ROB GARDINER - RECRUITING COACH AT NCSA - EPISODE 604

Website – https://www.ncsasports.org/ncsa-staff/rob-gardiner

Rob Gardiner is a Recruiting Coach with NCSA, Next College Student Athlete. At NCSA Rob helps student-athletes and families by guiding them through the recruiting process and helping them find the right college fit on and off the basketball court.

Gardiner was previously an assistant coach at D2 Lincoln Memorial University in Tennessee during the 2020 – 2021 season. He also coached at D2 Ashland University for 8 seasons and was named associate head coach prior to the 2019-20 season after joining the Eagles as a graduate assistant in 2012.

Prior to Ashland, Gardiner was a graduate assistant at Division I Wright State from 2010-12.

A four-year letter winner and two-year team captain as a player at Ohio Wesleyan, Gardiner led the Battling Bishops to the 2008 NCAA Division III Men’s Basketball Sweet 16.

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Have a notebook handy as you listen to this episode with Rob Gardiner, Recruiting Coach at NCSA.

What We Discuss with Rob Gardiner

The competitiveness of Michael Jordan
Why he loved playing for his high school coach, Jamey Collins, at Dublin Coffman High School in Ohio
“Basketball for me growing up was truly an all day thing.”
How former NBA player and current Miami Heat assistant coach Chris Quinn helped set the culture at Dublin Coffman
The drama of the NBA vs. the actual games and what fans consume more of
His decision to attend Ohio Wesleyan University
“Basketball’s important and you want to make a decision that includes basketball, but there’s more to college than basketball.”
“Pay attention to schools that are paying attention to you.”
Finding the right level of college basketball that will be a great fit
“Your hardest day in basketball in high school is every day in college.”
“There’s no magic pill, there’s no magic button of how to get ahead in life or how to be a great player. It’s just put in the work each and every day.”
Thinking and learning like a coach while you’re still playing
Getting a GA position at Wright State after graduation
The singular focus on basketball kept him in college rather than his original plan to be a high school teacher and coach
What he learned about the importance of preparation from Billy Donlen at Wright State
“Details matter, preparation matters.”
Getting another GA position at Ashland University and his experiences there over 8 seasons
“This ain’t no nine to five, boy.”
Leaving Ashland for Lincoln Memorial University in Tennessee
His decision to leave coaching and work for NCSA
Helping kids with every aspect of their college basketball recruitment
What are you looking for in a college basketball experience? Do you want to play? Will you be happy sitting on the bench?
Choosing the right AAU team and how college coaches view the AAU environment vs. the high school environment when evaluating a player
Tips for players when using email and social media to connect with college coaches
The value of college elite camps
After highlights the second thing coaches look at is a player’s GPA
The importance of good academics and how that opens up more options for a player to be recruited
Building and sustaining relationships with college coaches in his current position
“Don’t just sit there in the chair, by yourself, staring at the games, talk to the coaches next to you.”
Mentorship and helping kids
3 areas where players and families lack knowledge – 1. The level where they can play. 2. How to contact college coaches. 3. The importance of academics
Always looking for the next challenge

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THANKS, ROB GARDINER

If you enjoyed this episode with Rob Gardiner let him know by clicking on the link below and sending him a quick shout out on Twitter:

Click here to thank Rob Gardiner on Twitter!

Click here to let Mike & Jason know about your number one takeaway from this episode!

And if you want us to answer your questions on one of our upcoming weekly NBA episodes, drop us a line at mike@hoopheadspod.com.

TRANSCRIPT FOR ROB GARDINER – RECRUITING COACH AT NCSA – EPISODE 604

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here with my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight, and we are pleased to welcome to the podcast recruiting coach from NCSA. Rob Gardiner. Rob, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.

[00:00:11] Rob Gardiner: Thanks a lot, Mike. Jason, happy to be here tonight.

[00:00:16] Mike Klinzing: Excited to have you on Rob.

We’re going to learn more about your background here in a second, but for those in our audience, Rob has an extensive history of coaching college basketball, and now he’s made the transition to become a recruiting coach. And so we’re going to dive into exactly what that means and what Rob can do and how he can help student athletes and families.

So let’s go back in time, Rob, to when you were a kid, start there. Tell us a little bit about how you got into the game about when you were younger.

[00:00:42] Rob Gardiner: I tell you what, Mike, I was a basketball junkie growing up. I mean, I was the kid who had Michael Jordan, newspapers, plastered all over his wall.

And so I was just exposed to the game at a very early age. My dad love him to death, bless his heart expose me to the game, not the best player you know, but he really exposed me to the game and taught me a lot about, and really just got me into basketball. And so but yeah, I was a basketball junkie growing up from just following the Chicago bulls.

Anything, NBA, anything college, I was just all about basketball, really.

[00:01:16] Jason Sunkle: You’re trying to start off on a good note here by bringing up Michael Jordan. So anybody who’s listened to them, anybody who’s listening to the podcast,

[00:01:25] Rob Gardiner: probably a minute

[00:01:25] Mike Klinzing: tangent, and here we go, we just didn’t take it. Didn’t take us long to get right off track.

This is perfect.

[00:01:30] Rob Gardiner: I love it. No, all day on ultimate Jordan DVDs and you know, all the old Michael Jordan videos. I can’t tell you how many times

[00:01:38] Mike Klinzing: I’m with you. So I grew up and I’m 52. I’m about to be 52 anyway. And so when I was, let’s see, 11, 12, 13 years old, that’s obviously when Jordan comes on the scene with the tar heels.

And just from that point on, I just became the biggest Michael Jordan fan that ever was possible. And so whenever I get into these discussions and start talking about the Jordan versus the LeBron, which obviously is the hot debate. Now, it always just becomes, I can’t anybody who was there to watch Jordan.

I just can’t fathom in any way, shape or form how you could ever possibly make the argument. He wasn’t the greatest player. I always tell Jason and tell anybody that wants to argue. Not that Jason argues with me, but that Jordan just felt inevitable. I’ve never watched another athlete in any other sport.

Maybe I guess Tom Brady comes close, but that’s not true. You see other

[00:02:32] Jason Sunkle: But that’s not true. You see other players being inevitable, more like inevitable collapse, James Harden, inevitable, inevitable the wrong way,

[00:02:40] Rob Gardiner: next team,

[00:02:41] Mike Klinzing: correct. Go into the going and going on and just not coming through. But Jordan just was, man. I remember just sitting and watching and just knowing that this guy is going to figure out a way to get it, go get it done.

I’ve never felt that way about any other athlete in my life. And then that goes beyond just his ability as a player and his mental toughness and all the things. As a coach, if you could develop in your players, there’s so many positive things that Jordan obviously brought to the table, but I think that mental toughness is really what set them apart.

And you think about just how great athletes are at that NBA level. That it’s really the guys that have the will that end up being the best. I think Jordan just stood head and shoulders above everybody else when it comes to.

[00:03:26] Rob Gardiner: Yeah. And at the time he, Michael Jordan is the ultimate example of just the ultimate athlete of being one of the most athletic people ever to play any sport being ultimately skilled and then being just supremely competitive.

I mean, you talk about being a killer, whether it’s Serena Williams, whether it’s Kobe Bryant whether it’s Diana Taurasi, I mean, you hear about just these, these Supreme competitive people and you know, whether across any a professional, we talk in basketball here, but Michael Jordan just absolutely embodied that for the last 30 to 45 years.

[00:03:59] Mike Klinzing: There was never anybody that. I think wanted to win more than Jordan man. It was interesting to go back and Jason and I did a podcast after each episode of the last day. It’s a beautiful, beautiful article, but to go back and be able to live that again. And there are some details that you kind of forget as you go on and get older and things, fade things, fade from memory.

So to have that come back and be able to see it. And just remember in the moment, just how great Jordan was, how competitive he was, how much he wanted to win, how much. Just thrived on people, challenging him or even perceived.

[00:04:37] Rob Gardiner: It’s like whether you’re in the media the famous, I mean, high school, whether it’s Buzz Peterson in North Carolina thought that he was better than him going into North Carolina.

So he’s like, I’m going to beat out Buzz Peterson and you know, just anything. And I mean a book I’m not plugging a book, but like if you read that Blood in the Garden, I can’t remember the name of the author is escaping me right now, but just came out. But I thought the nineties Knicks and just those competitive series from like 92 93, Xavier McDaniel, Charles Oakley, Michael Jordan, Scotty Pippin.

I mean, it’s just, it, it brings back so many good nostalgic memories for me.

[00:05:12] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. And that documentary, as you’re watching it as one of those things where. You just never wanted it to end, like you got tent up. So I was like, wait, this thing’s done. Like there’s, there’s gotta be more like, what’s up, what’s on the cutting room floor.

I don’t even care if it’s coherent, I’ll watch it. It doesn’t matter what it is.

[00:05:28] Rob Gardiner: And was that not the perfect time for that to come out? I mean, we’re know just the depths of, of COVID locked down at the time. And I mean, I think everyone is in your shoes, Mike, to where it’s like, no, give us, give us 10 more hours.

[00:05:40] Mike Klinzing: There’s no question I could have watched. I could just sit and watch that for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours on loop and never, never get sick of it. The best part to me, part I loved the most was the, the highlights with the guard and the guard. And when he scored 63 and you had the LL cool j I’m bad playing have to go along with that.

I’m like, there’s no better song to go along with those highlights. And just, that was sort of Jordan’s coming out party in the NBA where I think people really became aware like this, Hey, this guy

[00:06:13] Rob Gardiner: I was going to say, I think my favorite part was when he was looking at the. And I took

[00:06:19] Mike Klinzing: that personally. I took that first that’s right.

I took that personally. He didn’t know he was, he was he was setting sail for a thousand memes right there with his, with, with a, with some of the quotes in there. But yeah, it was just amazing. And I think Jordan, like I said, as great as LeBron is and his longevity and what he’s been able to do is been incredible.

But to me, at least in my lifetime, anybody that I’ve actually watched play, there’s no possible argument that anybody can make that would ever get me to believe. Jordan is not the greatest player of all time. And maybe there’s going to be somebody that comes around at some point that surpasses them. But man, it’s, I don’t know.

I don’t know who that person is going to be really good way to make an early run anyway. Okay. All right. All right. So we do know his name’s Brandon Goodwin on the calves, but we I’ve, I’ve adopted him and decided to call him Billy Goodwin just for some reason. So, so Jason, I call him Billy all the time, but nonetheless, I don’t think Billy is going to catch Jordan and I don’t think anybody else is either.

So, all right. Enough of a Michael Jordan tangent, let’s get back Rob to your story. You’re growing up and you grew up in Dublin, Ohio. And did you play any other sports besides basketball?

[00:07:29] Rob Gardiner: Growing up played a lot of sports, played baseball, played soccer would just love to compete, love to be out there on any form of competition.

And you get to that point in life whether it’s getting into middle school or high school where you kind of got to decide do I want to go down a single sport? And I kind of put baseball aside at the time and decided to focus a hundred percent on basketball, just because I knew I wanted to spend every waking hour on basketball.

I mean, I ate, slept and breathed basketball from mornings to evenings. And so I knew that this is what I wanted to do. And so going into high school, Two great coaches at Coffman. Tony Bornhorse was a long time coach at Dublin Coffman. And I went to his camps year after year and was a really great basketball coach and just really instill kind of that, that toughness and competitive mindset.

And then I was very lucky to play for Jamey Collins, who is a one of the best high school coaches in the country. And just really gave me a lot of confidence, really believed in me really from my freshman year. And so just really provided me a good atmosphere to grow and just a lot of confidence in me and allowed me to really kind of spread my wings.

And honestly, one of the things he does better, I think, than any high school coach in the country is open up the gym. Now I’m not trying to get coach in trouble here by saying like maybe some keys were left places or maybe some rocks where but I was, that’s a different time where the doors weren’t as a.

Maybe as they are now in high schools, but there was always a way to get into the, to the Dublin Coffman gym. And I think Jamey Collins is one of the best coaches in the country at helping his players achieve their full potential.

[00:09:12] Mike Klinzing: And I think that goes to something that we’ve talked about on the podcast is just in order to have a successful high school program today as a high school coach, you really have to have the gym open and giving your players opportunities to get in and get better, whether that’s working on skill development and just getting in there and getting up shots or working on their game or having the gym open.

So guys can play open gym. We’re bringing in other schools in the times when that’s legal to be able to do. And I think the amount of time that high school coaches put in when you start talking about, especially I think the parents of high school athletes, and I’m sure now in your current role, that when you have these conversations that parents of high school players, I don’t think have a real good grasp on how much time.

The average high school coach puts in. And then to double back on that, I think the coaches that are really tremendously successful, the baseline has been raised in terms of how much time you have to put in. It’s certainly higher than it was 15 or 20 years ago. And the coaches that are the most successful successful are the ones that have to put in a ton of time to do exactly what you described to get the gym open, to be able to have kids.

And that’s all times. The coach has to spend that as you and I both know that that’s unpaid time, let’s put it that way. And coaches, coaches do that out of the love of the game.

[00:10:31] Rob Gardiner: Yes. Exact and that’s something that, that, yeah, no, I’m, Jamey does a great job of just opening up the gym and just developing a competitive environment.

You know, whether it’s just allowing kids like myself to get in and just work by themselves or creating open gyms. I mean, we started it’s still running a tradition there, but it’s a July. Open gym. And I mean, that started just, I think my sophomore year maybe would just kind of eight of us going in on July 4th and just having an open gym that morning, just cause we just wanted to hoop they, and now I think Kauffman does it where, I mean, there’s literally alumni that come back and I think they get up to 30 to 40 people there on July 4th kind of running an open gym tournament.

And so just basketball is really in the culture there at Dublin Coffman. And so it really just allows kids the opportunity, like you said, Mike, not only just to play, but to compete into really get better and just develop, I mean, lifelong friendships. I still have to this day.

[00:11:23] Mike Klinzing: When you think about your experience as a high school player, once you got to the point where you gave up other sports.

So now you’re a high school athlete and you’re focused in on basketball. What did, I don’t know if there was a typical day, but what did a day. In your summer look like in terms of you spending time, trying to improve your game and work at work at the game of basketball?

[00:11:45] Rob Gardiner: All day, all day. And that, I mean, that’s, that’s no exaggeration to where I was very lucky.

We moved into a house, we moved into Columbus probably when I was in third grade and we actually moved into a neighborhood right across the street from the high school. And so I’d be able to go over to the high school gym, basically, whenever I wanted rode my bike over there every morning before school over the summer in the mornings, going over there, working out, and then we maybe we’d have like a team workout or something like that.

And then you get in the weight room and then during, depending on what time it is if it’s June in Ohio, we’re doing high school stuff. You know, and so it’s high school practices then when you do team camps or summer leagues or stuff like that if it’s may or June or July, we’re doing a few practices.

And so, I mean, basketball for me growing up was truly an all day thing. I, I had two younger brothers that I love to compete with. You know, both played basketball and we’re both very good athletes. And so just that, that, that competition day in and day out, no, it was really something that I just craved and still crave to this day.

[00:12:49] Mike Klinzing: How did you put together a workout for yourself? What did you base it on? Was it you just trying to figure it out? Did you sit down with your coaches? How did you go about putting together when you’re working on your game by yourself? How did you figure out what you wanted to work on and exactly what kind of drills and things you were going to do? Just curious.

[00:13:08] Rob Gardiner: Yeah. And a lot of that would be some self-awareness and you know, now how much awareness self-awareness does a 16 to 17 year old have you know, it’s probably a sliding scale of, of not very much. And so, yeah, I’d put together a workout of I knew my weaknesses. I knew I wasn’t a great three-point shooter.

I knew I wasn’t a tremendous floater left-hand finishing. And so I’d work a lot on those situations as far as you know, how to develop a quicker release, extending my three-point range, diversifying the types of three-point shots I was able to take. You know, and so, but then I’d also talk to my coach.

You know, Jamey was very good. And once again spending time with me as far as developing an individual game plans, These are the things you need to get better at, right? If you want to play at the college level, these are the things that you need to get better at. And he’d give me a couple of drills and one thing I was very lucky to at Dublin Coffman is the alumni come back a lot.

And so the alumni come back a lot and work out with the high school players during the summer, whether that are college guys that come back and work out with the high school kids fortunate at Delmont coffin, we have, we’ve had a couple of pros from coffin who had come back over the summer.

And specifically Chris Quinn, who was played in Notre Dame, played in the NBA, his assistant coach with the Miami Heat right now. And he really said a lot of the culture at Dublin Coffman for workouts and really helped me out personally with some of those summer workouts and really how to improve my game, especially as a point guard.

[00:14:36] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. To be able to have that connection. When you start talking about. Program and not just having a one-off successful team, but if you’re a high school coach and you really year in and year out, you built your building, that program, that alumni base is a huge part of having success. So I think it goes both ways, right?

You have the alumni who come back and participate in the program and support the program. Whether that’s, again, working out with players are coming back for open gyms, just heck just showing up a games, right? Oh yeah. And that, and then you have the same piece of it on the other end of it, where it’s really important.

I feel for high school coaches to make those connections with the younger players in the program. So you’re going back and you’re getting involved in the youth program. You’re getting to know those kids when they’re in second, third, fourth grades. And so that eventually they aspire to want to be a part of your program because they know you as the coach, they know the players who are part of the program.

They come to games on Friday night. So they’re like, man, I can’t wait till I can put on the uniform and go out there and get, get out on the floor. And I think that’s one of the things when you look. The most successful high school programs, especially when you’re talking about public schools, you’re talking about both of those things.

You’re talking about a connection with the youth program, and you’re talking about a connection with the alumni, which it sounds like basically that

[00:15:49] Rob Gardiner: Yes, and I can’t overemphasize what you talked there about Mike, as far as camps and growing up myself, I mean, I idolized the high school, varsity basketball team so whether it’s going to high school games or whether it’s going to those camps over the summer and you know, I idolized those and those were my heroes.

And so I was like, I couldn’t wait to put that. The high school Jersey going into high school. And so that’s something that I still love working camps today, working kids camps, just because I tell high school guys, that’s all in college guys these kids idolize you.

And so you, you want to make sure that you give them a great experience not only from a basketball perspective, but just make sure that they have fun. And so that’s something that, yeah, I always had a great experience at camps growing up and yeah, Dublin does a great job of just creating that brotherhood, creating that community around the program.

[00:16:42] Mike Klinzing: What’s your favorite memory from playing high school? Basketball is one or two stand out for you.

[00:16:46] Rob Gardiner: Ah, I’d say there there’s a couple, I mean, I was lucky enough to be on a three years of varsity, very successful. We never made it to the state championship or anything like that, but we want to district, we won district my sophomore year and then lost in the district championship game twice, my junior and senior year lost three straight times to Brookhaven.

And so, I mean, that was back when, I mean, you guys remember Brookhaven and they had Andrew Lavender and they had Jamelle Corny. They were absolute dynasty back in the mid to early two thousands and out of Columbus. And so I mean a couple of one memory was my junior year. We won our league and we just had a great crowd.

We had a. It was against our arch rival Westland. And it was the last game came down to add our place and we know be Westland at our place packed house sold out. And so that was just fun. We were playing against Josh Bostic, who was a great player from Westland, went on to Finley and it was the national player of the year at Finley helped them to a national championship in 2009.

So that was a great experience. And then just another kind of funny experience. I don’t know if funny’s the right word, but you know, So we’re in the tournament, we’re in the fairgrounds. It’s my junior year. And I’m driving. I can’t remember what game it was. Might have been the district semi-finals and I just make a hard cut in front of my bench.

I think just a right to left crossover in my right foot. Just goes full Zion. I mean, just goes right through the shoe and you know, and I still have to shoe by the way. It’s cool. I mean, honestly, Zion copied me and so my, my shoe goes, my foot goes right through the shoe and I literally just take the shoe off, throw it at the bench right there.

And someone just throws me at another shoe right there and continue to play the rest of the game.

[00:18:28] Mike Klinzing: Hopefully your foot’s in better shape than Zion’s is.

[00:18:31] Rob Gardiner: Yes, exactly. Yeah. My feet are good. Yeah. So Zion and I are, are not exactly the same time.

Jason Sunkle: Rob Zion question for you. Will Zion Williamson play more or less than 250 games in his NBA?

Rob Gardiner: I say more. I’m an optimist with that.

[00:18:50] Jason Sunkle: You’re crazy. He’s not playing 250 games.

[00:18:53] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, Jason’s on this. Jason’s on this train. He doesn’t think he’s going to play two 50. I’m on I’m with you, Rob. I bet the over, but man, it’s, it’s kind of scary when you look at his size and just the things that he does and he’s so such a unique player, just, I mean, it’s, it kills you when this guy can’t get out on the floor.

And obviously, as you said, who knows if he’s going to end up staying in new Orleans or not staying in new Orleans? Just because of the silence that there’s been, this void of information. And obviously when there’s a void, lots of people jump in with their thoughts and opinions and who knows what’s right.

And what’s wrong. And whether he’s happy or unhappy, who knows, but man, it just to not have that gout on the floor. Cause when he’s been out there and he’s been healthy, he’s

[00:19:38] Rob Gardiner: been, oh yeah. I mean, I hope he kind of from a health perspective it’s kinda like, is he going to go Greg Oden or is he gonna go Joel Embiid. I mean, barely played his first three years. And then now you look at him and I mean, best player in the league and you know, top three, whatever you want to say, but you know, that’s my hope for Zion. I got, I’m more hopeful and optimistic when it comes to stuff like this, but also you’re never surprised when, when something happens in the NBA, it’s whether it’s guys asking out of teams or anything, it’s just you’re never surprised.

[00:20:11] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. These days. It’s a totally different world in the NBA today, just in terms of contracts. And I think the next collective bargaining agreement is going to be very interesting to see. It seems like the league always has an idea in mind of how to be able to make things flow smoother. Like the last contract, they were obviously very concerned about trying to get teams that already had superstars to be able to reassign those guys and have them stay.

And then it’s turned out. Then you end up with contracts like John Wall or Westbrook where

[00:20:48] Rob Gardiner: you can’t do it. Can’t let them yeah.

[00:20:49] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. You can’t let those guys go for nothing. And yet the alternative is you sign them to a $45 million salary, which seems absolutely crazy. Even in the moment while you’re doing it.

I’m sure that those teams are just, you’re kind of biting the inside of your cheek going, man. I hope this works out, even though you kind of know that you’re just, you just paint yourself into a corner. So it’s. Law of unintended consequences, where they had good intentions, but then there’s always something that you didn’t think about or a way of looking at it that nobody had considered prior to.

And so it’ll be interesting to see what they, how they approach this next collective bargaining agreement, both on the player side and the owner side and see if they can some out, maybe they don’t want to. I mean, because of all the talk about just where guys are going and this and that and the drama, there’s, it just generates a lot more interest in the league, which certainly is good for business.

But it’s hard to take sometimes as a fan that here’s a guy that signed a five-year contract and after a year he wants to leave. And especially like in Harden’s case, like it’s one thing you want out and you keep playing, but man, to just dogging. Yes.

[00:21:58] Rob Gardiner: As far as yeah. The CBA. Yeah. Like you said, it’s always going to be unintended consequences.

And a lot of it is just cause I mean, those GMs in front offices are so smart and necessity is the mother of invention. And so whatever rules are put in place and you know, I mean people, players GMs everyone is good. They’re going to find loopholes because Hey, they’re trying to win.

And so they’re, they’re going to find loopholes around that. But I mean, I think an interesting conversation, I don’t know if we have time to get into it, but you know, that you hear a lot now is the drama of the NBA becoming more important than the games? I mean, I guess not important, but more popular than the games.

[00:22:35] Mike Klinzing: That’s a great question. I think when I think about how I consume the NBA, I probably spent, so I have about a 45 to 50 minute. Each way every day to my job. So during that time, most often what I’m listening to is some kind of NBA podcast programming. That’s what I’m listening to. So, so that’s basically an hour and a half a day that I’m consuming.

Not necessarily just drama, cause obviously there’s some basketball analysis that goes in there, but a lot of it is speculation and drama. And then I think about the amount of actual games that I’m watching, especially in the regular season, on the regular season, I’m going to catch Cavs games and I’ll occasionally catch a one of the national games.

And, but I’m not, I’m probably consuming more of the drama. And then when I factor in what I’m reading, I’m probably consuming more of the drama than I am the actual basketball. Now when it comes to the playoffs, I think that probably excuse back to that more actual basketball, but I think you’re, I think you’re right.

That, that piece of it that’s outside of the game, that’s on the floor that. Part that’s behind the scenes. That’s part that’s in the front office. That’s part, that’s the, the rumor mill, the thoughts of, Hey, what’s going to happen next and who’s going here and the draft and all these different things. I think there’s a huge, huge market for that.

And you can see just by the proliferation of websites and writers and podcasters and all those things, people. Again, that just loved talking about the league. And again, a lot of it is most is speculation about who’s going where, and what’s happening next and not necessarily what’s actually happening on the floor.

[00:24:17] Rob Gardiner: Oh yeah. And especially like you said, during the regular season the storylines and can kind of take over instead of the actual X’s and O’s, but I do think once we get into the playoffs, then you really see the actual X’s and O’s the analysis come out. And even during the year right now, I mean, some of the best whether you’re I mean, we all know have our own X’s and O’s people we listen to, but it’s just it’s, you can find it.

But yeah, it’s just, I, I was thinking about, or heard someone posed that question the other day and I’ve just that kind of dichotomy and just what are we leaning more towards? I think it was Ryan Russillo, who said like their biggest ratings for basketball are during that, like that July free agent period.

[00:25:00] Mike Klinzing: You can see why. Right. It’s the hope. It’s the hope. So every organization, if you’re a fan of any of the 30 teams, when it come now, again, most teams probably realistically don’t have a shot at getting free agent X or Y, but they might have the opportunity to get some kind of free agent.

[00:25:18] Jason Sunkle: are you saying Zion’s not going to Orlando,

[00:25:21] Mike Klinzing: Not quite. Probably not going to Orlando. And nobody’s coming to Cleveland. I don’t think, unless again, they, they grew up 30 miles from the city of Cleveland, so that I don’t think that’s going to happen again anytime soon where we’re going to be able to do that.

So we better continue to build organically. I like what the Cavs have right now, but yeah, it’s I don’t know.

[00:25:43] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, well, they’re struggling, I think tonight. So they were, I know they were down 15 at half time. There you go.

All right. All right, there you go. Well, nonetheless, I do think that the NBA’s popularity has skyrocketed due to all of those things kind of around it, which is funny because baseball used to be that way. Right? Baseball used to be, it used to be baseball free agency, the hot stove league. And back when I was a kid that was kind of where people talked about the trades and that, but now baseball is kind of dying.

At least in that respect, you don’t have the same level of interest in it that you used to. And basketball has certainly surpass that. Has her has certainly surpassed baseball when it comes to the hot stove season in July with free agency and everything else. So the is in an interesting place.

There’s a ton of talent in the league and I’m going to definitely looking forward to the playoffs this year should be fun. And the. I think is at least in terms of interests and producing for interesting series, I think the east is going to be, it’s going to be a bloodbath this year, which is normally how you feel about the west.

[00:26:52] Rob Gardiner: Every game in the Eastern conference playoffs, it’s just going to be a master chess match.

[00:26:58] Mike Klinzing: Plus you have a lot of different styles and different kinds of teams. It’s just seeing how hard the beat are gonna fit together and who’s going to be playing for Brooklyn. And he got the crazy calves, big lineups. And there’s just a lot of interesting teams that do a lot of different things, which makes those styles make the flight.

Right. So if you have the exact different styles that makes the coaching a lot more interesting to watch. All right, let’s jump back to your career as a player. Talk a little bit about your recruitment, how you ended up at Ohio Wesleyan. What was your process like for making a decision about where you’re going to go to school?

Where are you going to continue your basketball career?

[00:27:37] Rob Gardiner: Yeah. And as, as we all do I thought I was a division one player my junior year and your, I thought I was going to be a division one player. And I’m a six foot in the program point guard and not overly fast, not overly skill, not overly athletic and knee problems not a division one player.

It’s like, you look back it’s like, what was I thinking? And so You know, so I ended up getting a lot of division three recruitment, a lot of schools around great. Ohio’s great for division threes. And so I got recruited to a couple division threes in Ohio and eventually ended up at Ohio Wesleyan university.

And it’s a school that I just felt comfortable at as far as from a basketball perspective, as far as I just fit the basketball culture. There, there were really a program that was on the up and up socially. It was a thing where I just really enjoyed the culture there going on visits there.

I just really thought fit with guys in that culture. And then academically, I did actually care about my academics. I know that’s kind of cliche to say, but academics were factor. And so they did have a good I, I originally wanted to be a teacher and a coach at the high school level.

And so they had an unbelievable education program. And so it allowed Ohio Wesleyan was a school that allowed me to, to step in and compete for minutes right away as a freshmen and for a program that was on the up and up while getting a phenomenal education and being around great teammates that I wanted to hang out with off the court in the cafeteria and compete with every day.

[00:29:08] Mike Klinzing: What do you take away from your experience being recruited that you can personally share in your current role? Is there things that you can look back at and say, this is something that I did. Well, and it really helped me to end up in the right place. And then conversely, was there, were there mistakes that you made that you could share and say, Ooh, this is something that maybe I should have done better, or maybe there’s something I did, but I probably shouldn’t have done that.

Is there anything that sticks out to you?

[00:29:38] Rob Gardiner: I think looking at it from our basketball’s important and you want to make a decision that includes basketball, but there’s more to college than basketball. All right. And so I really looked at Ohio Wesleyan and like I said, it’s a, that’s a great fit for me where I’m going to grow from an athletic perspective on the basketball court.

I’m going to grow socially. And I’m going to be around the right type of people who are going to challenge me and go, I talk about positive peer pressure, right? And then it’s going to help me grow academically and help me have a career for the next 60 to 70 years. Just because I tell everyone the ball is going to stop bouncing for you at some point, whether you’re 18, whether you’re 22, whether you’re 32 and you know, the ball’s going to stop bouncing for you at some point.

And so you gotta have a degree and a career that you gotta be ready to go with. And so Ohio Wesleyan and coach Mike Dewitt, and his assistant at the time was actually John Vanderwal, who was who’s now at Marietta now, a very successful coach there, but coach Dewitt really kind of painted that picture for me.

And as far as giving me a vision for my future and allowing me to see that and then giving me an opportunity to pursue it. And so something that I would probably do differently is I would, and this is a very common especially in the job that I have now and seeing this is go to work.

Give attention, pay attention to schools that are paying attention to you. And so when you wait, cause we all want to play at North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Stanford exactly. And so, but just how unrealistic that is. Cause once again, 16, 17, 18 year olds don’t exactly have the most self-awareness.

And so you want to go to a place that’s showing you love showing you attention, and that if you’re a good basketball player, you want to go to a place where you can play, right. And then playing compete for a championship. All right. I mean we look at it whether it’s a division three kid looking to go division two or division two kids looking to go division one and just kind of scrape in at that bottom tier, whatever that next tier is.

And are you competing just to make your conference tournament and barely play or do you want to go to a level that’s a good fit for you where you can play a lot and have a chance to compete for a conference championship and even a potential national championship.

[00:31:52] Mike Klinzing: How do you feel. Adjustment was for you coming in both as a player.

[00:31:59] Rob Gardiner: And as a student, as a player was tough. I’m not going to lie. It was tough. And my old boss at Ashland, John Elwood says this and new it’s extremely true that your hardest day in basketball and high school. Is every day in college. I mean, just so you walk in as a freshmen and once again, whether you’re going in division one, division two division three in AI, you’re walking in from boys basketball to men’s basketball.

And so it is a huge difference in size speed, athleticism, some skill level. And so, I mean, I, yeah, I struggled as a freshmen and I was lucky enough to work myself into the backup point guard getting probably 12 to 15 minutes a game, but still you walk in there, you’re coming off as senior year where yeah, I’m hot stuff and, and you walk in there thinking, yeah, I’m going to take this program over. And you know, it’s like, no, you got sophomores juniors, seniors, and you got other freshmen that are coming in that were the best player in their high school’s history. And you’re not in high school anymore where you’re competing against baseball players, football players stuff like that.

Everyone who plays in college, whether it’s division three to division one is one of the best players in their high schools.

[00:33:10] Mike Klinzing: There’s no question about that. I think people have a very skewed idea of how good you have to be in order to play college basketball at any level. And I think you can just go and show up at an AAU tournament and have conversations with people.

And you quickly come to realize that most people, including players and parents just don’t have a great understanding of how good you have to be in order to play or be recruited at any level. And I think that’s probably one of the biggest misconceptions that are out there. And it’s interesting. One of the things that we’ve talked about with lots of coaches, especially on the division three level is the number of players that they talked to, that they’re recruiting, who maybe aren’t all that excited about being recruited by a division three school.

And yet they’ve never even seen a division three game and they have no idea. How good those players are. And I think if you get an opportunity, if you’re a high school player out there listening, or you’re a parent of a high school athlete, and you’re listening to this, get out wherever you are, wherever you live in the country and try to find a division three college basketball game and go and watch and see how good those players are.

And I think if we had more people that actually watched those games, especially in person, you would have a completely different outlook on what level you think you could play at and how good your experience could be. No matter whether you’re playing at the division one level or you’re playing at the division three level.

[00:34:40] Rob Gardiner: Oh, exactly. And, and I’m just speaking from experience at division three, but I absolutely loved my time playing at Ohio Wesleyan we were lucky enough we made to the sweet 16 my sophomore year. And so just being able to compete for conference championships, for national championships along with getting a great education and this is part of life is getting your book yet.

You know, you talk about your freshman year you’re going to get kicked in the teeth. And so but you got to learn in life that, yeah, you’re going to get kicked in the teeth, whether that is. A lot worse going after college. But you know, if you got, you got to learn how to deal with failure.

And so just because you’re going to fail at anything in life. And so you come in your freshman year, you’re going to get kicked in the teeth. And so you got to come back each and every day and just continue to do the work, continue to do the little things. There’s no magic pill, there’s no magic button of how to get ahead in life or how to be a great player.

It’s just put in the work each and every

[00:35:38] Mike Klinzing: I really do have to work at it. I think, especially when you get to college basketball, it’s a completely different animal than high school basketball. I’ve said numerous times that high school basketball, every single moment of it to me was fun. I don’t remember there ever being a day where I thought, oh, this is tough.

This was just every, every practice, every game, every open gym, every workout, everything was fun. Then he got the. And there was still a lot of fun in there, but there was also, there was also, there was also a lot of work and a lot of things that maybe didn’t seem as fun in the moment. And as you said, you got to put that time in, you got to go through the grind and you got to do that.

If you want to be able to ultimately have some success, both as a team and individually, as you think about your, as you think about your career, you got to really put that time in, as you were playing, you mentioned earlier that you kind of went into college with the idea that you wanted to be a teacher and a coach.

So as you’re playing, you’re going through your playing career, are you maybe paying closer attention to what your coaches were doing and what they were thinking, or were you more focused on. At this point, I’m just a player in coaching was kind of this nebulous thing that was maybe at the end of your playing career?

[00:36:53] Rob Gardiner: Yeah, I’d say once I got to my sophomore year, just cause freshman year, me and my head’s in a fishbowl. I mean, the world’s moving a million miles per hour. I’m sure it’s still trying to figure out what dorm I’m in, how do I not lose my room key, what were classes? And so once I got to my sophomore year kind of figure myself out a little bit, I knew I wanted to be a coach.

And like I said, I was a major in education in history and so wanting to be a history teacher, coach high school. And so I was definitely keenly aware, knew, and paid a lot more attention to coach Dewitt and, you know our assistant coaches and just kind of started to talk the game a little bit more than him as far as, why are we doing this?

Why are we doing that? And you know, and that’s a line that you get a lot more in college. Then you do in high school and high school. And in Jamey,Coach Collins was very good at including me with the conversations, but in high school, it’s a lot more listen to the coach and do this in college.

It’s a lot more, well, what do you see out there? Well, what do you see out there? What do you think we should do? You know, it’s a much more of a partnership in college than it is in high school. And so I embrace that and at the college level and just really, and you want to say with the coaching perspective in mind, but just, I was, I was very curious and just, I’m a very curious person by nature.

And so asking questions, whether it’s defensive schemes, offensive schemes and stuff like that. But yeah, definitely with that in mind of I want to be a coach in the future.

[00:38:23] Mike Klinzing: So when you graduate and your idea is to be a high school coach, and yet you ended up getting an opportunity to go to Wright state as a graduate assistant.

So how did that come to be. Was that something that it was just a great opportunity that you couldn’t pass up and you still thought, well, maybe after I get done there, I’m going to go back and be a high school coach. Did you know. Some feelers out there to get a teaching job and maybe get a coaching job at the high school level.

Just to, how did you get to that first coaching position at Wright State?

[00:38:55] Rob Gardiner: Yeah, I’m going down the full path of student teaching and going through that whole process as far as, okay. Now what’s Teaching and coaching life like after college. And I was very lucky, a friend of a friend coach Ray, who was a volunteer assistant at Kauffman, knew Billy Donlen, who was going to be the new head coach at Wright state coach Ray lived out in, in, in Dayton.

And so he connected me with coach Donlen who wants to get it was a new code, new head coach at Wright state land. So he was in the process of hiring his staff and, and coach knew how much of a basketball dork and junkie I was. And so. You kind of pushed me to pursue this graduate assistant role with Wright State.

And I was very lucky and still very thankful to the, to coach Donlen to this day for getting my foot in the door. Because talking with kids today whether it’s in guys looking to get into coaching, it’s so tough to get your foot in the door. And I was very, very fortunate to, to have this opportunity with the Wright state.

And I’m very thankful to coach downland for opening that door for me. But yeah. And so that opportunity presented itself and as soon as he offered it to me, I think I said yes before he even finished the sentence.

[00:40:07] Mike Klinzing: So how long into being a college coach, did it take for you to say, I think I want to stay in college coaching because I guess it also would be possible that you get in there and you’re like, man, maybe, maybe this isn’t everything that I thought it was maybe my original path.

Wanting to be a teacher and wanting to be a coach at the high school level. Maybe I go back to that. So how long was it into your experience at Wright state where you started to say, yeah, I think college is the right place for me.

[00:40:34] Rob Gardiner: Oh day one without a doubt. I still remember it to this day. I mean, it’s w we’re in there and the other GA at the time, Justin Ray, who was actually the head coach at Thomas Moore right now doing a great job down there.

And we’re, we’re doing our GA work, which is new ground work, as you would imagine but still it’s basketball. And I remember thinking like, well, I just skipped it. I get to work with basketball all day. Like I don’t have to because once again I mean Mike coming out of teaching developing lesson plans all day and going through all that paperwork and all that stuff.

And it, I loved teaching. I loved working with the kids which is translates to coaching, but just all that paperwork and stuff. And so I’m there and I’m like, wait, so we skipped you basketball all day. Like we get to work out, we get to do film. We get to obviously there’s like, as in any job there’s grown work and stuff, especially as a GA, but it’s like, I realized I can do it.

Just work with basketball all day. I’m not going back. This is it.

[00:41:33] Mike Klinzing: I could see that completely. I can see that completely, especially you describing your experience. So what kind of a basketball kid you were, and then all of a sudden, now you have the opportunity to sort of extend that where, yeah, you’re in college, you’re going to class, but still a lot of your life as a college basketball player revolves around college basketball.

Let’s face it. And so when you then get an opportunity at the coaching side of it to jump in, and as you said, be like, wow, all day long, I’m just doing basketball. And obviously there’s some tangential things that aren’t directly basketball related, but you’re still working on basketball. You’re not in a classroom teaching six different classes and doing lesson plans and paperwork and all the things that you talked about.

So yeah, completely something that I’m sure it was immediately attractive to you. And it’s like, I can get paid for this kind of your career. This isn’t a job I can get paid for doing basketball all day. Sign me up.

[00:42:28] Mike Klinzing: That’s pretty good. So what’s something that you learned in those first two years?

That if you had to pick one thing that sticks with you from that first experience. Even today, what’s something that you’ve learned in that first experience that is still here. That’s still part of what you do day in day out?

[00:42:46] Rob Gardiner: Preparation, preparation by far. And I was lucky enough to work with a great staff there.

And you know, remember coming from division three where I was at going to division one once again, we talk about all, all college, basketball is tough, but that’s a big jump from division three to division one. And so to see the level of preparation that goes into creating a college basketball division one program was, was very opening to me from everything from scouting reports to.

You know how coach Donlen organize the workouts to practices, to conditioning, to how everything was, was synergized with the weight training to team conditioning to academics to study. I mean, the preparation in detail detailed down to a minute was just at first overwhelming for me kind of coming from, I mean, where I was at coach Dewitt runs a very it’s a very successful promo.

It’s much more relaxed. And so going to a program. Very, very detail oriented and just that’s the one thing I learned there was how to prepare and just the ability to prepare allows you to be successful when the moment comes. And so that’s one thing that I’ve really taken in once again, and in anything that I do today, and I want to credit specifically kind of scout woods with this you know, he was, I typed up a lot of scattering reports and stuff like that, but I mean, if there was one typo or any thorough, our space in between, or this there should be a comma here.

I mean, he would come out and let me know about it. And you know, just the amount of preparation in detail when it’s like these guys, aren’t going to notice a comma, but it’s everything mattered. And that was just something that really stuck with me, which is details matter, preparation matters.

And you know, it’s, yeah, that was just one thing that really stood with me

[00:44:45] Mike Klinzing: and going from a division three program where obviously. The staff is much smaller, right? You have a head coach, you have an assistant coach. Maybe you have one other person that is involved. Maybe you have a part-time assistant. If you’re lucky at the division three level.

Now you go to a division, one staff where you have multiple guys and you can really focus in and dial in on that. I think what’s interesting is we’ve talked to guys like yourself. Who’ve started at the division one level as a graduate assistant or as a volunteer in some cases. And they talk about the exact same thing that you talked about just that you can really zero in on all those details, because you have enough staff that you can say, okay, you’re in charge of X and you’re taking care of Y.

And then you talk to some guys that have started at the division three level. And conversely, what they like to talk about is I kind of had to do everything. So as a coach, I was able to get my hands immediately. I was 22 and I was out on the road. I was the main recruiter and I was the guy that. The head coach gave me the defense that particular season.

And so it’s just interesting that no matter what avenue you find your way into the college game, you can figure out a way to be able to make your experience. One that you can build on as you move forward in your career, whether it’s at the division one level where maybe you’re more hyper-focused on a particular thing, or you’re even in a GA job where you’re not doing as much of the actual quote unquote coaching versus in division three, where you’re like, man, I got to do everything here.

And so I, I think there’s, I think there’s merits to both experiences, as long as you go into it with an open mind and you look at it and you keep your eyes open and just pay attention to what’s going on. So you can gather. The things that you need to learn in order to help you as you move on and advance in your career.

[00:46:30] Rob Gardiner: Exactly. As a division one GA I mean, you’re, you’re not coaching on the floor. And so but just the amount that I learned, I mean, if you want to do that in that first summer, in those first couple of workouts and just, I mean, coach Donlen has an unbelievable basketball mind. And so just learning from him, learning from the other coaches was just outstanding.

It was just basketball heaven. You know, even though it’s like I’m in there as a, as a practice dummy holding the towel, getting water, filming doing laundry, doing all those things, but it’s just, I’m, I’m an absolute sponge. And that’s just advice to anyone who is young and trying to get into coaching or is in their first coaching job and really all of us, all right.

We should be absolute sponges. And that’s just something that I just really remember about that time was just how I just absolutely learned so much.

[00:47:19] Mike Klinzing: Then your next opportunity comes at Ashland. Tell us a little bit about that.

[00:47:24] Rob Gardiner: Yeah. So two years at Wright State, and then it’s kind of like, okay, well what’s next I can check Hoop Dirt about every 30 minutes, you’ll see what openings, but it’s like, I’m not getting to know I’m not getting a job off hoop dirt like that’s not real.

And so but I was lucky enough to where a guy who actually recruited me, John Ellenwood when he was an assistant capital when I was in high school. And so he had actually recruited me to, to Capital and he loves to tell his story about how I ended up choosing Ohio Wesleyan over him. And that was for other factors go, coach wood did a great job of Capital.

And so anyway, now. You know, six years later, he’s the head coach at Ashland university and he has a GA opening. And so I was just at the GA for two years at Wright state, but I don’t have any other job opportunities. What do I do now? And so he offered me to go be the GA for his team at Ashland university.

And so I was very thankful and very lucky for that. And so I became a third year GA. And so when you’re that age, you have to do whatever you have to do to stay in the business. And you know, if that’s taken part-time job, that’s taken another a third year GA job. If that’s volunteering somewhere money wasn’t I, I made pennies and sped pennies.

I could care less I mean, I walk to work every day and just like the money didn’t matter. And so I just wanted to stay in the game, wanted to stay a part of basketball. And so I was very lucky that coach him and would offer me that GA spots. I was at Ashlyn for a year as a GA.

And then the assistant who was ahead of me at the time, Jared Ranae actually the head coach at Mount Vernon Nazarene right now left to take a division one assistant job. And so coach wood very thankful, elevated me to his full-time assistant there. And then I was his full-time assistant at Ashland for seven years.

What was that like, to make some money coaching? It was, it was different. It was different but it felt good. It was, yeah, it felt good. And but once again, it’s not about the money and just it was like, ah, this is just, this is passion. And so it’s you know, one of my favorite stories is one of the coaches at Wright state pulled me in literally the first time, first day on the job.

He said, well, me and the other GA and it said this ain’t no nine to five boy. And in no truer words have ever been spoken, as far as you know, coaching’s not a nine to five. And you know, whether you’re a high school coach, like we talked about in high school, the sacrifice to open up the gym in college, whether it’s division one, division two it’s not a nine to five, but it’s, it’s a passion.

And so the hours don’t matter. The money doesn’t matter. Especially to me, I was 25, 24 I didn’t didn’t have kids. And so the money was not the important thing to me at the time.

[00:50:12] Mike Klinzing: I think you have to love it, right. Especially when you get in at the beginning, because everybody sees the glamour, you see the guys who are division one head coaches, you see them as we head into March madness here, and you got guys in the tournament and all they’re making millions of dollars.

And sure. There are guys. Eventually make it to that level, but those guys are few and far between. And especially when you’re talking about young coaches, you’re going to have to get in where you fit in. You’re going to have to make probably no money. We always hear guys saying, Hey, you gotta be able to willing to move and go wherever you can in the country, wherever there’s a job, you gotta be willing to go there.

If you want to get into the business. And we’ve heard so many stories Rob, about guys that talked about I’ve living in a basement somewhere and I’m making no money and I’m eating ramen noodles. And some family that the head coach has helped me out giving giving me a meal every once in a while and just all of those kinds of things.

And I think people discount just how hard it is to. Get to the point as a college coach where you can actually make some real money. And then to your point, it’s not a nine to five jobs, so you’re not, you’re not getting home every day at five o’clock you’re in the office, you’re up early, you’re at games, you’re on the road, whether you’re scouting or you’re traveling or you’re recruiting.

There’s just so much that goes into it. That I think, again, coaches who are in the business understand how difficult it is to continue to advance and work hard and do all the things that you need to do. And it’s just speaks to the passion that coaches have. And that coaching requires because if you don’t have that passion, man, that life can get can wear you down really, really fast.

[00:51:53] Rob Gardiner: Exactly. Yeah. You’re dead on, on passion and it’s it just, it’s the absolute fuel that you need to be successful in this business.

[00:52:04] Mike Klinzing: All right. So after your years at Ashland, you get a chance at Lincoln Memorial. Talk a little bit about how and why that came to be.

[00:52:12] Rob Gardiner: Yeah, so I was at Ashland for eight years.

Loved my time there, you know coach Ellwood great coach they’re second winds all time soon to be the all time winningest coach at Ashland. And but kind of felt like myself. I needed a change just personally more so professionally and just the opportunity presented itself or I got a call one day from, from Coach Shurtz down at Lincoln Memorial.

And he said he had an open assistant spot and he was looking for someone to kind of recruit the Midwest land and come in and kind of be as defensive coordinator. And so, and you know, obviously anyone who knows anything about college basketball knows Lincoln Memorial and Josh Shurtz is synonymous with, with winning consistency.

And then, so I did actually I thought long and hard about it just goes, I love the people at Ashland, but I was just an opportunity. I couldn’t pass out to be a part of a potential national championship team in Lincoln Memorial. And so, yeah, I was there for one year and learned so much from Coach Church.

He’s an unbelievable person and unbelievable coach and you know, he’s going on. And he’s now the head coach actually at Indiana state and coach Jeremiah, Samarepas is doing a phenomenal job there at Lincoln Memorial here in his first year as head coach there.

[00:53:27] Mike Klinzing: So after that one year, do you, are you, re-evaluating the lifestyle as a college basketball coach that causes you to jump over?

Are you just presented with an opportunity? That sounds like it’s too good to pass up. Just what’s the process for. Getting out of college coaching. What’s your, what’s your thinking there?

[00:53:47] Rob Gardiner: Yeah. And so that’s more the, the reasons for getting out of college coach and we’re kind of more personal as far as I was, I was engaged at the time.

And so I’m about to get married. My wife, she’s an unbelievable, she’s a college coach herself. And so she’s the associate head coach at Ashland University for the women’s team there. And so she’s, she’s unbelievable national assistant coach of the year. And so she’s an absolute stud.

And so I was just it, it did, it was tough with two coaches in a relationship. And so I knew I wanted to stay in basketball. And so NCSA was an opportunity that presented itself and it was. I mean just the opportunity to stay in basketball and the opportunity to continue as a mentor.

You know, that’s one thing I really enjoyed about coaching was the mentorship of it. As far as taking kids from 16, 17 years old, and then showing them how to become a better person, a better man, a better student. And then seeing that maturation from 16, 17, 18 year olds to 22 years old was something that I knew I wanted to be a part of my life.

And so the combination of basketball, fulfillment and mentorship, NCSA was just a perfect fit.

[00:55:02] Mike Klinzing: All right. So for people who aren’t familiar with NCSA, just give us the quick lowdown on exactly what you guys do, and then we’ll dive into specific. What you’re doing on a day-to-day basis to help athletes and families.

[00:55:17] Rob Gardiner: Yeah. So NCSA next college student athlete. And so what we are, we’re, we’re a recruit, a digital recruiting company to where we help kids all over the country, connect with college coaches. All right. And so, you know what that is, as far as we help kids connect with schools that they’re interested.

And then we help kids get exposure for for reasons that they, maybe they’re not able to, whether especially with COVID for the past two years a lot of college coaches weren’t allowed out to recruit. And so kids who don’t get enough exposure or just, aren’t very familiar with the recruiting process, we help you with the recruiting process.

And so me personally I’m a men’s basketball recruiting coach. And so I kind of take you behind the scenes into a college coach’s perspective, as far as you know, I’ve coached division one, I’ve coached division two, I’ve played division three. And so I’ve kind of seen that full spectrum of college basketball.

And so I not only helped kids with their skill development, as far as watching their film, evaluating them what are some of your strengths? What are some of your weaknesses? How do college coaches look at your film? All right. But then I also help them and have some of those tough conversations as far as well.

What level should I be looking at coach? You know, am I a division three player, my division one player, my division two player that’s a perspective that I can give them some guidance on as far as you should be looking at this level. And these are some schools that I think based off your academics, based off your basketball, based off kind of your region, your location, these are some schools that I think you should be looking at.

And then I ended up connecting them with college coaches

[00:56:53] Mike Klinzing: When a kid comes to you and they share film. And as we talked about earlier, oftentimes kids have an unrealistic expectation of where they can play or how recruitable. They are. So when you get a kids film in and you’re taking a look at it, and then you sit down and you have a conversation with them, and maybe you have an idea going into it, kind of what the kid thinks before you watch the film based on the conversation.

But when you have to have a difficult conversation with the kid who maybe thinks they’re a division one player, but you watch the film and you’re like, look, you can be a college basketball player, but you’re probably not going to be a division one player. How do you approach a conversation like that?

That can be. Uncomfortable in terms of sharing something, that’s the truth, but something that the player and their family may not be all that.

[00:57:45] Rob Gardiner: Oh yeah. And so part of that is my eight years experience as a division two coach as far as recruiting really helps me out here, just because, I mean, we would try and recruit kids that were kind of on that that D two division one board, or that wanted to go division one and would hold out to the last minute for division one.

And so, but it’s that same recruiting conversation with them as far as At the end of the day a spoonful of sugar kind of helps the medicine go down a little better when it comes to the conversations like that. But it’s like we talked about earlier, it’s finding the right fit school for you right now.

You know, are you looking to play, are you looking to compete for conference or, or potential national championships? You know what schools are showing attention to you? And so but it’s also about laying out a lot of options for student athletes right now. Hey, if you want to go division one, you can go division one, but your options are probably going to have to be.

All right. And here’s how we do that, you know? And so, but if you want to go and potentially earn a scholarship, Mike I think your best options to earn a scholarship are probably at the division two or NAIA level. All right. And then same thing with division three as far as I know you want to earn a scholarship, I know you do, but a division three offers phenomenal academic scholarships and need-based aid.

And so these schools right here, I mean, Otterbein, Ohio, Wesleyan, Worcester, there, they, these schools are showing you a lot of love and a lot of attention. They’re really good basketball programs. You know, I think you should really look at them right now. I know it might not be division one, but it’s an opportunity to play and to earn a great education and an education that’s going to set you up for the next 60 to 70 years of your life.

And so those aren’t easy conversations, Mike, and it’s, it’s very similar to recruiting, but it’s about laying options out. As far as once again, if you want to go division one, if you have your dead set on division two there there’s walk-on opportunities, there’s JV opportunities. And so there’s ways that we can make that happen, but what’s gonna make you most happy.

You know, are you going to be happy sitting on the end of the bench, not playing for the most part, most kids will say, no, I want to play coach. And so that’s kind of a good determination is okay if you want to play. I think these are the right fit schools for you from a playing perspective.

[01:00:00] Mike Klinzing: How do you as a college coach, a former college coach, and then in your current position, how do you weigh AAU basketball and a kid’s performance during the AAU season with a kid’s performance on their high school team? When it comes to. Them being recruited. How important is one versus the other? Just give us your thoughts from a, a college coach’s perspective.

So we’ve talked to different coaches and obviously they, most of them say that there’s Similarly, they look for different things depending upon the type of situation that the kids in. But just from your perspective, if you’re talking to a player, how do you get them to think about their AAU experience and their high school experience and how that relates to how they’re going to be?

[01:00:48] Rob Gardiner: To me they’re equally equally important. And you know, I mean, I know no one can like a high school team or an AAU experience better everyone has their personal preferences. To me, it’s about 50 50, just because it’s all about circumstances. You know, a lot of times when we go recruit kids during, Hey, you, you’re seeing them play against college level competition.

You know, as far as once again, you’re, you’re, you’re playing against and you’re on the floor with nine other guys that are looking to play college basketball, as opposed to. And how do you fit in, how do you stand out? How do you compete when you’re out there amongst 10, nine other guys that are looking to play in college basketball versus high school, which once again there’s big time, high school there’s different levels of high school, but for the most part.

Excuse me, that kid is going to be the best player on his team. And so it’s not exactly heliocentric James Harden where it’s all going to roll through him. But for the most part, he’s going to be able to show you some things and have more freedom and do more things on his high school team sometimes because he’s not around as as many good players.

And at the same token, that can go the other way. All right. Sometimes the high school team is extremely basic and conservative from a scheme perspective because the coach kind of has to dumb it down to the lowest common denominator versus the AAU program where, Hey, maybe he’s allowed to get out and transition more.

He’s allowed to do more things from a ball handling from a shooting perspective. And so it really is 50-50 because there’s so many different circumstances. And so I always tell kids and your coach that I play, Hey, you, should I not play? Hey, you play AAU. I mean, it’s now once again, you want to make sure you get on a team where you can play.

And the worst thing is to get seduced by like a Nike or Adidas or Nike or Reebok, a utopia of Reebok still has under armor sponsored AAU team and get some sweet shoes some nice jerseys, but you sit at the bench, right. You know, that’s. I mean I’ve offered kids scholarships or no.

I mean, my bosses have offered kids scholarships that have played on the most local Podunk, a few teams, but we see them out there playing it’s like, that’s you want to show coaches your repertoire. You want to show coaches what you can do. And so, Hey, you and high school, it’s about 50 50, just because every situation is going to be different.

You know, typically high school and AAU, they’re completely different. As far as the schemes, the, the how the games play. Typically high school is a much more slower conservative brand of basketball, at least in Ohio and versus AAU, which is much more up and down. And you’re playing with a lot more talent during the AUC.

[01:03:27] Mike Klinzing: If I’m a player and I want to get on a college coaches radar, let’s say I have a program or two I’m thinking, and I’m understanding the level that I want to play at. And I want to start to talk. A particular school or two, what’s the best way for an athlete to reach out to a member of that coaching staff?

Is it via email? Is it make it a phone call? Is it sending a highlight tapes? It’s sending a full game tape in your experience. What’s the best way for a player in their family to make that first contact. With a staff at a school that they might be interested in attending.

[01:04:04] Rob Gardiner: Yeah. And so it’s, it’s two things.

It’s emails and social media. And specifically when I say social media, I mean, Twitter, just because college coaches are on Twitter, 24 7. And so kind of that first contact, do you want to send an email that just kind of gives a quick maybe intro paragraph to who you are? And then you want to list your highlights, your stats and your GPA.

Those are the main things college coaches want to see kind of from that intro. You know, that first contact you’re talking about college coaches don’t want to read long 10 paragraph life stories in that in that, you know how much I love Michael Jordan as a kid. And you know, all these things in that first email you want to keep it short, sweet and to the point, and you might not get, you might get zero response from that first contact, but it’s just about getting your name in that college coaches head.

And then you want to be repetitive with that as far as continuing to send emails and direct messages on direct messages on Twitter. But then it’s about, okay, if you know these schools are in your region or you have no access to them going, like you talked about earlier, Mike, going to those games and getting an up close and personal feel and then trying to get to those colleges, elite camps almost every college has some sort of.

College prospect camps nowadays. And so if you can get to a college prospect camp, which once again, these are not invite only camps, they’re pretty much open. And so if you can register for those college prospect camps you want to do that to get on that college campus. Cause during those camps, you work with those college coaches.

And so that’s an opportunity to get up close and personal, and then you want to have your high school coach reach out to just because you want to get attack these college coaches from as many different angles as possible.

[01:05:48] Mike Klinzing: Talk a little bit about the importance of academics because let’s face it as parents.

And I think that I can speak for myself that if it wasn’t for my wife, keeping on top of my kids’ academics, I’d have a lot more work to do. And I tend to, I tend to focus on the athletic side of my kids’ experiences in school, but we all know that. Academics are critically important. So just talk a little bit about, you mentioned how that’s one of the things that you want to make sure that you put in your initial contact with the coach.

So just talk a little bit about how important that is and why players again, starting from ninth grade, where those grades become real and they stay with you. Why academics is such a critical part. Giving you more options and where you can be recruited,

[01:06:39] Rob Gardiner: oh, academics, your GPA are supremely important. And I’m telling you, I mean, the first thing as a college coach that I’m looking at is your highlights.

The very next thing is I’m looking at your GPA and I don’t want to speak for every college coach, but I’m pretty much, I’m just going to talk about kind of small college basketball division, two division, three, NAIA. That’s pretty much universal. They’re looking at your GPA as the very next thing.

Right. And a lot of that is it shows you how important it is is in scholarships. All right. And so division one the way they do their scholarships and we might this is, it’s just a full scholarship there’s no academic money. It’s just, you get a basketball scholarship now. At the division two division in AI level, those scholarships are stacked and packaged.

As far as you know, Mike, you might have a 3.5 GPA. And so maybe you get like a a half scholarship for the school academically. So then as a basketball coach, now you’re more of intriguing prospect to me because now I only have to offer you a half scholarship to get you to a full, as opposed to someone who’s got a 2.2 GPA and they don’t get any academic money for my school.

So now I have to offer them a full scholarship of athletic money. And so Those kids who have higher academics become more appealing prospects to small college coaches, specifically division two in AI, and then division three offers only academic scholarships. So the higher academics, your GPA, your act, your sat, the more academic money you’re going to get from those schools, which at the end of the day, I mean, when looking at colleges, you want to play at the highest level possible for the cheapest amount of money.

All right. And so academics not only play a huge role in just your future, as far as your education and all that stuff, but it pays, it plays a huge financial role in your future college.

[01:08:36] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. There’s no doubt about that. I think sometimes it’s something that when we think about the emphasis that we all put as parents, and all you gotta do is sit in the stands at an AAU tournament or sit in the stands at a high school game and realize and understand how much important.

We as parents place on our children’s athletic performance and yet so often, and I’m sure Jason can attest to this and I can attest to it as a teacher as well, that we don’t often see the same level of involvement and concern, unfortunately, on the academic side. And yet, as you said, it’s critically important, first of all, just for your future and obviously academics and where you’re going to go outside of basketball.

But then if you factor it into the basketball piece of it, man, just how many more opportunities you have if you’re a good student. And if you put the time in, in the classroom, it just wides the net that you can cast when you’re trying to look for and find a school. And I think people severely underestimate how critical.

[01:09:39] Rob Gardiner: Oh, absolutely. And so, I mean, academics, I mean basketball, again, you want to use it as a tool, as a way to get somewhere in life, but academics are the same way. I mean, if you really put time in for your grades standardized testing, I know is something that might be here, might not be here over the next couple of years, but still putting in the time and effort in those things.

It’s not just going, gonna make you a better person going forward, but then it’s, I mean, I can’t overemphasize enough how important and how valuable it is to college basketball coaches, division two, division three and NAIA. You are a much more appealing prospect. The better your grades are now at the end of the day, those coaches are still trying to win games.

They’re still gonna win, or they’re still gonna recruit the best possible players they can. But if it’s a tie it might give you and I are, are the same level of play. But I have a 2.0, and you have a 3.5 that college coach is probably going to recruit you because it’s going to cost him less to recruit you from scholarship money than it is to recruit and offer me if we’re the same level basketball player.

[01:10:43] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. That makes complete sense. When you think about being able to build relationships with college coaches there at NCSA, and obviously you have a background in coaching, and I’m sure that many of the people that work with you have those similar backgrounds, but just as you’re trying to build your network of college coaches and making connections, what does that look like from your end of it?

How much contact are you making with coaches outside of. You’re not necessarily sending them, Hey, I got a specific player that I’m trying to send to you or the, Hey, take a look at this kid, but you’re just building that kind of personal relationships so that when you do eventually have a player that you feel like would be a good fit for a coaches program, you’ve put that relationship in place.

So what does that piece of it look like for you?

[01:11:31] Rob Gardiner: You know, that goes to if you want to say networking relationships you don’t just want to get in touch with people. When you need something and that that’s a good mantra for life in general. And so you want to continue to nurture the harvest relationships just because that’s just the right thing to do.

And honestly, it’s fun for me, but I mean, we’re talking back we’re able to talk basketball how’s the season going what’s recruiting look like for next year it was just, what’s the state of college basketball, like, and so it’s, it’s great to check in with college coaches and just kind of get a rundown whether it’s what they’re looking for in a recruiting class this year, how the league is shaping up.

And so for someone like me, who’s been in college coaching, it’s just great to have, continue to have those conversations and just continue to make more friends for lack of a better term. And just because that’s one thing I’ve learned is over the years sometimes I could be my younger years of maybe a little quiet and just kind of focused tunnel vision.

And as far I just want to. Get better. I just want to win games. I just want to recruit and I don’t want to worry about talking to that guy over there at a recruiting event but it’s like the older I get, it’s more like, no I want to talk to as many people as possible.

And so that’s something that I think it’s just a good habit for people to get into in general.

[01:12:54] Mike Klinzing: That’s great advice. And it’s something that I think oftentimes we don’t realize that until we get older. I think when you’re in your early twenties, you kind of are just focused on yourself and what you need to do, what you can do, what you can achieve and the people sort of around you and your sphere.

You’re not necessarily looking at them and trying to build those relationships in the same way that you do when you get older and you start to realize, Hey, the value of those relationships, but just having that personal connection with people. I don’t think when, at least I know for me. When I was younger, I didn’t value that.

And if I look back on being a very young coach, there are a lot of things that if I had it to do over again, I would do differently. And certainly reaching out to people and building a network sooner, I think would have been something that would have helped me tremendously. Just as a person, forget about as a coach, forget about in my career.

I think it just would have helped me tremendously as a person to be able to grow and have people that I could learn from. And as you know, as your network grows, and especially as you get older, the people that are part of your network, get into places and positions where they are then able to help you.

And you’re able to help them as you grow and, and, and move in advance in your career. And I think that’s one of the things. Again, we just don’t. I don’t think you realize that when you’re young.

[01:14:23] Rob Gardiner: Oh, no. Yeah. And it’s just from my experience in coaching and just using this metaphor, it’s just or this example is Hey young coaches, when you’re at AAU events or you’re at, you know you know, anything don’t just sit there in the chair, by yourself, staring at the games, or I we’re all watching the games.

All right. And you know, and you’re not, you’re not figuring out some prospect that no one else sees talk like that’s just what I would do. I would just sit there and just focus in, like, I’m going to rediscover the wheel here, you know? And, and you know, but no, talk to the guys next to you, talk to the, the the coaches next to you.

And just once again, it’s not like you have to go out of your way to I’m going to talk to every single coach and shake every hand and you don’t have to be Yeah, over the top like that, but just talk to people that you said in your bubble, in your sphere, and like you said, it’s just having those relationships cause they’re your peers and you know, they’re going to go on and do things and you know, you just want to create those relationships.

And it’s like, I, look, I scroll back through my phone now and it’s just like, how many coaching friends do I have it, it’s unbelievable. How many people, I still stay in touch with. I still talk to on a daily basis. And it just, I’m so thankful for those relationships as I look back on it,

[01:15:36] Mike Klinzing: It’s been one of the things that’s been, I think the most satisfying for Jason and I as doing the podcast.

And it’s not something that I ever would have thought before we started, it was going to be a part of the podcast experience. And that’s just developing relationships with some of the people that we’ve been fortunate enough to have on the show. And it obviously doesn’t happen with every single guest, but we’ve had a number of guests we now consider to be friends. And you never would have guessed that, Hey, your show up for a podcast for an hour and 15 minutes, hour and 30 minutes, and then you develop this relationship. And through that, I’ve gone and been able to work at J bill as his camp. And Jason and I have been able to go and work at snow valley camp out in Iowa, coach show Walter.

And it’s like, those people knew us from talking for an hour and a half on this silly podcast. And it built these relationships that have given us great experiences and great friendships. And it’s really that ultimately again, it’s the people, right? It’s the people. That’s what it’s all about. Like in your position as a college coach, you’re trying to help the kids that you’re coaching.

You’re trying to build relationships with other coaches. Ultimately you’re using the game of basketball to try to improve people’s lives. Now you’re trying to win some games along the way and make better basketball players too. But ultimately you’re trying to impact people and impact their lives. And then you think.

What you’re doing now. I mean, what more, what could be more impactful than helping a kid make the right decision about where they’re going to go to school? Look, I’m going through. I got a senior right now. My daughter, she’s not a basketball player, stout athlete right now, but she’s a very good student and trying to figure out and help her to navigate the process of where she going to go to school at this point in her life and for the impact it’s going to have over the course of her life.

There’s really not many more important decisions that I can help her with. And you just think about that process of what you’re being able to do now and have that impact. It’s gotta be something that every day you gotta a. And I’m really making a difference for the kids and families that I get to serve.

[01:17:43] Rob Gardiner: Oh, no doubt. It’s extremely fulfilling and you know, that’s why I told my wife, I want to find something that is in basketball and it’s fulfilling, and this is fulfilling. Cause it’s it dives into, like, I talk about mentorship when you talk about Mike, as far as you helping kids.

Recruiting is tough and luckily I’ve been behind the curtain specifically with basketball. And so I’m able to use my experience as a player and a coach to help these kids and parents through the recruiting process, from everything from act sat, eligibility center to, okay, well, what AAU team should I play for?

Do I go to elite camps? How do I get in touch with college coaches? What level, you know? And so it’s not just basketball and it’s helping them through this entire college recruiting process, which is extremely difficult. You know, I look back on it and know I’m the oldest of three kids. And so it’s like my recruiting process when I love my parents, they’re my heroes, but they were clueless on it.

[01:18:39] Mike Klinzing: I know exactly trust me. I know exactly I was the same way.

[01:18:45] Rob Gardiner: I do find a lot of joy and fulfillment in helping these families out find the right fit or at least help them guide them in the right direction. And so it’s just something that I, and going back to, we said, as far as the biggest decision and you know, I’m going to steal something from my old boss at Ashland Ellenwood he said choosing your college is your first big decision in your life.

You know, there’s going to be bigger decisions as far as choosing who you decide to marry, that’s the biggest decision probably of your life. But your first big decision of your life is where you go into college. And I take extreme pride and joy in helping kids and families find that right fit school for them.

[01:19:25] Mike Klinzing: As long as the typical relationship that you have as you’re helping an athlete and their family, do you start the process with them? And I know it probably varies. You have people that jump in for short pieces of advice and you have people who have the longer term. A typical relationship that you would have where a family comes to you and says, Hey, we need help.

How long does that relationship typically take? What’s the timeframe.

[01:19:51] Rob Gardiner: Yeah. And so, I mean, the longest relationship for me right now is about eight months just because that’s, as long as I’ve been in the position it’s and so that’s, as long as I go, at least with NCSA right now, but I’d say generally you want to start your recruitment process around your mid to late sophomore year, you know?

And so college coaches division one in division two, aren’t able to really talk to kids until June 15th after their sophomore year. And so that kind of line of demarcation is kind of a good new, okay, this is when recruiting can start to pick up. And so a lot of kids will join NCSA as freshmen or sophomores and some juniors and even seniors.

All right. But I’d say on average, it’s around late sophomore. So starting your junior year. So you know about two to two and a half years.

[01:20:35] Mike Klinzing: Gotcha. And as you walk through and you take them through that process, what do you think is. The area that people are the least educated about when it comes to recruiting, where do you see the biggest knowledge gap when you talk to athletes and their families, when it comes to understanding the process of what it takes to be recruited.

[01:20:57] Rob Gardiner: Oh, it’s tough to pin down. Just one thing there. Mike, give me, give me your top three. And once again I was guilty of this as a, as a high schooler self-awareness to what level you are which once again, that’s, that’s not easy just because you don’t see division three games on TV, you don’t see division two games on TV.

And so your exposure to what’s possible, or what’s available to me is tough. And so I’d say awareness as far as level, but then even as far as how do I like you said, how do you get in touch with college coaches? And that’s something that is very foreign just because it’s like, well, do I just email them off there or do I just cold call their office?

You know, or how do I get in touch with them? How do I make sure that they know how good I am? And so it’s self-awareness as far as what level How do you get in touch and communicate with college coaches? And then the third part would probably be the academic slash application process.

As far as you know, we talk about how academics, sometimes at least in the basketball recruiting process, get underappreciated and undervalued how do you win and how do you take the act, sat, you know? And then is that even going to be valued over the next couple of years? Do you register, how do you register with the eligibility center and just what all goes into that process and then the admissions process, as far as just going through that complicated process.

And so you’re really helping kids and families figure out that academic piece and just how important that is. Like we were just talking about so I’d say those three main things.

[01:22:33] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. Good luck filling out the FAFSA by the way. Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. It’s like a disaster. I’m like, why do you need all this stuff?

You already got my tax return. It has every one of these pieces of information that you’re asking me to go in and find and sort through the whole document. And that was for any parent out there, whether your kid is an athlete or not to go through that process, it takes a long time and you better be well versed in your tax situation and be able to do it.

It’s crazy, honestly, like I, I mean, I knew it was involved from talking to other people, but having sat down and done it myself this year for the first time, I had no idea how involved it was. My daughter just got an email tonight that said it was a form from, I think it was from Lehigh. And the form said something to the effect of your information that you put on your CCS profile did not match the information that you put on your FAFSA.

And then it had like 15. Different categories that were all blank that were all blank. Like they had nothing. There was no, like, they didn’t give you the figures that weren’t accurate. And so they gave you two different boxes. You could check. One was, I was, I made an error and here’s the correct figures.

And the other one said it was accurate at the time that I submitted it. And we started to look and see, well, wait, but we can go back and check. And then we just said, no, it was accurate when we submitted it. We just, we just checked that box. Like we’re moving on from this,

[01:24:04] Rob Gardiner: The amount of conversations I’ve had over the years, not just with NCSA, but over the years, as a college coach of walking people through the steps with the FASFA.

Yes, it is an absolute,

[01:24:14] Mike Klinzing: yeah. You better definitely parents out there set aside some time for that, without question. Yes. All right, Rob. We are heading towards an hour and a half, so I want to wrap it up with one final two-part question. So, number one, when you look ahead, You think about what you’re doing now and why you went to NCSA and what you hope to accomplish there.

What’s your biggest challenge moving forward. And then number two, when you get out of bed every day, what brings you the most joy about your job?

[01:24:45] Rob Gardiner: All right. So the first part was biggest challenge. Correct. And so, I mean, biggest challenge is just continuing to find challenges, I guess, as far as when you, when you go through coaching, there’s always the next opponent there’s, there’s always a next recruit.

There’s always the, the next season, there’s always that and now that I’m, I don’t want to say. Business world, but I’m not in the coaching world anymore. And so you don’t have that next opponent, you don’t have that next true game and competition. And so finding challenges every day is something that I’ve enjoyed so far, but then looking forward I look forward to finding more challenges and I know, I mean, just talking with my manager and my bosses here at NCSA they, they’ve got a lot of things planned for me here.

And so just it’s, it’s finding that challenge in that just I’m a very competitive person. And so finding those kinds of things that are gonna continue to push me. And so I want to say my biggest challenge is finding challenges just because if I don’t have a challenge or an opponent or a motive or something like that like I’m a very competitive person.

And so that’s something that I look forward to. Is the right way to, I don’t know if there’s a right way to put it, but I look forward to finding new challenges

[01:26:03] Mike Klinzing: That takes us right back to the top of the conversation and Michael Jordan. Right. Always looking for challenges, look for slights, looking for something to motivate them.

I completely understand. All right, exactly. That answer makes complete sense. Your biggest joy?

[01:26:16] Rob Gardiner: Biggest joy is by far just, just being on the phone with families and just, or on the phone or seeing an email, it’s just coach, thanks for making a difference and, and you get that in coaching all the time to where am I really making a difference in these kids’ lives?

You know, am I really doing it? And then, Hey, maybe you get a text from a kid who you coach three years ago and it’s just, Hey, thanks, coach. Really pre-order you get a an email or a handwritten letter from a kid in those things just melt your heart and you know, those things really can propel you.

And so that’s something that I’ve really enjoyed is a couple of just great families that I’ve worked with that really helping them. And so really seeing them find the right fit school and right fit college has just been super fulfilling. And so that’s something that just know having that positive impact on a young man’s life and in family is something that really keeps me.

[01:27:12] Mike Klinzing: That’s good stuff. And I’m sure as you remain longer in that position, you help more kids to find that right fit. You’re going to get more of those emails, more of those texts from kids who have found the right place. Exactly. That they’re going to reach back out to you say, Hey, thanks. You, you helped me to make that first big decision on my life.

You helped to make it a good one. So again, Rob, we cannot thank you enough for being a part of the hoop heads podcast. Before we get out, I want to give you a chance to share how people can get in touch with you, how they can find more out about NCSA and just whether it’s social media website, email, whatever you feel comfortable sharing.

And then after you do that, I’ll jump back in and wrap things up

[01:27:50] Rob Gardiner: things up. Yeah. Hey, anyone tweet at me @CoachRob_G and I’m very active on Twitter. I’m working with actually slapping glass right now a little bit. And I don’t know if anyone listens to that podcast as well, but yeah.

Working with them a little bit, doing some videos with them. And so just love talking, hoops, love breaking down film. And so but yeah. Hit me up on Twitter at coach Rob underscore G. And so, yeah, we’d love to talk to anyone about whether it’s NCSA. You’ll find that next right fit college.

Anyone just wants to talk college basketball. We’ll just want to talk NBA I’m down for that too. All right. But yeah, @NCSA or ncsasports.org, once again, NCSA sports.org, right. As a way to get there. And once again, if you’re interested in NCSA, please hit me up on Twitter. All right. Or, Hey, here’s my cell phone number? (614) 370-1811 hit me up anytime about anything.

[01:28:48] Mike Klinzing: Great stuff Rob. I feel like. Learned a lot. And I’m sure that people out there in our audience have learned a lot, the impact, like we said, that you’ve been able to have in your career as a coach and now transferring that impact and doing it in a different way and still helping people to make good decisions, to help them to further their college basketball, aspirations, hopes, and dreams.

So thank you for that, Rob. We appreciate your time and to everyone out there. Thanks for listening. And we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.

ROB GARDINER – RECRUITING COACH AT NCSA – EPISODE 604

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