TERRANCE “MUNCH” WILLIAMS: DIRECTOR OF THE PSA CARDINALS AAU PROGRAM & AUTHOR OF THE NEW BOOK “HERE ARE THE ANSWERS” – EPISODE 1122

Website – https://www.proscholarsathletics.com/

Email – seriousman03@gmail.com

Twitter – @PSACardinals

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Terrance “Munch” Williams has been the Executive Director of ProScholars Athletics since 2008.  Under his leadership, ProScholars Athletics has grown from one team of a handful of afterschool students to a basketball program recognized as the top men’s basketball AAU program in the country.  His new book “Here are the Answers: A Roadmap for Navigating Success in the Business of Youth Basketball” offers valuable insights into every aspect of navigating the basketball world from the perspective of coaches, athletes, and parents. Williams explores the grassroots system in detail, providing a comprehensive guide to understanding and succeeding in the business of basketball.

On this episode Mike & Munch discuss the paramount importance of nurturing not only athletic prowess but also character development among players. Williams articulates a vision that transcends the mere act of teaching basketball skills, advocating instead for a holistic approach that considers the broader implications of youth sports on personal growth and societal contribution. This approach necessitates a concerted effort to forge meaningful connections with players and their families, ensuring that the values of respect, gratitude, and community service are instilled alongside athletic training.

In his latest book, ‘Here Are the Answers: A Roadmap for Navigating Success in the Business of Youth Basketball’, Williams provides a comprehensive guide that addresses the complexities of the grassroots basketball landscape. He delves into the intricacies of navigating recruitment processes, financial management, and organizational challenges, all while underscoring the significance of fostering positive relationships within the sport. The book serves as an invaluable resource for coaches, players, and parents alike, offering insights into effectively balancing the demands of competitive sports with the essential life lessons that accompany them. Williams’ dedication to creating an environment where athletes can thrive both on and off the court is evident throughout this enlightening conversation.

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Grab your notebook before you listen to this episode with Terrance “Munch” Williams, Director of the PSA Cardinals AAU Program in the Bronx, New York and author of the new book, ““Here are the Answers: A Roadmap for Navigating Success in the Business of Youth Basketball”

What We Discuss with Terrance “Munch” Williams

• “The book “Here are the Answers” provides a comprehensive exploration of navigating the complexities of youth basketball, aimed at coaches, athletes, and parents alike
• How the book is organized to provide answers to the challenges in youth basketball
• The importance of character development over mere basketball skills, highlighting that good coaching must focus on building individuals rather than just athletes
• The evolution of Pro Scholars Athletics, illustrating how it has transformed into a leading AAU program under his guidance since 2008
• Understanding the difference between mentors and handlers
• The necessity of fundraising and budget management for AAU programs, detailing how proper financial oversight is crucial for sustainable operations
• Fundraising through events like galas can significantly support programs
• The integration of academic support within athletic programs, ensuring that players receive guidance in their educational pursuits alongside basketball training
• Why we need to invest in character-building for youth involved in sports
• Navigating the recruitment process involves understanding fake vs. real offers
• Developing a strong support system within basketball programs, emphasizing respect and the need for good role models
• Gratitude and respect are essential values to instill in young athletes
• Understanding the significance of nutrition and personal conduct is crucial to achieving success in both basketball and life
• The holistic development of players, advocating for their growth as individuals beyond just athletic performance

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High school and middle school basketball program directors, listen closely. Coaches are expected to do far more than just coach. You know this. It doesn’t matter if you’re doing the coaching yourself, or you have a full staff of coaches with you. You know very well that coaches handle scheduling, academic issues, parent communication, leadership development, and even mental health concerns for athletes. A lot to deal with, and they haven’t even gone home yet to balance those responsibilities.

No matter the passion for the game, and burning desire to help athletes develop, this level of responsibility can lead to burnout, inefficiency, and less time spent on actual coaching. You know it’s true.

When coaches are stretched too thin, it impacts the development of athletes, team morale, and the overall success of the program. Now here comes the outsiders throwing their two cents in about what’s happening. Then come the parents complaining about how you’re running things, as if they know what they’re talking about. When’s the last time you went to their place of work chiming in from outside their window?

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THANKS, TERRANCE “MUNCH” WILLIAMS

If you enjoyed this episode with Terrance “Munch” Williams let him know by clicking on the link below and thanking him via Twitter.

Click here to thank Munch via Twitter

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And if you want us to answer your questions on one of our upcoming weekly NBA episodes, drop us a line at mike@hoopheadspod.com.

TRANSCRIPT FOR TERRANCE “MUNCH” WILLIAMS: DIRECTOR OF THE PSA CARDINALS AAU PROGRAM & AUTHOR OF THE NEW BOOK “HERE ARE THE ANSWERS” – EPISODE 1122

[00:00:00] Narrator: The Hoop Heads Podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball.

[00:00:20] Terrance “Munch” Williams: We try to find the right human before the right coach. The basketball stuff, you can teach that, but I’m not sure you could teach somebody how to be a good person.

[00:00:31] Mike Klinzing: Terrance “Munch” Williams has been the executive director of Pro Scholars Athletics since 2008. Under his leadership Pro Scholars athletics has grown from one team of a handful of afterschool students to a basketball program recognized as the top men’s AAU basketball program in the country.

His new book “Here are the Answers, A Roadmap for Navigating Success in the Business of Youth Basketball” offers valuable insights into every aspect of navigating the basketball world from the perspective of coaches. Athletes and parents Munch explores the grassroots system in detail, providing a comprehensive guide to understanding and succeeding in the business of basketball.

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[00:01:53] Ido Singer: Hi, this is Ido Singer, author of the Blobin Hood Newsletter, and you’re listening to the Hoop Heads Podcast

[00:02:03] Mike Klinzing: Coaches. You’ve got a game plan for your team, but you have one for your money. That’s where Wealth4Coaches comes in. Each week, we’ll deliver simple, no fluff financial tips made just for coaches. Whether you’re getting paid for camps, training sessions, or a full season, Wealth4Coaches helps you track it, save it, and grow it.

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Grab your notebook before you listen to this episode with Terrance Munch Williams, director of the PSA Cardinals AAU Program in the Bronx, New York. An author of the new book, Here are the Answers, A Roadmap for Navigating Success in the Business of Youth Basketball. Hello and welcome to The Hoop Heads podcast.  It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight. But I am pleased to be joined back for the, I don’t know, what is this? The fourth time including the One thousandth episode, Terrence Munch Williams from the PSA Cardinals author of the brand new book. Here are the answers. Munch, welcome back, my man.

[00:03:20] Terrance “Munch” Williams: Yes sir. Man, listen, I appreciate you having me, man. The energy is always A1. The respect goes both ways.  we obviously here to discuss the new book, but more importantly, just two good men trying to get on some, get on the same record and talk through life. So here are the answers. Second.

Probably been out for about five days now. I’m excited to get it in as many people hands as possible. So on Amazon, right? So once again, we went through Amazon for self-publishing purposes. So you have a one-stop shop the way you want to go get it. I think we probably sold maybe a thousand copies in the first five days, so it’s moving.

It’s a lot of good energy. I applaud anyone that’s gotten they hands on it. I’m actually going out in the limb telling people like, Hey, listen, you get this book and you pay your 20 bucks. And if you’re listening to this podcast, I know people know how to get to me so they know how to get to my phone number.

If the book is not a one and you don’t like it, you can get your 20 bucks back. So contact me. I’m not sure there’s any authors in the country willing to do that. But I feel so good about this, about this work of art and about this this literature. And I, and I, and I feel confident about what it’s, what it can do for the culture.

[00:04:30] Mike Klinzing: Well, I’m not asking for my 20 bucks back. I can tell you that the book is really well done, and I’m looking forward to discussing it, talking about some of the things that you put in there. Let’s start with the why behind it. Why this book? Why talking about just the process and what you do, how you do it, why you do it.

Tell me why the book, why now?

[00:04:52] Terrance “Munch” Williams: Yeah, I mean, I think the timing is perfect, man. I think with, with so much going on in the grassroots field, high school field, college area, MBA the, the, the, the rapid refund of how things are going there’s a lot of need for, for answers. There’s a lot of need for formula.

There’s a lot of need for, for structure. And I, and I think I could provide that. We could provide that. Just the timing in which this occurs, I think is perfect. I think that families, I think people are trying to find ways to work together. I think everyone is kind of sometimes working in a pocket, so a lot of times you can’t see what the other person is doing.

And just this, this space has so much going on at the same time. I think everyone has, if you see the book entries of different topics and all. Right. And I think it’s hard for people to know if I’m focusing on one topic, how do I know these other 55 topics actually exist or they’re necessity in this space.

Second thing for me was a matter of respect. I think that this book demands respect for what’s going on on a daily basis within grassroots basketball, high school, basketball, college landscape, just different areas. I think especially when it comes to the grassroots field, the, the quick quote quote and comments are always, Hey, it’s such a negative space, or people just roll out the ball when they come to basketball.

But I think if you took your time to dissect this, this, this knowledge in this information that’s being, that’s being handed to you, you’ll see like, Hey, even before you get on basketball court, there’s so many different things that’s going on. Right? And some, some. And help the space and it’s not just roll out the basketball.

So I’m trying to create something that hopefully the grassroots coaches, AAU coaches, just trainers, and just people that’s in the field can feel more positive about themselves, right? And feel like, Hey, my work isn’t going unnoticed. It’s not a competitive thing between each other. But also the people that aren’t in it on a day-to-day basis, they’ll have more information as opposed to just saying, Hey, this is what I think versus this is what I know, or this is what I’ve been able to see or experience.

I think a lot of experiences in this, in is in this book, and I think that it, it forces people to not just make wild comments on this versus, Hey.

I’m not sure how many people think about how do you balance a, a budget or how do you deal with fundraising or the art of Thank you. And how do you deal with guys trying to run a, a high school event or just different elements that are going on simultaneously? I just want to bring respect to the, to the culture.

I want to bring respect to the field. I want to bring just a little bit more dignity in which, what, what they believe is actually happening versus just, hey, all AAU is a negative connotation of just throw out the balls and let the kids run around. That’s not the process.

[00:07:47] Mike Klinzing: Right. So here’s what I want to start, rather than diving into a specific detail, which we’re going to get to a bunch of specific details and things that I found to be interesting and things that maybe some people out there aren’t aware of when it comes to a a u basketball.

But one of the overarching themes that I took out of the book Munch, is the idea that. The guys who are a part of your program and the families who are a part of your program, it is about more than just basketball. It is about those players as people. It is about working with the families. It is about them as students.

It is about the big picture and how you can have an impact on those players’ lives. So start with the idea of going back to the beginning when you got started in the A A U business. Why and how did you come up with the process of, Hey, I want to make sure that I’m doing more than just running a basketball program.

I want to make sure that I’m impacting kids’ lives. Why? Why was that?

[00:09:00] Terrance “Munch” Williams: I mean, I think that stuff starts with in any business or organization you run in, they tell you to surround yourself by people that are smarter than you. Right? My, my guys that I’m with every day they’re intelligent. They, they’re not Yes men, they’re consistently focusing on the holistic approach to the young man, right?

And to the family. So even when I drop the ball and get centered into the basketball space for too long, they’ll pull my coattail back to say, Hey, listen, we, this is not, this is not what we about. This is this is not what we’re trying to do. So I’m always going to be surrounded by other, other men, other staff members, other brothers friends.

These are, these are my friends, these are my brothers. They’re consistent with that. And they’ve always been, been, been under that jurisdiction, I think. If you look at our background, the directors are either division three basketball players or non-college basketball players. So we’ve never been in a space where we’ve been spoiled or, or things have been handed to us from a basketball lens.

I think for me personally, I’ve been fortunate enough that some of my life mentors at an early age, at like 15, 16 years old were people that were highly academic people, right? Adults that were, Hey, I’m graduating from Yale. I’m at, I’m at UPenn, I’m at Brown. Like, so I’ve always been surrounded in a sense from a, a early age when it was time to make major decisions by people that taught me how to make decisions based on long term and based on data or, or education in real life versus just basketball.

Right? And if you start going further into it, even from us running a program, you only playing maybe two hours of basketball per day. Per day, seven days a week. Whether that’s a practice, a workout, a game, it’s not a ton of basketball. Right? But if you look at the, the numbers in which the statistics show you, Hey listen, these kids want to make it to the NBA, but they’ve only playing two hours of basketball and it’s 24 in a day.

So the other two, the other 22 hours, they’re literally in spaces where decisions are important. And understanding, yes, from no understanding not how to, how to not take shortcuts, understanding finances, like all of these different things for them and their families are critical decisions every single day.

And you got 22 hours in the day to try to figure out how to consistently make good decisions. And if you don’t, then you don’t necessarily have a good percentage of probability to make it to that draft night to get to the league. Right. And then obviously we all know the numbers of making it to the NB is small.

So I just started to look at the space to say, Hey. How can we create something that even though we’re playing basketball, how can we create a space that we’re teaching these guys real life lessons? And most, most programs are trying to do the same thing. This is not just a PSA thing, right? These are a lot of programs across the country trying to figure out ways to holistically deal with kids.

And then as you’re dealing with it, you’re seeing all these other things come up. Hey, how, what’s the kid’s academic stability? What’s the kid’s nutrition? What’s the kid’s education level? What’s the kid’s  his, his home life, his just, just all of these different variables that play a role in whether or not, quote unquote, they’re going to make it to their end goal of what they would, their, what they’re trying to achieve.

 these deflectors and these, and these this, this bulletproof vest to figure out how do you protect these families and these kids and yourself from the madness. And just try to teach them as they go further. You want to teach them humanitarian, you want to teach them community service, you want to teach them how to get back.

But you have a lot of hours, to be honest, to do these things if you take it serious. Right? And if you chop it up in these different categories, and you could figure out how to give them a lot of these different, these different fruits. But I think for us, it all starts from, hey, we weren’t, we didn’t grow up trying to make it to the NBA, which is the directors of the program.

But we also understand that our backgrounds require us to be, you know.

Hey, it’s not just about the sport of basketball, it’s about what it can do for you and how do you manipulate it and how do you use it and how do you capitalize from it. And even stuff like being able to write a second book and show them the marketing of it and show them the, the, the, the wear and tear of how to, how to sell books and how to understand data and strategizing and all of these things like I been.

The players, players, everyone players is involved in this journey, which is, which is a kickback to me in a sense because I’m trying to be involved in their journeys. So now they get a chance to see that and then they get to see black empowerment. They get to see positive male role model. You get to see entrepreneurship, you get to see that you’re more than just a, a person that shoots a basketball.

You get to see versatility and you also get the chance to see that you could do more than one thing at the same time and try to do both of those things. Great. So I’m trying to be a role model, not just for the kids in the program, but for the other adults in the space also because they’re being role models for me.

[00:14:05] Mike Klinzing: Tell me about the art of the Thank you. That’s a chapter that, or an entry that jumped out at me. You mentioned it right off the top, but when I read that, and this is something that munch, when I think about kids that. I’ve interacted with and I think about my own kids, right? And I know the amount of time that my wife and I spent teaching our kids to be polite, to look at people in the eye when they’re talking to ’em, to say, please and thank you.

And so when I see a kid that does those things, I know that didn’t happen by accident. I know that came from a parent who spent hours and hours and hours and hours and repeated those things over and over and over again. And when I read that entry, like it jumped out at me, just how you talked about, Hey, don’t forget to say thank you for every little thing, but just tell me where that comes from, and then how you try to impart those lessons on the kids in your program.

[00:15:08] Terrance “Munch” Williams: Yeah. I think, I think for me, the auditor, the thank you starts and ends with the concept. But people say it’s not what  it’s who you know. Right. And as you build in a network base, it’s always important to, to, to water those plants and get to know people and, and worship those relationships and extend those relationships for years upon years and time and just be respectful about it.

Right. And I think for me, it just, it became text messages that come through my phone and without a good morning or something that’s happening with a request and it’s no, there’s no greeting to it. Or whether it’s an adult, whether it’s a kid it’s just different people and I guess they tell you he’s the head that wears the crown, or you position yourself to be one of the, the big guys in this field that, that people just request things and don’t say the word thank you.

So I tend to say thank you. And then a couple buddies of mines, we used to joke about it like, Hey man, like. Hashtag just say thank you. Right? Like, it’s not, it’s not that complicated. It’s pretty simple. It goes a long way. And then we, we, we, we teach our guys as best we can to be like, Hey, you guys receive a lot of materialistic objects and praise and worship and attention and just, just different things.

Whether it’s a offer, whether it’s a pair of sneakers, whether it’s a backpack, just you guys are consistently getting things, whether it’s food on the road that you didn’t pay for, right? Like, Hey, just stop, stop for a second and say thank you. Right? Whether it’s the bus driver that just drove us six, seven hours to event, tell a man thank you.

Shake him in the, shake his hand. Look him in the eye, like, be a person, right? It’s before. Full basketball, like the reporter that’s, that’s trying to do an article on you, say, thank you. The person that did that, that tapped in with you to say, Hey man, here’s some words of wisdom. Say thank you. So it goes a long way.

And it’s just a matter of just not being rude. Right. And I think a lot of times we trying to, I’m learning it, we’re trying to teach it we’re trying to teach them how important it’s, and  sometimes for me, if somebody reaches out and doesn’t, doesn’t greet you with, hey.

Or if you finish, finish something that did a request for someone and they didn’t say thank you or  somebody could ask for something and you can deliver that thing through someone else, and that person never reached out to say thank you. You just remember in the back of your head like, this is not a person I want to get into this space with.

 I’ll do the thing, but I’m going to have to separate myself from that space. Right? So the art of thank you is honestly probably my favorite entry, right? Because it’s so simple in a sense, but it’s so powerful when you’re trying to teach people how to navigate this world that we’re living in.

Just regular world stuff, right? Open up the door, say thank you. Right? Someone does something nice for you. Say thank you.  someone takes up, we got a group of guys and  it’s 10 guys and we take them out to the say Cracker Barrel. And we finish the meal. And you don’t push a chair in, or you don’t tell a waitress a wait to thank you.

You don’t tell the staff thank you. Like that’s just rude, right? So we’re trying to teach you humanitarian, humanitarian traits to move forward in this space that up call life. So yeah, I think for me, that’s my favorite entry. That’s really my favorite entry.

[00:18:11] Mike Klinzing: It’s funny because we always talk about in our family, hey, in a lot of ways it doesn’t take that much to stand out, right?

Like saying, thank you, unfortunately, in this world today sets you apart in a way that it shouldn’t probably because it should be, as you said, more of a humanitarian issue that we all should be doing those things, but. The fact of the matter is, is that not everybody does do those things, and I think that you make a great point in who are the people that you want to do business with, who are the people that you want to interact with?

Who are the people that you’re going to have a mutual respect for? They are the people that say thank you. They are the people that are polite. They are the people that recognize when somebody’s doing something kind for them. It’s not just taking for granted. And I just, again, that one stood out to me just because there’s so many instances in my life, whether it being as a teacher or as a coach, or just as a human being of trying to impart that lesson to anybody that.

I’m trying to, that I’m trying to work with, right? It could be kids at basketball camp, it could be my students at school, it could be kids on my a a U teams that I’m coaching, whatever it might be. You’re trying to constantly get that message across and most importantly for me has always been my own kids, right?

It, and it, like I said earlier, you don’t take for granted, like, I’m sure, let’s put it this way, when your guys are doing that and they’re on the road, and so you’re interacting as a group with people and your guys are saying thank you, I can guarantee that people are having the conversation in the back room like, Hey man, those guys are doing something right, because we know that doesn’t happen.

That doesn’t happen by accident. Maybe you got one out of a hundred kids that just picks that up on their own, but the other 99, man, it takes somebody, it takes somebody giving that lesson over and over and over again and modeling it and letting them see it and mm-hmm. Man, it’s powerful stuff, right? It, it opens doors that I’m sure nobody, the amount of doors that it opens compared to what people think is the ratio there is crazy.

[00:20:21] Terrance “Munch” Williams: I mean, just look at our situation, right? Where you say, Hey, mu, thanks for coming on. Yep. But it’s really like, all right, well it’s two people having to think this situation, right? Thanks for having me on, right? Yeah. Like, you look at the first book, I remember a time when it was like, Hey thanks for promoting the book.

And then it turned into like, Hey would you mind me getting this to some of your guests? And you’re like, no, for sure. I’ll, I’ll knock it, I’ll help you do that. And me providing and you saying thank you and I’m saying thank you. So it’s just like a mutual respect thing, man. And I mean, sometimes we got situations, we got six, 11 guys who, who trying get an ec.

How are you going to talk to the young lady or man that’s in the front saying, Hey, is there any way for get. Do you not end that with a thank you. They just made your life better, right? Yeah. So yeah, like it’s, it’s, it’s one of them entries where most people might be like, that’s not that important to them.

I’d rather deal with how do you get a sneaker deal versus you can’t get a sneaker deal unless you know how to say thank you. You know what I mean? You need, you need to practice this thing. You know what I mean? So, yeah. That’s just one of those entries where I stand on. I really like it.

[00:21:23] Mike Klinzing: Alright. Tell me about another one that, that I really enjoyed was handler versus mentor.

Right? And you gave some Yeah. Some really good example. What’s your, what’s your favorite compare and contrast when you look at a situation where here’s a, here’s somebody who’s a handler versus here’s somebody who’s a mentor. What, what, which one jumps out at you?

[00:21:42] Terrance “Munch” Williams: I mean, I think I’ve, I’ve been able to deal with both of them in, in positive and negative lights, right?

I think it’s so simple for me where it’s like the mentor is trying to be of assistance. A giver in the space, right? The mentor is trying to help him or her navigate this space and be a joint venture to the, the high school, the aau, the trainer or whatever the people are that’s trying to help do the same thing, right?

The mentor not afraid to say no to, to the young man or woman. And then the handle is simply trying to figure out what can I get out of this space prior to the kid getting anything outta this space, right? Like one is a taker and one is a giver. And I don’t mean financially, I just mean just start with energy, right?

One is a giver of positive energy and one is a taker of energy. One is a, is, is is a drag down and one is a pick me up, right? So one is, is a higher and one is a lower. You know what I mean? So I just think they don’t, they don’t, neither one is malicious. I just think these people in different spaces at different times and they’re given life may, may find this space to be fruitful for themselves.

I know the difference between the two, and I just think ultimately you have to choose who you want to deal with, right? And kids have to learn that space of who, who do I want to be considered a mentor and who I want to be considered handle? Because they could get muddy water between them two titles, quote unquote.

But my thing is, what are you handling and what are you mentoring? And if your list of things that you’re handling is very long, then you’re doing a great job. But if it’s one or two things on the list, really not sure what, what the title is about, you know?

[00:23:27] Narrator: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:23:28] Terrance “Munch” Williams: No question. But you have to respect, you have to, the crazy thing is you have to respect both them entities, because deep down inside, they’re trying somehow some way to navigate, a way to do, man, sometimes you’re just going about it all wrong.

[00:23:47] Mike Klinzing: Tell me about growing a coaching staff. I think that when I talk to a a u people, right, and I talk to somebody who has their own a a U club, I talk to some people who are thinking about getting into the space. One of the biggest challenges, and I can even speak to this just from a basketball camp standpoint, how do you find and then mentor slash help those coaches to be at their best?

How do you build a coaching staff that, I think with the A A U people that I’ve talked to, that’s always the biggest challenge. How do I find good people that share the same vision that I do, that want to do the same thing for kids? And look, I could tell by the smile on your face that you know what a challenge that is.

So tell me, how do you go about doing that? What’s your process? What do you share in the book?

[00:24:35] Terrance “Munch” Williams: Yeah, my, my, my partner Justin always says, we got personnel problems, right? Like, like he always says that no matter what year, what year, what time, what day, it’s, we got personnel problems. And I think for us, as in particular super picky about who we bring in this environment, about who we allow around these kids of who we around allow around us as we got, as we’ve gotten older.

I think the first thing you’re looking for is character positive, positive character, role models people. That’s, that’s about education. Like whatever it is, your, your ethos is your, your, your why is like your in a sense your whatever you stand for, right? You try to find people that are that and try not to bend for talent, right?

And hey, I’m bringing this guy in, even though he’s a bad person, but he has this talent. It’s like, you can’t, you can’t do that. You can’t break, you can’t bend for that. You have to. So we try to find the right human before the right coach, right? And we stand on. Upstanding citizen. Not saying you can’t, people get into things, right?

But  what do they do with their daily life?  are they god-fearing? Are they are they consistent with with their marriage? Are they consistent with raising their kids if they have them just who are they as people? And then you could say, all right, well what does this person do really well?

Right? Like, you put them in spaces that they do really well. But we also start a lot of new people in the middle school sector where it’s like trial by error. You make some mistakes, it’s end the world. Kid is 12 years old. You know. Maybe you were late for lunch or something like that, or forgot the uniform, something, nothing.

Nothing too crazy. But ultimately you’re learning as you go and we can move you around from year to year. So like you show that maturity, you get somewhat quote unquote promoted, right? And spaces that are high stakes versus you bring someone in and say, Hey, listen man, just go for it. So we’re not, as far as PSA, we’re not searching for the person that’s consistently.

With the kids, are you going to be on time to practice and not smelling like liquor or smelling like alcohol, whatever it could be.  what are all of these negative things? Are you a, a, a, a, straight up adult first? Can you carry yourself as a man or as a woman? And, and just be consistent in that space.

I think that’s the thing you’re looking for. Like people that are passionate about the game, but more so passionate about young men and women and how to raise them. We go for that first. That’s our thing, right? And then we can teach and put you in places where you can learn the X and Os and learn strategies and learn, you know film watching and learn practice plans and the basketball stuff.

You can teach that, but I’m not sure you could teach somebody how to be a good person, right? So it takes a lot more time to teach you how to be a good person than it is to teach you a flex offense or a man to man. Shell drill. You know what I mean? So we try to go with, get the right people. Dedicated, they have visions of what they want.

Know that person’s why, try to help them find their why. Right? Doesn’t, don’t allow it to just be about the program. You have to make them 50 50, right? And you just find people that are, Hey, this is what we are. And then you have to be able to trust them. You have to be able to trust them, right? And because truth be told, you’re sharing your real lifetime that you can’t get back with these men and women in that space.

So it’s very important that whoever you’re around, you could just know, like, Hey, they’re responsible with other, with kids. If they’re supposed to handle things, they’re going to handle those things. And if not, they have to accept the constructive criticism. They have to accept the consequences, or you have to remove them from this, from this space that you call home.

So I think for us is you consistently growing the staff, but ultimately you also have to, what I learned is you have to check in with the staff because they’re, they’re growing too, right? Like the, the, the guy that was cool with driving the. Wants to be the 16 U head coach now. Right. And if you don’t tap in and check in to see what’s this person’s temperature or what’s has this person why changed in the last year or so, you’re going to have a disgruntled person next to you and they might not voice it, but their actions will show so fun and ways to have, you know.

Exit meetings at the end of the summer or mid luncheon in the middle of the winter or just zoom calls, phone calls, text messaging, tapping into constantly. And I’m not perfect at it clearly, but understanding the person and what they have going on. And then you also have to have people that are chameleon and they have to be able to be versatile, move from different, different spaces because their life changes.

Like I know guys who are single, then they married, then they have a kid, then they have a house, a car. So their life is constantly changing every year, which means their roles have to kind of change also. And then you also meet people that are challenge, want to challenge themselves. So you allow the space to say, Hey, do you want to teach a financial literacy class?

Cool. Do you want to. I know you don’t want to be into the traveling every week, but do you want to do, do alumni affairs, right? I know you don’t want to deal with the middle school a ton, but do you want to deal with finances and, and the fundraising element and create something in that space? Somebody that’s not somewhat, somebody that could be somewhat of an introvert.

Once you learn their personality, you say all, well, you want to deal with the social media, right? And that, that’s kind of like, you don’t have to talk to a bunch of people, right? You can deal with Instagram, you can deal with Twitter, you can deal with the website, whatever you want. Have a person in that. But learning how to kind of like, not force people to do something and I had to learn trial by error.

You can’t force this person to do it. They’re going to give you 50% versus put them in a pocket where they can be a star, right? So finding people, finding them in spaces where they can be a star, will ease up the pain for the, the person that’s in quote unquote some level charge. You know what I mean? The face, the figurehead of the, of the organization.

But there’s literally no difference Then. Somebody running a corporate 500 company, right? The CEO has to make these same decisions, and that’s what, that’s what I’m, I’m tasked with right? In, in my, in my close ones.

[00:30:33] Mike Klinzing: Ultimately, you’re hiring for character and then training within the job, right? So if you have a good person, boom, then whatever knowledge they bring in that particular area, you can continue to grow them in that area and then allow them to expand, as you said.

Mm-hmm. As they go forward and as they prove themselves and you gain trust in them and they gain trust in you, and the process keeps moving on. And before you know it, they’re able to advance in areas where they want to advance. And I mean, that’s really what it’s all about when it comes to developing people.

And it doesn’t matter whether it’s basketball, whether it’s life, business, whatever it might be, you’re, you’re hiring for their character and then getting them in the right position in the job, and then they grow and learn. And that’s, again, that’s how you build a first class, first class organization without question.

Yeah.

[00:31:20] Terrance “Munch” Williams: We, we, quality versus quantity. We shorten stature, but powerful and hard. You know what I mean? Like, we don’t, we don’t have 50 staff members. We just got enough to get, get everything done that we need to get done, and we all working our tail off,

[00:31:32] Mike Klinzing: you know? All right. Anybody, anybody reading this book who reads the entry about cell phones while traveling Much is going to, is is going to say themselves, all right.

How do these guys pull this off? How do they get players to get off their phones to interact? Young people today, we know that a lot of the ways that they communicate is through their phone. And we know that a lot of times you can go and sit on any court anywhere in America and there’s a break in whatever action is going on and what immediately happens, right?

Everybody pulls out the phone, they’re staring at the phone instead of interacting with one another. So tell me a little bit about the cell phone policy, where it came from and just how you get guys to buy into that.

[00:32:17] Terrance “Munch” Williams: Yeah, I. At this point, you have to have proof in the data, right? That it works. And why? You have to have a, why.

You have to explain it to ’em. You have to be upfront with them, especially when you’re recruiting them to, to be a board. You have to tell them, Hey, this is the one thing you’re not going to like. There’s been growth in that area, like 2014 with Chris McCullough and Conrad Chamber, Shavar Newt, those guys at day, at day 17 U season, giving their phones up the entire weekend.

It went in book

Also explain. You are here to chase your dream down, right? You’re here because you’re trying to minimize distractions. So we’re looking at that. And then we’re also looking at sleep habits, right? Like when you have the phone and then we’re looking what time are you going to bed? Are you staying up?

Are you on the phone? Then we go further into it with the space of like, Hey, cool. The people that’s constantly calling you and what information are they inundating your mind with? It’s a lot of selfish conversations. Shoot more, pass less. Do this more. Do that more. Forget what the coach say, da da, da. You getting you got a laundry list of people trying to communicate with you while you’re trying to chase your dream, while you’re trying to listen to the coaches staff.

That’s pretty difficult, right? So. And then when you look at an agenda of what we have to get done, you know you’re doing ice baths, you’re doing study halls, you’re doing meditation time, you’re doing morning workouts in the morning with, whether it’s yoga, whether it’s the pool run. You’re doing breakfast, lunch, dinner, you’re playing one or two basketball games, you’re doing film study of the teams Sky Reports.

You don’t have as much time as you really believe. So aside from like the music that you want, you know when you go into the game and honestly in music, right game. I mean, you have to contact your parents and your family to say, Hey, I made it safe. So we stopped taking the phones, pre getting to the hotel.

So we let, when they land, when they land or we get to a certain location, you’re, you’re required to contact your people to say, Hey, we landed. So they’re not calling the, the coaches’ phones and the director’s phones. And then you get a time slot in which you have the phones. So pre, Hey listen, I’m getting nine turn.

But we all know blue light, green light, whatever light they want to call it. When you, when you up at night, we all know the social media doesn’t have a off switch or on switch. It’s a 24 hour mechanism, right? We know that the phone is constantly being used, so we need to eliminate that. So now when the parents are saying, Hey, why is my son look to tired?

We don’t have to say the son stayed up on the phone all night long, right? So the other good thing is we give the parents the agenda. They know what time the kid’s going to have the phone, they could communicate with their kid. Your worst case is always, Hey coach, can I call my mom or dad real quick? Find your phone.

You got the green light to do that. But we’re trying to make this about the business, right? Like eliminate all distractions, lock in for two days, get the most out of the experience, and the minute the game is over at the end, you got your phone back and you get a chance to be a normal high school kid and enjoy your phone in the airport, at the restaurant, whatever, for the rest of the rest of the time.

So getting there, you got your phone leaving there, you got your phone in the middle of that, you have to lock into the business. You have to have to lock into the business. So that’s been working. I mean, for us, we’ve definitely lost some kids who, who we wanted that were like, I’m not ready for that. I’m not doing it.

I’m too young. But we also have the data to show like, hey, if you call any of these guys, the 12 guys that went to the NBA in the last 10, 11 years, they’ll tell you, I gave it my cell phone too. If you speak to any of those eight or nine McDon Americans, they’re going to tell you, yeah, I gave it my cell phone.

So you have to have the data to show like, this could work and we’re not bending, right. You have to have the confidence to not change that. Like you can move a lot of things around, but certain things you have to just stand on for, for your own culture. And that’s one of those,

[00:36:06] Mike Klinzing: yeah, that confidence, I think is key, right?

And when you got data to back it up, and when you have a track record, it makes it a lot simpler to be able to say, Hey, this is what’s worked in the past. Here’s why it worked. Here’s guys who it worked for. And that’s all powerful stuff, right? That you can then point to when you’re talking to families, when you’re talking to guys, when you’re doing that recruiting piece, you can give them some reasons of, Hey, here’s why we do it, and here’s the results of it.

And that gets you in the right direction. And again, as you said, and it’s put throughout the book several times, right? It’s a, it’s a, it’s a business trip, right? We’re here, we’re here to accomplish something. When we go, whether playing a tournament or when we’re traveling together, whatever it might be.

And so when you have that ability to be able to back it up with the data, with the history of what you guys have been able to do, then you’re going to get to some buy. And obviously as you said, you might lose a kid or two, but in the long run you can’t afford to sacrifice what it is that you’re doing in order just to be able to attract a particular, a particular talent.

Another entry I like mu much was fake offers versus real offers. And I think that’s one that there’s a lot of people out there that even if you just hear that title. You may say, well, what’s a fake offer? What’s a real offer? What’s the difference? And then you took it even a step further of, Hey, how can I utilize each of those particular offers to sort of steer myself in the right direction of what I want to ultimately accomplish?

So first of all, for people who maybe don’t understand the difference between a fake offer and a real offer, just share what the difference is between the two, and then talk a little bit about how you can kind of work the system to have both of those work in your favor to help. To help help a player.

[00:37:51] Terrance “Munch” Williams: Yeah, I mean, I think the fake offer is simple. It’s, it’s someone telling you, Hey, you have this offer, but you didn’t really get the clarification or the commitment or the, or the, or the  certification from the head coach of that, that said university, right? You, someone just told you, maybe it’s your, your high school coach, your hand, whoever wants to tell you this information and say, Hey, you have an offer from say, Brooklyn.

That’s the lowest level of that. The second level is probably that coach just saying, or assistant coach saying, Hey, yeah, you have an offer with no, no pun intended, of you being able to actually use that offer. If you went the next day and tried to commit, then they wouldn’t accept it. They might stop answering the phone.

They might go dark as they say, catfish you, or whatever the case may be. Right? So with that is that being said it doesn’t stand and it’s not real, but what, in this generation of, of attention being a drug, most people want these offers and they, and they’ll go all the way out to say, I’ll take a fake one, a real one, just gimme something to keep me, keep my my adrenaline pumping.

So I think that’s a fake offer. The real offer is, is literally, hey, college coach, head coach contacts you to say, listen kid Johnson, we want to offer University of Cincinnati. Whenever you decide to commit to University of Cincinnati, we’ll accept your, your commitment. And that’s legitimate, right?

You go and you commit, and eventually you sign your papers and you move on. So that’s the difference between a real, real offer and a fake offer. I mean, they both have some value as you understand the systematic approach to this stuff. Which is cool. I think the, the thing for me is, hey, if you’re going to have these offers, then make it.

Make it known to the family, right? Like, Hey listen, if we get a fake offer from these three universities that’s in the same conference as of the university that you actually want, maybe it could generate the attention for set university to feel some type of like anxiety to get involved with that particular kid.

Right? And now you are kind of trying to find a way to manipulate the system to actually get the kid in the family what they, what they desire. Right? And that’s just a different way of going about it. I’ve seen it work. And now the kid gets that university and he’s able to, to commit to that university, right?

So sometimes the, the, the schools are cool enough to let you do that, just to help you out in your journey. And sometimes, you know it’s better. I think it’s a better way of going about it. If you’re going to use these offers. Just be honest with the kid, especially later on in their years, right? If you’re a senior and you’re trying to make sure that you get something, you could say, Hey, listen man, we going to get these three fake offers.

We going to publicize it. The schools are going to see it. You might get another two schools, but those three are off the table. You could pick from these two. These are not real. And the kids should be mature enough and the family should be mature enough to understand the strategy behind it. Because defines the means then you win right?

End.

You’re doing whatever you could do to help that, that kid and said, family versus the fake offer has you in the dark. You think for these years I have these offers and the way schools are moving and coaches are moving, you don’t have that offer. That coach leaves these coaches leaving three times removed from the said university that you got as a freshman, right.

And all of this, because when you really dig deep, it’s, it’s not the the people that’s giving you the offer fake offers for, it’s the, your need and desire for this attention of these, of just this thing that you can tweet or you can text about whatever it is, right? Because you’re not going to use it as a freshman, you’re not going to use it as a sophomore and the tweet goes up or the Instagram post goes up and five minutes later.

It’s done. And once again, that high comes down and someone has to come back and not, not to sound like a drug dealer, you have to come back and find a way to give that, that said situation another high. So what’s the quickest way? A fake offer. A pacify, you calm them down for a second, they stop crying, and then you move on to, to things that are important versus taking the time to explain to them the real life situation of this.

Like, why is this so important to you as a 14-year-old kid, other than the tension, that’s all you’re looking for right now, because you’re not going to use this. You know? So yeah, that, that’s an interesting entry because I think people would have so much argument over fake offers are bad, real offers are good, versus, okay.

How do you manage both of these situations in this culture? And how would it, how does it benefit? Said kid versus harm, said kid. Because it can really harm you if you believe as a senior, Hey, I got all them offers as a freshman and a sophomore, I have these offers. But because you’ve never communicated, right, like the system doesn’t, says you can’t speak to the kid can’t speak to the, to the coach until June 15th of their sophomore year.

Now, if you got five fake fake offers when June fifteens come and that all of those coaches have led those left, those schools, you’re wondering, why didn’t those coaches call you? You didn’t have the offer, buddy. And they’re gone. Right? So it’s just like you tabling and  back dating drama for later versus trying to settle down and actually be honest and teach them, Hey, this is what’s going on with your recruitment and this is how we can make sure that we help you.

Are you, are you cool with this? Are you not cool with this? Because if not, we just have to try something else, A different strategy. But I can’t just keep on supplying you with these fake offers all day. Yeah. You need, you know what I mean?

[00:43:16] Mike Klinzing: Exactly. What jumped out at me from that entry was. The idea that you can, through your understanding of the system that you can utilize, what could potentially be a negative to a kid in a family that doesn’t understand the process or doesn’t understand what those offers mean or don’t mean?

Mm-hmm. That it can get very confused. It could end up putting them in a bad spot, but because you have an understanding of how to utilize the system, you can actually turn what could be a negative into a positive that can help a kid. And I found that piece to be pretty interesting. And again, for anybody who’s in a position similar to what you’re in, trying to help a kid to get to college and get a scholarship or get an opportunity to play at the next level, to be able to understand what that means and how to utilize the system in a positive way to help the family and help the kid.

There was just tremendous value in that. Helping. Again, it helped me to understand, okay, here’s a way that we can look at what those offers really mean, what they don’t mean, and then how can we use them to help the kid ultimately? So I thought that was a really powerful, a powerful entry in the book for, for a family or a kid or, or an aide director to, to really understand.

Thank you. Bus business side of things. Talk to me about budgeting. I know one of the things that jumped out at me from, from that chapter is you have to put somebody in that position that you trust. Obviously they’re, they’re handling, they’re handling your money, but just talk to me about how you kind of grew from when you started out to where you are now in terms of being able to, to handle the budget, to be able to understand the budget.

What’s somebody who either already has an existing a a u program or is thinking about starting one? What do they need to know about budgeting?

[00:45:07] Terrance “Munch” Williams: Yeah. I mean, I mean, first thing about budgeting is you, you never have enough money. And, and what I mean by that is shout out to my guy, Justin Ware. He handles our budget.

We go out and raise, but he’s the, he’s the, he’s the guy that’s like, no, you can’t buy that. You can’t do that. You can’t, like, I remember saying, Hey, I want to go to USA basketball, right? And we have like three or four guys at like mini camp and it’s October. And he’s like, yeah, you can go, but in April you might be missing a hotel room.

Right? And it’s like, he’s not telling you what you could do, but he’s giving you the hint, right? So I think first, first level of business with, with budgeting is, hey, you have to consistently fundraise. You have to have money left over. You have to have money rollover, you have to have a funding system of this flights are going to change.

 hotel fees are going to change.  you have to have some level of understanding for the economy, right? Like, hey, you know what I mean? COVID came. Things were one way COVID left. Things are a different way flights the gas and the flights go up, right? Oil goes up. That stuff makes things up.

So having someone that’s disciplined, having someone that can not afraid leader. Like this is their department, right? And if your department is to bring the money in, then their department is to balance the money. You also have to have somebody that’s smart and they can you understand points for hotels, you understand points for flights, you understand time and, and when things are higher versus lower, you understand what you can get outstanding sim the same, same hotel over and over and over for years to come.

So you have somebody that’s very intelligent with, with balancing that, that that budget and not being able to just throw it away, right? Like being smart. You also have to have long-term, a long-term thinker, so someone that can get you to. The finish line of July when it’s like, hold on, we’re spending a little bit in March or April because they know that you’re going to spend x amount of dollar in July.

Right? Like you might, your heavy time might be, hey, you might be spending a hundred grand in July with three, four teams down in a, down in the location for 10 plus days. But they understand  petty cash, they understand incidentals, they understand, hey, you’re going to mess up three or four flights just because of things that happen.

So you just have to have, that’s what I mean about putting somebody in an area that they can specialize in and allowing them to do their job and trusting that person, right? I mean, you have to trust the person with, with obviously your, your your account information and stuff like that. So I wouldn’t put someone there that you think isn’t financially stable themselves.

Right. Like, I think we’ve lucky enough to know like, Hey, this, this, this balancing act that we’re doing, we need to make sure that this is. Done correctly. And I mean, obviously you’re getting audited, you know what I mean? So everything, everything with the non-for-profit world, you’re going to get audited. I mean, everything is data based.

It’s on the credit card. You have to have somebody that’s not hungry for money and going to buy liquor with it. So you don’t have to run into those, those disasters. But I think first order of business is knowing that you have to consistently keep bringing money in. You have to understand your holistic schedule and everything that comes with it, right?

And I’m talking about recruiting in, in October. I’m talking about visiting kids in, in November, I’m talking about attending a, a high school graduation. I’m talking, going to visit your, your college alumni. All of this is in the budget that costs money. So you have to have a 12 month calendar of what’s being spent versus, hey, I’m only looking at it from these four months of grassroots competition to run a holistic business, a holistic entity.

It’s a 12 month entity. So you have to be careful on how you spending money, whether it’s rental cars or you taking recruits out to dinner and you spend psych, you have to be careful, right? You, you have to be smart about it. So scheduling is important. So yeah, you got, and the director needs to be able to work hand in hand with the person that’s in charge of the funds and how to delegate that because I have to hear the word no.

And he has to hear the word yes for things that I need to get done

hands. That helps you make decisions. I hope that answers your question.

[00:49:26] Mike Klinzing: It does. I mean, I think that one of the things that I took away from it both in the book and your answer is you have to be, have somebody in that position who’s willing to say no to the director, which clearly isn’t always easy to say no to your quote unquote boss.

Like, Hey, yeah, we can’t really, we can’t really do that. It, it takes, it’s not easy. That’s not always easy to do. So to have somebody in the right position to be able to do that obviously is, is very important. Take this one step further, and you talked a couple times about you have to keep fundraising. So tell me a little bit about how you guys fundraise.

If you had to recommend to somebody out there who, again, is trying to raise money, even, let’s just try, let’s just say they’re trying to go on one trip where they’re going to get a, a team and put ’em on an airplane. What’s the best way that you found? How do you, how do you raise money? What’s the best way to do it?

[00:50:16] Terrance “Munch” Williams: I’m be honest, the best way you could do it is, is you need to have a gala. You need to have a gala, like. At the end of the day, if you know a lot of people and people that  know people I mean once every couple years, it’s a, it’s a good heavy dosage of, of income at the same time that you could stretch out for as long as you can.

I mean, obviously you could do go funnels. Obviously you could do high school events, college  middle school events. Those are shorter doses. But I think the most successful one has been, hey, do a gala. Showcase your, your student athlete, showcase the program. Let ’em know what the money has been utilized for.

And I would recommend don’t do another one until you have more data to show where the funds went. Right? Yeah. Like even if you have to open up your, your bank book to show the balance of where these funds went, a spreadsheet of, Hey, X amount of hotels, X amount of flights, X amount of food, you knows, these are the numbers so that people can see it.

If you can get to that. That would be a great tool to have. As, I mean, we’ve done candy sales to raffle tickets, to car washes, to gala, to galas, to, to, to shoot at ths. Like a lot of this type of stuff. But I think in the space of once you get to high school expectations turns from people that are paying to, Hey, we, we expect not to pay for our kid to play here.

So now you need to have the revenue stream in collaboration with quote unquote the sneaker deal. If you don’t have that, but the best advice is, hey, can you do a gala every few years? And can you have the proof and the pudding that whatever these people are donating, that money’s going to work, especially in college commitments.

Right. You gave us 30 grand and in the last three years we put 30 kids in college. Yeah. Right. Like, wow. Like that people could see like, oh, this money’s actually working, right? You gave us 10 grand, but we put another five kids in, in this thing. Or we sent these kids to this camp and that led to this.

So having the information is very important to see, show them what they money did as opposed to like, Hey, I took all this money and there was no difference. Did you do a job ready program? Did you do a re a resume building program? Did you do a summer job program? Like, what are the things you want to do with the funds?

Like I said, I think that’s the, the most successful way that I’ve seen so far has been that space. And everything else is kind of like just.

[00:52:33] Mike Klinzing: Impact, right? I mean, you’re trying to demonstrate impact and that impact the

[00:52:37] Terrance “Munch” Williams: book is a fundraiser.

[00:52:38] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, exactly. There you go. Yeah, no question. I mean, no question.

Exactly. And I mean the book, I mean, how many entries does the book cover, right? You’re talking about budgeting. You’re talking about fundraising, you’re talking about marketing, you’re talking about, I mean, there’s a million different ways that the book helps to serve the greater purpose of what you’re trying to do, which gets back to what I said right off the top, which is I think when I read the book and when I think about what you’ve done and how you’ve done it, I just think about the impact that you’re having holistically on the coaches and the adults that are a part of your organization.

I’m talking about the kids that are part of your organization, that you’re getting them an opportunity to get an education and play college basketball. Talking about the families and being able to educate them. Like I know one of the entries you talked about, just being able to fill out the NCAA paperwork and helping kids with college applications and the things that are maybe taken for granted in some circles, but man, to be able to provide that, especially again in your case where you’ve gone through and you’ve done it hundreds of times, it becomes second nature.

Whereas to a family who maybe they’re going through that for the first time, it’s really easy, right? To get confused. It’s really easy not to understand the recruiting process. All these things that you’re kind of wrapping your arms around a kid and their family to give ’em more than just basketball.

You’re trying to impact their life as a whole, and I know that. As I read the book, one of the things that comes across to me so strongly when I think about what you guys do and what you as an individual do compared to maybe other groups, other people, is just the amount of time that you’re investing in your program, but also just your people.

Mm-hmm. And I feel like there aren’t that many people who are willing to go that extra mile that you talked about going to have lunch with kids at their school. You’re talking about going to visit your alums. You’re talking about just spending time with people’s families. You’re talking about hiring a tutor to be able to help the kid with school.

You’re, you’re just finding all this time that’s investing in. People. And I think if there was one thing, at least from a standpoint of, not necessarily on the business side of the au, but when I think about the program and what you’re trying to accomplish, I just kept coming back to Man Munch is putting in a ton of time investing in the kids in this program.

And I know you know this, but for our audience who many of them know this as well, whenever I talk to college coaches especially, but coaches on every, any level, right? They talk about, they talk about relationships, right? They talk about I have to get to know the kid. I have to be able to know, have that kid know that I care about them as more than just a basketball player.

And once I have that, then I can even, I can get more out of them as a player ’cause they know I care. I can push ’em a little bit more. And as I read through each of the entries in the book, I kept coming back to like, there can’t be a kid in the program who turns around and looks and says, man Munch and his group isn’t, I.

Giving me everything that they have. I mean, you’re just, you’re giving kids everything that you have. And to me, when I look at the blueprint of what you do, and I look at this book and I think, man, if we could get everybody to go about it in this way, not only would we produce better basketball players and talent, but we would produce better people and better people who are able to then contribute to society.

And again, I just think that the amount of time, just talk about the amount of time you’re putting in to, to, to this whole thing. It, it’s crazy, man.

[00:56:30] Terrance “Munch” Williams: Man, listen, it’s, it’s a lot of sweat equity, man. Like, I tell people, man, I think the way we’ve approached this space has created a lot of full-time jobs for other AAU directors and coaches like to keep up with this type of journey that we on.

Absolutely. You just have to be a fulltime and I mean, to, to sum it up, man, I want.  people tell you to leave this space better than you found it. Right? And for me, as, as, as I start to navigate my way out and, and walk away, at some point you drop the mic, but you also want to be able to leave something behind for the next month for the next mic, right?

Like, you want to be able to say, Hey man, listen, ultimately I gave you something to, to, to, to structurally look at, to before you jumped in that hot water, right? It’s a lot of trial by error. And I think to your point, this book does become the, the, Hey, go, go there and look at entry 12 for that. Go there, go look at entry 15 for that and go, go.

It doesn’t make, it doesn’t do the work for you, but it gives you some type of sample of like, Hey, this could be, this is coming. And when it does make sure you know this part too, right? Like you take over a big task, you need to know all the elements that’s coming about it, right? And I think that’s the one thing I tried to accomplish, like, not.

Pages to read, but just try to give you every, some of the stuff that I’m seeing in this space that we’re all living in, whether it’s agents, financial advisors, management companies, college coaches, high school coaches, media people, trainers, like we’re all walking this, this, this, this, this plank and we’re trying to figure out what’s the best way and we have to work together.

But I just think that when people pick that book up, they’re going to be like, like you said, like, holy shit, these dudes are doing all of this. Yep. And it’s like, yes, this isn’t just, we got on the court in Cincinnati and won three games. It’s a lot of pre and it’s a lot of post work that’s consistent for seven days.

And like you said, you can’t drop the ball. So I do pray that a lot of people pick this up, whether, whether they have to get it in hands for free, whether they have to.

This environment, right? To this culture, to, it’s not just about psa. Like I feel comfortable about who we are and what we stand for and what people view us as. For the most part, this is about the rest of the people that’s in it with us, right? Like, hey, these guys work extremely hard and maybe they do 75% of what we do, but that’s a lot.

And maybe some do 65 and some do 50. But, and whether it’s a high school coach or trainer, they’re doing a lot of their own stuff. They can, they can write their own book of 54 entries, to be honest. I’m sure they can. So it’s a lot going on that a lot of people are not privy to. So we don’t have this, this literature like in this space.

So this can become, it’s not a Bible, but this can become the, the thing that you go back to, to say, you know what? I got a question. Lemme, lemme go see what’s in that book. And at that entry and somebody’s talking about reclassification. Lemme see what this guy thought about that. Right? So I’m excited, man.

I’m excited about it.

[00:59:33] Mike Klinzing: And you should be. And. To anybody who wants to pick up the book. Anybody who is involved in the basketball space in any capacity. I think if you’re a high school coach, I think this is a tremendous resource to be able to understand what the a a u side of the business looks like. I think it’s also a great way to understand what should I be looking for in a a u basketball for my players.

If I’m a high school coach, I think if I’m a family and I’m a parent and I read this book, I’m going to look at it and I may have to reevaluate where I want my son or daughter to play my a a u basketball. If I’m an a a U director, I may read this and say, man, I don’t know if I can keep up with Munch and all the stuff that he’s doing, but maybe I can pick and choose and say, Hey.

Maybe this academic piece is something that I could try, or maybe it’s the cell phone piece or maybe it’s the nutrition. Look, you and I both know that and the nutrition one jumped out at me. ’cause I just think I’ve been on the road so many times with my own kids and teams and whatever and  you’re, you’re in between games and people are like the moms are trying to organize which, what restaurant are we going to go to?

Yeah. This and that. And then you got, you got four kids over there eating chicken wings and  they’re m this kid, yeah. This kid’s eating, this kid’s eating a double cheeseburger and drinking, like a, drinking, like a pitch. A pitcher. Pitcher of pitcher of Pepsi and then, then they have to play like an hour later and then they play terrible and everybody’s look, everybody’s looking around.

It’s funny. I remember one time, this was when my son was in, lost the

[01:01:16] Narrator: Game Corps started.

[01:01:16] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. Like my son was in like, man, he was in like fifth grade and now he would just, he’ll be a sophomore in college next year. And we, we were playing in this tournament and for some reason the parents just. In between games.

We had maybe, like, we had like a three hour break. I see. And the, and the parents arranged, we went to this went to this restaurant. The kids just all, they were all eating hamburgers and french fries and whatever. And we came back and we played the worst game game lunch we ever played. We ever played.

And I remember being so mad, telling my wife, I’m like, I can’t believe we, I can’t believe we went to this stupid restaurant. We had these kids eating all this stuff. And she’s like, oh, relax. I’m like, no. Like they can’t, like, I’m like, you can’t do that. So again, that’s something that not a lot of people think about.

’cause a lot of times, right, you’re, you’re on the road, you’re just trying to grab whatever you can grab in between games and  you’re talking about, Hey, we want to make sure that we got our guys we, we got what they need nutritionally. And you talked about the water in the coaches’ rooms and just having that stuff available so that they’re not making bad choices.

And again, that’s one of those almost to me, like, can we get 1% better? Can we get 1%? Can we get 1% better? And so I guess my, my overall point here is that there’s so many good things in here for high school coaches, a AAU directors, players, parents, that you can just pick stuff up that Yeah, maybe you can’t recreate the entire process.

Yeah. But you’ve got, divided by entries. I think there’s so many things that you could just, Hey, I can grab this one and let’s try this. Hey, I can grab this one. Let’s try that. And so for that, I think it’s just, again, I think it’s just a tremendously valuable book. Munch. I loved reading it ’cause it gave me a window into the way you think, the way your process works.

And like I said, I came away with it thinking holistically how much you care about the kids that you’re working with every day. And then again, just the amount of time that you’re spending making this thing what it is. I mean, kudos to you for doing it, man.

[01:03:15] Terrance “Munch” Williams: Thank you. I mean, I hope you quote me on this, man, because I promise you.

Anyone in the basketball space, in some type of capacity. You must have this book and read it as much as you want. And if you do not enjoy it to some capacity, please contact me and get your 20 bucks back, like I promise you. That’s how I know, that’s how much I know. Like you said, there’s something in there for everybody.

If you are in this space, there’s something in there that’s worth 20 bucks in there for everybody. So, however you have to quote me on that, feel free.

[01:03:57] Mike Klinzing: It’s going in the show notes. I’m, I’m already formulating it in my mind. So here it is. Buy. Here are the answers. Spend your 20 bucks. If you don’t like it, here’s Munch’s as email, phone number, whatever.

[01:04:10] Mike Klinzing: Send it, send it, right? Send it right to him. Tell him, Hey man, I want my, I want my money back. Because he promises to give you back your money, man. He’s cool, but trust, test this out. You know what I mean? Seriously, this is good. Well, hey, munch, again, I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to come on and talk about the book One more time.

The book is, here are the Answers, A Roadmap for Navigating Success in the Business of Youth Basketball. There is just a ton of great information in there for anybody in the basketball space. And after you read it, you’ll come away extremely impressed with what Munch is doing has done and is going to continue to do.

And you’re going to get some things that you can take away that maybe you can’t duplicate everything in the book, but if you can grab one or two things to make what you do in the basketball space better, it’s worth it. And hey. You got a $20 guarantee from Munch himself if you don’t like the book. So please go out, pick up a copy Amazon, wherever you buy books, you can find it again.

Here are the answers. Munch. Can’t thank you enough for jumping out with us tonight. Really appreciate you as always. I always love our conversations. I’m honored that you’re a part of the Hoop Heads pod family and that you were a part of our thousandth episode. And if we get to 2000, you’ll be back for that one for sure, man.

And again, just I’m proud to call you my friend, man, and I appreciate all you’re doing for the basketball world, man.

[01:05:37] Terrance “Munch” Williams: Thank you, man. Enjoy your night. I appreciate you having me. And guess what? Thank you.

[01:05:41] Mike Klinzing: You got it. Thank you. Alright, thanks everyone out there for listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.

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[01:06:43] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Hoop Heads Podcast presented by Head Start Basketball.