JOHN REYNOLDS – WANDO (SC) HIGH SCHOOL BOYS’ BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 1172

Website – https://johnreynoldsbasketball.com/

Email – coachjcreynolds@gmail.com

Twitter/X – @JohnReynoldsSr

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John Reynolds is entering his first season as the Boys’ Basketball Head Coach at Wando High School in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina.  He previously served as an assistant coach at his alma mater, The Citadel, from 2022 -2025 under his college coach Ed Conroy. 

Reynolds served on the staff at University of South Carolina from 2017-22, closing out his tenure as Special Assistant to head coach Frank Martin and overseeing on-campus recruiting. Prior to that he was an assistant coach at Presbyterian College for four seasons under longtime Blue Hose head coach Gregg Nibert. He served as interim head coach upon Nibert’s retirement in the spring of 2017. Reynolds started his coaching career in Mississippi at NCAA Division II Delta State for two seasons as an assistant coach.

Reynolds was a four-year letterwinner at The Citadel from 2007-11 as a member of one of the winningest classes in school history. The Bulldogs gathered 52 wins in that four-year span, including the program’s last 20-win season in 2008-09 while securing a postseason bid to the CollegeInsider.com Tournament. Reynolds was named Scout Team Player of the Year twice and was a three-time Southern Conference (SoCon) All-Academic Team selection.

On this episode Mike and John discuss the establishment of a culture of competitive excellence that encourages players to embrace challenges and strive for improvement. He recounts his formative years spent around sports, particularly basketball, influenced by his mother’s career as a coach and his family’s competitive spirit. This foundation shaped his aspirations to lead a basketball program, culminating in a return to South Carolina to build a winning program at Wando High School. Reynolds articulates his vision for the program, underpinned by a commitment to hard work and a shared passion for the sport. The conversation further explores Reynolds’s transition from college basketball to high school coaching, highlighting the unique challenges and rewards this shift entails. He reflects on the differences in player dynamics, noting the youthful nature of his team and the opportunity to mold them into a cohesive unit. Emphasizing the significance of creating an environment where players feel engaged and motivated, Reynolds discusses his strategies for fostering a love for the game among his athletes. He outlines his plans to implement a system that prioritizes skill development while simultaneously encouraging a competitive mindset, essential for achieving success on the court.  Ultimately, this episode encapsulates Reynolds’ determination to cultivate a thriving basketball culture at Wando High School.

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You’ll want to take some notes as you listen to this episode with John Reynolds, Boys’ Basketball Head Coach at Wando High School in the state of South Carolina. 

What We Discuss with John Reynolds

• His family’s deep involvement in basketball including his mother being a high school coach
• The transition from college to high school coaching presents unique challenges, including establishing a winning mentality among players
• The challenges and rewards of coaching at the high school level
• Building a successful basketball program requires patience, dedication, and a clear vision for development and growth over time
• Fostering a winning mindset in players
• Putting the focus on player development and teamwork
• The importance of community support in developing a successful basketball program
• Defining success through establishing an identity of competitive excellence among players and fostering a love for the game
• The significance of relationships built through basketball and how they positively impact both players and coaches
• Keys to establishing a solid foundation and work ethic in year one

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THANKS, JOHN REYNOLDS

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TRANSCRIPT FOR JOHN REYNOLDS – WANDO (SC) HIGH SCHOOL BOYS’ BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 1172

[00:00:00] Narrator: The Hoop Heads Podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball.

[00:00:16] John Reynolds: I’ve done everything there is to do in a basketball program other than lead the basketball program and going back to the blacktop in first grade, all I’ve ever wanted to do is lead the basketball program. This is a community where we want to be, and I get a chance to lead the basketball program and take on a challenge with people who are really supportive of that vision.

[00:00:42] Mike Klinzing: John Reynolds is entering his first season as the boy’s basketball head coach at Wado High School in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina. He previously served as an assistant coach at his alma mater, the Citadel from 2022 to 2025 under his college coach, ed Conroy. Reynolds served on the staff at the University of South Carolina from 2017 to 2022, closing out his tenure as a special assistant to head coach Frank Martin and overseeing on campus recruiting.

Prior to that, he was an assistant coach at Presbyterian College for four seasons. Under longtime blue hose head coach Greg Bert, he served as interim head coach upon Bert’s Retirement. In the spring of 2017, Reynolds started his coaching career in Mississippi at NCAA Division ii, Delta State for two seasons as an assistant coach, as a player.

John was a four year letter winner at the Citadel from 2007 to 2011. As a member of one of the winningest classes in school history, the Bulldogs gathered 52 wins in that four year span, including the program’s last 20 win season in 2008, 2009, while securing a post-season bid to the college insider.com tournament.

Reynolds was named Scout team player of the year twice and was a three time Southern Conference. All-academic team selection.

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You’ll want to take some notes as you listen to this episode with John Reynolds, boys basketball head coach at Wado High School in the state of South Carolina. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason sunk tonight. But I am pleased to welcome in John Reynolds, the boys basketball coach at Wado High School in the state of South Carolina.

John, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.

[00:03:48] John Reynolds: Thank you, Mike. Appreciate you, appreciate you having me today.

[00:03:51] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. Excited to have you on. Looking forward to diving into all the interesting things you’ve been able to do in your career. Let’s start by going back in time to when you were a kid. Tell me about some of your first experiences growing up with the game of basketball.

What made you fall in love with it?

[00:04:05] John Reynolds: Yeah, I’m really from going back as far as I can remember grew up in a, in a very sports centered house. My mom was a, a college basketball player at the University of South Carolina. And she was a girls high school basketball coach forever.  my father played all kinds of sports  himself and got into the ministry.

He was a, a Baptist preacher but also had two older brothers who were six and eight years older than me. So they were well on their way into, into sports and their own things by the time I came along and. Just kind of a a classic story of of following them along is the little brother I was  young enough to where they weren’t really beating up on me because there was an age gap.

They were kind of beating up on each other, but I was, I was always trying to play up with them.  and I think looking back how fortunate I was to kind of be exposed to that just playing with kids older than myself really all the time.

And very, very competitive house. We played whatever was in season. And  kind of interestingly those two older brothers, one ended up playing college baseball and the other ended up playing college football. And I went with basketball. So we were just kind of all over the spectrum.

We ended up with different passions, but.  kind of, kind of played those three sports growing up and enjoyed whatever was happening, but always kind of had a, had an extra little extra little passion for basketball. And  it was, it was, as my parents say, looking back, it was always harder to get me out of basketball season than anything else.

So  getting into high school once I got to the 10th grade I my family moved, which, which kind of changed things for me a little bit, changing high schools and decided just to focus on basketball and I wanted to put everything I could into it and see if I can make myself a college basketball player.

And so maybe maybe not the wisest decision for a a five 11 white guy,  who’s also left-handed. I don’t, some maybe I could have been a middle, middle reliever or, or something, but but no, it’s  I’ve always had just a. A tremendous amount of passion to compete. Was blessed to grow up around the game and,  be exposed to some really good coaches and  ultimately was able to, to accomplish that through, through Ed Conroy at the Citadel recruited me, offered, offered me a roster spot, and that’s all I needed.

That was a dream come true for me to, to be able to play Division one basketball. So  I come by it pretty honestly. It’s really for the most part, all I’ve all I’ve ever known.

[00:06:34] Mike Klinzing: When you started to focus on basketball as a 10th grader, what did that look like for you in terms of trying to become a better player?

How much of it was you in the gym by yourself? How much of it was pickup basketball? How much of it was your a a u experience? Just what did it look like for you once you decided I wanted to focus on hoops?

[00:06:56] John Reynolds: Yeah, I mean, nothing, what it looks like now for a 10th grader that decides, decides that for Sue it’s so different.

And one of the things about coaching is you come to realize how bad of a player you really were, I think and the things that you wish you had done differently are the things you wish you would’ve known that you need to just spend more time on. I grew up in Columbia, South Carolina  pretty, pretty good basketball culture there when I grew up.

Just, just as far as grassroots go and everything. And then my family and I moved, we moved out to Hattiesburg, Mississippi. My dad took a job out there and  good athletes, some good players, but basketball was really, really an afterthought there. I mean, football was huge. Baseball really, really big, really, really strong.

The high school I was at and basketball was just something that filled that the time in those winter months we needed to play indoors for, for a little while. And so didn’t have the resources.  as much now with, of course, my mom being a coach and being exposed to different coaches and going to camps and all that kind of stuff I had a pretty good base, but I really didn’t have those figures in the community.

 that were really basketball people to, to drive development and some of the resources that kids these days have and that I hope that they have in my community now. Those didn’t really exist. And then a, a u  I sound like, I’m, like, I’m old, I’m 37 years old, so this is  early mid two thousands.

I mean, even then a, a u was like, I think there was maybe a couple teams in the state and it was. If you weren’t a top top player in the state and weren’t getting invited to play on one of those teams out of Jackson, right. On New Orleans or Gulfport or wherever it was you didn’t play until the next year came around.

And that didn’t really hit me until I got to college and talked to other guys and were around guys that were on those big a u teams and that traveled and went to Vegas and played against each other and were I’m, I’m, I’m thinking I get in the locker room and I’m like, how do these guys, they all like, know each other?

 they’ve all, they played against each other and they, one’s from Miami and one’s from Texas. And  I just wasn’t really exposed to that. And so  I just, I just did what I knew, which was just go to the gym.  I we had a church down the street that had open access, had a big gym.

I was in there every day that I could, every day that I couldn’t get into the high school gym. And I really just had to, had to come up with the workouts and do it myself, . And then eventually later in the afternoon, the day when the older men would show up and people would put have their pickup games I’d, I’d play all night and that’s one thing I just, I did just stay in the gym.

I didn’t necessarily know what I was doing. I probably didn’t have the best guidance in the world. But I’d spend four or five hours in that gym every, every afternoon in the night until it’s time to go home.

[00:09:48] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. It’s interesting, I think guys from your era and older, and I’m 55, and so my experience, I think was probably somewhat similar to yours in that.

I went and did my workouts and whatever. Nowadays you look at the resources that kids have to be able to come up with different drills, different ways of improving your game. And I always say I had two workouts. I had one I did by myself, and then I had one if I was lucky enough to maybe have somebody that wanted to shoot with me or play one-on-one.

Something that I would do with, yeah, with a partner. And I probably got really, really good at those workouts, but I’m not sure. At a certain point, I think I probably plateaued in what I was getting out of that one workout that I was doing all the time without a whole lot of variance. And I look back on, I’m like, man, I really was grinding at that one, that one workout.

It would’ve been nice to have some of the newfangled things that everybody has access to now, just to mix it up and to do something a little bit different. Yeah, it would just like you.

[00:10:43] John Reynolds: Ha having to chase that ball around will make you a better shooter. Right. That’s

[00:10:47] Mike Klinzing: for sure. Yeah. There’s no doubt about that.

When, when it’s not, when it’s not the doctor dish, the gun, that’s right.  that’s rebounded for you. Yeah. You definitely, and it gets you in shape, right. You have to be, you better chase the ball if you want to be efficient and try to get shots up. Yeah.

[00:10:59] John Reynolds: You’re, you’re going to be a really good shooter or you’re going to be in really good shape.

Yeah.

[00:11:04] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. Hopefully, hopefully a little bit of, hopefully a little bit of both, but yeah, it’s just, I mean, it’s definitely, it definitely was a different, definitely was a different era when it, when it comes to just, again, the way that you prepared yourself and the way you tried to go about improving and becoming a better player.

What influenced did your mom as a high school basketball coach have on you, as a player and your development when you think back to her influence?

[00:11:27] John Reynolds: Yeah.  it’s always things as you get older, you don’t realize how you’re being influenced at the time. Right. You have no idea. It’s your, it’s your little pocket of the world.

It’s all,   and I think, and even, even for my dad, I think just being in a house. Two people in professions where they were charged with leading and teaching people it’s what they did  in different forms and very, very competitive, both of them and what they did.

And there was just an expectation  third child age gap the, the house is already kind of set, right? It’s, it’s rolling, right? You just have to kind of fall in line with it and try to catch up. And not even realizing, like just the standard that was around me every single day of you, you go to work, you work hard, you give your very best effort, you are the standard for.

For character, for integrity. You’re, you are the example. It’s your job to lead people. It’s your job to bring people along with you. I can’t say that at any point those things were really ever even said to me. It was just the way that it was, ? And it’s the way my brothers acted. And I got a little sister, I should mention that she get mad with me about not about not mentioning her.

But, but it’s the environment that, that I grew up in. And now looking back like how blessed I was. And you, and you you get older and  you see the people came from all kinds of different backgrounds and maybe weren’t blessed to, to have that sort of structure in their house or, or those role models to look to.

But, but  I think the main thing is, really from my mom was just the competitiveness,  fiercely, fiercely competitive  sweetest woman in the world off of it. And obviously I have to see the mother side, but I mean, she was all business on the court and she had a, she had a stare that could, that could pierce, right?

And  she, she could hide it well at times. But, but I knew just from being around her in practices and watching the games always prepared always had an answer for, for whatever was, was thrown at them in that game. And just had a great love and passion for the game.

 and my family moved around a little bit. She took all kinds of different jobs. It felt like every time she would, she would take a rebuilding job, she would get ’em playing really well, and then something would happen. We would move or.  I’d go off to college and she’d step away for a year or two to do that, and she’d take over a new spot and start all over and attack it with the same, the same amount of enthusiasm.

And so I think, I think that part is just it’s in my DNA to, to want to, to want to lead people, to want to impact people. A passion for the game and a competitiveness that, that frankly it needs an outlet, right? You have to, you have to put it somewhere. And I mean, basketball is kind of the chosen route there.

[00:14:27] Mike Klinzing: Do you think that growing up, watching your mom coach and all the things that you just described, did  early on that you wanted to coach at some point? Or were you one of those guys that was kind of focused on being the best player that you could be? And then as you sort of saw your playing career winding down, that’s when you turned to coaching, which, which one of those paths better describes you?

[00:14:51] John Reynolds: Yeah, I mean, I, I never thought about doing anything other than being around the game. I really didn’t.  you’re, when you’re young, you’re delusional and everything, and you think you’ll play forever. Sure. But, but no, I always, I always kind of knew or thought that I would coach,  had an interest at certain points in administration or, or I did a front office internship with a minor league team and maybe getting involved.

But I, my passion is for the players and being in the heat of battle. That’s what I love. And yeah, I can remember, I have a, my son now is seven years old. He’s in the first grade. The genes are strong. I mean, he is full speed ahead into everything, but it took me back and I remember, I don’t you, you remember kinda random things from childhood.

Just, just random snippets. And I remember being his age, first grade on the playground, and I just remember being disgusted with the kids just running around on the court and the disorganization and like, this is a mess. And I remember picking teams and making teams and literally drawing up plays in the sand and like, guys, like, we have to get it together.

Like, this is, this is awful.  you got somebody kicking a soccer ball through the court and girls are doing cartwheels, and it’s like, no, we’re having a game. ? And I think during that year, in first or second grade, I think I organized a full league that had standings and everything. Like, no, if we’re going to play, we’re going to play.

And so some people call that OCD or, or have other maybe a more derogatory term for it. But, but I mean really from, from birth loved being a part of a team, wanted to compete and I don’t know, just kind of took to took it on myself to, to organize and try to get the group moving in a, in a certain direction.

[00:16:39] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, it’s really interesting to me always to hear guys like you that sort of have that, even if you couldn’t maybe have expressed it when you were 8, 9, 10 years old, that, hey, I want to be a coach. But certainly those tendencies of wanting to organize and wanting to draw up plays and kind of wanting to be in that leadership role, I think that’s clearly a common path for people to get to coaching.

And I think when you do that, especially when you have a coach in your family, right? ’cause you’ve seen kind of the life of. What a coach looks like. You’ve gotten a chance to be in the gym and be around practice and see that death stare that your mom has and all those things that kind of go along with Right.

Just being a coach and what that life is like. And so I do think that that has a huge influence when you start talking about wanting to be around the game for the rest of your life and kind of do what someone else has done for you. Let’s go back to your decision to go to the Citadel and play for Ed Conroy and what the recruiting process was like for you.

For anybody who doesn’t know much about the Citadel and being a military school, and obviously that’s a decision that clearly there’s an extra layer of discipline and commitment that has to be made in order to go and play at the Citadel compared to just going to your normal everyday school. So just talk about your decision Yeah.

Making process and, and why you ended up choosing the Cita.

[00:18:06] John Reynolds: Yeah wasn’t, definitely, wasn’t highly recruited or anything like that.  wanted to play, wanted to play in college, couldn’t see myself just not playing after college. And so kind of talked about the pocket of the world I was in wasn’t, wasn’t exactly a hotbed for recruiting either.

So  I think I was all conference, I think I was something Allstate down there in, in South Mississippi. But  sent out, sent out the DVDs which is, is what we did back then. And to every, I think every cool in the SoCon for sure. ’cause I knew I wanted all my families from South Carolina I thought I want to go back that way to play.

But  anybody I could think of sent a bunch of films out and I was recruited lightly, division two, division three had some division Threes really recruited me hard. Some junior colleges, a lot of junior college ball there in, in Mississippi, Alabama. But I was a, I was a naive kid I turned my nose up at most, at most of ’em.

I I don’t really want to do that. And I think there were there were two schools in the SoCon that got back to me, UNCG, I think that I think was some token, some token mail there. It didn’t have a whole lot of correspondence. And then so going, finishing up my senior year of high school spring Hill College had worn me down on a visit down in mobile.

And so was in the car with my dad was going to go down there and play in front of the coaches. Hey we want to decide if we want to offer you we think, we think we might want to offer some JUCO kids, but  we like your film, blah, blah, blah. Come down, play, visit campus. So we’re on the way down there.

And I’ll never forget on the way down I get a call that. I’m not expecting. It’s from Ed Con. Hey, this is Ed Conroy at The Citadel.  had done some, his, one of his assistants at the time, Andy Fox who’s now an assistant at George Mason’s, been at, been at Vanderbilt Army all over the place.

Really, really close friend of mine. And he had kind of done the legwork and had some email correspondence with me and everything and they were trying to build a program there. And I’ve got family I didn’t miss, my two older brothers went there. A lot of family connections to the place.

Charleston’s obviously a wonderful, had a ton of respect for it. And his division one said, Hey kind of, kind of like your like your background, like the intangibles. He was trying to build a program, get it off the ground and what he wanted to do and what he did was, was very intentional about recruiting those borderline and borderline probably be generous for me, but borderline players who maybe weren’t a scholarship guy at division one level, but but were the right fit and and could help you.

And so he ended up offering me a roster spot. I finished the visit to Spring Hill. I probably went down there and played. My dad laughs to this day. He is like, it’s the best I’ve ever seen you play. ’cause I knew I wasn’t going there. I, I mean, I didn’t miss And they called me and said, well we’ll, we’ll get back to you.

We still think maybe you want to sign this JUCO kid. I’m like, I just torched your team. Like I played out of my mind, . And if you don’t want to offer me, like whatever, I’m not going there. Anyway all I needed to hear from, from from the Citadel was they were offering me a spot on the team is just gimme a chance, ?

And  everything he told me. And one of the things that he really hit on in that initial conversation was kind of, I had heard maybe you want to coach. I said, yes, yeah.  I think, I think I want to get into coach. He said, well, you need to come to Citadel, you need to get that diploma, get that degree, wear that ring, have that on your resume division one basketball player C graduate, and we’ll do anything we can to help you  prepare for your career while you’re still in school, and then help you afterwards. And I can say this from that, from that conversation when I was 18 years old riding in the car to, to go visit A-N-A-I-A school or, or whatever they are.

 all of that has been true to this point. Even to in the last few years I was working for ’em back at the Citadel for a second time. And so yeah, it was and then, and then in choosing it still difficult, right? Even, even though I kind of knew that’s what I wanted to do.

I always draw back on my own experience when I was recruiting players at the college level. And you think, man, why had these kids, like, why is it it takes ’em so long to decide and they wanted this? And you think back to yourself I waited until the last minute. ’cause you’re always thinking maybe something pops up, right?

But  from that point on when I said, Hey, I’m, I’m coming I appreciate the, appreciate the offer.  I’m in.  it’s I never really flinched at the other stuff as far as the military stuff goes. I had family that had done it. And I think a little bit of like the coaching sickness bug that we have, there’s, there’s a little bit of that in it too, to where I wasn’t sure I wanted just a normal college experience.

 I felt like that was for me. Like I wanted more. I can do more with my time. I don’t need to just go to school and play basketball. Like, I can push myself, ? I can, I can maybe, maybe handle more than other people want to I want to, I want to see what I can do. And and so a little, maybe a little bit off that way.

But but I appreciated what it offered. I appreciated the challenge  the discipline that it instills. I appreciated the, the difficulties the adversity. It’s it’s something I think what the Citadel does more than, more than anything, it prepares you for hard, it prepares you for real world challenges just earlier than other people get exposed to in different forms.

Right. But, but college for a lot of people, maybe not athletes ’cause it’s hard being a college athlete I don’t, I don’t I don’t take that lightly at all to, to commit yourself to something. But you’re just, you’re familiarizing yourself with, with uncomfortability at an earlier age, right?

And so the things don’t get easier for you. You just get more used to dealing with them and you how to push through. And so I appreciated the part of it. And and it doesn’t, it didn’t hurt that I really did have a lot of familiarity with the school because I think going back and being an assistant there and having to recruit there, the mystery of it is more off putting than anything for people.

They just don’t know, right? You just, what am I doing? What am I getting myself into? What does this, why would I do that?  what does it mean? And so I, those questions and the types of people that it had produced, I had already seen those outcomes, right? And I knew what it could do for people especially people that want to stay in this region or the state.

And I had already seen firsthand away. That that being an athlete there and having that degree could, could set you up. And and so  I jumped in and never looked back and it, it was it was the right thing for me.

[00:25:00] Mike Klinzing: What’s one thing you told recruits while you were working at the Citadel about, hey, this is what the experience is like, if you had to sum it up in a sentence, a paragraph of this is how it’s going to be different from what the quote unquote normal college experience would be like, how would you describe that?

[00:25:16] John Reynolds: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think a lot of it  it goes back to these are values that you need to have anyway, if you’re going to be successful and they’re just going to get reinforced.  do you have freedom at all times to, to roam about Charleston? No, like during the week, you’re relatively locked down to campus.

But if you want to be successful in your time here and you want to be successful in life, what do you need to be doing on a Tuesday night anyway? Right? Like, you need to either be in the gym or you need to be studying and you need to turn the light out at a decent time and you need to wake up early.  I think for us the, the appeal to it was we felt like we could get more out of our 24 hours than anywhere else in the country.

 our guys are mostly going to be done with class by 12. It’s a close campus. We move quickly, we move efficiently, we just get more done, and therefore we feel like we can develop you at a faster rate than anywhere. But then the other thing for a lot of kids and most kids that you recruit, you, you get a few that are like, I want to do it.

Like, I crave, ? Right. Discipline and hardship. I want to push myself to limit, maximize my potential. Like, great those are easy. Most people don’t, most people don’t get it. But  you talked about earlier, drawing back on your experiences as a player, which I think is, is so important.

I was part of the winningest, I believe winningest class or winningest few years. School history there. We had a fantastic group. And it was just the right, it was the perfect storm of the right staff, the right, the right kids, the right demeanors, the right skill sets.  it just came together.

It was the type of group that could be successful there. And so being hired back as a coach, like, well, how, how did we do that? Right? Like, obviously Ed knows he, he was the architect of it. But, but why were our players? Why were we the way that we were? And when I thought about our locker room, it was, it was a bunch of dudes who just loved ball.

Like, period. They were just hoop heads, right? Like we were just a bunch of guys that just loved basketball and loved to compete. And from the recruiting standpoint.  I thought all of that other stuff that the military stuff, e even school being away from home, whatever it is, I, what I thought in reflecting on my time there and what I told recruits and even our players, if you love basketball, none of that other stuff will, will bother you.

If you’re here because of basketball and you’re here because you think these are the right people and the right team, the right coaches, the right system to get you where you want to go you’re going to love it and you’re going to thrive.  ’cause this place is about putting in the work and getting better.

Now if you’re about other things and other things are more important to you, or  way more heavily, which there’s nothing wrong with that. If you’re, if being more social is more important to you or whatever, whatever kind of interest, well, then those other things start to weigh on you a little bit.

But our thing was we wanted to create an en an environment where  we were developing kids there was a passion for development. They could see the results and  it was almost like a, like a, just a little basketball fortress in there, right? And and I think that can be true in a lot of places.

But when I look back on those characteristics, like, did we have a whole bunch of kids? I don’t, I didn’t have anybody I played with that went into the military and served afterwards, right? And they weren’t poor cadets either. But they didn’t know what they were getting into. And but that was the one thing that united us.

And  I think it was  you have an escape in the gym and if that’s where you want to be and if that’s truly what your passion is. Hey, what, what better place? ’cause ’cause there’s a lot of days you don’t want to be in those barracks. You’d rather be in the gym and if if being in the gym doesn’t excite you, I’d imagine it might get pretty gloomy, but but yeah, I mean that was, and it’s funny some of the kids we recruited and going back and revisit ’em with them after they’ve been there it’s I think that still kind of holds true.

 that was my theory going into it being an assistant there for the first time. But I think the kids that really have a passion for the game  those, those sort of traits carry over and they’re able to navigate it just fine.

[00:29:30] Mike Klinzing: It makes sense. I think, again, when you, when you start to look at the whole picture, right?

I, I would guess that most kids, when they come down to making that decision, even if they’re not a hundred percent sure that that’s the environment that they want, they have to be at least intrigued by the environment in order to be able to make that decision. I’ve had conversations with guys who have.

 coached or, or been around like the service academies too. And it’s kind of the same thing. I’m always like, I’m, I’m always amazed by the maturity of somebody who chooses to put themself in that kind of disciplined environment, right? Yeah. ’cause you think about a, where a lot of us are at age 18, not everybody, that that environment isn’t for everybody, and especially not people who are intentionally seeking that out.

And I think that it, it tends to attract the kind of people who, again, even if they’re not a hundred percent in of, man, I know for sure this is what I want. Mm-hmm. There’s still something about it in their, in their makeup as a human being that. Is, is attracting them to that, even to consider it at all.

Right? I think it

[00:30:35] John Reynolds: now it’s, we talked about, we talked about high, high achieving individuals, right? It’s campus full of high achieving individuals and their, their interest in their past can go a number of different ways, right? Only 30 a little over 30% of graduates there go into the military and serve.

So you got this 70%, like, why are we there? Well, we’re on some sort of path where we’re trying to separate ourselves and we’re trying to do something great, right? And  and not a campus where you’re, you’re getting back in the bed at three o’clock in the afternoon and taking a nap that campus is alive, people are moving because everybody there is there to do something, right?

We’re not, we didn’t choose this to get nothing out of it, right? And so again sometimes our form is basketball, but. We’ve had successful engineers, lawyers, you name it, right? Agents all kinds of, all kinds of different professions have come through there. But that’s that really the the common thread.

A little, little extra drive. Maybe, maybe a little bit more maturity, although a locker room’s, a locker room, but  just maybe, maybe people that have that extra itch to, to really go do something.

[00:31:42] Mike Klinzing: Alright, so go back to your time there. Are you having conversations throughout your four year career with Coach Conroy about the basketball coaching side of it and what that’s going to look like when your four years are done and you’re graduating, and then when you get to the point where you’re ready for that first job search, what does that look like?

So, kind of talk about the conversations that led up to that, that first job search when you get done.

[00:32:08] John Reynolds: Yeah, we didn’t wait. I was, I was coaching while I was playing as my teammates like to, like to nag on me about  we had a really, really close group and I played, I came in at the same time as really the two of the best guards, the best guard and another top, whatever you want to rank ’em in school history.

I had three, the three guard spots for three, four year starters, all in all in my class. So maybe a terrible time to come in ’cause those guys are really good. But no, coach gave me a lot of responsibility  even as a freshman and then, and then definitely moving in in the subsequent years.

 I really got to where I ran our scout team and I really. I ran it.  I got, we got with the assistance, but, but we were running the other team stuff better at times than, than, than they were. And then gave me some, I’d have some scouting responsibilities even during the game as a player.

 I think one year it was the opposing team’s bigs personnel, Hey, like, this is what you’re watching in timeouts, whatever if you need to put something in somebody’s ear, you notice something tell us play calls any of that. So they really helped me in that way, really start thinking as a coach and  which was tremendous for me at the time.

And then even before then, hey, let’s  season’s over. Summers were different then than they are now. Now you keep the kids all summer basically. We were even a little bit ahead of the curve back then for our level. I mean, we were there, I can’t remember exactly, but we’d be there for about a month.

 maybe it was June that we had guys down for workouts. But back then it was pickup and lifting weights. You weren’t allowed to do any organized activities on the court. But  then it was sitting down, Hey, let’s see what the summer looks like.  these are the camps you need to go work.

These are the contacts you need to make these are the right areas. So, I mean, even going back now, I mean, just a couple of those summers, Hey, you need to go work coach Wootens camp up at Frostburg. And I did that three summers in a row in college. And I mean, that’s something that’s. That’s still paying me back.

 some of the, some of the coaches I met, of course,  coach Wooten, the original coach Wooten up there and getting to know Joe and  that whole crew and they’d have all the D two and D three coaches and high school coaches from the area.  things like that going to work.

Five stars. So ed and guys like Andy Fox and Doug Novak and those guys, those guys helped get my foot in the door. And  really maybe, maybe things that, I don’t know if I got a job immediately out of any of those things. But  certainly as you continue down.

 you, you call a recruit and you go, oh I worked with your coach at camp 15 years ago. And they were, they were kind of strategically helping put me in those places where the, this is where you need to be. And and so I didn’t know my mom was a high school coach.

I didn’t know anything about you.  getting into college coaching, I just knew that’s what I wanted to do. And to kind of backtrack, really made up my mind  my freshman year. Like, I love this, like I love this level. I love the attention to detail, I love the passion, I love the arenas.

I love the seriousness of it. Like, like this is it, ? So it made up my mind that point, like, I college basketball is where I want to be. And so yeah, so actually, i, my senior year graduated, I played my last year for Chuck Driesell, so we were too good at the Citadel. We had Ed ended up taking the job at Tulane from there.

And  did, did the whole thing, man. Did the whole search and trying to get GA spots and trying to get on different places. If I remember, I maybe talked to, to Ed and those guys about a spot at Tulane. But ended up taking a job down at Delta State University as a grad assistant. I think I maybe had one or two others, south Alabama, something like that.

But just after talking with people it was like, look, you, you go to division two, you can get your feet wet in recruiting. You can coach on the floor,  you’re not just a, a glorified ga they’re counting on you to work. And  decided that was maybe the best path to, to just go ahead and start working get my graduate degree and, .

Get in gyms and get on the road and recruit and get on the floor and coach. And that was all good. Until  into my first year the head coach got fired. So welcome, welcome to the profession, right? You’re

[00:36:25] Mike Klinzing: right there. Here it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:36:28] John Reynolds: One year. Why not? Let’s go ahead and get right to it.

But then probably one of the best, best things that happened to me from then they, they had to hire a guy and I had no guarantees. I had a job, I think that year, the final four was in New Orleans and Ed and those guys were at Tulane. I think I spent like two weeks down in New Orleans ’cause I was like, I don’t know if I got anything to go back to.

 I just, I’ll just hang out with you guys down here at Tulane. But Delta State ended up hiring hiring Jim Boone. It was a long time, really, really successful Division two coach.  I’ve been Eastern Michigan. Robert Morris, division one, he is kind of known now as Pac Line and Motion Offense Guru.

And he was just tremendous for a young coach to work for. Just incredibly organized, just a pros pro, right? Knew what he wanted to do, had his system. And probably one of the best teachers of teachers that I’ve been around, right?  taught me things that I had never even thought about,  just being efficient with language and being able to command a room and command a group and not talk too much, but get your point across and all of those things.

And so  that was my first lesson and sometimes coaches getting fired. It’s not a bad thing, right?  some good stuff can come out of it. And so, luckily for me Jim kept me on and  it was just, just awesome, just crash course into college coaching to be able to work for him for a year and  really prepared me for for moving on and becoming a, a full-time assistant.

[00:38:01] Mike Klinzing: Was there anything that surprised you when you first got the job about being a college coach? Or did you feel like your experience at The Citadel kind of prepared you and clearly, again, you grew up in a co, in a, in a coaching household, but was there anything that you kind of were like, oh man, I didn’t realize that this was a part of the job, or, I didn’t realize this was as big a part of the job?

 when you got that first experience?

[00:38:25] John Reynolds: Yeah, I wouldn’t say that part because I loved it. I loved the work. I was like, my my job is to coach basketball and recruit that’s. Okay. That’s what i’s a good deal to do, ? Yeah. It’s a pretty good deal. I’ll take it.  not as much that side of it.

I think just being on the other side  dealing with a different team and dealing with different players and realizing they don’t have the same they don’t take the same way you do.  you have to learn them, and the locker rooms aren’t the same. I talked about Mike, I had a I was in a bubble.

I, I had a tremendous group at the Citadel. Like we were, we had eight, eight in our graduating class on the basketball team. And it was just a very tight group. And I said it before that loved basketball and just wanted to be in the gym and wanted to be around each other, and just like, that’s all we knew, ?

And then you go to a new place and  the kids are in the gym and practice ends and they all go back to their dorms and it’s like. That was foreign to me. ? I thought we all wanted to hang out together. I thought we were going to be in the gym all night, ? And so I think that was my kind first experience is like, no, every, every kid you coach is not going to, in fact, hardly any of them are going to be just like you.

Right.  or, or cut from the same cloth like, like my group was. And  I think probably early on  I probably struggled to, to reach ’em, like struggled to, to get through to ’em. ’cause I couldn’t relate to ’em.  I, I couldn’t relate to somebody not wanting to work as hard as, as I did, or my teammates did.

And so  and then, and then going back and looking for those things and knowing, okay, now as a head coach or, or as an assistant that’s out there recruiting, what types of kids do I want to coach? Who, who are my type of players? Who gels with me? Who do I get through to? And so that was, that was probably more the interpersonal part of it.

Not so much  leading a drill or leading a scout or, or being prepared or, or any of that. But  getting to know that you’re going to have a team of 15 guys and they’re all going to be different and and, but it’s your job to get through to, to each and every one of them.

[00:40:35] Mike Klinzing: That’s a great point.

I know that’s something that when I think back to the start of my coaching career, that was something that I really struggled with, was trying to figure out, hey, these guys aren’t wired the same way that I was wired. Not every guy is going hard every single day in practice, just because. That’s what they’re supposed to do or that’s what they want to do, or they want to get better there.

There might have had to be some some motivation from the coach to be able to get them to where they needed to go. And you had to, as you said, figure out what makes different guys tick. And it took me a while to be able to figure that out. And I don’t know if accept is the right word, but just realize that you have to kind of meet guys where they are to get the most out of them.

And sometimes when you expect every single player to be wired in the same way you way you were, especially if again, if you were competitive and you were a hard worker and you’re all the things like you’re describing, not every kid, as you said, is going to be that type of kid. And so you still have to figure out how can I get to that player and give them everything that I have and make them into the best player that they can possibly be and get them to to reach their potential to help our team.

And I think that’s not always, again, it’s not always easy to do. I think it’s an insightful way to, to look at it and think about it earlier in your career, because I think a lot of players struggle with that, especially if you’ve. Had success on the court. And if you’re, if you’re wired in a certain way, you, you kind of walk into coaching and think, man, every, it’s going to be easy to coach guys like me.

And it probably is, right? If, if you have a kid that you think that you see yourself in that kid, you’re like, oh man, I get, I get what this, I get what this kid’s about. It’s easy for me to coach him. Right? It’s the kid who’s maybe the polar opposite of you that again, brings certain strengths to the table, but just has to be, has to be reached in a different way.

And I think that’s again, it’s a really interesting, it’s a really interesting thing that I think a lot of coaches who are players go through is trying to, trying to figure out and find out, Hey, how can I get to, how can I get to these guys and get the most out of it, even though they’re not wired exactly the way that, exactly the way that I’m wired.

So after the experience at Delta State, and tell me how you get to Presbyterian.

[00:42:44] John Reynolds: It was it was interesting I’m finishing up, so it’s year two of like not having a job in the off season because  my, my GA thing was up and  was, was hoping to get a full-time assistant spot.

But those, those times are never really fun. But, but my experience has always been and things like that.  it’s sometimes it can, it can feel like, man, like, what, what am I going to do? ? It’s, I, I’ve been there a few times and then, and then it just comes in wave.

So I think I was sitting around with nothing making calls and Jim was working for me and trying to get me on certain places. And then within a span of I think three days, I had the Presbyterian thing came open. I was ed had a spot on his staff, I think off the court, came open.

Then went and actually interviewed with, with Josh Shirtz up at LMU back when he was there, which were three really good opportunities. But just through some, some mutual, mutual contacts. And it was actually Brooke Savage was working at was working at Presbyterian, another camp thing.

I’ve actually never thought about that until I started talking to you. That was one of the camps. So I slept on Brooks’ Couch at University of Tennessee working camp one summer when he was a GA there. He had been a student assistant when Ed and Andy Fox were on Buzz Peterson’s staff at Tennessee.

So there’s the there’s the coaching community at work for you. But knowing Brooks a little bit from being a, we’re both kind of Columbia, South Carolina guys and  he called me and said, Hey, . I’m leaving pc. I think he was actually joining Coach Wade’s staff at at Chattanooga at the time.

 coach needs to hire somebody. Doesn’t pay a whole lot would you be interested? I’m like, absolutely. And so long story short end up end up taking the job there at Presbyterian, which man I was on top of the world, I think is 24 years old. I think at the time. It’s a little bit different now.

I think at the time I was the youngest division one assistant in the country.  and I’m going, man, like this is, this is easy right now. I thought I had it made. I think I was making $12,000 a year plus plus housing. But man, I I thought I was like shock of smart  being able to, to climb the ranks that fast, right?

And living, living good old Clinton, South Carolina. But but no, it was it was a tremendous opportunity for me.  to, to get into college basketball and not far from home. I’ve been really blessed since then. As I said, the majority of my family’s in South Carolina. All of my family is in South Carolina to, to, to remain in the state, which is not something I really ever thought would be the case when you choose a career in basketball.

 but but worked there for, for Greg Bert, who was really successful there for a long time, especially in division two days.  kind of, kind of built that program into the transition division one. And and it was a look, we had three assistants and that was it, right? So I was the third assistant by name, but I was also the GA and the director of ops and the video and do the laundry and do everything.

But I loved it and that was extremely valuable experience for me.  I think the one thing. That I’ve kind of, I prided myself on and I think has really, really prepared me as I’ve taken subsequent steps in my career is and I don’t think there’s an aspect of a basketball program that I have not touched or been responsible for at some point.

And  I think those are the times when going back to  what drives you as a player and what drives you to, to make certain decisions.  if you don’t have passion for it, there’s a lot of people that want to get into coaching, right? But. You can’t tell me if you don’t have passion.

If you’re someone that doesn’t have a tremendous amount of passion for it, that you’re going to take a job in Cleveland, Mississippi at Delta State University as a grad assistant and then go work for $12,000 a year at Presbyterian College and Clinton, South Carolina, and do everything under the sun and work your tail off and live in a little tiny off campus apartment, ?

But I was having the time of my life,  not, not one day did it ever feel like work. And  it was you, you, you pinch yourself and say, Hey, I’m a, I’m a division one basketball assistant man. That’s, is this is, this is pretty cool.

[00:46:57] Mike Klinzing: I think that the passion that you described, right, and the ability to look at what you’re getting to do every single day, there’s so many guys that describe John, same way that you just described in terms of, I.

I didn’t feel like I was working right. That, yeah, I’m, I’m in a tiny apartment or I’m making no money, or whatever it may be. It’s certainly not the glamorous life that when people in the general public hear, Hey, I’m a college basketball coach, your story and what you’re doing in the early parts of your career is not what most people are picturing in their mind.

Right? When somebody says, Hey, I’m a college basketball coach. That’s not what, that’s not what they’re picturing. And yet, at the same time, I’ve talked to so many guys that have expressed a similar sentiment to what you just did, that look, I know I wasn’t making any money. I know it wasn’t living a glamorous life, but I was doing exactly what I wanted to do, and I knew that I was in the right place for me because of again, how much I loved it.

And then that goes even further to what you were talking about where you said. You’ve touched every aspect of a basketball program, right? So you’re talking about all the administrative tasks and things that, again, people on the outside don’t see, right? It’s not just you show up at practice and you coach the game and you’re on game night and you’re sitting on the bench.

And there, there’s so many other things that go into running a successful program, and I don’t care what level of basketball you’re on that players, parents, fans, people just don’t see. If you’re not in the coaching profession, you don’t understand what it’s all about. And so to be able to maintain the passion that you have for coaching when you’re doing all those things, not just the basketball coaching, but all the other administrative tasks that it takes in order for a program to be successful.

And you can do that again when you’re making next to no money, when you’re. Living in conditions that, again, when you look back on ’em now, you’re like, man, It was, it’s pretty cool that I was able to survive and make that work on that salary, that particular place where I was living. Yeah. And still look back on it fondly as an experience that you had, that you got to grow and, and be able to, to learn in your profession.

I think what you talked about right there with Presbyterian where you only have three assistants on your staff, right? Where you get thrown a whole lot of things on your plate that maybe if you had been at a bigger school, at a bigger staff, that you wouldn’t have had the opportunity to do. I know a lot of Division three guys will tell me starting out as a division three assistant.

You’re doing every single thing, right? You, you have to be involved mm-hmm. In this, that, and they take those experiences and then go with them as they build on in their career. And obviously that’s what you did as you, as you moved on to your next stop at South Carolina. So talk about your experience there with Coach Martin and just what it was like to, to be in that environment and again, what you took maybe from Presbyterian into that job that helped you to succeed there.

[00:49:54] John Reynolds: Yeah, and I’ll, even if If I can go backwards just, just for a second there.  I, sure. I think those, you see a lot of people, a lot of coaches kind of flame out during that time, right? They decide, this is not what I want to do. I want to make more money, I want to do this. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

But I think when you’re following your passion, you’re, you’re not caught up in. What you’re getting out of it, right? All, all of your focus is on what am I putting in? What, what am I contributing?  who, whose, whose lives am I touching? Whose games am I helping? ? And I just, just an appreciation for just being able to be a part of it.

And I think you can kind of lose that when your focus is on what’s in it for me, ? I go back, I didn’t make any money there. I didn’t deserve to make any money. What, what, what monetary value was I bringing?  I had a resume of nothing. I was at a small college that was probably profiting nothing for the college.

I wasn’t worth it yet, ? And I think, and not, not to sound like an old, old guy yelling at a cloud, but  I, I think it’s the, it’s the, it’s the beautiful thing about it sometimes is those are the days where people kind of get weeded out of the profession. And the profession at times does a good job of.

Of cleaning that up. If, if your heart’s not in the right place if your focus is not, not in the right place, if it’s on your salary at the time or the lifestyle of what you’re getting out of it, you’re not going to be fulfilled. And that’s the way it should be because you’re not in it for those reasons.

And so it was a very productive, that was my time to put together my resume, right? Like, you want to make money, you want to make the next step, well put in the work,  come, come up with your value do something valuable before you deserve it. And on that note  we get, we get let go or, or your coach, coach steps down at Presbyterian.

And  they asked me to be their interim head coach.  I was 27, 28 I’m like, sure. What, what else am I going to do? Right?  during that time, here we go in. It was kind of an odd Yeah. Yeah. He hurts.  you think you’re a head coach. Go ahead. And it was a great time for me because it made me  that, and what I told him was, look, I’ll only do it if I’m, I want to be considered for the job.

Just gimme an interview. Right. If I get an interview, I’ll do it. And they said, yeah you’re absolutely, you’re you’re a candidate. Which I didn’t really believe, but it made me prepare, it made me put my thoughts on paper. It made me okay, like, here’s my chance to run a program.

What is my program? What is my program? What, like and  it went the distance. I ended, actually ended up being in the final group, and it went all the way to May 22nd. So, I mean, I went out and recruited, I held workouts. I signed two players as an interim, which I wasn’t really sure about.

They told me to go ahead and do it. So I’m trying to get the job. I’m like, yeah, I’m going to sign some kids. Right. So it goes all the way to May 22nd. They hired, finally hired Dustin Kerns, who they should have hired. He was coming off of a really good run as an assistant at Walford and ended up doing a very good job there.

But it’s June and I’m out of a job and I’ve got four years division one experience. I’m thinking at this point I can, I can bring value to somebody, right? I think I was an associate head coach there for the last two years. But  it’s June, most of the jobs, the carousels kind of done at that point.

And  I’ve got roots in Columbia.  my wife who we got married during my time at Presbyterian, she was in law school at University of South Carolina School of Law. So spent quite amount of time in Columbia and would drop in and practice. Have to be close with their operations guy, Andy Asley at USC and know, had had kind of struck up a friendship with, with Frank for, for whatever reason.  we were, we were kind of recruiting some kids on the same AU teams and would just run into each other a lot and just always had a good conversation. Anybody that knows Frank just knows he’s one of the best to sit with during an AU game or whatever.

It’s never a dull moment with him. And  was going, just going around to practices and visiting with people and they’re coming off a Final Four.  it’s just incredible. I mean, I grew up a, a Gamecock fan in Columbia and that, that level of success was just unheard of. And  I’m sitting in the gym and they’ve already got their new guys on campus and he’s like, Hey, look, if I want you, I think you deserve a job.

I think you deserve to get paid somewhere, but  if you got nothing we’ll, we’ll figure something out. Just come on. We’ll. I’ll figure out something for you to do but just let me know if nothing else works out. Well, I hear that. I’m like, forget anything else, like I’m in,  just like, just like my, my playing career starting at the Citadel.

Like that’s all I needed to hear. I mean, you’re coming off of a Final Four and  just goes to show  I don’t know. I would like to think I’m, I was a little bit more than a charity case, but Frank, I mean, certainly didn’t have to do anything for me. He had a full staff. They’re coming off a final four.

There’s, I mean, how many of thousands of coaches would’ve gone there to volunteer for, for a guy of his reputation with the amount of success that they had had. And and so just really kinda had a thin air, just created a spot for me on the staff. And  my first year there was just add value in any way that I can don’t come in, don’t mess it up. Right? They got a good thing going. Just kind of observe and find ways that, that I can help, ? Is there an assistant coach I can get with and cut up some extra film? Is there a, is there an area  of the game that I can chart?  is there, is there something I, what, what can I do?

 without being being the new guy that’s  coming in hot. And and so we did and kind of, kind of carved out a really a niche for me and  my roles there kind of progressed as the years went on. But, but man, forever, forever grateful to him and Frank.

I mean, there, he’s, he is a mentor, he is a brother, he is, he is all that stuff.  our families are extremely close to this day. But, but always grateful for him for, for kind of taking me in off the, off the streets, so to speak there. And in a difficult time.

[00:56:11] Mike Klinzing: I love when you talk about adding value, right?

And I think that it’s one of the things that has been a theme throughout the podcast and different interviews and people that we’ve talked to. One thing that always comes up right, is that ability to, to do your job, especially as an assistant coach, right? Where you’re, you’re bringing value to your head coach and to the program to try to make that program better in any way that you can.

And I think your story is very illustrates really well the concept of, you’ve have to do your job in the spot where you’re at as well as you possibly can without having one eye looking the other way for the next job, right? You have to go above and beyond in your current role, and when you do that, that’s what’s going to create mm-hmm.

That next opportunity for you. Whether that’s again. Go into a camp, whether that’s doing something extra, whether it’s just, again, bringing that enthusiasm every day, whatever it is, if you bring the best to your current role, that’s what’s going to get you your next opportunity. And I think that your story really illustrates that really well.

Because what you’ve done is you’ve built relationships with people because of the work ethic, because of what you’ve brought to the table, regardless of whether you were making zero money, whether you were making your $12,000, whatever it is, you didn’t look at it as, Hey, this is the role. Whatever you’re, you’re just, you’re doing a job that you love.

And when you do that, people notice it. And then when the next opportunity comes to you, boom. All of a sudden, here you are and Coach Martin’s taking you in and And finding a spot for you. Yeah. And giving you another opportunity. And then you make the best of that. And it just kind of feeds on itself. But I think sometimes.

You can get caught up in, and this goes back to what you talked about, right? Weeding out of the profession that somebody who’s coaching and starts out in the humble beginnings like you did, right? And they look around, they’re like, come on man. I was a division one player. I I’m, I’m better than this.

Or I deserve  a bigger job or, or more, a more glamorous job or, or this or that. And then those are the people that usually, again, if, if you’re, if you’re got one foot out the door already thinking that you should be at the next job, that’s when things I think tend to go haywire, because again, you have to be a star in your role, and then that’s going to get you the next, the next role.

If that makes any sense.

[00:58:39] John Reynolds: No, I mean, I think, I think you’re spot on. And I can say this with, with a hundred percent certainty, and it’s, and it’s, there’s people that have told me and would disagree that it’s hurt my career to this point, but I’ve never, I’ve never taken a job for anything other than.

My excitement for that job and never for what I could get out of it or where it could take me.  I think everywhere I’ve ever been, I’ve thought I could work here forever. I could, I could retire here, right? Like, and that sounds crazy when you’re taking jobs at 23 years old or whatever.

But, but I think that’s the, that’s the necessary level of, of commitment that you, that you should have first to the person who hired you and then and second to your team. And that’s I think that’s where I’ve always just wanted to be part of a team. I, I want to be part of a group.

I identify strongly with that group that I’m a part of, and I don’t want to be a part of any other group until they tell me you can’t work here anymore whatever, what, whatever it is. And  that’s not to jump ahead, but that’s why I wanted this, this, this job that I, this step that I took in my career.

It was really my hardest decision ’cause it was one of the only times I’ve really just voluntarily like, had to be like, I’m, I’m leaving this place. And man, it’s incredibly, incredibly difficult for me personally and don’t, I have no disrespect for anyone that does take a job to, to further their career or whatever it is.

It’s just probably more of a, of a a pitfall of mine than anything else. But no, I just, just very grateful for the people I’ve been able to work for and  I just always felt like my loyalty is, is to them. And this is my group and these are the guys that I’m sticking with and to truly, truly be there with, with both feet and the entire time.

[01:00:32] Mike Klinzing: Let’s jump into the decision after South Carolina. You go back to your alma mater, you’re coaching at the Citadel.

[01:00:38] John Reynolds: Yeah.

[01:00:38] Mike Klinzing: Now you get an opportunity to coach at the high school level. Tell me about the decision to, as you’ve said throughout the conversation, right, your dream was to be a college basketball coach, and that’s something mm-hmm.

That you got to do for more than a decade, and now you get an opportunity to coach at the high school level. I know one of your motivations was to be a head coach, get some of those head coaching reps, but just talk about the decision. What was easy about the decision, what was difficult about the decision, and kind of when did you start thinking about, Hey, maybe this is a possibility, something that I want to look into.

Was it specifically the Wado job? Was it, Hey, I’m going to start looking for an opportunity to run a high school program. Just take me through your thought process.

[01:01:27] John Reynolds: Yeah. So going back leaving South Carolina  was extremely grateful. The chance to, to go back to Citadel Places. I care so much about and work for Ed, who I think a ton of, and we had a great deal of success there as a player and really as an alum, you’re, you’re proud of your, your, your school and  want to do everything we could to, to get it back to get it, to get it rolling and fully, fully invested in that.

And love working there. Love the institution, love what it represents. Love Charleston, love raising my family here. Wife loves it here.  the, the whole thing. And so it, it was truly this thing kind of came out of, came out of nowhere for me. It really did.  I think late in the year, february, March. They, they made a move over at, over at the high school. And through some kind of mutual contacts, I happened to go to school with some of the administration at the high school. And they, they just kind of reached out would I have any interest? And initially we’re, we’re kind of winding down our season.

I’m being nice ’cause I know the people I’m like, yeah I don’t know. Like, we’ll, can we talk after the season? And they’re like, yeah. ? Sure. And and didn’t think a whole lot more about it. And so yeah, we finished the year up and and they want to talk and we come in.

So, and I I meet with the principal and and first off, he, he was tremendous, like, just awesome, like, blew me away. And more than anything, just very, very aggressive in, Hey, we think you might have some interest in this. We haven’t been as good as we want to be for a little while now. Like, we’re ready, we’re ready to do something.

We really want to, like, their, their aggression was the first thing. Like, wow, they, they really want to be good, right? Like they’re, they’re trying to do something with basketball here. And so that was the first part of it. That’s what kind of, kind of drew me into it. I did feel that I was ready to be a head coach.

Just it’s just one of those, almost like one of those gut things. ? I loved my job. I had a tremendous amount of responsibility at the Citadel.  I did a whole lot. I basically ran I ran our offense I was heavily involved in every aspect, but you just, it’s like time to spread your wings, right?

It’s just, I felt like I had done, going back to earlier parts of our conversation, I’ve done everything there is to do in a basketball program other than lead the basketball program and going back to the. To the blacktop in first grade. All I’ve ever wanted to do is lead the basketball program.

It’s just, it’s just, I think it’s that, it’s that itch, ? And so  the more you start to think about it, I never totally ruled high school out.  but college basketball was my passion. But I did always think certain spots, you go, well, if I went high school route, like, that’d be a good place.

Right? You, you always think of those few, but it would, it’d have to be the right conditions, right? I don’t want to just be a, a career high school coach just for the sake of it. Like it’d have to be a great spot. And and really this spot, it checked all the boxes. It’s a massive high school. It’s been, it’s, it was the biggest high school in the state for a long, long time.

Recently split and made another five a high school. So  the numbers are there. It’s an outstanding community. My family loves being here. The school is five minutes down the street I think 10 years straight. They’ve been rated the number one high school in the state for academics. It’s just got a tremendous culture.

My kids started in first grade. We were blown away with just the school and the experience that our son, daughter have had going to school there. And it’s like, well, this is a community where like we want to be, ? And I get a chance to, to lead the basketball program and take on a challenge with people who are really supportive of that vision and told me all the right things.

Hey, we want this to be yours. We don’t want to, we don’t want you to adapt to us. We want you to bring your style in here and do it, like go make, make the changes, attack it any way you want to. And then  as an aside, I think on the personal side of it and the purposeful side of it, I kind of talked about my experience in high school and  we’ve had a lot of good players come out of South Carolina.

But I think there was an opportunity to add to like the grassroots development here and really have an impact on basketball in Charleston and the low country area as a whole. And  just kind of all of those things coming together the right time.  a place that we love, the right school, the right people.

At the end of the day, it was just something that I felt I owed it, I owed it to myself and everybody close to me to, to go see what we could do with it. But but  as I said before the hardest part was leaving the Citadel. I mean, it was it’s one of those things, like two things can be true, right?

I want this job and I don’t want to leave my other job I want ’em both,  good place to be. I love them both. And yeah, and it’s, and it’s there, there are some, everybody complains and talks about the changes in college basketball and everybody just assumes people are trying to get out and  there, there are fastest there, there’s parts of that that are true.

But really it was much more about just kind of where I was in my career and the opportunity I saw to kind of build something on my own.

[01:06:47] Mike Klinzing: So when you take the job, what are some of the things that, as you look at how you want to build your program, what are the first steps to doing that? I’m assuming you meet with the players.

Yeah. Talk to them and find out a little bit more, start looking at film and that kind of thing. But what, what were the first steps that you felt like you had to take in order to a, first understand where the program was and then b, start to get it moving in the right direction?

[01:07:14] John Reynolds: Yeah, I, I think before anything I, I like to think it’s the, the old, the corny thing about, about being a, a, a being a thermostat, right?

Not a, not a thermometer. I think bringing in the energy and just creating something right off the bat that people want to be a part of. That was my main thing. Make it fun to be in the gym make it attractive to be part of our basketball program. Build something starting with just yourself that people want to join.

And that was my first thing, right? Because we’re trying to build basketball here. They’ve had a ton of success in all kinds of different sports. The basketball thing has alluded them from low. It just hasn’t been that popular of a thing. And so that was the first thing. Just set the tone, come in with the right energy and be something that wants to attract people and that people want to be a part of.

And I think we accomplished that like right off the bat. I mean, I don’t know. I have had a gym full of kids for six months. My biggest adjustment, one of ’em is that before you have tryouts, you don’t truly have a team. So all these kids are on your team until you cut ’em. And so that, yeah, that was one of it.

 it’s, I’ve seen all kinds. I mean, we’ve, but it’s been great. I mean, it’s been great. Our numbers have been tremendous. It’s been what I thought, we’ve got a ways to go. We’re very, very, very, very, very young. Which I enjoy because it gives me a group  that I can work with and I can mold.

And if I’m going to be honest with you, the one thing that that did turn me off about college basketball in the last few years is, is that development process.  that’s what my program as a player was built on. That’s what I enjoy the most about coaching. I really enjoy being on the court.

Getting down there and sweating with the kids, putting in the work with them and making them get better.  like as long as they, they bring the work ethic, like, you and I are in this together and we’re going to get better. Well, nowadays you do that in college basketball and you don’t see it. You don’t, you don’t see the fruits of your labor and they go somewhere else.

And we can sit around and bicker and point fingers about whose fault that is, but that’s just the way it’s, and, I don’t necessarily blame the kids. I don’t blame the kids at all. But  as a coach, you, you get in it to, to get that fulfillment of, Hey, I made an impact on somebody.

 I made an impact on the team. I made an impact on the group. I saw it through. And so I’m excited about that on the high school side. Not that the portal doesn’t exist on my high school side either. But but I think having, being able to start with kids at a young age and work with them and see ’em grow and build a culture and build something that’s sustained through the years that, that was really a big part of the challenge that, that excited me.

 and we’re getting to the stage now where  it’ll, it’ll turn right. We have to get ready to go play now. It’s not about building excitement anymore and building the, building the team and building the community. Of course, that’s always part of it. But now, okay, we have to find out who our guys are and we have to turn the direction of.

Of going and starting to compete. But that was, that was, that was ground zero for me. And  I think to that, the point, my, the, the the intuition I had about what could be built here, I think has been proven correct just by the excitement, the number of kids that have been in the gym and have wearing their shirts around town or proud to be part of it.

Now we just have to go do it. And and so looking, looking forward to that chapter of it here here soon,

[01:10:51] Mike Klinzing: what are your off season rules in South Carolina as far as contact and having kids in the gym and what you’re allowed to do? I don’t

[01:10:58] John Reynolds: that, yeah, that’s that on the biggest adjustment for me. I don’t know if I already said a biggest adjustment that by far I always consider myself.

I knew all the NCA rules. Of course, now it’s easy to know ’em. There are, there are no rules anymore. You just do whatever you want. Exactly. Yeah. So I know those but  the calendar and, and navigating that and trying to squeeze out everything that you can around when you can have your guys working out and recruiting calendar and all that.

 I was always kind of the rules and compliance kind of guru on the staffs. Right. And just through the years you just get to know it and know how to navigate. And then coming to this side, it’s, I, that was one thing I did not even, I’d be honest with you, I didn’t think about, I didn’t prepare for just the differences.

And so  it’s open season is what they call it.  in certain months, June, July, we were able to have workouts, but it’s like you and basically anybody that wants to come in the gym, you can’t tell ’em no pretty much. And and you can’t have like selective workouts and things like that.

Now you can take a certain number of guys to team camps and things like that, but  for the most part they’re open. And then we were down again, and we were closed again in August. Oddly enough, we were open in September, which that just means on, on court stuff, right? No limitations as far as number of players and things like that.

If you can have workouts, you can have workouts but then they close it again in October, which makes. Very little sense to me. But, so right now we just have like strength and conditioning, weights, all that stuff. And then we start back up again, full go in November and we’re, we’re playing again then November.

So it’ll move really, really fast once November hits. And so that’s been an adjustment for me. But yeah, just, just trying to those, those those three month plans, six month plans, 12 month plans, and how that calendar looks year round and what you want to get out of all of it.  that’s that’s definitely been part of the learning curve for me.

[01:12:57] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. I think when you start talking about trying to put together what that plan looks like right month to month and over the course of your first year to make sure that you can get the things done that you want to get done, figuring out the pacing, I’m sure. Right. Once you open official practice and you get through your cuts and figure out like, okay, we.

X number of days away from the first game trying to figure out again kind of what the rhythm was in college basketball. We got this much time. Yeah. There’s the, what we have to get in, it’s how we have to do it. And obviously at the college level absolutely. You’re dealing with a higher level, higher level player.

So how have you thought about that in your mind, just in terms of sort of putting together the pacing of what you want to get done and what you hope to have in by the time you play your first game. Not that you have to share every detail, but just more about your thought process. A

[01:13:45] John Reynolds: lot. A lot.  especially being a first time head coach, right?

Like I’ve obviously, I’ve got things, I’ve kept really good notes throughout the years, but I don’t have anything that’s mine. Right. And I don’t have anything that would’ve prepared me for this calendar. And so I know what we have to get in. I’m fortunate, I’ve got a really good group that’s really been with me  since April and has been really consistent.

And those will be the main guys that I count on and, I also have them during a period during school, which helps but not all of them really. Only, I think eight of them during school. So we got a block. We have a block class. So I’ve been a lot more aggressive in installing team things.  I told them this all summer.

Like, look, they hired me. I didn’t get on the court with these guys till June. I think June 3rd was our first day on the court together. June 6th, we were playing in team camp. I’m like, how I, when you add up the practices in the summer and the fall for college, you, you’ve practiced almost 90 times before you play a game like 90.

And I told, I told the kids this, I was like, we’re pr about to practice three and go play a game. Like, I got no idea what you guys are going to do, right? But it does, Hey, it, it makes you really it makes you pare down your pare down your thoughts and your principles and what you, what’s most important and what you have to get through.

But we’ve had a little bit of time since then. But I’ve, but I’ve told ’em all throughout the summer leading up, like I’m doing a lot more team stuff right now ’cause you guys don’t know what our system is.  I’d like to, moving forward in the summer, I would like for it to be almost all skill-based.

And this year it was probably 70% team stuff, 30% skill, just because we have to get stuff in, ? And the way that we play takes a little bit more time.  it’s little bit more read and react, a little bit more decision making on the players out there, on the courts.

They have to understand how to make those decisions, and the only way you do that is to get the reps. And so yeah, I did a lot more of that in the summer and our open periods leading and just treated ’em really more like practices rather than just open workouts  to, to get that out.

But, but no, you break up a great point and it’s my biggest thing right now as we sit here. I think last, yesterday was a month until our first game. I don’t get ’em on the court for full practice until November 3rd, and I’ve got no zone offense any zone defense that we might play. I put in like two very basic baseline out bounds plays to get us through the summer.

I got no baseline out bounds. We don’t know how to guard baseline out bounds plays.  all of that stuff that keeps a, keeps a coach up at night it’s like, oh gosh,  what, 1, 3, 1, I have to, we’re going to see 1, 3, 1 and the way it goes, we’ll see, we’ll see every junk defense there is known to man in the first game of the season.

 just to, just to put you to the test. But no, it’s a, it’s a huge part of, of really every day,  trying to map that out and when you, and when you start looking at it and break it down, I think we have like 14 practices before our first game. So it’s going to be really important.

And we’re going to be throwing a lot at them. But they’ve been great. They, they, they’re smart kids. They’re sharp. They can pick up stuff, they really do, and they gimme a hundred percent, a hundred percent effort, which is anything that you can ask for. But here, here’s another thing I have to be ready for.

I probably got three football players that are coming over in the middle of November that, that haven’t done anything with us for, but for, they’re some of the best athletes in the school. So I have to teach ’em something. I have to get ’em ready to play. But but yeah, that’s those have that’s what we sign up to do.

So it’s but the challenge of it’s been, it’s been fun.

[01:17:24] Mike Klinzing: You’ve been taking notes or keeping a journal as you’ve been going through this beginning part of taking the job so that you can kind of have that to reflect upon as you go through the year and look at like, Hey man, this, yeah, this really worked.

Yeah. Or I was on track here, or man, this, I was way off.

[01:17:39] John Reynolds: So I got, I’m a big note taker that, that Ed probably, I owe that to Ed Conroy. We were, we were always a program that had our, our notebooks and every film session we were writing things down and just recording everything. And I got a shout him out again.

He is getting a lot, a lot here. The remarkable tablets I used, I use religiously. So I don’t know if you’re familiar with that, but he kind of got me on there. So  it’s a tablet I’m able to keep all my notes in and keep organized and yeah, I got a, I got a bunch of tabs going right now.

But, but yeah, we’ve, we record every day.  what we’re doing and I’ve leaned on, I’ve, I think I’ve kept every practice plan in my career. So I’ve gone back through all those binders and again, really the biggest thing is, is that that, that, that scope, right, that scope of work and  everything that you have to get in and the pacing of it really, really important right now.

And I’ll tell you what, I’m, I’m glad I did, right? I’m, I’m glad I ly I didn’t take those things because you take for granted how much you can keep between your ears and you go back and look and  even my time in South Carolina that’s one thing that stood out. I thought Frank was really good intentional about just sprinkling those things in.

 we’re going to hit a five minute segment of zone and it’s in August and you’re like, why are we doing this?  but just to kind of, instead of, instead have a cramming in over a two or three day period,  you. Sprinkling in here and there introduce it. I think one of, one of Ed’s ed’s big things, and even going back playing for, for Doug Novak of, of  having a period of install and then in installing something five on oh one day and then coming back to it the next day, ?

And not, not throwing too much at ’em at once, but but yeah, yeah, very, very, very important. And I’m sure I’m sure I’ll go back and look at my notes from this year and even though they’re digital, find a way to crumple ’em up and throw ’em in the trash can and prove upon ’em for, for moving forward and everything.

That didn’t work. But but yeah, I’m, I’m definitely calling on that a lot recently.

[01:19:44] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I just think that that shortens the learning curve. And like you said, there’s things that in the moment you’re like, oh yeah, this is great. This is working. Or Oh, maybe it’s not working as well as I would’ve thought.

And here’s some ideas. And if you don’t put those on paper. And you go through the course of a season and that stuff is gone when you try to recall it. If you’re just trying to keep it in your mind. And so I would think, especially as a first year head coach, that keeping detailed notes about what went on in practice and, hey, we have to prepare for this, or we needed some extra time with this to get ready for our first game, or whatever it may be, to be able to have those notes.

Mm-hmm. Then to go and be able to review at the end of, at the end of the season, I think is to me is going to be, is going to be invaluable. So as you look ahead to this season and just think about what you have in front of you, when you get to next March and you look back, how are you going to define in your mind, a successful season?

What’s that going to, what’s that going to look like for you when you think about what a successful first year season will be for you as a head coach at the high school level?

[01:20:50] John Reynolds: Yeah, I mean, I think it’s I talked earlier about the excitement of the kids in the gym, their willingness to work.  I, I think carrying that over, coming to a place that hasn’t won much the last few years can we establish that identity of competitive excellence?

Then not just be a group that loves basketball and likes to work on our skills.  when we get to the end, which what it’s all about, right? It’s all, no, we do all this stuff. We do it all year round and we love to talk hoops and we love to be around it, but it’s about the games, right? Like it’s about the scoreboard at the end of the day.

And were we able to establish an identity of we’re going after our opponents, we’re attacking the game, we’re laying it on the line, and whatever happens on that scoreboard fine, we’ll deal with it. But, but we’re going out there with the expectation and the mindset to, to win, right? And if we don’t, we’re, we’re really disappointed and we’re really hurt by it.

And so I think when you’re, when you’re taking over a, a, a place that, that hasn’t tasted that, of establishing that as the expectation and as the standard. And then for me I think being patient in that process of  of talking to people and not trying to go too fast and not trying to get it all at once and not expecting that final product.

Having your standards be your standards, but also understanding that I even told our kids the other day, ’cause I’ve got mostly freshmen and sophomores, they’re super, super young. Say, Hey, this is going to be the worst year that we have together, and that’s a good thing, right? Like, the better days are every day we come in here should be better than the last.

I mean, their eyes were like this big. I’m like, this is going to be our worst season in the next five years. Right. And that they kind of started understanding where I was going with it. But, but no, it’s that’s where I want to be in March is looking back and saying, man, my kids really compet.

Like they competed because I know, I’ve seen it. They’ve got the work ethic, they have the want to. But can you go take it to another team?  can, can you go, how do you deal with adversity? How do you deal with physicality? How do you deal with being out athlete on the court? Do you back away from those challenges or do you meet ’em head on?

And if, if I’m able to see that at the end of the year, I’ll be, I’ll be really pleased about where we’re, where we’re headed.

[01:23:13] Mike Klinzing: That’s an excellent definition of success. And I think if you can get there with your first team, it bodes well for what you’re going to continue to be able to build in the future.

All right. Final question. When you think about what you get to do every day as a basketball coach, and it’s kind of been woven throughout our entire conversation, but I want to hear you kind of sum it up. When you think about what you get to do each and every day, what brings you the most joy as a basketball coach?

[01:23:41] John Reynolds: Yeah, it’s it’s hard not to give a, a token answer here, but, but I really do like, and especially now that I’m not an old coach by any means, but I’ve, but I’ve put some years in. Man, it’s the, it’s the people that you do it with, it really is. Like, and, and I made a decision back early in my career.

I’m only going to work with and for people, I really, I really wholly trust and believe in and just want to be around every single day. And guys like Frank Martin like working for Ed Citadel at a place that I love. But, but I can’t think of there are certain times in your career you go through like am I going to have to do something else?

I don’t want to do something else. But if I can’t get a job what, what am I going to do? And you don’t realize until you even think about stepping out of it, like the depths of the relationships that you’re able to form through basketball, you don’t get in other places. Like you can’t tell me that you get it at a desk job or, or any, and not to belittle those jobs, but you just, you don’t go through the fire together.

 you, you, you, you don’t tell me where else you’re, you’re having those close relationships with, with 21 year olds who are, or 18 year olds who are at crucial point in their lives and are, they’re going through things right. And you’re, you’re there, you’re, you’re an older brother, you’re a father figure to him, and, and you were there for him.

And not only that, but, but you fought together and you worked together towards the common cause. And then when I see it come back  it’s. My son’s birthday was my, my son and my daughter’s birthday was in the last month.  when you put things out on social media and I see the former players that are coming back in the comments, happy birthday and all this kind of stuff.

And it’s like, man, like we know how like blessed we are. Like, I got kids, I got dudes that are SEC players of the year wishing my kid happy birthday. But that’s kind of a, like a trivial thing, but, but  to have those people still around in your, in your life and it really is like, you hear it a lot.

But this game and this profession  it allows us to make bonds that, that I just, I don’t think are possible otherwise. And you just hope as your coach, as a coach you’re doing your part and making those experiences that have made other people better. But, but I think about the people that it’s brought me to contact with, the people that.

I never would have come across in any other walk of life at any other point in my life had I chosen another route. And so blessed and thankful to be able to do it. And that, that I have those people and  the ones that you truly been through some things with and that that you can count on, man, that’s something special.

And that’s what, that’s what keeps me keeps me fired up to do it every day.

[01:26:34] Mike Klinzing: That’s well said. And I think when I look at the basketball community and I just think about this silly podcast that we’re doing tonight and that I’ve been doing for seven years, and I look at it as, again, a way to be able to give back to the game, but also a way to be able to connect with people.

And you and I just talked for an hour and a half and it felt like it was 10 minutes.  I joke a lot of times in my post podcast conversation that we’ll have here in a second when we’re done, I oftentimes, I’ll joke and say.  we talked for an hour and 10 minutes and we didn’t even get to your current job yet.

 what I mean? Like, we’re, we’re going through and we’re having, we’re having this conversation and I’m like, well, well, we better get to the job that this guy has right now and at least talk a little bit about it, but that we’ve already been going for, for so long. And I think that that’s kind of what you’re talking about is just the connection that you can make and whether it’s with your players, whether it’s with your fellow coaches, and clearly it’s a thread that has woven its way through your entire career in terms of the relationship that ships that you’ve built through your various experiences or, or what’s helped you to get that next experience.

And I think that when you talk about the basketball community I think the thing that has impressed me the most over the course of time that I’ve done the podcast is just the willingness of people to share and share because they just love the game and they want to see the game be better. And to me, I always say that like I, there’s no way I can give back to basketball.

What basketball has given me when I look at my life and the people in it, the things that I’ve done, the experiences that I’ve had, like everything that I have basically traces back to basketball in some way, shape, or form. Mm-hmm. Like all, all roads lead back to it. And I think that’s, again, that’s something that I feel coming from you as well.

You can just, you can just sense it in the conversation, in your career arc and in everything that you’ve done and how important basketball is. And again, I’m just thankful that you were willing to come on tonight and share your time with us. And before we get out, I want to give you one opportunity to share how can people get in touch with you, find out more about what you’re doing, whether you want to share social media, website, email, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I’ll jump back in and wrap things up.

[01:28:54] John Reynolds: Yeah. No, over at over at Wando High School. So I think my, here, let me check here. My because I had to change ’em, right? I had to change all my social media. Exactly. I’m on Instagram and Twitter @JohnReynoldsSR

We were all SC when I was at South Carolina, so we had to switch it up a little bit. So @JohnReynoldsSr Instagram and Twitter. Also JohnReynoldsbasketballcamps.com. We got that up and running and I run most of that through my own social media, so reach out to me there.

Would love to connect. And, and again, I know we have to wind up here. Something I really always took from Frank Martin, man, he was one of the best at just giving it away. Right. Give your knowledge away. I mean, we give away practice tapes. We gave away everything. I’m like, Frank, you sure you want me to put this out?

But always about paying it forward and like so many people have done for me. So if there’s ever anybody that I could help in any way or just want to talk ball always, always happy to, to connect and  bring, bring some more people into a circle.

[01:30:00] Mike Klinzing: John, I cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us?

Really appreciate it. And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.

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[01:31:03] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Hoop Heads Podcast presented by Head Start Basketball.