our focus and priority is to just like tie into the products, help people understand and feel a part of a community.

Josh Barnett: [01:27:50] Yup. At 19nine_threads for Twitter and at 19nine for Instagram. And yeah, we’d love to have you guys on board.

Mike Klinzing: [01:27:58] Awesome. Cool. Aaron and Josh, I [01:28:00] cannot thank you guys enough for taking the time out of your schedule to spend an hour and a half with us tonight spent a lot of fun, both learning more about what you guys do at 19nine, but also I have not had a chance.

I don’t think at all on this podcast to go back and talk vintage columns basketball. So that was a lot of fun for me. I really appreciate that. And to everyone out there, thanks for listening. And we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.

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