Tim Heuer

Website – 180coaching.org

Email – 180coaching@gmail.com

Twitter – @180Coaching

Tim Heuer is the founder of 180 Coaching where he works with players of all ages to improve their shooting.  Tim has coached at Saddleback High School, Woodbridge High School, Foothill High School, and other youth organizations in the state of California.

In 2014 Tim developed the acronym S.E.D.R.S which stands for Stance, Eyes, Dip, Release, Sweep & Sway. These shooting principles take into account some of the most current basketball shooting concepts and combine them into one concentrated format that Tim uses to help players improve their shot.

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This episode is a great opportunity to learn from Tim Heuer from 180 Coaching in Orange County, California.

What We Discuss with Tim Heuer

  • Bonding with his Dad through basketball
  • Starting out as a volunteer coach at the YMCA
  • Why dribbling should be every player’s foundation at the youth level
  • Keeping a ball in kids’ hands during practice and limiting lines
  • Being adaptable as a coach
  • Praise the effort, not the results
  • The need for coaches to focus on improvement over the course of a season
  • His research and film study of the best shooters in the game
  • His SEDRS Method for teaching shooting
  • Stance, Eyes, Dip, Release, Sweep & Sway

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[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the hoop heads podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here with my co-host Jason Sunkle, and tonight we are pleased to welcome to the podcast from 180 Coaching, Tim Heuer. Tim, welcome to the podcast.

Tim Heuer: [00:00:12] Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Mike Klinzing: [00:00:13] We are very excited to be able to have you on the show and dig into some of the Unique shooting technique that you are teaching. So I want to start out though, by going back in time to when you were a kid and talk a little bit about how you got into the game of basketball when you were younger.

Tim Heuer: [00:00:32] Yeah. A great question.  for the most part, it all came down to my father.  my father,  played basketball on high school.

He had opportunity to play in college. He instead decided to enroll at rice university down in Houston. And he continued to play,  into his adulthood. And he would always take me along to his, his,  men’s leagues games, and I’d watch him play and watch him score and just be on the [00:01:00] sideline. And sometimes I’d have a basketball and sometimes it would roll onto the floor and they’d have to stop the game.

And I, you know, from a very young age, you know, my dad would always take me to the park and he would teach me how to play and teach me how to dribble.  And teach me how to do a layup. And,  you know, I just kind of watched him and,  I never really thought anything of it. I just kind of mimicked and did what he did.

And,  you know, I got into some basketball leagues and,  just just started kind of my love for the game and my journey really all started from my father. He loved basketball and I didn’t even question it. I just kinda did what he did and, and I became pretty good at it. So I was, I just kind of followed in his footsteps.

Mike Klinzing: [00:01:43] What was it? Is it about the game that you love? So once you got that influence from your dad, and clearly you were indoctrinated into the game early by going and following him around and, and watching him play, but once you started playing yourself and developing that love for the [00:02:00] game, what were some of the aspects of the game that you found appealing to yourself when you were younger?

Tim Heuer: [00:02:06] Well, I think there were two aspects. One, obviously was. Just, it was, I mean, the main reason was it was a way for me and my father to relate, to talk, to spend time together,  to shoot around, to strengthen our, our bond and our relationship. And it became a real father son thing.   also, I. I became pretty good at it.

So that was also another thing, just, you know, just getting kind of the admiration and, and,  you know, from parents and from players like, Hey, you’re pretty good at it. It just seemed to be very, very natural to me.  You know, from a very young age, you know, that I wasn’t that I, you know, that was, I was, you know, I was halfway decent for, for young kid.

Mike Klinzing: [00:02:49] Oh, question. I think when you tend to have success, and this goes for anything, not just basketball or sports, but anything that you’re good at, that you’re getting positive reinforcement for, I think that usually leads [00:03:00] to. You want me to do it more? Because you want to continue to seek that praise and continue to seek that admiration like you described.

So if you think back to your high school playing days, what are one or two memories that stand out for you as a high school player?

Tim Heuer: [00:03:15] Yeah, I think,  well I, I had a lot of adversity in high school, especially with my,  my senior year.  I, I basically sat the whole. You know, first quarter, I wouldn’t play the first quarter, and I played strictly the second half, all of the second half.

And,  I had some great games.  I remember against our rival,  you know, which was played at the local junior college to, to see all the stands. I remember I ended up having like,  17 points all in the second half,  of, of that game. And, and I remember specifically with my teammate,   we were down, I think,  we’re down by one.

And  they were pressing us and I looked at my [00:04:00] teammate and he was gonna I was gonna go deep and I looked at them and I started shaking my head like, don’t throw the ball. And I could tell, cause I’d played with them for four years, that he was going to throw me the ball and I’m just shaking my head.

I’m like, don’t do it. Cause they had a safety back. Anyway, he throws me the ball. I tried to tip it up to tip it over the defender, but it went right to the defender. Anyway. In the crowd. I had it on tape. The whole crowd stands up, they’re screaming, they’re going crazy because they have an opportunity to take the lead and the point guard is right behind him.

The Senator intercepted it in the point, guards coming, he’s calling for the ball and I just dart forward cause I’m thinking like the center, he’s just going to hand it off to the point guard and that’s exactly what he did. And I ended up stealing it, doing a reverse layup. We’d go up by three. We ended up winning the game.

 but it was, it, you know, looking back on tape, it was just a really cool moment that I got to share in because,  you know, the crowd’s reaction, it was our, it was a rival game. And, and they got so, so happy and the whole crowd was started [00:05:00] cheering. And then two seconds later, I steal the ball and score way up, and they just, like, it just went silent.

And,  especially, you know, for me, I had a really good game.  I, that always stands out for me.  There. There are a couple of other games and it, most of them are the same things just meet coming in the second half. And just, just shooting the ball, just going crazy and just shooting the ball and scoring.

You know, I was averaging about 16 points a game.  so nice, you know, 24, 16, something like that. I had a lot of, a lot of memorable games like that. I

Mike Klinzing: [00:05:33] love the fact that your memory involves. Silencing a crowd. Cause I think that’s one of my favorite things, both as a player, as a coach, as a fan, that as much fun as it is to be at a home game or to witness a home game where the crowd’s going crazy and it’s so loud.

I always felt like there was as much satisfaction and joy in. Silencing a hostile visiting crowd as there was [00:06:00] in pumping up and getting your own crowd excited. And then the question I wanted to ask you about your memory that you shared is you mentioned a couple of times that you have that memory on tape, or that you had it on tape and you would watch it.

So when you go back and you think about that and you’re processing that in your head to share that story with us tonight, are you seeing more of. Your own point of view through your own eyes, or are you seeing that memory through the tape? Since you’ve probably obviously seen the tape more than you actually saw the actual event when it happened, which you only got to experience one time and now you’ve probably seen the tape multiple times.

So when you think about that memory, are you thinking about your point of view or are you thinking about the memory that you see on the

Tim Heuer: [00:06:41] tape? Mainly from the tape.  it was, it was definitely from the tape and there were, I remember my father had a bunch of tapes on, a number of visiting him on like a year or two ago, and he had all the tapes.

He had no TV, no cable. So I just had the, the old home movies and  I went through them and there were [00:07:00] some games I don’t like. There was this one game my junior year against that same rival, and I ended up scoring like. I don’t know. I scored a lot. It was like 26 29 points, something like that. And I had totally blocked out that game.

Like I didn’t even remember it. And I was sitting there and I’m like, cause I was like, man, I have like 2224 26 like I have a really big game. But the problem is I think we ended up losing by like 12 or 15 points. And so I had totally blocked out that game, even though I played great. I mean, I had close to 30 points.

 I totally forgot about it was not even in my memory, didn’t even register. And,  you know, this other game, my senior year, you know, I score 17, like vivid in my memory, but I think you, you kinda like got me thinking my second to last game was. Was against,  was against Westlake and,  it was a hundred to 95 was the final score.

And,  I remember, I remember it was [00:08:00] kind of the same teammate.  we had,  we had gone down by three with like a minute left. And,  most of the time this teenager would kind of salt and not do anything. But for this one time. I got the ball out of the, out of the net and I made eye contact with him and he just took off and I threw the deep pass and I hit him in stride.

He got fouled. He made the shot, he made the layup.  we were able to go into overtime and we were able to win. But I remember us seeing the game, like that game we saw, all of us saw the game. Through the same pair of eyes and we, you know, I felt really connected to my teammates at the end of my senior year where we all kind of saw the game and not have all, all of us got along.

But at that last, that was like, that could have been our last game as seniors. And our just remembered like the last few minutes how we were all on point in that we were gonna play the best we could possibly play. Cause it might be our last. Yeah.

Mike Klinzing: [00:08:58] That’s something that I think [00:09:00] that we tend to underrate when we look back at our memories.

And I’ve talked to a bunch of different coaches and different people, and obviously people have different types of memories, and some people remember specific plays out on the floor, and other people remember moments in the locker room or on the bus or with their teammates. And I think the memories that you share to kind of a nice mix of that and that you remember.

 clearly a play that you had a huge impact on the outcome of a game, which is fun. And you had the crowd and all that going along with it. And then the fact that you talked about the connection that you were able to make with your teammates. I think those are two things that are very, very important.

And when we think about coaching, whether that’s from a player development standpoint, like we’re probably going to talk about tonight, or whether we’re talking about being a high school or college coach. I think being able to impact your kids and your players where they have memories of what went on on the floor, but even more importantly, they have memories of what went on with their teammates and sort of within the culture

Tim Heuer: [00:09:56] of a team.

Mike Klinzing: [00:09:57] I think that’s really, really important school that you’re able to [00:10:00] share both of those things. I have one question for you though. Did do you, have you taken. Those tapes, and if you converted those into DVD or digital files, so those things don’t end up disappearing from history forever. You got to get those things protected.

Tim Heuer: [00:10:13]  yeah. That’s a good question actually. No, you gotta. You gotta do it. Got another box. Yeah, I do got to do it.

Mike Klinzing: [00:10:21] Yeah. That’s one of the things, it’s funny cause I, I had my dad had tons of video from when I was playing. And at some point, probably one of the nicest things that he ever did for me was to create DVDs of all those V old VHS tapes that I can now go back and look at and play.

And not that I’m sitting around looking at those all the time, but it’s nice to have them in your back pocket where if you ever want to look at them or you never want to show them to your kids, or somebody at some point is interested or asks you a question, you can go back and find it. And so that’s one of the nicest things that.

My dad’s ever done for me. So I think if you get an opportunity to do it, you want to do it sooner rather than later before those things [00:11:00] completely deteriorate.

Tim Heuer: [00:11:00] Yeah. Yeah. You’re absolutely right.

Mike Klinzing: [00:11:03] All right, so moving on from playing, let’s talk a little bit about your story after high school. When did you start thinking about.

Getting involved in coaching and start thinking about shooting and how you wanted to get involved and be able to impact players in a way that you were impacted as a young kid.

Tim Heuer: [00:11:24] Well, it was much later. It wasn’t till our, with like till I was in my thirties,  till I had stopped really playing,  just, you know, shoot around here and there.

 but I wasn’t, the way I got into coaching is, it’s kinda funny because it wasn’t. It wasn’t typical. I wasn’t trying to become a coach. I was watching my brother play and he was eight and he had been playing in this league since he was seven. And,  I was getting really mad and I was getting frustrated and I got so upset that I walked out of the gym.

And,  [00:12:00] at the end of the practice I went to my mother and I said, mom, what is going on? My brother has been in this league for over a year. I don’t think he can even dribble a basketball. Like, what are those doing? Like, and my mom was like, well, Tim, you know, your father taught you. He doesn’t, you know, he doesn’t have you or dad.

 you know, you can work with them while you’re here for a week.  but if you think you can do better than when you go back to California. Why don’t you volunteer and coach. And so I worked with my brother and he never did anything in these games. And I went to him, I said, look man, I can’t do anything.

You’re going to have to work on defense. That’s going to be your specialty. And I had one of his friends come over and I told them how to get into a stance. And I basically told him to get wide. And I told them at your age, just if you get into a stance, kids are going to pick up the ball. Grab it with two hands and rip it out of their hands.

And he went into the next game and the kid that just sat in the corner and never did anything, and he had like 11 [00:13:00] steels and parents were noticing this and they’re like, what has gotten into this kid? And then the best players on the team were like, if this kid can do it, then I can do it. And so they all started copying him.

He ended up guarding the best player on the team, and he really started to contribute and he really started to pick up and really started to, to to, I think kind of loved the game at that point.  because he was getting, you know, positive reinforcement. Anyway, I came back to,  Costa Mesa, Newport beach area, and,  I volunteered at the Y YMCA.

And,  they needed volunteer coaches. And so I volunteered and,  it was probably the best experience. Now looking back on my whole coaching career, that was the purest form of, of basketball that I was able to experience where those first like five years coaching for free at the Y.

Mike Klinzing: [00:13:46] So what do you remember?

What did you love about that? Because obviously you’re doing that when we think about coaches, especially at the youth level, we’re thinking about coaches who have. A kid on the team, and that’s typically what happens. So what was it about [00:14:00] coaching at that level? That excited you, that made you want to come back day after day, year after year?

What satisfaction were you getting?

Tim Heuer: [00:14:08] What

Mike Klinzing: [00:14:08] did you feel like you were contributing during those five years while you were coaching as a youth coach?

Tim Heuer: [00:14:14] Well, I mean, I was an only, well, I grew up as an only child that you’ve, now that I’ve or others and I practice all the time. And,  I just found out I had a lot of.

Well to most people, a lot of useless information about basketball and how to train and get better. Like I don’t use that anymore, but I have it. But I just was, when I was working with my brother and working with some of his friends, I started realizing like, man, I know a lot more about basketball than all these people.

Like this is just really common sense stuff. Like I’m not even T like, you know, this isn’t anything new. So the best part about coaching at the Y was. I always laugh when, cause I hear it all the time. Like coaches are like, okay, you got to have a practice plan, plan out your practices, write everything in super detail.

Make sure you have it. [00:15:00] I had, I’ve still have never written out a practice plan. Every time I write out a practice plan, it goes horribly wrong. And  like at the Y, the best thing that made me a coach in, in, in. A coach was the fact that I didn’t even get to coach five players at once for like two to three years into the, into my coaching career.

Like I’d show up and two or three kids would show up. And I would just coach and I couldn’t do the any team stuff. I had to do individual work and they were S they were six and sevens. Then I moved up to eight nines, then 10 and Eleven’s. Then I started coaching two teams. Then it came into three teams.

Then it came into three teams and private lessons, and it just slowly built.  I see a lot of coaches, they’re given varsity programs or college programs right from their first coaching experience.  I was lucky and privileged enough not to have that.  and it really enabled me to, to really fine tune my philosophy and see what really [00:16:00] worked with players that were unskilled and very, very new and very, very young.

And,  I wouldn’t change it for the world. And I wish that more coaches got to got that experience of coaching one or two players and then moving to three or five and then six or seven, and then finally like finally getting a team, you know, together. It’s a, it’s a unique and I think a, a very worthwhile experience.


Mike Klinzing: [00:16:26] I think that’s an interesting path that you don’t often hear of. I do think that there are a lot of coaches who. Maybe are not at the age that you were when you started coaching. But we have talked to coaches who have started out as college freshmen and they get an opportunity to coach at the local Y or be a volunteer.

And that kind of hooks them on coaching. And one of the things that you always hear is that if you can teach it to a six year old or a seven year old, or an eight year old, or a group of six, seven, eight year olds. Then it should be easy to be able to teach it to someone who’s a little bit older, has a little bit more skill, a [00:17:00] little bit more sophisticated.

And I think there’s definitely something to be said for that. I know I spend a lot of my time as a coach working with elementary school kids because that’s the age group that I teach all day. And then it’s also. The age group that the camps that I’ve been running for 28 years have been primarily focused on elementary school aged kids.

So I think that I can relate to your story in that a lot of times I am working with kids who are not that skill or it’s their first time experience with the game, or. Maybe they’re a pretty good player, but they’re still only eight years old. And so there’s lots of opportunity for you to teach and learn and figure out what works and what doesn’t.

And then I also think there has to be a certain mentality, a certain approach that you have with kids of that age and that skill level. So can you talk a little about what maybe what your approach was in terms of how you interacted and tried to set up your skill development for those younger kids when you first started.

Tim Heuer: [00:17:54] Yeah, I mean, what I tell people, and I’ve shared this before with, with people at camps and clinics, was [00:18:00] like, at that young age, really dribbling is the foundation. And,  I wanted to make sure that anyone that I coached, you know, especially between, you know, 10 and 10 or under, like they, we’re able, they, they look like they picked up a basketball.

I ended up buying my own basketballs,  for the kids, so that, that each kid would have it at least two basketballs.  per, per kid. And,  I remember I would, I, the main thing that I learned too was to be efficient with my time and with, with the, with the gym. So a lot of times I’d get a half court, I’d have three baskets and I, my first thing, what I would always do, what I still do is I set up some kind of a kind of circuit.

Where, you know, maybe they, they, they take one ball or two balls depending on their skill level and maybe dribble through an agility ladder, go through some cones.  but they kind of just go in a circle and they never stop. And they just do [00:19:00] that for like two or three minutes.  typically like to do with two balls, because that way it’s a better efficient use of their time.

And it develops both the left and the right hand. And I remember one time I w I went through this,  this kind of circuit with these eight, nine year olds and I filmed it. It’s somewhere on YouTube. And it’s funny because it’s like. I’m doing it. I’m showing the kids, and every time I show it to somebody, they always look at me like, those kids can’t do that.

That’s crazy. Like, what are you doing? And then,  and then they do it. And,  you know, just staying positive with the kids and just showing them stuff and just allowing them to screw up. And if they screw up, don’t make a really big deal out about it. Just say, Hey man, don’t worry.  just keep going. You know, you don’t have to coach them.

You don’t have to tell them that they screwed up. They know they’re trying not to, but just stay positive and just keep it short and light. But dribbling is the main thing because the kids that can’t dribble in it at a very young age, the other [00:20:00] kids know it and it’s like sharks feeding. And if you can’t dribble.

Then then me as a defender, I want to attack you because I want to try to steal the ball because I have no fear that you’re going to drive around me and score. And if I don’t have any fear, then there was nothing. Why wouldn’t I go and try to steal the ball from you? But once I tried to steal the ball and you dribble around me and get a layup, now I’m going to back off and now I’m going to allow you to pass.

And that’s just a really simple, basic concept. But it’s something that I always make sure that all of my players.  know how to dribble, and we work on dribbling a lot in the beginning stages.

Mike Klinzing: [00:20:38] All right, so there’s three things I want to pull out from what you just said, that I agree with 100%. One is the importance of a kid being able to dribble and handle the ball at a very young age.

If you learn how to dribble the ball and control it at a very young age, then you can get wherever you want to go on the court. So many people, we all know that kids love the shoot the ball. [00:21:00] That’s the first thing that attracts everybody to the game. Unfortunately, in a lot of instances, kids are shooting on baskets that are 10 feet, so the same basket, that six foot eight 260 pound LeBron James is shooting on the.

Three foot nine seven year old is shooting on that same basket with terrible form and having to Chuck the ball up and do all these things just to get the ball up to the basket so it has a chance of going in. So one of the things that I really believe is that at those younger ages, just like you. That the more you can focus on having that ball in the kids’ hands and work on developing their ball handling and their dribbling, the better off they’re going to be agree with you 100%.

Second thing I agree with 100% is how you talked about having a ball or in your case, sometimes two basketballs in your kid’s hands during your practices all the time. I think the more you can have a ball in a kid’s hand, especially at those young ages. The better off you’re going to be. One of the things that I’m a huge believer in [00:22:00] when it comes to working with youth basketball, whether that’s in a team practice setting, one of the reds in the camp, whether it’s in a training session, is.

You don’t want to have kids standing around in lines watching. You want to have a doing because a doing helps them to improve their skill and be doing is a lot more fun than standing in either listening to a coach or watching somebody else do something. So that’s something else that I completely agree with.

And then I think the last part of it that you talked about, which is very important, is. Just the need for that constant activity. And so by moving him through stations where, okay, here’s a group doing this, and then you’ve gotta another thing set up at this basket and other things set up here, and it’s sort of a circuit that they’re moving through that keeps them going all the time, short burst, two, three minutes, and then you move on to doing whatever, a different skill or a different set of circuits or whatever it might be.

So I think those are all great things that you have set up and. As you started thinking about putting together those [00:23:00] skill development, what ended up being skill developments because you were only getting two or three kids out of your entire Y team to show up at any one time and you start developing your coaching philosophy over the courts.

Of course, of that five years, when did you start thinking about, Hey, I, when did you start to develop a formal process for thinking about how you wanted to coach. And maybe started to to think about what was eventually going to become one 80 coaching. Were you thinking about that at this point, at this stage in your career, or were you still just doing it because you just love being in the gym with those kids?

Tim Heuer: [00:23:35] I’m really, I really enjoyed being in the gym with the kids. It was a way for me to give back and be more kind of selfless and just share. A lot of information that just came, you know, natural to me that I didn’t really have to think about. But I also learned a lot because I was always researching and trying to figure out new ways, new techniques.

I would sometimes videotape my practices and then go back and go. [00:24:00]  the whole circuit training idea came because I was at,  I was, were working on the main gym and, or on the main basket and the, there were two baskets to the left and to the right side of me. And,  I was thinking, I was watching myself and I’m very hard on myself and I was like, you know, these kids are doing this drill, but after they do the drill, they could just branch off and then maybe go shoot a layup on the other two baskets to the left and to the right.

Or do some other kind of drill or some kind of other skill development and then come back into the line and just kind of, you know, kind of go in that pattern. And you know, that kind of changed the way I kind of saw the game.  just being more efficient with everything. I always try to use every single basket.

If I’m given six baskets, I try to create drills that are continuous, that use every single basket, and I try to give everyone a ball. My, my, my basketball philosophy though, it changed because I got different teams and every time I thought I figured it out. I would get a [00:25:00] team that, that philosophy didn’t work with them.

Mike Klinzing: [00:25:04] Right. Welcome. Welcome to coaching. Right, Tim.

Tim Heuer: [00:25:06] Yeah, yeah, exactly. And  you know, I just. I just had to, I just had to adapt. I tried to make plans. I mean, even in high school even, you know, fast forward, even to high school, I remember making this plan. It was so perfect. I planned out the perfect practice of course, and I get to the gym and the varsity coaches like, Hey man, we’re in.

And the whole practice was me doing full court press, brake, you know, press, press, brake, a secondary break, all full court, fast break stuff. And I get to the, I get to the gym and he’s like, Oh, we’re, we’re sharing the court. So you just get that half-court and right there I just like crinkled up my whole plan.

I had spent like 30 minutes to an hour on and just throw it in the garbage because I was, I just started laughing. I’m like, yeah, that figures. And every time I try to plan something at the Y or in high school or wherever,  it net, something would always come up and I couldn’t do [00:26:00] it. And so I’d have to think on the, you know, I have to coach on the fly.

And,  you know, just being okay with that. You know, everyone has a plan, right? Or what is that? That same by Mike, that’s the Mike Tyson.

Mike Klinzing: [00:26:12] Everybody has a plan until you get punched in the jaw.

Tim Heuer: [00:26:15] Exactly. So that, that happened to me a lot in my early coaching career,

Mike Klinzing: [00:26:20] especially when you’re coaching youth basketball.

I think that’s a huge issue for youth coaches all across the country, is that when you show up for a practice, you never have any idea how much of a gym. You’re going to have, and I know I’ve been in that situation many times myself, where I’ve put together a plan of what I wanted to do and had some drills thought out that I thought I was going to end up with a full court and ended up that all I had was a half court or vice versa.

I thought I was going to only have a half court and they ended up having a full court. And then I think, as you said, that ability to improvise on your feet is something that. The best coaches, and I’ll take it one step further. The best [00:27:00] coaches are the best teachers also do that as well as you have to be able to adjust to what’s going on in your lesson or what’s going on in your practice and be able to pivot if things aren’t going the way you expect or you don’t have the materials you expected or you don’t have the space that you expected.

And to me, that’s a hallmark of somebody who’s a good coach, who, yes, you have a plan, but then you’re able to adjust it. Depending upon what the circumstances may dictate. And that’s a huge, huge thing I think for youth coaches is to be able to have an idea of, okay, well we might have a full court. It might’ve a half court, maybe we’re only gonna have one basket.

And they were going to have three baskets. They were going to be sharing the court with another team. Sometimes you show up and you have no idea what to expect. And so I think that ability to think on your feet is one that I’m sure has served you well throughout the time when you’ve been coaching.

Tim Heuer: [00:27:49] Yeah.

I think one of the things I, when you were talking, it kind of reminded me of one of my biggest mistakes coaching in, in early in my coaching career. And it’s one that all [00:28:00] coaches, I think at some point, every coach does this. And I remember doing it. I, I kinda thank God it was on the,  it was early in my career.

 but basically in everyone’s gonna kind of nod their head, I hope making things too complicated. So putting it in all offense, that’s too complicated for the talent that you have. And I noticed that,  gold moving when I went into my high school career and stuff like that with the other coaches, sometimes I would, I would sit there and I’d go, man, this, these are players aren’t as talented and are authentic, is more complex.

That’s a dangerous situation to be in because we need them. You need to make. Things. If your players are less talented, that the offense and the defensive schemes need to be easier to make the game easier for them. But you can put your team behind the eight ball by coaching a very strict and disciplined way.

Or if you try to run an offense that has a lot of reads and a lot of counters and a lot of thinking, [00:29:00]  you can handicap your team,  by making the office too complicated or defense. But in my case, it was the authors.

Mike Klinzing: [00:29:09] Yeah, I agree with you there 100%. I agree. I think one of the things there, there’s, there’s two things that come to mind when you said that.

One is, I think especially at the youth level, if you’re going to spend any time putting in something that’s complicated with players who are not that experienced, the basketball players, you’re going to spend a lot, a lot of time working on. Set plays, and I mean

Tim Heuer: [00:29:36] like

Mike Klinzing: [00:29:36] half of your practice is going to be spent just trying to get kids to remember what spots to be in.

And clearly that’s not a good use of your time in a youth practice. You’re much better doing, doing much better off doing what you described, which is put the kids in skill development session where they’re actually becoming more skilled at the game and as they become more skilled at the game, then.

They can be involved in [00:30:00] things that are a little bit more sophisticated, and yet, I’ll take it one step

Tim Heuer: [00:30:03] further.

Mike Klinzing: [00:30:03] We had on a month or two back, we had on Mike Procopio, who was Kobe Bryant’s personal coach for a while where he, Colby would have him scouting opponents and then Mike would send back his scouting report to Coby so that Coby could be better prepared for each one of the games.

And then Mike’s worked for the Mavericks and he’s worked with a bunch of great coaches. But Mike shared on the podcast, one of his taglines is dominates simple. And what he explained to us was that when he’s coaching the MBA, he goes, there’s really only. 25 guys in the whole league that really matter, that get got that get plays called for them that get things run for them that can pretty much do whatever they want.

And this is at the highest level of the game. And the other 350 players in the league are basically roleplayers. And what they have to figure out is what do they do well? What are the one or two or three things that they do well and just dominate those few simple things. And I think a lot of times we try to [00:31:00] overburden players at all levels and teach them a million different things.

Whereas as you said, if you could simplify it and make it easy, then you’re going to end up probably having more success. And I just love that saying that my Caz dominates simple. To me, it’s just, it’s something that, it’s easy to be able to explain to a coach or to a player, Hey. This is easy. It’s simple, but we’ve got to dominate that.

We’ve got to be great at it. And I think that’s kind of the point that you’re getting at.

Tim Heuer: [00:31:26] Yeah, absolutely.  that’s, that’s 100% correct. You got to keep things very, very simple. And,  I know that a lot of times in my coaching career, like I put a big emphasis, especially on younger kids about transition.

And I would always tell him like, Hey. We got a score, we got to go and score as soon as possible. Get the ball. I don’t, you know, it doesn’t matter. You guys are all point guards. So if you get the rebound, just start dribbling. Don’t, don’t wait [00:32:00] to go. And,  I remember I would, I would ha I would say things I remember early on, it would be weird cause I’d be, I’d be at the Y and the kid and get the ball and he’d be okay.

Or maybe it wasn’t that good. And he would go and I would just go attack, attack. Go, go, go, go. And he would go and maybe he would dribble the ball off his leg at half court and he kind of looked a little sad and I’d bring them over and go, Hey, that was great. Okay, but on this next play, let’s see if you can’t get to the three point line.

Right. And I would always just, I would encourage them like, Hey, that’s okay. You dribbled off your leg. That was expected. But now let’s just try to get past half court. Let’s try to get to the three point line. Let’s try to get to the free throw line. Let’s try to get a layup, you know, and just encourage them to just go a little bit further in their progression.

And then also, I remember at the high school level, I would, I would, I remember when my last high school stint, I divided the teams up and I said, okay, team a, you guys did great. You ran the office [00:33:00] precisely. Just how we coached it. And you got most of your, your, your, your points out of the half-court set.

TMB. You guys looked horrible on offense, didn’t really run anything, scored very, very few points and a half court set, but you scored a lot in fast breaks and I would go to teammate and I go, teammate, you did you, you did very well in the half-court set. What did that get you and were like, we lost coach.

And I go, that’s right, because fast break is the name of the game and you’ve got to get up and down, right? Don’t put this on my shoulders because if we got a score in the half-court set, we need a score, 80 90% of our points in transition, and then when we get stopped, then it’s on me and we got to design something.

And so I would always say that, don’t take the game out of my hands. Right? In transition. That’s where you have the most freedom and creativity to be you. So, and you have an advantage. You know, really attack. I want you to really push it in [00:34:00] those, in those circumstances. Yeah.

Mike Klinzing: [00:34:02] I love that about the transition else.

Other thing that I love that you said, which I think is one of the tenants of positive coaching, and that is when a kid makes a mistake, if they’re trying to do something that you want them to do or they’re trying to perform a skill that they’re just learning what they haven’t perfected, you have to recognize and acknowledge their effort.

And not just the results. So when, in the example that you gave, when the kids dribbling the ball before or after you get the, gets the rebound, maybe he’s not the best dribble around the team. Maybe another coach, as soon as he got the rebound, would have been yelling and screaming, Hey, give it to Johnny, give it to Johnny, give it to Johnny.

Instead, you’re encouraging that kid to dribble the ball up the floor and then he doesn’t get the result that he wanted. You didn’t get the result that you wanted, which was him driven the ball before and either scoring or making a pass. Instead, he dribbles it off his foot, but the key here is that he was doing what you asked him to do.

He was trying to stretch beyond what. [00:35:00] The current limits of his skill were, and you as the coach, instead of pointing that out as an error, a mistake and saying, what are you doing instead you said, Hey, that’s a great job. I love that you’re trying to bring the ball up the floor. Fantastic. Next time I want you to try to get it 10 more feet further, or whatever the case might be.

And by acknowledging that effort and by recognizing the kid stepping out of his comfort zone and tried to do something. Beyond what his current limits are. That’s how you encourage that behavior to continue, and I think that that’s something that is critically important at all levels of coaching, but I think it’s especially important with young, impressionable players who are in elementary school.

If you are going to criticize them when they try something new or that when they try something difficult, you’re going to eventually shut them down to the point where they’re not even going to want to try. And so I think that what you’re saying, the philosophy that you’re describing are things that any youth coach out there can learn from in that you want to [00:36:00] praise the effort and not just the result.

So I think that’s a great job that you’re doing there, Tim.

Tim Heuer: [00:36:05] Yeah, and I, I used to, I used to always rotate my point guards, like, you know, especially after out-of-bounds plays are made baskets, I would say, okay.  you know, Sam. You brought it up the last three times, switch it up, have somebody else bring it up and you know, and if they’re not very good, I would, you know, I let him bring it up three or four times.

And if they turned the ball over, I wouldn’t get mad. But then I would switch it to another player. Because if you watch any youth sports, you will notice that there’s usually one player. It’s typically the coach’s son who brings the ball up every possession, and he gets all the reps. and I wanted to make sure that if, if my philosophy.

My philosophy, if you want to get down to like the one word, it’s growth, then you can also call it,  you know, change.  there’s a lot of different words. You can, you can do it, but I want people to be constantly improving. Right. [00:37:00] Or constantly growing. And you got to do that through the reps and getting different players, you know, different reps.

and. Especially at the youth level. I mean, no one remembers what they did in sat when they were seven years old or nine years old or 10 years old. Like, those games don’t count. Like no one cares. Right. Winning’s not the, not the, not the goal. Right. The

Mike Klinzing: [00:37:23] of debt moms, dads sometimes care in the Mo in the moment, for sure.

They care. And that’s something that I think if we could get across, we’ve talked about this. A little bit on the podcast but not tremendously. Cause we haven’t always had this youth basketball discussion that you and I are having tonight. But I think it’s important for parents out there. If you are the parent of a basketball player at any level, it’s important to remember that you’re a hundred percent rights in that no one is going to remember or care about the score.

Of a seven year olds basketball game. It’s just not going to be that important. Trust me. And ultimately [00:38:00] what you’re looking for is a positive experience for your kid, where they’re having fun, they’re developing a love for the game, and they’re learning something in the process of doing that, and they’re all that’s being done with positive coaching, and that’s all the things that you’re describing are all things that if I was a parent.

Those would be the type of coaches and the types of programs that I would be seeking out to have my kid get their basketball experience with 

Tim Heuer: [00:38:29] and look, I mean, I want to win just like everybody else. Absolutely. I don’t, you know, I don’t emphasize it because once you start focusing on the goal, you start missing everything in between.

And you know, the, the reality is, is if you, you know, if your tent, and you know, a lot of times you have to win to kind of.  you know, to some degree, just so that people, even more credible people listen to what you have to say. But even if you lose every game, which I had done,  you know, those teams are typically [00:39:00] developing teams, so it doesn’t matter what you do, you’re probably gonna lose the majority of those games, but you want to make sure that everyone’s getting better.

You know, that’s always the goal. Like your team and your team record will always be better if everybody’s improving, you know.

Mike Klinzing: [00:39:18] Absolutely. I think that sometimes we forget and we think as coaches that it’s our genius that leads to the success of our teams when more often than not, it’s the more skilled team that ends up winning games.

And I think that goes from all levels of basketball. And so I think that one of the number one things that a coach can do is to. Develop their player’s skill, and it’s important no matter what level of basketball you’re coaching that some part of your practices every single day and different coaches are going to have different philosophies.

But my philosophy would definitely be that every single day skill development has to be baked in as part of your practice. [00:40:00] And I think if you’re not including skill development, if all you’re working on is set plays and your strategy. Even at the high school or college level, I think you’re doing your players a disservice and at the youth level, clearly you’re doing your players a disservice if you’re spending more than

Tim Heuer: [00:40:16] five

Mike Klinzing: [00:40:17] minutes of practice just teaching them one basic out of bounds play and maybe how they know how to enter the ball on the wing.

If you’re teaching any more than that, you’re wasting a lot of your time that could be spent developing your kids into better basketball players, which ultimately is going to help them more than whether or not they remember your 42 set plays.

Tim Heuer: [00:40:34] Yes. I, I totally agree.

Mike Klinzing: [00:40:38] All right. Let’s start looking at and talking about your philosophies on shooting.

So share a little bit first your, the background of how you started coming up with your ideas and thoughts about how to teach shooting. And then let’s go into a little bit of your methodology and how you go about teaching that to players today.

Tim Heuer: [00:40:57] Okay. Yeah. My, my, the reason I didn’t even [00:41:00] teach shooting from the first couple of years,  it’s a difficult skill to teach.

 I ended up doing it. I, I, it all came down to a simple question. I always think of Jared diamond, who is this author of guns, germs, and steel. He wrote this,  this award winning book because basically someone asked him, why did he bring so much cargo on this trip? And then that started this journey where he wrote this book called guns, germs, and steel.

That’s what happened with me. Basically, I was teaching.  and I, I was, there was a little bit of frustration cause I, I, at the time I was melding a bunch of different ideas,  this philosophy, that philosophy, my own personal experience. And I was kinda meshing them together and I was training a player and we were in a discussion about, I was teaching him index finger in the middle of the ball.

And his coach was, was suggesting either split finger or middle finger, I can’t [00:42:00] remember exactly. But I ended up telling him like, Hey man, regardless of what I say,  you should go on YouTube and study the best players on the planet and see what they do and do that. And a couple nights later, I said, I should listen to my own advice.

And I did that. And what I found out blew my mind. I was looking at a picture of Ray Island and it was a frame by frame shot of him shooting the ball frame by frame, still pictures. And halfway through his shot I’m looking at him and I seen the back of his hand and I’m like, he’s holding that ball on the side.

And that blew me away. Like, here’s how I’m seeing, you know, cause I’m on the side angle, I’m seeing the back of his hand and all my coaches and everybody that taught me shooting had always taught me. Basically put your hand behind the ball and  you know, middle finger, split finger, middle finger, you know, one of those [00:43:00] aspects.

And I’m watching Ray Allen, who at the time was the best shooter on the planet. And I noticed he didn’t do it. And then I looked at Steph and I noticed he didn’t do it and I was like blown away. And I was like, wow. And then I remember it was three in the morning and I was putting my hand on the side of the ball and I was rotating my Palm and I was thinking like, Oh my gosh, my elbows are staying in.

Everything seems really simple and it seems super easy. I almost went to the court that night just to try it out. And,  I ended up going the next, the next,  next morning. But,  it was something that really blew me away. And from that question, I started looking at more and more tape,  researching more and more about, about shooting.

And I got frustrated because I like this, this aspect or what this guy said. And I liked what this guy said. And I kept telling myself, man, why does it someone just put all this great information together? Cause like I’m like, I’m kind of come mixing and combining. And eventually I just said, you know what?

I’m gonna [00:44:00] do it cause and, and, and at least that’ll help me develop my own philosophy on the game. And so I basically took what I thought were the biggest components. And I think people get lost, especially in the shooting realm on what to focus on and what not to focus on. And I have a specific reason on exactly why I teach a certain concept.

There is a, there is a well thought out answer. Most of it has to do with Adda, ADA, and I’m in shock uniformity. So R

Mike Klinzing: [00:44:36] explain, explain those two concepts to us.

Tim Heuer: [00:44:38] Okay. The Adda. Is based off of the Sloan analytics conference. So every year in Boston there’s a, there’s an analytics conference.  and there was a paper and basically it broke down shooting.

It took over like a million shots. It took like, I don’t know, it was over a million shots from high school, from college and in the pros. [00:45:00] And,  it took all this information and it basically said the only thing that matters when you shoot is add up, which is alignment. D is for shot depth. And a is for arc and it said, and, and, and that’s all that matters in shooting.

Those are the only things that mattered that, that those were the biggest big stone, largest components. And everything that I train is for those concepts. There are those concepts in particular. The other thing is shot uniformity. How do I understand if I sh if what I’m teaching is actually true?  I picked out S I’ll share my concepts later, but I picked out a set of principles, a set of concepts, and I applied them to every type of shot.

Now, I did this not, not to, not to, I did it initially to prove myself wrong.  so I took a concept, Mmm. And I applied it to a, an underhand granny shot to a fadeaway jumper to a free [00:46:00] throw to a three point shot. And then eventually to a sky hook. And I also compared it to how people shoot when they’re in a wheelchair because shooting a shooting, whether you’re shooting a basketball in a wheelchair, if you’re shooting in a sky hook, if you’re shooting a jumper, if you’re shooting a free throw, shooting a shooting, and there has to be some underlining, universally true principles that it doesn’t matter what type of shot you have.

And so. If I teach a concept, it falls in that adequate attic category, and then I apply it to every shot. And if it, if it works in every type of shot, then I tell myself this has to be true. This has to be true. And so that’s what I use.

Mike Klinzing: [00:46:41] So then you’ve come up with the acronym, S. E. V. R.

Tim Heuer: [00:46:44] S. yes, I call it sellers

Mike Klinzing: [00:46:47] setters.

Got it. Okay. So explain to us a. What that means, give us what each of those letters stand for and then kind of go through them one at a time and how they apply to every single type of [00:47:00] shot.

Tim Heuer: [00:47:00] Okay. All right. Great question. Okay, so the center stands for stance, aye dip, release, and in sweep and sway. And the first one is his stance.

 and stance just basically talks about how do I hold the ball. And how do I stand right? Just basic. Just just basically how do I hold the ball? And like I said earlier, people talk about middle finger, split finger or index finger, and I’ve been to a lot of camps and I went to this very, very well known camp.

I don’t want to say which one it was, but everyone knows it. It’s very, very popular. I’ll say it’s a top five camp in the nation. And I remember they were, they were talking about index finger and I was kind of. Being a brat. Cause I, I knew, I knew, I knew the hiccups within that philosophy because I had experienced them.

And here’s one thing. When people are [00:48:00] shooting coaches, tell me index finger, split finger or middle finger. And why I don’t agree and why I always teach hand on the side of the ball. It goes back to two things. It goes back to shot uniformity. And the second thing, it goes to his dominant eye. So. Would you teach a six or seven year old when he shoots a layup to put his middle finger or index finger in the middle of the ball?

No. You would just tell him, hold the ball, you know, take your one two step and then rotate your Palm. You know, you rotate it and under and do an underhand layup or rotate it over and do an overhand layup. You know, if I did a fade away jumper, am I putting my index finger in the middle of the ball. No, you know, I’m holding it from the side.

People are swiping at it.  I need to have good control. I’m probably doing a shimmy. If I’m shooting an underhand free throw, what? I put my index finger in the middle of the ball or my middle finger in the Nepal? No, I’m shooting through both eyes and both my hands are on the [00:49:00] side. Again, they rotate to the top of the ball.

 You know, when I’m doing a hook shot, I would never put any of these shots. I would never put my index finger in the middle of ball. I would just grab the ball from the side and I would just rotate my pole.  and that’s part of the shot. Uniformity. The other part is dominant eye.  I’m from Texas, so I, you know, I shot up pistol when I was young age and that’s.

Pistols, pull darts. These are other targeting sports and these sports utilize your dominant eye. About 15% of the population is cross-eyed dominant. Meaning if I’m right handed, I’m right eye dominant and right-handed. But I’ve had players that are left eye dominant, but they’re right handed. And if you don’t know that going in, your set of principles will not work.

Okay? So if you put index finger. In the middle of the ball and you tried to sh, you know, which is fine, it’s your right eye, dime [00:50:00] dominant. But if you have to shoot through your left eye, now that ball goes a little bit over to the left side of your body, and what you’re going to notice is your elbow is going to flare out and it’s going to be much more difficult, a little bit harder to hold the ball.

 you know, obviously if you have huge hands and it becomes a little bit easier. But it’s much easier to hold the ball and shoot through the middle of your forehead or your dominant eye, even if it’s on the opposite side. If your hand is on the side of the ball,  stance, you don’t want to be square. I mean, you can start square, but you will never ever finish square again.

Shot uniformity. When you shoot a lay up, you know, are you, are you square? No, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, your shoulders are turned. When you shoot a fade away, you’re not square.  when you shoot a hook shot, your shoulders are not square, right? The only time they’re square is actually with an underhand free throw.

And that’s because you’re shooting through both hands equally in both eyes. So you need a line those, your hips and your [00:51:00] shoulders to the basket.  but every other shot you’re not. And here’s another thing, you notice how easy it is. When you’re right-handed, you’re at the top of the key. You drive to the left side.

It’s very easy for you to pull up,  when driving left in and shoot a jumper. Why is that? It’s because your hip and your shoulder are already in line with the basket. Now, if you’re preached square and to jump straight up and straight down, then when you would drive left with, with your right hand and you went to go shoot, wouldn’t you want to turn so that you’re, you’re, we’re square.

But that would, if you saw somebody do that, it would look ridiculous.  most people just drive left and pull up and it’s, it’s effortless because they’re already in line because their feet and their hips are already naturally turned. The last thing is watch wheelchair basketball. If you watch wheelchair basketball, watch when they shoot free throws.

I’ve seen one, so I’m not gonna [00:52:00] lie, there is a black Swan, but I watched a lot of wheelchair basketball and I would say like 98 99% of every person playing wheelchair basketball. When they go to the free throw line, they are not square. They turn their wheelchair. And they do that so they can align up, they’re shooting hip and shoulder to the basket.

When I play darts, I’m not square. When I’m bowling, I not square.  when I’m shooting a bow and arrow, I’m not square.  there are a lot of other sports where I’m very rarely, if I’m, I’m squared, when I throw a football or baseball, I’m not square. So we take this, this concept of, of square, and we apply it to different fields and to different shots.

And when you start, if you believe in being square, right, and you start applying it to these different shots, it just gets really ridiculous very quickly. Now you can start square, but you don’t finish where and. [00:53:00] That’s what kind of makes shooting a little bit difficult because like I had mentioned earlier, you drive left your, your, your right shoulder is already aligned to the basket.

What makes shooting driving to your right difficult is that your shoulder is on the opposite side. It’s away from the basket. So when you go up to shoot, you have to fully rotate anywhere from 110 to 120 30 degrees. And  that’s just, that’s not science or anything. That’s just an estimation on my part.

Mike Klinzing: [00:53:29] So it’s a further, so it’s a further rotation.

Tim Heuer: [00:53:31] It’s a further rotation, which is also that messes up your timing when you shoot. Right? So you have to practice that. You have to practice different shoulder rotations when you shoot. Like you, you got to practice when you’re square and you turn slightly. You also have to practice when you’re already in your turn.

Like, you know, your, your, your feet are just slightly angled. You’ve got to practice like that. And then the last one, the hardest shots are when your shoulder, when your right shoulders shooting shoulder is, [00:54:00] you know, perpendicular to the rim. And you have to turn, you know, over 90 degrees to get it where it needs to be.

 Colby.  when he would drive to the right, a lot of times he would go to the short corner and then he would pull up and then he would rotate to get that shooting shoulder,  aligned to the baseline shot. It’s a very difficult shot. It messes up the timing of the release because you have to turn,  it, it’s not, it’s not impossible.

It’s just more difficult and takes more practice in time. I

Mike Klinzing: [00:54:31] would agree with that 100% I think if you look at players, and I know I can speak from experience

Tim Heuer: [00:54:36] there, that

Mike Klinzing: [00:54:37] I was much more comfortable as a right handed shooter going to my left than I was as a right handed shooter going to my right. And so if I think about what you’re describing there in terms of lining up my shoulder, I do think that there’s something there when we talk about, I think if you go back and you look at the history of teaching shooting, when we talk about.

Being square to the basket. I think there’s that [00:55:00] old school philosophy of wanting to make sure that I’m completely on balance. I’m completely, my shoulders are square to the hoop and I think that that is, you said if you’ve watched some of the best shooters in the world, they, they do end up aligning their shooting, their, the, the, their shooting side of their body, and it’s up being much more aligned with the basket.

As opposed to their both their feet being square. I do think there’s something to be said for that stance. Let’s talk about the eyes.

Tim Heuer: [00:55:31] Okay, so eyes, eyes, eyes. I talked about three concepts with the eyes. The first is eye dominance. Okay. And that almost sometimes I, that’s the first thing I’ll do. Is when I line up a new set of students, I have them test their eye dominance, and I do that multiple times.

So I get an accurate read. And I do that because I had a player, my best player when I coached JV girls basketball, and there was this one time she was shooting and she’s our best player. That’s three point shooter [00:56:00] and she’s making, but I noticed when she jumps, she’s jumping,  to the right in a diagonal way.

And I, I talked to her and I said,  Emma, you need to jump forward. Like, I don’t know, you’re jumping diagonal. It’s weird. Jump forward. And she did, and she missed every shot, every shot. And then I said, Hey, Emma, just, I dunno, coach is an idiot. Just shoot the way you were. And she started making it and I started thinking, and, and then I S I made her do the, the eye dominance test and she was cross-eyed dominant.

She was adjusting. So she shot through her left arm. So when she jumped. Kind of diagonally to the right up into the right. What she was doing was when she would do that, the ball would then somehow line up with her, left her left eye, and that’s why she was making it. But when you, when I corrected her, because I know best because I’m this guru shooting coach in the early stages, I screwed up her shop because I forced her to jump straight, which meant she started shooting through her right eye and [00:57:00] she started clinking them really badly.

And,  so I make all my players take the I dominance because they’re going to have a different set of principles either. And it’s not that different. It’s just you’re gonna either shoot through your left eye or whatever, your dominant eye, your opposite eye, or you’re going to bring it up more to the middle of your forehead.

Mike Klinzing: [00:57:17] Yeah. What’s the eye dominance test, Tim? How do I do that?

Tim Heuer: [00:57:21] Okay, so the, the easiest, there’s a couple of different ways to do it. The way I, that I do it is I, I kind of, it’s on my website to,  one 80 coaching.org.  but basically you kind of make a, a small triangle with your hands. So you make a small triangle, you fixate on something eye level, just a point.

It can be anything. It can be my finger or a spot on the wall. And you just look at that spot on the wall, which is at your eye level. And then you straighten out your arms. You make a small triangle between your, between your index fingers and thumbs, and then you put the whatever the dot on the wall. You try to look through your hands at that dot.

[00:58:00] And then. One of your eyes will take over. It’s typically, most people are right on right-handed, right eye dominant. And you just do that a couple of times and that’ll tell you if you’re right or left eye dominant. If you have any other questions, feel free to email me one 80 coaching@gmail.com or you can go on my website.

You can also just type in I dominance and do some research. There’s quite a few different tests to do it, but that’s the one I use. Cool. And  the next part of eyes is. This is a big one. It’s watch the flight of the ball. So I, and I’m going to tell you why you do that. So watching the flight of the ball helps with your alignment and it also helps with you with your shot, DEP and arc.

 when you watch the flight of the ball, first off, you’re going to shoot it straight because once you get to your lift point, or once you start getting to your face region and the ball starts traveling out. Like there’s nothing you can do, right? You don’t need to [00:59:00] still stare at your target because like a power, it’s all there.

But as you watch the, as you watch yourself shoot the ball, the ball is now going to go straight. Also, it really helps when you watch the ball because it gets you into the correct body position. You want to have a slight lean right, a slight tilt, a slight twist,  where your shoulders are back in your hips and your feet are forward.

And when you’re in that body position. It’s very easy for you to just glance up and watch the flight of the ball and your shoulders are relaxed, and here’s the main thing. Arc is very, very important. The sweet spot with arc is 42 to 48 degrees. Okay? If you stare at the rim and you jumped straight up and down and you don’t look at your arc, okay?

How do you know if you’re shooting the ball to flack or better yet? How do you know if you’re shooting the ball too high? You have no idea what’s going on above your head because you’re staring at the rim and you don’t know if you’re shooting the ball too high, right? [01:00:00] You don’t know what’s going on.

Cause the ball never enters your vision. So you don’t know if you’re shooting it too high, too flat, you don’t even know what your arc is. So if you want to have good arc or medium arc. And why do we want to have me medium arc? Well, the, the research shows that if you shoot between 42 and 48 degrees, that’s the sweet spot.

You’re guaranteed to make a majority of your shots. So if I shoot the ball and I shoot it really high at 55 degrees, it swishes. If I shoot it at 56 degrees, same power, I’m, you know, I’m clinking it off the front of the rim at 58 degrees. I’m Clinton off the back board. Right? If I’m off one or two degrees and I shoot at high, I will switch the ball more, but I will get a splatter effect and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll overall all miss, it’s better to shoot flat than it is to shoot high.

 you’ll make more statistically by shooting it flat.  but your best chance of making a basket is to hit that sweet [01:01:00] spot in the middle with the medium arc. And you need to focus on that. Your training needs to be focusing on that. You need to watch the flight of the ball so you know what your art is or have some type of ideal or concept.

 the last part is where to look on the rim. And there’s a lot of debate about this. And honestly, I just tell the players what the best spot is. And then if they want to use it, great. If they want to look at the front or back, that’s okay too. Like, I’m never going to know, but I tell them that the sweet spot.

He is 11 inches past the front of the room. And again, I got that from no a basketball. They have tons of research and data on it and that’s the sweet spot. And the reason I teach them that is because you know the rim is, is, is  is 18 inches in diameter. Nine inches is the direct center. You want to go two inches past the direct center, and that’s the best scoring spot.

You’ll make the motion [01:02:00] buckets from that. And the reason I teach that is because if I tell you to stare at the back of the rim and you shoot and you’re staring at the back of the rim and you hit the back of the room and it, it bounces out, did you miss? You’re aiming for the back of the room. You hit the back of the room, but now the ball bounced out.

You know, I don’t want a negative consequence for me hitting my target right. It’s like me playing darts and if I hit a bullseye, I don’t get the a hundred points or the 50 points. I get negative 20 like I wouldn’t, you know, it doesn’t make any sense to me. That’s why I want a positive. If I hit my bullseye, I want a bucket.

That’s why I teach that in the numbers and the statistics back that up.

Mike Klinzing: [01:02:43] All right. The dip

Tim Heuer: [01:02:44] dip is a tip is . Dip is, goes back into,  a lot of coaches, they fight me on the dip. They basically say, Hey, I don’t dip because I want to get my shot off. And if I dip the ball down, then I’m going to, [01:03:00] you know, it’s going to get blocked.

I won’t get the shot off. And I tell them the same whether if you dip or don’t dip, it’s exactly the same speed. Okay. So you might as well dip because you get added benefits of dipping. The main benefit you get of dipping is it helps you,  it connects your upper and lower body. So that’s the main reason why you should dip.

You want to harmonize. You want a one motion shot, you want to connect your upper body mechanics with your lower body mechanics. So when I catch the ball at chest level, my knee’s been down. I want the ball to dip to, you know, my waist area. Okay. As the ball goes down, my knees go down. As my knees start to come up, the ball comes up.

And that helps me in timing my release. Okay. And whether I do that, I’m catching an energy wave traveling through my body. If I shoot and I don’t, and I just hold the ball up my chest and I don’t dip. My knees still dip down and as they come up, [01:04:00] I, and I shoot. But I would shoot right when that energy wave starts to come up, I would start, once I start moving the ball up, that’s the same spot if I dipped or didn’t dip because my dip is connected to my knees.

So regardless if I dip or don’t dip, it’s the exact same amount of time. So I did because it helps me,  you know, stay on my shot path.  it connects my upper and lower body. It helps generate power. So it helps me with alignment and it helps me with power. And that’s why

Mike Klinzing: [01:04:34] I like that idea of the energy wave.

I read something, it’s a couple of years ago now, clay Thompson talking about shooting, and one of the things that he said, and I think it was actually . He attributed to his father, Michael Thompson, who at one point was the number one overall draft, pick an NBA and played for the Lakers. But they talked about the fact that they wanted it to feel like they wanted his shot to feel like it was a,  a flow of, they [01:05:00] described it as like a flow of water coming up from the feet all the way up into the release of his shot, which kind of goes to the same thing that you just talked about, which is this.

Energy wave and you want your entire body to be working together. And when I think of that energy wave or that current of water analogy with a shot, I always think of the guys who have like a hitch in their shot or just, it always seems like they’re shooting on the way down, or they’re. A guy who just doesn’t, every piece of his body seems to be going in different directions.

He just doesn’t have that smooth release. Whereas the guys who are the best shooters of all time, every single part of their body seems to be working in unison with . Only one goal in mind, and that’s to get the ball into the basket. I know that’s one of the things that when I’m working with a player on their shot, that you try to get them to understand that every movement within their body should be designed with the idea [01:06:00] that it’s helping you to get the ball into the basket, and if it’s not helping you get the ball into the basket, then you should try to eliminate that motion from your shot.

And that’s what I hear when I hear you saying energy wave. That’s what I think of is my entire body being riding that wave together in order to get the ball into the basket.

Tim Heuer: [01:06:18] Correct. Cause you wanna you want to, it helps you time, the time your release. But also, like I said, it connects your upper and lower body.

Cause other times players with two motion shots, what they do is they do the opposite. So as their knees bend, the ball comes up. And a lot of shooting coaches on naturally teach that because they’ll. They’ll plunk their kids right in front of a basket, three feet away, and then, you know, they’ll go to their lift point and then they’ll bend down and shoot.

So there they get used to having the ball kind of by their face when their knees down. But think about it, if you catch the ball at your chest and then your knees been down, but your arms go up, they’re not, they’re not in unison, they’re not connected [01:07:00] right there. Your arms are going up, your knees are going down.

Right? You want to connect that energy that way just feels better. It’s feels like everything, like you said, is working together as opposed to, you know, patting your head and rubbing your stomach, you know, doing

Mike Klinzing: [01:07:15] two different things. Yeah. Sorry. The release. Talk. Release.

Tim Heuer: [01:07:22] Release. Okay. So one of the controversial things I, I talk about now with release is, I mean.

Well, let me get to the first part with the releases that again, I preach hand on side of the ball and basically you’re shootings a two handed shot, and I know no one, no people, people don’t like to hear that. But shooting takes two hands working together. Your off hand is in your shot. Okay? And that’s not a very popular concept, but it’s 100% true.

In any type of shot, you’re there offhand, doesn’t just remain [01:08:00] still and just stay there and not do anything.  the main reason I have this,  is Steph Curry, Ray Allen, and  Reggie Miller. Those are one, two, three in the NBA. As far as most shots, you know, most three point shots, most three point mates.

Ray Allen. And Reggie Miller both flick or rotate their Palm when they shoot. And Steph Curry does a thumb flick. I think you’re, you’re off hand. It’s, it has minimal,  guidance, but it moves and it, it helps the shot.  and they work together. Okay. Cause when your hand is on the side of the ball, as the ball comes up and your Palm starts to rotate, your left hand must also rotate.

To be kind of where your palms are facing each other. So that’s your Palm on your off hand starts getting more towards the top of a ball, and then as your Palm rotates and goes into your release,  you get a thumb push, you get a thumb flick.  at [01:09:00] the very least, your off hand should not, your finger should not be pointing straight up.

At the very least. They should. They should rotate forward and your fingers should point towards the basket. If there is no flump,  thumb flick. But I liked the dumplings. I was a,

Mike Klinzing: [01:09:15] I was a thumb flick

Tim Heuer: [01:09:16] shooter

Mike Klinzing: [01:09:17] when I played, and I’m not sure that if I go back and think about the amount of time that I spent practicing, I always think it’s interesting because that’s one of the things that I go back and forth on because I myself.

Use the thumb flick. And then I know that there are some other shooters that I’ve seen that are very good shooters that I don’t necessarily, they tend to have more of a flat guide hand. So I think about myself as a shooter in wonder that, you know, Hey, if I had eliminated that. Thumb flick. Could I have been even more consistent than I was?

Could I have been a better shooter than I was? And what I hear you saying is in your mind, the thumb flick is not an issue. So maybe explain why you think it’s a benefit or at least not a negative issue.

[01:10:00] Tim Heuer: [01:10:00] Okay. I will give you the best reason. Okay. So out of the whole league, the NBA, and I’m not even going to include the w NBA, there have been eight NBA players that are one 80 shooters, meaning they shot 50% from.

The,  to two point field goals,  40% from threes and 90% from the free throw line. Okay. There, Larry Bird, Malcolm brow, Bragdon, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Reggie Miller, Steve Nash, Durk and Mark Price. The ninth player is in the w NBA,   Elena, Della, Don, and  those are nine players. Those are the only nine players that I’ve ever done that feat.

Okay. Let’s count how many flips their thumb or rotate their off hand. Larry Bird does. Malcolm Brogdon thumb flicks. Larry Bird rotates his Palm. Steph Curry thumb flick. Reggie Miller rotates his poem on his off hand. Dirk flicks his thumb and [01:11:00] Elena Della Don, she licks her thumb as well. So out of those nine players that have accomplished this, this very rare feat at their profession.

Six use their off hands. The only ones that don’t are Mark Price, Steve Nash and Kevin Durant. But Duran does rotate his offhand forwards so that his fingers are pointing towards the basket, but he doesn’t really influence it. They just, they just go forward. And I agree with that as well, but 66% of the best shooters of all time do that.

And nobody puts up the volume that Steph Curry does. Like he’s in a category of by himself. Cause I know all the shooting coaches, they love to go to clay because he, he really symbolizes the old school way of coaching. But, but clay is not as good as Steph. Okay. Steph shoots more threes and he makes a higher [01:12:00] percentage.

He’s led the league in three point shooting like three or four years in a row. He’s a two time,   MVP and he’s third all time in shooting. He, his, the year he went as a one 80 shooter, he shot 10, 10 to 11 threes again and shop 45%. So no one puts up the volume that he does. And then when you put up that volume, you should be shooting a lower percentage step is number one for his career.

As far as high as shooting percentage, any shoots the most, the only person that comes close. James Harvey. But harden has, I think, had a few years where he averaged more than 10 shots per game, but he shoots like 36% over his career and where step is at 43 in that 43% so there’s something he’s doing right and things that he’s doing in his mechanics that nobody else is doing.

And you have to acknowledge that by when you, when you push with your thumb, you get [01:13:00] extra power, not much. But when you point your fingers towards the rim. The main thing you get as opposed to what Thompson does is when you point your fingers towards the basket, you use the whole length of your hand from the bottom of your Palm to the tip of your middle finger.

That’s a runway that helps you guide the ball straight. Whereas if your fingers are pointing straight up, your runway is cut in half because it’s just the width of your Palm. So there’s, there’s some, some technique to why you want to do that.  Back to your shooting hand, you want to rotate your Palm and you want to do 70% off a maxim

So when you shoot, it’s just 70% and your risk never snap your wrist. It just flops down four fingers. And the reason I do four fingers is because Steph does four fingers. K D does four fingers. Clay does four fingers. Ray Allen does forefingers. Kyle Korver does four fingers. You know, J J Raddick does four things.

Well, JJ kind of snaps. [01:14:00]  you know, Reggie Miller, all the great guys, they all do that for finger release. So that’s why I teach it. That’s what they do. That’s what works for them. Multiple players do it. So I’ll do that.

Mike Klinzing: [01:14:13] So when you say a four figure release, you’re talking about the four fingers being pointed down and the thumb sort of being pointed to the side.

Tim Heuer: [01:14:21] Yeah. Like that. It’s just really floppy. You’re not really, you just, you’re extending the elbow out and the, and the fingers are just naturally bouncing and flopping. Gotcha. But you don’t snap because snapping, you can snap harder or softer on a given day. But when you extend the elbow out in the, in the hand just naturally bounces and just kind of flops, that’s consistency to your shot.

That’s why you don’t want to snap because one day you might be snapping it really hard and getting a lot of rotation, but maybe at the end of the game you’re tired and that snaps not as hard. You know, you want a consistent shot, a repeatable, consistent shot that you can do over and over again. And [01:15:00]

Yeah. And you do that on a hook shot. You don’t, you know what I’m saying? A hook shot. You’re not concerned about the finger. It’s a four finger release down. Same thing with other shots as well.

Mike Klinzing: [01:15:10] I think what you just said there with the consistent, repeatable shot is key. And I think within anybody who’s teaching shooting, I think the important thing that I hear from any shooting coach, regardless of what their philosophy is, is that what you do has to be repeatable and it has to be

Tim Heuer: [01:15:31] comfortable.

Mike Klinzing: [01:15:32] And within any of these particular things, I think there is. Some individual variants within each player. As long as you’re following these same basic concepts that you’re teaching. I love all the different little teaching points that you’re making because as you go through and you talk about these, I think it gets a player or a coach to think about what it is that they’re doing and what they’re teaching.

And I love that you have. A why behind it. It’s not just you [01:16:00] guessing about what works, it’s you having looked at people who are actually shooting the ball and having success, and then try to take the skills that they’ve developed, the technique that they’ve developed, and then pass that on to the players that you’re working with.

So let’s go to the sweep and sway. Talk a little bit about that.

Tim Heuer: [01:16:16] Yeah. The sweeping sway,  which also consists of a turn, right? I sweep in sway, body tilt. You know, turn twist. These are all words that describe the same action. I just used the sweep sway cause it’s very widely known that basically you want to jump forward and your shoulders want to go back and your hips want to go and your feet want to go forward.

You do this for several reasons. You do it mainly. The first thing is, is when your shoulders are back, you have less tension on your shoulders. So when I take a player, I go, especially young players, they jump forward with their shoulders forward in the beginning stages of their [01:17:00] career. And what I say is, I tell my players, Hey, everybody, lean a little bit forward now pick up your shooting arm.

Try to try to pick it up straight. Lean forward at 45 degree angle and try to pick up your arms. And, and now I say, now lean back. Now pick up your arm. You see the range of motion. You see how different that is? I’m all, that’s why we don’t jump forward and have our shoulders forward when we shoot. You want your shoulders back and you also want to turn in the air because that rotation when you turn, gives you power.

Now your release in your sweep and sway with the turn, that helps you shoot the ball. So think about this. My hands on the side of the ball. Okay. And as I’m jumping forward, my body, my shoulder are also starting to turn, and I’m starting to lean back and as my Palm rotates to the basket, my, my shooting, hip and shooting shoulder start [01:18:00] rotating to the basket, it’s going to be very hard for me to miss left and right.

If my Palm, my shoulder and my hip are all turning towards the center of the rim. It’s like me shooting a rifle inside the barrel. It’s, it’s grooved. So when the bullet comes out, it has a rotation so it goes straighter and further, and that’s the same thing. When I’m shooting a basketball, I’m turning my hips, I’m turning my shoulder, I’m turning my Palm.

They’re all rotating to the same target and it’s very, very difficult to miss left and right when all of those things are happening.

Mike Klinzing: [01:18:37] I think that’s one of the concepts that has become at least somewhat more accepted when you watch. Players shoot and you really study them. I think that it’s becoming a much more commonly taught practice that players are not going to, you know, the old adage was you jump up and land in the exact same spot that you took off from.

If I think

Tim Heuer: [01:18:58] about, yeah, your [01:19:00] footprint

Mike Klinzing: [01:19:00] coaches. Yeah. What coaches used to tell me, you know, 35 years ago.  that was probably what you were hearing more than anything when it came to shooting. And now clearly we know that players don’t end up shooting that way. And it goes to all the things, just the progression that you just went through.

Each step leads to the next one in terms of one affects the next, which affects the next, which affects the next. And so if you look at that entire progression, you see that by the time you end up. Releasing your shot, you’re going to end up with that sweep and sway. You’re going to end up with that turn where you’re not going to end up landing with your feet completely pointed directly towards the basket.

And I think that that’s something, again, you think about the old school method of teaching versus. The way that you’re talking about and the way you’re describing it in the way that a lot of coaches are starting to come around to teaching. I think there’s a lot of merit to that. And again, like I said earlier, what you’re basing your

Tim Heuer: [01:19:56] coaching

Mike Klinzing: [01:19:56] techniques with them when it comes to shooting is not just you [01:20:00] guessing out of nowhere, it’s you going and doing the film study and putting in the time.

And I think that’s important for everybody to understand is if you go and you watch. The best shooters in the world. Then you’re going to be able to see some of the things that Tim’s talking about here tonight.  is there anything else you want to talk about in that front? Cause I don’t want to get to a little bit of the, a one two step versus the hop before we wrap up, before we wrap things

Tim Heuer: [01:20:23] up, just one thing, just one, one, two points.

One is that also when you sleep in sway, you have better arc because by having that body position with your shoulders back, it makes it easier for you to look at the ball. And if you jumped straight up and down, you have to jerk your head up to see the fly to the ball and you don’t want to do that. Also, when you shoot from distance, you don’t sweep in sway.

You just turn, but that’s because your lift point is usually below your eye. Because when you shoot five feet behind the three point line in the NBA, you’re going to shoot, you know, below your eye. And at that point you don’t need to sweep and sway because your arc, cause you’re shooting a flatter shot.

But, but, but [01:21:00] since it’s from greater distance, you don’t need to shoot at that high and you need the power. So you just turn, you just turn it w the further you go out, the less you have to sweep and sway to a certain extent. And the more you just turn. So when you see players like staph or Damian Lillard or LeBron or whomever, shoot somewhere between half court and the three point line, you’ll notice that their lift point is lower and that they don’t sleep in sleigh, but they still have great arc because they’re so far away.

Mike Klinzing: [01:21:27] Understood. All right. Let’s talk one, two versus the hop. Just give us a little bit of your philosophy. I know that you believe that it depends on circumstance, so just talk a little bit about the benefits and how you teach those two things and what your philosophy is.

Tim Heuer: [01:21:39] Yeah, I mean, basically it’s, it’s, it’s based on, I, I base it on speed.

That’s my main thing. But it’s not that you can’t hop,  going sprinting.  it’s just something that has to be trained and it’s, it’s more difficult to do.  usually if you’re coming off a [01:22:00] double screen and you’re, you’re sprinting with someone chasing you, it’s going to be easier for you to do a one, two step into that to kind of slow down your momentum and then shoot.

 if you hop you can still do it, but you’re probably going to drift or float.  cause your momentum is going to carry you into that.  both need to be practice. The hop is a better technique because you will get the shot off faster.  so it’s really, how good do you want to be? You know, that’s, I always post a question to my players, how could you want to be?

Look,  you might be able to get away with the one two, but as you go up in levels.  the players are going to get bigger and faster and you might need to get the shot off a half second or a second faster, and you’re going to need to do the hop. So you can practice it now and you know, or don’t practice it and have to practice it later if you go up to that level.

 but it’s good to know both. And usually speed determines it for the most part, but you know, the hop is a more efficient technique.

[01:23:00] Mike Klinzing: [01:22:59] Yeah. I think there’s something to be said there for. Both techniques. I think if you have both, I think if you have both of them in your bag, I think you’re going to be better off because obviously their circumstances, no matter what level of basketball you’re playing at, where.

You may be doing one or the other or one or the other may be more beneficial. I do agree with you 100% that the hop allows you to get your shot off faster. We actually had Dave Lavonne here who,  this is probably I, Dave was on not six, eight months ago. Maybe one of the things that Dave talked about with us that got me to sorta think about this in a different way as I was talking about how.

Especially with young kids. I always taught him the one two step because I said, I felt like kids with the one two step had better balance and they were able to generate more power on their shots, shooting with the one two and Dave said, well,

Tim Heuer: [01:23:48] have you ever

Mike Klinzing: [01:23:49] asked the kids how they feel about it and how it works for them?

And I said, well, no, not really. I kind of guess just went on my own experience. And so that got me really thinking about [01:24:00] the difference between the two and. Why I taught what I taught. And since that conversation, I’ve really started to think about and give kids more of an option of, Hey, which one feels more comfortable to you right now?

Let’s work on that one. And then once you get the one that you feel more comfortable doing down. Then we can start to add the other one to your arsenal. And I think if you have both in your bag of tricks as a shooter, you’re going to be that much better off than the player who focuses solely on one or the other.

Tim Heuer: [01:24:30] Yeah. And most of the best shooters do it. And they. They do it there. There are ways to do it. One of the newer techniques is that when you’re coming off full speed and you’re coming off your both feet or you’re doing the hop, you’ll notice that a lot of players, you see this most in the NBA in college, they spread their legs really wide, almost like,  like a Y.

And they do that because cause they have to rotate typically. And what that when you spread your legs extra wide and when you’re going at that speed, it slows you [01:25:00] down. So it’s almost like an air brake. So when you spread your legs wide, when you shoot, it kind of slows you down in the air. So it’s, you know, less for you to adjust when you shoot.

So that’s kind of a little tip or a tidbit to just pay attention to when you see the best shooters on the planet. Shoot, a lot of times when they hop coming off full speed, they, they, they spread their legs wide in the air to kind of mediate and to kinda to soften.   the spin and, and, and, and kind of air brake system.

I guess that’s the best way I can put it.

Mike Klinzing: [01:25:33] Yeah, it’s a good prescription. And I’ll go back to what I’ve said a couple of times now by taking the time to study the film and really look at what guys are doing, I think it gives you a much better. Base from which to teach, and I’m not sure that every coach out there is taking the time to do the analysis and this film study that you’ve done to be able to put together a solid philosophy of how you’re trying to teach.

I want to start to wrap up [01:26:00] here, Tim, by giving you a chance to share how people can get in touch with you.  if they want to reach out, they want to learn more about what you’re doing. If they’re in your local area, if they want to come out and train with you in any way. So give people a way that they can reach out to you, give us your website, all that stuff, social media, and then if there’s anything that we didn’t hit on and you want to make one little final party shot, go ahead and do that and then I’ll jump back in and wrap up the episode.

Tim Heuer: [01:26:23] Okay? Yeah. People, I’m in orange County, California.  you feel free to go to my website. One 80 coaching.org. There’s my, all my philosophies written out, shot breakdowns.  Shots of of, of under hood, an underhand free throws, free throw attempts. The mental side, I actually have drills that break down each one of these concepts and they’re all short drills or like a minute or shorter, sometimes 20 seconds.

They just show you the drill and they say, Hey, this is to work on your stance. This works on your dip. These drills work on your. Sweep and [01:27:00] sway, and you can find all that information. You can reach me. I’m on the website. My, my email address is one 80 coaching@gmail.com. You can also get me on Instagram at one 80 coaching.

 feel free to contact me.  if you’re in the orange County, California area,  I’d be more than happy to work with you. Feel free to reach out and schedule a lesson.

Mike Klinzing: [01:27:24] Tim, we can’t thank you enough for spend some time with us tonight. It’s been. Very informative. I think coaches that are out there that teach shooting and are looking for innovative ways to be able to help their players improve their shot.

We’re able to get a lot out of the episode and we can’t thank you enough for spending that time with us tonight and to everyone out there. We will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.

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