Bruiser Flint

Website – https://ukathletics.com/sports/mens-basketball

Email – bruflint@gmail.com

Twitter – @BruFlint14

Welcome to episode eight of our Hoop Heads Podcast Series called “Mentality with Dwayne Killings – Season One at UAlbany” The series will document Dwayne’s first year as the Head Men’s Basketball Coach at the University at Albany. 

We plan to record and release 2-4 episodes per month with Dwayne and/or players, coaches, administrators, media members, and others associated with the Great Danes Basketball Program to get an inside look at what being a first year head coach at the Division 1 level is all about.

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On this episode we’re joined by Bruiser Flint, Associate to the Head Coach at the University of Kentucky.  Bruiser and Dwayne first met while Bruiser was coaching at UMass and Dwayne was attending UMass basketball camp as a kid.  Dwayne eventually played for Bruiser at UMass and the two men developed a bond that continues to this day.  In this conversation we dive deep into their relationship and the impact their friendship has had on their coaching careers.

Take some notes and be prepared to learn from UAlbany Head Coach Dwayne Killings and University of Kentucky Assistant Coach Bruiser Flint.

What We Discuss with Bruiser Flint & Dwayne Killings

  • How Dwayne and Bruiser first met at UMass when Dwayne was a kid
  • Cementing their friendship in Philly and starting to hang out together
  • Why Bruiser sees Dwayne as the ultimate connecter and how that has impacted Dwayne’s success
  • How Dwayne learned to connect with people by watching his Dad
  • The first advice that Bruiser ever shared with Dwayne was about being patient in your career
  • What makes Philly such a special basketball town
  • The relationships with kids that you build as a coach
  • Helping young people succeed on and off the court
  • Bruiser’s pride in watching Dwayne’s success
  • How Bruiser gave Dwayne confidence leading into his interview at UAlbany
  • What it means to be a professional and dress the part
  • The influence that John Calipari has had on Bruiser
  • Being transformational, not transactional
  • How Bruiser makes sure his players know that he cares about them off the floor so he can coach them harder on the floor
  • Why Dwayne has visited every player’s home at UAlbany since he took the job
  • Getting players on the same page and having honest conversations
  • Coaching all players hard and knowing what buttons to push for motivation
  • How the relationship with players changes when you go from being an assistant to being a head coach
  • Delegating to assistant coaches early in your career
  • The challenge that minority coaches face and how Bruiser and Dwayne approach those realities
  • Books are judged by their covers when it comes to minority coaches
  • The need for more African-Americans in decision making positions in college athletics
  • Opportunities create more opportunities
  • The McClendon Project which will provide minorities a jump-start to their careers through practical experiences, opportunities to build their network, and instilling the values of John McLendon.
  • The impact of the Supreme Court NIL ruling from both Bruiser and Dwayne’s perspective
  • The opportunities players may have to benefit from their NIL
  • Despite those opportunities, as Bruiser says, “They don’t give out free money!”
  • Why Bruiser got so emotional watching Dwayne’s introductory press conference at UAlbany
  • The matchup next season between UAlbany and Kentcuky

Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!

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DK 8 Raw

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here tonight with my co-host Jason Sunkle, and we are pleased to be joined by the head coach at the University at Albany, Dwayne Killings and the Associate to the Head Coach at the University of Kentucky Bruiser Flint. Bruiser, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.

Dwayne. Welcome back.

Dwayne Killings: [00:00:18] What’s up, man. Good to see you.

Bruiser Flint: [00:00:19] Absolutely appreciate you having me on.

Mike Klinzing: [00:00:21] We are excited to have you on and be able to dive into the relationship that you and Dwayne have built over the many years of your career. Talk a little bit about the profession of college basketball coaching, and just kind of get you guys’ perspective on where we’re headed and what’s going to be happening with Dwayne at U Albany and then Bruiser.

We can get into a what you’ve been able to do at Kentucky and what you guys have to look forward to. So Dwayne, let’s start with you and just give us an idea of how you and Bruiser got together, how you. And just kind of give us the background on your relationship.

Dwayne Killings: [00:00:53] Yeah. You know, I was fortunate to grow up in Amherst, Massachusetts as a young boy.

My dad worked at the university for 40 some odd [00:01:00] years. And you know, when I was growing up probably six, seven years old John Kyle Perry comes rolling into town and really Ignited a fire in the town. I mean, he built the program. There was excitement. He was a unifier. He really marketed the program.

And you know, they had a program called mini minute men where young kids would do drills at, at, at halftime at games. And he would come in after practice and do the whole deal. But I was fortunate to meet Bruiser and he’s an assistant coach. And I think he yelled at me a couple of times, but you know, he was always great to my dad.

My dad worked at the university as a sister control of the university. And you know, there weren’t a lot of black people in the town of amorous. So you kind of connected to each other and in your own way. And my dad was very much a, a marital figure on campus. So people kind of knew my dad and I was young and Bruce would invite us into practice.

I come in there and I turned it to be a ball boy. And you know what started out as. Just the assistant coach and a local kid in town started to [00:02:00] turn into like family when I turned into a walk on. And then he’s the guy I went to for advice as my career grew and decided to become a father and a husband and all those things.

I mean, he was a guy that, that I turned to for every corner, every moment change in my life. And now I look at him as a uncle father figure, advice giver and in

Bruiser Flint: [00:02:21] yours. Oh, wow. Oh, well,

Jason Sunkle: [00:02:23] wow.

Dwayne Killings: [00:02:24] It’s really cool though. Is that. You know, when I was at Temple, he was the head coach at Drexel. Like we started hanging out and we became really friends.

You know, our relationship changed so much over time. Now he hasn’t gotten any older. Right. I’ve got an older guy. He looks insane. As you did back then, back when we were in Amherst, back in the nineties. And I think he had a Grand Am back then, so we got him out of that Grand Am started renting job

Bruiser Flint: [00:02:51] In Lincoln’s

Jason Sunkle: [00:02:54] right there. Grant him. Definitely. I remember the grant and I remember, I remember the Lincoln a little bit [00:03:00] more

Mike Klinzing: [00:03:03] Everybody’s car choice changes as we get a little older. Right. All right. So Bruiser, what do you remember about those days? What do you remember initially back at UMass meet Dwayne for the first time, his father, just talk a little bit about the Genesis of your guys’ relationship.

Bruiser Flint: [00:03:20] You know, his dad was there. He used to come to practice. And I remember Dwayne is a camper he, he said he was like you said, the many, many men. And he was a camper and he used to come by, but his dad was always there. His mom actually his dad and his mom would come over. My wife, a couple of the people on campus.

We used to have little, get togethers and go and have dinner and everything before he even became part of what we were doing. So then he got to the point where he was a high school kid. He was going to college and he became a guy who was a walk on for my team. So so you know, the relationship started  a long way back [00:04:00] before he even even was even thought about being like my partner.

You know, because of his dad and his mom, and we used to hang out and do a lot of things. It’s a few couples in the Amherst area used to go out and do some things and come over to each other’s house and drink and play cards and do all those stuff like that. So then, I mean, boom, he, all of a sudden he becomes an adult and he moves to Philly.

He works for a good friend of mine. You know, he actually I actually also too was a good friend of mine with the Charlotte Hornets. And when he came to Philly, you started being together. We started going, hang out, go dinners, do all those things like that. And next thing you know, this guy you know, he becomes a person who becomes very special to me.

He and his wife who was a UMass grad also to you know, we started being really close and you know, it, it just went from there being. And we didn’t live too far [00:05:00] away from each other. We would go out, we would have dinner, we would do all those things like that. Talk coaching so it became family.

It really became family. Although it started with his mom and dad it became him and his wife. So those types of things that it happened. And and I actually put them down with the guys that were part of my family from Philadelphia. The guys who played for me at Drexel became his people too.

So that’s became that was one of the things that became kind of special and it was good to hang out with him as I saw those guys grow I remember him as like, 8 9, 10 year old. Now all of a sudden becomes a man and you see what they do. You know what I mean?

And be it because one of those things where we start to hang out a little bit, talk with fashion, do all those types of things. And that’s what it went from there.

Mike Klinzing: [00:05:48] Did you know, did you see Dwayne as a coach back in the day when you first met him, did you see him having sort of that mindset as a player where you thought, Hey, maybe at some point, this guy [00:06:00] might end up being a coach or was it not really where you’re not really thinking in that direction back at that time.

Bruiser Flint: [00:06:04] I’ll be honest with you.  No, I didn’t, but I will say one thing about him was everybody loved Dwayne. He was the connector to all the players on the team. Everybody loved them. Everybody was a guy who went around them and they wanted to be around them all the time. So when he decided to get into this profession profession, I know he was going to be a guy.

Got along with everyone cause everybody loved them. So, and he was a guy who would bring people in to the family that might not necessarily be into the family. So you know, we would keep in touch. And when he came to Philly and I put him in down with all the guys, I met all the other people that he had connected with throughout his career.

And we all became one. I mean, that’s the one thing about him, ultimate connector. [00:07:00] I will say that about ultimate connector. And he was a guy who really felt like he could put everybody together. I had my family, he had his family. We gonna put our families together because we all part of family.

That’s the one thing I will say about him that is very special.

Mike Klinzing: [00:07:18] You think that’s Dwayne, something that came naturally to you, is that ability to connect people. Is that something that you consciously had to work at? I know we’ve talked before that you felt like your dad had something similar in him as you were growing up and you watched the relationships that he was able to build with all different kinds of people throughout his career.

So do you feel like that was something. Came to you pretty naturally that, Hey, I’m in this group, but now I’m connecting people and I’m connecting this group to that group. Or is that something that you more consciously had to work on because you potentially saw that, Hey, I can, I can really put people together.

Which one of those better describes kind of how you feel about it growing up?

Dwayne Killings: [00:07:55] Yeah, I just thought, I think that was something I learned from my dad. You know, if, if Bruiser came [00:08:00] to town and needed somewhere to live or. Was trying to figure out something in the town. He took that on as his problem, but that was his way of connecting people.

And I watched it. And then also I watched Bruiser and coach Cal and Bill Bayno and Jeff Arnold, all these guys come through Amherst and they connected people. You know, they, they, it made the community feel smaller. So I watched it and I learned it. And that was like, what I felt like was my advantage in this business.

Like, again, I didn’t have the career of somebody like money Mac I’d play at UMass. But what I did have is I worked hard. I paid attention. I listened and I knew how to connect people. And that’s a skill that you need in our business, whether it’s motivating players, there’s connecting to donors or just trying to get sure your team to really buy into a mindset and into a philosophy.

I think those are all things I learned from like I said, from Bruiser, from Coach Cal, watching those guys that practice and do what they did in the community as a young boy and also watching my dad do those things in his own unique way for many years,

Mike Klinzing: [00:08:59] Do you remember the [00:09:00] first piece of advice you ever got from Bruiser when it came to coaching, like the first conversation where it sort of transitioned to, Hey, this guy can sort of serve as a mentor for me.

Does anything stick out in the early part of your career? Something that he told you early on that really helped?

Dwayne Killings: [00:09:17] Patience. I remember it being an operations guy. Every operations guy thinks he can be an assistant coach. I remember that urban, which is like, kind of like the midway point for, I lived in where he lived and we’d hang out there.

I remember my brother-in-law was there and I was dying to be an assistant coach and he told my brother-in-law and he told me just be patient and what happened. And when it happens, everything moves really fast. You know, you get the job and then you’re trying to figure the job out and I remember that, I remember him telling me that to make sure that the kids knew I was crazier than they were.

But I also remember getting affiliate. He talked about the Philly community. Like once you understand it, like it’s a unique place to be. And, and to be honest with you living in Philly for eight years and made my career, [00:10:00] my college coaching career those connections, those relationships were, were huge.

And a lot of who I was validated by. Bruiser Flint and you know, a really good friend of mine, Ashley Howard. Bruiser was talking about who played for him. And Jeff Arnold, those guys kind of cemented who I was. So it gave me access to the city that a lot of people can’t get without guys like them.

Mike Klinzing: [00:10:20] So Bruiser, tell me a little bit about Philly basketball.

Maybe somebody who’s not as familiar with it. What’s so special about the city of Philadelphia when it comes to basketball. And obviously we all know the big five and the Polestar and there’s, there’s things that a lot of people who are college basketball fans know, but maybe what’s something that we don’t know that makes the Philly basketball community so special that you were able to tap into or be a part of.

Bruiser Flint: [00:10:45] Well, I grew up played college ball. I’d be high school ball, but to connections. So one thing about Philly is a very tight knit community. So. You gotta be a part of it [00:11:00] or they, they put you on the side, you know what I mean? So that was the one thing. So you gotta have a connection. If you don’t have a connection, you’re going to be on the outside, looking in you

Jason Sunkle: [00:11:10] like they booed Santa man, you gotta, you gotta let you

Bruiser Flint: [00:11:12] go.

But I mean, that, that’s the big thing about it. I think if if you do a good job or being a part of the guys who were part of the city who grew up there, who played there, who do all those things, then it becomes a lot easier. If you’re not, it becomes hard. They put you out of it. And I think one of the big things about the Wayne was that once he got to the city, he got to know some of the guys and the young guys of his age that made him part of part of the city itself.

So when he goes to temple and he worked for Fran Dunphy and he meets up with Ash, Ash puts him down with a lot of people that’s going on. That’s involved with the people in the city and they accept him, although he’s an outsider, you know what I mean? So I think that’s one of the big things right there.

[00:12:00] If you’re an outsider, you don’t do the things that you need to do, then make sure that you stay announced silent. But if you’re a guy that comes in, God’s put you down. Hey he he’s good with me. Then you handled it the right way. They’ll make you an insider. I think that’s the biggest thing about Philadelphia.

Although Philly is a big city. It’s a small city. And Nikki, the basketball community definitely is very small. Have you ever been around the Philadelphia guys? And they tease us about last year recruiting when we go recruiting all the Philly guys sit together. And if they, if they, if you’re not part of it, you’re not sitting with us that day as you watch me and we’re around each other.

They’ll, they’ll let you know, you’re not a part of this, but I thought the way he did a great job with being a part of that stuff. And I, if you ask anybody, they would say, Dwayne is a Philly guy, which he’s not he’s from Amherst. But he did a good job at navigating it and and being part of what we were doing as a [00:13:00] family.

Of course, he was part of my family cause he played for me at UMass and I made sure that the guys that played for me in the Philadelphia area except. But if he wasn’t a good guy, they would say brute, no, we’re not dealing with him, but he was and and that’s one of the things I think that that made it pretty special for him.

I gave him opportunity to do the things that APA would do. When did you know you wanted to coach me? Yup. Actually I, I, when I was a, my dad ran a recreational center and I was a freshman in college and he’s a Brian, would they call it Biddy leaks? Six, seven, eight graders. So one day he said to me, I look, man, I need you to take the, help me take the kids to the game.

So if we get to the game, the other team’s coach wasn’t there. So he said to me, you coach. How close she achieved. And I coached the team that after the game, cause my dad was a little crazy, but dad, [00:14:00] this is back in the day, back in the day,

Mike Klinzing: [00:14:03] it was a

Bruiser Flint: [00:14:03] little different, a little different. And you know, those are those days back then.

So my dad says to me coach the other team. So when I coached the other team, they asked me, are you going to come back next week? Right?

Jason Sunkle: [00:14:18] I was like,

Bruiser Flint: [00:14:19] sure.

Jason Sunkle: [00:14:19] Why? Because your dad is crazy

Bruiser Flint: [00:14:23] and that’d be honest, Jess. So I loved it. And I was in college at the time. 8:00 AM, Saturday mornings, if you’re a college guy Friday, Saturday nights, you know what I mean?

You’d get up at eight o’clock in the morning and go coach your big league team. You gotta be dedicated. Cause you know, most of the time it takes a clock in the morning. Anyway. So so I did that. That’s what I know. You know what I got. And then Jim O’Brien, who was a big women’s coach at the time, he was the St. Joe’s coach. He goes to at Ben ECOS, Vanderbilt, Christian, Ohio state. Now he’s a coach at wanna say Mary [00:15:00] state, he said to me, you should get in coach. I was like, ah, I don’t know about that. He said, look, I watched the women’s game. Cause the women used to play at force, the young girl she’s playing for us.

And then I see coach a little bit. He said this would be a good professor for it. And that got me interested in it.

Mike Klinzing: [00:15:17] What’d you like about it right off the gun? I mean, what was it about coaching that team that first time? What was it about coaching that excited you?

Bruiser Flint: [00:15:24] One, I loved the kids. You know what I mean?

If you, if you don’t love the relationship with the kids. You’re in the wrong profession because it can be hard because the kids can be hard, but you have to love the young people. And a coach. Shannon told me this long time ago, he said to me, when we were talking, I said, I’m not going to do this till I’m 70.

And he said one, the young guys that made a lot more money than the old guys made when they first got in. But he said, the kids give you energy and it’s true. They give you energy. They keep you on it. They keep you strong. They keep you [00:16:00] young. And and I think that’s the biggest thing about it. And their relationships.

Seeing a guy like Dwayne makes you feel really proud. You know, me seeing him growing up as a 10, 11, 12 year old guy being a, be a part of, be successful, see him grow up and be able to do the things he’d be able to do for me. It’s very emotional or to the, almost to the point where I almost cry. You know, me seeing him.

I’ve known his wife since she was in college. You know what I mean? So to see them be able to have that journey be able to go on and do good things. I mean, for me, there’s nothing better than that because one thing you, a part of you, you’re a part of, okay, bro, I’m gonna call you when I want to get a job.

I’m gonna call you. When will you think about this? And that’s the biggest thing about coaching that makes you proud, takes you a part of the transition of those guys, but not becoming men, young men, but [00:17:00] becoming men. I think that’s the biggest thing right there. There’s nothing like that. That makes you feel proud.

And I, we I’ve had some guys in my days, they were tough kids. They see them have success with families and do all those things. I I’m an old head in this business now. So now they send me his, his kids. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Things like that. We’ll make

Jason Sunkle: [00:17:25] the first thing. The first kid he

Bruiser Flint: [00:17:27] had, I will his house, his mom, maybe him and his wife.

Maybe take off my shoes.

Jason Sunkle: [00:17:35] You’re coming to the house, take your shoes off. Do all those things to their second kid where it was like, it don’t matter. Just come on in.

Bruiser Flint: [00:17:46] I’m old enough to know, to see my guys be able to have kids that go to college and do well in college, even though they weren’t basketball players. And those are the things that you preach to after [00:18:00] work, you do it throughout them. Well w when you’re coaching the, see I’m going to be able to do that.

That’s unbelievable. You know what I mean? It becomes very emotional and that’s the thing. And Dwayne has been very special in that way. I’m very close to his family, his wife and his kids and all those things like that. So to be able to do that, that makes it very special for me growing up. I’m an old guy, so I, I see that and it makes me feel really good.

Mike Klinzing: [00:18:28] Dwayne heading into the interview process that you Albany, what, what did you reach out to Bruiser for when you guys have a conversation? What did that, what does that conversation look and sound like when you’re talking to him about potentially going to UAlbany interviewing for the job, whether or not I’m going to take the job?

What’s that conversation sound like?

Dwayne Killings: [00:18:51] You know, he talking about the job he he’s like, it’s a no brainer if he can get it. And I think his big question is, can you get it and then preparing for some of the [00:19:00] questions you know, here’s some of the questions they’re going to ask you, but here’s some things to think about.

And I think after talking to him and he makes you really confident about what you’re going to do. And I remember even before going through this process, just one day we were talking to him, he said, guys, make a really big mistake. They go in with a predetermined way. They want to coach their team. We’re really, you got to look at what you have and figure out how you have to.

Right based off of your talent and what you have. And I think his perspective, because he’s, there’s not a lot of people that have the respect and have had the success that Bruiser, Flint has had. So when he talks people listen, and then it’s so funny, like you go into these interviews and you know, you start talking about your journey and then you bring up his name and it’s like is disarms people.

Cause they have a story. Like my AD remembers him like giving it to a referee. But when he was at ODU, Like the thing that he said is he respects them because he’s like, he speaks his mind and he holds his ground and it [00:20:00] says a lot. And I think people immediately, they say like, Hey, if you know this guy and associate yourself with him you, you’re, you’re a high character person.

And you believe in caring for people and doing things a certain way. Same thing. I have to work for Fran Dunphy. I’m lucky to have two of those people instill certain things into my life. But I think the other thing was like, when it was happening, he’s like you got a shot to get this job, you know?

Cause you start talking about who you’re meeting with and who you’re talking to and what’s happening and how fast it happens. And then boom, the next time I talked to him, No, I just watch your press conferences. You almost made me cry. Watch you walk up there and do your thing on the stage. You know, because everybody watches the press conference.

Like I had him watching it JB Bickerstaff is the head coach of the Cavs and a bunch of other people. And everybody’s trying to see, okay, well, what are you going to say? When you get up there is different way. They see you in a different light. When they see you present yourself as a leader of a program, they’re like, yes, my God.

You know what I mean? But he’s a part of that [00:21:00] story and that journey and as articulate my vision and what I’m trying to do, half of that stuff I learned from him when I became my first assistant coaching job. I remember this girl, I was with asthma Bassett in Boston, Massachusetts. I had just gotten the BW job.

We went to them. And I was going to get some clothes, like, what are you doing? I said, I’m getting my Bruiser Flint start-up kit. I got whole home slacks and a polo. Cause that’s, I mean, I looked at Bruiser like that’s success, right? So let’s get the uniform. I can’t buy the the Gucci shoes that he had, but I’m gonna get the Cole Haans, I’m gonna get the knockoff look, but that’s what you do.

And then when you get up on the stage or you have your moments you’re just a product of your experiences. And he’s a big part of mine

Mike Klinzing: [00:21:41] Bruiser. When you think about, and maybe you don’t even have to be specific to Dwayne situation, but when somebody comes to you who you’ve maybe served as a mentor to, and they’re asking you for your advice, how do you approach those conversations, where you want to give [00:22:00] them a sounding board?

You want to give them your opinion. You want to share with them, but yet you don’t want to make. Tell them exactly what they should do. You want them to figure it out? So how do you approach those conversations? When somebody comes to you with a specific question about, Hey, what should I think about this job?

Or how should I prepare for this interview? How do you go into those kinds of conversations? What’s your thought process? As you’re talking to somebody like Dwayne, who you’re trying to help get through, whatever it is, whatever issue that they’re facing, how do you approach those conversations?

Bruiser Flint: [00:22:30] Well, one of the things I always tell them is you gotta be a professional.

And one thing, God, I’m old school dressed. The part you look, the part you talk to part. I mean, that’s that, that’s it. And that’s, that’s part of being a professional. I want those guys, if looking when they, when people look at them and say, that guy is going to be. He talks about being their Pruser fled start-up kit, but you know, that’s, that’s what happened with your old school.

But when I came into the business, [00:23:00] you wore a shirt and tie to work every day. And so one of the things about my guys, they always saw me was how I was dressed apart. That’s one of the things that they would say, and then the way you act, the way you talk loud, one of the things I always talk about the guys was me, when you’re, when you, when you get to this, in this situation, you want to be a guy who they look at him and said, one day, I want to hire that’s that’s one of the things I always talk to my guys about.

So you’re in an arena. They got to see you in the arena that they look at you and say, he can be an asset to me for the people that want to hire him. And I just, I talk about to the, my guys all the time. I’m very proud Kilz and child by sheer Mason, those guys are head coaches. I think worked for me.

They hired guys who were part of our family. And that’s one of the things I preach. I preach fan lift the guys who are part of what we’re doing give them an opportunity to so that’s one of the things I talk [00:24:00] about Tom, but I think the biggest thing is when they look at you, they will look at you as being a professional.

One thing about Kilz, unbelievable reputation in this business. That’s why becomes a head coach. People say to me, man, kills is unbelievable. Connects people, he’s professional, he’s done well. He had unbelievable reputation within the business. That’s how you become a head coach. I hope, and then watching me and being part of what I do, that that was part of what made them become a coach.

So you know, I look at those guys and like I said, I get a little bit more. Because I had no high party I’ve come. I’ve had some conversations with them that might not necessarily be able to say, you’ll do your you’re not going to be a professional when you get older. But but that’s one of the things I look, I hope that they looked at me and said, who’s a role model up in the professional.

And and I took one of the things about Kilz when he came through the business. The one thing [00:25:00] everybody always said to me was, man, this guy, he’s an unbelievable professional. You know what I mean? And he handles himself well, he doesn’t do the appropriate things to do all was things. I hope they learned that from me.

He might not necessarily because his dad was like that. He comes from an unbelievable background and his dad and his mom were great. But I hope I had a little bit what, how he became because that would make me proud, but yeah, and all this stuff, I would say the one thing I always try to make my guys feel as though, like, if you want to be successful in this business, kind of be a pro professional first, how you present yourself as a big, and I think the guys that I talked about Ash and Kills, unbelievable in terms of their presentation.

Mike Klinzing: [00:25:44] who served in that role for you when you were a young coach?

Bruiser Flint: [00:25:48] John Calipari he was definitely without a doubt. He taught me how to be a pro you know, Fang Mitchell gave me opportunity to be a an assistant coach [00:26:00] at copper state.

But when you talk about smorgasbord, you know what I means, handle your money, do what you supposed to do. And it’s. I say that, that, that goes to John Kyla Perry. I think that’s one reason why I became so depressed friends. He took me think, I always tell her by I went from driving them to the meetings and I think that’s one of the things that,

Bruiser Flint: [00:26:20] As time went on, I learned about being a professional and that, I think that’s my big reason why I was a head coach for 20 years.

And that, I I’ll be honest with you also, too, when I did get fired. I think people who hired me said this guy is a great professor. I know when I wanted to get back into coaching. But John Calipari was a big, big, big deal for me. And and, and now my career went in the things that I do later on in my career.

Mike Klinzing: [00:26:47] Dwayne, talk about the influence that Bruiser had on you as a professional, like you just talked about.

Dwayne Killings: [00:26:52] I mean, I can remember being at Temple and in the summertime going over to Drexel and, and the presentation part was always like [00:27:00] who he was like he always one of the best chess coaches in college basketball.

So he set the standard high, but even like, he did a great job of like calling you out. If you didn’t look the part in a very subtle but direct way. But I thought like when I go to Drexel and I try to do it here just stopping and appreciating people, whether it’s the compliance person or the academics person or the soccer coach coming through the halls, because You’re, you’re a certain kind of figurehead being a head coach and people are constantly evaluating and they, they want your time.

And you have to shift really fast. You know, I could be in his office and he’s trying to figure out something we’re recruiting or his team. And he walks down the hallway and we’re about to go get a sandwich. And he might be upset about something, but when the soccer coach comes, you got to change.

And he knew how to do that. And that’s, that’s an important skill. You know, I think when I, when I look at being a leader of a program and I talk about this a lot and it’s something that he [00:28:00] talked about a lot when I was playing on his team. And when I was hanging around with teams at Drexel I’m a coach, you hard, but I’m also gonna love you.

You know, really hard and we’re going to have a really good relationship and we’re going to hang out and he was big on having team meals or getting the staff together or taking all the guys on Philly together. And when you do those things, now, if I’m messing up as an assistant coach at temple or Ashley, Howard’s having some struggles when he was at Villanova, he can have a really hard conversation because we have a real relationship.

And for our program here, relationships are everything. I learned that from him. And I watched him drive people to success and that’s hard to do in this business because kids don’t like that. But if they believe that you have a vested interest and you really love and care for them, they’ll let you do anything because they know it’s out of love.

And he always did that. And Whether it was, I remember Moni mag scored as 2000 points. He cried because he was proud of him. And I remember when he lost his opportunity to lead the program at [00:29:00] UMass he wasn’t really upset and crying because of a situation. He was mad cause he was going to be disconnected from his team from his sons.

And that’s, that’s a real thing. That’s a real emotion. That’s real. And I, I don’t know if there’s that many authentic people in this business because he’s right. I mean, I think all of us in that circle value people and when you value people, it’s, it’s just a different deal. It’s not transactional. And I think if it’s not transactional, you have a chance to do some transformational things.

Mike Klinzing: [00:29:30] How do you make sure Bruiser. The kids that you coach know that that’s the way that you feel about them, both on and off the floor that allows you to coach them hard and maximize what they can be both as basketball players and as people what’s the key to your success in that area. What do you attribute that to?

Bruiser Flint: [00:29:51] Well, you got to spend time with them without them knowing that it’s not about basketball. So I’ve always been a guy who Graceville over the [00:30:00] house, go to eat with them, BS with them a little bit. It’s not all about, well, you’re not playing well, or, you know what I mean? Or you need to work on your junk.

You know, you talk about music, you talk, you talk about all those types of things like that. And I too, you didn’t bust it you a little bit, because that was one of the things about my players. They would get on me about something. You know what I mean? Like, yo bro man, you ain’t got to go shoo and

Mike Klinzing: [00:30:30] she better be

Bruiser Flint: [00:30:31] strong,

Jason Sunkle: [00:30:33] better be strong.

Bruiser Flint: [00:30:34] But you know, you gotta let them know. I love you away from basketball. And it’s more than that. You know, I grew up I worked at copper state, I worked at UMass. I worked at Drexel. Everybody. Wasn’t going to be a pro. So the thing you had to let them know us let’s have success beyond basketball because at the year, four years, your basketball could be done.

[00:31:00] So I wanted them to feel comfortable. I always used to tell my guys don’t be a jerk. Because when you take that Jersey off, somebody else’s putting it on be making sure you’re, you’re a part of the arena that people look at you and say, you can be an asset to them. When, when you’re all, when it’s all said and done, you’re just not a basketball player.

I try to teach those types of lessons. But I wanted those guys cause I was a hard coach. You know what I mean? I cussed out holler and I called you names. But I think once those guys realized that you really care for them beyond basketball, Then you could coach him at heart and you would help them way beyond basketball is not just about being a basketball player.

So I, I think that’s been a big part of when I was a head coach, my career. I think that’s one reason why as a family, we were good as a family. We guys have that that kills play with Richard. The family were on text threads together. We [00:32:00] laugh and joke. My guys are drugs. Were they on the same way? My guys at Drexel are good with guys at UMass that I coach.

So I think that’s one of the things that I tried to express and to let them know where all the failures, because we’re part of this basketball. And let them know that.

Mike Klinzing: [00:32:18] Dwayne, how do you make sure that happens with the kids that you coach?

Dwayne Killings: [00:32:22] The journey starts for us next week? You know, we made a big investment for our program.

You know, we went and visited every kid in our program, in their homes because we wanted to preach family. We wanted to preach relationships and, and build them and get inside their own spaces, get inside their homes and understand what those look like tomorrow. We’re going to do a a zoom call and you know, my wife’s going to come on.

It it’s important for me that, that our players. And their parents know my wife. She, she presents a huge role in this process. And if me as a head coach, if things are disconnected at home, then I’m not going to be connected in the office as a head coach and a leader of a program. So [00:33:00] I want them to know that when they come in the building and they see her, I want them to feel like they know her and they can welcome each other.

And they have some level of relationship, but you know, we’re going to do a lot this next six weeks. You know, we have a leadership academy, we’re going to do things on campus where we’re going to get vulnerable and have real conversations, because if we’re going to grow in that manner, the way he’s talking about, we got to have hard conversations to get to know who we are and be able to be vulnerable and really grow.

And again, going back to it, I remember being a walk-on and I’m like, First four or five team meetings that we ever had. We got in a circle and the things that people opened up to about their lives was incredible. I’d never seen anything like that in my life. And I was 18 years old and hearing, and that’s what really drew me to coaching, like hearing all of these different people’s worlds and perspectives and experiences were coming into one room and you were becoming a second family to each other and trying to work hard to achieve one goal.

And [00:34:00] he drove that and you know, some really unique things happen in that experience.

Mike Klinzing: [00:34:06] What give us an example of bruise or something like that. Like, I guess, I don’t know if team building activities is the right way to say it, but just how do you get your guys to open up to not only to you, but to one another, because I think that’s important when you talk about there’s a coach player relationship, but then you also have that player to player relationship that becomes really important where when those guys are out on the floor, if they know each other at a deeper level, and if they’re trusting each other and they’re playing for each other, you’re going to end up probably having a more connected team and a more successful team.

So what are some things that you do to build player, to player relationships? What have you done over the course of your career in that area?

Bruiser Flint: [00:34:44] One I’m not, I’m not afraid to bring a guy in my office to say I stop. So I think that’s the one thing. It is different for kids nowadays did. It was, but in the past.

And I, I wasn’t a never [00:35:00] afraid to, if it was wasn’t as personal. To sit and talk about with the other guys. What I talked with him about. I think that made it very open. So my, I always had an open door policy come in and talk to me, not a big deal. If it’s that personal will be, can’t talk to anybody else about it.

Okay, fine. But if it’s something that me and you discuss and I think will help the group, we’ll discuss it. You know what I mean? So it was not embarrassing. And now will ask the kid, I’m going to talk to the other guys about this. Now they could ask you say, I don’t want you to do that. Okay. Just between me and you.

I think that’s the thing that made it where you trust, where they trust. Where the kids today, they get really bored barest that they used to do in the past. So that was one of my things that I thought over my years that I got comfortable with, but I always did it. So I would always sit down.

[00:36:00] I want everybody to be on the same page that makes you have success. If you’re not on the same page as players, and as a coaching staff, it can be hard. But I always want everybody to be on the same page. I understand that we all have the same goals that we may have some different issues, but our goals have to be the same.

So that’s one of the things I, I sort of stress in my teams. I got helped a lot with Joe Carr, who was a sports car. Who will talk to me or talk to me how to deal with it. I brought him around my team. I did those things, but I thought that one of the things he helped me with was how to deal with each individual player and how to push each individual button, because everybody’s not the same, but we all have to sign.

We have to still be about part of the same goals and, and what we have to do as a team to be successful. You know? So I think that’s one of the things that I always felt as though it was one of my strengths as a coach. We were all together. [00:37:00] Now, everybody know where you’re going to do. Everybody know where a little bit different.

Everybody know each guy has different goals, but in the end we had to come together.

Mike Klinzing: [00:37:10] Was it hard to when you’re coaching, is it difficult sometimes to treat the players differently? So you’re hitting the right buttons with each different player. Cause obviously there some guys that can respond to a little bit harsher, harsher treatment, harsher language, there’s those guys that need to kick in the butt versus the guys who need you to put their, put your arm around them and they react differently.

So how did you handle just dealing with the different psychology of each particular player to make sure that each guy was getting what they needed. And yet that there’s one kid was like, man, coach is always screaming at me because that seems to work for him. And then there’s another kid. What, what, why is he always putting his arm around this kid?

And I’m getting yelled at over here. How do you handle those kinds of issues or how did you think about

Bruiser Flint: [00:37:55] those. One of the everybody know

Jason Sunkle: [00:37:57] about the play for me, everybody got [00:38:00] screamed at,

there you go. Was never an issue like everybody from the first guy to the last guy. No. Oh, he going to scream at me at some point. So,

Bruiser Flint: [00:38:11] I think, and I’ll be honest with you that helps, you know what I mean? Like everybody knew he’s going to, he’s going to react a certain way to each and every one of us, he’s going to be harder as an each and every one of us.

So then they didn’t look at the next guy and said he didn’t do that to you. So I think that’s one of the big things. Even my walk opponents, they would be like, yo, you got on us just as much when the other guys on the team, that means that you’re not treating anybody differently, but you did treat people different.

You know what I mean? So but everybody know a certain thing B gets a certain reaction and everybody knew that. And I think that was one of the things that made it easy for me. Cause I know I was a hard coach. I mean, that wasn’t [00:39:00] easy. I mean, I got after you and everybody had to look around and be able to say, okay, he didn’t treat me.

He didn’t treat me no differently than the other guy. So I, I knew that was, that was part of but I mean it’s hard. I mean, especially now. So I think it’s a lot different this way. Your community communicating skills have to be top notch because the kids, they take it a little differently than it did in the past.

In the past I’m, I’m, I’m a mom, I’m a guy who been in this business 35 years. People said how this, it changed. It changed. And it changed the communication with the kids. If you’re not a guy who really communicate with your kids, they’re going to interpret it a little bit differently than they going to get a, I just want to be a little bit more sensitive than it was in the past.

But I think if guys would look around and say, he didn’t treat me differently than they treat anybody else. I think that then it’s okay with that.

Mike Klinzing: [00:39:55] Dwayne, how do you look at that? The transition from [00:40:00] being an assistant coach and the type of relationships that you have with players versus now as a head coach, and you think about as an assistant, you’re making suggestions as the head coach, you’re making decisions about who plays, who doesn’t play.

And obviously you haven’t experienced that yet, and you don’t have it this coming season, but as you start to just think about where you are now, what’s going to be different about how you build that relationship with the players as the decision maker versus. The assistant coach.

Dwayne Killings: [00:40:34] Yeah, I think you gotta be really intentional.

I mean, my, my time is taken differently. Like when, when I was working for friends it was while he was off doing fundraising, I could focus on. You know, and I could bring a kid in my office and talk to them. My time is done different. And I think the advantage of having the business, probably my ability to build relationships.

I think now I have to really planet [00:41:00] and be really intentional on how those things happen and it’s different. Like, I, I felt that right away, like I practice within and if I was at Marquette and Justin Lewis was done, he’d come over and we’d hang out and talk. Now it’s like, guys are a little bit like, I don’t know if I want to go over and he’s that coach, it’s a different thing.

And that’s hard it’s cause you sometimes you’re left out of a joke sometimes it’s like, there’s another thing going on that you’re not a part of it. And that’s weird because I remember when I got the job, coach will, Jassy said to me it’s great, it’s lonely. And I get it. I got it really quickly, you know?

Cause it’s just different. You walk in the room, everybody stops talking like what advisor by center. No, what are we talking about? But I think for me, I’m just trying to plan like, Hey, let’s I want to invest the time and getting to know the guys. And I’m a, I’m a laid back person off the court. And one of the things coach Dunphy told me is you have no idea who you’re going to be on the court.

And that probably I I’m a product of my experiences. You know, coach  was really intense. Bruiser. Flint was really [00:42:00] intense. Friend Alfie was really intense. So I ended up being really intense. I can blame them for, for, for my practice approach, but it’s awesome. But it, it, that is something I got to manage because one of the things I don’t have is I don’t have the time that I could invest in relationships as an assistant coach.

That’s probably the biggest challenge, but you know, times of commodity that none of us have enough of, I just got to find a way that to find it and make it make it useful in a relationship category.

Mike Klinzing: [00:42:24] How have you approached that same issue Bruiser as a head coach and then as assistant coach, do you approach the relationship piece of it the same differently?

What’s it like building relationships with players as the head coach versus an assistant coach?

Bruiser Flint: [00:42:38] I mean, it definitely changes, you know what I mean? So you, you, you, you’re not one of the things that I told him was you, your, you can’t do everything. That’s one of the things that people think, well, I’m going to be this recruited.

You gotta be able to delegate a little bit, you know what I mean? You gotta be able to rely on your assistant coaches. You become the, you become the [00:43:00] principal when you get called to the principal’s office. Most people think someone’s right. Before you call the assistant coach, yo come over to my office.

What’s up, man. You know what I mean? Like that’s old, you know what I mean? So that’s one of the transitions yeah. That you learn and becoming a head coach. The other thing I told her, I talked to him a lot about was you can’t do everything. You’re going to be pulled in a lot of ways away from your basketball court that you never got pulled as an assistant coach.

So you have to be able to juggle those balls and be able to handle those types of situations you know, from fundraising to just showing up and speaking to alumni group those things become part of your repertoire that they be honest with. You didn’t have as an assistant coach and you’re doing it a lot because they need you to be a part of the athletic department that you’ve never been a part of the athletic department.

I think that’s one of [00:44:00] the things I talked to him about. And so you have to rely on your assistant coaches and have trust in your assistants to do a lot of things. What I was, it was, I called take food off your plate. You don’t have to take food off your plate, man. You’re going to be too for the, and I think that that’s one of the things I, I sorta talked to him about a little bit, but your relationship with the players becomes a lot different because you’re the hammer, you know what I mean?

So I, and they look at you that way. Don’t think that you’re gonna, it’s nothing wrong with being a hammer because that’s, that’s what it’s all about. That’s why you become a head coach. And you’re not going to always be their friend. You got to tell them the truth. You gotta be honest with.

If you’re not, you’re not going to have any success. So, but there’s nothing wrong with being a hammer and that’s part of your job. That’s part of what you do. And you gotta be able to deal with it that way

Mike Klinzing: [00:44:57] Bruiser how long did it take you to get comfortable [00:45:00] delegating to your assistants and to other people who are a part of the program?

Was that something that you were able to do right away when you get your first head coaching job or did that take you a couple of seasons to really feel like, Hey, I can let this piece of it go, and it’s gonna allow us to have more success. Cause I think most of us who are, who are driven and are successful, we do that because we believe in ourselves, we have a strong belief that I can do this really, really well.

And yet to your point, you have to let some of that go because you just don’t have the time. So when did, how long did it take you to feel comfortable, delegating to your assistant?

Bruiser Flint: [00:45:36] I will say this. The thing that was when I got to UMass job, I recruited a lot of players. So my relationship with them was different.

Now. All of a sudden I become the head coach and they still look at it, like, go dude, recruited me. You know what I mean? You really gotta talk to me everyday. Like, I’m not talking to you like that [00:46:00] different. Now when I moved to Drexel and I hadn’t recruited any of the players, it was totally different. So I think when you, in a situation where you take over somebody and you’ve been there, your relationship with the eyes is totally different.

If you go somewhere new, then you know what, you have different relationships with the guys and looking at you at the head coach from the beginning. So your relationship with the players is a little bit different in that way. Yeah, it takes you a couple of years because you have to build also the assistant coaches trust that, okay, I’m going to let this guy be able to do what I need to do to help me.

And I think that takes a season or two to really be able to do it. You would always want a guy who was able to take care of things around campus, forget about the players itself. Will he be able to help be out of the campus where I’m not always dealing with the campus, people that they know, you know what, I just call this assistant I know he’ll be able to do and he’ll get it to brew.

If it’s to that point, [00:47:00] you know, he’ll get it to brew. It we’ll be able to work on it. I think that’s one of the things that, that you learn over time and you hope you have an assistant that’s good at that, or else you’re going to deal with it yourself. But I think it takes, I take definitely and a season or two brilliant.

And the people around them to really trust that guy that you put in that area to really be able to help you.

Mike Klinzing: [00:47:22] Yeah, absolutely. What did you learn as an assistant coach? I’m sorry, what did you learned as a head coach? That’s made you a better assistant coach?

Bruiser Flint: [00:47:34] To be honest with you, I think patience, you know what I mean? And I think that the communication part of it in terms of sitting down with the guys and really individually saying, and look, man, this is you need to do I think that’s one of the things you don’t always have to be their friend.

I think sometimes with being an assistant goes, you always feel as though you gotta be the player’s friend, [00:48:00] but you become a head coach. You your last, you don’t have to be their friend. And I think you can be more real with them. I think when I came back to me an assistant coach when I kept it real with them, you know what I mean?

We were, we weren’t, we weren’t selling no fantasies, you know what I mean? And they were like, okay, bro, I get it. You real with me? And I get that. I think that made me a little bit better as an assistant coach me, myself, I had learned how to do all the shit. Like, no, you had to do the computer stuff and all that stuff like that.

We have somebody else doing it for you. You know what I mean? Bru you got to clip a film, clip ups, film.

I mean, those types of things the biggest thing was just really keep it real with them. I mean, not just being one of those guys as sort of like sales. You know what I mean? So I think that’s one of the things that being a head coach, being an assistant goes that big and really helps

[00:49:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:49:00] Dwayne. One of the things that we’ve talked about a bunch of times already is just the responsibility that you feel as a young African American coach, getting your first opportunity to be a head coach. So maybe we jump into a little bit of the conversation that you guys have had in that area, talking about making sure that you do all the professional things that bruise or you were talking about earlier.

And that Dwayne you talked about are so important to you. Just maybe talk a little bit about each of you, kind of what your conversations have been like over the years when it comes to the racial piece of being a head coach, being an assistant coach, being a college basketball coach. What are some of the things that you guys have talked about over the years through your course of your conversations?

Dwayne Killings: [00:49:44] Yeah, we’re evaluated differently. I think Ashley Howard’s success opened the door for my opportunity and my opportunity opens the door for the next guy’s opportunity. And that’s something we have to be cognizant of. I think given what happened last year, I think we all kind of [00:50:00] collaborated more.

I mean, everybody’s doing zooms. Are we having these conversations that they help you grow? But they’re therapeutic. I mean, it’s, we’re scrutinized differently. We’re looked at differently. We have different challenges in our business. I think that’s something that we’re all cognizant of, but I think also we also have now positioned ourselves to address stellar wary challenge for more diversity on campus.

And in our profession, because we don’t necessarily want it to be, Hey, there needs to be one minority higher and every staff, well, why can’t there be two or three? What if that’s the best person for the job? I think that’s what everybody wants. I think now for me in this moment in my life and a bunch of guys that look like me, we’ve been given more opportunities.

You know, Kyle Neptune’s a really good friend of mine at Fordham. He’s got his job now. We all have to do a great job now for the next wave of guys, because we’re going to be evaluated on that. But I think our window is shorter. And I think those are the things that Bruiser as identified. And we’ve talked about over the years, like people are gonna look at you differently.

You know, they’re going to evaluate your sideline antics. Sometimes we [00:51:00] are looked at as You know, we’re too emotional where somebody else might be looked at as passionate, but then that’s something we got to deal with. I mean, that’s just the reality of the world we live in. But I think at the end of the day, we gotta be organized.

We gotta run good teams and gotta have discipline and gotta to have the right identity for our players. Going back to what he said, professionalism is everything being a good teammate on the campus and in the community. That’s important because you’re evaluated on all of these things, but I think we’re looked at a little bit differently.

But obviously. For me I don’t blend into the crowd in the capital region. I stand out, which is great. It’s a great opportunity, but that means you gotta be really cognizant of what you’re doing, where you are and who’s around you and what you’re saying. There’s a different pressure and it happens the minute I walk out the door of my house every single day, which is great.

Again, it’s not, I don’t look at it as pressure. I don’t look at these things as challenges, look at them as opportunities, because if I take advantage of them as opportunities, and it’s going to open the door for my program for myself, for our campus, for our community, then also for the next, [00:52:00] you know minority African-American, whatever the person.

You know, a person of color to get an opportunity to lead a program. Great. Or if it just means that, Hey, there’s a guy that at one time, was that a program like tempo or Boston university, he gets his next opportunity to be a high major assistant coach because he kind of looks like the profile that I had.

Somebody might say that guy was successful. So maybe the guy that looks just like him and that’s the same profile is him. Maybe it’s him with tips from my staff, which is great. You know, that’s what we do. We do. And I pushed my guys hard. You know this is a situation where like Dave said it, like you give us a lot and I push them to grow because if they grow, I grow and I get better and our team gets better.

Mike Klinzing: [00:52:39] Bruiser, are you been at this thing a long time? What are some of the things that you thought about that you’ve approached that you’ve shared with some of these guys that are part of your family when it comes to being an African-American coach? What are some of the responsibilities that you felt? How have you approached that aspect of coaching?

[00:53:00] Bruiser Flint: [00:53:00] Well, one of the things I always tell my guys is. Your book is judged by its cover. Let’s be real. I mean, like if people say, oh, don’t judge a book by its cover. Well, we are judged by her cover that. And that’s, that’s real, that’s a real point of it. So if you gotta be ready for your opportunity, people are look at you and say, man, he’s asset to us.

We were, we’re not necessarily get opportunities for people to get to know us. I hate to say that as a, as a minority, it goes back, I’ve been doing this for a long time. I’ve seen it. So your book, your cover better be good. They better look at your cover and say, I just got, has changed. Let me, let me see what I can do with this guy.

So over the years have been, I think a lot of things have changed over the years. I would hope there’ll be get rope. Cause that’s another thing we don’t necessarily always get a lot of them. We don’t have [00:54:00] success right away. We’re going so I hope over the next few years, that changes I think opportunities, especially over the last few years, I think our opportunity is to become greater.

Now give us a little rope, give us a little chance to maybe have not have success to have success because that not always having to her. Now, I look at my, even my whole opportunity. I when I was there for 15 years at a good time, I had to lose a season. I was gone. You know what I mean? So, I mean, it is a reality but we don’t think that our book is not judged by its cover, that we’re fooling ourselves.

And we have to be able to be able to look at people, have to be able to look at us and say, okay, there’s an opportunity for him. And now, now with us getting more opportunities, we get a little bit more rope to build because we don’t always get an opportunity to. But you know, this was a good year for us is for the year for minority coaches.

A lot of guys got [00:55:00] opportunities and how to take advantage of it because in the end they will say, you know what? I want to get a guy like him. And that makes more opportunities for us. And that’s the big, tough part of this business. But like I said, I thought this year was a really good year for us in terms of opportunity.

And now everybody takes advantage of it and the people give us a little bit of opportunity to have it.

Mike Klinzing: [00:55:23] What do you think is the biggest obstacle to more African-American coaches getting an opportunity like Dwayne got at the university at Albany.

Bruiser Flint: [00:55:37] Yeah. And I never wanna be like, you know what I mean?

You hire people like yourself, right? I mean, it, I mean, there’s nothing wrong with that. That, that, that’s my thing area. People say, well we get opportunity, but you’re not, and you’re not. I was at drugstores for 15 years, really the only black coach in the whole athletic department, [00:56:00] you know what I mean?

There was no associate AD or AD or anything like even the other coaches were all white. So so I think you hire people like yourself. And I think that’s one of the big things about giving people opportunity. You got to have some people that say to themselves, like I’ve been able to work with a guy like that.

I think that’s, that’s big. You know what I mean? I don’t think people understand that John Calipari came up with the thing this year with the McLendon and helping out, getting people hired in the athletic departments. But typically in that product minorities, we had a lot of conversations about that.

You know, we had a lot of conversations about why don’t blacks get higher. You know what blacks don’t get hired. There’s nobody in the room. That’s like that in the athletic departments, almost all white. So you know what? You hire people like yourselves, and I’ll be honest with you, most black people or hire black people right.

[00:57:00] Themselves. So, I mean, there’s, there’s nothing wrong with that. I mean, he said you’re going to hire people like you. So the majority of it is white. You’re going to hire majority white people. I mean, they’ll so that’s the big thing. I think we got to get more people involved with college athletics in the decision-making process.

When we do that. We’ll have more opportunities in that way. Not just basketball, all sports. I mean, football, I mean, all sports would be that. So I think that’s the big thing right there. And I’ve linked to McLennan project and what they’ve done with that will, it might not happen right away, but down the road, I think it’d be more advantageous for most opportunities.

But right now it just us, I mean, it’s, there’s not a lot of us that’s involved with administration in terms of the decision-making decision-making process. We’re just not involved with it. I mean in the test, that’s what happens, but where we get more [00:58:00] and more people that’s involved with decision making process and we’ll have more opportunity.

Mike Klinzing: [00:58:05] Yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent. I think one of the things that I can’t remember where I read this or saw this, but I thought it was one of the most intelligent sort of takes on this whole situation is when you think about sports and again, we can take the race piece of it out of the race piece of it out of it for, for just a second.

But. You have people who think there’s a path like I want to be a player and I’m going to make my living in basketball as a pro player. And whether I’m going to be good enough to make the NBA, which obviously 99% of basketball players and never get the opportunity to do, or maybe I do get to play professionally in Europe or somewhere, but there’s so many other different ways that you can be involved in athletics and be involved in sports.

And you think about Bruiser, what you’re talking about, getting more people involved in the athletic department, or now you think about somebody who could be an expert in analytics and the number of people who’ve been hired and professional front offices that are [00:59:00] math majors that maybe don’t even have that sports background.

And those are people that end up making decisions. And I think if we can. A greater diversity of, again, thinking about racial diversity, thinking about gender diversity and the opportunity that women coaches may have to coach men, which obviously it’s been vice versa. We got a lot of women, a lot of men coaching women, but we don’t have a lot of women coaching men.

And to your point, Bruiser, I think people hire what they’re comfortable with. People hire people that have been around them. They say, Hey, look, I played sports. My coach was a white man. That’s who I see in that particular role. And I think it’s a really great point that you have to have people in the room that are gonna make decisions that have a mindset.

There’s more to it than just this one, stereotypical. This is what I see when I picture a coach and you got to have people in there who can see the whole picture and that’s gonna open up opportunities for everybody. Dwayne, what are your thoughts on that in terms of getting more people, more decision makers in the room?

[01:00:00] How, how do we do that? You have any thoughts on how we get more people involved in that? Is it education? What do we do in order to make that happen?

Dwayne Killings: [01:00:08] I think it’s important that Sharita Freeman, for instance, who’s the ABA at Lafayette. I think there needs to be an education about what that job looks like.

I think it’s easy to look at what a basketball coach does. Not many people know what an athletic director does, right? They, in the sport of basketball, they see him sit at the score as they will. They’re controlling budgets, their marketing, their fundraising, they’re representing the athletic program for the university, but I think people only understand it for right, the big sports men’s women’s basketball and football, or what about how that impacts field hockey.

And I think if we were working really smart and working at a higher level, we educate our student athletes about what an athletic director and deputy athletic director does. So now that inspires them to do the job because the storyline for many ads are that [01:01:00] they, it all started with them as an athlete, some sports, some discipline going back to Sri to Freeman she’s an Ivy league educated woman.

She’s a close friend. We worked at temple. She’s not an 80 at Lafayette. So we need to celebrate her more, as many spaces as we can to inspire somebody else to take that job. There’s a lot of athletes that finished playing don’t know what they want to do. They get to the coaching, why can’t they get into administration?

And to Bruiser’s point, we got to get people in the room and to the table, but we got to push guys. There needs to be an opportunity there a game kids go to be a grad assistant to get a degree and get entry-level opportunity. Why are we not doing those same things? And I think the people, again, that looked like Bruiser myself, they have to open up those doors and spend some time in some sweat equity and move some money around to create more opportunities.

And it might not be in minority students. Sometimes it might just be a regular student athlete or another student that wants that, that job. I think again, over time, it’s going to open up more opportunities for more minorities to be in leadership capacities. And I [01:02:00] think that’s reflective everywhere you go.

I think every business you go into, there’s a lot of talented people in the world that nobody knows about because they couldn’t get an opportunity. I mean, there’s really good basketball coaches. They’re just high school basketball players. That could be great college basketball coaches if given the opportunity.

I mean, look at Greg Popovich. If he doesn’t get certain opportunities, he’s not where he is right now. He could have been in Sonoma and coaching, you know which is fine. Like he’s still successful in that capacity, but everybody needs a break in some way, shape or form. We just need to get people to understand how good of a life and an opportunity that can be just, you may not be, it’s not as sexy walking out of the locker room on game day, but that guy impacts a lot of people and he can change a lot of people’s lives and do some really cool things.

Mike Klinzing: [01:02:44] That lack of awareness of different paths. You know, you’re talking about, Hey, coaching is what we see on TV during March madness. I want to be, I want to be that I don’t necessarily see that athletic director position there isn’t that glamor there isn’t being the [01:03:00] behind the scenes analytics person being somebody who’s in college administration.

It’s not something that people are seeing every day, but yet if we can make. Our student athletes, our regular students, aware that, look, you may love sports. You might love the game of basketball. Well, guess what? There’s more than one way to be involved in the game for your entire life than just being a player, a coach.

There’s so many other ways that you can impact and use sports, use the game of basketball to further yourself, and then eventually further the athletes and the people that you come in contact with it. To me, it always comes back to that education piece and making sure that people are aware of what paths are out there for them to be able to follow.

So they can have the kind of impact that you guys are talking about. To me, it just seems like that’s really where we have to put the emphasis that I think Bruiser what you were talking about with, with McLendon thing. I think that’s something that that’s the direction that that’s headed, correct?

Bruiser Flint: [01:03:53] Yes. Yes. Without, without a doubt McLendon, it’s funny because Margaret Jarman, who was [01:04:00] the athletic director at the. And I’ve read a story. He talked about how he wanted to be in a college athletics and it wasn’t even the athletic people who put him down on McLendon. It was his advisor, his academic advisor at the school that said, know, you need to look into this program.

And this program got into a higher with you. It became the the ADP at BC. Then he went to UCLA. But again it’s all about the opportunity and not only that to somebody directing you or put you on a right path to that opportunity. And I think it more people in talk and talking about this and I’ve had a lot now I know a lot of people that’s in college athletics and I would say to them, why don’t you have more black people in your athletic department?

One of the things they always used to say to me was we don’t get a lot of applicants. Give me like so as much as you would want to say, yeah, why we don’t hire, we only get four position, regular one black. You know what I mean? So, so if you can [01:05:00] get more applicants, then you’ll get more opportunities, but you also have to be able to say, you know what, okay, this is the opportunity for you.

Somebody has to direct them in that way. Like as an assistant coach Kilz, I want to get in college basketball. So he comes and talks to me and says, I want to get in it. Okay. This is your path. Let me talk to some people for you. Let me do that. That’s, that’s what it’s all about. So you know, that, that’s one of the things I think, as it goes on, if the McLendon project is what it’s supposed to be, eventually we’ll start having that.

I think comfortability is very important. You have to be comfortable, but hiring the people that you’ve been around. And again, I go back to a hire somebody like me, but if you’re comfortable with anybody else, I actually say it. If a kid I’ve always said this. If you’re a kid who’s played for white coaches, your whole life, it’s hard for you to play for a black coach.

It’s hard for your family to say, you know what? I’m going to give you. I’m going to give my [01:06:00] kid over to you. But if you are a guy that has actually played for some black coaches, whether it’s AAU of his high school and it’s all for you, easier for you to play for a black coach, if you’re a white kid. So comfortability, I think becomes very important in all of this.

And once you’ve been around more people, you’ll be more comfortable and we’ll get more different diversity within, within the departments that you work in. And I think that’s a big deal.

Mike Klinzing: [01:06:24] Yeah, it makes a ton of sense. Jason, you want to jump in with your current events question?

Jason Sunkle: [01:06:31] So obviously you guys know the whole thing that the Supreme court well today and NCAA made the announcement that athletes are gonna be allowed to use their likeness.

So I, I was just curious how that’s going to impact your programs. Obviously, I think they’re a little bit different with it was there being at Kentucky

Jason Sunkle: [01:06:48] I’m assuming there are some ramifications for you, Dwayne. So I don’t know who wants to answer that first, but I I, I thought it was especially relevant since that came out today.

The NCAA statement that mark Emmert put out. So [01:07:00] I don’t know who, who wants to, they feel this one first, Dwayne?

Dwayne Killings: [01:07:02] I think bruises version is going to be more compelling. But you know, when I was at Marquette last year, I mean, we, we did a deal with influencer. We were preparing for this moment.

I mean, people put a lot of time into it. I think that the, the schools and the sec, the ACC, the big 10 that are associated with big football programs, they have a leg up because they’re going in this thing hard. I mean, this is a huge opportunity. I, I saw a story about Georgia tech they did this unique thing where they went into the kids hometowns and put up billboards cause they were trying to attract people for this moment right now.

So they’re rolling. For us, I think we’re trying to educate. Our student athletes about what the opportunity is. And then I think when they get on campus in six or seven days we need to educate them about, okay, this is where we are. And now here’s the different people that we’ve associated with, to help you right now, it’s [01:08:00] on you.

Like they have to find those, those opportunities on their own. But I think for us, it’s. There’s Bruiser at the top of the mountain, and he’s got a trickle down a little bit and there’s going to be some mistakes by people, right? Like there’s going to be some opportunities that people didn’t see and then it will settle down and there’ll be stuff for our guys.

I think one of the coolest things, if, if, if it was up to me, if I was king of the world, kids should go home and run camps. That’s awesome. And run a basketball camp.

Mike Klinzing: [01:08:30] I don’t, I don’t know anyone who

does that. Like, yeah. I’m not familiar with that at all.

Dwayne Killings: [01:08:36] I think that’s it. I think that’s a great one for, for kids to do.

And I think there’s so much. For our program, I think there’s opportunity. But then I think there’s even more opportunity, especially for some of these kids that come from unique communities where they get really maximized themselves. But we’ll do our part too to build brand awareness. And then I think we’ll learn what this community is now for us, a little different we don’t have pro sports here.

[01:09:00] So I do think small markets, like you look at a place like Boise, Idaho, those kids could kill it. And now I think we have to find our own unique opportunities here in the capital region.

Mike Klinzing: [01:09:10] Yeah. I mean, it just seems like you, Hey, you got a local car dealership or whatever. You got a college basketball player that could go out there and yeah.

Put together a 30 second commercial. I mean, to me that seems like, I mean, it seems like a no-brainer on both on both sides, not a huge commitment from the player and the business. I’m sure when you talk about, again, a local celebrity in a place where that college it’s a college town and those players are are, are, are looked up to, by everybody in the community.

I mean, it’s just, again, there’s probably a ton of things that we can anticipate as you were saying the way and that there’s going to be opportunities that people don’t even see, or aren’t even aware of yet Bruiser from your point of view, obviously Kentucky, a whole, another different level in terms of the awareness, in terms of the player and what their ultimate future may be in the game.

So just talk a little bit about how you [01:10:00] guys are kind of approaching this and maybe what you’ve talked about as a staff, maybe anticipating this coming down the road.

Bruiser Flint: [01:10:05] Well, the opportunities here are big, but they don’t give out free money and it’s a. You want to make money, you gotta hustle at it, but also too, a big part of that for your hustle is in between the lines and your performance, getting the money.

So that’s one of the things we talk about with backpack guys. Like it, as much as you want to say, oh, I’m going to pick this car dealer. If you go and raise two points again, the car deals, I can’t bring any money. And it was about being in-between in between the lines of the basketball court makes a big deal for what you want to do.

Your opportunities can be great here because we’re a state. We got those pro sports. This is your protein. So if you’re a guy that maximizes what you need to do in terms of your basketball plan, then your opportunities are great. [01:11:00] If you don’t get opportunities or not. Like I said any hustle is about how hard you work.

One of the things I think that kids have to realize that we talked about it loud here is everybody’s not going to make the same. You know what I mean? And everybody’s not going to come at you. And if you don’t perform on the field or the basketball court, you’re not going to get that money. So that’s one of the things we’ve talked about here because the opportunities are, are, are great here.

We don’t ask for support. We don’t have a college team. We don’t have this professional team. It’s a situation where a lot of guys really, I mean, you, UK basketball is unbelievable. You know, you could go on up. If you’re a good player, you can go into autograph tour and make tons of money.

You know what I mean? But you gotta be a good player. So it’s not going to be there for everybody. If everybody is. So you, you gotta be able to do [01:12:00] that. It’s going to be interesting because here the opportunities are there, but who takes advantage of it? And who do they like? Who do you like? If you’re a big star man too, you can give you, you can do a lot of things here.

If you’re not, you know what, you’re not going to get that much. And I think that’s one of the misnomers of the whole situation. Everybody thinks I’m a, I’m going to get rich. It’s not, it’s not that easy. And like I said, they don’t give out free money. You know what I mean? You gotta work at it. And everybody has to understand that when they come to what we’re going to do with the NISL, I would say the top three people in your, or your team it’ll make a lot after that.

It’s a little bit different. You know what I mean? You’re you got a major football team, your quarterback, your front and back and wide receiver. You’re all American. She has. Other than that, Hmm. Do you want me to pick them crumbs? So guys have to understand that in, [01:13:00] in those situations here, you’re taught through basketball players, but what’s your, one of the things I’ve learned is what is your what’s your following?

I mean, people you got on on Instagram or Twitter, if you only got 30, 30,000 people, you’re not gonna make a lot of money. You know what I mean? You got a couple of hundred thousand, that’s one of the things I’ve learned because I’m not part of that. I don’t, I don’t do those things. But the people who’ve come and talk to us about this.

You better have a following if you don’t have a following it doesn’t matter. I don’t care. You know, I wish you got to build your following. You have to build your brain. No. One of the things we’ve really talked a lot about here is building your brand. If you build your brand, you’ve got a chance to make some money.

If you don’t build your brand, you ain’t making anything. So it’s, it’s interesting situation. I think the kids think they just want to get it. That’s the thing that I always laugh about. Oh, oh, you just think you’re going to get to get money then when it doesn’t work like that, you know what I mean? So, you know what I mean?

I remember when I first started coaching, I ain’t make no money. Do you want me to [01:14:00] build myself to the point where I got paid? So I think that’s one of the things that’s a little bit of a misnomer that kids really don’t understand. But the opportunity is definitely there. You gotta be a little recreated in a situation like this, you have to have some guidance to which the coaches kinky.

So you might have somebody to need to give you a little bit of guidance. And that’s where you go with your brand is where are you? How many Twitter followers have, how many you know Instagram policy, all those things like that. So it’s, it’s a little bit more in depth than people think. And I think that’s one of the things that the kids today really don’t understand at this point in time.

And not only that to who’s real, who’s not, I can help you. Okay. Okay. Who can really help you? Who really can. So it’s going to be interesting. I mean, it’s going to be interesting to see where it is. Like I said, a place like here, you can do a lot of good things. I mean, they got a lot of money here.

They got a lot of good sponsors, they got a lot of good [01:15:00] things, but who’s willing to help you. Who’s willing to be able to go in four hours with you as a, as a player. And it was interesting, but that even here, we’re guessing a little bit but we’ll see how it goes.

Mike Klinzing: [01:15:13] Yeah, I look at it and I’m not sure.  I see the benefits. It’s like anything it’s like the transfer portal. It’s like all the th th those, those rules, you can, you can see the benefits on both sides of it. And yet you can see that there’s also some downside to it, right? I mean, there’s clearly some things that there’s going to be some opportunities for kids that nobody 10 years ago could have really imagined.

And yet at the same time, it’s going to bring in this whole different dynamic within your team, that you guys, as coaching staff, they’re going to have to deal with and help kids navigate and figure it out. And is this guy jealous of that guy? Because I’m the fifth starter instead of the third start and third starters getting this opportunity, and I’m, I’m as good as him.

How come he’s getting paid for this and I’m not. And it just adds this whole other [01:16:00] thing that. Again, may or may not end up being an issue, but at this point it’s so unknown. It’s so new that who knows where it ends up going. We are coming close to an hour and a half. I want to wrap up by letting you guys maybe share Dwayne one more thing, or just maybe give us anything that we missed in terms of your relationship with Bruiser or something else that you want to share with us in our audience to just get, give people an idea of how important he’s been to you in your career, and then Bruiser, you can kind of throw it back after Dwayne shares, shares his thoughts here.

Dwayne Killings: [01:16:37] Yeah. You know, there’s been moments whether it’s getting a recruit or working at Marquette or whatever he was. You know, cause he’s part of me getting to that moment and and I could hear him kind of being kind of choked up when we talked about when I got the job and after my press conference.

And that’s a it’s a special feeling because to get [01:17:00] to like, I, I get to live my dream, right. This has been a dream of mine and I get to live it and, but I carry him in the gym and I carry him into the office because if I’m not successful, I let him. Right because you know, like to your point, like he’s opened doors for me, he’s helped guide me.

He’s been there for me. Like I lost my job once and, and he kind of coached me through that and that means a lot. And like I said, he goes from like a coach to a friend that’s unique, that’s special. And I know when I have success, he’s going to be as happy as can be when I have failure, he’s going to be like, I got to help him.

I got to help pick them back up. He’s a part of that. Those things are really important to me because I get to carry his legacy. Like that’s, that’s unique. I get to say that again. I wasn’t, when I set out on this journey, I didn’t have the success other people had. So I had to outwork people. I had to build relationships in a different way.

I had to go about it. Some people told me I wouldn’t be able to get here. I’m here. And I’m driving [01:18:00] myself to be successful because people like him betted on me and they put their word on it. That means a lot. And. You know, my dad didn’t have all the answers for this, cause this is not his world. And I turned to Bruiser Flint and probably four other people.

And to figure this out and I’m here and I get to live it. And I say to people all the time when I set out to do it and I said, I want to coach and be a, an assistant coach. He never told me I couldn’t do it because he realized I could. And that means a lot because for somebody like him, you could easily been like, man, I don’t know about this report.

And you know, it. You know, on, on two dates are coming up in the fall. You know, I’m going to coach my first game and he’s coming in the gym with me and as hard as I can to make sure that first day goes right, because there’s going to be a bunch of people that are going to be proud of me and our team and he’ll be running and then we’re going to play them.

And that’s going to be interesting. Okay. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s a whole, that’s a whole nother world, but it meant a lot for me to do this and [01:19:00] be able to, whether he’s an assistant coach to the head coach, it doesn’t matter to me to be able to do that in my first year. That that’s cause you don’t get, you don’t get to do this a lot and you don’t get opportunities like this.

And I get to control where my team goes, we’re going there and we’re going to play that game. I’m going to give them a big hug. It’s going to be special for both of us. And then after that game, we’re going to go on our separate journeys. We’re going to talk a lot and we’re going to cheer each other on. I love him.

I mean, he’s, he’s the closest thing to family outside of the people that have it, the same blood as me and without him, I wouldn’t be where I am.

Mike Klinzing: [01:19:31] Bruiser. What do you think that conversation is going to be like after you guys match up? Let’s forget about the outcome of the game, but just the opportunity to watch Dwayne as a head coach, what do you anticipate that conversation being all about?

What do you think you’d say to him? What do you think he’s going to say to you in that moment after coach and that first game?

Bruiser Flint: [01:19:56] Well, no, we beat him by a lot, but that’s,

[01:20:00] Mike Klinzing: [01:20:00] I think that goes, that goes to, that. It goes without saying Matthew,

Jason Sunkle: [01:20:05] a motivation.

Dwayne Killings: [01:20:06] I need to make sure I give a copy

Mike Klinzing: [01:20:07] of this recording.

There you go. We got it, man. I’m getting it to you. You got it every

Bruiser Flint: [01:20:11] day. I love it. This wall at Kentucky because Kentucky winning $2 game against me at Drexel. So I walked by this one space that got two K on it and it says 88

Jason Sunkle: [01:20:26] or so. So

Bruiser Flint: [01:20:29] I look at it that way, but I will say this though, you know what, when you’re a coach you want to see your guys that have success because it’s all about the relationships and how you think you’re affected those guys in your four years after, or whatever the opportunity today, around the time that they’re around you to see the way and be able to get the head coaching job, whether he plays us in that as maybe unbelievably proud.

And not only that too, I’ve seen his journey, I’ve been a part of it. So that lets [01:21:00] me know that how hard he’s worked. Like I said, the biggest thing about him was his reputation as a, as a coach, as he was going through the business. So I feel really good at it. Watching them just walk on the stage before we sit anywhere.

I almost started crying when I saw him at going up to the stage to get to jab at Albany sit and be able to talk to her because I knew how hard he’s worked, but it looks like being selfish. I had a partner that I think that’s one of the biggest things that I look at it, like I said, the man had a big part of him being a, becoming a head coach.

We had a lot of conversations about getting to this, to this journey, into this part of his career. But you know, I love them. I love all my guys. I feel real good about my guys who are head coaches and a lot of them actually for a guy who, you know what I mean you know, Ash house. Marsha Mason even some division three guys, Mike Connors Brian Gorman, Matt [01:22:00] Collier.

So all those guys that worked for me and become coaches, even a lot of guys who were high school coaches. So I’ve always felt this real selflessly that I had something to do with that. And that’s one of the things that makes it good about coach. That’s why you come back every day that you see those guys have success and you feel good about that success.

I know Dwayne got up and talked about me a little bit at the press conference and that really made it he made a special but you know, it’s, it’s an opportunity for those guys. I think that’s your job as a head coach. I hope when he begins his job, that guys helped look at him that same way.

Actually have a kid who Henry Fairfax, whose independence had met. And he’s getting ready to get a huge job. He calls me every day, talks about it. He may makes you feel good as a coach, that you know, that you have a chance to be a prior to their last and they interest you to be part of their decision-making.

I think that’s one of [01:23:00] the big things that makes us special. And I’m so proud of all my guys, especially him, because we’re a little tighter than most people. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, I have a different relationship with them and even my older guys that are head coaches, you know what I mean?

Our relationship is a lot different and to see him be able to have this success and be able to live his dream I’m always there for him. And that’s what this is all about. This is all about, for me when you played for me when you played for a guy, you hope you get the opportunity to guys, look at you and say, you will be a part of my decision-making and my life’s work forward.

That man that makes it all.

Mike Klinzing: [01:23:37] I love that Bruiser. I think that that’s something that when I think about defining success as a coach or Jason honorable teachers in our real jobs, when you think about defining your success, what you just said about being a part of someone else’s success. That to me is really what it’s all about when you can look at, and you can say what [01:24:00] I did as a coach, what I did as a teacher, when I did as a parent, what I did as a business person, whatever that I was able to have an impact on somebody that helped propel them to success.

And I could feel that I was a part of it and they feel that I was a part of it to me. There’s nothing, there’s nothing better than that. And that’s really, that’s the definition of coaching. I mean, obviously there’s a lot more that goes into it. We talk about the actual basketball and on the floor, but it ultimately comes down to 15 or 20 years down the road.

When you have a guy that has. Success in his own career and his own family and his own life. That’s when you, as you said, you feel the most proud and that’s when you feel those tears. And that’s when you feel that pride, when somebody that you had an impact on gets up and has success, and that’s been a theme that’s kind of run through everything that we’ve done on the podcast.

I know it’s something that Dwayne has repeatedly said every time Dwayne we’ve had. Yeah. There’s been some, there’s been some form of that particular [01:25:00] theme wanted to have an impact on people and you share the people that have had an impact on you and Bruiser obviously is no different in your career and the things.

He’s been able to do for you and for the other guys that are part of his family, the things that you’re going to do for the people that are going to be part of your family as you continue to build your career. So I want to thank both of you for taking the time out of your schedule. Bruiser was a pleasure meeting you.

We really appreciate you coming on and being a part of this series with Dwayne and the way, and obviously. I think Jason and I feel extremely indebted to you to be able to open up kind of your program to us over the course of this year. And it’s going to continue to be a fascinating journey as we watch you start your head coach.

I think Mike, I want to say something though. I think just go

Jason Sunkle: [01:25:46] for it. You get the commitment that

Mike Klinzing: [01:25:48] after they play one

Jason Sunkle: [01:25:49] another. We get them back on the podcast and talk about the experience.

Mike Klinzing: [01:25:53] Oh, that’s

Jason Sunkle: [01:25:54] good. That’s

Dwayne Killings: [01:25:56] good. I’m not ready to commit to that.

[01:26:00] Mike Klinzing: [01:26:00] Well, we might let’s pay. We’re not going to get you on five minutes after the game.

How about that?

Dwayne Killings: [01:26:06] Right after the game.

We’ll get, we’ll get,

Bruiser Flint: [01:26:13] we’ll get, we’ll get, we’ll give

Mike Klinzing: [01:26:14] you some time to breathe. We’ll give you a grace period. That’s a good idea, Jason. I liked, I liked them. See, look at man, there’s the brains of the organization,

Dwayne Killings: [01:26:22] but that when he came to nowhere with that,

Mike Klinzing: [01:26:25] these thinking that you’re thinking outside the box, man, I like it.

Jay. That’s good. That’s good stuff. Well again, thank you guys, both for jumping on tonight. We really appreciate it. And to everyone out there, thanks for listening. And we will catch you on our next episode.

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