JOHN KRIKORIAN – CHRISTOPHER NEWPORT UNIVERSITY MEN’S BASKETBALL HEAD COACH, 2023 D3 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS – EPISODE 795

Website – https://www.cnusports.com/sports/mens-basketball

Email – john.krikorian@cnu.edu

Twitter  – @CNUBasketball

John Krikorian has been the Men’s Basketball Head Coach at Christopher Newport University since June 14, 2010. He is just the fourth head coach in the program’s 53-year history, and has led the Captains to remarkable success, including its first three Final Four appearances and first Division 3 National Championship in the 2022-2023 season.

The Captains defeated Mount Union in the 2023 title game in Fort Wayne, Indiana, to capture the school’s first title in 55 seasons of CNU men’s basketball. Krikorian’s squads also advanced to the 2015-2016 Final Four in Salem, Va., as well as the 2018-2019 Final Four in Fort Wayne. In his tenure, Krikorian has led the Captains to nine NCAA Tournaments in 12 seasons, including the last seven tournaments. CNU is the only school in the nation to win at least one game in each of the last seven NCAA tourneys, and Krikorian now has a career mark in tournament games of 23-7.

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You’ll want to have your notebook ready as you listen to this episode with John Krikorian from 2023 Division 3 National Champions Christopher Newport University in Newport News, Virginia.

What We Discuss with John Krikorian

• How their loss to Marietta in the Elite Eight in 2022 became the catalyst for the championship season
• “There was absolutely no complacency. There was no satisfaction.”
• “That final shot going in the basket is the product of 55 years of basketball tradition at Christopher Newport.”
• “The expectations are built because of what those guys have done in the past, because they’ve been to the Final Four. Getting there is not enough anymore.”
• Competitive spirit
• “We had a lot of really great returning players, but we felt we needed to bolster our roster to keep up.”
• Why he leaves the summer to his players when it comes to their improvement
• “If you have to pull people in every day and try to get them to work hard. You’re done.”
• Recruiting is not about how good a guy is at 15. It’s about how good they can become at CNU.
• Why he prefers AAU practices to AAU games when it comes to evaluating a player
• “You’re not looking at where he is now. You’re looking at where he can be in two years if he loves it.”
• “A lot of guys with the competitive spirit do a lot of things they probably shouldn’t do when they’re 16 years old. They make faces, they have bad body language, they get upset at the referee in an aau game. Huge turnoffs for a lot of coaches and used to be for me.”
• “Don’t discount somebody’s love for your institution. If somebody really wants to play for you and play there, that means something. So if you got two guys and one of them really wants to be there and one of them is on the fence, the guy that wants to be there is going to end up better.”
• “Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats within our team and within the landscape of Division 3 basketball”
• “I thought. I think the one piece that was the hardest was the leadership with this team. We had a lot of capable guys in different areas, but we didn’t have one alpha dog. We didn’t have one guy where it was just his team. So we had to kind of spread it around and we really didn’t find our way in that until really in into January.”
• “They all wanted to win, but they all wanted to do it with themselves being in a pivotal role.”
• “We could be the best team in the country and incredibly mediocre in the same 40 minute game.”
• Losing back to back games in December
• Balancing playing time on a roster loaded with really good players
• “You have to be able to string together stops and you have to be able to rebound the ball.”
• What made Farmingdale State such a difficult first round matchup
• Avenging their earlier loss to Hampden Sydney in round two of the NCAA tournament
• “Big leads. Give it away. Hang on at the end.”
• Defeating Mary Hardin Baylor and Wheaton in the sweet 16 and then the elite eight
• The different colored shoelaces
• The two crazy finishes at the Final Four against Swarthmore and Mount Union
• Why he doesn’t call timeout in those chaotic, end of game sequences like the game winner against Mount Union in the Championship game
• “That team didn’t just show up, it was the product of 55 years of basketball history.”
• “They can’t take it away from you, it’s just something that you’ll always have, your team, your program, CNU, it’s just something that you have forever.”
• The challenge of finding teams to play on the schedule
• “I’m going to like to think that they loved and enjoyed the experience so much that they want to do it again.”
• Why he had to get earrings after winning the National Championship

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THANKS, JOHN KRIKORIAN

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TRANSCRIPT FOR JOHN KRIKORIAN – CHRISTOPHER NEWPORT UNIVERSITY MEN’S BASKETBALL HEAD COACH, 2023 D3 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS – EPISODE 795

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello, and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here with my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight, and we are pleased to welcome back to the Hoop Heads Pod, the Division Three National Championship Coach for 2023. John Krikorian head, men’s basketball coach at Christopher Newport University. John, welcome back man.

[00:00:21] John Krikorian: Hey, Mike, great to be here. Thanks for having me.

[00:00:23] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, great. Absolutely.

[00:00:26] Jason Sunkle: Hey, Mike. Fantastic. Mike. Before, we begin, John, I want to thank you John, as a Baldwin Wallace alumni. You beat Mount Union in the championship game and I was very happy about that and congratulations to you. But this brings so much joy because we always hear about their football program.

I didn’t need to hear as a Baldwin Wallace alumni about their basketball program too. So thank you John.

[00:00:43] John Krikorian: I’m sure we will get into that and that game and all their great history at Mount Union. So I’m looking forward to it, but glad we could get that one for you.

[00:00:56] Mike Klinzing: Congratulations on the national championship. Obviously, thinking back to our first conversation, I know that we talked a lot about what it takes to be able to get your program to the level where you can compete year in and year out for a national championship. And to see it come to fruition, I’m sure was extremely gratifying.

And what we’re going to do tonight is kind of go through the chronicle of the entire season and just look at the different inflection points that led your team to what eventually became a national championship. So let’s start by going back to the previous season and talk a little bit about how that season sort of laid the foundation and groundwork for what eventually became this national championship year.

[00:01:42] John Krikorian: Yeah. And so that’s still a relatively short span when you talk about one year. And so I’m assuming at some point we’ll talk more about how really our entire history led us to this season and that game. But I think the journey for this particular season started with the loss at Marietta in the Elite Eight in 2022.

We had as talented a team as I’ve ever coached, probably that CNU has ever seen. And we had a magical year in 21-22. Really felt like we had all the pieces, all the chemistry just thought we had everything that you need to be national champions. But we lost to Marietta in the second game of the season.

And that ended up costing us a bid to host in the second weekend. And so we had to go to Marietta. We had a, a really nice lead heading into the half. And they were able to come back and beat us at the end the game probably should have gone over time. I mean, the thing was right down to the wire and that thing was incredibly painful.

It was a great environment. It was a high, high level basketball game. Our guys really felt like we were the better team. And that night, certainly Marietta was, and not to take anything away from Marietta, they had a great, great team. We, our guys really though there’s a lot of years and a lot of teams.

You get to an Elite eight, it ends within a week. It’s like, Hey, what a great season. Let’s celebrate it. There was no celebration after that, which was incredible to me. Right. I mean, it, how can you be the coach of a program that goes to the Elite Eight and has a chance to go to the Final Four and you don’t even celebrate it?

We had our banquet and we tried to do it as much as we could, but the guys were really, they were just upset. They really felt like they let one go and that they had an opportunity to win the whole thing. And that’s really where the journey began because there was absolutely no complacency.

There was no satisfaction. It was really okay. Like we have to get back there to that same moment again so that we can make it right next time. And that really was the mindset of every one of our returners. And then we brought in some new guys and they started to understand it as the season went on.

[00:04:23] Mike Klinzing: What did those conversations look like with your returning players after that season, after that loss? When you sit down with them individually and maybe collectively as a team, what did you guys talk about? What were the plans, so to speak, both from an individual and team standpoint that you guys talked about to make sure that if you got back to that same place that you wouldn’t have the same result?

[00:04:47] John Krikorian: Yeah. You know, so, right. You have your exit meetings, with the guys you have that final team meeting. And like I said, you could just feel just a level of, of discontent that, hey, no, we want more. We think we could have done more and, and we’re ready to do more and we’re going to do whatever it takes to get back to that moment.

And that was just really unique for me. I had never had exit meetings after an amazing season like we had had. And to a man, they were not satisfied. There wasn’t one player that said, oh, you know what, though? We had a great season and we should celebrate it. And, you know we’ll see what happens next year.

That just wasn’t the deal with these guys. And so, for the coaching staff, it’s like, okay, well we better step up our game to be ready because these guys sound like they want to do this thing. And ironically the message was with the team and in the meetings, if they was something that they regretted was we just can’t let it come down to the last second.

We can’t leave it to chance. We saw Randolph Macon run through that tournament without a game closer than 16. And the mindset was, well that’s what we need to do. We’re not going to let this thing go down to the last second, which is incredibly ironic if you watch our season at all.

[00:06:27] Mike Klinzing: Where do you think that mindset came from? I mean, is that the collective that you guys have built as a program? Do you attribute that to one or two guys? Who are the leaders that sort of passed that feeling along to everybody else. Where did that come from? Because again, as you said, I’m not sure that that’s the reaction that every individual player, that every team would always have in that situation.

So where do you think that came from?

[00:06:54] John Krikorian: Yeah, I think, I’m glad that you asked that because I wanted to go back to, at least for us that final shot going in the basket is the product of 55 years of basketball tradition at Christopher Newport? Right? Th there have been 27 NCAA tournament appearances.

That’s every other year for 55 years. Incredible. There’s been Final Fours, elite eights, Sweet Sixteens and me it was my 13th year and just thinking about those guys I had early on that that kind of laid the groundwork for how we were going to do things and building our culture and the competitive spirit within the team.

And then you go to a Final four in 2016 and you know, it’s celebrated and then you go again in 19 and it’s celebrated and then you don’t go and it’s now the expectations are built because of what those guys have done in the past, because they’ve been to the Final Four. Getting there is not enough anymore.

Right. And not getting there certainly isn’t enough. So that’s been passed on because of the work that the guys before this group ever put in, and it’s been passed on and now we’re recruiting players that understand that and they want that. And so this group of players You know, Sam’s a couple guys that didn’t play a whole lot, had never been to a Final Four because that was 2019.

So we had Tyler Trimble and Brandon Edmond, I think, who, who really didn’t play much that were on that team, but other than that, 15 guys had never been there, but they knew all about it. And to be that close in 22, they felt like it was our time. And so I really think it’s a product of this season’s a product of all the work that’s been built and, and what this group took from all those groups and probably added to it and did it at another level was the competitive spirit.

led by our All American John Hines, his brother Colin, Ty Henderson. I mean, these guys are so competitive and it just bled through the entire team. And we had that last year in 22 as well. But this year was even a little more unbridled. You know, one of those teams that just is so competitive in practice, you have to pull them away from each other.

It was that next level of competitive spirit. And I think it took us a little while to figure out how we were going to embrace that because it wasn’t always pretty. But I think once we collectively realized that was our strength then we just ran with it. And, and that probably was the difference.

[00:09:44] Mike Klinzing: So you talked a little bit about coaches having to step up their game and figure that out and sort of meet the expectations of your team and get to that point where, The players and the coaching staff are on the same, are on the same page. So how do you go about doing that? What did you guys do in the summertime as a staff when you met together?

What did you guys think about, what did you do to sort of meet those player expectations?

[00:10:14] John Krikorian: Well, I mean, listen, any coach will tell you that it’s about the players, right? And so the number one thing we did is we brought in some guys that we thought could bolster our team. We lost Jason Agner, who’s the best three point shooter in school history, and was one of the best in the country for years.

We lost Darienn Peterson, who was arguably like the real difference maker in, in the NCAA tournament last year as a power forward. Adrian Beasley was a fifth year guy, so we lost three really important pieces from that team. So to say, oh, we want to get back there, and then you lose three guys like that first and foremost it’s, we have to make sure the guys we’re bringing in can meet that standard.

And sobwe went out and got a couple transfers and we recruited John’s brother Colin, extremely hard to get to. To try to get him to CNU and we felt, we felt like we needed to do that. We had a lot of really great returning players, but we felt we needed to bolster our roster to keep up.

And all those guys made a huge impact. So that’s first and foremost is assembling your team. We also had a change in staff. Logan Miller, who had played for me on two final fours was my go-to assistant coach. He left, took a high school job at his high school where he won a state championship at Highland School this year.

Awesome, awesome guy. So happy and proud for him. And we were able to go out and bring back Jaron Dyson, who had been here before, had five years of division one experience. And we were able to get him back as basically an associate head coach. And that was huge for us. And then another guy, Jeremy Brown, who had been with us before we were able to get him back as well.

So, and then Roland Ross, who’s been a long time trusted veteran assistant for us. So like our staff was bolstered in the summer. Our roster was bolstered in the summer. And more than anything, that’s what we did. It wasn’t any fancy talk about how to work on your game or any of that stuff.

I think that has to come from the players, in my opinion, in the summertime, and it did and so they all got better because they wanted to get better.

[00:12:33] Mike Klinzing: So what did that look like from a player standpoint? What are those guys doing? Obviously, I know I’ve talked about this with lots of division three head coaches.

When you talk about the importance of that, Leadership piece from your players because of the limited amount of contact that you’re allowed to have, although now you’re going to get your eight days. So yeah, little bit be, a little bit, be a little bit different this coming off season. But, but clearly if guys are going to get better and guys are going to buy in and guys are going to do the things that it sounds like your guys wanted to do, they have to do that on their own with guidance from you guys in terms of, Hey, this is where we need to go.

These are things that we need to work on. So from a player standpoint, what did the summer look like for them? What were guys doing, and just how did you guys approach that in terms of getting them to work on the right things and, and just how you sort of coalesced as a group over the summer?

[00:13:26] John Krikorian: Yeah, I mean, it’s a good question, Mike.  I don’t have a great answer. I’ll be honest. I don’t, I don’t do anything with them. I mean, I don’t even talk to them and I don’t say that. You know, and I do talk to them, right? And they come and they work camp. I don’t talk to them about basketball a whole lot in the summertime. I really believe that the grind of the season and the work that they’re going to put in when we start practice, or in the weight room, as soon as they get back to campus, and the competitive nature of the guys that we bring in, it’s going to take care of itself.

I mean, you have the conversation at the end of the spring, Hey, what do you want? I want my role to increase, coach. I want to do this. Okay, well, in my opinion, then you’re going to have to get better at this. I’ll see you in the fall. It has to come from them. And so I don’t really get involved. Some guys have trainers, some guys stayed on campus and worked out.

Some guys went home and worked summer internships and probably didn’t play a whole lot. Other guys played in summer leagues. I don’t even know, I really don’t talk to them a lot about basketball in the summertime. I think that’s their time to recharge the batteries, to get away, to be with family, to go to the beach, lift weights, whatever they want to do.

I just have confidence in our staff our players that when we get back together in the fall, we’ll get it right. We’ll get them where they need to be. You’re giving ‘

[00:15:07] Mike Klinzing: You’re giving them an exit plan though, during that, during your interviews at the end of the season when you’re talking with guys about, Hey, this is kind of where you are now, and this is if you want to get where you want to go, here’s some ideas or thoughts about what you can do to get better.

Is that, am I accurate in that?

[00:15:22] John Krikorian: No, I mean, again, no, Mike, I like, what am I going to do? Hand him a sheet of 20 ball handling drills. Yeah, I got you. I got you. I mean, seriously, I understand. No, I get it. I’m not, I’m not trying to be, I kind sound like a jerk. I’m not trying to be a jerk. I’m being real with you.

Like yes, when I was younger, I felt like I had to in some way control what they did. Right. Hey, call me every Friday. Tell me what you did this week. Or, Hey, here’s some workout sheets. You know, like, I think you should do this stuff. Like, like, they’re going to do it if they want to do it right.

And then it doesn’t do me any good to get frustrated because a guy tells me something that he thinks he’s supposed to be telling me he’s doing, and then he shows up in the fall. I know he didn’t do it. So, like, how does that help the relationship? It’s really simple, you know? And we have this thing called YouTube.

It’s like if you want to be better at anything, get on YouTube. I mean, I can’t teach you better how to make decisions on the court than Chris Paul. Go watch Chris Paul videos go. I mean, like, what do you want me to tell you want to be a great rebounder? Go YouTube, Dennis Rodman. Like, go watch, figure it out.

I think the ownership for the players to me is more important than anything that me or my staff could tell these guys.

[00:16:47] Mike Klinzing: And that’s where you get the program to the point where you’re able to do that, right? Where you have guys that you’ve recruited, you’ve brought in the right types of players.

Those players then had influence on the guys that come in that you bring in. So you know the type of guys and the mentality that you have in the room. So that. You know, when you step away in the spring and give them that freedom that when they come back, that those guys are going to be prepared and they’re going to be ready to go and they’re going to be all the things that you just described and talked about.

When you come back from that summer and you’re sitting down with your staff, what are you guys talking about in terms of the prep for the season? What are some things that you guys thought were keys to having the kind of success that you wanted to have? What were you guys locking in on and saying, Hey, these are the things we really want to zero in on, whether it was we want to maximize our strengths, or we want to try to minimize our weaknesses.

Just what approach were you taking kind of heading into that first practice?

[00:17:51] John Krikorian: Yeah, first I’m going to jump back because you scratched the surface with the players. Okay. And we talked about it and I do think it comes down, right? So I’m recruiting and I’m bringing in guys that love to play, that love CNU, that are committed to the process and that I know because we’ve done our homework, that they understand how to take ownership over what they want.

Like his is recruiting for me, not how good a guy is when he is 15. You know, it’s how good he is going to be once after he gets here and once he’s exposed and around really high level players every day that I believe he’s going to get there because that’s the type of person that he is, because he wants it.

And when you have a room full of those kind of guys, then you don’t have to, there’s no motivation. Right. I don’t have to motivate them. Right. Not, not that, yes, we have our ways of motivating, but I mean, if you have to pull people in every day and try to get them to work hard. You’re done.

You’ve already lost. I don’t care how talented they are. So, so, so that’s why I can take the approach that I do. Because I think I’m bringing in the guys that, really want it, if that makes sense.

[00:19:17] Mike Klinzing: All right. So how do you identify those guys in the recruiting process? I mean, clearly any coach who’s sitting on a bench somewhere wants the type of guys that you just described, and some guys can’t get them because their program’s not there.

Some guys have difficulty identifying those players accurately. What’s the process that you go through to make sure that the guys have that love for the game? They have that self-motivation, they have all the attributes that you’re looking for. How do you go about doing that? And is it easier to do that today than when you first started as a head coach?

[00:19:54] John Krikorian: I don’t know if it’s easier just because the stakes are higher, right. And what we’re trying to achieve is greater, so, right. You know, it’s all relative. But I mean, first I hate aau and not that I hate people that play or run aau or it’s great for people and all that, but I don’t think it’s a great evaluative tool for me because there’s no skin in the game for those kids.

They don’t practice. They just play. It’s fine. You can see some things and in terms of athleticism and skill a little bit. But it doesn’t really show me what I’m looking for. Now, I’ll go to an AAU practice and that will give me a much better idea of the type of player that I’m looking for in an AAU practice.

I’ll go to a high school practice, which often will tell me more than I’ll see in the game. We’ll talk in depth with the coaches and try to get a sense of the type of person and player is. And I think where I’ve evolved as a coach is that some things that turn coaches off don’t necessarily turn me off.

You’re looking at a player and this is something that I always try to teach my assistant coaches when they come in. You’re not looking at where he is now. You’re looking at where he can be in two years if he loves it. So if you can determine that he loves it, then you can see the starting point.

And then what are the natural gifts, right? Is it size? Is it athleticism? Is it decision making? Is it shooting form? You watch a game, a guy goes, 0 for 10, okay. Some coaches will walk away and never recruit that guy. But if his form is perfect, I might dig a little bit deeper. Right. So, and then there’s the competitive spirit part.

A lot of guys with the competitive spirit do a lot of things they probably shouldn’t do when they’re 16 years old. They make faces, they have bad body language, they get upset at the referee in an aau game. Huge turnoffs for a lot of coaches and used to be for me, and, and I don’t want too many guys that I have to start with like that.

But if I got the right guy and he loves it and he’s a little ultra competitive and I have to teach him how to reign it in, that’s a skill like anything else. So I think all of those things kind of help me evaluate where I think a guy can be in two years. I think that’s the critical piece.

I mean, we’re not like the guy who’s a finished product now that we want is a division one player, right? so why am I going to go try to recruit division one players that are going to get division one offers? I want the guy that I think can be a division one player in two years for whatever reason.

What can we see that make us believe that he can be that in two years? Size, speed, athleticism, you know? So, I don’t know. It’s definitely much more of an art in basketball than it is a science. A lot of conversations with people and coaches, assistant coaches but as friend Duffy told me As a recruiter for him.

Don’t discount somebody’s love for your institution. If somebody really wants to play for you and play there, that means something. So if you got two guys and one of them really wants to be there and one of them is on the fence, the guy that wants to be there is going to end up better. And so I think that’s a really important piece of the puzzle too.

[00:23:39] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, that’s an interesting point because I think so often, especially today, we hear it the other direction. In other words, the player talks about, I want to find the right fit, I want to find the right place for me. And a lot of times I think we discount the fact that, hey, on the other end of it, the coach, like you said, has a choice between two players who are similar and one kid really wants to come and the other kid has five choices out there that they’re kind of waffling between.

Yeah, I mean, it makes sense that if a guy wants to be there, that he’s probably going to put. Just that little bit of extra effort in there that’s going to take him to a level that maybe the other kid will never get to. And I think it’s interesting to sort of reverse that, Hey, find the right fit, right? You have to find the right fit as a player.

But yeah, also from a coaching standpoint, if you can find players that fit your program and want to be there, man, I mean that makes, that makes all the difference, right? I mean, you can look at, you can look at any level of basketball, take it all the way up to the N B A guys who want to be in places usually goes pretty well, guys who don’t want to be in places.

Yeah. They make that pretty clear. And it usually doesn’t work out too well for, for the place and the team where they are currently. So there’s been lots and lots of examples of that that we can, that we could go through and throw, throw out there for sure. Yeah. So, all right, so you’ve got the right guys in place.

You’ve got the type of players that you want in the room. So now as you’re sitting down and you get to practice and you start going through things and you’ve had in your mind of what you think it’s going to be, gimme an idea of what the first couple days of practice are with your guys. What’s the mentality in terms of, are you seeing the same level of fierce competitiveness that they were talking about back at the end of the season?

Because sometimes that passion could fade and that hurt from, that loss can fade. Just how were you feeling about the team and, and where you guys were in that first week as you came back together?

[00:25:38] John Krikorian: Yeah, so with our coaches and we do this maybe every year, every other year, we’ll do like a little SWOT analysis and, and try to get a sense of where we are, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats within our team and within the landscape of Division 3 basketball that season.

And there were a lot of question marks because we’re coming in again without Jason Agner, who, I mean, he shot over 40% from three, and he made like three a game. I mean, so our entire offense was benefited by always having a guy that could stretch the floor, which made everybody better. It made John Hines better, it made Trey Barber better, it made everybody better.

And so we did not have him anymore. Right. We also lost Darien Peterson, who is our. One of our top two rebounders and just killed it on the interior was a huge mismatch for people. And so we were, we were concerned about our perimeter shooting. We were concerned about our rebounding a little bit.

We were concerned a little bit with leadership because Jason not only was a great shooter, but he really was the vocal leader of the team over those last two seasons. And so there was a void there as well. We had a number of capable seniors, but none of them had really stepped up into leadership roles yet.

So these are the things that we were kind of looking at and have feeling that we weren’t going to be making 10 threes again, so what could we do? So we thought about pressing a little bit more. We thought about really pushing the tempo a little bit more. You know, we thought about playing a little more of a five out style to open the basket.

And maybe our big guys like Trey Barber and Jake Latta, were going to be guys that were going to shoot some more threes, Ian Anderson, they’re capable. So, so these are some of the things that we were looking at. We knew we had a heck of a schedule to start the year. I mean, really a gauntlet over the first few weeks.

So we went out and scheduled two really, really hard games in Maryland, Eastern Shore scrimmage, and then Old Dominion Exhibition game because we really wanted to get punched in the face a little bit and really expose what our weaknesses might be. And ironically we shot the ball fairly well against Maryland Eastern Shore.

But you know, I thought those were really good, good exhibitions for us to play to help us kind of get ready and start to see what we were going to be able to do and then what some of these new guys were going to be able to do. We knew we had to keep it super simple. Because we had some new pieces that we thought were going to play.

We thought we could be an elite defensive team with all of these guys back. And that took a little longer than I anticipated, but we got there. So I mean, that’s the first part of the year. You’re always kind of toying around and trying to see where the new guys fit in. You have some ideas you think might work.

You know, and then we settled into to a good rhythm. I thought. I think the one piece that was the hardest was the leadership with this team. We had a lot of capable guys in different areas, but we didn’t have one alpha dog. We didn’t have one guy where it was just his team. So we had to kind of spread it around and we really didn’t find our way in that until really in into January.

[00:29:02] Mike Klinzing: So what does that look like when you find sort of a leadership by committee as opposed to that one alpha dog? What, what are those conversations like for you guys in the coach’s office as you’re kind of trying to search for that leader or that group of leaders? And then how’s the approach different when you have sort of the one guy that everybody looks to versus the leadership by committee?

[00:29:25] John Krikorian: I’ve always been a leadership by committee guy. I’ve never had captains, well never, I haven’t had captains for 10 years. I haven’t had a team captain. Because I believe in spreading it around and giving guys opportunities to lead in different ways. I think it’s really important but naturally like your seniors kind of step up and take on more of those roles naturally.

You know, the other thing that was funky with the covid year, we had guys that. They weren’t sure whether they were going to come back, so we didn’t know whether to call them seniors or not. It was just really odd. Finally, honestly, we got to a point, it was like January. I was like, dude, are you coming back next year or are you not coming back?

I just need to know, I don’t care what you do, but I need to know what you’re doing because this whole waffling thing, like what makes seniors great is they know it’s their last year. What makes a senior a senior is that they know this is it, and they always rise to a level of leadership. That’s unbelievable, right?

Because this is it for them. Whether they’re playing or not playing, this is it. They’re going to do whatever it takes to help the team win, whether it’s practice or games. Then we got these guys that are like fake seniors. I’ll tell you, it was really hard. I’m sure you know, our first meeting was, we had eight guys in the senior thing, but only four or five of them were like, really? It was their last year of eligibility. So finally I cut it down. I was like, are you guys, you’re not in a room anymore. Like, I can only have the guys that are really, really, no, this is the end because they’re the ones that, that we need their voices heard. It took a while just to get to all that, you know?

It was just unique and a lot of guys that came back had a lot of expectations. Like they all wanted to win, but they all wanted to do it with themselves being in a pivotal role. Right? Absolutely. They absolutely didn’t go, Hey, I really want to win and I’m going to be a fan. No, they, they worked all summer to then have a bigger role or a more pivotal role or be a starter or whatever.

And so, yeah. I mean, honestly, It took us a while to figure out this particular group. The competitiveness was there, the brotherhood was there. They loved each other. They loved to play. None of that was ever in question. But the leadership, the perimeter shooting, understanding their roles, settling in, man, it was a battle.

And we had our moments with, if you watched our team within games, just within a game, we could be the best team in the country and incredibly mediocre in the same 40 minute game. And like if you went to get popcorn you might, you might go to get popcorn and be like, this is the worst team I’ve ever seen in my life.

Come back after eating your popcorn and go, this team’s going to win a whole thing. Or vice versa. I mean, that’s just the kind of team that we were because of the wildly inconsistent leadership and roles and expectations and competitiveness and how that overtook us sometimes.

It was wild man. It was wild. Yeah. And, and we saw it, right as coaches, we saw it, we talked about it, we talked to the team about it. You know, we threatened them. This is what’s going to happen. We’re telling you what’s going to happen. I don’t want to have it happen, but this is what’s going to happen.

And they’re kids, they, yeah. Coach, whatever, man, we’re nine and 0, we’re number one in the country. So, man, and then Hamden Sydney came in on our home floor and, and really put a beat down on us. And I think it finally caught our attention.

[00:33:27] Mike Klinzing: And then you lost a second one right after that.

[00:33:30] John Krikorian: Yeah.  And another great lesson because. You know, they think, oh, okay we’ll get it right. One day of practice, great. First half, we go to Virginia Wesleyan, guys are pissed. We’re up 20 at the half. I mean, we’re playing. It was the best half of basketball we played all year. First half at Virginia Wesleyan rival game.

And then in typical fashion, they thought, oh, okay, we’re good now. And Virginia Wesleyan turns it around, takes the momentum, and beats us down with a buzzer beater at the end. So that one really hurt. Which was good. We needed it. We needed it. Playing those types of teams on our schedule, I mean, that’s how you really find out about yourself.

And I think that week really did it for us.

[00:34:29] Mike Klinzing: How’d you handle over the course of the year? You talked a little bit about guys obviously coming in and wanting their role to be an important role with the team and putting the time in and working. And obviously not everybody gets the role that they want and probably guys that from the outside look like, man, this guy’s got a really good role.

Probably, probably want a little bit more of a role. So how do you, as the head coach, handle somebody who wants to play more wants a bigger role is working as hard as they possibly can, and yet for whatever reason, just because the guy ahead of them is better than they are, that they’re not getting exactly what they want.

How do you keep that guy bought in and making sure that that doesn’t become a player to player issue, where you have guys kind of pitted against each other instead of pulling together on the same, on the pulling in the same direction.

[00:35:25] John Krikorian: You know that I’m very fortunate in that I never worried about the second part of your question.

I never worried about them being divided because of that. You know, guys that might be fighting for playing time were hanging out in the locker room. They were competing fiercely in practice and then walking off the court together, they would go lift together the guys that are fighting for the same position.

Like that was something that was natural. Hopefully it’s something that our culture has kind of encouraged. But I never worried about it breaking our brotherhood, which is one of our three core values that just these guys have, have started and embraced.

We talk about it like you can want to beat your brother’s butt at the end of the day, it’s your brother, so you love him and that’s it and if you really have a brother, you know what I’m talking about. And so that part of it was probably one of our strengths is that it never impacted the players.

But what it did impact was the relationship with the coaches. I mean, I had to then be the bad guy, right? Because I’m the one making those decisions. And for a while we played a lot of guys because, because, I mean, we were super talented, one through 17. I mean, we had guys you could come to a practice and we had people come to practice and Hey, who’s that kid?

He’s dynamite. And I’m like, well, he doesn’t even play, you know? And so this happened all the time that a high school coach or a friend or somebody would come in and just one of the other guys that didn’t play a lot would have a day and they’re like, oh man, what’s that?

Keith must be all league player. And actually he doesn’t even play. And that’s a great thing to have because our practices were so competitive, but it’s really hard telling a guy, Hey, you’re just behind this other guy, but like, it’s really, really, really, really close, you know? So you just have to stay ready.

So, and that was the other part it was, it was part of, I think my fault although I don’t know that I would’ve done it differently because I think it probably helped us. But like the first 10, 12, 15 games of the season, we were rotating guys in and out, like a Chinese fire drill. I mean, just.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like they’re running in and out of there because I’m looking for answers or I’m feeling like I have to give a guy an opportunity because he earned it. And the gap is so close that we played a lot of players. We gave him a lot of opportunities. We put him in some big moments and some big spots.

But that also led them to believe they were in the mix now even though it might have just been for that game, and it takes, it takes them a while to get used to that concept. Hey, you might play 12 minutes in this game and you might not even get in the next game because it has to do with size and matchups and can you defend your position?

And you know, what do we need against that particular team? We’re very scout heavy, so it, it, yeah, that all took us a while too. But again, I think it’s all part of what made us who we are and allowed us to ultimately. Be ready come tournament time,

[00:39:11] Mike Klinzing: You play the defending Champs Randolph Macon, which obviously is a game that I’m sure that you guys were looking forward to and was a game that was a measuring stick, and that’s a game that you lose.

And then from that point on, you don’t lose again. So when you think back to that game, what do you remember about the game itself and then kind of where you guys were physically and mentally coming out of that game?

[00:39:34] John Krikorian: Yeah, I mean, it was a great basketball game. It was a high level game. It was at Randolph Macon.

Our guys really wanted to win, but they probably wanted to win a little more because in 21-22 they lost one game all season and it was against us at our place. So this thing has become a big time rival. And we went in there and we were starting to figure some things out with our group and we played really well.

And in those types of games, it’s usually going to be somebody other than the big ones that that step up. And for them, they had the kid, Daniel Banger, who was really like a third, fourth, fifth option. And he had a career night. And that was the difference in the game. And it was all that you could think about on the road.

Great environment, rivalry game, defensive battle. We had the lead. We were playing really well. And we made a couple big defensive breakdowns at the end and they took advantage. And I actually think the game didn’t really hurt us. I thought it was like, okay, we didn’t execute at the end.

We could have played better. And we were right there. And I think they were number one at the time, maybe two. Like, okay, we’re good. We’re right there. We’re going to be all right. And from there I thought it really, it really took off.

[00:41:09] Mike Klinzing: So when it takes off, what’s that feel like in practice, in games, just in the energy within the team?

How, when you guys start to get on this role, what’s that, what’s that feel like as, as a coach and with your team day in, day out on the practice floor?

[00:41:26] John Krikorian: I just think at that point, the buy-in of defending and rebounding the way that we’re accustomed to and the way we’re capable of, they just took a little more ownership over it.

We had been good to that point but I think they realized, okay, wow, if we want to win this thing and we have an off night shooting, We’re going to have to, we’re going to have to really make sure we defend and rebound at a high level. And because it can come down to the last possession. And, and they just, they embraced it.

And, and to me that, that was the difference because we were very talented and we could score a lot of points. But you’re going to a six game tournament, you’re going to have a night where you don’t shoot the ball particularly well. Or a team matches up well like Farmingdale State did. Or you know, someone gets in foul trouble or it just doesn’t go your way.

You have to be able to string together stops and you have to be able to rebound the ball. And I told him from, from day one we had talked about I forget the exact statistic, but we had been to the NCAA tournament nine times, I think. In my tenure at CNU seven of the losses, we were out rebounded in despite having an incredibly high rebounding margin number for the year.

And so I said like, you can rebound all you want in a regular season. When it comes to the playoffs, when it comes to the NCAA tournament, we have been eliminated nine times. Seven times was because we got out rebounded. So you guys decide what it’s going to be. And so that’s just something that we kept harping on and you know, I’m incredibly proud of our group because to go against that Mount Union team and out rebound them to me that was the game.

[00:43:21] Mike Klinzing: All right. Let’s go back to the eve of the tournament and you get the draw. What’s your first thought as. We were looking at your draw and you’re trying to sort of look at the path. Are you looking at the path all the way to the national title game, or are you just dialed in on what’s our first round matchup and we better take care of business here?

How do you look at that as a coach?

[00:43:42] John Krikorian: Well, as soon as it came out, I was like, oh, crap. Because I mean, number one, my players had no familiarity with Farmingdale State, so they had no frame of reference to know how good they were. So it’s just some team from some place they’ve never heard of, how good can they be?

Right. That was my team’s thought. I was in the league with Farmingdale. They were the best team in New York for a long time. I mean big time players, coaches, tradition, history, all that stuff. And so I was scared to death for that game. I. And then as I dug in and really saw the type of team that they had and knew the matchup was not particularly favorable for us.

You know, then I really got, I think I even as a coaching staff, I think I said like, this first game is going to be, this could be the hardest game of the tournament. I mean, it could be one of those deals. If we get through this first game, we’re in really good shape, but I don’t know if we can get through the first game.

And, and yes, I probably for the first time, or one of the few times in my career I did, we took a peak at the bracket and we got sent to Hampden Sydney. So we anticipated and wanted to play Hampden Sydney. And I also knew that that was part of the problem with Farmingdale State was our guys wanted to beat Hampden Sidney so bad, right?

[00:45:22] Mike Klinzing: Yep.

[00:45:23] John Krikorian: That’s all they were thinking about, you know? So they were excited about, we knew we were going on the road because of the male female thing, men’s and women’s. So we knew we had to go on the road. And there had been a lot of talk about, at least with the coach and coaches in the administration we really felt we had a great team.

We were a number one seed, and once again, we were going to have to go on the road because The NCAA Championships committee, for some reason, can’t wrap their head around men and women playing on the same weekend in the same venue, which is completely ridiculous, by the way.

[00:46:02] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, seems like it.

[00:46:03] John Krikorian: We could absolutely host both men and women and give a championship experience.

They would remember as could many other institutions. So it’s completely ridiculous. So now we’re going to have to go on the road and because of geography likely go on the road the second weekend because it’s 500 miles and all this other stuff. So I did take a peak to see how they put the bracket together for that reason.

And it was like, wow. They really, for the first time ever, they really looked closely at this thing and lined it up so that if we were to win the first weekend, we would likely host the next weekend. Which is something we’ve never done because of geography. Our other two final fours we got sent on the road in the Elite eight because of geography.

So it was like, holy cow, not only do we get to play a rematch game with Hampden Sydney possibly, and we only have to travel two hour, two and a half hours. If we get through that weekend, we get to come home. Like that’s incredible. We’ve never had that opportunity. We’ve always lived on a road. So, so we did look at that and again, I was like, man, if we get through this first weekend, we got a chance to come home and we’re really good at home.

So and then it didn’t look much, much beyond that to like Final four stuff or whatever, but just to look at those first two weekends to know we had a chance to play Sydney in a rematch and then to know that if we were to get through that weekend, we had a chance to come home for the first time in, in the second round.

Like, all those things were right in front of us, but, but what was really right in front of us was Farmingdale State. And that was very scary.

[00:47:57] Mike Klinzing: So that’s the game you win. 61-60. So obviously your fears were well-founded. What about them made them such a tough matchup for you guys?

[00:48:06] John Krikorian: They were old experienced.

They’re New York City guards, New York guys. They defend at a very high level. So, and, and they weren’t going to be scared like I knew they’re not going to, oh, Christopher Newport, number two in the country or whatever. We were you know, NCAA tournaments, all this stuff. Like maybe if they had come to C N U and saw the banners, maybe they would’ve been intimidated maybe a little bit, but not really.

I mean, these are New York City guys. Like, they don’t care about us. So they’re, they’re well coached. They defend, they’re athletic, they’re talented, they’re older, they’re New York City guys. And I think most importantly, they were not intimidated by us whatsoever. They were thinking the same thing. Who the heck’s Christopher Newport?

You know, I never heard of that place. And so they had a swagger to them. Like they went in there to win the game, and you could see it from the outset and, and all the credit to them and their coaches and, and try as we might, our guys were not, they just they prepared, but they weren’t ready for that.

[00:49:20] Mike Klinzing: You guys get through that game, and then you get your rematch with him and Sydney. What do you remember about that game? I’m assuming you guys, after you survived the scare in the first round, that you guys are locked in for that second round game.

[00:49:35] John Krikorian: Yeah. I mean it was the easiest scout, you know? And that’s the best part of it is you’re playing a back-to-back.

Well, now the other thing is Hampden Sydney and Emory go to an all out war that night. And, and this was kind of special. So one of the one, one of the only benefits of playing on the road in the first round is if you’re in the neutral game, you play first. So you get to play, you get an extra warmup, you get to play and then you’re done.

So if you advance, now you get to sit there with your feet up and eat your pizza and watch your the next game while these guys are killing each other right. Till 10 o’clock at night. Right. Or 11 or whatever it is. So we’re kickbacked. Eat the pizza. We always leave at halftime and because I want them to get rest, we’ll watch, film, whatever.

And the guys are like, coach, we want to stay. Great atmosphere, great game. So we stayed till the damn ending of the game. I mean, like the whole, we stayed like, guys, we have to get out of here. It’s like 30 seconds to go and we’re racing through the back door. They opened it up for us so we could get out of there.

Emery had them beat, they had a shot in the corner to tie or win the game from three. That would’ve been a really unique and difficult matchup for us because they played so much zone and we hadn’t seen a lot of zone. But Sydney wins, they survived. And our guys were, they were super excited.

They were jacked, they were we knew their players, we knew their plays, they knew ours. It was just going to be a rock fight. But we came out, we played, we defended. So in both of those games, I think our defensive numbers were like 30% field goal percent is defense for both games. We just guarded them like crazy.

Yeah. We put on a clinic defensively and made a couple timely shots and that was that. It was great. Great environment, great game. Then you come

[00:51:34] Mike Klinzing: Then you come home and as you said, special to be able to do that. What was the atmosphere like for those next two games?

[00:51:43] John Krikorian: Yeah, it was even greater than I would’ve thought.

Like, we have this atmosphere at CNU. We have this unbelievable marching band and cheerleaders and dance team and stuff, but it was spring break, so we didn’t really have all those extra amenities. But the community really came out and against Mary Hardin, Baylor, it was electric in there. It was a great atmosphere.

And again, I think we really set the tone defensively for. 30, 35 minutes of the game. And they really had a really hard time scoring against us which gave us confidence. And then we were able to pull away a little bit. You know, their one kid went a little crazy at the end to keep them in it.

But we really, really played well against Mary Hardin, Baylor. And then the next one, Wheaton and St. Joe’s was a, was a terrific game and we didn’t know who we’d play and, but similarly, we kind of jumped up on Wheaton. We defended them extremely well. I think we were up 20 at the half, or pretty big number at the half.

We had made shots, we guarded. And their point guard went crazy and the second half brought them all the way back, but we survived. And that, that’s kind of who we were. Right. Big leads. Give it away. Hang on at the end. That’s, that was kind of our mo that’s You want to write a book? That’s a,

[00:52:54] Mike Klinzing: That’s a fun coaching rollercoaster to be out all the time, man.  That’s a blast to coach a team that does that, isn’t it?

[00:53:02] John Krikorian: I mean, people ask why I was so calm. I was like, I’ve seen this movie a hundred times. It’s coming,

[00:53:07] Mike Klinzing: It’s one of those ones where you’re, you’re watching that clock, man. That clock clamp can’t move fast enough.

[00:53:14] Jason Sunkle: I’m sure. Ask the Boston Celtics, ask the Boston Celtics how they feel about that kind of basketball.

[00:53:18] Mike Klinzing: All right. Tell me about the final four.

[00:53:25] John Krikorian: I mean, it’s the final four, right? And for the majority of my guys, their first one, Getting to Fort Wayne from Newport News is not easy.

But you know, it, it was cool. We flew into Chicago, we got in late. We were the latest team to get in, and then everything was delayed. I had guys were in class, so we didn’t get in until like two, two to three o’clock in the morning on the Wednesday night. When did we play Thursday? So on the Tuesday night.

And so we were supposed to practice like nine in the morning. Thankfully, they, they moved the practices back so we could practice at like one o’clock or something. So, so we got in Chicago, we got some deep dish pizza. We were going to watch Rocky three on the bus. We’re all excited. And then realize we bought the Blu-ray and not the DVD, so everything’s delayed in the airport, whatever.

So we get into four, like three o’clock in the morning. We get up, we go over there, we have our practice. And you know, everything’s great. We had done this thing from the jump with our shoelaces. It was just kind of something quirky. I wanted to keep the pressure off. I wanted to like just make the tournament be different, like it’s not just another game.

So we did this, this thing where every game we wore a different color shoelaces the whole team. So I spent $600 on shoelaces, which is ridiculous.

[00:54:57] Mike Klinzing: Nice.

[00:55:00] John Krikorian: So the first round I think we wore white and then the game ends and the next day we get together for a walkthrough and we sat, literally sat there for 20 minutes, unleashed shoes and put in black or whatever the next color was.

And. Thank God we had enough time because I had like three guys that I don’t think they knew how to tie shoes because it took them like 45 minutes to get the shoelaces back in. So we go to the next weekend and I think we had, what did we have? Blue and orange maybe or something. So then every game we did that.

So that was our ritual. So then the big thing was to get to the final four, you get silver in the, the semis and if you get to the championship you wear gold. So we changed over the shoes when we got on on Thursday to the silver, which was cool. It was kind of a big moment for us to be able to wear the silver and you know, we also had our guys, so you’re watching film to scout your opponent.

For us it was Swarthmore who. Our guys do know Swarthmore, and they have a ton of respect for Swarthmore. You know, we had played Hopkins earlier and they knew that in 2019, in the very same game in the semis, we lost a Swarthmore. We have a player, Svante Chapel, who works at CNU right now. We see him every day.

He was on that team and he had talked to a lot of the guys about that game. And we actually, in our preparation for the game, we watched that game. We watched the 2019 Final Four game that we lost to Swarthmore. Because they, I mean, they’re very similar, different players, but very similar style.

And so we, we were able to draw a lot from our past and our experience in watching that game and having our guys feel that history and what it would mean to get by them. And we played extremely well. They made a run at the end, but that was more, again, us being us, where we missed free throws and it just bits of boneheaded things in the last few minutes of the game.

But for the majority of the game, we were really, really good. And that was a tremendous win and opportunity for us. And again, really cool because it was the first game. So then we got to sit there and watch whitewater and Union Play. And again, the guys at Halftime didn’t want to go home. They wanted to watch the whole game again.

Just tells you about the competitive nature of our team.

[00:57:24] Mike Klinzing: For sure. Well, based on the description of the season, right, it sounds like the championship game played out exactly the way you would’ve drawn it up in your head after coaching your team the entire season. There was no way that they were going to take their five point lead with a minute and run the clock out and hit some free throws and go in the locker room and celebrate It had to be a little bit more.

Thrilling and exciting. So how do you get your team ready in that short amount of time to prepare for such a high level game? And then just walk me through a little bit about what happened in that game and, and how you guys were feeling and what, what you were going through, the emotions that you guys felt as that game was going on.

[00:58:08] John Krikorian: Now. Now just to, just to back up. So did you watch the end of the Swarthmore game? I did not. So in the last, I’m pulling up the thing here cause I don’t want to get it wrong. In the last 30 seconds, we missed five out of six free throws and we, I mean we were up like nine points and they have a shot at the buzzer with their best three point shooter from about 22 feet straight on that hits the back of the rim and out.

And we were up three. That’s how close you were going to overtime in that game.

[00:58:43] Mike Klinzing: So you already, you already survived once and well, you’ve already survived multiple times. Let’s put it down. We survived so many times. Right?

[00:58:49] John Krikorian: And that, and so, so when you say, yeah, I knew exactly what was coming and so yeah, we, we had gotten down, I mean, in the first half of the Mount Union game, I mean, it was scary.

Like we could not score, I mean, we could not put the ball in a basket. They, they came out incredibly physical and aggressive. They guarded us. They were, they were physical with us. And, and we just, we on off, we looked completely out of sorts on offense. We weren’t sharing the ball. Guys were used to making plays one-on-one.

They couldn’t make them. And we couldn’t score. I mean, and, and fortunately we defended well enough to hang around, hang around, hang around. And then we finally, Got a little breakthrough at the end of the half to cut the thing to three, which is a miracle if you watch that half of basketball for us to be down three is a miracle.

Because we couldn’t score. And then in the second half we really played with some confidence, found our rhythm, and you know, and then really started playing away. Like we were pulling away. It’s like the same thing as many of the other games as we started to pull away. I mean, I don’t know what the number was, but we were up 6, 8, 10 in the second half and really like a possession or two away for making it a double digit lead game.

And then of course we didn’t and then, and then we turned it over and missed some free throws. And next thing you know, we’re down one. And. It’s just like guys on the bench are freaking out a little bit and it was like, Hey, it’s who we are, us. You know what I mean? You can want it any other way.

This is how it’s going to be one way or the other. This is how it’s going to be. So you play with fire, sometimes you get burnt, sometimes you don’t. And, and we did and, and we were fortunate enough to make enough plays there in that game to win. And great atmosphere, great team, great game. I mean, Mount Union, absolutely worthy of being in the championship game.

And would’ve been a worthy champion. Just terrific team coached, experienced school support fans. I mean, they had it all. And you know, in some ways I felt like we were David beating Goliath. Like it was a big. Big win to go in there to the Midwest where they had the place rocking and come out of there with a win.

[01:01:19] Mike Klinzing: Talk about the decision. This is obviously always something that coaches debate of. Do you call time out? Do you not call Time Out before that final 4.3 seconds? Just what’s, obviously that’s something that you’ve thought about beforehand. That’s not a decision that you’re probably making in the moment.

It’s something that you’ve, you’ve considered, you’ve talked about it, you’ve thought about the possibilities, just why not the time out in that situation?

[01:01:50] John Krikorian: So, thankfully it worked out, Mike, right? If we had turned the ball over there and lost the game, it would’ve been because I held to my guns and did what I said we’re going to do for the last 10 years. Absolutely. And, but man, it could have cost us. But that’s what we do. And our guys know it. We talk about it. And I stubbornly held to it because we lost at Salisbury in 2015 in the championship game. We were at their place.

We were up six with a minute to go. We have a really bad final offensive possession up one. There’s like three, four seconds to go. They don’t call a timeout, they push the ball down the floor. We foul on 0.7 seconds, makes both. We lose a championship game. Didn’t make the NCAA tournament. I would argue that play is the reason why we haven’t missed one since, and probably the springboard towards the national championship this year. Because at that time I decided I’m never calling time out at the end. It is so hard to get back and transition at the end of a emotional game. And you have players that are in and out of the game to substitution.

Maybe they were in just for offense. You have all sorts of chaos going on, like you’re going to be able to get the ball to the basket. Very, very hard to stop somebody from getting the ball to the basket in that situation. And what are you going to draw up that’s going to be any better than that? So our philosophy has been ever since, get it and go.

And now usually what made this one a little funky is usually that conversation’s being had with my point guard, Ty Henderson, and we do it every day. I mean, we do end of game stuff nearly every day and it’s like, man, go. You know, I’m not calling Time out. Go, go, go. We, we time him and they know it and he can, my point guard can get from end to end in four seconds and score and he actually see, and what people don’t give enough credit to is, that’s what Ty did the play before the, the play of the game was the play before, right?

Yep. Where we didn’t, again, call time out and we had just lost the lead for the first time in like 15 minutes. And everyone in the place then is thinking, oh my god. Call time out. And Ty takes the ball, beats his man in half court and gets an an one at the other end to give us the lead, makes the free throw.

We’re up to, that’s the only reason we’re in that situation is because that kid did exactly what we tell him. Go to the rack. And so he finishes. We’re up to, they come down, they tie, it ties out of the game. So I had Ty out of the game because defensively we wanted bigger defenders on Gurly and some of their shooters.

So I had Ty, my point guard was out of the game. John Hines normally takes the ball out of bounds, but because Ty was out of the game, John thought he needed to get the ball. So Matt Brody took the ball out of bounds. So now we’re all out of sorts. Right, right, right. Complete chaos. And I’m just watching and I’m kind of looking and, but they were in complete chaos too.

So they ran a guy, maybe two to John Hines, because you know, he’s the All-American, so we have to stop John Hines from getting the ball. So that smart choice. But now the floor is completely wide open. So Matt Brody takes the ball and I’m watching and he throws it up to Trey who. We see Trey every day. I mean, Trey can shoot, he can handle, he is a very skilled big guy and you know, if he fumbled it or put the ball over his head or something, I would’ve called it timeout, but he took the ball and just started driving to the basket and everybody’s backing up and it’s a tie game.

I’m like, well, I guess we’ll see how this goes. I mean, the worst that can happen is he dribbles it off his foot out of bounds or something. Right? I mean, they, nobody was even close enough to take it from them because they were all backing up. They didn’t want to foul him. Right. Exactly.

[01:06:23] Mike Klinzing: That, that not wanting to foul, I’m sure was a huge piece of the success of that.

Right. Especially after you gave, they gave up the three point play. Yeah. You don’t want to foul.

[01:06:33] John Krikorian: It’s a tie game and now here comes a six eight guy driving it, like, and if you saw, you watch the film, like he’s going with a purpose. There’s no hesitation there, right?

[01:06:44] Mike Klinzing: He’s head down, going right to the rim

[01:06:45] John Krikorian: I’m not going to draw anything up better than that. The guy who’s the mvp, the tournament, who’s got 21 points or whatever it was, and he is driving it to the bat, okay, this is good. I couldn’t, there’s not a play I could run that could get him the ball in that position. And so, I mean, to the kid’s credit, just, he just had that, that aggressive mindset.

And I’d like to think it’s because we, we do it every day. I, again, I’m not going to lie to you and tell you we throw it to him every day, but they know, go to the rack and, and he went and it worked out.

[01:07:22] Mike Klinzing: What did it mean for the kids?

[01:07:24] John Krikorian: Yeah, they, I mean, just again, having lost the way they did the year before and being in so many close games and the ups and downs of the season you could see the joy on their faces.

I’ve never seen Trey Barber smile so much, just, you know It, it was, yeah. You know, you used to watch a celebration afterwards and they were just through the moon. It was an awesome experience and the committee and the folks that ran the event they just made it really special for the guys.

[01:07:59] Mike Klinzing: What about for you on a personal level? Obviously you’re happy for your guys, and that’s probably the overwhelming emotion, but just for you and the culmination of 13 years and putting in the work and going back to the beginning of our conversation of just how you got there over the course of building the program up to get to this moment, how much satisfaction, just what were, what were your emotions like in the aftermath of that game?

[01:08:24] John Krikorian: Yeah, I mean for me, if, and somebody actually sent a little a screenshot of me. I think I had my head in my hands. I mean, just, I’m not a big jump around for Joy Guy. Anyway, just, but it was just an incredible sense of, of relief for a moment. But then the referees came over and said, we have to review the play.

So then it went from, did that really happen? Like to, did it count to, did it count to then, like, Sarah’s over there with the trophy behind the bench, but the referees are over there and I’m, I’m asking her like, are is, did it go in? Are we good? Like, what’s going on? My guy, I’m trying to get my team back to the bench.

Because I’m thinking if we have to go to overtime, I mean, these are human beings. I thought it went in, but like if we have to go to overtime, I have to get these guys, they have to get back here. You know, like, we have to get ready. And then finally when the official went out, I knew what the call was going to be because his body language, you know you could see that he was going to call it good.

And then it was just complete relief. Like I, you know that’s more of what it was than anything else. And in, in the time that’s passed you know, we’re, we’re little ways out here now. You know, it’s just been really, really cool to see and feel and hear from the guys that were, I’ve coached before me, the guys that were here before and what it meant to them to the program.

Because we. That team didn’t just show up. I mean, it was the product of 55 years of basketball history. And, and to have that because you mean there’s going to be, there’s a lot of programs that are never ever going to win one, you know? And so to be among that very, very small group of basketball programs and very, very small group of basketball coaches that can say they’ve won a national championship is it’s, as somebody said to me the other day, they can’t take it away from you.

You know, it’s just something that you, you’ll always have your team, your program, C n U, it’s just something that you have forever. And yeah, I think that’s a pretty enormous thought, but it’s real.

[01:10:54] Mike Klinzing: No, it’s really well said. I think the thing that struck me there as you’re talking is the fact that you brought along a lot more people than just the guys in your locker room and your coaching staff.

You brought along the university, you brought along the community, you brought along all the players who played there throughout that past 55 year history. That’s powerful to be able to say that, hey, not only was it just us, but we did it for this other group as well, guys who are connected to our program and people in the community and everything else.

I think sometimes that part of it maybe gets lost a little bit, but the fact that you think about just how impactful that could be for not only your guys in the locker room, but just everybody who’s associated with the program. I think that’s really powerful. Let’s wrap up by looking ahead. And thinking about the challenges that you have moving forward, so as you look towards next season, what do you see as being the biggest challenge on the horizon?

[01:12:02] John Krikorian:  Our schedule. Who do you think wants to play us? I mean, the only people that want to play us are the people think they can beat us, you know? So we, we have an incredibly challenging schedule next year. You know, the way our conference is, it’s really, really wonky. I mean, I have to get 20 non-conference games, I don’t have a built in 16 or 18 game schedule.

I have five. So I’ve had to go out and get all these games from teams that are really, really good. So I think our schedule’s going to be daunting. We do have a lot of returners. And that’s really exciting how they’re going to respond after this year. I have no idea, but I’m not going to do anything different.

Kind of like, Hey, you know what it took how close it was. If you want to do it again, you know what you need to do and we’re going to bring in a a pretty healthy freshman class which I’m excited about, and kind of see where it goes when we get back together.

See, we’ll find out what our strengths and weaknesses are as a group next year when we get back together. But I would like to think that the group’s going to have some confidence about them. I’m going to like to think that they loved and enjoyed the experience so much that they want to do it again. I’m a, I’m a like to think that they learned a whole lot about what it takes and they’re going to be able to impart that on the, the new guys.

So I think there’s, there’s a lot of opportunity and a lot of positives and we’re, we’re going to have to, we’ll have to grow up quick though next year, I’ll tell you that because we’ll, we’ll have a target on our back and we will have some really, really good teams going for us.

[01:13:57] Mike Klinzing: You’re going to learn together what it’s like to defend a national championship.

[01:14:00] John Krikorian: Exactly. Hey, and if you told me that would be our biggest problem, I’ll sign up for it every year.

[01:14:05] Mike Klinzing: There you go. Yep. Every year. Let’s take that and see what we can do and let’s take it and run. All right. Before we get out, John, I want to give you a chance to share how people can connect with you, find out more about your program, social media, email, website, whatever you want to share, and then I’ll jump back in and wrap things up.

[01:14:21] John Krikorian: Yeah. Well, on a personal level, I’m not much of a a social media guy, as you probably know. I’m bad, so I, I’m not even sure I can tell you that. What, are these? How do I even do that? Mike,

[01:14:34] Mike Klinzing: I’m going to find you right now.

[01:14:38] John Krikorian: I don’t even know.

Hashtag you write something. I’m going to find you. Basketball. You can find CNU basketball just about anywhere. Yep. Yep. Go ahead. You are, you’re,

[01:14:48] Mike Klinzing: the program’s, Twitter is at C N U basketball, which I think that’s what I always tag when I, there you go. Put the replay of your old episodes out.

So there you go. That’s where we, that’s where, that’s where you want to go. Start it at CNU basketball on Twitter. And then that will get you anywhere else you need to know to find more about John and the program at Christopher Newport. And again,

[01:15:09] John Krikorian: Mike, hold on. Hold on. You’re not going to ask about the earrings

[01:15:13] Mike Klinzing: All right. Tell me about the earrings.

[01:15:15] John Krikorian: You don’t know about the earrings? I don’t know

[01:15:17] Mike Klinzing: I don’t know about the earrings. I missed the earrings.

[01:15:20] John Krikorian: So when we’re done, you can go on that at CNU basketball, I think it’s on the Twitter. Okay. If it might not even be on the Twitter, you might have to find it somewhere else, but, all right.

Mike Cherry was on one of my first teams here, was one of the all time great players. Conley Taylor, Paul Meredith. We had some guys, and we went to the NCAA tournament my second year, I think it was 2011-12. And they knew how much I hate jewelry, like on me or any of that, like tattoos, none of that stuff.

It’s really for me. And they said, coach, well, if we win a national championship, you’ll get a tattoo. I said, no way. I’m not getting a tattoo. They said, how about earrings? I said, all right, I’ll do earrings. I said, I’ll do earrings. So it got passed on year after year after year. And as we’ve gotten closer, it just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

So about two weeks ago after our team banquet, we went over to the tattoo parlor and I got earrings in. Nice. It’s all video. We filmed the whole thing. It’s ridiculous.

[01:16:24] Mike Klinzing: I’m looking through the Twitter. I don’t see it on the CNU basketball Twitter,

[01:16:29] John Krikorian: sMy managers are probably smart enough to know I would not approve of that.

[01:16:33] Mike Klinzing: They’re like we’re not risking the ire of Coach Krikorian putting that on.

[01:16:37] John Krikorian: They’re gone. I already took them out. They’re done. I never promised how long I’d keep them in, so I kept them in for about four days.

So you have to find, it might be somewhere in like you have to, we’re going to find it deep, deep and find it, but it’s out there and you’ll, we’re going to get a good laugh.

[01:16:53] Mike Klinzing: We’re going to find it.

[01:16:54] Jason Sunkle: Use it as the headliner. Use it as the headliner picture. Mike.

[01:16:58] Mike Klinzing: The photo’s going to lead the episode. So we’re going to put that You do that.

[01:17:04] John Krikorian: You do that and We’ll never talk again. Mike, I will never on or off the air ever again.

[01:17:12] Mike Klinzing: Well, I’ll tell you one thing.

We are going to put the last minute of the of the national championship game in the show notes for sure. We will definitely put a link to that so that people can see it. And listen, I’ll say what I said at the very beginning, congratulations. It is an unbelievable accomplishment.

And after talking to you back when we first met down at the Bilas camp and then doing the episode, which I don’t know what that four years ago. Probably is when we, when we talked the last time. And I remember coming out of that conversation just thinking about the fact that a lot of the things, what I remember about that conversation was just how I felt like you were, you were very forward thinking and that you were always looking for ways to get an edge for your team on and off the floor.

And I’m, I’m happy for you that all those things have paid off and that you reached, you reached the pinnacle. And anybody who listens to the conversation tonight can tell that that’s you got to the top of the mountain. And I, I think there’s no question that you want to stay there.

And so, again, congratulations to you. Congratulations to your team. Congratulations to the entire Christopher Newport community for getting that thing done. And again, we’re, we’re so thankful for you taking the time out of your schedule to join us and go, go through this championship season.

[01:18:32] John Krikorian: My pleasure, Mike. It was great to be on. Thanks. I love what you’re doing, man. Keep it up. You’re putting so much good content out there for people to get better. I enjoy listening to it when I can. I can’t say I listen to all of them.

[01:18:44] Mike Klinzing: Understood. Well, we’re cranking out a lot of episodes, man.

So if you’re listening to all of them, you probably aren’t, you probably aren’t doing what you’re supposed to be doing. So if you catch one once in a while, we’ll take that. But again, thank you. We really appreciate your time and to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.