Hernando Planells

Website – http://hernandoplanells.com/

Email – h@hernandoplanells.com

Twitter – @hernandojr

Hernando Planells has one of the most diverse backgrounds in basketball in both coaching and player development.

He has coached at every level, most recently as an assistant coach for the Duke women’s program.  Plannells coached with the Maine Red Claws in the NBA Development League and founded ELITE athlete training, which specialized in personal training and consulting services for athletes. Through his work with ELITE, he trained and assisted over 100 athletes reach their goal of gaining a college scholarship or playing professionally.

From 2005-10, Planells served as a scout for Marty Blake, who is the Director of Scouting for the NBA. In his role as a scout, Planells put together scouting reports evaluating NBA prospects which were circulated to every NBA general manager and player personnel director. He was a head coach in the Basketball Japan League and led two minor league pro teams as their head coach.

From 2003-05, Planells served as an assistant coach for Citrus College in California. He was both an assistant and a head coach at the high school level early in his career.  His work on the court led him to the “big screen” where he choreographed and consulted on the basketball scenes and trained the actors in movies such as “Coach Carter”, “The Longest Yard”, “Rebound”, “Spider-Man 3”, “Semi-Pro” and others. He also trained the athletes of “Extreme Dodgeball”, the highest rated show on the Game Show Network and has appeared on SPIKE TV’s smash hit SLAMBALL as the head coach for the Bouncers.

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What We Discuss with Hernando Planells

  • Learning how to make connections with people as he evolved
  • Realizing the impact he could make as a coach
  • A coach’s stress level and how to deal with it
  • Being quiet in the stands at his kids games and tough on them on the car ride home
  • Different coaching styles and their effect on long-term outcomes
  • Advice on serving the head coach as an assistant
  • Figuring out what the players need from you as head coach
  • Attending clinics to improve as a young coach
  • Using his experiences outside of coaching to become a better leader
  • Why just showing up is so important
  • How Hernando got started working in the movie industry training actors
  • What his days on a movie set looked like when he was training actors to hoop
  • Selling yourself is a key skill that leads to success
  • Avoid comparing yourself to others
  • Building a strong network of genuine relationships
  • Being a great listener and giving people an experience each time they interact with you
  • His experiences coaching in the minor leagues of pro basketball
  • Learning not to talk too much while he was coaching in Japan
  • His time as an NBA Scout working for Marty Blake
  • How the opportunity to become a women’s assistant coach at Duke came about
  • Advice for becoming a great recruiter
  • Why he enjoyed coaching the women at Duke – gratitude
  • Culture shaping questions all coaches should ask themselves

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[00:00:00] Mike Klinzing: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here with my co-host Jason Sunkle. And tonight we are pleased to welcome to the podcast Coach Hernando Planells . Coach, welcome to the podcast.

Hernando Planells: [00:00:10] I’m excited guys. Thanks so much for having me on. I’ve been looking forward to this cause I think, you know, we scheduled this.

A little while back and I think I was joking with you the other day. I was trying to figure out, I’m like, I know I’m doing a podcast with these guys. What day is this? Good. This is coming up soon and we got up soon and here we are, where we got ready to go.

Mike Klinzing: [00:00:27]. Well, you’re welcome. We’re excited to have you on and dig into all of the different things that you’ve been able to do in the game. You’ve had some very, very unique experiences in the game of basketball, and we want to be able to touch on those and give people an idea of all the things that you’ve done throughout your career and hopefully give some coaches out there some things that can help to make them a better coach.

Want to go back in time to when you were a kid. And just tell us a little bit about how you got into the game of basketball, your first introduction to it. What made you fall in love with the game?

Hernando Planells: [00:00:57] You know, so I don’t have like this storied [00:01:00] basketball program, right? I think my, when my, when I was born, my dad who’s from Spain was 50 years old and my mom is this short Filipino lady.

So basketball wasn’t like the main thing. Piano was, math and probably reading was the number one thing, but I got into like in seventh and eighth grade, I thought. I was pretty decent.  and then, you know, played a little in high school, play a little in college, and you know, I used to say all the time that I was like really good.

Now that I’m like in my forties, I look back, I’m like, you know, I really sucked actually. It really did suck. And so that’s sort of how I came across it all. And then I just loved coaching. Well, actually I love telling people what to do. So that’s how I got into coaching. And obviously it’s so much more than that and I’ve had a pretty decent career.

Mike Klinzing: [00:01:51] What was it about coaching that made you decide to go that direction as you started finishing up and wrapping up your playing career, what was it that [00:02:00] attracted you to coaching? Was it just being able to tell people what to do initially and then it morphed into something more than that, or was there something more right from the start?

Hernando Planells: [00:02:09] Yeah, it really was. You know, I got yelled at a lot as a player, you know, I was probably writing the wrong lines. I threw a lot of turnovers, you know, so it’s like, it just one of those things where I was like, you know, I think it would be really great if I was a coach. You know? I think, you know, at that age, you always say to yourself, you know what?

I could do better than what they’re doing. Like he’d even tell me.  how to get by someone or, or whatever drills we were doing back in those days. And, and I, I really, as I was finishing and, and you know, finishing it to just to list till all of our listeners again, it wasn’t like this stored career was really a lot of time on the bench and waving a towel.

And I just, I really, and I actually didn’t finish my college degree until I was 35 years old. So I finished like around probably,  you would think like your sophomore year in college. I was, I was in junior college and. I really just thought coaching would be fun and telling people what to do would be fun.

[00:03:00] And so I never really drew on mat napkins or do plays. I was not into that at all. I just want to go in that direction. And you know, over time, you know, you start coaching,  eighth graders and then. Then I’m coaching high school. I was a varsity head coach in Arizona at 21 years old thinking that I knew everything and I didn’t know anything because we want one 18 or one and 19 and you start seeing that it’s more than just plays.

It’s more than just rolling out the ball and having practice. It’s, there’s so much more deeper. There’s a connection. That you have to try and make with your players, your staff, administration and everything. And I definitely took the long road to learn that.

Mike Klinzing: [00:03:43] Do you think that that I can relate to that story because I often say that when I was a young coach and I was coming off of my playing career and I just thought, well, I was a good player. I knew everything there was to know about coaching. And I look back now. And I say, well, really the [00:04:00] only coaching that I really knew was my high school coach who I had the same high school coach for the entire time that I was playing in high school. And then my college coach, who I had the same coach for four years.

Basically everything that I did as a young coach or just the things that I had done as a player, and I didn’t go out and at that time, didn’t go to clinics, didn’t really read many coaching books, and of course it wasn’t. The ability to learn wasn’t quite as easy as it is today. Today. There’s even less excuses than there was for me back when I started.

But nonetheless, I just look at myself as a young coach, and I think, gosh, those kids that had me that first year, I was terrible. I mean, I really was.

Hernando Planells: [00:04:44] You know it, you know, it takes some time, right, to, to gauge where you are as a coach. I think when you get into coaching, everyone always talks about what’s your philosophy?

How do you want to play, how do you want to treat your players and why you think you know all of that. Until [00:05:00] you realize that not everyone is the same. They all come from different backgrounds.  you know, on top of that, you know, there’s parents involved and then, you know, you have other staff members and other players and you know, you have JV who wants to move to varsity.

I mean, there’s so many different things that you don’t really think about as a young coach unless you really become intentional at learning it. And I’m the same thing like you, Michael, like you, I had a coaching background because of the people who coached me. But it wasn’t anything I, I really paid attention to.

You know, I paid attention to more how they were yelling on the sideline or how they discipline. I didn’t see all the other things. So it was only when I was in it where I was like, wow, this is a lot. And there were times where I was like, well, I don’t really know if I want to do this.  but as you get deeper and deeper and you see the impact you’re making, it’s.

It’s like you just can’t get away from it.

Mike Klinzing: [00:05:53] Yeah, I agree. What were some of the things that surprised you when you went from the playing side to the coaching side? Like what was [00:06:00] something that you said, man, I had no idea that coaches had to do this, or I had no idea they spend so much time doing that?

What were some of the things that were most surprising to you back when you first started?

Hernando Planells: [00:06:13] Probably the stress level, right? I think that as a player you play and you know whether you play good or bad, you know, you get to go home, get to go home with your family, eat dinner, and go to bed and have practice the next day.

But as a coach. You’re talking about, you get home and you have video. And of course at that time it’s VHS. I mean, some are, this is, don’t even know what a VHS tape is, you know, that’s a whole different process. So they got to cut that up and then they’re showing it and they don’t, you know, you don’t sleep at night and you know, then you wake up in the morning and then you have, you know.

I guess by that time, that email, I don’t know what they had, but you know that you get all these messages about like, Oh, my son didn’t play or this or that. And I think it’s really that. It’s, it’s, you don’t look at all the [00:07:00] other things because coaching is so much more as we know, we’re gonna keep on talking about it.

Right? The game is such a small part. It’s all the paperwork. It’s all the, the talking and the communication connecting that you’re trying to do. So that really was, I was like, Oh man, I had no idea. This was so in depth.

Mike Klinzing: [00:07:19] So let me ask you this. As you mentioned, the stress level as being something that was surprising to you, and I understand completely what you’re getting at.

So let me ask you this question. When you are coaching, you’re obviously wrapped up in it. You feel that desire to win, you feel all those things that go around it, but you’re also a parent. So when you watch your kids play, whether it’s basketball or some other sport. How does your psyche react differently to when you’re coaching a team versus when you’re watching your own kids play?

I’m just curious what the comparison looks like in your mind.

Hernando Planells: [00:07:59] So [00:08:00] I’m, I’ve always been really quiet.  when my kids play during the games, it’s always, I was definitely one of those parents that, you know, when they get in the car, I’m reaming them. You know, I always, always say, I was like, boy, I did not.

Raise my kids. Great. In that way, it’s, you know, it was always, you know, like all parents, it comes from a great place. It’s just how we say it is just really, really not great. And it took me a long time to get there. I mean, you know, I’d be. I’d sit there and he’d take a bad shot, or, you know, he, and he played, my son, Preston is 19 years old now.

My daughter is 16 and they played all the different sports and I could only imagine,  the disappointment. Look, I looked, I looked at it when I looked at him in every sport that he played, you know, like, it was just one of those things and it was only later on in life. And he’s, he’s a college swimmer now.

 where, you know, you have to learn how to like, celebrate all these things and really get to a point where like, you know what, I [00:09:00] just love watching him play. Or I just love watching his swim. And it did take some time and I actually carried that over on the coaching side, right? Because I think there’s some times we have a tendency.

To over-talk and over coach. So learning when is the best time to approach. Knowing, knowing the best time to speak with them,  with your players or your own son or daughter is so important and doesn’t get spoken to about right. Timing is so important. I know coaches. You know, we just say, well, we’re always teaching.

You know, it’s, it’s my job to always be in their ear and talk to them all the time. Yeah. But, but after a while, they’re not listening to you right now a days you get 11 seconds of their undivided attention. So. If that’s the change, then why aren’t we changing as coaches? Why aren’t we changing as parents?

 so those are just things that I’ve always kind of thought about over time. And, and I’ve always said, I’ve always told my son Preston, I said, Hey, you know, I [00:10:00] was, you’re probably a really good sermon because I just reamed your butt every day. But then I also feel really bad that I did that.

Mike Klinzing: [00:10:08] Yeah. It’s such a fine line to walk.

I’ve debated that in my own head in terms of. How to go about pushing, not pushing, challenging, not challenging all my kids and all the different activities that they do. And what I always find is I’ve kind of eared on maybe the opposite side of what you did. I’ve kind of been the guy that sort of backs off.

I provide. Those opportunities. But I just kind of let it go and I don’t know always if that’s the right thing to do. I think it is, I think it’s the right thing long-term for the relationship with my kids. And I think it’s the right thing for them from a sports standpoint.Cause I’m hoping that the light goes on for them by themselves without me having to push it. But it takes a whole lot of effort. Discipline. For [00:11:00] me not to do some of that pushing and do some of the things that I’ve seen other people do and that you described that you did, and  I would love to be able to run a simultaneous experiment and go down one path and go down the other path and at the same time be able to see what the results would be both on and off the court.

Obviously we don’t get an opportunity to do that as parents, but I think it would be a very interesting sociological experiment to see. W as you approached it in both of those different ways, just how those outcomes may or may not have changed. And that’s just something that as a parent, I often think about because I think all of us as we know as parents, you’re flying by the seat of your pants, no matter what you do. Cause nobody knows. Nobody knows. None of us know. None of us know what we’re doing for sure as a parent. And even if you make what you think is a good decision, you know, there’s lots of possible outcomes that could come in there. So I always find sports parenting  to be a very interesting topic and just hearing how different people handle those situations.

Hernando Planells: [00:11:54] Right. I, you know, and I love that you said that because I have. [00:12:00] Had different conversations with different coaches and said, I think a great experiment would be you take, and it’s not a knock on any of these different coaching styles, but take every player that Bobby Knight has had and see where their life led, where they, you know, they’re successful businessmen, were they entrepreneurs?

How were they in families? And then take, let’s just say John wooden, for example, and take all his players. And see how, how they progressed in their life. And you know, the comparison really is because you could debate that they’re two different coaching styles.  and then you get to kind of see, you know, what.

Did work. What didn’t work, right? Like there’s so many, I think things that you could pull from just that, you know, obviously all of them are going to say, you know, the general was a great coach and, and wooden was great coach. And there’s no denying that. It’s just how was that impact in your life and how has it impacted on your path in your life?

Was the, you know, cause I always tell,  a bunch of different [00:13:00] people. I said, you know, I got on my kids a lot. So as they got an older, they react to trigger words or, or things that, how I react even though I’m not, you know, I’m a different person, but they still carry that with them. And how does that affect their life moving forward?

 so those are things, I mean, we could talk about this for hours with that because the psychology of that is, is absolutely interesting.

Mike Klinzing: [00:13:24] Yeah. I think the other part that comes to mind as you’re talking there is not all of you have what the different outcomes would be based on. The players and what the coaching style was.

But you also have the, the mental makeup of the players who played for each of those coaches. And so you look at and you say, okay, when the kid was 17 or 18 years old, did they, or how much did they know about the style of Bobby Knight versus the style of John wooden? And how much did they think about how they were going to react in those moments when they were being coached in those two different styles?

And then you wonder, so if you take. [00:14:00] Isaiah Thomas, and he doesn’t play for Bobby Knight, but instead he plays for John wooden. And if you take Kareem Abdul Jabbar, he doesn’t play for John wooden and steady flays per Bob Knight. You wonder, how do those two players, what transpires in their career, how does it change if it changes it at all?

Hernando Planells: [00:14:16] That would be really interesting too. I think. Yes. I didn’t even think about it from that angle. You’re absolutely right. What if there, you know, the players were roles reversed. They just change and see how it. Oh, now I’m going to have to write that in my notebook because I think that is really, really good.

Mike Klinzing: [00:14:32] Yeah, it would be interesting. I mean, I think, you know, again, today, you know, today kids I think have a really good understanding and idea of, or at least they should be able to have the type of coaching style of a coach that’s recruiting that at least on the college level. In high school, you often don’t have putting out who you are and where you live and what your opportunities are.

You don’t always have the, you know, the chance to choose the coach that you’re going to play for the style of coach that you’re going to play for, but it’s just interesting when you start thinking about [00:15:00] the recruiting process, which I know you were involved in a lot when you were at Duke, and we can talk a little bit about that, but let’s go backwards to when you were coaching in high school and you were both a head high school coach and you were also an assistant.

So talk a little bit about the difference between at the high school level, the difference between being an assistant, being a head coach, and what you’ve learned in both of those two positions that helped you as you moved on in your career.

Hernando Planells: [00:15:23] Well, I think as an assistant I, it was my first real experience on how to serve a head coach And the rest of the staff and, and the players.  you know, I, again, I always thought that coaching is, you’re just telling people what to do.  the other part, it gave me a huge lesson on how to work when you’re not playing. Meaning, you know, when you’re on the court, when you work together, you pass the ball, you show some great teamwork, you drive, kick out, et cetera.

But on a staff there that, that doesn’t exist, right? It’s actually. [00:16:00] Listening to what the other coaches say, listening to what your head coach say, and hopefully say something, you know, decent enough where everyone doesn’t laugh at you. Right? So those are things that you end up like learning as an assistant, but then also, you know.

You get to learn things like how many basketballs fit in a ball bag.  how many basketballs could fit in your trunk. You know, all those different things. You know, that you learn as an assistant that only helps you move in forward. And then as a head coach, you, you just take all those experiences and then you teach your assistant coaches that,  and then hopefully they catch on and you’re adding even just more, you know, X’s and O’s and player development.

Because I have to. No. When I look back at me being an assistant coach in high school, I, I probably wasn’t very good and probably wasn’t very good just because I didn’t know what to do. Well, you’re just learning on the fly. And again, I think at that age you’re thinking that it’s about, you know, which pivot foot am I going to [00:17:00] teach?

You know, what type of jab step, you know, how does this shot look like? It’s those things that are important, but it’s all the other things that. You end up learning and you’re dreading in many ways that you have to do it, but then you learn any love it and then you carry it on as a head coach and you teach it to different people and hopefully people catch on and hopefully you win a few games, which when I was a head coach, I didn’t win a lot of games at all as a high school coach.

Mike Klinzing: [00:17:24] When you took over a program for the first time, what was that like? What do you remember about it? What was different from what you had done before as an assistant. Just try to go back in time to what you thought was important. Going into getting that first opportunity at the varsity level.

Hernando Planells: [00:17:42] You know, I was extremely excited because automatically. You start thinking about all the amazing things your team is going to run and you start thinking about all, we’re going to be out on the track running and we’re going to have 15 guys and 30 guys so that [00:18:00] we have JV. We’re all gonna be running at the same thing, and we’re, it’s going to be this great harmony.

You know, all these things that you, you want to think positive, which, which you should. And then, you know, and, and then I’d go online and at those days the internet was really, really slow. You know, you had the dial up internet and I would print out plays or I had about four binders of plays, thinking this is what we’re going to run.

And realizing that. That was way too many plays for me to remember, and way too many players plays for my players to remember any of it.  so those were some of the things that I was like, wow. I, I,  not that I’m, I would sit there and say I’m super prepared, but I wasn’t, I wasn’t paying attention to what the players needed.

 and I. I totally forgot that they were high school students on top of that as well too. Just thought like, yeah, we’re just gonna play basketball. And you know, it’s all, it’s, it’s so many different things that, you know, I love these questions because it makes me think [00:19:00] and realize that no one should have hired me at that age to be a head coach of anything at that time.

 and so, you know, I was excited. I was pumped up, ready to go, and then I realized that, you know, the teaching part was something that I was really, really lacking.  and it showed for my players. It showed how I discipline them. It showed how, you know, my behavior on, on the floor. I was a yeller screamer in my twenties.

 you know, thinking that’s the way to do it. And I was just literally doing it all wrong. So how did you grow from that?

Mike Klinzing: [00:19:33] So you come to a realization, you have to have a little bit of self awareness at some point that, Hey, this isn’t. The way that I want it to be going. It’s not, I’m not doing it as well as I’d like to.

So then what sort of triggers you, or how do you go about improving? What methods did you use? Where did you go? Did you seek out mentors? Did you go to books? Was it clinics? Just what was your process for improving?

Hernando Planells: [00:19:57] Yeah, so [00:20:00] I,  I would go to clinics. Nike had a huge clinic every year in Las Vegas. I would go for two or three years.

 I would talk to other high school coaches and I was coaching,  within a travel team organization called the Los Angeles rockfish, who at the time had, we had tremendous players and, and really good mentors there,  with it. So I, I, I learned from that, but a lot of learning too, was being away from the game.

 I, you know, I, I was not a teacher at the school, so I had to work other jobs, so I know sold insurance. I. Ran copies at a law office.  you know, all these different jobs where you learn the soft skills, you, you learn the people skills. And really it’s about people. And then after I was coaching high school, I ended up, I got married really young.

 and my son was born and, and I started getting into,  working on, on a kind of film production. So my very first one, I was a coach, actually on a. [00:21:00] TV sport you may remember called slam ball. So it was full contact, basketball, trampolines, and  you know, now’s my first jump into professional quote, unquote professional athletes where it is entirely different.

 atmosphere. You’re no longer.  yelling and screaming. You’re demanding.  but you’re no longer yelling and screaming because you’re talking to grown men.  and those are things, I had a couple of run ins with a couple of players and I don’t back down very much, or I didn’t at the time. Now. I don’t get involved with any skirmishes, but back then I would, you know, I’m, and I’m going toe to toe and I say toe to toe, I’m, I’m every bit of five, 10 and a half, and they’re like six foot five.

So I’m like staring right at their belly and you know, and those are things that you learn, like you, you, you just can’t do. And then on top of that, when you, you, you coach professional athletes. And by then I started helping at a junior college. And then at the same time too,  I started doing sports choreography on [00:22:00] film, where now my very first movie was coach Carter, where I have to choreograph the basketball scenes and I’m working with a few people.

So just like, yeah, like a coaching staff. You now have a tremendous amount of athletes coming in who are all real college and, and players who had ran out of eligibility, and now you have nine teams. You’re in charge of. And now all of a sudden your organization, your communication, your connection that you’ve been working on or trying to work on over the last few years starts coming together.

And so I really credit being, having experience outside of coaching a team. Helped propel me to really taking a look at how I lead, how I communicate, and how I connect with everybody. Because at the end of the day, like coaching, like when you coach a team, this is your team. Like this is in many ways no one’s saying anything.

This is a dictatorship. This is the land of Hernando. But when you get out of it and your now [00:23:00] exposed to different things where that’s not the real world that you have to get out of your bubble, then that’s when you start learning and being a sponge. And then from there, I coach in a couple of different minor,  professional, minor league teams.

I coached, finished coaching at junior college. I went overseas and you start just progressing. And I’m a big, big believer in taking a look at every single day of what happened. I may not write notes every day of what happened, but I will. Sit down and I’ll think about what did I do fairly well today and what did I do really bad today?

And I carry with me at times. I’ve learned not to do it anymore, but those are things that were always sparking change within me.

Mike Klinzing: [00:23:38] Alright, so I want to go back to the beginning of what you talked about and getting involved with slam ball and transitioning from high school coaching to college coaching and see if there’s some lessons here that some other coaches can take from your experience. How do those opportunities go from you being a high school coach, kind of working odd jobs on the side to I go and I’m coaching [00:24:00] college, I go on and get this opportunity with slam ball. And then I know you’re kind of downplaying some of the movie things that you did because some of the people that you’ve had a chance to work with, obviously your famous names and some of the movies that you’ve been able to be a part of are movies that lots of people are going to be familiar with.

So just talk a little bit about how those opportunities. Came into your life and just give us an idea of what you did or how those things transpired.

Hernando Planells: [00:24:21] Yeah, I,  you know what, I, I honestly just showed up, like, so I’ll, I’ll, I’ll give you an example. So I guess I got to go even further. So a lot of,  my motivation,  inspiration comes from my kids.

So I had kids young. And I really sat there and had a choice. I, I had said, okay, I could either go ahead and take the traditional,  safe route, which my parents kept on telling me that I got to get a job. I got to get a house, all, all these things,  or I’m going to go ahead and [00:25:00] just try out so many ridiculous things so that when my kids are older, they will understand that.

They too can do some crazy things as long as they see an example of it. And I just kind of looked at it from that way. That’s the way I was kind of raised with, with my mom and dad. So with that, I had,  I was actually a student manager at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas for a year because of my AAU connections.

 Bill Bayno was a head coach. He got let go of that in December, which meant,  the person who I knew who I was closest with.  was no longer there. So I ended up coming back to LA with my son, who was a year old, and, and my, my wife at the time, and I responded to an ad for this sports.  basketball trampoline.

So I go to the, basically the audition, the tryout.  so I would do that. And, and you know, when you go in there, you have to, you know, you have to have full of energy. You have to be so enthusiastic where they’re like, yeah, that guy would be great. You know, because I [00:26:00] don’t, I don’t,  pass the eye test, right?

I’m, I’m not tall. I’m short. I don’t look like a basketball coach ever. So you have to do things. I’ve always had to do things to kind of just kind of. Be seen for, you know, for lack of better words. So I would literally just show up and I eventually became one of the coaches on slam ball, which then opened the door to, to work on a movie, get a phone call, and says, Hey, you know, we’re, we’re doing a movie.

Actually, they were going to do a basketball movie with Ice Cube. So I went and I did the tryouts with a guy named Mark Ellis, who’s done a bunch of different football movies. He did the program any given Sunday, et cetera, and he needed a basketball guy. So. I go, do we do this? The tryout, we had like 80 kids for this kid’s ice cube movie.

He calls me the next day, said, Hey, that was great, but they’re not going to do the movie. He calls me two weeks later, Hey. Okay. We’re back on. We’re doing now coach Carter. So you ended up doing, then I’ll, you know, I go from working, and this is how it works. [00:27:00] I went from working slam ball to selling a mortgage loans for Conseco finance, which Seiko finance are notoriously known for selling high interest loans.

So I was horrible at that because I was at the time, think about this, like they were 9% homes. Or, I dunno what nine to 12% is what people were selling. And so I do that. And like all of a sudden I get a phone call to work on a movie and then I have to choose like, am I going to leave? And you know, whatever I was doing and my ex wife wasn’t happy about that.

Am I going to take a gig for four or five months? So I took the gig for four or five months and then from there you end up meeting different people. Obviously, you know when that movie was Samuel Jackson and Channing Tat and it was just a tremendous experience. Just being a part of it. But I did that for six months, and then you’re unemployed again.

Then you collect unemployment, which as we know, isn’t a whole lot, and then a cup, you know, movies came there, you know, then rebound with Martin Lawrence and I did, you know, a semi-pro with will Farrel [00:28:00] and, but again, these are jobs that go for two months, three months, one month, a week, and then, and then you’re unemployed again.

So. You know, you do it. And I actually, I’m sorry, I totally forgot what the question you asked now that I’m on a roll here, but

Mike Klinzing: [00:28:14]It’s all so glamorous, what you’re saying.

Hernando Planells: [00:28:16] Well, no, it’s totally, you know, so, so it’s, you know, when you’re doing all that, you, you, you really, and this goes back, I think to my point, it’s just showing up.

Like I met Bill Bayno because I showed up at a gym and. He was rebounding for something. He was doing a workout and I just rebounded for him.  when I got the job in the NBA G league, it’s the same thing. I just show up to all the tryouts. If I wanted to get a job, I just, you know, people don’t show up.

It’s the same thing. Like at, I don’t know if you guys ever came across this, but you know, you get home on a Friday night, your friends call you like, Hey man, let’s go out. Like I’m tired. I don’t want to go, you know, and then they finally talk you into it and then you go and you end up having the best time of your life.

Well, we do a great job of talking ourselves out of [00:29:00] stuff, but we never talk ourselves into stuff. So the more I talked myself into going somewhere and meeting someone and make me maybe making connection, then all of a sudden you just start showing up and they’re like, wait, who’s this Hernandez guy?

Cause they could never get my name right. They always call me Hernandez. I was this Hernandez guy. Oh, we’ll just hire you. And. And it just sort of worked that way. I’ve never been anybody’s first or second choice. I’ve always been just the person that, Hey, he’s there. He seems dependable. Let’s go.

Mike Klinzing: [00:29:31] That’s hilarious. And I think that it speaks a lot to what you talk about showing up and people just don’t realize how important of a skill that is. I know that’s a conversation that I have with my wife a lot as it relates to our kids and just certain things that you try to teach them in terms of showing up in terms of being polite, in terms of writing thank you notes, and we always say to them, [00:30:00] it’s not really that hard to stand out.

You don’t have to be the most super talented person. You don’t have to be perfect. A lot of times if you just show up and do things that. You were, I might expect sometimes just that’s enough to make you stand out. And I think your story speaks to that. And you think about for young coaches out there, if we want to pull a lesson out of that, it’s put yourself in places where there are people that need help, that need the things that you can bring.  They need a rebounder. They just need a guy who is going to be there. And if you can fulfill that role. Sometimes you don’t have to be great when you start out. You get in there and you learn and you work hard and you do the things you’re supposed to do, and then as you said, you meet this person who meets that person, and then before you know it, you get introduced to that guy and now you have these other opportunities.

I think there’s a great, great lesson there. What exactly for people who like me, who don’t necessarily understand exactly [00:31:00] what doing the basketball choreography looks like on a film. Talk to us about what your day to day was. On a film. So if you’re doing the movie coach Carter and there’s a basketball scene, what is your role in making that come to life on the screen.

Hernando Planells: [00:31:15] Well,  it’s, it’s trying to make it look as real as possible in a Hollywood film, right? So there’s, there’s that great combination of, wow, that would never happen to, Oh yes, it could possibly happen. And that was a tremendous play. So it really starts from, even from the casting part. So, you know, usually you get a script and it’ll say something like, Hernando takes a three pointer, so you gotta take that one line.

Read the script to see where Hernando was mentally or what situation is going on the scene before, and will it affect him,  in the actual scene for, for the actor. So you’re training the actors on player development and so they can sharpen their skills, which by the way, they [00:32:00] usually are not very good.

No district, anybody I work with, they’re just not there in terms of like. The, the, the position that, that the script is putting them in. You know, a lot of times they’re supposed to be an all star and we’re like, all right, we, let’s just get to an all level. Let’s get to the all level and we’ll be fine. So it’s that, and then, you know, there are other teams that.

The hero team, which is the main team have to play against. So now you have to do casting calls for that as well too. So you have to find players who have to fit what the other team is supposed to look like. So this comes from, all right, well, how many black players do we have to have? How many white players we have to have?

Who was the coach?  and then. Then you have to go ahead and diagram the plays. Usually there are about nine to 10 plays in a basketball scene for coach Carter. So you have to choreograph all of that, which takes some time because you’re telling real basketball players [00:33:00] not to be very good. And the the guys on the actors on the hero team usually aren’t as good as the real players.

So now you’re getting this weird. You know, synergy of bad players playing against really good players. And then in every movie, you know, the hero team is supposed to win the championship at the end. So they’ve got to get better. So you’re, it’s like this whole player development slash  script writing slash telling them, Hey, you know, this could work,  this is real.

This is not real.  all, all of those things. Even to the point of now you have to tell the coaches, you know, what are some things that you would say as a coach? Or how would practice look like? How many water bottles? Where would the basketballs be? Everything that you try and, and, and be a part of an induced.

So those are. Those are just similar, some small things that you would kind of think about like every single day when you’re, you’re going through it. What

Mike Klinzing: [00:33:56] What percentage of the actors you worked with, like the [00:34:00] process of player development and getting better versus what percentage of them detested it and really could care less about improving as a basketball player, even though they were in a quote basketball movie?

Hernando Planells: [00:34:11] You know, they all loved it.  They just get stretched so thin. Because of, of their schedules. So we had one player,  we had in coach Carter, he played the character of Timo Cruz. And I always forget. His real name. But he was also in the rookie Puerto Rican guy, a great actor, great actor, but not a basketball player. And he’ll be the first one to tell you, but he, he had a scene where he had hit a corner three-pointer and I was like, this is going to be woo.

All right, here we go. And you know, the play was like, the ball is tip pass pass. He just supposed to get in the corner, catch it and shoot the ball. Well, you know, we do workouts. We, we’d shoot, you know, based on his time, we probably got up. Maybe a hundred, 120 threes every workout session, just because usually you have them for about, you know, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, and they, then they got to go back on set or [00:35:00] they’ve got to go,  to get fitted for their clothes or whatever else it is.

 so he would go ahead and take the shots and he was missing. But see, actors have an amazing way to get into that character. So on the day of the shoot, he goes. And I’m like, all right, man, are you ready? He goes, I’ll coach. I’m ready to go. I’m the best shooter in the world. I’m like, all right, well, I hope so.

 and you know, so director yells, action pass, pass, pass. He shoots the three brick. I’m like, Oh, this is going to be a long day. Come on, you know? Then in between takes, we, I get them to shoot more threes. Second time he comes out, pass, pass, pass shoots. It misses it again. Oh, and he looks at me, he says, coach, I’m good.

I got you. I’m like, all right, here we go. So third time tip, tip, tip, hit him in the corner. Boom, knocks it down. He proceeds to hit the shot five times in a row, and after two, I was like, why? Why are we keep doing this? We already got the shots, let’s move on.  but you know, but he, but he wanted to do it [00:36:00] and he was great.

Jason Sunkle: [00:36:01] So Rick Gonzales, I’m here. I promise. I know him more important. I mean from my perspective, because I’m a huge comic book fan. He’s an arrow. He played a character in arrow, so I am, that’s the only, the only reason I knew  the answer to that question. I didn’t even have the high MDB and I knew it.

Hernando Planells: Right. I am embarrassed that I forgot the name.

Mike Klinzing: [00:36:27] I just worked by Jason right there. That’s why we pay him the big money on the podcast to come up with those obscure references.

Hernando Planells: [00:36:34] I have to, I do have to backtrack. You were saying something we were talking about,  you know, reaching out to people or, or just showing up. You know, one of the things that I would do is I, I’ve probably have sent tens of thousands of emails,  so people all over the world.

I used to go on the feeble website. Download the FIBA guide and just email different teams. I would go ahead and call NBA teams at nights because at the time they [00:37:00] had dial by name directories, so you could go ahead and reach, you know, leave messages for Pat Riley or Lon Kruger when he was with the Atlanta Hawks or Jeff van Gundy when he was with the rockets at that time.

You know, obviously times have changed and you could go email and text people or DM them on on Twitter, but you know, it’s doing those things. That,  helps coaches, you know, move on in their careers. Easy. People reach out to people cause they want to get an answer. They want to get a response. But if you reach out to people just to reach out and learn the craft of what works and what doesn’t work.

Then as you progress, then you’re able to really meet other people and then move in your career because you already have the experience in selling yourself, talking about what you can do and the value you can bring. So, sorry, I had to go back to that because it was something else I wanted to add on earlier.

Mike Klinzing: [00:37:53] Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. I think that when you think about just the fact that you were willing [00:38:00] to make those calls and put yourself out there. And people then just start to become aware of you. And one of the things that’s sort of been a theme on our show with a lot of coaches is coaches will say, well, they have coaches that are young coaches just coming up, or maybe they’re a coach who has been a really successful high school coach, or they’ve gotten to the college level.

They’ve achieved this, and they’ll have other coaches come up to them and say, Hey, how do I get to where you are? I want to be able to do the things. That you’re doing. Maybe that’s with the NBA, maybe that’s with USA basketball, maybe that’s at the college level. How do I get there? And one of the things that coaches consistently say to us is the advice that they pass out to young coaches who come to them with that question is, you have to be great where you are right now.

And that might be with eighth grade girls, that might be with a high school varsity team. That might be you’re a coach at a college camp during the summertime. And if you put in the [00:39:00] work and you put in the effort and you do the things that you’re supposed to do in that job, and you focus on being the best you can, then that’s when other opportunities come.

That’s when somebody notices the job that you’re doing. That’s when those chances to move on and maybe have another experience come to you. But if you’re always looking out the door, if you always have one eye on the next thing that you want to be doing, and you’re not putting a hundred percent into where you are right in the moment.

That a lot of those opportunities that you’re looking for never actually come because you’re too focused on the next thing instead of on what you’re doing. I think that’s a good lesson for players to, especially in today’s basketball world, I see so many players at the youth and high school level that are, they don’t enjoy the moment of where they’re at, whether they’re an eighth grade basketball player or they’re a varsity basketball player, they’re always looking at what’s the next thing coming down.

I think there’s something to be said for. Do the best with right where you’re at, and then those other opportunities will present themselves if you found that to be the case in your career.

Hernando Planells: [00:39:58] Yeah, absolutely. [00:40:00] I think that, you know, everything you’re saying from showing up, being there,  really is part of the journey, right?

It’s really part of the process of taking it one step at a time. You know, I think what happens, especially in today’s day and age because of social media, you see so many people. Moving up in their career or supposedly moving up in their career, right. And then we automatically compare ourselves and say, well, you know, we’re just not good enough.

Or then we just all of a sudden have like this ill will toward this other person. And, and that’s just not the way it goes. Like we have. The control of our own lives. Like I hear when the past, I’ve heard like, well, that person got the job because there’s so and so, or they know so and so. You know, the more we make those comments or excuses, the, the less we’re going to have success in our own lives.

 you said something about like players as well [00:41:00] too. Like. You know, a lot of players,  you know, when they finish college, they always just wait for their opportunity to play overseas, right. And they’ll, they’ll sit there and wait. And a lot of coaches do that as well too. They will sit and just wait, or they’ll work at camp or they’ll do something.

But the only goal so much, right. But they won’t do the extra to go ahead and get to where they want to go. But I would tell players all the time, if you see a beautiful girl across the way. You’ll do almost anything to say, hello. Now you may be nervous, you may be whatever, but you’re going to do whatever you can to stop and say hello.

But, but so many of us don’t even do that in our own career, much less in our own lives. So once we take those concepts and say, listen, we already know how to do. We don’t know how to network. We are not a bit of relationships. We’ve been doing it for years and now we just got to apply it. Then all of a sudden.

Things start moving in a direction,  and you start making intentional [00:42:00] relationships because you’re not trying to get something from them. You’re actually trying to get to know them.  which is another important piece of this puzzle because I’m a firm believer in that. You have to get to know a lot of people cause they will be the ones that opened the door for you.

I know a lot of them, smart, amazing, much smarter than me. Mentors and coaches have said, you know, you’ve got to have like your three or four people who will open the door for you, your gatekeepers, which I totally understand. But when I look at it, I will say this, the more people I talk to you, the more I said, Hey, you know Hernando, I just spoke with Hernandez.

He’s a pretty good guy, but.  I don’t know him well, but maybe you should talk to him about your open position. And I only can say that because that’s has been, I’ve seen that in, in my life.  and I’ve even suggested people for jobs. I may not know them very well, but I said, it’s worth your conversation, which is how you get in the door.

Mike Klinzing: [00:42:52] That’s so true that by putting yourself out there and connecting with people on a genuine level where [00:43:00] you’re not looking to get something from them instead. You’re just looking to build a genuine relationship. You’re really trying  to get to know somebody who is interesting. Somebody who’s ambitious, somebody who’s smart.

I see this all the time. I have a friend who puts together these workshops through a company that he formed called Authenica, and it just brings together people from all different walks of life, all different careers, all different businesses, and these events are themed around excellence. And. When I go to these events, I spend a day or two with all these people that have nothing to do with anything that I do, there aren’t basketball people there. There aren’t people that are in education the way that I am, and yet I come away from those things energized and recharged because I’m around people that in their field, they’re intelligent, they’re curious, they’re ambitious, and when you get an opportunity to talk about, talk to those people.

It’s not about, [00:44:00] well, I’m networking with this person because they might be able to connect me to this person, or they might be able to get me this job or get me this opportunity. It’s just this exchange of ideas behind between people who are like minded in that they want to grow, they want to get better, they want to interact with people, and I think when you do that, that’s, that’s how opportunities come your way because as you said, then somebody is like, Oh, I remember that I had this conversation with Mike or with Hernando or with Jason and.

That person was impressive to me, and yeah, I don’t know him very well. I might’ve only had a 20 minute conversation with them, but just based off of that, it’s worth, as you said, it’s worth having a conversation. Right?

Hernando Planells: [00:44:39] No, absolutely. And I think the more we continue to be curious, curious about other people and how their journey and what I could learn from them, then relationships become real.

You know? I think. That, you know, listening, actively listening,  to the other [00:45:00] person, waiting for them to finish what they’re saying and then repeating what they’re saying makes people know that you are listening, that you are in it with them. And I think sometimes we forget it. And I, and I get it because I, there’s many times I’ve forgotten as well too, but the deeper we get into, you know, relationships that deeper we get to learn about the other person.

Then all of a sudden you are leaving an impact with them. And that’s what you have to do. Even when I was recruiting, I’ve always said this all the time. I had college coaches would call from time to time. Like how well, you know when you’re recruiting, you guys did a good job. What was like your number one thing?

And I said, every time he got on the phone with me, it is an experience. Plain and simple, you know? So that’s the same thing you’ve got to have when you meet someone, give them an experience. Maybe you’re an introvert. Well. You know, you got to figure out something where you can go in and stand out and that, that’s the game of life though.

It’s like, what can I do to stand out? It’s the same thing we do with our, with [00:46:00] our programs and our team. What can we do on our team to stand out as an offensive player so that we can beat this other team? So we’ve got to do that ourselves as we try and progress in coaching.

Mike Klinzing: [00:46:09] I think that speaks to your mentality, whether that’s as a coach, whether that’s at a, as a player, whether that’s just as a human being out in your career.

I think you’re a hundred percent right, that you have to have the mentality of, you have to be your own cell, you have to be your own salesman, and nobody’s going to be a better salesman for you than yourself, and depending upon your personality. For some people that’s easy. For other people, that’s more difficult.

I know for me personally, I find that sometimes to be more difficult, and so I have to get out of my comfort zone in order to be a salesman for myself and the things that I’m trying to accomplish. But it’s something that if you have the self-awareness to realize, then you can start to figure out what you said, where, Hey, you’re going to give people an experience.

And that’s one of the things that I’ve learned, especially with the podcast, is, [00:47:00] well, we have people on you try to make these conversations as genuine as you possibly can. And one of the things that I tell everybody, and I told you before we started, is I don’t like to have a preplanned set of 25 questions.

That I’m going to throw at every guest. And that might mean that I might occasionally miss something with somebody that might be interesting or that I overlooked. But I also think we ended up going in lots of different directions, and that’s what makes each one of the shows and each one of the interviews unique is that I tried to figure out a way to draw out the best of my guests.

And really for me, it’s about trying to figure out how can I showcase the things about our guests. That make them unique, that make them interesting, that are things that can be pulled out. That can be lessons for our audience of coaches. And do I always succeed? Am I perfect at it? No. Have I gotten better?

Well, you can go back and listen to our first couple of shows, as Jason can attest to, and I don’t think there’s any doubt that we’ve gotten better over the course of time. And I think that’s what you do. In [00:48:00] life. That’s what you’ve obviously done as a coach and in your career as we’ve looked at it.

Hernando Planells: [00:48:02] We’ve gotten better. As long as you don’t DoubleClick Mike.

Mike Klinzing: [00:48:05] That’s true. That’s true. That is true. That is very true. Is as long as they don’t click and stop the podcast before it starts. People. That’s no doubt about that. No question. So, all right, let me tell you, let me ask you about your stints in minor league basketball and just talk about, maybe give us a highlight or one of the funniest stories from when you were coaching, sort of in the minor leagues of American basketball.

Hernando Planells: [00:48:29] Yeah. You know, so, I mean, I coached in a league in Wyoming and,  that just stopped in the middle of nowhere. I had a job and then I didn’t have a job the next day.  and I never thought I’d be in Casper, Wyoming, and I was, and,  I love Casper, Wyoming. It’s one of those places where, you know, you go there, and I don’t know if I’ll ever go back, but it was a, the people were great.

The, the league was very short lived.  and, and that was over. And I remember.  I had to drive back from, and I was living in Los Angeles at the [00:49:00] time from Wyoming back to LA. And probably one of the best stories I had is it was a friend of mine, Mark bear cuff, who coaches at Randall university in Oklahoma.

And,  we were coaching the team in Wyoming and we had to go to salt Lake city, which is about, I think, like a seven hour drive. And I didn’t have a car at the time. I didn’t bring my car. So,  they gave us a car, they gave us like a 1979 Lincoln continental. Now nobody knows about a nice seminar. Lincoln continental, continental.

It is pure metal, pure metal. And there is a spot when you’re driving into salt Lake city where it is downhill for, I don’t know, maybe like eight miles. And. You know, there’s not a whole lot you can do when you have a 1979 car full, you know, pure metal and you are just screaming down the Hill into salt Lake city because you’re either going to burn the brakes or you’re just going to run right off the road.

So there’s, you [00:50:00] have no choice. So we Mark and I kind of burned the brakes and didn’t get run off the road, but we were a torpedo going right into salt Lake city. I said, these guys are going to know. That we’re here. I’m running into Utah, but that, that league was good. I coach another team in the ABA called the Hollywood fame, and they were owned by a couple, they call themselves celebrities, but Stacy Keebler, who’s, you know, a, a wrestler at the time, and Brady Anderson, who was, you know, he was a major league baseball player.

And I think, I’m trying to think who else was on Nicholas Leshay was involved with it a little bit at the time. John Sally was the head of the ABA and they were trying to overtake. The commissioner or something. It was, it was like a soap opera. And,  and on that team, actually, I had a Brian Russell who played for the jazz,  who’s in the touristy, known as getting pushed off at Michael Jordan on that last shot in the finals.

And then,  Jameson brewer who played with the Pacers for four years. So, and, and that we went through [00:51:00] most of the year. And then. You know, that team folded as well too. And, and so my minor league, since we’re grinding ahead of time with the Maine red claws, the bus, Celtics affiliate in the NBA at the time, the D league, and,  and it was there were,  were really got, as I wanted to coach in the NBA for such a long time.

I was tell people all the time, like, I, my coach has been interesting. I wanted to coach.   professional basketball. And I did, and I want to coach the NBA, but I did it. I made the NBA D league. I wanted to coach in Europe. Professionally. I did, and I coached in Asia on the professional side. And then I wanted to coach a high level men’s college basketball.

Well, I didn’t do that either. I ended up coaching college, women’s basketball at a high level. So, you know, I’ve always thought that if you go in your career, you keep moving forward, no matter what door is open, the doors will open as long as you continue to, to move forward. So I did that and, but you know, my time.

In the, in the D league was amazing. Actually. I just had a tweet exchange with Eric Musselman, who’s a men’s [00:52:00] coach at Arkansas, and his assistant,  Clay Moser, and they were the head coach of the Reno Big Horns, which was probably one of the best D-League teams ever. They had Jeremy Lynn, Marcus Landry, just a whole bunch of guys who ended up making the MBA.

And I was like, yeah, you guys beat our butts so bad. So. And they remembered, they remember beating us in Maine, so I was like, well, at least I’m remembered in some respects. That’s fine.

Mike Klinzing: [00:52:24] There you go. Eric grew up actually a town or two over from where? Jason. I live right now and I actually watched Eric play back when he was in high school, so he’s probably, I dunno, I’m 50 so Eric’s probably 56 maybe 57 somewhere in there.

I don’t know, but he’s great. Intense. Yeah, he’s very intense. He was very intense. He was kind of a, it was kind of a wild man, wild child as a, as a player back when he was in high school, and of course his dad was a long time. NBA coach and then actually I played on a men’s league team one time with them for one season, like in an outdoor men’s league, probably when I was,  I was maybe [00:53:00] 25 and he was 30 or 32, somewhere in there.

And,  so yeah, I mean, but grew up, you know, like I said, one town, one town over. So the basketball world is very small one, let’s put it that way, for sure. What was your experience like over in Japan? What was that like?

Hernando Planells: [00:53:15]  it was, it was great.  I was,  31, I think, no, 32 33 years old. It was a, the pro league is an expansion team.

Yeah.  it was,  it was one of the best experiences I was, we were horrible. We went 10 and 45, and,  And we just, you know, I got let go and, but you know, I still have a great relationship with the team. I went to go see them about two years ago, saw the GM and my former GM and my former assistant coaches, which were great.

But just being there culturally, just understanding, you know, one of the biggest lessons I learned was to knock, not talk so much. You know, you have a interpreter, you have three Americans, and the rest of the players are [00:54:00] Japanese. So you have an interpreter. That, you know, when you’re yelling, they’re not yelling.

 you know, as, so you can’t just go off on a tangent. You’ve got to give about three points and they’ll give the three points and then you have to move on from there. So, over-talking,  something that I had to stop doing,  while I was Japan, but it was, you know, I take a look at every single one of my experiences as amazing experiences, because those are things that you just never thought you’d ever do.

 and then you’re traveling all over Japan, losing a bunch of games.

Mike Klinzing: [00:54:33] There you go. And there was no stress in that, right?

Hernando Planells: [00:54:35] Oh, none whatsoever. None whatsoever. At the time, I had,  my family with me, so I was hoping that we would just win and we didn’t.  so they all, we all had to come, come back and that was hard in itself.  because you obviously don’t want to, you know, you, you move a family up there, then you got move them back and add a two year deal and, and had it come back and just had a.

Had to figure out a way [00:55:00] to make it work afterwards. How’d your kids like Japan? They loved it.  they, they were young. I think my son was maybe seven, seven or eight at the time and my daughter was five. So,  they kind of remember it,  and, and kind of don’t, but they, they,  I think they had a great time.

They still talk about it. I still talk about it to them with this day, cause it was a huge part,  of, of, of our lives.

Mike Klinzing: [00:55:25] How’d you get connected to Marty Blake?  I emailed him, so I,  emailed them and said, Hey, you know, I’m in LA, I’d love to just do a few a few games if you’re looking for anybody. And he said, he called me and he said, yeah, I’ll give you a few games.

So I would go to about two or three games that they would assign me, and then. But what that did is that then I could ask them any time for a pass to go to any college game. So I just ended up going to a bunch of college games.  I wrote scattered reports, [00:56:00]  for them, even for the games they weren’t asking for.

 but then I also sent it to a bunch of different NBA personnel.  and,  they, they were great. Every time I saw him and his son, Ryan, they were just great to me.  altogether when I were, when I went to Portsmith further invitational or. Just saw them down at Georgia. They were just there. It’s all really good for me, but yeah, it all came from a few emails.


Mike Klinzing: [00:56:24] Again, the lesson that’s running through the whole thing is show up, right? Give it a shot. See what happens. While you were doing that scouting, was there a guy that you saw that maybe wasn’t a big name, that wasn’t a huge guy on the radar that ended up being a pretty decent NBA player back from the time when you were scouting that maybe when you first saw him, people didn’t really know who they were.

Hernando Planells: [00:56:48] Yeah, I remember Jeff Teague, I think. No, no, not Jeff Teague, I’m sorry. Bobby Brown, who played at Cal state Fullerton, and Bobby,  was with NBA for about maybe [00:57:00] two or three years, but he was a really, really good player.  he was a smooth guard, little undersized,  but he could make any shot from any range.

And I went to go see him a bunch of times and was really. Really impressed with it. There’s another guy, I’m useless, Baez who played at Western Illinois, had a cup of coffee in the NBA and had, has had a long career in the NBA. I mean, I’m sorry, in Europe,  for, for many, many years. And I know there’s one more, but I, I can’t think of it cause I didn’t go to the big games.

I didn’t go see UCLA or USC. Right. I went to the mid to low level D one schools. To find that sort of diamond in the rough, or just give them names for Portsmith or for summer camp.

Mike Klinzing: [00:57:47] Got it. Did you have fun? Did you like doing that?

Hernando Planells: [00:57:49] I loved it. I mean, it was, it was great. I mean, you, you sit there, you know, you have a pass, you just go, you sit right at the right on the sidelines,  on press row and, [00:58:00] you know, you’d meet different people.

 and then after the game you just get up and go. You didn’t have to coach a team. You just write a report afterwards.  and then you send it in. So I, I loved it. I thought it was,  it was, I was like, gosh, if I could do this full time, this would be amazing.

Mike Klinzing: [00:58:18] And I’m assuming that you asked or tried to pursue that at some point.

So just what’s the story behind how that ended or how it didn’t progress to you have an opportunity to maybe do that full time.

Hernando Planells: [00:58:30] You do that, you just reach out to every NBA team and, you know, you end up having different contacts. You know, a lot of times for years it was always the same. It was always like, yeah, I think we’re going to have an opening or think we’re going to expand our staff.

And then, you know, the opportunity would come and they didn’t expand their staff or you know, they owe someone else a favor. You know? And that’s one of the things where I’ve kind of realized that you could be close to a person, but you know, they always all a favor to somebody [00:59:00] else.  so you have to be very conscious of that.

 no matter if it’s disappointing or not. You know, you hear it all the time. Oh, that’s my guy. Oh yeah. When he goes somewhere, that’s my guy. I’m going with them. And then sometimes it doesn’t happen, and that’s okay.  but you know, it happened like that every single year. I’d get close and then you hear nothing.

 so it’s just one of those things was like, well, it’s all right. It’s not meant to be then. Then we’ll just keep going in this direction and see what happens.

Mike Klinzing: [00:59:27] Alright, so then from there. This is the next opportunity you have with Duke, or is there something that happens in the interim?

Hernando Planells: [00:59:33] Yeah, so,  after I was in,  the D league, and you know, in between I was still working on some movies.

I worked on three movies with Adam Sandler.  and then I had an opportunity to go to the Philippines.  so I went to a coach college basketball in the Philippines for about, that was about four or five months. I also did some player development with a few pro teams.  and I went there and it was [01:00:00] great because I’m half Filipino and I have a lot of family out there.

So I was able to spend some great time. And then I, I came back, I was,  30, 34 years old at the time, and I came back from the Philippines,  didn’t have any prospects whatsoever. I thought I’d go ahead and try for another. Daily job or, or latch on to another film production. I really had no direction, but every summer I worked the men’s and women’s basketball camp at Duke university, and I should backtrack.

When I,  in 2000 I moved to North Carolina after Japan just moved to North Carolina. Didn’t know anybody,  didn’t have a job.  they, I was let go. So that means they, they bought me out of my contract.  so we had a little money saved up and once in North Carolina. So that when I was in North Carolina, that’s when I did stuff in the D league.

That’s when I went to the Philippines. And,  so I’d work coach K and, and Joanne P McCallie the women’s coach at Duke, their camp every year for about three or four [01:01:00] years before then. And,  one camp I met,  Joanne,  brother-in-law who they live in Portland, Maine.  and I work out their daughters,  while at Duke camp.

And she, he of course was Joanne’s brother-in-law. And later on that year, I got the job in Maine. So I called Brian, is it Brian ham going to Maine? Is it a great place? He said, it’s great. So when I went to Maine, I would hang out with Brian and his family. The next summer I’m back at Duke camp. And,  I’m,  I see Joanne.

And I said, Hey, coach. And she looked at me and she was like, I don’t, I know you, but I don’t know, you know, that look you give people. And  she, and I was selling her book at camp. I walked around camp and I was selling her book like crazy and I, lot of energy, a lot of enthusiasm. And after camp she comes over to me and says, you know, I don’t know if you’re interested, but I have a great low paying non coaching job on my staff.

And I said. That’d be very interesting. [01:02:00] She’s great. My basketball operations,  lady Kate, we’ll call you great. So Kate called me a week later, said, Hey, coach wants to hire you. Are you done with your college degree? It was like, Nope, not done. And said, well, we can’t hire you. I said, all right, well, thanks so much.

And I hope the phone call back. I said, all right, how much time? Like when does this job start? She said, this job is going to start in five weeks. I said, okay. I said, well, I’m going to finish. She said, what? I said, yeah, I’m going to finish my degree in five weeks. She’s like, are you sure? I said, well, I got two classes.

I’ll figure it out. So my last few classes was speech and statistics, and I failed statistics three times before.  and, and so what I did, I, I was going to school called Regis university.  which is school in Colorado. And I’ve been chipping away online for years, chipping away at the degree, accumulating student loans.

So that’s a great balance in my life. So I [01:03:00] go and, and  I call Regis, they said, yeah, you have to test out a speech. Great. So I got my neighbors into my living room. I did my speech recorded and sent it out. Then I found that Western Washington university had their own go at your own pace statistics class.

So I took that class. I had to get a tutor. I was horrible. I think I barely passed it.  and five weeks later with my degree in hand from Regis university, I started my job at Duke and I was the,  direct relations, which means I sold. Joanne’s book. And I tweeted all day, but she knew I had a coaching background, so she’d asked me questions from time to time.

But that seven months was, was really tough because my salary for that year was 28,000. And again, this is, you know, a married, I have two kids in private school,  and I’m renting a home, so I really didn’t know what to do. So,  I would work at Duke during the day. [01:04:00]  and then, you know, there’s a,  there’s a company called synergy that does all the college game film breaks down the game, film and everything else.

And so I called synergy and see if I can get a job through synergy. And it just so happened that at that time you only had to work in, you had to live in Florida to work for synergy. So I didn’t live in Florida, obviously, but I had a friend who did. So I said, Hey, can I use your address? They said, yeah. So I had to address living in Florida, working at Duke, but I’d work at Duke during the day, spend time with my kids at night, and then I would work,  doing synergy games,  three or four a night, which means I was, you know, I slept for two hours a night.

 and I did that for six or seven straight months.  and then someone left the staff and Joanne called me one day and said, Hey, I want to move you up to assistant coach. And that’s how I became the assistant coach at Duke. All right.

Mike Klinzing: [01:04:55] So it goes back to something I said earlier. College coaching is super glamorous, [01:05:00] right?

Hernando Planells: [01:05:02] Right. It can be, yes.

Mike Klinzing: [01:05:05]  so when you transition from that lower level position up to. A full fledged assistant coach. What does that mean in your day to day, the things that you’re doing on the basketball floor? I’m assuming that you went from doing very little on the floor coaching to getting an opportunity to actually be out on the floor coaching.

Just talk about how, I’m assuming how much you enjoy that going from just strictly kind of doing the busy work that worked behind the scenes into being able to actually get out on the floor with players.

Hernando Planells: [01:05:36] You know, I, I enjoyed that part. The interesting part was how restrictive the rules are in college basketball,  to actually develop players,  and spend time with them.

 you know, you can only spend during the season, like 20 hours a week with them.  and then during the off season, at the time it was four hours a week. So, you know, when you’re, when, and I would say this all the [01:06:00] time, you know, when coaches go ahead and say like, we’re going to develop you over the next four years.

I would tell recruits, I want you to ask that coach how they’re going to do that, because you have eight weeks in the summertime, four hours a week. So you’re getting very little development time. A lot of things have to come from your internal hunger to get there. So, but I love being on the floor, you know, being able to work on some things with,  with the ladies and mind you, you know, Duke was my very first women’s.

Basketball job on top of being my very first division one. The last time I coached college, I was a junior college coach. So I, the the on the court stuff was the easy part, but it was the recruiting. So I talked to Joanne, I said, Hey guys, listen up. I’ll do anything. I’ll do, be on the court, whatever you need and everything else.

But I also want to tackle recruiting. So if you’re okay with it, I’d love to almost be like a politician and go around the country, shake hands and kiss babies. And [01:07:00] get to know people and recruit, and let’s go out and get some of these kids that we, we should be, we should be getting. So that first or now is my second year at Duke.

You know, I spent a lot of time flying everywhere, meeting with recruits, and then coming back and then working with the team as well too. So it was another hectic and, and everybody, you know, everybody did that. Like wow. Hernandez flying everywhere and look, he’s living the life I did, but, you know, I was tired.

I was tired. I didn’t have a lot of time with my kids.  and, and there was some drawbacks with it as well too. But you know, you just jump in really. And my very first question when I became the assistant coach was, all right, Joanne,  where can I fill a need, right? Where, what can I do? You already have a good X’s and O’s person.

You already have this people like, where are we lacking? And that’s where I wanted to.  create value and show what I could do based on what they needed.

Mike Klinzing: [01:07:54] I’m assuming that wouldn’t have been a question you would have asked 15 years prior to that.

Hernando Planells: [01:07:59] No. Yeah. [01:08:00] No way. I, I would’ve never, I would’ve walked in there thinking that I know everything about it because I’ve coached here, here, and here.

 and, and it was, so my transformation to that end. Was because of the journey that I was on the extreme ups and downs. Like I, you know, we talked about the movies, we talked about slam ball, we talked about, you know, going to all these different countries, but what we don’t talk about are that the over 20 times I was on unemployment the numerous times.

I didn’t know. You know how I was going to make a car payment or pay for food.  you know, I’m divorced. My kids grew up in California.  you know, there’s so many ups and downs with it that I don’t, you know, it’s one of those things you do, you know, do you regret anything? No, I, I, these are all part of the things that are part of your journey and you make the best of what you can do based on what you have.

 but you have to be able to live with those ups and downs and be okay with it so that you can provide. For yourself and for [01:09:00] the people who you are responsible for.

Mike Klinzing: [01:09:02] That’s absolutely a challenge. I think on the coaching side of it, when you think about just the journey and you think about starting, not necessarily at the bottom, maybe the wrong way of putting it, but you start as the low man on the totem pole and you have to work your way up and you have to take advantage of opportunities that you’re given and do the best job that you can, like we talked about earlier, and then.

More and more opportunities are going to come your way eventually, but it can be a struggle for sure. I think about the life of, you know, the average college coach and people see the glamour. People see the big names. People see the million dollar contracts, but they don’t see the guy that’s doing the things that you did in order to be able to get to where you want it to go in your career.

They just don’t, they don’t think about those things. The average person who’s a college basketball fan or just watch his games on TV and sees the big names, they don’t think about all the things that it takes behind the scenes and with [01:10:00] coaches that are,  on the staff, but are lower on the staff in terms of their, their title and their responsibilities and those kinds of things.

And in terms of their pay. And as a result, people have this, I think, misguided notion that everybody is coach K. You know, everybody has everybody who’s a college coach. They’re all going to get to that level of success eventually. And we all know how difficult it is to even come close to achieving anything like that in your career.

And there’s many, many guys that spend their entire career and ladies that spend their entire career. You know, working their way, either up that ladder or they get to a certain position where they find that they’re where they’re supposed to be and they love doing what they do at whatever level that there are, whatever level they’re at.

And I just think there’s a lot of different routes and different ways that people can go and coaching. And your story illustrates that so well because you’re as well traveled with as many of a variety of experiences. As you could [01:11:00] possibly possibly have. So let’s talk a little bit about the men versus women thing.

When you’ve got an opportunity first to coach women there at Duke as your first experience, what was, what did you like about it and what was different about

Hernando Planells: [01:11:14] it? I loved it.  I think a lot of it was, you know, there’s a certain level of. I don’t know. I like, I don’t want to use the word sweetness, but I’m going to say it.

Sweetness or kindness or something. You know, there was, you know, so many thank you’s. I mean, just the gratitude piece of it. I actually was speaking with Courtney banger, the head coach at North Carolina on the women’s side a few days ago, and she asked me, you know, why? Why do I like what? It was part of the women’s game that I really liked.

And it’s that part, like I appreciate the gratitude not to say that guys. Are thankful or they’re not, you know, grateful for things that, that’s not it as well at all. It’s, it’s, I just enjoyed it more. I also have a daughter,  so it helped me how to [01:12:00] communicate better with, with women, with females.  so much better.

 because of that. And so I think there was that, I don’t think there’s anything really different, you know, all players want to be coached.  I think the, the biggest difference is that, you know, with an aunts and Dorn, who’s the soccer coach at UNC said it best cause he coached men and women’s soccer at North Carolina.

And he talked about how. You know, when he was coaching both teams, they had,  his men’s team was playing and they were down six, zero and half time and half time they went in there and he just blew him up and he said, this is ridiculous. I can’t believe this is happening. I’m sure you said a couple of choice words.

They said, this is what we’re going to do, where to go out there. We’re going to just step on their necks, run all over them and just beat them up. To kingdom come, and the guys were like, yeah, let’s go. Let’s do this. He’ll say, they go, and they ended up winning like 10 to six or something like that. Then the next week, his women’s team was in the same predicament [01:13:00] down six zero so he said, Hey, I have the great, I already have the formula on how I’m going to rally my troops, so we come back and be ready to go.

So he goes in there. Same thing, says exact same thing to lays, lays. We’re going there, we’re going to step on the next word and attack them. We’re just going to beat them up. And they were like. Why? Why are we going to do all that? And they end up losing I think 10 zero whatever the score was, but it’s sort of that mental part of it and it has nothing to do with the winning or losing.

It’s how you’re relating with them. How are you relating with your, your male players or female players, but at the end of the day, it’s how you’re relating with people in general. So I love both sides. Like I, I love when I am able to, to coach men from time to time. And I love what I coach women. I don’t know if there’s a huge, huge difference.

 everybody wants to be coached. Everybody wants to be challenged.  but you learn how to, you learn more people’s skills when you end up coaching on both sides. And you yourself are open to the [01:14:00] different possibilities that it can lead.

Mike Klinzing: [01:14:03] I agree. I think there’s definitely things that I’ve coached, both my daughter’s team and I’ve coached my son’s team, and when I was a high school coach, I coached on the boys side of it.

But when I first got an opportunity to start coaching my daughters. It was just such a refreshing and different experience than coaching the boys. And again, not that one or the other is better or worse, but they were just different. And I enjoyed, as you just said, I enjoy both opportunities. Being able to have the chance to coach both genders and you learned that each gender has their strengths is gender has their differences that make the challenges with coaching to them.

Unique and yet they’re both just so satisfying in their own way. And I think it by you getting a chance to be on both sides of it. I think it’s as a parent too, going back to some parenting, it’s, I think it’s fortunate that I think about myself and I have two girls and a boy. And I think as a parent, I’m glad that I [01:15:00] had both experiences, the ability to have a son and have a daughter.

And I think whenever I see families that only have one gender, one or the other, I’m like how their experience has to be so much different. Than mine. When you have only one gender in your family, it just always strikes me as, boy, you have all boys, and I don’t know about you, but all the families I know, that’s our all boys.

They’re just were crazy. And then, yeah, and you have the families that are all girls, and I really don’t have any idea what that’s like as clearly as a kid. I don’t know what that looked like, but I know it all boy’s family. Those families are crazy.

Hernando Planells: [01:15:32] I think you’re absolutely right. Being enabled, coach, both boys and girls ever has actually helped me,  work with other sports,  on both men and on the women’s side.

So you just get a bigger and a grander, I think, outlook on things,  and how everything is relatable and how it could transcend different sports.

Mike Klinzing: [01:15:55] I want to ask you about some of the culture things that you’ve [01:16:00] talked about. And I know during your presentation for the virtual coaches clinic. You had a screen that talked about some of your culture shaping questions, and I just want to throw one or two of those at you and have you talk a little bit about why you think these are such.

Important questions and that can kind of at least give us some idea of sort of the philosophy and the things that you brought to your job. So one of the questions that you had during that presentation was what do you want to be known for? Why is that question important? If I’m a coach and I’m putting together my program, why is, what do you want to be known for?

Why is that an important question when it comes to shaping my culture?

Hernando Planells: [01:16:40] Well, I think that’s because you get to hear. What your players and what you as a coach want to go ahead and be known for. Because sometimes it’s really hard for us to really voice that or actually put that down on paper. You know, you hear like, I want my program to be known for toughness.

Okay, great. So then [01:17:00] what does that really look like in the whole scheme of things? You know, I want my program to be disciplined. Okay, so what does that really mean? Well as coaches, we have started to, or women we’ve always have, just because that’s the way TV is. We, we speak in like coach talk. So the L the more we get away from it, the more we go into the micro level of different things, then we’re able to really,  see what we need as a program.

Right? So, so the question is like, all right, well, follow my program to be known as tough. Okay. So what is your definition of toughness. What is your player’s definition of toughness because they’re vastly different than the coaches and how do we merge those together so that now we have one message, one voice, one mission moving forward?

So that’s, I think one of those questions are extremely important because you’re really shaping up. Like we would do that for business plants. We would sit there and like are what we, what do we want our product to be known as or known for? [01:18:00] Well, if it’s great enough for business, it should be great enough for our basketball program.

Mike Klinzing: [01:18:07] Yeah, so true. I think there’s no question that when you start thinking about what you want to be known for, whether that’s just in your personal life, whether that’s as a coach, your basketball program, whether that’s in your business, it’s a great way to, I think frame your decision making too in that when you think about, okay, here’s the decision that I’m going to make, is this go along with what I want to be known for.

If I make this decision and I decided to go this direction, sometimes I think it’s pretty easy to clarify your thinking. When you just have it come down to that question, is this something that when I make this decision that I want to be known for, does it fit with what I want to be known for? Another question, what do you want your opponents to say about you?

Why is that important to building a culture if you’re a coach?

Hernando Planells: [01:18:49] Because right now, well, it’s all the time. Perception is reality, right? So if opponents take a look at like, wow, that team is tough. You know, they’re going to [01:19:00] tell other people it’s tough. Any want to be remembered in some ways, right? If, if you, if your team is tough and you’re going to go play a team, you want them to remember you.

So the next time they play like, Oh boy. I remember when Hernando came down the lane and he is one tough guy. You know those things. It’s almost like that legend mentality. Like the legend just grows like it, you know, people think and they like, Oh, well there’s Fernando, he’s, he’s a pretty big life character.

And they think in their mind line like six, five, and then I show up and I’m like, you’re only five, 10. Yeah. Well, the legend is there, right? Because that’s what other people are,  are saying about you. And it’s the same thing with your teams. Like, that’s. That’s what you want. And again, it’s the same thing that translates over the business world because it’s how do you want your customers to see who you are and how you are and what you do.

So when you have those things, you start also creating an identity of who you are. Because sometimes, and I don’t know if any of your coaches have had to deal with this, but [01:20:00] sometimes we start the season saying, okay, I want my team to be extremely tough. Will you do all these toughness drills and you do all, you know, you put them in game situations and practice situations and come December.

They’re still not tough. Right? So, so, but maybe they are good at something else. And maybe start, if you’re open minded enough, you could start shifting a little bit, which net then now enhances your team’s strength because you are noticing that maybe they’re not as tough as you want them to be, but they do some other things that are, that are doing well, where now you could enhance and get some, you know, some success to you.

Mike Klinzing: [01:20:36] Yeah. And everybody’s different from a player to your team year to year. And even though you can say, we want our team to be known as being tough, we know whether you’re a high school coach or a college coach, your personnel is changing every year, and so toughness or one team may look a little bit different than toughest for another team.

And I think that’s one of the hallmarks of a good coaching staff is that they’re [01:21:00] able to adjust to their personnel, both from an X’s and O’s standpoint, but also just from a culture standpoint and what they’re doing and how they go about doing it. Which goes to another culture shaping question that you asked, which was how do you want to treat each other?

What does that look like? Why is that important? How we treat each other as part of the program when it comes to building culture?

Hernando Planells: [01:21:21] Well, you know, there’s people use the word family or tribe or anything when it describes their team. Well, you know, you’ve gotta be able to treat each other really well so that you build a connection.

You see teams now. In this day and age have to be connected. You know, maybe five years ago, 10 years ago, maybe connection wasn’t as important, but then I would argue it was, they just connected in a different way. Today’s athletes need to be connected. They need to be connected to coaches. They need to be connected to.

 their teammates. So by understanding that and treating your [01:22:00] teammates in such a way,  then you’re building that connection.  whether it’s, it’s respect, whether it’s through humor,  whether it’s just through fun, whether it’s moments, activities, any of it at all. Builds the connection, but it all starts on how we treat each other and you know, there’s a respect factor that come with it.

There’s a manners factor that comes into it.  and just overall it keeps a good team chemistry as you move forward.

Mike Klinzing: [01:22:28] How do you build that in your team? How do you go about instilling those values and stilling that culture? What are some things that a coach could do day to day? Are some of the things that you’ve gone or you’ve seen done.

That helps us to understand if I’m a member of your team and helps me to understand how I’m supposed to treat my teammates. Is that something that you have to model as a coaching staff? Is that something that you can do, team building activities with each other? How do you go about doing that day to day?

Hernando Planells: [01:22:57] Well, a lot of it can just come from a [01:23:00] simple thank you. Hello. How are you? A simple conversation, right? I think coaches, it is our responsibility to build the relationships, but you build the relationships through. Great conversations and the great conversations could be one minute, could be two minutes, it could be an hour.

Well, whatever the coach and the player ends up talking about, but you know when, when you have that type of chemistry and the importance of it, it just, everything. Grows stronger and the bond becomes stronger with it. And I think that when you see great teams, they are connected. I just spoke with Nolan Smith who played on the Duke teams when they won national championship.

And,  you know, he’s the director of basketball operations and they have a big thing called,  Called brotherhood. And they believe that everybody comes to that program or brothers. And it’s same thing. We were Duke, you know, we’re all sisters.  you know, and, and that having that is such an important piece of the culture.

And that means you have to do the little things. It’s. Are, you know, everybody’s picking up, you know, the [01:24:00] water bottles or the basketballs. You don’t leave. And you know, we talked about Todd Wilson, who you’ve had on your podcast. He’s huge on that, you know.  and that goes back to how do you want to be remembered?

Well, they’re remembered obviously by winning, but they’re remembered because they also clean everything up when they leave. They also,  shake hands to the opponents and to the other administrators when they leave the gym. All those things go a super long way.

Mike Klinzing: [01:24:26] All right, Hernando, we’re coming up on about an hour and a half, so I want to give you a chance before we get outta here to share how people can find out more about all the things that you’re doing.

Give us a little rundown on where you’re at right now with the things that you have going in terms of your speaking and all the other stuff that you have going on. Share your social media ways that people can get in touch with you, and then if there’s any final points that you’d like to make before we wrap things up, you can go ahead and do that and then I’ll jump back on and we’ll finish up the episode.

Hernando Planells: [01:24:56] Sure. That’s awesome. First of all, I appreciate being on guys. This has [01:25:00] been amazing. I can’t believe it’s already been an hour and a half. It goes so fast. Well, not, you know, I, so I, I left Duke about a year ago and I have a company called be contagious leadership where, you know, base, I work with teams and organizations all around the country.

I’m working on how they lead, connect,  communicate,  with their players or their team, their employees. And. You know, using a lot of improv activities, there’s, there’s meditation as a visualization. There’s just the whole gamut of things on how we could be better leaders because, you know, we only lead the way we were led.

We only communicate the way we were communicated to. And et cetera. So those are things that, that,  I’ve been able to, to grow.  luckily,  through a lot of great people that I’ve been able to meet. And I also coach the New Zealand junior national team. So I have firsthand experience on, on learning, continuing my learning on leading and communicating, cause my team is 9,000 miles away.

 so it’s, it’s really a process and you could visit.  [01:26:00] my website, HernandoPlanells.com,  I’m not going to spell it. You can just put Hernando comma basketball on Google. You’ll find everything.

Mike Klinzing: [01:26:08] We’ll have it all in the show notes. So they’ll be able to get it all everything they need.

Perfect. And I got Instagram and Twitter and everything else. But, you know, I think that, you know, my last thing is that,  coaching really is, is really more of a service industry more than anything else. And I think that once we. Have an open mind to,  the game,  open mind to how we speak with individuals,  our players.

And then the sky really is a limit. I mean, the biggest stat I saw a few weeks ago is that, you know, our players today will only give you 11 seconds of their undivided attention. And then after that, they’re there in LA LA land. So how are we communicating? How are we getting better as coaches and leaders?

And there’s any way I can help anyone do that. Please reach out and,  hope to hear from all of you.

Mike Klinzing: [01:26:53] Hernando. We can’t thank you enough for spending this time with us tonight. We really appreciate it. There’s been a lot of great things to take away from [01:27:00] your career, the different stops that you had, the various experiences that you’ve been able to take part in in the game.

There’s a lot of good lessons in there for coaches, and again, we thank you for jumping on with us and to everyone out there. We will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.

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