LEWIS SHINE – COACH & AUTHOR OF “DEFENSE: KEYS TO BECOMING A TOP DEFENSIVE TEAM” – EPISODE 416

Lewis Shine

Website – https://www.lewisshine.com/

Email – lewisshinejr@gmail.com

Twitter – @LewisShine

Lewis Shine is the author of “Defense: Keys to Becoming a Top Defensive Team”. Lewis most recently coached at Winthrop University as the Associate Head Coach of the Women’s Basketball Team for the 2018-2019 season.  Prior to Winthrop Shine coached at Central State University, a Division II school in the Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (SIAC) where he was a part of two 20-game winning seasons including an 18-5 record as the acting head coach during the 2017-18 season.

Shine has also served as a personal trainer since 2005 training athletes on all levels including professional, collegiate, high school and junior high.

In 2011-2012, Lewis was the PR & Marketing Director for the Lima Explosion, a member of the American Basketball Association. During the 2012-2013 Season, he served as the General Manager of the team as well as the Head Coach.

From 2013-2016, Shine was the Owner & General Manager of his own Minor League Basketball Team (Lima Express), that spent the first two years of its existence playing in the PBL (Premier Basketball League). During the team’s inaugural season, Shine was named Co-Executive of the Year. In the third season of the team’s existence, it moved up to play in the MPBA (Midwest Professional Basketball League).

Shine received his Bachelor’s Degree in Health and Sports Studies in 2002 from Miami University.

In his first year in Oxford, Shine walked on to the Miami Redhawk basketball team and was a member of the 1998 team, under the late great Coach Charlie Coles, that went on be one of the greatest basketball teams in school history. Under the on-court leadership of NBA Lottery Pick Wally Szczerbiak, they went on to win the 1998-1999 MAC (Mid-American Conference) Championship, and reached the NCAA Tournament Sweet 16.

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We’re talking defense so grab your notebook as you listen to this episode with Coach Lewis Shine .

What We Discuss with Lewis Shine

  • The “Why” behind his book
  • Why he loved Michael Cooper of the Lakers growing up
  • His philosophy on full court pressure
  • Why you should emphasize offensive rebounding
  • His favorite press? The 1-2-2
  • Using the 1-2-2 and getting back to a 3-2 half court zone
  • Putting his most athletic player at the point of the 1-2-2 and the 3-2
  • Forcing the offense to turn the back, setting up steals
  • Taking away the long pass over the top of the press
  • Showing his player film of great players locking in on defense to instill a defensive mentality
  • Teaching players to get in the passing lanes
  • How to build conditioning work into your drills
  • Drills with winners and losers
  • Leading by example as a coach
  • Why players should learn to recover while they’re moving
  • Putting players in positions in practice where they have to dig deep so they can do the same during games
  • Why the first thing he looks for on film when preparing for an opponent is who leads that team in turnovers
  • “If you do what you do and you do that well, it doesn’t matter what the other team does.”
  • Holding individual or position group film sessions during the season
  • “When that balls in flight, you have to be moving.”
  • Tips for defending the three point line
  • How he uses tape on the floor to teach defensive concepts
  • The “Meet and Greet” area for post players
  • Why he believes so strongly in mentoring other coaches

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THANKS, LEWIS SHINE

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TRANSCRIPT FOR LEWIS SHINE – COACH & AUTHOR OF “DEFENSE, KEYS TO BECOMING A TOP DEFENSIVE TEAM” – EPISODE 416

[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing without my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by coach Lewis Shine, the author of Keys to Becoming a Top Defensive Team. And we’re going to dive a little bit into Lewis’s book, get the why behind the reason he wrote the book and what he hopes to accomplish and what he can help you to accomplish as a coach. So Lewis, let’s start out with, why write this book? What inspired you to do it? What value did you think you could bring to other coaches through coming up with this book?

Lewis Shine: [00:00:35] Well, first off, I just want to thank you for having me on again I had a great time being on the last episode that I did with you guys back last year.

And so just an honor to be on man and You know, thanks for letting me talk about my book, man. It’s Defense: Keys to Becoming a Top Defensive Team and defense has always been a passion for me. You know, even when I played college, play pro [00:01:00] and I wasn’t. Always the, I like to say I was one of the best offensive players, but the truth is I had a lot of dogs on my team,  like high major D one players, Cal LSU, Colorado, Colorado state, like, so there was some guys that.

It was like, okay, for you to get your minutes and to be a part of this team in a major way, I had to shift to something that I knew I could control every possession you know, going down on the defensive end and that’s defense I didn’t have to have the ball to be a great defensive player.

And so a lot of it stemmed from then. And then when I had an opportunity to start coaching in college I used a lot of the principles that I learned that I taught in the pros that I did as a player in the pros and I put those things to use, and I had an opportunity as a division two coach.

The first year I was a division two coach, I was an Assistant coach. And then my head coach took a leave of absence and I had an opportunity to become [00:02:00] the acting head coach. And so I further put some of my principles in and we have some great results that year. We’re top 10 in the nation in several categories.

And in a few of those were defensive categories and you know, we did a lot of what we did on purpose. It didn’t happen by accident, we purposed to do it and things happen because we put things into practice to make it happen. And so with this season being you know, just very strange for a lot of coaches with everything that’s going on and me going through several interviews in the off season and not being able to get back into coaching for this particular season.

I wanted to stay relevant in the game and I wanted to stay helping coaches and just doing what I can to contributing to the game in my way. And so was in the shower one day and this kind of came to me. So why don’t you put something together? And defense was kind of my thing and where I’ve had that success as a college basketball coach.

So I started writing man. And [00:03:00] here I am on the other side of the ebook.

Mike Klinzing: [00:03:03] It’s very cool. I think anybody who has sat down to try to write anything, the fact that somebody can crank out. A book it’s difficult. I know I’ve spent a lot of time probably spend now since I started the podcast, I haven’t written nearly as much, but prior to that I spent probably, I don’t know, two or three years writing a blog and coming up with ideas and writing coherently and making sure that I had the things that I wanted to say and getting that down on paper, it’s definitely a process.

And it’s something that anybody who can put pen to paper and come up with a book that is compelling and that has value like yours does. I have a lot of respect for anybody who could do that. So when we look at your book and one of the things that you just touched on, which I think is really, really important.

And you mentioned it when you talked about thinking of yourself kind of as an offensive player, but then really realizing that, Hey, I got to be a [00:04:00] defensive player if I want to be able to play. And I think that’s one of the things that when I think about my own playing career, when I think about opportunities that players, that I’ve seen as a coach, Try to take advantage of their opportunity to get out on the basketball floor.

I see far fewer players than I would like to believe that really adopt that defensive mentality and say, I mean, everybody likes to be a great offensive player. Everybody wants to be that high score, the person that gets to take all the shots. But the reality is is that if you’re a player you should want to be out on the floor playing, and sometimes you’ve got to figure out what that role is that.

Your coach needs you to play. And I can almost guarantee that if there are any players out here listening, or for all our coaches that are in our audience, if you can oppress upon impress upon your players, or if you’re a player yourself, just become a defensive player, commit to it, have that kind of mentality, and you’re going to get great results.

And I think that that’s what I heard [00:05:00] you say off the opening is that you just decided, Hey, I’m going to be a defensive player. And once you decide you’re going to be a defensive player, Now I’ve got something. I think that’s the same thing. When you talk about coaching and you talk about this book, you’re saying, Hey, here’s some things that I’ve learned over the course of my career, as both a player and a coach that can help you to hang your hat on a defense.

And so let’s go into the book and talk a little bit more about it. Give me an idea of the first section in the book. Just kind of gives your background and talks a little bit about some of the things that you said you mentioned in there that you used to watch. The LA Lakers growing up in California and that your guy was Michael Cooper.

So why was Michael Cooper your guy?

Lewis Shine: [00:05:41] man, listen, it’s hard to pick one player off of that team. I mean, absolutely. But you know, he stuck out to me over time because when I looked on the court, when they will square up against guys like [00:06:00] Jordan, whose guarding hime, Michael Cooper. He was guarding the best player on the other team.

And nowadays you see a lot of players you know, except for the mikes and those types of players that are like two way players. They’re not guarding the best player, but you get this guy, Michael Cooper and. He’s the sixth man, but he’s guarding the best player and not backing down. And he’s not magic.

He’s not Kareem. He’s not getting those kind of points. Although he’s getting some points, but he’s playing both ways and he’s not afraid to back down. He’s guarding Dr. J and so I just took a liking to him, man. And I think that any kind of player that plays both ways. It wins my heart automatically because basketball is not a one-way sport.

You know, it’s not a sport where you just focus on your offense all the time. You have to [00:07:00] play defense by default because you’re on the court. You’re going to play defense and to see somebody like Michael or Michael Cooper take pride in it. To me, that just kind of it just hit me in my heart.

It’s like, you know what? That’s kind of player you gotta be.

Mike Klinzing: [00:07:12] Yeah, I think being a two-way player, if you’re a coach, the more two-way players you can have and the more versatile players that you can have on your team and that you can put out on the court for your team is going to give you a better chance for success.

The next section in your book, full court press, and I’ve been. A player and a coach. And I’m not sure that my athleticism always allowed me as a player to be the type of player that would be in a full court pressing on a full court pressing team. But I know that I had the desire to be able to play. And as a coach, I definitely am right with you in terms of.

Having a full court press in your bag and something that if you can do it and you can teach your kids and you can teach your team how to do it, it can be super [00:08:00] effective and it can wear down opponents. And I grew up. Louis watching the Kevin Mackie, Cleveland state, 1986 running stun team with NASA McFadden and Clinton Ramsey and all these guys that just went to Clinton Smith and went up and down the floor.

And he just brought waves and waves of guys. And for people who remember that team, they upset Indiana and the NCAA tournament. And so. That was kinda, my dad was a professor at Cleveland state. So I watched that team and I watched Kevin Mackey coached that team and they just pressed relentlessly for 40 minutes.

And I remember coming out of that as I was probably in junior high and then into high school and just thinking, man, that’s the way that I would want to play as a player. And that’s the way that I would want to play as a coach. So tell us a little bit about, first of all, your philosophy behind why. You believe so much in the full-court press and then we can get into maybe a little bit of the X’s and O’s piece of it.

Lewis Shine: [00:08:55] Yeah. Sounds good, man. So I was fortunate to come up through being [00:09:00] in those kinds of systems. You know, I was glad I did because you know, if it was any other way, I probably wouldn’t have so I can remember far back as high school even junior high, but high school. We had a full court pressing team, we pressed the entire game.

And so just bringing the story from there. I knew that I wanted to be on the court. I was a starter, but I wanted it to be the kind of player that if my coach needed me the entire game, I wanted it to be in that kind of shape. So number one, I took pride in my conditioning. I did conditioning outside of the regular practice or what the coach required.

And so I knew if coach needed me to entire game and we were pressing the entire game, he didn’t have to worry about me being tired. And so we pressed the entire game, my AAU teams pressed the entire game and, and I saw how we gave teams, Fits, I mean, force internal rules left and right. Like it [00:10:00] you know, we didn’t do much pressing when I was at Miami, Ohio.

But we did do some, some different types of defensive things there. But then moving on from there anytime I had an opportunity to coach a team, I always was a fan of the full court press, just because of the results that I saw as a player. And so of course I took a liking to full court pressing teams.

And so when I had my opportunity to put it into play. I surely did it and so last few there areas, if it’s a part of defense and it’s going to make it hard for the other team to get into their offensive flow, then I’m going to do it. And with the full court press, it’s probably the number one thing to disrupt.

An opponent’s offense because it’s right up front they start their offense when they [00:11:00] inbound the ball. And so my number one thing is I’m not going to let them inbound the ball, but also I talk in the chapter, they even before they inbound the ball and this is just I’m a chess type of coach and I’m gonna play it like I’m playing chess.

And so offensive rebounds were a big deal to me. And even before you sit in your press, if you learn to become an offensive rebounding team, what that’s going to do is it’s going to allow for you t get more baskets, but it’s going to give you more opportunities to set up in your press.

You know, if you’re getting one and outs and you know, you’re just shooting and missing and then the other team gets it and goes down the court, that’s a possession that you’re not going to be able to set your press up in, but if you’re missing shots and you’re getting second opportunities, that’s going to give you more opportunities to set up in your press when you make baskets.

And [00:12:00] so we were. Number four when I was a D two head coach, we were number four in the nation in offensive rebounding, because we put a premium on it. And because that helped us set up our press more. And so now once we get in the press, we want to disrupt with the shot clock, we want to disrupt teams.

And even if they get past us, without us getting a turnover in that half court setting, It’s taken at least eight to 10 seconds off the shot clock. And now it’s going to speed up their offense because now they have less time to get through their progressions and get through their looks and try to score.

But before they get to the half court, when they first take it out, our goal was to get a steal. We were going for steals and we knew it a mystery. That’s what we were going to do. And anytime you have a team that not only scores on offense, but can use their defense to score, it’s like a two headed monster and it’s hard for any team to deal [00:13:00] with.

Mike Klinzing: [00:13:00] Yeah. I think one of the quotes that I love in the book that you have is says, if they’re always thinking about how to beat your press, it’s very hard to put a lot of thought. Into their own game plan. I think that’s totally true as a coach. And I think this is especially true at the high school level and below where teams don’t always handle pressure in the same way.

Not that again, a college press you would expect that college teams are at least a little bit better prepared and have more time to prepare for an opponent’s press, but in high school, Even now with the more sophisticated scouting with video and the things that are available at high school coaches, it’s still, when you’re dealing with high school players or when you go below that level and you start talking about middle school or youth basketball.

When you have a team that’s pressing you. And you’re trying to figure out how to break that press and you’ve totally then gone away from what it is that you’re trying to do. It’s like, we just don’t want to turn the ball over the back in the back court and give up layups. [00:14:00] And then once we get the ball across half court, then we got to decide, do we continue on an attack?

Do we pull it back out and try to set up whatever offense it is that we run? And so I think that was a line that stuck out to me in the book is yeah. When you’re pressing, when you can get inside, someone’s head with that pressure. Then you totally take them out of what it is that they’re trying to do, and they have to play faster maybe than they want to.

And then before you know it, you have the pace going and you’re able to dictate tempo to other teams. So to me, that’s completely, I think one of the most important things about oppress now let’s talk about the mechanics of. Oppressing defense. And I know in the book you talk about your favorite press being a one to two.

Just explain why you like the one to two, as opposed to some other setups that you might have and what advantages you think that gives a team when they’re set up in a one to two full court press?

Lewis Shine: [00:14:52] Well I have done some man pressing, so I definitely will do that. The man press [00:15:00] you can create havoc off of that.

But at some point it’s going to single it out to be one-on-one. And so with that, I liked the 1-2-2, because it’s a zone press. It can have some man principles, but what it does is it creates in the back court more opportunity  to not only trap, but it creates more opportunity for turnovers.

And one of the reasons is because when you have your three in the back court, you have your two players across half court they’re, they’re normally guarding the bigs that are in the front court. I had a fast team and a highly athletic team. And so I was able to teach my team how to guard four on three.

So we will have four players pretty much in the back court against their three. And I would [00:16:00] teach my one player how to guard two people in the front court. So. If the ball did get over our heads and past half court, we had a athletic enough team to get back before they could make a move or get a two on one.

We were able to disrupt that. And so it created major disadvantages in the back court to where we got a lot of steals and four defenders with three offensive players, you would think you should win every time. And so we created that type of situation a lot. And it caused us to not only force turnovers, but there were a lot of unforced turnovers, just because of mistakes because they didn’t know our coverages.

But also another reason with the, the one to two is it was a perfect mirror, to the half court, which we did a lot of 3-2 zone. And so when I had my player’s position the [00:17:00] point person their responsibility was to pretty much shadow the inbound or make it hard for the inbound or the seat.

And then once the ball, if it got in. They were able to guide the offense one direction one side of the floor, but also once they got the ball across half court. And I like to say, if they get there, well, cross half court, right. There you go. The point person is also the point person in the 3-2 zone.

So it was a perfect mirror, but we even took it a step further.

Mike Klinzing: [00:17:33] What type of player do you like to put at that? Who’s who’s the ideal positional type or characteristics are you looking for for that player? Who’s playing the point on either the one to two full quarter, the three to half quarter. Are you putting a big rangey athletic guy or are you putting your quick point guard there?

Which one do you prefer in terms of the guy that mans that position?

Lewis Shine: [00:17:53] I liked for it to be my longest, most athletic person, because when we’re, [00:18:00] in the full court, if they’re long and athletic, they can move, they can disrupt the inbound or where they pass influenced that. That’s a problem right there.

So you’re gonna always have that tall person. So normally that could be your three. It may even be your four depending on your personnel and who’s quicker, who’s more athletic or whatnot. Who’s quicker on their toes. So we had a couple of players that were like that. And because of that they were agile enough and were able to move.

And so I would have that same player at the top of the 3-2 as well. Because that point position once the ball is rotated. You know, sometimes that point position would drop to the high post. And so you have that Cross court pass that can be hard. Especially with us. We taught that player how to intercept passes, how to duck under the defense.

And they were able to even you know, make up for mistakes because when they were kind [00:19:00] of out of position, they were able to get back in position quickly and you wouldn’t even be able to tell because of how athletic they were. So that’s the kind of player I would like to have at that position.

Mike Klinzing: [00:19:08] That makes sense.

All right. One of the things that I know when you talk about a one to two press and you think about trying to get that initial trap below the fall line in a full court situation. And there are some coaches that have the philosophy that you just keep trying to get as many traps as you can. Once you have that team kind of pinned down in their back court.

And then there’s other coaches who say once they get that bought or that first trap, we’re kind of out of the press and we’re running back to our. Half-court defense, which one of those philosophies would you say aligns more closely with what you believe?

Lewis Shine: [00:19:41] I would probably say, well, I guess I could kind of explain, I guess I kind of explained mine a little different when that first pass came in, when that trap happened.

[00:20:00] The next pass was a steal for us. We were going for the steal. You know, of course we didn’t always get it, but instead of letting it be the philosophy of, well, if this happens or if they get out of it or whatever, we set up kind of steps. That would almost ensure a steal would happen. And if it didn’t, we would deal with it when it went the way that we didn’t want it to.

But when the first pass came in, we wanted to get that trap. And so that meant our two players that the top player. And let’s say to the strong side the left player we got that trap. The goal there was to be so close on the player and wide of our base that we make the player turn their back.

So now once the player turns their back, there’s a few things that’s happening there. Number [00:21:00] one. They turn their back. They can’t get the long pass that’s going to go over our head because remember what I said earlier, we want it four on three. So that meant there was only one back with two offensive players.

So we wanted that player to turn their back so they couldn’t see the long pass. So with that concept, we’re taking away the long pass. That’s why we can have one player back there. So now. You have an offensive player with the ball, with their back turn, we’re trying to impede their sight line so they can’t see in order to make a good pass.

So now when they’re looking down the line, we have a defender there. That’s stopping that down the line, basically the sideline pass, and then the pass back, we have another defender there. To get that inbound or stop the inbounder from getting the ball. And then we have the other defender that instead of being back guarding two people, we got that [00:22:00] person back.

That’s making the four on three they’re the center fielder. So literally it’s creating disadvantages everywhere and that’s kind of our philosophy. We were going for the steal and in my mind, we created it to where we’re trying to get the steal and we’re trying to set up ways. To ensure that a steal will happen versus.

Setting up so many ways to say, Hey, if we, if, if they break the press, then we’re going to do this. We were really athletic. So if they were to break the press we knew that they were not going to break the pest press with a home run pass. So if they got a pass back to the inbounds passer. We can just shift and now they have to decide what they’re going to do from there.

So, so we were kind of more offensive in our defensive approach. We were coming at you versus kind of reacting to what you do. We wanted to make you do something based on what we were doing,

Mike Klinzing: [00:22:55] How do you instill that mentality in your team? Because I think one of the things that makes [00:23:00] for a successful pressing team is just.

The mentality of, they just keep coming at you and keep coming at you and coming at you. And even though, yeah, occasionally they get beat and give up a layup at the other end because you’re going to be in the passing lane. So, because you’re going to be putting pressure on the ball handler, because you’re going to be committing two guys to the ball.

You’re going to give up some things by doing that. But at the same time, as you said, you’re going to create an forced tempo. You’re going to create steals, but I think. The most effective pressing teams that I’ve ever seen are teams that just have that mentality. So I’m curious as a coach, how do you go about trying to install that?

Mentality that aggressiveness that’s needed in order for you to be a good pressing team. What does that look like day in and day out in terms of teaching points?

Lewis Shine: [00:23:51] Man, it’s fun to talk about and we can talk five hours on this, honestly, but it really, it really starts in the pre-season [00:24:00] honestly, it actually starts as soon as the last season ends.

So the season before I came acting head coach, We lost in the conference tournament championship to go to the NCAA tournament. We didn’t get an at-large bid. So that was a lot of fuel for us then. And so I started a countdown in the office, like the very next day. So when players came in for their exit meetings I was like 364 days to the championship game, you know?

So you’re kind of getting that thing going in their head. And so then. On the defense I’ll just pick a few you know, it starts with I would bring my players in and I would show them clips of whether it was Michael Jordan or Kobe. Full court press. And there’s, there’s a famous one with Kobe he’s full court pressing Dwayne Wade.

You know, there’s the one where Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippin locked up. Tony Kukoc  in the Olympics. I just would feed them that kind of stuff and show them [00:25:00] like the best people that do it. I’m showing them clips of what they’re doing and how they’re creating habits. So I’m feeding that into a mentality.

We will have film sessions. We will open film sessions up with clips like that. When I meet with my guards, I show them that feeding that kind of stuff into them, then. Throughout the season. You know, as the season starts, we’re looking at teams like Ashlyn and the top teams in the country. And we’re saying, we’re going to take that spot.

So as we progress during the season and we were top 10 in the steals, we put those things in the locker room and putting them up and circle them, and then we’re celebrating them. And, and we had a few players that were top in the nation in steals on that team. We’re celebrating them and we’re constantly talking about it and we’re constantly keeping it before their eyes. So it’s not like a mystery and it’s not like a oops. Oh, Hey, guess what? We’re in top 10? No, no, we were going after it. And so in practice, we had to do things on purpose [00:26:00] in order for that to happen. So it’s kind of like shooting the ball. If you’re gonna increase the percentage, you’re going to get them on a Dr. Dish machine or something like that and get shots up. And the individual workout, you’re trying to improve their percentage. So in practice, if I wanted steals, we had to directly work on that. So I had to show them how to shoot passing lanes, how to deny the ball, how to sit under the defense. So the offensive player that has the ball, they in their eyesight, they don’t see you cause you’re ducking away, but you can read what they’re doing and you can Telegraph their passes, they’re telegraphing their passes, and you can see that.

So you know how to step into the passing lane. So we had a number of things just as. As if you’re working on your offense, we worked on our defense and we worked on steals. And so that kind of fed us that, that, that helped us in on top of that. We built that because we knew that if we’re going to have a full court present team that did that all game, then [00:27:00] we knew we had to be in some crazy, crazy shape, you know?

So our conditioning, what we were going to do on the court. So our players knew and understand that if we wanted a certain type of result, then we had to work out and condition a certain type of way. And they bought into that and we were chasing the championship. I mean to conclude in the end, anything that we passed out that year had a national championship trophy on it.

And we were that year I was acting head coach. We were literally chasing that. We knew how far we came the last year. We felt that if we got into the tournament, we would have did some damage. And so we said this year, you know what, we’re going to go for it all and let the chips fall where they may, and we knew that defense was going to carry us there.

So there was this, a lot of different things tied together that kind of drove us. And kind of kept that thing in front of us and in front of the players. And because of that, the results that’s why they happen. And our players bought into it because we fit that into them. And [00:28:00] that just, they understood what we were trying to do and they bought into it.

Mike Klinzing: [00:28:03]I think what I hear you saying is that you have to have a mentality that’s out there every single day. You have to be intentional. You have to put an emphasis on it. And if you put an emphasis on it and it’s something that you talk about, it’s something that you recognize. It’s something that you celebrate.

Then you can start to get your players to buy in and that I’m sure it doesn’t happen in a day. It doesn’t happen in two days. But as you said, when you start it the day after your season finishes and you’re already pointing towards next year’s championship game, that gives you an opportunity to be able to utilize all those days that you have ahead of you to instill that mentality, that’s going to be needed.

If you’re really going to be able to be at team that full court presses, you mentioned a couple of times conditioning and how important conditioning is if you’re going to be a pressing team. And I don’t think there’s any question that if you’re going to get up and down the floor, offensively and defensively, that you’ve got to be in optimal condition.

So [00:29:00] when you think about a conditioning program, And let’s focus on in season rather than out of season, because then we could die. We could dive into a hole that that could be a whole nother podcast, but let’s just focus on in season. What are some things that you would like to build into your practices that help to increase your players conditioning?

Were there specific things that you were doing that somebody could easily identify as. Oh, that’s, this is when they’re going through and they’re doing their conditioning, your dude, they’re doing their traditional wind sprints, or they’re doing their, whatever weightlifting or they’re doing their plyometrics.

There’s that piece of it. But then there’s also building it into some of the drills and just the way you run your practices. So just talk a little bit about how you condition your team to be a full court pressing team during the season.

Lewis Shine: [00:29:50] Yeah. So, man, like you said,  we can talk for days on this stuff, man.

But you know, pre-season was a one thing and maybe we can talk about it [00:30:00] another time, but it’s, it’s so key because during the season you know, you can’t, you can’t Slack off, but you also can’t work them to the bone where. It is pre season in season you have to kind of watch it a little bit.

And one of my things was I built the conditioning into the drills. So it wasn’t like the, the sprints and different things we did in the, in the preseason you don’t want to wear a player out like that. That’s the prepare, but in season was more maintaining because you know, pre-season was.

I want to get them to a certain level. Now that we’re in season it’s okay. We don’t want that to drop. So we would do things like we would do when we open practice, we would do certain drills. But our conditioning was in those drills for core layups. You had to go game speed, those types of things, keeping the momentum up.

We would also do a lot of drills [00:31:00] where they were competitions and the losers had to run sprints. You know, so not only does that allow for the players to have to play harder because they want to win whatever the competition is. You know, if you lose, you have to run. And so it’s kind of a double whammy type of thing, but a lot of times we would have players that would if they lost a drill, they run, you would get some times the players that won, they would jump in there and run with them just because they had our goals on the forefront of their mind. Another thing that worked for me, man, I was a type of coach where I always try to lead by example. And so me at the time I was 37 going on 38, but I was out there running with them because I wanted them to know that if this almost 40 year old coach he’s out here and he’s in it with us, then [00:32:00] it does something to a player it’s like, okay, coach Lew, out here with us, he believes in this enough that yeah. You know, and I’m out there, I’m running with them, I’m huffing and puffing with them. I’m encouraging them. And then I could turn around and use that say, Hey, I’m almost 40. You know, if I can do it, you can do it.

Let’s do this together. It just worked a different dynamic for me. And I’ll always be that kind of coach. Those were just some of the things And then I actually, I have to throw this in here. This is more of a pre-season. Although there were times we kind of got into this in the regular season.

We would do certain things like there was interval workouts, treadmill workouts that we would do that, what it does is you’re running at a high RPM. And then when you slow down, you’ll go, you’ll go like a quarter of a mile at a high RPM, like at 6.0, then you’ll go down to 5.0, but it’s teaching your body [00:33:00] how to recover while you’re moving. And sometimes in practice, we would do those same kinds of things where you do the I can’t remember the name that they call it, but it’s the Indian Run. There you go. We would do those kinds of things. But our Indian Run was at a whole different level. I mean,  it was different.

Mike Klinzing: [00:33:19] Tell me what tell me what it looked like. Cause I have, so I’ve coached my. All my kids’ teams and my son’s team, he’s now a freshman in high school, but when we were in elementary school, I had an assistant coach. So he loved to do the Indian run. And so there was many, many practices where we would get into the end.

Maybe he say to me, Hey, let’s do the Indian run. I’m like, all right, let’s do it. And so then you get whatever our fourth or fifth graders try to run it for people I’m assuming most people probably know what the basic idea is, but pretty much what you have is a line of players. And. The person in the in the back has to sprint up to the front and get in front of the line.

And we incorporated some free [00:34:00] throws and different things in it. But the basic premise is everybody’s moving. And at a certain point, when you get to the back of the line, you have to sprint back up to the front of the line. And so it gets to be very tiring depending upon sort of the parameters that you put in front of it.

So just give us an idea of what yours looks like.

Lewis Shine: [00:34:15] So a lot of times it was like it was the whole line was sprinting and that back person had to kick it into another gear just to get in front of the line. So it wasn’t like an everybody goes slow and it was just a different kind of speed, a different, it was a different, it was just a different intensity.

And another thing I’m wanting to mention earlier, too, before I mentioned the Indian run was a lot of our stuff was timed. And so if you lost the drill, we would do three on three, on three, on three red drills. if you were not the team that won, so you have like four teams that didn’t win, they’re on the line.

You have to, we call them [00:35:00] 11. So you gotta make a down and back in 11. If you don’t make it, everybody’s on the line and run again. And you run until you make the time. So that produced a different kind of mentality. And when you do that, players don’t make it because there’s a level inside of all of us that you can attain,  you have to get pushed and you have to get put in a situation, a complex situation that that’s going to make you respond in a different way.

So there was never a time that we had a player like, okay, you couldn’t make it the first, second time. Okay. Well we’re just gonna, you didn’t make it as a coach. And you know, it’s, it’s a different time as far as being a coach. But the way I grew up was we’re going to stay here till you make it. I mean, if we have to go the rest of the practice, we’re going to be right here and somewhere, I had to find it in me to make that sprint.

[00:36:00] And that’s what helped me to have the success as a player I did. And I believe that was a part of the success that we had when I was acting head coach. And I’ve been a part of teams and being a part of coaching staffs that would just move on, just like, okay, you didn’t make what I get is fine. We’ll just move on.

But you got to look at the lesson that’s being taught there. So now when you’re in the championship game and we need this last pressing possession, we need a turnover. Where, where will the player dig deep to get something they’ve never been? They’d never been taught. Dig deep to get anything that’s already there.

You got to put them in that kind of position so that when you get in that championship game, They’re they know how to pull from somewhere to get what they need.

Mike Klinzing: [00:36:46] Yeah. I’m going to give you a little story that happened to me when I was playing at Kent state.

And so I can’t remember the exact circumstances that led to it. I know there was an unhappy coaching staff for whatever [00:37:00] reason, but we had to, we had to run ladders, suicides, whatever you want to call them. So. We where you go fall on back, half-court back. Opposite file on back and full court back.

And we had to, we were running in two groups. So you had, the guards were running. Guards had to make that in 28 seconds and bigs had to make it in 32 and every time that and they were, the guards ran separately from the, from the, from the bigs. So each time a group made it, you got three points. And we went, we were going to 75 points and I think the bigs made the first one.

And then I don’t think they made another one the rest of the time. So it was kind of left to the guard. So you can kind of do the math in your head of how many times you had to run in order to make that. And I don’t think we made every single one. So you’re talking probably we ran, I would guess 30. Of those old fashioned suicides in order to get to [00:38:00] that 75 points.

And you talk about having to, having to dig deep, especially when you kind of look at your teammates, the bigs, and you’re like, come on, fellows, you guys are running in like 38 now. Like you’re not even getting close. We got to get 28 every single time, but you figure out a way. And to your point, I don’t think that back in the day, coach McDonald, who was our coach at Kent while I was there.

You know, he didn’t let those things slide and we just kept going and he was like, you’re, you’re going to make it. And then you find out something about yourself. And certainly it’s something that in the moment you’re like, I think this guy might be crazy. And now I look back on it and it’s a great story, but you can certainly see once you shift over from the player side of it, to the coach side of it, you understand the lesson that.

He was trying to get across and, and teach. And as you said, you kind of alluded to it just for a second there that times are different and things are certainly not the way they were 30 years ago when I was playing college basketball and the way that coaches [00:39:00] coach and the way we interact with players and do things is different, but there’s still something to be said for encouraging your players, to dig deep and figuring out a way to get them in the best possible condition, both mentally and physically.

Lewis Shine: [00:39:13] Yeah, definitely. It helps with us being players before, because I always say we know all the tricks, because we’ve been through it, I can look at a player and know that. You’re not tired or you got a little something in you. Like I’ve been there. I felt that pain of not wanting to run the next sprint.

I felt how it feels like you just want to just fall through the floor. You so tired. Like you feel like your stomach is just in your throat somewhere. It’s just, I felt that. And so I got through it and so. I know you can, and here’s the catch. I’m almost 40 and I’m out here doing it with you now. And so I know you got it.

So for me, [00:40:00] it was never like a tour meeting type of thing where I’m just putting you through. And I just want players think the coaches just want to see them suffer, you know? No. I know you got greatness in you and I want to help you. I want to help push that out of you. I want you to leave here and bring your kids back and they can look up and see, Hey mommy or daddy,  that’s our banner right there. We were a part of that team and I would always say stuff like that. And so it just helped fuel them. And like I say, I would get out there with them and they brought that extra like, okay, coach is right here.

I see coach sweating coach on his knees. You know, coach get up, you get up to it’s a family. And it brings the best out of the players, man. And so, like I say, us being players, we know where they are and I think even those stories to them, it kind of resonates in their mind and say, you know what?

And coach got through it. He’s telling them stories. Let me give it one more try, let me [00:41:00] push through this next sprint. And it works, man.

Mike Klinzing: [00:41:03] There’s no doubt. I think that there’s something to be said for getting the most out of your players. And I think that that’s something that when you think about what.

Coaching is it’s kind of taking players to a place that they couldn’t get to by themselves. And that’s your job as a coach and different coaches have different ways of doing that. And you have to find what works for you. And again, just goes back to, do you have a philosophy of being a pressing team or do you have a philosophy of being a half-court man demand team or are you a half court trap team or whatever it may be.

There’s lots of different ways that you can go at it. But ultimately the job of the coach is to get the most out of the players and get the most out of their team. And I think that’s what we’re both talking about here is kind of looking at it from the perspective of, Hey, when I was a player, I kind of looked at it one way and maybe thought about it in a certain way.

And that as a coach, you kind of realize that there’s a lot more, that goes into some of those decisions. That are made in [00:42:00] terms of what we do inside and outside of practice to help, to best prepare the team and the individual player to win games. Let’s go and talk about something else in your book that kind of is a theme that runs through it.

And that is. You talk a lot in the book about how you use film to be able to study technique and then transfer that through teaching points out on the court with your own players. So just give us an idea of some of the things when you’re watching film and let’s kind of keep it focused on the full court press.

What are some things that you look for? Maybe what’s a team or a coach that’s out there today and today’s game that you like to watch. To pick up techniques are good things that you could that apply with your teams.

Lewis Shine: [00:42:46] Man, I’ll tell you I probably watched more Geno Auriemma than any coach because I was at the time coach of women’s basketball.

So I watched a ton of Geno you know And a lot of him, [00:43:00] I watched for a lot of offensive things. So I watched some of that for that, but most of  the defensive side came from me as a player when I played Also watch some I will say like some, some UCLA because they did, they did some 1-2-2.

So I watched a little bit of them as well, but like I say, I took a lot from when I played and I kinda did a lot of that, but in terms of film you know,  there was two sources of film and showing them defensive techniques. I would, like I say, often go to the greats that when you think about they were the best to do it or whatever.

But in terms of studying the film of the opposing team I would, man, there was times I’m in the office. Midnight, one o’clock I, I lived steps from the office so it was easy for me to be there [00:44:00] studying film on synergy and different things like that. But when I would break down a team and study a team I’m looking for one of the first things, because.

I just have a defensive mind. And I knew I defense really wins championships. You know, I was a part of one of them. And so when I study a game, one of the first questions I’m going to ask him before I ask any other question is who leads them turnovers. I want to know who turns the ball over the most.

And if they’re in their starting lineup, they’re in trouble. Because we’re coming for you. And so when you’re looking at keeping the focus on the full court press, if they’re in that back court somewhere, if they’re averaging five turnovers, we’re going to make them get 10 this game, we’re going to put more pressure on them than they’ve ever seen in their life.

And so we’re, we’re going to test those averages. You know, those averages are there for a reason cause is telling you what they do. And [00:45:00] we’re going to put that to the test. So if they’re averaging five, that means. That’s the middle. So they might’ve gotten games with her seven, eight, nine. So I’ll go look at those things.

What, what did the other team do to make that player? Or if you zoom out and say, what did the other team do to make this team average their season high in turnovers. I want to see what they did because what they did, it worked. And I’m going to take some of that as well as use our philosophy and make it worse for him.

You know? So that’s kind of one on one. I started a scout and I’m looking at film, I’m looking for those things. So now I take those things. I take those clips. And so when we go to film session, those are things I’m showing my players. I’m showing my players, Hey, this player right here, they’re average in this they’re right hand dominant. Anytime they go to their left, their quickly cross back over to their right, [00:46:00] because they’re not really a good left-hand ball handler. I’m breaking it down like that for them. So that when they get in the game, always say, and I joke around with it, but it’s pretty serious by the time I’m done scouting, I want to know the shoe string color of the player. I want to know every detail. So when I deliver that to my players, they can be confident enough to when they go and guard that player, they can know that coach Lew is handing them the keys to success because he’s watched that film. And if he says push that player to the right.

He’s saying that for a reason, I’m giving them the reason. So they know if they do that they’ll have success. And so we’re looking for those kinds of things that are going to bring us if the player gets the ball in bounds, they always look right for that next pass. I’m looking at all those tendencies and we had the programs that [00:47:00] also gave us tendencies, like synergy. If you’re familiar with that, it’s at the college level, it gives you the percentages that a player might drive. Right.  I mean, in a scout, you can’t watch all the games. You can watch enough games. A lot of times I’ll watch the last three games and then maybe a key game that, like I say, if that was their high in turnovers, I’ll go watch that game.

But I’ll also depend on the percentages in synergy. Of saw what a player tendencies are. And I deliver that to my players and it made it easy for us a lot, because like I said before, a lot of times, if that’s a players average or their percentage, the percentage of their shots are on the right side of the court, inside the three points.

Then it’s probably going to be like that. You know, at least for me, the season that you’re in, they might change in the off seasons. But a lot of times those tendencies are spot on for that season. And they don’t change a lot specially at the colleges, so we were [00:48:00] able to play on that and have great success.

So film sessions were great for us. We didn’t rush film sessions. We didn’t rush to get on the court. A lot of times we went over and filmed sessions because that was the time where we had to study. And we did a lot of work in there on the court, we were fine, but if we had to do more time in there to get our players on course, so they can know mentally what they need to do.

We were conditioned well enough athletically and fashioned enough in our game plan of what we were going to do. We were fine, especially when it gets later in the season, but I wanted them to mentally know what to do. So film sessions were a premium for us.

Mike Klinzing: [00:48:40] All right. So I’ve heard coaches say, and this is one of the things that I think is really important to talk about when it comes to film is that you have to, as a coach study that film, get to know your opponents inside and out in terms of what they do, both on the offensive end of the floor and the defensive end of the floor, get to know their [00:49:00] personnel.

And you have to really, really understand the complexity of what your opponent is all about so that you can make it very, very simple. For your players when you share that scouting report with them, because if you overwhelm players and you, and I both know as players, that if somebody hands me a 10 page scouting report, I I mean, I might read it, but my ability to process that and actually get anything useful that I’m actually going to apply during a game is very minimal.

I want just, what are some simple actions that are going to do? I want to know a little bit about the player that I’m guarding and their tendencies, and pretty much as a player. I’m not sure that I can process much more than that, but as a coach, I want to be able to know everything that there is to know so that I can simplify, give the player what they need.

So maybe talk a little bit about how much. Film that you would watch with players, like in a, in a given day, like, let’s say you’re watching film before practice. Is that an everyday [00:50:00] thing? And how many minutes are you watching? Just how much of that film are you sharing with players to be able to get across to them what you want to get across to them?

Lewis Shine: [00:50:07] I’ll be honest with you too. On that note, a lot of film wasn’t the opponent, a lot of film was us. Or a lot of film was mixing in them clips of other people. We would go over personnel of a team that we’re playing, but that was a very small point because I’m the type of coach that believes in, if you do what you do and you do that well, it doesn’t matter what the other team does.

I want my players to have an idea because when you look at prior games that a team that you’re going to play their prior games. It’s a cheat sheet almost. So you want them to kind of have an idea, but you don’t want to focus so much on what the other team’s doing. Then you’re [00:51:00] not really honing in on what you’re doing.

So for instance, we knew what we did in the full court press. So in a lot of ways I could care less what a team was doing. We were coming out to do that, and we don’t care if you knew we were doing it, you knew it. The whole league knew. So we were coming to do it. And so it was up to you to figure out how you’re going to stop what we’re doing.

So in that case for us, we’re not really looking at their press breaker. We might show a couple of clips and we’re moving on because we know what we’re gonna do. And we’re just giving them a few looks. As far as timing, let’s say that we would have games on Tuesdays and Saturdays during the season.

So after a Tuesday game, we got Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So our major film session will be the day before. So Friday was a scout practice. And so film would be about an hour, but showing the other teams personnel, it might’ve been 15 to 30 minutes of that. Depending on our opponent when you look in the [00:52:00] second half of the season, when you’re playing opponents twice, it might be less because you kind of see what they’re doing.

And as coaches, we’re tracking them throughout the season. So we know that, Hey, if a team’s doing this and we can see them doing it, as we’re watching other games, you’re probably going to do against us. So we’re just really brushing up on things. But the majority of film is like, We might go over our last game to improve what we did or how we can sharpen up different things that we’re doing.

We would also pull in our players, so we will have individual film meeting. So all the guards I will pull, like maybe the six or seven guards into the office and we’ll go over guard duties. We’ll pull the bigs and they may have different assignments depending on what we’re playing in.

Those might be 10 to 15 minutes like between classes, stop in, Hey, let’s do this. And then we’re out. So we didn’t bombard them with a lot of it. And then the last one with the film I showed you, we would have individual workouts. So if we were working with a guard and we were showing them maybe some in and outs or how to go through a double screen and get the guard on your back.

[00:53:00] You know, we might’ve worked on that in practice, but then later on I will send my player an eight minute film of Isaiah Thomas with the Boston Celtics doing that very same thing for eight minutes. And so it’s tying in to them that what we just showed you, we didn’t make that up. And it brings a profile to say, Hey, this is so it just has a way of tying in with them.

And this is like, coach can show you, but if you show them an NBA player doing it, they’re like, Oh, okay. You know, so it’s just something that we use to help reinforce what we were doing. And so those are the different types of films that we would use

Mike Klinzing: [00:53:35] Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I think it, when you talk about watching your own film and then obviously there’s two ways that you can watch your own film, you can watch.

Positive clips. We say, look, here’s what we’re trying to accomplish defensively. And we executed it perfectly. And then conversely, you can show clips where, Hey, here’s where we didn’t execute the things that we wanted to do. And so I think as a coach, you want to balance those two out [00:54:00] where you are showing positive clips of what the players are doing, and then you’re also showing some things.

Well, here’s an opportunity for us to learn from a mistake that we made within the game. And it’s amazing how much easier. Watching film is today than it was 15 or 20 years ago. It’s kind of been a running theme through the podcast for, especially for coaches who are a little bit older that grew up in an era of VCRs going and mailing VHS tapes and meet meeting on the road to exchange tapes with other, with other coaches.

It’s a, it’s a totally different world. Now what you can go through it. And to that, speaking to that, the next section in your book talks about three point field goal defense. And we all know that the game has. Shifted dramatically in the last 10 years to where the three-point field goal has become so much more an important part of the game than it was even 10 years ago.

And we’re 10 years ago, you might’ve had a handful of teams that were shooting a lot of threes. At [00:55:00] this point. The game has pretty much shifted where everybody is shooting a lot of threes and you better be able to defend that. So just talk a little bit about. The philosophy that you have defending the three point field goal on what you can do as a coach to get out and defend the three point line.

Lewis Shine: [00:55:13] Yeah. So man, one of my pet peeves, Oh my gosh, is to see I was watching the game say about, well, I looked back over a game. I didn’t get to watch that. I watch highlights and went back to the stats or whatever. And I saw a team, they got beat, but the team went 12 for 26 from the three point line against him.

And I’m like, my gosh, like it’s one thing when you make three, four, maybe five against me, but that can happen. But if you’re making 12 on me, okay, I’m not doing my job now. Like it’s not that. Oh, you’re good. It’s that I’m not playing defense. [00:56:00] And when you break that down, 12, three pointers, that’s 36 points.

And if a team score is 75 points, that’s it word? That’s  half the points almost. It’s like you, you deserve to lose, you deserve to lose the game. And I think that that will continue to happen and you see it all the time that will continue to happen until coaches decide to put a premium on three point line defense.

Always say it like this. If the NCAA is tracking the stat. You know, there’s a lot of stats that the NCAA they don’t track. But if you can look on the NCAA website and they’re tracking three point field goal defense, this is important because they’re not going to waste the money to track that.

And so if they think it’s important, I’m going to think it’s important. And so I became the type of coach that I said, we’re not going to lose games because we’re not getting out on the three-point line. It is very hard for an offensive player to shoot a three-pointer [00:57:00] with accuracy if there’s a defender, they’re getting the hand up in the face or trying to block the side, it’s impossible.

Or if for me, If you’re hugging the three point line, that’s going to push you out. And so we worked on those kinds of things. We worked on them in our shell drills. You know, we made it a premium that when that balls in flight, you have to be moving. And when that ball is caught, if they catch it, you need to be in front of them, waiting for them. And so we worked on quickness. We, we, we, we did footwork drills and the conditioning that takes the quickness and the, and the speed to get there. So that teams are not just getting three point open three pointers on us and transitions trails, a lot of teams like to float that player to the three point line.

Well, we knew that we were ready for that kind of stuff. So getting back that’s where we knew we had to be. And so. When [00:58:00] scouting a team if they’re a three point shooting team, you know how they win their games. If you know that they’re winning their games by three pointers, then your Scouts should be full of guarding the three point line. And so for us, we hugged the three point line, our defensive stance was on the three point line. So that makes you have to shoot for that. In the three point line, you can’t be snug and comfortable right behind the line, shooting three pointers. We were not going to let you do that.

And so we worked at, we worked at it over and over and over. It was an important part of our practice. And at the end of the year, we were not as high as we wanted to be. Well, a lot of the premium went up other places. We were 27th in the nation, but you know, if you look back at our season teams didn’t beat us by just spraying us with three pointers.

It just wasn’t happening. And so when you look at all the aspects of the game, that was for sure one aspect that we wanted to have a handle on because you know, three points is more than two. We don’t want to reward [00:59:00] teams with three pointers, just because we were not playing defense. So we wanted to make sure we were on top of that.

So that we would, we could take that factor out in terms of that was a way a team beat us. And you know, you can look across conferences. You know, the last place I coached it was able to in D one conference, You can look across the conference and tell the teams that we’re three point shooting teams, and those are the teams you had to be ready for.

And a lot of times we were ready for those teams and almost kind of cut the head off the snake. Like that’s what they depended on. We took that away. We beat them and it’s that simple. So we tried to keep it simple man like that. And we won a lot of games because of it.

Mike Klinzing: [00:59:40] Yeah. It’s so important in today’s game.

I don’t think there’s any way that you can. Have a defensive philosophy and not have some type of focus on, Hey, we got to take away and limit just like offenses today. Are you think about the Houston rockets philosophy and the we want to shoot threes, layups and free throws. And to some degree, I think a [01:00:00] lot of coaches have adopted that philosophy, obviously in the college game.

It’s a little bit more difficult to play completely that way. And you have players that are quite as skilled as they are in the NBA, but nonetheless, there certainly is a different. Shot profile over the course of a game than what you would have seen in a game 20 years ago. And so as a coach, you have to make that adjustment and you have, as you said, You got to work on that every day, you got to talk about what it means to be there on the catch so that you’re taking away those catch and shoot threes, which are obviously the easiest ones for most players to be able to make.

If you put them half a college player, especially, or a high school player, put the ball on the floor and then shoot a three there percentage. I don’t know what exactly it would be, but it certainly goes down. And so you want to make sure that you have that. Three point defense buckled down and, and making sure that you’re doing something with that every single day in your practices.

The last section of the book, Louis, you talk about post player defense, and you have a concept there of putting down some meet and greet [01:01:00] lines on the floor to help your players to better understand what you want them to do when defending the post. So talk a little bit about that. It’s something that I had not heard or seen anybody else do.

So just talk a little bit about what that. Is all about and how that helps you to play better post defense with your teams.

Lewis Shine: [01:01:16] So when I was at Central State, man, I used to go down to Ohio state practices all the time. My guy Martin Mitchell, he’s opened the door for me. And so I would go sit in their practices, man.

And one of the things I noticed when there was tape all over the floor, I’m talking about, man, it was tape everywhere. So I got to ask him about different things, man. And so. Literally, I took those concepts back to central state and I started taping the floor. And a lot of our defensive concepts you know, in terms of where players need to be, where to open windows were just different things where lines were.

So, so it just kind of helped the concepts. You know, it’s just something that visually, if I’m [01:02:00] trying to explain something and then I can show you. Where the spacing is, it just kind of helps so kind of took those concepts, man, with me to Winthrop, where I was associate head coach there. And I probably broke a record, I think in my mind, always say that for ordering tape, we have boxes and boxes of tape, different colors and everything.

And so one day while taping the floor. You know, I was over bigs and in our post player breakdown or a guard break down, I would take the post players. And so I worked with them and so one day I was just doing it, man. And I said, you know what? Like I was explaining to them the concept, but it kinda came to me like, you know what, why don’t I create a line for this?

How can I illustrate this to them by taping the floor? And it just came to me to do it. And I started calling it the meet and greet we did a lot of meet and greets in college, you know the coaches [01:03:00] we have a meet and greet at the president’s a home or the meet and greet when the players come on.

Official visits or whatever and it’s all, it just came to my mind as a catchy thing. I was like, you know what, we’re calling this, the meet and greet line. And so the concept behind it is you don’t want to let, as a post defender, you don’t want to let a post player just come and just set up wherever they want.

If you just let them come to the block and set up, that’s going to make it easy for them. It’s gonna make it harder for you because they’re in position. But the further you push them out of position, the harder it is going to be for them, unless they’re like a Dirk or somebody that can like do the inside out player.

A lot of times, especially in our league, you didn’t find that. And so we didn’t want players to set up comfortably on the block. So we wanted to meet them coming down the floor as far out as we could. And so we created that line off of the block, we call it the meet and greet line. You have to meet and greet your [01:04:00] defender, coming down the floor at that line.

And it’ll be up to them to fight for position from there. But we were not going to let them come down and comfortably just set up on the block. That’s too close to the basket. And so that was the meet and greet line. And we put that down every practice. And you know, when you put lines on the court during practice Is this going to get ingrained in the player’s mind?

So during the game, you’re remembering that even though the line’s not there, when I put this line down, we don’t want a player to come down court and set up on the block. We want them to set up away from the block and it’s going to make it harder for them to score and get in position like they want which is also going to take their percentage down because they’re going to try to make moves that they’re not comfortable with.

It just does a number of things and it just created advantages for us and disadvantages for the defense. And so this was just a concept that we had that really, really helped us a lot and just sharing it in the book, post defense is a big thing. It’s a [01:05:00] huge thing. And you know, it prevents a lot of teams you’ll see, I was looking at some stats over another game and this team had 40 plus points in the paint.

And I’m like, Oh I hate to see that, but this kind of concept for us helped us to limit a team’s points in the paint because statistically and percentage wise, it takes away some of those opportunities because you’re pushing a player out. It just takes away some of those opportunities.

So this, this helped us in that kind of situation where a team might be scoring a lot of points in the paint. We’re going to push them off the block and make them have to react to what we’re doing. Instead of letting them get comfortable shots like they want to.

Mike Klinzing: [01:05:46] Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense.

And when you talk about. Trying to keep a team from scoring a lot of points in the, in, in the paint that goes back to what we just talked about a second ago with shooting and trying to get run teams off the three point line, you got to [01:06:00] understand what your opponent is trying to do and where their strengths are, and then make them do something else.

And if you can teach these concepts of how to defend the three-point line, you can teach how to. Play in the post and try to prevent your player from getting good position. When you can get out in the full court press and you can just re-upped their offense and what they want to do. Now, you’re really starting to build the type of defensive philosophy and the type of defensive team where your defense can be, what drives winning.

And I think that’s the main overarching point that you were trying to get across throughout the book, in addition to the X’s and O’s, that are a piece of it. It really comes down to, you have to develop your philosophy. You have to be able to teach it to your players. And then once you’ve done those two things, it gives you the opportunity to be a strong defensive team, which can obviously lead to winning on the scoreboard.

So before we wrap up Louis, I want to give you a chance to one, tell people about where they can get the book to tell [01:07:00] us about some of the other things that you have going on right now in terms of. Being able to help coaches and. Allow them to improve themselves and how you’re trying to give back to the coaching profession right now in what you’re doing as an entrepreneur, as a coach, as a guy who loves the game of basketball.

So just kind of give us the quick synopsis of what you’re up to right now with not actively being in coaching

Lewis Shine: [01:07:25]. You know, just keeping myself relevant I’ve been mentoring coaches at every level. You know, I’ve also had an amazing opportunity to be able to go in and talk to coaches that including I’ve been to you know, cities where I’ve done two day symposiums with like a particular team or two, and just going in and You know, looking at their practice monitoring that having individual meetings with the players having a session with the coaches talking strategy for the season [01:08:00] you know, I’ve done a lot of those things.

I’ve done before COVID pre-game talks, you know those kinds of things as well. So as well as mentoring coaches all over Had an opportunity just to be on phone calls with 30 minutes sessions with coaches, just talking through strategy, answering questions, helping them to come up with a strategy for their team, whether that’s on the court, off the court, team building those kinds of things.

Just ways to fortify a team, a little more in terms of their goals. Just done a lot of those things. And so I’m doing a lot of that. As well as have created a lot of different tools for coaches, one being this book, but I’ve also, on my website, have a lot of different tools, time out charts, templates for scouting, different things like that.

So just been trying to as well as all my site I have link now with free resources. So I’ll put a lot of videos up there just of individual workouts I did in college and just different things. Coaches can go there and just grab things for free, different concepts. [01:09:00] So just been busy, just trying to bring value to the coaching space and because I’m not able to do what I would do normally on the court and in practice, I’m just sharing some of the concepts that I’ve learned over time  not only a coach, but a pro player and college D one player and just trying to help the space, man people have helped me. Yeah. I just want to give back to the coaches, especially those younger ones. Even with the younger ones,  I’ve created a new and aspiring coaches webinar. It’s a three video webinar. Each video has a PDF that goes along with it, with notes and stuff like that.

So that’s on my website as well. So just try to create those things to help coaches. And as far as with my book you can find my book on my website LewisShine.com. And you can click on coaches and you’ll see the book there. Or if you want to go to the direct link it’s LewisShine.com/defenseebook.

You can find the book there as well. We’ll love your support would, love to get it into the coach’s hands that are [01:10:00] listening. I think it would be a great resource for your team

Mike Klinzing: [01:10:05] Lewis. We cannot thank you enough for jumping back on with us for a second time and any coaches that are out there. If you get a chance to check out Lewis’s stuff, as he said, one of the things I love about what he does is he’s putting out a lot of resources that you can access for free that can help you to improve your coaching.

And. I hope that you’ll support him and go out and find his book, go to Lewis, schein.com, check out all the great things that he has to offer. We really appreciate you Lewis jumping back on with us. It was fun to go into a little bit of a deeper dive into some X’s and O’s on defense and talk a little bit of a philosophy and.

And that kind of thing. So we really are thankful that you decided to join us again and to everyone out there. Thanks for listening. And we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.

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