Greg White

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Bentonville West (AR) High School Boys’ Varsity Head Coach Greg White jumps on the pod with Mike for the sixth edition of “4 Quarters with Greg White”. In “4 Quarters” we will discuss four issues in the game of basketball that we believe are important for coaches and players!

What We Discuss with Greg White

  • First Quarter – What will be the impact of no AAU Basketball this summer for most parts of the country?
  • Second Quarter – What have we learned since the start of the pandemic that has helped us grow as coaches and people.
  • Third Quarter – What happens if there is no high school season this year? Are there alternatives to “normal” or “nothing”? Greg shares some creative solutions.
  • Fourth Quarter – How do we as coaches affect change in terms of the social justice movement in our country.

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4th Quarter 6 Final Cut

Mike Klinzing: [00:01:25] Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host, Jason Sunkle tonight, but I am pleased to welcome for four quarters number six, Greg White from Bentonville West High School in Arkansas. Greg. Welcome back.

Greg White: [00:01:39] Hey, it’s good to be here. This has been a lot of fun though.

I hope people aren’t getting tired of hearing this.

Mike Klinzing: [00:01:45] I can’t believe we’re at number six and your seventh total episode. I think you’ve definitely taken the lead on most appearances on the Hoop Heads Pod. So if nothing else, you can stick that on your resume at some point.

Greg White: [00:01:56] It actually is on my resume.

[00:02:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:02:01] Not that that will be worth the paper that it’s printed on, but at any rate.

Greg White: [00:02:04] Wow. Well it’s out there now so…

Mike Klinzing: [00:02:06] All right. That’s good. We’re not killing any trees in sending out the resume. So that’s a positive. All right. Let’s begin with quarter number one where in many cases around the country, no AAU basketball, though.

It seems like there are going to be some states that are now allowing some form of a new basketball to be played. Just explain what you think the impact will be with a lot of places in the country not being able to play any AAU this summer.

Greg White: [00:02:35] Mike, let’s clear something up. I think I’ve come across to a lot of people as being anti AAU basketball on every level. There’s so many good AAU programs. I’ve actually got a blog coming out this week on why we need AAU, for this very reason. Like right now, there is no AAU, which means it’s a really hard on [00:03:00] recruiting. College coaches are having most of the good ones.

Are ahead, like, they’re really not. I think they’re only time on some staff things, some staff development, but most of them aren’t the panic was, what about this class? Well, the guys that are doing their job already had this class identified, I mean, yeah, there may be a sleeper here and there, but I think we need AAU for a few reasons.

Number one is it’s best on best. You know, when you look, you think the EYBL and those guys it’s the best on best. You get to see the best players go head to head in a lot of, in a lot of games. The second thing is and you guys know I’m big on this. Mostly tournaments play the shot clock.

You know, Once the Federation gets on board Georgia just passed it, Arkansas votes until the Federation. I tell guys this, if you hate summer [00:04:00] basketball, then have a shot clock in my school. And I tell the summer club coaches keep having a shot clock because that’s what separates you from high school basketball, you know?

And so I think we need it. I think we’re going to see a drop in skill I’m speaking for, I’ve had players that have had not played, but had a great summer of workouts. And then I’ve had players that play and come back as a totally different player. I think you’re going to see a little bit of a drop off in the high school season by not having AAU, because you know, whatever your restrictions are in your state.

you know, for us, we can’t have competition right now in competition itself and competition breeds better competition. So no way there going to be, it’s going to be a bigger thing then people think, I know there’s probably people like what, who is this guy? You know, they’re checking there.

He’ll be looking at the podcast title to make sure it’s me. Cause. You know, for a while everybody thought I was anti AAU, but I’m just anti bad basketball. I’m anti people that take advantage of parents and kids, whether it’s high school [00:05:00] coaches or it’s club coaches. but I think we need it. And I think we’re going to see some not only college, part of missing scholarships or things like that.

But I do think you’re going to see some kids come back, not as prepared as they could have been.

Mike Klinzing: [00:05:16] Yeah. I agree with you there a hundred percent. I think I look at, The kids that I know just in my local area and my son’s going to be a freshman this year. And he misses out on his entire AAU. And at this point he played his last competitive basketball game against other people in February.

And now he’s, he’s not going to play again, provided that we even have a season. He’s not going to play again until. November and yeah, he’s right now here in the state of Ohio, they just opened up what we’re calling phase two, where there can be inter intersquad competition where they can play against one another within the confines of their own team.

And then the next step would [00:06:00] be to be able to go and play against other teams from. Other from this local area, but I don’t know if we’re going to get to that phase or who knows who went out and we’re going backwards based on the news that we’re hearing now about the number of cases that are out there, but for my son and for kids who are like him, that finished their season at the end of the high school year, and now they may not have played a competitive game.

And I know you and I have had the conversation about our kids play too many games. And I think in a lot of cases, that’s true, but in this case, When they haven’t played at all, there’s no way that even though I don’t care how hard you’re working on your skills as a high school athlete during the summertime, you still have to be able to play some games, whether that’s pickup games or that’s AAU games.

If you’re not playing against live competition for six months, seven months, whatever it’s going to be in between seasons. I think you’re right. That you’re going to come back and you’re going to see a decided lack of skill development, a lack of basketball IQ that you, the kids are just [00:07:00] missing out on.

You’re never going to get these as a 14, 15, 16 year old kid. You’re never getting these seven months back of what would have been AAU basketball.

Greg White: [00:07:07] No, you’re correct. And I think, I think we’re going to see the change in the recruiting landscape. I think there’ll be more of a, not really a balance, but I think there’ll be more diversity and recruiting where you’re going to see high school summer, summer team camps, or you’re going to be a bigger thing for it with the coaches.

I think there’s always going to be some of the, The big, the big tournaments, what I would call me  and that’s the thing too. Like the summer guys get a bad rap and and I’m guilty of it too. Cause I laugh and I see AAU bingo. But you know, the funny thing is you never see the good AAU guys on that.

And that’s what I tell people is like, AAU is kind of a catchall, it’s like you don’t call it record Cadillac. you know, like Mokan. It is a very prestigious Nike team and we’ve [00:08:00] had a player play for them and I’m in contact with their coaches trying to find players that we could send to them and know on the girls side is a program here that, like those dudes those coaches are, I mean, they’re good as gold, they work hard, they care about kids.

And so I think it’s kind of a big umbrella, but I’ll tell you this, like, The programs that you know, are doing it for the right reasons or are doing the same things. The high school programs are doing. They’re not out breaking the rule. You know, we’re gonna know we’re in a non-competition part of our state right now as well.

And those guys are practicing I mean, they’re there, they weren’t, they’re doing what’s right for kids. And those are the ones you want to associate with. And those are the guys I’m going to miss. When Mokan played in our area, I’d always go watch them practice. you know, I’d get plays from them.

I have their playbook. I mean, it’s, those are the guys that you missing. and I think that’s what we’re going to miss from this time, this quarantine right now.

Mike Klinzing: [00:08:58] Yeah. I think there’s no doubt, Greg. That [00:09:00] what is really important. And I think it goes to whether you’re a high school coach, whether you’re an AAU coach, when your focus is on what’s best for the kids that are part of your program, then you’re going to end up making the kind of decisions that you and I, as defenders of the game of basketball are going to be okay with because they’re kids centered.

And right now, If your kid’s centered, you’re following the protocols, whatever those protocols are, your priority is keeping kids healthy and safe. And following the regulations that are set forth by your state government and by the CDC and whatever other health authorities are out there that are issuing the regulations of what you should be doing.

And I think what we do get back the programs that follow the rules and the programs that have coaches that care about kids. Those are the ones that as a high school coach, you want to send your players to. And as a parent of a player, you want to seek out and figure out and find out who are the reputable people in your [00:10:00] area that are doing things correctly.

And those are the programs and coaches that you want to send your kids to when it comes time for AAU, whether that be some salvation of whatever’s left of this summer, or certainly the summers moving forward.

Narrator: [00:10:16] The first quarter is in the books.

Mike Klinzing: [00:10:19] All right. It is time for quarter number two. What you have learned since the pandemic has shut us down on March 13th?

Greg White: [00:10:28] So I actually, I started a list. if mostly I know most of your listeners will know who coach Mike Neighbor’s  University of Arkansas. He he’s become really good friend of mine, a mentor, a guy I can. He can red team a lot of things for me, I try to be involved and I love watching his program and everything, but just one of the  things we’ve talked about is where he may list what we’ve learned. And I think the biggest one is this. There’s always somebody out there with more information than you have, [00:11:00] and that’s the hard part.

About coaching. It’s a report about guys that want to be in control of things. I’ve learned. The word list means more to me than anything right now. I’ve been trying to string on everything in my life, in my basketball life. just less clutter, really be colorizing everything.

Becoming more organized. I’ve always thought I did a pretty good job of it and I’m trying to get even better at it. Cleaning up and, and really that’s been, the big thing I’ve learned is just the information is out there. Our job is to try to go find it and then, and then when we find it, what are we going to do with it?

One of the, one of the things that’s kind of funny, better form of words, better use of words, trying to make sure I can communicate clear. You know, I love, there’s a football coach here in the state of Arkansas. His name is Rick Jones and one of the smartest people, he was  with the high [00:12:00] school and they were a power.

Now he’s on the staff in in Missouri. I know Mike has studied a lot. And so I started kind of just digging through some things with Coach Jones and, it’s intriguing to me how a football coach can say four words and move 11 players, you know? And so I I’ve started trying to, we like talking about better choice of words, better form of words.

Mike had made a comment. If you can only ask one question, what would it be? And so that teaches you to ask better questions and then not just for people you’re talking to about basketball or anything else, how you talk to your players, what do you want your players? How do you want to teach your players to question?

So I think I have two words I’ve really fallen back on efficiency and less, and I think they kind of go together. We’ve been doing a lot of word association example is what’s the difference in constant. And consistent you really gotta study it and you gotta [00:13:00] think, can you go look at yourself, look at your program and look at how you speak.

And I’ve tried to stop using the word right. As an answer for correct. Just for a simple example is if a player says, don’t give me go left. And I say, right. And he just, it looks at me when I’m going to spend 20 seconds. No, no, no. Yeah. You know, and so why not word now? They must sell faster. That me, myself, where I can talk less and practice.

And I know people listen, right. And everyone says you talk all the time, but less and being more efficient, has been the biggest thing I’ve learned through all this time right now.

Mike Klinzing: [00:13:35] Yeah. That makes a ton of sense to me. It kind of goes along when you shared this with me and just hearing you talk right now, what comes to my mind and what I’ve learned since we’ve shut down is one I’ve learned how valuable time is.

And when I think about how valuable time is. I realized that during the time when I’m working and podcasting and being a [00:14:00] father and running a basketball business and doing all the other things that I’d like to do that my time is really at a premium. And what this shutdown has allowed me to do is to be able to step back from that fullness of my schedule, that busy-ness of my schedule, and really look at how I’m spending my time and what I’m spending my time on, doing it to your point about efficiency, looking at. How can I be more efficient with how I allocate my time? And so what I’ve tried to do is look at I’ve always had I’m kind of a self improvement guy. So I like reading those, those kinds of books and figuring out how I could implement better systems or how I could be more productive and how I can grow as a person.

And so that’s one of the things with more time that I’ve started to look at is. What are the systems that I try to operate in. And so I’ve taken to try to do some journaling. I’ve taken to try to do some meditation. I’ve taken to try to get organized on what are the [00:15:00] things that I need to get done today.

And don’t let the distractions of the day take me away from what my most important goals are. And then the other thing that goes along with this is I’ve also, I think, learned to value the time with the people in my life that I care about. And sometimes you get into the. The crux of you’re going to work.

You’re, you’re teaching all day and then you come home and you got this and this kid’s got to go to practice. And this one, we got to go here and then it’s time for homework. And then before it it’s time for bed. And then I got to go to sleep and get up and do it all over again. Or I’ve got to do a podcast.

And so I think mwhen you talk about efficiency and time, those are two things that I’ve learned that I think. Are going to help me when we get back to normal, whenever that is, that I’m going to be able to carry forward and make myself better. And I think that that ultimately to me, when I saw that topic that you shared about what you’ve learned, the first thing that struck me was people who have taken advantage of this time are going to come out on the other [00:16:00] side of it so much stronger because they’ve taken the time to self reflect.

And that’s what it’s all about to me.

Greg White: [00:16:06] Oh, so I will give you four fast nuggets inside or four quarters about that. So the first one is, there’s a book called Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke that I would recommend every coach on any level read. And I could talk an hour on it. It’s a great book.

It’s probably saved my coaching career. That’ll be a conversation we get into off the air is that I said I could talk on that on it. It’d be number one. then number two, Alan Stein spoke on zoom with us. And he made a comment, are you waiting to come out of this or are you preparing to come out of it?

And I think that’s, that’s a nugget that everyone needs to kind of think about right now. The third nugget, Kevin Easton, we all like and love [00:17:00] really the motivated people and the successful people. Don’t do time management, they do priority management. And when he’s looking at it like that, that’s as good as can be. It’s a gospel if you think about it like that. And then the fourth one, like I said, I’ve spent a lot of time visiting and listening to Coach Neighbors, during this time and really the past few years has he been here, but he made a comment a couple of weeks ago that was outstanding. We’re all trying to chase a balance in life. There’s no balance. You’re talking about better form of work. When you think of balance. First thing I think is a skill that’s perfectly even. There’s no balance in coaching. There’s no balance in anyone chasing success. There’s a rhythm.

Now, when you look at, think about a rhythm and you own your mind right now, up and down, up and down, and I’ll ask him, come in and crash, but our lives have rhythms and right now we were kind of out of rhythm. [00:18:00] college coaches were used to be on the road. High school coaches were used to kind of relaxing or now club coaches were used to taking off.

This is their time to be traveling and and that rhythm got wrecked. But when we, when we have whatever normal is sort of the new normal. No, if you chase balance, you’re just going to beat yourself up. you’ve got to find a rhythm the same as you understand the rhythm, you know that in January and February, like there’s not a lot of sleep.

There’s not a lot of time. There’s more conversation at my house in those two months , you know? but I thought that was one of the most profound things I’ve heard during the scope, it was quit chasing balance and find rhythm.

Mike Klinzing: [00:18:37] there’s no doubt that we all have those times where things.

Just need to get done. And then there’s other times where you can afford to slow down. And like you said, if you’re a high school basketball coach or you’re a college basketball coach, you get used to the rhythm of your monthly schedule, your yearly schedule and how things are going to go. And this is the time when I got to really put my nose to the grindstone and [00:19:00] here’s the time where I can catch my breath and maybe do some planning behind the scenes and all those things.

And so when you think about this time now, I think about again, stepping back and evaluating the way that I’ve organized my life, both professionally and personally. And that’s what I really feel like it’s afforded me time to be able to do. And then hopefully just like Alan Stein said, I’m preparing that when this is over, I’m going to have these new systems in place that are going to help me to be even more efficient, even more functional once things are back to normal because I’ve put some time in reflecting when I had the time to be able to do that because a lot of times we just don’t have time to step back the way we have during this shutdown period. None of us have the kind of time in our, in our personal professional lives that we’ve had over the last five or six months.

We just haven’t.

Greg White: [00:19:56]  Well, I think what we sound is we’ve [00:20:00] cut out the distractions. I’ve worked more. It’s sad to say this, but I’ve worked more this past March, April, May, then I’d probably have in my entire career in those three months, because those were my time to recharge, wind down, catch up and now I don’t have distractions.

My home office is literally in the backside of my living room right now. And you know, my kids aren’t going to bother me. Cause they don’t they’re afraid I’m on Evans. I’m going to make him watch film or something. So no one’s walking by the office on a job. I haven’t had to go do lunch duty.

I mean, I’ve just worked like I’ve had uninterrupted work and and I think now when a game, when we go back to school in the fall, hopefully like not that I won’t have time, I’ll just understand how important that time is, and that’s something that we’ve talked to our staff about that we’ve talked about everything about.

We’ve all got the time. It’s just, we’ve got to protect that time. Either going to [00:21:00] invest it wasted or protect it. That’s what, this is three things you have your time, you invest, you protect or you waste.

Mike Klinzing: [00:21:06] Yeah. It comes down to, like you said, with, from Coach Neighbors, you gotta prioritize. And if you have priorities and that’s actually one of the things that I’ve tried to do during this time is prioritize.

Okay. Here are the three things that professionally I need to get done today. And so when I start finding myself doing something else, I have it written down. I can look and go, okay, this isn’t my priority. It might be something that’s come in an email or something that I got to answer, but it’s not my priority.

So I got to go back and look at my priority. And I think when you start spending your time on your priorities, then you start becoming more productive without having to put more time. And you just end up spending your time on things that are more important to you. Ultimately your success, whether that’s success professionally or whether that’s success, however you want to define it in your personal life.

Greg White: [00:21:53] Yeah. And I think that’s what we’ve all found out is what we can live with what [00:22:00] matters to us and how we’re going to keep that the priority you know, when whatever, I ain’t seen going back to normal because, I don’t want to go back to it. I don’t, I don’t want to go back to wasting my time.

One of the things I’ve done is I’d love to read, but I always never found time to read because I didn’t have time why it does. I’m sure. I read 30 minutes a day now. And because I said it myself 30 minutes to read and, and that means I turn my phone off. I get away from it.

I go sit in a different part of the house or read outside. I don’t know. I can listen to audio book, you know what I’m doing? Walk around the neighborhood, things like that. Just like. I’m kind of excited to go back, not just because it’s normal or whatever you want to call it, but I’m excited to go back and share with people, okay, this is, this is who we are now.

This is what we should be we’d be cluttered. I think that’d be the number one thing I’d tell you. I think I’ve learned is just [00:23:00] what I didn’t need. I don’t miss it. And what I missed was the interaction with the kids and things like that. But. There’s some things that I was able to just get rid of that were wasting my time that were taking time for me.

Now I invest my time and I protect my time. Well, I think it’s going to make us a better coach.

Narrator: That was the halftime Buzzer. Let’s take a quick break

Mike Klinzing: [00:23:31] coaches. We’ve teamed up with  analytics so you can now purchase three of their exclusive new playbooks. If you’re looking for ways to improve your team next season, these playbooks blend affordability with the quality content that serious coaches are looking for. Just visit who peds And you’ll find playbooks from coach Don show Walter of USA basketball.

Coach Mike Flynn from the Illawarra Hawks in Australia who coached lamella ball last season and coach Tyler Whitcomb from West [00:24:00] Michigan aviation Academy. Check out these great slash store.

Let’s move on to quarter number three, we talked about this a little bit before we jumped on what happens if we don’t play? What happens if high school sports doesn’t come back for this entire school year?

Greg White: [00:24:23] I’ll share with people like the biggest complaint right now.

And this is time we’ll talk about in fourth quarter too. But my biggest complaint is people that don’t plan. I mean, what have you been doing for the last 90 days? You know, I’ve been sitting here like thinking people will tell you I’m negative by design. you know, I’ve got about four doomsday plans right now, that I know that are complete and I’m working on about seven, meaning if we’re told, Hey, you can’t play, I have a plan to hand or AD’s and or [00:25:00] directors, everything that says, well, what about this?

You know, because. I mean, nobody knew what was coming with this. There was no way we and you could tell, we could see what was happening, Italy. We could see what’s that no one that no one knew, you know? And we went through, I think teachers did a great job. I know some people were not happy with them, but there’s no one ever taught me how to teach in a pandemic.

No one was prepared for it. And I think we did invest and we’re going to be better. And, but the thing is like, what happens if we don’t play football in the fall? I know you see it every day. There’s colleges dropping programs what you would call a minor sport.

I mean, I think all sports are important cause it’s important that those athletes and as coaches. I don’t, it kind of bothers me that we’re already making decisions like that, that far ahead, but I, but that alarms me that, Hey, this could be something else. you know, we’re ready on the clock in July [00:26:00] and I’ve never been more excited.

I love the TDT for him. Fran Fraschilla has been a good friend of mine and I’m excited for him to be calling games. And I love that. I’ve never been more excited about TBT because I want let, just cause I miss basketball on TV, but  I want to see them succeed. I want to see say safe and I want a bit and that cyber leave that.

Okay, we can do this, you know? And then in the NBA and Major League Baseball going back. I mean, we all know if we don’t play football in the fall, it’s a real chance, a real possibility that we won’t have basketball. And selfishly, my youngest son, Evan’s a senior this year and he missed, he missed the last half of his junior season.

He took a charge and had a, had a major concussion. he had just been cleared. By that when the state tournament  started, but the predicament we were in was if you play, you get hit again, you could miss your senior year. So [00:27:00] he opted not supported as dad coach will under play, but as his dad, we set out we lose an hour sitting here thinking we gambled that there would be a senior year now you’re sitting here like, man what if, what if he never played in high school again? And so there’s just so many negative thoughts that can creep in. but I think you’ve got to use those negative thoughts to prepare whatever, if your superintendent comes you and says I’m not planning, or do you have an answer to send to your state association?

That at least makes sense. You know, like if there’s other options and safety for the athletes. So we all know that. But there there’s that possibility like this is the longest most of us have ever been in art. Well, it is the longest that we’ve not had sports in our life and there’s such a void in society and you can feel it.

I mean, when people if someone’s ever so a sport, it’s not a [00:28:00] life or death, it’s not life or death, but it is life and it’s a life for a lot. I mean, I’ve seen sports save lives. I mean, I’ve seen it save a young man’s life, a young woman’s life. And so it’s not life or death, but it is life and it’s life giving and it gives life to communities.

There’s some small towns all across our country that Friday night, the town you turn the lights off, lock the doors, cause we’re all going to the game. You know, I want that back for those towns. I want to go to a high school football game. I want to go to high school volleyball game. I just want to be still that, that sense of community and support and, and safety that it’s okay to go back to living life, what we’re used to and what we’d love and what we miss.

And so I don’t know. And it’s we, we talked a little bit, there’s days that I’m  Debbie Downer, we’re never gonna play again. You know, what are we doing? Why am I spending all this time? [00:29:00] Improving myself as a coach, I’m never going to coach another game, you know? And then there’s days that I’m like, Oh, it’s going to it’s going to work out, we’re gonna beat this thing.

So I think the big answer is we, if we don’t play with what’s our next step, like how do we class of 2020 went through a ton of stuff. A lot of those guys lost their senior year. What happens if the class of 2021 loses everything? You know, I guess that’s the things I worry about as a dad. I feel we got great people in our state, and I know that other States associations are going to make great decisions and you know, we’re gonna, we’re gonna do what’s best for kids.

Mike Klinzing: [00:29:43] What’s one option. Just give us one thing that you think of as a proposal. If the state of Arkansas says, we’re not going to play basketball this winter, what’s something that you might suggest that could possibly be an alternative.

Greg White: [00:29:58] So the first thing, the one that was sent [00:30:00] out and I’ve already sent this out, my AD has a copy.

All the schools in, Arkansas is different than I know, and it wouldn’t work for every landscape, but I’ll say what we’re doing just so you kind of get your wheels turning. I’m staying inside County. You know, for us, there are eight. Eight schools that are similar in size. So, I mean, there are four,  six, eight schools, there is a, of a school three, Whoa.

Yeah, they’re close enough. I think it’s, I think from one into the other is 40 minutes. That’s what I put down on our, I looked it up and, Anyway, you don’t have to use buses. Parents can drive kids. You play boys at one side girls, another that’s to limit the number of people in the gym. Parents can still in watch.

You know, it’s not ideal places, even in Arkansas, there’s some counties that have one school, they would have to leave their County, but you know, [00:31:00] well, I don’t want,  why would I want a small school to play a big school? To play. Basketball is a sport where it’s not a manpower sport. Yeah. I mean, at that point you just want to play, you don’t want to say nothing.

I mean and I don’t think, I don’t know who a coach am. I agree. And I know other coaches around the country, like. If you’re the guy that you’re playing a small school, beaten up, come on, man. Like you just want them to see kids play and smile and feel normal. You know, you don’t play hard and you know, there’s gonna be games you’re going to have to but those are games that those subs that never get to play in your normal conference would get deployed.

And it would be a memory for everybody involved, you know? And, and I’ve actually looked, I’ve talked to the guys in other parts of the state, you need to have this plan just in case. You know, another, another one we’ve talked about is backing everything up to January. You know, let’s give us a couple of months of getting to school and getting things, not putting don’t play football in the fall.

Start athletics. January [00:32:00] would be just your conference, basketball. You know, you might can start practicing the week after Christmas or, and it’s, these are none of these are idea, but these are just doing state plan. So play your conference January, February, you finished in mid March. Mid-March you start track baseball, softball, soccer whatever other sports those guys would go mid-March through March all the way through April, May one, you start your football season.

You play in during the spring and you play may into June. Everyone shuts down July and you come back to school in August, hopefully, and get back on stream. But those are just like, Those are those plans that you hope you never have to come to, but it’s also like, I just do my CPR during the day. I hope I never use it but I’ve done it and I prepared, but I hope I never use it.

So maybe instead of doomsday planes, which come CPR plans or something it’s, it’s one of those things. I’ve had a lot of time to think about a lot of things. [00:33:00] One of those is how can we ensure we get the point. Those are just a couple ideas I had.

Mike Klinzing: [00:33:05] Absolutely. I think the key there is just being proactive and trying to think about it, because like you said, it’s easier.

It’s easy to put your head in the sand and say, Oh, we’re definitely gonna play. But the reality is, is that none of us, none of us know, and none of us have a firm grasp on what’s going to happen moving forward and where we’re going to be in terms of the number of cases and how people are feeling and the public sentiment and all this kind of thing.

And so hopefully you’re not the only person out there that is putting together some proactive plans, trying to figure out what this whole thing could potentially look like. Should we come to a realization that a normal quote, normal season isn’t possible. Well then can we look at alternatives that can at least give the kids a chance to play, which ultimately is what we want to do.

We just think about how I can’t even imagine for a [00:34:00] kid who was a spring athlete in 2020, and you don’t get to play your senior year of high school. Like that doesn’t come back. You don’t get it back and thinking about your son, Evan, and if basketball’s canceled and he doesn’t get to play his entire senior season, like five years from now,  there’s nothing there.

He looks back on it. He doesn’t have those memories. And that’s, I think where you have to start looking at how can we, If we can’t play a normal season, how can we replace that with something that at least gives kids an opportunity to be able to participate again with the caveat that whatever decision would be made would be made with the health and safety of the student athletes at the forefront of that decision?

Greg White: [00:34:42] No. And that’s the thing like, no, one’s going to fault a parent for saying, Hey, my son, my son or daughter taking part in this It’s we’ve started workouts. We’ve had great attendance because I think kids want to be back in gym. The hardest part is keep making them not be kids. [00:35:00] No, it’s not.

I mean, they come in, they wear their mask. They won’t say they test, they sign in, they do other testing, they take their mask off, they get on the floor, they get a sweat going and they just, they just want to talk to each other and they want to hang out and and you’re like, no, You outta here, you can’t sit and talk and that’s the hardest part, but I mean, that’s been the, the strange part for me.

I mean, they come in, their kids are resilient. They’re going to do what they’re supposed to do, but it’s been interesting to watch as a dad. My son Hayden came home from college at spring break and never went back and those guys. I, I just finished a book earlier, this quarantine called Generation Z Unfiltered, by Tim Elmore, who does a great job this group, man, these kids were coaching right now and the ones coming behind them.

You know that they’re kind of the Homelanders is how you described them. They’ve all grew up. They were all born after nine 11. So they’ve [00:36:00] never, they’ve never lived in a world without terrorism. From kindergarten, they’ve always had active shooter drills. I mean, these kids don’t mind being at home.

I mean, they feel safer in their own house, you know? I mean, and so it’s seeing some of these guys like open up the kids that were quiet, the kids that didn’t really, I wouldn’t say didn’t have personality, but had a more reserved personality and they’re laughing and wanting to be around.

Like, I really think something good is coming from in this. I mean, it’s hard for me. To not look at I’m talking about this a minute, but I really seal there’s something good when we come out and COVID the time of way. I think it’s going to reconnect people. I hope there’s some changes in education.

I think it’s going to be a time that we look back at. And say, man, now how crazy was that? But I think it’s something we’re going to be glad that made some changes for us.

[00:37:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:36:59] I agree. And I think it goes back to the earlier conversations that we’ve had, that people who have gone into this with the idea that I’m going to look at it as an opportunity rather than looking at it as a problem.

I think those are the people that are gonna come out stronger. And I think generally speaking, those are going to be people who are going to lead on the way out. And as they lead on the way out, we are going to see change. We are going to see progress. We are going to see things are going to be different.

I think there’s going to be an appreciation for some of the things that have been taken away from us. And I think that is the reality.

Narrator: [00:37:34] All right, listeners, it’s time for the fourth quarter.

Mike Klinzing: [00:37:38] How do we see change in the world? Clearly the pandemic which we’ve been talking about for the first three quarters has impacted us as coaches, it’s impacted sports in a huge way, but we also have this greater social issue within our country. And clearly it’s spread not only here, here, but throughout the world [00:38:00] with police brutality, black lives matter, the presidency and all the ramifications that go with the things that people feel about, whether wherever you stand politically.

But I think what we wanted to talk about was how do we make meaningful change? Because we can talk all we want, but what really matters is how can we go about changing some of the things that we want to see changed?

Greg White: [00:38:29] I thought, well first thing I’ll say is this I I’m, I’m pro you know, I’m pro police officer.

I think those people put themselves on the line for their community every day they step they step out and I think it’s, it’s an honorable job. But, but I was saying that anyone that watched the video of, of George Floyd and wasn’t stirred as a human, I [00:39:00] was disgusted. I mean, I can see it in my mind right now, talking to you that that’s not, that’s not a police officer.

That was hatred in that. And I was and it was murder. and you know, and that, what I hate is that one, and I know there’s been other instances, but the boiling point and awakening for a lot of people like, Hey, there, well, this needs to be talked about. And. You know,  we mentioned this before we came on.

I think everyone wants to see change. No one wants to be told that to change that I think, but everyone wants to see change. And, and I mean, I’m a guy that’s growing up in the South, my entire life. you know, I had a conversation with acoach that about prejudice. He, he told me, so you don’t understand that.

So actually I do understand prejudice because.  I was a white guy going to the [00:40:00] park I had to prove I can pull that off. I said I understand prejudice, but I don’t understand the fear that you have. You know, if a cop ever pulls me over, my biggest fear is where’s my registration.

It’s not and so we’ve, we’ve, I’ve talked to people more than I have in the past. I would say with my current players and some former players about it of. How, how I can, how I can learn. I think a big thing, all of us have got to understand. We’ve got to quit listening to respond and we have to listen to learn.

And that’s I have a reputation of being outspoken on Twitter at times, and there and I’ve learned now that I read. I think, and I research, because I have so many good things in my life that I don’t I don’t have to argue with somebody about things and  I don’t seek out the [00:41:00] conflict, but with this, I think it touched on so many levels and with so many different people, that there isn’t, I mean, we’re obviously we’re in a place in a place for change and.

There’s so many easy targets to complain about. And I don’t care if you love Trump. If you hate Trump, I don’t care if you love Biden or hate Biden. I don’t care if you love Obama and I’ve told you this mile, my personal life didn’t really, it changed much from president Bush to president Obama, to president Trump

Yeah. and you know, it was cause you’re a white guy. Well, maybe it is. I don’t know, but my life didn’t change that much in them. My life changes when there are changes in local government. I mean, if you want to see if you want to see real change, the first person you got to start with yourself and what you’re saying, but if you want to see real change in our world, it’s, you know what I mean?

People have to get to think like me to change the White House. Oh, I mean a [00:42:00] lot, but change starts. I heard Frank Martin say this all the time and he’s one of the few, and maybe there’s more, but I can promise you that man talks about education being answered more than any other division one coach that I keep up with.

And I think it starts education change. Get involved with your school board, get involved with who’s going to be sheriff of your County, get involved with who’s going to be mayor get involved with state representatives and then your governor, because. Yeah, we, we see the big picture and doing it wrong out of the white house that I just like, I mean, Twitter’s going a lot shorter.

It’s got to love the man. What are you agreeing to? Not like, I mean, it’s a show, but it’s one of those, like, I understand that that puts out a climate in a mentality for a lot of people, but my daily life is affected by what’s going on in my community and it starts with myself and then everything around.

And so. I don’t know what the answer is. [00:43:00] I mean we’re going to have an election November, regardless of the outcome we’ve had, there’s been issues with race. I mean, since the beginning of our country I mean the precedent. Whether it, whether it’s right now the current guy, whether it’s the next guy, whether it was we’ve always had that underlying issue.

Well, one of the things worries, I think is, cause there’s no education about it because in my, in my, experience, I didn’t have a, I don’t have an African American professor until I got to college. Well in high school, it was never really talked about because that’s one of those taboo subjects. You know, and like right now I read that saying about, and I was talking to a friend about this with all the Confederate statutes being torn down and everything and you know, and I get that and it’s, it’s a negative, nasty part of [00:44:00] her, but I don’t want to forget the Confederacy.

Now I’ll tell you this. I grew up in the South. I’ve never once been like, Oh, that’s my heritage. I remember one. The Confederate flag. I mean, I don’t, you have anything for heritage for four years or less? I mean like the band Nirvana lasted longer than the Confederacy. I mean, it’s like not around long enough, I think to be a heritage thing.

That’s just my topic I’m ranting there, but anyway, That stuff like I get it, but I don’t want to forget that. And I want people to talk about the evils of it. You know, I know I read a thing yesterday that in Germany, kids are reminded of how bad the Nazis were and they take them to the concentration camps and show them the evils.

I mean, we got, I was a history major  so I read all this stuff. I’ve been through all that. I understand it, but you’re normal. I say your normal everyday citizen doesn’t have a clue about things because they don’t talk because it’s sensitive and you don’t want to, [00:45:00] we need to stop waiting to offend people about things now and be offensive in, in a educational setting and teach what happens.

I don’t know if you know this, the ABC put out one of their free Martins ahead of the committee on race relations. He put date. They made a suggestion. I looked up how to get certified in it. I haven’t taught history in nine years. I would teach this class African American history because some people don’t know and they don’t want to know.

They don’t want to talk about it. And you don’t. And I told people this, I can’t, I don’t understand, but I want to, and the best way for me to understand is to learn. And the root of every, every issue we have is education. It’s understanding and learning. I saw a lot of, some people and face to face, looks, more family stuff and all that, but there’s a lot of people I follow on there, educated college professors. Anyway, I see them put a post that says, [00:46:00] if you don’t think, like, I think I’m from that’s what we’re doing. That’s what we’re in the problem we’re in. Because if you only surround yourself with people that think like you. Then you don’t know what other people say, can you don’t have your bubble is there in it?

And it blows your mind. I want somebody in my circle that challenges what I said, I want somebody that I have a difference of opinion because that’s how I get better. And that’s how I get smarter. And that’s how I learn things. And you know what we can, we can and disagree. Okay. Still going to be your friend, and I’m still gonna love you and I’m going to learn.

You see it all over the place. You know, if you don’t agree with me, then I’m going to block you. I’m going to follow you. I’m gonna cut you off. No, if you don’t agree with me, I want to listen to your side and I want to learn from you. And you know, when you, when you talking about police brutality and everything, and I think a lot of that just comes back to lack of education, a lack of.

[00:47:00] Understanding and the lack of empathy. you know, I’ve been keeping up with it. I mean, I can get, I’ve been trying to learn more, it’s a sad time, but I think again, it’s a time of change, you know? I mean, there’s, there’s obviously things that I don’t agree with. but there’s things I, that I can kind of understand and want to understand more and that’s one of the things.

Being a coach. I think we have to work at that. It was, I was watching before we got on tonight and a former Navy seal made a comment, earn the right to be in the lane you’re in. And that means about working hard outwork people. If you’re a coach listening to this.

Earned the right to that title every single day. Not this one today, you were in the interview, not the day you got your degree. You not the day, you you’ve got your club [00:48:00] set up. You have to earn the right to be in the lane. You’re in every day and that’s through education. I, if I go into conversation with someone, I want to be either the only time I go in not knowing is so I come out knowing.

If I’m going to, if you call me, let’s have a conversation about any topic. I’m going to try to be ahead of it because I want to be educated about it. I want to ask the right questions. I want to listen, but I think, I think right now, like our country is so unstable. and again, I mean, whatever side you want to vote on, I mean, I get that.

That’s fine to take that out. I heard, I heard Michael Lewis. He was one of my favorite authors wrote Moneyball has a great podcast called against the rules. I heard him make a comment the other day, our country reminds him of a poorly coached team, tons of talent and a lot of bad leadership. And I think, and you [00:49:00] take it how you want to.

I take it as there’s bad leadership on both sides. I made the comment this other day and I’ll say this, the last thing I say on my waiting list, we’ll talk some more. Our country has given us Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Larry Bird, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice. And the list goes on and on and on.

These are the best two candidates for president we can get, come on. You know, I mean like, I mean, I’ve seen I’m a sports guy. I’ve seen the Mount Rushmore of sports come out of our country and this is all I got to choose from. Like, come on, man. Like, so. I just, I keep thinking maybe there’s going to be greatness come out of this.

you know, it’s been a weird situation it’s, it’s been eyeopening. it’s been, it’s been tear-jerking, it’s been angry. but I love how much has been shared with coaches. I love. I’m learning about people that don’t look like me, that people don’t, that didn’t grow up. and the big thing is [00:50:00] just keep fall back on the of, but it’s just, you gotta educate yourself.

You got to learn and the way you are and you listen and then, but I think then you got to take what you learn and you have to implement that in your life. And you got you kind of want to change and you gotta want to make changes that.

Mike Klinzing: [00:50:19] All right. I’m going to echo a couple of things and just kind of try to put a bow on it. And I agree with you a hundred percent that becoming educated about the history of racial race relations in our country is critically important. There’s plenty of historical events and things that happened in the past that I was unaware of that I.

Would never have been taught in school growing up. And I think those are things. Those are mistakes that we have to fix. So becoming educated is number one. How do you become educated? You listen. [00:51:00] And I think that is critically important that when someone else is talking, when someone else is sharing, you have to listen to what they have to say.

And I think in our country, a lot of times, especially in the political arena, we have people talking and people on the other side who are for whatever reason, ideologically opposed don’t listen. And when you do listen, you have to listen then with an open mind, With the idea that somebody can challenge your thought process.

And that doesn’t mean you give in to every idea that comes your way, but it does mean, it does mean that you have to stop and you have to think about what’s being said, and you have to analyze it. And I know for me, if I just think about this whole situation and with George Floyd and the protests and everything that’s gone on, I think what it’s done for me is.

It’s made me stop and try to put myself into another person’s [00:52:00] shoes and look at it from a different perspective. And you talked about what was going through your mind when there’s a traffic stop, and you’re just hoping you can find your insurance card and your driver’s license. And that’s your biggest worry.

At no time in my life and I’m sure in yours, did you ever worry about losing your life as a result of a traffic stop when you haven’t done anything, besides the speeding and yet for the African American population in our country, that’s a reality. Every single day, that’s a conversation that they have to have. And I think I’ve heard that said before, but I think that this situation has made me process and internalize more.

Of what that means. And now I start to see situations where I don’t think I would have seen them in the same way before, when I see an African American [00:53:00] walking down the street. I never would’ve thought twice about that, but now I think could that person be nervous? Could they be. Worried that, Hey, they’re not supposed to be here.

And could that result in something that could take away their freedom or even take away their life in some cases. And so I think what it comes down to is, as you said, if we want to make change, we have to educate ourselves. We have to listen. We have to keep an open mind and then you have to take action and taking action could mean.

Participating in the protest, it could mean voting with whatever your conscience is when it comes to the elections this fall. And hopefully if you have a majority of people doing those things, being open-minded being educated, trying to learn from one another, then you’re going to start to be able to see meaningful change.

And I think the fact that the protest have taken [00:54:00] on. The large number of people that they have, and people of all different ages of all different races that have participated in it. I think it shows you that there’s a desire for things to change. Now, what we all need to do is figure out how do we move the needle to make those changes.

And that’s what I’m hoping comes out of the situation is that we are able to make. Our country, the world, our neighborhood, if we want to get down to the local level, which is what you talked about it, how do we make our neighborhood, our city, our state, our country, and that our world, how do we make it a better place for everybody?

And I think that that really is the key is to be able to be educated, listen, have an open mind and then figure out what needs to be done to make change.

Greg White: [00:54:50] We’re in a day where we can get information to fingertip in a second. [00:55:00] And we, which is an awesome thing.

It’s also a very horrible thing. Like I had at a senior day, I saw where somebody posted a picture, well, I know Google it up and it’s wrong, you know? And I’m like, that’s the problem. And I talked to the college administrator today that. What are the biggest issues we’re dealing with? As you know, like I get my information comes straight from our health department because they really like globally activity, situation goes math director.

So I’m dealing with numbers that they’re seeing, but my parents are dealing with, with the numbers that the media put out and there’s however you feel about the media. I mean, it’s, it’s all those, but. You know, I argued with a gentlemen, I mean, we’re friends. I mean, I wouldn’t say we’re friends, I’d say we’re acquaintances because he was trying to group together the protesters with the rioters.

No, that’s not. It that’s a lot of those rioters weren’t at the protest they showed up to cause [00:56:00] trouble break things. And because they knew they could do it under an umbrella, so that’s not right. That’s not that’s not what you know, it was meant to be. And so it’s. It’s a very, it’s a time right now where I just encourage my players, my kids, even myself you know, you can’t get caught up on a click bait.

You can’t get caught up listening, to things you don’t believe. You don’t know. it’s real easy to hear something and be like, well that’s, and it’s not that you know, I have guys, we have some pretty we some heavy conversations, they were very, very anti our president right now. And, and that’s fine.

And I can play I can play devil’s advocate and say, well, what about this? Oh and then mainly cause we’re friends, but it’s one of those, like, I’m going to make the most educated decision come November based on what what I believe in and things of that nature. But what I do know exists, I’m [00:57:00] going to treat people regardless of their race, their sex, whatever, how I would want my sons treated. And I think that that’s the big thing is if we, if we ever just got away from political parties and got away from, the narrative of how things are are supposed to be a really focus on what we believe is people and how we’re gonna treat people, regardless of who the president is, regardless of what the media tells me.

I mean, I still, it comes down to change, starts with you and it starts in your community. And that’s where we see major change. And hopefully hopefully it’s getting there. I’ve seen a lot of great things and just in our area that have been very positive and I see it. But then again, if I look around and I try it, I can see negative things too.

And I think that’s one of the things too, is you’ve got to wire [00:58:00] yourself. To search for positive to search for education, to search for answers. So I, I don’t know, it’s a, it was a sad time for sure. but I do believe our country’s going to be a better place. you know, and. This group of kids, like was talking about they’re resilient.

They’re so smart. They’re smart generation. We’ve had these kids, their first toy was an iPad and then they’re gonna, they’re going to do some great things and if we can just keep everybody healthy and get back. Back to school and back to athletics and back to being able to give your neighbor a hug and shake hands and everything else.

I think it’s a great thing.  

Mike Klinzing: [00:58:43] I agree with you from the standpoint of how you treat people and how you want others to be treated. We go back to that golden rule. I think if we could all run our lives by that, which clearly at this point, [00:59:00] we haven’t been able to do very successfully in a lot of cases, but if you can govern your life by that simple rule, you’re going to end up in a lot better place.

And that goes for coaching. That goes for politics. That goes for whatever. And then I guess I’ll wrap it up by saying that I think one of the most encouraging things about this whole situation is that if. Six months ago, you and I would have been having a conversation where we said, Hey, six months from now, we’re going to be on here talking about social justice and talking about equality and talking about making our world a better place on this four quarters.

I think probably both of us who have said, no, we’re not going to be doing that. And the fact that it’s putting us in a position to be able to have a conversation and think about it and. Consider what’s going on in the world and where are places in it and what we can do to try to make it better. To me, we’re not the only two people out there having this conversation.

[01:00:00] There are lots of other people having that conversation. And I know from the coaches that I’ve talked to, and I’m sure you feel the same, and you shared some of that tonight, that there are lots of coaches all throughout the basketball world. And I’m sure other sports that are having conversations with their teams, with their players about these situations.

And because of that, I think that’s where the educational process starts and that’s where we start to make meaningful change. And to me, that’s what it’s all about.

Greg White: [01:00:26] No, yeah. I think you’re right on and it’s going to continue to happen too. That’s that’s the thing is we’ve got to continue to have these conversations and continue to speak out and you know what I mean?

That’s why coaches have always been some of the best leaders that I’ve known and studied. And I think it’s a. It’s another platform.

Narrator:  That’s game, man.

Mike Klinzing: [01:00:54] Greg, can’t thank you enough for jumping out with us again tonight. Like we said off the top, [01:01:00] can’t believe that this is four quarters episode, number six. Can’t believe that you and I have known each other now for almost two years. And the fact that we’ve been able to develop a friendship across country and just that we can come on and openly have a dialogue about some of the things that are both basketball related, pandemic related, social justice related. It’s kind of amazing. when you go back and think about just again, developing a friendship over two years. And to me, that’s really what that’s, what it’s all about is getting to know people and, and having respect for them.

And we appreciate you jumping out with us tonight and to everyone out there. Thanks for listening. And we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.

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