TRAMEL BARNES – SOUTH DAKOTA STATE MENS’ BASKETBALL ASSISTANT COACH – EPISODE 1077

Website – https://gojacks.com/sports/mens-basketball

Email – Tramel.Barnes@sdstate.edu

Twitter/X – @TramelBarnes

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Tramel Barnes is a men’s basketball assistant coach at South Dakota State University under Head Coach Eric Henderson. This is Barnes’ second stint as an assistant with the Jackrabbits having also served under Henderson from 2019-21. 
 
 Barnes spent three seasons from 2021-2024 at the University Utah on the coaching staff led by Craig Smith. He’s served as a director of player personnel and assistant coach for the Utes. Barnes had previously worked with Smith during the 2018-19 season at Utah State where he served as director of basketball operations and player development. The NABC recognized Barnes for his efforts and named him to the 2019 Under Armour 30-Under-30 Team.
 
Barnes began his coaching career at Southwest Minnesota State in 2013 after a four-year collegiate career capped by two seasons with the Mustangs. He spent six seasons on the SMSU coaching staff.

On this episode Mike & Tramel discuss the challenges posed by the transfer portal and the necessity for genuine connectivity within teams. They delve into the significance of building enduring relationships with players and their families, emphasizing the qualitative aspects that extend beyond mere athletic prowess. Coach Barnes reflects on his diverse experiences across various levels of competition, underscoring the importance of adaptability in a profession characterized by continual change. This episode hits on coaching philosophy, personal growth, and the overarching influence of integrity and community in shaping successful basketball programs.

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Be sure to have your notebook handy as you listen to this episode with Tramel Barnes, men’s basketball assistant coach at South Dakota State University.

What We Discuss with Tramel Barnes

• How growing up in a small town fostered a strong community around sports
• The importance of long-term friendships formed through youth sports
• Why coaches play a significant role in shaping a player’s love for the game
• The challenges of maintaining team connectivity amidst the frequent player transfers have significantly intensified in recent years, requiring innovative approaches from coaching staff
• An emphasis on relationship-building with recruits begins as early as their sophomore year, allowing for a deeper understanding of both players and their families
• Coaches must adapt to the evolving landscape of college basketball, where the transfer portal has transformed recruitment dynamics and team composition
• Why coaches need to prioritize work-life balance, ensuring that staff members are able to engage with their families while still fulfilling professional obligations
• The importance of genuine communication and honesty within a team is underscored by the necessity of addressing issues proactively rather than reactively
• Building a strong culture starts with authenticity and surrounding yourself with good people
• Being open to learning from diverse experiences and individuals can greatly enrich one’s coaching philosophy and approach to player development
• Observing players in various competitive settings reveals their adaptability to different roles and influences recruitment decisions
• Player evaluation extends beyond skill assessment; coaches must consider character, teamwork, and the ability to handle adversity when recruiting
• Continuous learning and adapting are vital for personal and professional growth in coaching
• Preparation for head coaching roles involves taking notes and gathering insights from various sources

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High school and middle school basketball program directors, listen closely. Coaches are expected to do far more than just coach. You know this. It doesn’t matter if you’re doing the coaching yourself, or you have a full staff of coaches with you. You know very well that coaches handle scheduling, academic issues, parent communication, leadership development, and even mental health concerns for athletes. A lot to deal with, and they haven’t even gone home yet to balance those responsibilities.

No matter the passion for the game, and burning desire to help athletes develop, this level of responsibility can lead to burnout, inefficiency, and less time spent on actual coaching. You know it’s true.

When coaches are stretched too thin, it impacts the development of athletes, team morale, and the overall success of the program. Now here comes the outsiders throwing their two cents in about what’s happening. Then come the parents complaining about how you’re running things, as if they know what they’re talking about. When’s the last time you went to their place of work chiming in from outside their window?

Before you let that fire fizzle out, know that it doesn’t have to be that complicated. There are several ways to prevent you or your coaches from feeling overwhelmed. However, I’ll tell you one of our favorite ways to keep coaches firing on all cylinders, and that’s athlete-driven accountability and organization.

Instead of coaches constantly reminding players about assignments, grades, and practice schedules, our programs at Playmaker Planner puts the responsibility back on the athletes. By tracking their own academics, goals, and commitments, student-athletes become more self-sufficient, which of course allows the coach to put their babysitter hat in the closet, and put their coaching hat back on, allowing them to focus on what they love doing.

Are we offering planners that you can get at the dollar store as a solution? Of course not, but we are starting a conversation with you to see if our programs can be a compliment to what you’re already doing. Let’s find out. To learn more visit https://playmakerplanner.com/stop-is-this-for-you

THANKS, TRAMEL BARNES

If you enjoyed this episode with Tramel Barnes let him know by clicking on the link below and thanking him via Twitter.

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And if you want us to answer your questions on one of our upcoming weekly NBA episodes, drop us a line at mike@hoopheadspod.com.

TRANSCRIPT FOR TRAMEL BARNES – SOUTH DAKOTA STATE MENS’ BASKETBALL ASSISTANT COACH – EPISODE 1077

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight. But I am pleased to be joined by Tramel Barnes, men’s basketball assistant coach at South Dakota State University. Tramel, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod

[00:00:15] Tramel Barnes: Mike. Appreciate it, man. Thanks for having me on.  Excited to be here and excited to chat with for a little bit.

[00:00:20] Mike Klinzing: Thrilled to have you on. Looking forward to diving into all the things you’ve been able to do in your career. Let’s start by going back in time to when you were a kid. Tell me a little bit about your first experiences with the game of basketball.  What made you fall in love with it?

[00:00:32] Tramel Barnes: Yeah, no doubt, man. Gosh, it started really, really young for me.  I came from a family that loved sports.  my mom played basketball and went actually junior college and played junior college of basketball and then played at North Dakota State for two years and then really kind of developed the love with my grandpa though.

So it’s kind of a funny story. I think I was like five or six and then we were in our, living room. And I used to shoot Kleenexes into the, into our lamp and he was annoyed of taking out Kleenexes nonstop ’cause that was my hoop. And I came home from school one day and he had a cement hoop put up for me during the day.

So I think I was probably seven or eight when that happened. And yeah, have just had a big passion for sports in general, but specifically basketball. And like I said, my family’s been really, really influential on that. And I’ve been lucky as far as being introduced to the game at a young, young age.

[00:01:24] Mike Klinzing: So as you grew up in the game and you start to take a little bit more seriously as a player, what do you remember about how you went about improving your game and getting better? Obviously as time goes on, you have the way that kids grow up in the game today, and so much of it is training and there’s much less pickup basketball than there used to be.

But just what was it like for you? How’d you go about improving as a middle school, high school player?

[00:01:51] Tramel Barnes:  I so I actually kind of grew up in a small town in Minnesota and everyone played every sport,  what I mean? So whether it was football season, basketball season, golf, whatever it might be, we all played all every sport.

But I, I was lucky enough to have a community that really had a passion for athletics and I got into kind of a friend group as well. And like I said, growing up really early in in life, I was able to continue to develop that love for basketball. And we were on traveling teams and from starting in third grade, I think I had kind of our Montevideo, Minnesota, that’s where I kind of grew up had travel ball.

And we my group, it’s kind of crazy. From third grade to my senior year, we had 14 players starting in third grade. In our senior, my senior year of high school, we had 12 of the same guys. That’s awesome. So kind of unique. We had 12 seniors on my high school team. We grew up playing from third, most of us from third grade on the way up.

So really, really fortunate. That’s kind of a unique thing I guess, having that many seniors on a team and a group that played together from third to 12th grade and we had some, a lot of success and I think that was part of it. Just ’cause we had played together for so long. Yeah,

[00:03:00] Mike Klinzing: I mean that’s amazing.

That almost never happens. Well it almost never happens, period. But it certainly almost never happens now with the way that kids move around to schools and different things. And just to be able to have that group that is your core, that  hey, these are the guys that I’m gonna play with. I always say that like I was in maybe fifth grade, I think, and this was before the heyday of travel basketball and just was playing in like the rec league for the city.

And they took all the players from the rec league at the city and we went and played in this tournament in another town and I still have that team photo and not everyone in that photo turned out to be. A high school basketball player, but almost all the kids on that team ended up being, if not basketball players on the team.

They ended up being like the football players or the baseball players. And so it’s interesting to go back and look at those pictures and just see, I always tell people I felt like I kind of knew who the people were gonna be that I was gonna play with. And today it’s just not like that. And for you, it’s even like you doubled down on my experience to have those kids all be all be connected all through time.

Are you still, are you still friends and in touch with a lot of those guys?

[00:04:08] Tramel Barnes: I am. It is funny you say that, ’cause last night my alma mater Montevideo, they made it to the state tournament in Minnesota. So I got to watch ’em play the first round game and I ran into a bunch of guy, probably six to seven of those guys that are either living in this twin cities or living close to it.

So it was kind of a cool experience and kind of surreal I guess just to kind of relive, kind of seeing those guys in our hometown. They, we’ve only made, they’ve only made state like three times in the history of the school. So it’s kind of cool to see that happen again.

[00:04:38] Mike Klinzing: They’re a coach, whether it was your high school coach or maybe somebody who coached you when you were younger, that you feel really had an influence on you that is maybe still something that somebody that you carry with you as a coach today.

[00:04:51] Tramel Barnes: Yeah, man, my high school coach was the first one that really introduced me to like really have a real, real love for the game. It’s funny, actually, he called me today, like I, I talked to him pretty frequently. But it’s one of those things where I grew up kind of with my grandma and my grandpa had passed away pretty early, so I was always like, kind of grew up in like I was like the ball boy and the bat boy just for like male role model stuff.

And for some reason Coach Roloff and I just had a real connection whether I was from, I think it was like I was like in third grade when I started doing the ball, the Bat Boy and ball boy stuff or second grade and yeah, he was. Ended up being my coach, and we’re, we’re super close to this day still.

And he’s like a father to me,  what I mean? So it’s one of those things when I got into coaching, I didn’t know I wanted to get into coaching right away and probably until like my junior year of college or so. But he, I wanted to be like him, if that makes sense. And just impact people and have a passion for hoops and he’s just a, a great guy too,  what I mean?

A, a heck of a guy. So I was really, really fortunate that way.

[00:05:55] Mike Klinzing: There’s some part of his personality or the way that his teams played that influences you?

[00:06:03] Tramel Barnes:  what I would say he was, he was hard on us and it was one of those things that took a little bit of use time to get used to, but as like from my freshman year to my senior year, we kind of softened him up a little bit.

It helps win winning a lot of games. He didn’t have to yell much but. It’s one of those things where I’ve been super fortunate. Obviously Coach Roloff is a huge mentor to me. I’ve been fortunate enough to have so many good coaches around and  whether it was Coach Meyer at Northern State Bigs who I played for it in south southwest Minnesota State multiple guys I’ve worked for now in the profession.

I mean, I’ve been really, really lucky to have good people around me and then also just like consider them like really, really close friends.  what I mean? And it’s not always like this in that business where you’re working for someone you like,  what I mean? Like so Yeah, absolutely.

I’ve been super, super for show with that.

[00:06:54] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, it’s nice to be able to have people in your past, right, that you can reach out to when you come into a situation where maybe you just wanna bounce some ideas or some thoughts off of somebody. And it’s great to be able to pick up the phone and somebody that  pretty well that you can trust and say, Hey, here’s what I’m looking at.

What do you think I should do? Or what do you think of this is the decision that I’m considering. I would think that that’s a tremendous resource for you and not, like you said, not everybody has that.

[00:07:19] Tramel Barnes: Yeah, for sure.

[00:07:20] Mike Klinzing: All right. Tell me a little bit about your college decision. What made you make the decision that you did?

And just talk, walk me through sort of your, your recruiting experience.

[00:07:32] Tramel Barnes: Yeah.  I, like I said, I grew up in a smaller two-way school, so kind of middle of the road in Minnesota. And  I had, for the most part, Minnesota’s a unique state where at the time there was only one division one school.

The UU of M, university of Minnesota. Now St. Thomas is division one, which just went from D three to D one here in the last year. But it’s just littered with division two schools. So there’s like, I think there’s eight or nine division two schools in Minnesota itself. So my recruitment was just a lot of those division twos.

And  I, I think kind of going through the process, I played AAU and AAU and I’m kind of dating myself, I guess, but I’m 30, I’m 35 now, whatever. So I graduated in 2008. But it was very different from what it is now. Like there was like. Three really good metro teams and I was from out outer Metro and then there was like two outer metro teams.

So like it was, if you were playing AU it was really hard to like get on a AU team. Yep. So I was fortunate enough to play for Minnesota Glory back then and like I said, there was like five teams in the whole state and now there’s like five teams each program. But was really, really fortunate for that.

And coach Paxton was my coach and kind of helped me through it. And I grew up  30 or 45 minutes from southwest Minnesota State. And Brad Bigler was a assistant at the time and Greg Steven was the head coach and had some other St. Cloud state and northern, I ended up actually going to Northern State first.

So coach Don Meyer was there and Randy Barus who’s actually now the head coach at Saginaw Valley in Michigan, D two. School there recruited me and at the end of the day, like it was a really hard decision. It came down to Northern and Southwest, and Southwest was kind of home, which I really knew.

And then Northern was just a couple hours away, but Coach Meyer was just so consistent. He was just really, really consistent and had a great way about him. And it almost got to the point where like, I couldn’t say no,  what I mean? Like, we’re so I decided to go to Northern State and had a great experience there.

 it was kind of had a unique experience with Coach Myers. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with him, but he had a car accident my freshman year and ended up losing his leg and had cancer and stuff like that. So it was a, a unique year, but he coached us all the way through my freshman and sophomore year.

And then my sophomore year, reti retired. But I’m go, I guess going back to my recruiting process. It was it was similar till today,  what I mean? Now it’s a little bit different where today  now there’s like the transfer portal and all that stuff where like a lot of recruitment can happen still in the spring.

I ended up actually committing very early. I committed in June of my going into my senior year. So it was right in the middle of the summer and I had visited, I had known Southwest I had almost a full ride there. Northern gave me a full ride and it was one of those things, like I said, where I went on another visit, I visited Northern like two or three times and I went on my last visit.

It got to the point where like Coach asked if I was all in, I was all in just because I couldn’t say no to the guy just ’cause he was so consistent.

[00:10:35] Mike Klinzing: Yeah.

[00:10:35] Tramel Barnes: And he was a really good coach, really good program there, the community there. So I that’s, that was kind of my recruiting process and I.

Now being in my 11th year of college coaching, it’s like every recruiting process is so different,  what I mean? And there’s no one, no one or two that are the exact same. So mine was a little bit different where I had a couple options. And like I said, I, I was a fine player.

Like I was a good role player in college and had a great experience. But today, now with money involved and all that stuff, it’s just a whole nother beast.

[00:11:08] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, it really is. It’s amazing. I don’t think any of us, if you go back, and I’m sure that you’ve thought about this, and I know I’ve thought about it, that my time as a player, and again, I’m much older than you, but going back to when I played the idea of the amount of money that’s being thrown around again at the highest levels we’re talking about.

Yeah, absolutely. The amount of money that’s being thrown around there and just the, the transfer portal and just how different the NCAA is at in terms of what they. What they enforce, what they, what they’re looking to accomplish. It’s, it’s completely, completely different from, certainly from when I played whatever, 35 years ago.

And, and certainly much different from even when you played, I don’t think anybody could have foreseen five years ago where we are now. It’s kind of incredible.

[00:11:56] Tramel Barnes: Yeah, it really is.  and it’s, it’s interesting and it will be interesting how it continues to go,  what I mean? If they change some things to help clean some things up or how it kind of looks, but it’s just kind of the landscape of college basketball now.

So you kind of gotta adapt or die really. So.

[00:12:13] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. I mean, I think that’s the thing that when you start talking about being a coach at the college level, right, you have the way that it used to be. And clearly there are a lot of coaches who are, whether you want to call it sentimental or whether you can call it partial to the way that it used to be.

But the reality is all you have to do is look at any court decision involving. Players and the ncaa and you have a pretty good understanding that the way that it was five or 10 years ago is never coming back. Now it’s, I think that what we have now is gonna be tweaked and played with and tried to figure out how we can make it better, but I don’t think we’re ever going back to what it was like in the year 2000.

That just isn’t gonna happen. So along those lines, when you think about it from your perspective, and I thought you made a great point, that you have to be adaptable, right? Like the system is what it is. We can all sit around and say, oh, I wish it was like it was 20 years ago. Or Man, this isn’t the system that I would’ve designed.

But the reality is the system is what it is, and so everybody has to adapt to fit in with that. But if you were looking at it, what would you think would be one change to the system that we have right now that you think could potentially make it better? What’s something that you would like to see that would maybe just at least put some degree of.

I dunno if control is the right word, but what’s just, just what’s something that you might try to do differently with where we are in the moment?

[00:13:40] Tramel Barnes:  I I, when I think about that, I think one thing I think that could really clean it up is like, and I think the transfer portal is great and I think  ’cause not every situation’s perfect.

Some situations change, coaches leave. Yep.  things are different players sign after maybe that you have signed. Kids are better than they thought,  what I mean? Like, things change, . So I think the transfer portal is really good, but I do think we need to regulate like how many times you can transfer.

I know we tried to do that with the one time transfer rule and it got obviously there was some the court’s decision to kind of take that away. But right now it’s kind of just the wild, wild west really. And  being able to transfer nonstop whenever you want makes things that, to me, that’s the root of it.

 what I mean? Like if you could only transfer once, and I wish the one time transfer rule would just stick. And I know the tough thing with that is there’s a lot of gray area with that as well.  like ev like I said, every situation’s different. This coach left  my FA family has some health issues, like whatever that may be.

So I know there’s some gray areas, but I do wish they could regulate that because like, I actually, I transferred when I was at Northern State to Southwest. My after coach Meyer left, I got a little bit closer to home and I transferred and I had to sit outta here.  what I mean? That was the whole, that was how things worked.

Like if you transferred, you had to sit out. So I’m not saying they have to go back to that rule or whatnot, but I really do wish they could regulate something where it’s like if you transfer, you decide to leave and you do it more than once.  there’s like different stipulations that they could follow and try to and they tried to do that obviously, and it didn’t go through it got changed, but I think that would solve a lot of issues.

[00:15:29] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, I agree with you. I, I always say to people when they ask me or I have a conversation that fundamentally I am a hundred percent in agreement that players should be able to transfer, right? Because I think back to like you described where here you are, you transferred and now you have to sit out a year and that’s a tough year when you’ve got a practice and you’re not getting a chance to play that.

That’s a tough year on, on players. And yet at the same time, coaches, again, I’m going back to the old system. A coach can leave and coach the very next year and here’s a kid who maybe signed a letter of intent with that school or a kid who came there expressly to play for that coach. Now that coach is gone and the kid is the one kind of stuck holding the bag.

And so I always felt like that was unfair. I’m fundamentally in favor of kids being able to transfer. And I think the same way with kids being able to be paid. When you’re a basketball player at Ohio State and you go into the bookstore and your jersey is for sale and you’re, it doesn’t have your name on it, but it has your number, and you see that jersey selling for 50 or 60 bucks, and there’s part of you looking around going, well, I should have a piece of that.

Completely understandable, and I’m a hundred percent in agreement. And yet the way that it’s kind of gone where we’ve just opened it up this wide, wide, wide open with, as you said, no stipulations as to, Hey, let’s allow this, but let’s control it in some way. And I know, again, like you said, the NCAA has attempted to do that and the courts have put a little bit of a damper on what the NCAA has tried to do.

It’ll be interesting five or 10 years from now Tremmel, to see where this thing settles out from both sides of it, right? From from the coaching, the NCAA side, and then. Where the courts eventually settle and what players think about the system and how they go about trying to make it work to their advantage.

There’s, there’s all these things that everybody’s still, I feel like it’s still so early in the process for everyone that we’re all still trying to figure it out.

[00:17:28] Tramel Barnes: Yeah, no, I, I would agree a hundred percent with that.

[00:17:32] Mike Klinzing: Alright, so you mentioned earlier that coaching really hadn’t been on your radar until you get to your junior year at Southwest, going into school.

What did you think you wanted to do for a career? Were you a typical 18-year-old kid that you’re like, yeah, I gotta, I gotta pick a major. I have no idea what I really wanna do. Yeah. Where were you at? What was your mindset?

[00:17:51] Tramel Barnes:  right away I was like, maybe I’ll be a teacher. Like, I went into like my family, my grandma worked in the school system and stuff like that.

So I was thinking maybe I’ll be like a history teacher or something like that. I’ve always had a passion for history. But I realized quickly, I was like, nah, I don’t wanna do that my freshman year. And then I went into business actually, so I was kind of in a business major and. Business and sports, sports management kind of emphasis and was kind of thinking about that.

Like, I, like I said, I’ve always had a passion for sports, so I was like, Hey, maybe I can do something in professional sports ranks or administration with college. I didn’t really know exactly what I wanted to do. And it, like I said, it was my red shirt junior year when I redshirted at Southwest.  I had to do, like, you’re just sitting there, you’re practicing every day, but you’re sitting there watching the games and my, my coach Brad Bigler was really, really influential and just kind of asked me, he was kind of feeling out my passion and stuff, and he’s like,  what, man?

You’d make a, you’d make a solid coach. Like you should try to, you should, if you think about that, like, if that’s something you wanna do and it’s all done, and I could potentially have a ga spot open for you when you’re done. So just like, he didn’t make me like say yes right away, but Right. That kind of got my wheel spinning.

That was like the first time where it’s like, Hey, I like have a real passion for this and. Love all the integral parts of hoops the X’s and O’s, the relationships, all that stuff with so just like I said, I was really fortunate and was able to kind of walk into that ga after I was done.

[00:19:16] Mike Klinzing: Did that change the way that you looked at the game as a player? Did you start thinking the game more as a coach maybe than you had before and looking at, well, okay, we’re doing this drill in practice and now it’s not just about how am I using this drill to make myself better as a player, but what’s the purpose of this drill as it relates to our team?

And looking at how you played offense, how you proud your team played defense? Did you start to look at it more from a coaching perspective?

[00:19:44] Tramel Barnes: I did and I think like I said, I’ve had really good coaches growing up and Bigs is like a master technician and simplifies things. So I always had a passion that way.

And even like my red shirt ear when I couldn’t play, I was watching film, I was studying and that’s when I really kind of started deep diving into the games. And it was hard not being able to play, but feeling like you were helping your teammates and had some younger guys that were there really helped me kind of be able to teach the game as well, trying to help those guys that were actually on the floor playing during games that I couldn’t play.

[00:20:20] Mike Klinzing: What’s your favorite experience that you ever had as a player? Any level?

[00:20:25] Tramel Barnes: Hmm. That’s a great question. Ooh, gosh. My favorite experience was probably me. My first year playing at Southwest. We won the conference championship. Tournament. That was pretty fun. It was just a big, like our team, we, we didn’t have a standout guy.

I mean, our, I think our highest point score that year was like 13 points a game, or 12 points a game, and it was just kind of 12, 10, 9. It was one of those teams. 9, 8, 8. Yep. Like where everyone just kind of stood out. And that was a fun year. Had to beat some good teams to win that and ended up winning the league and playing in postseason, like, that was my first taste of like college postseason, if that makes sense.

No, it does. That was, that was that, just looking back, that was a pretty special, special year and special team. Just, we were really, really close and there wasn’t one guy that it’s a different guy every night that kind of stood up and stepped up. So that would, I’d probably say that.

[00:21:25] Mike Klinzing: All right.

Tell me about the transition from being a player in the program at Southwest to. Being a graduate assistant, what that’s like to go from one side of the office door to the other side of the office door maybe. What were some things that surprised you that you didn’t necessarily know went on with the coaches while you were playing?

[00:21:50] Tramel Barnes: Yeah.  like I said, I was really, really fortunate to be able to just step into a sys a role and a system that I knew already.  what I mean? So my transition was a maybe a little bit easier than some guys that are transitioning to a brand new coach or working for brand new system.

You’re learning all the terminology.  so for me it was really easy that way. Obviously it was a little different, like you go from having like your best friends, your teammates and now you have to separate it.

[00:22:20] Mike Klinzing: Right? Right.  what I exactly saying like,

[00:22:22] Tramel Barnes: yep, Saturday nights are different.

But it was one of those things where. I was really fortunate.  I, like I said, Brad Bigler was the head coach. He’s still the head coach at Southwest and he kind of just threw me into the fire right away. Like I was doing scouts right away. I was like, and I didn’t know what the heck. I was like looking back on it, like I had no clue what I was doing.

And  credit to our sys, our, Chad Welk was one of our other assistants. He kind of was helping me with putting together a scout and all that stuff. And I had kind of seen how we did it. So, like I said, the transition was easier for me as a player for three years there. Like I knew what it looked like, but really like breaking stuff down.

Looking back at it, getting thrown into the fire was one of the best things that happened to me. ’cause I had to learn. And then I kind of taught myself and then Bigs and Welk and some of those guys would kind of. Would guide me if I, if I felt like I needed to be guided a certain way, if that makes sense.

[00:23:19] Mike Klinzing: Well it does, absolutely. I mean, I think part of it, right, is you get in there and you start looking around and you try to figure out, well, hey, I thought I maybe knew a lot, but maybe I don’t know as much as I thought. Yeah. And so then you dive in, right? You’re trying to figure it out yourself. And then it’s nice to have people that are behind you or willing to, that are willing to support.

So along those lines, when you think about that first year or two, what area do you feel like you had the largest leap in terms of growth as a coach? Like you probably came in with some ideas of, Hey, I hear a lot of guys say I was pretty good with player development ’cause I had just been a player and I knew what I needed to do to get better and I was able to translate some of that knowledge.

But what was something that you feel like I came in and maybe I was here and now all of a sudden, boom, as I worked for a year or two and I really start to put the time in that you really grew in one area.

[00:24:13] Tramel Barnes: Yeah.  as a player, and I kind of didn’t answer your first question as well as I maybe should have, like as a player, you don’t really realize how much goes into like your co well, how much work your coach has put in.

 what I mean? Absolutely. That was really eyeopening to me. Like, oh God, like this is taking forever. Like that edit took me like six hours and,  what I mean? Or whatever, eight hours for sure. And it’s like, and the guys see 20 minutes of that,  what I mean? Like, you don’t really always realize that.

 I think just being able, like I’d say I grew the most with like game planning like I agree with you, like the player development stuff. I was a player there. I knew our system. Now I I’ve learned a, i I continue to try to learn nonstop,  what I mean? And and I’ve learned a lot of different things, but I kind of knew how bigs wanted the player development to look like.

’cause I had just came through that. But like I said, I was kind of thrown into the fire, so like game planning. I mean, looking back at it now, it’s almost laughable. Like not saying like it was like necessarily bad plans by any means, but like, just like the routine. I didn’t always have like a routine like I do now as I’ve been in coaching for a while and like it’s a little more sporadic of like, oh, this, this, and like how I break things down.

I really grew and I gotta give credit to like Chad Welk and Brad Bigler. A lot of credit to helping me kind of get me through that without like just telling me what to do. Like let me, letting me find my own way. But then if like I, Hey May if you have, you tried looking, thinking about this way to do this?

Oh yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And then just kind of continuing to build and add those building blocks to the fundamentals of that,

[00:25:56] Mike Klinzing: that’s an underrated ability, right. Of a head coach. I think when you start talking about somebody who is. Giving Coach Barnes responsibility. And yet in the back of Coach Big’s mind, he probably knows Coach Barnes’, scouting reporter, coach Barnes’s game plan needs some help.

It’s probably gonna have some, it’s probably gonna have some holes. He’s probably gonna need some help. And yet as a head coach to help your assistants grow, that’s part of the job. That’s part of your, what you have to do. But I think you also have to be secure enough in yourself as a head coach and confident enough that, Hey, I, I can, I can help this guy through it.

But yet that’s a hard thing to be able to do, to delegate. I think as you get more experience, it becomes easier to delegate. I think in my experience at least, and just with guys that I’ve talked to over the course of the time with the pod and, and coaches that I’ve been around, a lot of guys will tell me when I was young, I wanted to micromanage everything because I.

I thought I knew what was best and even if I had somebody who was really good in an area, I still wanted to oversee it. And then as I grew and I got older and I got more experienced, I realized that part of what I have to do is let that piece of it not completely go. ’cause you still, as you said, have to have oversight, but at the same time, you wanna be able to tap into the talents that your staff has, which may not always be exactly like yours, but I just think that’s an underrated skill of a head coach, is the ability to allow someone underneath them to have that, again, I wouldn’t say complete autonomy, but the autonomy to go out and do some things and make some mistakes, knowing that part of my job as a head coach is to help that player and help that coach grow.

[00:27:39] Tramel Barnes: Yeah.  and looking back at it as a 22-year-old, I’ve been I’ve never been afraid to ask for help.  what I mean? Where if I felt like I had questions and stuff and  bigs was awesome to be about that and just kind of. Explain why he, why we would do this, why we did that.

And I kind of had a feeling as a player obviously playing for him for three years. Like I knew how he wanted, I knew how we wanted to guard stuff. I knew,  what I mean? How we did it in the past anyway. Yep. But it’s one of those things where it’s just like the process of like getting everything organized all the time as like a 22-year-old, like one game, I, you maybe do it this way, and then the next game you’re like, Hey, let me, like, I’m thinking this seems different here.

Like I gotta focus more on this. Like, so it was just, it was a process to learn a little bit, but it, it was looking back on it, like I’m super, super fortunate that I was 22 just thrown into the woods or thrown into the fire and kind of able to figure it out, but also have that guidance where there was a confidence that he instilled in me that I was doing the right thing.

And then if he felt like some stuff needed to be tweaked, we would talk about it.

[00:28:44] Mike Klinzing: How far along in your career were you? Where you felt like you did have a handle on, here’s my system for if I’m gonna go out and scout a team, I know what my process is. I know how I wanna do that. If I have to put together a game plan for this opponent, I know the steps that I need to take in order to put forth a game plan that my head coach is gonna understand and be able to convey to the players.

Where were you in your career when you felt like, again, obviously as you said, you’re learning, right? You’re constantly learning and evolving and tweaking, but when did you feel pretty confident that your process was where it needed to be?

[00:29:21] Tramel Barnes: I would say probably my third year. Yes. Because our first two, my first two years, like I said, I was a GA for a year right out of college.

Welk left and then I got put on right as the head assistant. So I was 23 years old. And my second year of coaching and a full-time assistant there at a division two. So I would say, and we were, we had solid years. Those first two years we were a little over 500, so it wasn’t great. But I would really say that third year after my first year being the head assistant, like almost doing pretty much every scout I really, through that second year, I really kind of got a rhythm.

And then by my third year I was like, okay, I feel pretty confident in this process and that process is tweaked.  what I mean? Like, the process is tweaked over the years and  going to different levels now, like division two, like been at a lot of different levels, whether it’s division two, low major, mid major, high major  it’s, and some of it’s resources based, like in division two, we didn’t have sports code, we didn’t have all that stuff.

Like I was straight  screen copying my stuff and like putting it into some like free download movie file. Right.  what I mean? Like, it was just one of those things where. So just refining that process a little bit. But I’d say by my third year, I felt pretty confident that this is kind of my routine and it’s, it’s grown over the years as well.

Yeah,

[00:30:45] Mike Klinzing: absolutely. Tell me about the opportunity at the first opportunity at South Dakota State.

[00:30:51] Tramel Barnes: Yeah, so  that was my first divisional on assistant job the first time here. And I was actually, so I went from Southwest as assistant. I was there for five years. Then I went to the university or Utah State in Logan, Utah as a ops guy, so, okay, gotcha.

Yep. So I was at Utah State for one year as an ops guy. Had a really good year there as a, as a program. It was a great year. And then was fortunate when Hendo got the job here when TJ Alberg had left and went to UNLV, Hendo, got the job here, and I didn’t really know Hendell super well, but coaching’s such a small community.

It’s one of those things where I talked to him a couple weeks and it worked out where I was able to it was kind of. Get on his staff for the first time and  we’ve, it’s kind of crazy now, coming back for the second time. It’s still the same staff here, so they’ve had, they’ve been together for seven years, I think.

And I was with them the first two years. But it was fun, man. It was, it was good. It was different. And I’ve been fortunate enough, like I said, to learn from different coaches and all really, really good coaches, but all do things a little bit different. And  hedos one of the best I’ve been around.

He is, he is awesome that way. And we had some, some fun years that first couple years and as I went to South Dakota State leaving u Utah State, it’s like we we had Sam Maryland, that Utah State team, we had Naish Kda. So we had two guys that are currently in the NBA and won the league.

Went to the NCAA tournament our first year and  decided to take a leap of faith to come to South Dakota State. Eric, he hedos first year as a head coach. And not knowing like how we’d be, I didn’t I didn’t, I just always have just kind of trusted my gut that way. And  really trusted heel from day one.

[00:32:35] Mike Klinzing: So, coming in as a completely new staff Right. And sort of turning the program around, making it, making it yours, right. Making it what the vision of your staff, what your head coach is all about. Tell me about that process coming in brand new versus now coming back where the program is already established.

What’s, how, how’s that a different feel for you as an assistant? Yeah.

[00:33:01] Tramel Barnes:  our first year there was just a lot, there was, how do I say this? There was  we were trying to hendo expect Hendo was trying to figure out exactly how he wanted his teams to play a little bit, right? And we were trying to figure out our team.

We had lost Mike Dom had lost, I think we had lost like 4,000 points from the year before. Mike, Dom, David Jenkins, Skyler, flatten to name a few, I’m missing some guys, Reed. So we had, so we had a completely new team and they had a, had had a lot of success with TJ and Scott and Aggie before that even.

So, like our program has a rich tradition of success. So there was just a lot of unknowns and exactly how he wanted to play  offensively how he wanted to play defensively. So that was a little bit different where this time I feel like hedos he is been a head coach for six years now.

He knows who he is and I’ve I haven’t had the, I haven’t been able the opportunities to be a head coach, so, and battle through some of that stuff of learning process,  what I mean? There’s always gonna be a learning curve with that stuff and talking to a lot of guys.

So, this, this transition’s been super, super easy for me and the staff. I mean, the staff here is awesome with Brian Peterson, Rob k Fus I mean Clinks been here for 18 years at South Dakota State. So that, that would be the biggest thing. I think they’ve kind of just ironed out exactly who they are.

They are identity. Where like that first year we didn’t know offensively exactly how we wanted to play and we kind of morphed into a three out, two in. And like not a, like, not a ton of teams play that way. And Doug Wilson was our starting forward that ended up winning Player of the Year. And so it was just trying to figure that team out and figure out how we wanted to play, I’d say was the biggest transition to where now we’ve kind of we have our niche, Hedo knows how it wants to do this, this, and this, and it’s just kind of ironed out.

It’s

[00:34:50] Mike Klinzing: so recruiting process a lot easier too. Right. When . This is the way we wanna play. This is the type of player we’re looking for. Whereas that first year, right, you come in, you inherit a roster, and then you’re trying to recruit guys and you’re still like, well, what style are we gonna play?

And then maybe even, you might have a vision of, this is the way we wanna play. But then you look at your roster and you’re like, well, maybe this roster can’t play that way, so we gotta tweak it. Whereas now, once you’ve had things established for as long as Coach Henderson has now that gives you an opportunity to just sort of hit the ground running every year.

’cause you have all those pieces in place. Yep.

[00:35:25] Tramel Barnes: Exactly.

[00:35:26] Mike Klinzing: Exactly. Tell me about the culture and what you remember about the process. First of all, they’re at South Dakota State, but maybe just speaking more generally, ’cause obviously you’ve worked for a lot of different head coaches. Yep. What are some things that you’ve seen that have worked in terms of building the right culture around a team?

[00:35:48] Tramel Barnes: Yeah.  like I said, I’ve worked for amazing people.  I, I can’t say one negative thing about any of the guys that I’ve worked for, whether it’s bigs Craig Smith Heno, like, and all those guys are amazing coaches, but more so amazing people.  I, and I think like, culture can be thrown away, thrown around a ton, and it’s a buzzword and all that stuff, but like all three of those guys they are who they are.

 what I mean? Yeah. And when I say that, it’s like there’s no front ever. There’s no phoniness. They’re, they’re upfront, they’re honest. And I think that’s why they make ’em such great people,  what I mean? Like, they’re, they’re not trying to be someone else. They’re not trying to please people this way for that.

They’re just, they are who they are. And that’s what makes all those guys, I think, amazing coaches and amazing people.  and I’ve been fortunate enough to learn from those guys about that.  whether it’s,  how honest, like Hendo is one of the, like the, the most honest people, the like the most genuine person you’ll ever meet,  what I mean?

I mean, well how many Division one head coaches when you get to a hotel and on the road is the first one off the bus and he is pulling the bags from underneath the bus.  what I mean? Like Yeah. That’s the type of guy he is though. And he is always been that guy. So I would say, I would say that like just they are who they are and it’s surrounding yourself with good people.

I think that’s one thing.  Craig always talked about, like, he wants obviously good coaches, but good people and you are who you surround yourself with,  what I mean? And I think that’s, that’s really, really big when it comes down to the culture piece of it and the connectivity piece of your program.

And it starts at the top and it’s gotta go all the way down to the bottom.

[00:37:33] Mike Klinzing: Well, that speaks to, I think, something that when you look at. I don’t care whether it’s a basketball program, but any organization, right? When you talk about the quality and caliber of people that you bring in, it makes it a lot easier to build a great culture, to have a great culture when you’re not trying to spend all your try time pounding that square peg into a round hole, right?

You already have the round pegs that  fit into that hole, and that makes it much, much easier then to be able to build a culture where everybody is pulling in the same direction. Players, coaches, there’s mutual respect all the way around. And as you said, when somebody’s authentic, when somebody is genuine, when somebody is who they say they are, it makes it a lot easier for every single person in that program to be able to buy in, right?

From a player that you’re recruiting to a coach that’s considering coming on the staff. And then just, I’m sure for you when you’re sitting in the coach’s office. And you’re working with the staff when  that everybody in that room trusts one another implicitly. It just makes it, I’m sure, so much easier to be able to have a united front.

When you walk outta that coach’s office, everybody’s on the same page, selling the same thing to players, to the community, to the school, to the administration, everything. It just feels like that, it all starts with, as you said, that authenticity and just bringing good people in.

[00:39:04] Tramel Barnes: Yeah, no, no doubt. And  everywhere I’ve been, you, you have different slogans and stuff and like  I think here we, like, we have a big circle and every single game Hendo talks about it.

It’s all sprinkled all over a thing. Having two feet in and like the words honesty come to mind, that’s in our circle. Respect, selflessness, communication, compete. Those are just some of the things like we live by and we try to tell our guys, and it’s bigger than basketball,  what I mean? It’s like.

There’s gonna be times in life where like you’re gonna have some difficult things happen,  what I mean? There’s gonna be times in life you make a mistake. But like, you gotta be honest. Like when you make a mistake, it’s better to be honest, upfront right away than try to backpedal, backpedal. ’cause at the end of the day, the truth is the truth and the truth will be told.

So it’s one of those things that  everywhere I’ve been, we’ve had different logo slogans and different things like that, but it’s one of those things like, you gotta live it. Like it’s one thing to have it on the wall, but if you’re not  talking the talk, walk, the walk, that type of deal, none of it matters.

 what I mean? And that starts from the top to the bottom.

[00:40:12] Mike Klinzing: Absolutely. I mean, that’s a great point. And it’s one that I often ask when coaches will talk about things with their culture, where they’ll say, okay, this is the slogan, or these are our four pillars, or these are the things. And it’s always, it’s easy to write those down, right?

And put ’em on a poster and stick ’em up on the wall. It’s a little bit harder sometimes. To be able to make those concrete so that everybody in the program understands what that means. So we could talk about, right, like you just did honesty. Well, honesty means, let’s be honest, right from the start, so that we don’t have to get to the truth a half hour later or two days later or where it is.

And now we’ve wasted all this time and energy and resources trying to get to the truth. Whereas if we had just spoken honestly with each other right from the get go, we’re, we’re, we’re nine steps ahead of where we would be if, if we were kind of trying to deflect the truth. And so I like the idea of taking, taking those words and making ’em, especially for players, right?

’cause players can hear those things and coaches may understand ’em. But unless the coach can communicate to the players well, what does that, what does that look like? Right? So if one of your, if one of your core pillars is communication, well, what does, what does that look like? So if a player asks you, Hey, what does.

What’s good command? What’s communi good communication look like? Coach Barnes, what do you tell ’em? What’s something that Yeah. Is something that is important to you guys and then how do you take that and make it, make it real, make it into action that the players can actually take?

[00:41:37] Tramel Barnes: Yeah.  it’s, it’s as simple as like, Hey,  what, like we’re, I’m, we kind have a rule, like we always want to be like 10 minutes early to everything.

And it’s communication. It’s as simple as this. Like, Hey,  what, maybe it’s to a professor like, Hey, I’m gonna be gone, we’re going on a road trip or Planet Alabama, I’m missing these next two days. But like, having the communication early enough where it’s not after the fact. Right.  what I mean?

Or the communication of, Hey coach, I’m not feeling good. I’m gonna be there like right on time. Or I might be late, but it’s beforehand, not after the fact.  what I mean? So like it’s all before and just working ahead and staying ahead that way. Like, that’s just a simple example I guess with communication that we like try to teach our guys.

And also like just the way you talk to people just stuff like that. Yep.

[00:42:28] Mike Klinzing: I think a lot of those things, right. Carry over, not just on the floor, but they carry over, as you said, off the floor, whether you’re talking to a professor or Yep. You’re talking to somebody eventually if you’re trying to get a job or you have a coworker or a boss or whatever it might be.

Be able to learn those skills as a part of being on a team is obviously invaluable. I think that’s one of the biggest things that coaches do. Right. When we talk about the impact, and you think about, like we talked about off the top with the coaches that have influenced you over the course of time when you were playing and how you still carry some of those things with you that have made you the success that, that you currently are.

A lot of that goes back to, Hey, what I, what I learned when I was a, I learned, I learned more than just being able to play basketball and be a part of a team. I also learned some of these other life skills that can impact me for the remainder of my life, and I think that’s a big part of, of having a successful program.

[00:43:19] Tramel Barnes: Yeah. No, I, I agree and.  it just makes you saying that it makes me just look, think about like my freshman year of college, like when Coach Meyer has his accident, we, we, so we practiced at five 30 in the morning every day. Coach Meyer loses his leg finds out he has cancer, right? And he was there on the first day of practice at 5:00 AM  what I mean?

And you like think like you have it bad, like that’s exactly,  what I mean? Like, he can barely talk. Like we’re literally, he’s whispering to us because his long, like he, he had hurt his lungs and all that diaphragm and stuff. And it’s like, you realize really, like, realize like, no, like you don’t have it as bad as you think you have it.

 what I mean? And it’s, that’s something very simple to think about, but it’s one of those things where you don’t think about it until you can kind of see it sometimes.

[00:44:13] Mike Klinzing: Talk to me a little bit about the recruiting process for you and. What it looks like when you go out and look at players, obviously there’s a requisite level of skill that a player needs to be able to have to play at the level that you’re coaching at, but what are some things that you look for in a player, maybe intangibles or just things that you look for in, in players that Coach Henderson likes, players that you like.

[00:44:39] Tramel Barnes: Yeah, I think one big thing for us and we, we take a lot of pride in developing relationships with people and we start that process pretty early and we try to  start that as early as like their sophomore or junior year or high school. So it’s not like a speed dating,  what I mean?

Where it’s can continue to happen year after year. That way. Really, really big on relationships that way and getting to know people and getting to know families and what makes them tick and. We found out like if we can do that over a two to three year period than just like one summer before their senior year  it, it really, really helps us know who they are, but also they know who we are at the end of the day.

So that’s one thing that I think that we would try to try to do, and obviously, like you said, you do have to have a certain level of skill,  what I mean, to play at the division one level and talent level that way. But it’s one of those things where Coach Henderson’s really, really big on just his gut feeling in ourselves of just like recruiting good people and people and like we, we evaluate parents just as much as players.

That’s one thing that we try to take a lot of pride in because no matter if you’re your freshman year, if you’re playing 20 minutes a game or you’re not, you’re playing two minutes a game. Like there’s gonna be adversity at some point. So  we want, we, we want parents to be able to be there for their child, obviously, and their sons.

We also don’t want them necessarily just like coddling them at all and being able to be real with them. Does that make sense? So that’s does one thing. It does a lot that we look into and really dive into the parents and not saying that, I’m not trying to say that they can’t coddle their son by any means, but just people that that are gonna be there for their son, but also be able to give them some tough love too at times.

And but that’s, I would say that’s one thing that we really look at.  another thing I think that we try to evaluate  is how they interact with their teammates.  how they interact with their coaching staff, how they interact. And we do a lot of homework, whether it’s communicating with people at their schools their coaches siblings, different things that way and how they treat people.

’cause I. At the end of the day, like how they treat their closest friends and their their immediate families, a reflection on how they’re gonna be here a lot of times,  what I mean? So that’s important. And  those are some things I guess that stick out the most. But it’s one of those things where we’re, it’s happens over a two to three year period.

We try to have it now. It’s not always like that, but then it, you also have  a, a timeframe of just seeing it for a while and getting to truly, truly know the people that the person and parents and stuff like that. Whether than just like recruiting ’em from June of their senior year to, to the fall of their  the beginning of their senior year.

[00:47:29] Mike Klinzing: For you personally, a player that you’re gonna sign and bring into the program, typically, how many times do you like to see that player? Play in person. I don’t know if there is a typical answer to that. ’cause obviously every recruitment, as you said earlier, is different. But Yes, sir. In an i in an ideal world, how often do you, how, how many times do you like to see a kid play in person?

Because I’m sure you can pick things up in person that you don’t necessarily always pick up on the tape.

[00:47:56] Tramel Barnes: Yeah, no doubt. I I as many times as possible, obviously with NCAA rules, you only see seven times a year. Right. But  for sure like two to three to four high school games throughout the year.

And  it’s a little bit different sometimes if they’re outta region now. We don’t recruit a ton outta region guys where maybe an outer region persons one to two times in person during the high school year where if it’s a local kid, it’s five, it’s five to six times that way. But  it’s, it’s one thing that like, we, we try to spread things out as well.

Like, we’ll go to football games. Like if they’re a multi-sport athlete, we’ll we’ll go to their football game, we’ll go to their weight lifting session. And just see ’em in an open gym and then they lift,  what I mean? Just in different environments and seeing how they interact with teammates and different things that way.

Different coaches are things that we kind of look for and try to get to. So  if I had to put a number on it, local kids, four to five times, probably.

[00:48:51] Mike Klinzing: How do you utilize watching a kid in a high school game versus watching them in an a a U game? Are you using an a a U game, an a a U setting more to evaluate players who have come on your radar and are on your list and say, okay, this is a guy we’ve ident.

We’re gonna identify this guy in aau that, hey, we want this player. And then once you’ve identified that you want the player, are you then using the high school games to make sure that the player understands and knows that you wanna build that relationship and that you really want to come? I guess the bottom line for the question is, are you evaluating players very often?

In their high school game, are those most often players that you’ve already identified that you wanna recruit? If that question makes sense.

[00:49:38] Tramel Barnes: Yeah. I think it’s a variety, to be honest. Like I, like I’ve mentioned a couple times, it’s never the same every time.  we’ve obviously are always looking to continue to add people to the list whether they’re local, little outta region  AAU is a great, great way to see a lot of, a lot of guys in confined areas.

So that’s kind of a, a good way to continue to evaluate guys and find more guys and making calls to AU coaches and stuff like that, and kind of seeing your list that way. But then high school is a great way to evaluate guys too, because they sometimes, a lot of times guys play different,  what I mean?

Like in AU and that’s something you look at too. Like in AU there’s nine to 10 guys. They’re all the best players on their high school team. There’s alphas that where they’re an alpha on their AU team, but maybe another guy’s kind of taken a back seat to, to this guy.  what I mean? And, but with his high school team, he’s the alpha and you don’t get to see that side of him always in aau.

So we do like to watch high school stuff just to be able to see like whether they’re in au it’s like, oh, he’s, he’s a good role player he is  hustles, plays hard, whatever that may be. Well, then it’s like, okay, you see a whole nother level to to their leadership sometimes when they’re just with their high school teams.

[00:50:58] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. Well, you can also, right? I think one of the things that’s always interesting to me is when you think about players moving up a level right from high school to college, not every high school kid who’s the star on their high school team is gonna get to be a star at the college level, right? Most guys are gonna come in and they’re gonna be role players.

Maybe if you’re lucky as a college program, you have one star. And if you’re really good, maybe you get two. But for the most part, there’s still only one ball. And you’ve got guys that have to be able to fill a role. And so to be able to see, as you said, that player, okay, in his high school team, he’s the star.

We see what he does when he’s ball dominant and does things and is sort of the straw that stirs the drink. But now all of a sudden he goes to an AAU program where maybe he is the fourth option. Well, he might end up being the fourth option in college. How does that player play? Does he still compete?

Right? Does he still play hard defensively? Is he hanging his head? ’cause he is not getting as many shots or the ball doesn’t find him when he is open every single time the way it might when he is in high school. I think to me, when you start trying to project and evaluate where is this player gonna be when they become part of our program, I think as you said, seeing them in those different environments and in different roles is really valuable.

And that also go back to, you can even think about that from a two sport athlete or a multi-sport athlete perspective, right? The kid who’s the star in. Basketball, maybe on the baseball team or the football team. He’s just another guy who fills a role. What’s, what’s he like in that environment? What does that coach what does his football coach or his baseball coach think about him, where he is not the best player?

How does he react to that? And so I think, again, you’re just looking for every bit of information that you can get to try to make the best evaluation on a kid that you can.

[00:52:44] Tramel Barnes: Yeah.  recruiting, I mean, it’s a, it’s a si. I mean, at the end of the day, it’s, it’s very unique with roster construction, right?

Like sometimes you think like, Hey, this kid’s gonna be really, really good. Like he’s got a chance to be really good. And then you got other guys, like when I was at Southwest Ryan Bru, we recruited a kid named Ryan Brueggeman. He was on a $500 scholarship his freshman year and like halfway through his red shirt year we’re like, he’s our best player.

[00:53:11] Mike Klinzing: Like

[00:53:12] Tramel Barnes: he’s our, literally our best player. He is Redshirting. And he ended up being the all leading score. Steels assists. Broke every record. But  like going into it, it’s like, yeah, we, we’ll take him, we’ll take him. He’s a tough kid. He plays hard. And then like, so it’s, it’s hard to know exactly. But it’s one of those things where you just rely and trust on kind of your key fundamental things of what you look for in guys.

And  sometimes you get lucky with guys and some some careers are not as fortunate for other guys.  what I mean? So when you’re constructing your roster, it’s one of those things where you just really lean on kind of your principles and what you’re looking for. And then just developing guys and each guy’s development takes a little bit of different time.

[00:53:56] Mike Klinzing: It’s an inexact science, let’s put it that way, right? Tramel? Yeah. Yes. That’s

[00:54:00] Tramel Barnes: a perfect

[00:54:01] Mike Klinzing: word.

[00:54:01] Tramel Barnes: I’m stealing

[00:54:01] Mike Klinzing: that. Alright. All right. For you and your career, as you think about the different stops that you’ve had along the way, and there may be a time where you’re looking to be able to become. A head coach and and run your own program.

As you are going through your career as an assistant coach, what are some things that you’re doing behind the scenes to prepare yourself for an eventual opportunity that you may get to be a head coach? What’s some advice you might give to somebody who’s starting out as a young assistant? What should they be doing to sort of collect and gather their thoughts, their ideas, things that they’re using from the coaching staffs that they’ve worked with?

What’s been your system for preparing? Whether you think about just preparing for an interview, preparing for eventually having that chance, what are some things that you’ve done over the course of your career as an assistant that you feel are gonna help prepare you to become a head coach?

[00:55:07] Tramel Barnes:  that’s, that’s a great, great question.

 I, one thing I did learn early on in my career from coach Don Meyer was like taking notes. We would take notes nonstop. That was like a huge thing for him. And I’ve just like carried that on as far as I go. Like, I have a folder of a bunch of things of like, I love different podcasts.

Like I listen to slapping glass all the time, just like different things like that where I’m always consistently learning and I have a Word document, right, where I just start typing stuff that I like and I have a folder and I throw it in there.  what I mean? Now, you can’t use everything from everybody, but  if you can steal one to two things  from there, from, from him, from here, from there, whether it’s at the Final Four conventions, wherever that may be, your pod, your podcast tonight,  what I mean?

Like, if you can steal a couple things and just like I. Carry it take notes and put it away so you have it. You can always go back and look at it. And that’s something that I’ve done for a while now.  like I said, I, I would, my, my goal is to become a head coach one day. And whether that’s a year from now, five years from now, 10 years from now, it’s one of those things where you keep learning, you keep adapting  and you just keep growing at the end of the day.

So I think that was, that’s one thing I’ve taken a lot of pride in. Like it’s really hit me here over the last couple years more now, where it’s like really kind of narrowing in on like different things, like kind like your head, like a, like a booklet and things like that. And like how you’d run your program.

 what I mean? Like I’ve said, all show, I’ve been fortunate enough to like. Be around amazing people in my career around basketball, but like, I can’t steal everything that they use. I still have to do what I like,  what I mean? Like, what’s true to me, right? Yeah,

[00:56:50] Mike Klinzing: for sure.

[00:56:50] Tramel Barnes: Absolutely. At the end of the day, and I ha I share a lot of similarities to guys I’ve worked for.

 and sometimes it’s taken stuff that you love and then sometimes it’s taking stuff that like like it’s o it’s okay, but it’s not for me. ? And being able to balance that and know kind of who you are as a person and how you would wanna run your program. But  over the years and now going into my 11th year as a coach and college coaching, it’s like one of those things where it’s like, really these last couple years I would say, like really trying to develop that.

So like, if that opportunity arises, you’re ready.  what I mean? And like. Having a plan and not just like being like, oh, I gotta, okay, what, how am I gonna attack this? Instead of like, just trying to be re as ready as you can be. Like, you’re probably never for sure, always a hundred percent ready when it comes to that.

But now  I’ve, I’ve been over these last two to three years just really trying to narrow in on that. Like if those opportunities do arise, how do I want it to look?  and then having stuff ready. So like, if things move quickly as in this profession, like you’re not just caught with your pants down.

[00:58:01] Mike Klinzing: Have you thought through some answers to interview questions when you start thinking about what the interview process looked like. Ha have you, have you worked through whether mentally or actually on paper or on a computer file, typed out some answers to, to some interview questions that you probably get thrown at you as a head coach?

[00:58:18] Tramel Barnes: Yeah.  I think, I have, I’ve thought about it.  and like it’s, there’s just so much, like you think like, until you really sit down and look at it and you put something down on paper, it’s just like staff construction and then like scheme community support,  what I mean? Like professional development that way.

Obviously fundraising, like now, today in today’s society, fundraising might be one of the more important things you do as a head coach,  what I mean? Yep. Like being able to raise funds for your program, your budget, NIL, like just different things like that. But yeah, it’s, it’s something that I’ve thought about and continue to adapt and continue to think about and just being able to pick other people’s brains kind of, like I’ve said, I’ve been at different stops now where I’ve been at a division two low major, mid major, high major. Meeting different administration and  some people have already have moved on and become division one ADSD when they’re associate ads and keeping those friendships,  what I mean?

Genuine and stuff like that. And asking those guys like, Hey, what are you looking for? Like, what are some things that are really, really important here over the last two to three years, more than they were 10 years ago? Just little things like that. But absolutely. But yeah, to answer your question, I try to, what’s, so, yeah.

[00:59:37] Mike Klinzing: What’s something that as an assistant coach and I, we already talked about one of ’em, which is the ability to give your assistant coaches some leeway to be able to, to do things right, to, to release some control as a head coach. But what’s something else that you’ve learned as an assistant coach that you love about a head coach that you would want to continue to do?

When you became a head coach to support your assistants?

[01:00:11] Tramel Barnes: Yep. Gosh, that’s a good question. Hmm. That’s a good question. I would say I’ve worked for, everyone I’ve worked for has had an amazing balance of work and family and we all work really, really hard. And  I think like something that I’ve enjoyed and believe me, we put in a lot of hours.

Like there’s many nights you’re up till midnight one, 2:00 AM doing stuff, but like being able to go home for dinner with your family and still have trust that you’re gonna get stuff done at home or come back to the office, whatever that may be, that’s something to me. And now I just had my first son here.

Gosh, he’s almost 10. He’s 10 months old. Congratulations. So it’s, congratulations. Congratulations. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. So it’s even hit home a little bit more. Everyone I’ve worked for has had a real balance of being able to like, we’re gonna work really, really hard. But also like there’s, there’s a bigger picture to this deal.

Like, we also are gonna give time for family.  you’re not gonna have to come like, yeah.  like it’s us, STSU like we, we practice in the morning, so we’re all here at 6:00 AM  what I mean? And then, but we’re not staying here till 8:00 PM  what I mean? So it’s just like where you’re not seeing family throughout the old day.

So I think that’s something that if I’m fortunate enough to come a head coach, like I want to continue. And you gotta be able to trust people that they know the work’s getting done. But also having that balance. And I’ve been, like I said, I’ve been super, super fortunate to be around people that, that have had that.

’cause I don’t think it’s like that always. But that’s, it’s difficult, right? Yeah.

[01:01:55] Mike Klinzing: It’s definitely difficult, and I think that as an assistant coach, you’re not always in control of that schedule, right? The head coach ultimately sets the schedule, and so if you wanna continue to be, remain to, to remain employed, then you have to do what your head coach, what your boss asks you to do.

And yet, I completely understand the point that you just made, that when you have a head coach who A, understands the amount of work that it takes, but also understands the fact that there is a life outside of basketball that’s important, and being able to strike that balance, I can, I can see completely where that I I is a key, especially again as an assistant coach, where you are, you are at the  you are at the beck and call of your, of your head coach if they want you, if they need you for something, you, you have to answer the bell.

So to know that there’s somebody there that, that understands that. Hey, I got a son at home. Hey, I’ve got a family at home that needs me just the same way that the basketball program needs me. And as you said, it doesn’t, I’m sure it doesn’t happen everywhere like that. And you and I both know that in the coaching profession, there’s, there’s no limit to the amount of time that you can put in and the amount of things that you can do.

And so you have to, I think one of the things that I’ve talked to coaches about Tremmel is just the, the, the danger, especially with how easy it is on the technology side, right. To watch film compared to probably what it was even when you started.

[01:03:30] Tramel Barnes: Yep.

[01:03:31] Mike Klinzing: I mean, you can, you could be watching film 24 7 at a certain point it probably gets to it, it probably gets to be overkill, but it’s so available.

It’s not the old days of the old FedEx VHS tape drop offs. Back when back, back when I was playing, when the graduate assistants were, were driving to the  driving to the post office to, to mail and pick up pick up videos. It’s a, it’s a little bit easier to watch tape now. No doubt. No doubt.

All right. I want to ask you a final two part question. So part one, when you think about the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge? And then when you think about what you get to do each and every day, what brings you the most joy about your job? So the biggest challenge followed by the biggest joy.

[01:04:24] Tramel Barnes: Gosh, you got, you got great questions. You have great questions. I’m try,

[01:04:29] Mike Klinzing: I’m try, I’m trying over here. Man.

[01:04:31] Tramel Barnes: Biggest challenge. Biggest challenge I would say with. The landscape of college basketball today. The biggest challenge is having a connectivity with within your team.  with, with people transferring in and out.

You got guys leaving, you got guys coming. So it’s not like it was before where it was like, Hey,  what? Like you had your freshmen that were new, but you had your sophomores, juniors and seniors to teach it, like teach the young clubs how to do it. So I, I think that’s one thing, and we’ve been pretty fortunate here at South Dakota State.

 we’ve had guys transfer, we had guys and, and it’s, it’s been great.  like we’ve had really good teams and usually when you have good teams, you have good players. So we’ve had guys been able to transfer up, but it’s also a challenge of just like being able now to like, have to bring in, okay, maybe then we need to bring in a junior that’s transferring from somewhere else, but also like teaching them kind of how we ride the ship and how things are done here.

I think over the last couple years that’s probably been the biggest challenge that way. And then most excited for I would say just continuing to grow and learn and  meet new people. It’s crazy what you can do, whether it’s basketball related  just traveling, whatever it may be.

But it’s one of those things where it’s like you just can, you can learn so much from a stranger,  what I mean? Whether it’s you take one or two things here and there.  I try to live my life that way and treat people the right way. And I think that’s, that’s the biggest thing is like, never stop learning, always just trying to I super fortunate that Joel Wallace connected us,  what I mean?

Like, you just never know. Yep, exactly. Right. For sure. You just never know that. And that’s something that I try to live my life by and something that, . Keeps it keeps life exciting.

[01:06:24] Mike Klinzing: This podcast has been a testament to that statement that you just made. Right? Learning from strangers. So guys come on in a lot of cases, complete strangers, a lot of cases, guys that I’ve never talked to before.

And I always say that there’s not very many people in your life that you sit down and have an hour and 10 or hour and 15 minute conversation with. That is very, very rare in our personal lives. And so for me, I always feel like I walk away from every conversation that I have. One, having learned something about the coaching profession or just about people and the psychology of coaching, but then also just being able to get to know an individual on a level that in any other venue, I rarely get to sit down and have, I mean, I barely can have a conversation with my wife, with chasing my kids around to different things and going to this game and that game.

Doing podcast till midnight and twice a week and all the, all the other things that we’re doing. And so, yeah, I agree. The ability to be able to connect with people through basketball and to be able to learn from them and continually grow. Man, I, I think that was really, really well said.

Before we get out, I want to give you a chance to share how can people connect with you, find out more about you, your program. Let’s start with whatever you feel comfortable sharing. Email, yeah. Social media, website. And then after you do that, I’ll jump back in and wrap things up.

[01:07:54] Tramel Barnes: Yeah, My cell, 320-226-3857.  Our website has our emails and stuff like that on there, so feel free to if anyone wants to reach out, I’m all always looking forward to meeting new people and maybe even trying to connect at the Final Four or whatever that may be.

Or just like you said, maybe you got 30 minutes, let’s chat and just connect.  You know what I mean? So feel free to share all my information. I think my social media is maybe on our South Dakota State website too. And reach out. I’m not a huge social media guy now I do go on it just for basketball and stuff like that, but yeah, cell phone call, text, whatever.  I’m always available.

[01:08:42] Mike Klinzing: We’ll put all that stuff in the show notes so people can access it there. Tramel can’t thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us. Really appreciate it. And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.