DENNY MCDONNELL – SIMPSON COLLEGE MEN’S BASKETBALL ASSISTANT COACH & FOUNDER OF 4VLEGACY BASKETBALL TRAINING – EPISODE 1273

Website – https://simpsonathletics.com/sports/mbkb/index  https://www.4vlegacy.com/

Email – denny@4vlegacy.com

Instagram – @4vlegacy/

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Denny McDonnell is entering his third season as a Men’s Basketball Assistant Coach at D3 Simpson College in Indianola, Iowa.  McDonnell’s extensive coaching career includes serving as the boy’s assistant coach at North High School in Des Moines, Iowa and the girls’ basketball coach at Valley High School in West Des Moines. He is also the founder of the 4VLegacy development basketball program in Central Iowa, a program dedicated to offering private instructional basketball skill development for young athletes aged 8-18.

On this episode Mike & Denny discuss the challenges and rewards of coaching at both high school and college levels, particularly the significance of fostering authentic relationships with players to cultivate leadership and resilience. McDonnell shares insights into the evolution of player development and the critical role of effective communication in enhancing team culture.

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You’ll want to take some notes as you listen to this episode with Denny McDonnell, Men’s Basketball Assistant Coach at Simpson College and the founder of the 4VLegacy Basketball Development Program.

What We Discuss with Denny McDonnell

• The importance of teaching basic fundamental skills as a trainer
• Why players do not need an extensive repertoire of complex moves to be effective on the court
• How modern players face different challenges compared to previous generations
• Keys to establishing strong communication and relationships with players
• Simplicity and focus on basic skills can lead to greater success for young athletes
• Developing effective practice routines and player development strategies
• The advent of social media and the impact it has on young athletes’ training and expectations
• The evolving landscape of youth basketball and the impact of AAU programs
• Understanding each player’s unique needs and fostering their development

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The modules cover things like writing emails to coaches, building an effective highlight tape, using social media well, planning ID camps and visits, and navigating application strategy.

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THANKS, DENNY MCDONNELL

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TRANSCRIPT FOR DENNY MCDONNELL – SIMPSON COLLEGE MEN’S BASKETBALL ASSISTANT COACH & FOUNDER OF 4VLEGACY BASKETBALL TRAINING – EPISODE 1273

[00:00:00] Narrator: The Hoop Heads Podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball

[00:00:20] Denny McDonnell: A lot of what I’ve done is just taken from what I’ve learned as a player and then as a coach, and then we just talk about that stuff. You don’t need 16 different moves and 32 dribbles at the top to be able to make something happen.

[00:00:36] Mike Klinzing: Denny McDonnell is entering his third season as a men’s basketball assistant coach at D3 Simpson College in Indianola, Iowa.

McDonnell’s extensive coaching career includes serving as the boys’ assistant coach at North High School in Des Moines, Iowa, and the girls’ basketball coach at Valley High School in West Des Moines. He is also the founder of the 4V Legacy Development Basketball Program in Central Iowa, a program dedicated to offering private instructional basketball skill development for young athletes age 8 to 18.

GiveWithHoops is the first platform turning basketball analytics into fundraising impact. Every stat tells a story, and now every story drives sponsorship, engagement, and team growth. Programs nationwide are transforming basketball stats into funding power. Learn to use performance data to attract sponsors, engage fans, and raise more with every play.

GiveWithHoops will help you raise three times more money for your program as their stat-based pledges consistently outperform traditional fundraisers. Visit givewithhoops.com slash hoop dash heads dash podcast to learn more and take your fundraising to the next level. GiveWithHoops.

[00:01:49] Jason Parker: Hi, this is Dr. Jason Parker, founder of JP3 Training and Performance in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and you’re listening to the Hoop Heads podcast

[00:02:01] Mike Klinzing: Are you or an athlete you know planning to go D3? Check out the D3 Recruiting Playbook from D3 Direct. Their playbook gives you a clear step-by-step roadmap to the recruiting process, what coaches value, key milestones from early high school through application season, and how to build a targeted list of schools that fit your needs.

The playbook demystifies researching D3 programs and how to stand out without chasing every camp or showcase. The modules cover things like writing emails to coaches, building an effective highlight tape, using social media well, planning camps and visits, and navigating application strategy. You’ll get templates, checklists, and an outreach plan to communicate confidently, learn how to compare financial packages, and avoid common missteps.

By the end, you’ll have a prioritized school list and a decision framework you can use to land your best fit opportunity. Click on the link in the show notes to get your D3 Recruiting Playbook from D3 Direct

You’ll want to take some notes as you listen to this episode with Denny McDonnell, men’s basketball assistant coach at Simpson College and the founder of the 4V Legacy Basketball Development Program.

Hello, and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason Sunkle tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by Denny McDonnell, Assistant Men’s Basketball Coach at Simpson College, and also the founder of 4V Legacy, a basketball training program.

Denny, welcome to the Hoop Heads Pod.

[00:03:33] Denny McDonnell: Thank you. Thank you for having me here. I’m really excited, and at 57 years old, I got a lot to talk about, so we may have to cram this in.

[00:03:40] Mike Klinzing: That’s good. Hey, listen, the more you talk, the less I have to talk. So I always say never apologize for the stories that you tell and all the things that you have to share, because the more you talk, the less I have to talk.

So have at it when we start going into the conversation. I want to start, Denny, by going back in time to when you were a kid. Tell me a little bit about your first experiences with the game of basketball. Who introduced you to it? What do you remember from early on?

[00:04:05] Denny McDonnell: I think, again, this is what’s fun about the game, and how much that it starts as a family.

So my first coach was my dad and third, fourth grade you’re going through all of that. So the big thing, I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. So the big thing at that time was we didn’t have AAU at that time. I’m 1,000 years old. And so then when I get to you were playing YMCA ball, and then you get an opportunity to get recruited to play in the Small Fry League.

So it’s through the Salvation Army, Lincoln, Nebraska. You have to be under 5’1″ to play, and it cuts at seventh grade. So like fifth, sixth, and seventh, like I was never going to run out of time in terms of my height. Like I’m a whopping 5’7″ on a great day. So that was the first exper- real experience.

That’s the whole uniform, that’s the scoreboard, that’s the clock. So I, I had opportunity to play for the Trophy Shop was the name of it. It was a great league. A lot of my friends played on different teams I went to high school with. So yeah, that was just a great experience. So again, 5’1″, up to seventh grade.

If you were over 5’1″, couldn’t play. So then when you went to eighth grade, then you could play Big Fry, which was 10-foot hoops and like whatever. It was a pretty interesting setup. But to go from the YMCA where you have the T-shirt and now you have an actual, like you got jerseys, you got names on the back, like that was pretty special at that time.

The stuff that kids get an opportunity to expose themselves to now is substantially different than what we… I didn’t have a highlight film, ever.

[00:05:32] Mike Klinzing: No, you did not. And you weren’t traveling all over the world either to be able to play all these games. You’re playing in your local community. What was it like, just the, I don’t even want to say necessarily pickup basketball scene, but how was your childhood upbringing with sports, and basketball in particular, different from some of the kids that both you coach at the college level now and that you work with in your private training business?

[00:05:56] Denny McDonnell: The amount of games, and we could talk about this is a whole different deal, but the amount of games that kids play now is substantially different to how it was then. So we didn’t have an AAU program at that time. I graduated high school in 1987. My daughter says, “You’re from the 1900s.” I have to correct her on that.

It’s ’87. It’s not the 1900s. So it was fun to be able to work through some of that, and it was open gyms through your high school. I went to Linn-Mar, which is a 4A school 5A, depending on what sport in Cedar Rapids. We moved there. As I said, I grew up in Lincoln, so we moved there, and then my sophomore and I ended up graduating there.

But so it was a three-on-three league in the summer. Anywhere you could sneak in, there was a YMCA that always forgot to lock the back door. A- and no air. So we’re talking, it’s like dead of summer, 85 degrees and I’m in with a ball shooting, and that was the extent of it. You didn’t have a lot of people that specified sport-wise.

People played all sports at that time, right? So you really didn’t have… you had a basketball season, you had baseball, you had football. It wasn’t like it is now where things go year-round and you just have to decide on where you’re at. So it, it took an awful lot of time and not being blessed with a ton of size I had to work pretty hard in order to be able to participate.

I had a really enjoyable time in high school. I was probably a sixth man at Linn-Mar. But again the guys that we played with, I had two guys that were football high school All-Americans in front of me. W- I was playing against practice was pretty big time for me because I didn’t really have an opportunity as much as I would’ve liked in high school

[00:07:32] Mike Klinzing: What’s your favorite memory?

What’s your favorite memory from being a high school basketball player?

[00:07:37] Denny McDonnell: I think probably would be this. So my junior year we had a coaching change, and the coach that I really enjoyed, Bob Landis, was there for a substantial amount of time and just was a really great man and a great mentor and a great teacher of the game.

And so it’s my senior year and we’re playing I think it was Cedar Rapids Prairie, which was a rival at that time. And so we got done, we end up winning. I end up hitting free throws at the end to, to end up sealing it. And so I got interviewed by Coach Landis at the end. He was doing the radio broadcast at that time since he was stepped away from the game.

And he was always a character, so I kinda gave it back to him a little bit. So afterwards, the game was great, and we end up winning and I hit some free throws. That was great. But so I… He was talking to me and he said, Denny, I know that you shoot about 1,000 free throws a day.”

And I was like Coach, I don’t think I’ve ever shot 1,000 free throws, but thank you.” And he said I know that… I saw that you went five for six, but you missed one.” And I said, “Yeah. I looked down at my shoes and couldn’t remember why I wore those, so it kinda threw me off.” And so he kinda looked at me like, “Are you being serious right now?”

I was like, “No, I’m not being serious.” That’s just a sort of a quirky story, but there’s nothing better, and I’m sure it’s the same today, right? The camaraderie with the guys being able to bus trips. There were all sorts of things that, that at that time, before we had social media and phones and cameras and all of that, there, there were some interesting times that were fun on bus trips.

But as we, as I transitioned into college and I got a chance to play at Buena Vista i- in Storm Lake, that’s a Division III school here in Iowa. And so that is where my basketball career took off. I had always, it’s always been a dream that I wanted to play in college. We met with our coach who was again, a great teacher and mentor.

Jeff Spielman was the head coach at Buena Vista at that time. And so my dad had scheduled a visit, so we got in and we did the whole admissions thing and, I’m not… At that time unless you’re pretty big or you’re well-known, and in Northwest Iowa, I am from the other side of the state.

You don’t get a lot of game film, you don’t have crossover. So we just show up and, I coach asked me, “Hey, did you get in last night?” And I got in for two or three minutes. It wasn’t a great… It was a, one of those games where things didn’t go well and y- I just didn’t get in much.

So I had to then sit across from this college coach and tell him I played about three minutes last night. And so luckily, my father, who was always the protector, was like, I just want you to understand that, D- Denny doesn’t have a lot of natural stuff, but he’ll work harder than most guys that you’ll ever have on the team.”

And so his comment was, “You can come out as a freshman. We won’t cut you as a freshman, and it depends on where you go from there.” So my freshman year was at a Division III school, Northwest Iowa. So it was interesting because you’re playing against a lot of guys that have a lot of accolades in in high school.

You had 2,000-point scorers. And I’m not minimizing that. That’s an accomplishment. But Being against the people that I played against in practice every day, as I transitioned, it, it was like, I can… This isn’t that bad. I can handle this. And so again, it was through a lot of preparation.

I played a little bit my junior year, and then I started every game as a senior and was all conference. But during that time, I think that’s where especially you didn’t have Capital City League, which is a league that we have here in Des Moines where a lot of college players will play in the summer.

It’s more pickup than anything. But we didn’t have that stuff, so I was five days in a weight room probably three days shooting. Which again, today, like you can find a gym anywhere nowadays. At that time, like you either had to go pay to get into the Y and then you were fighting like guys that were your dad’s age, so like that wasn’t always the best.

And then it was the local high school, and so that’s about what we had. So when I’m working with players today that are high school or younger, we have to talk an awful lot about transitioning, and so all of the specialized work that we do is great, but if none of that transfers to a game, like that’s…

you’re throwing money into the wind. So we- I’ve spent an awful lot of time on that because as I was playing there were certain things in my role as a point guard that I knew I had to be good at, and so those were the things I spent time on. I didn’t have YouTube videos to teach me. I didn’t have an opportunity to go to Instagram and see what kind of things people are working on.

So it was old-fashioned, in the gym. You’re going to play pickup a couple times a week, and then you start to realize, okay, I’m not very good here. These are the things I need to work on for the next level. So all of that prep time, those summer seasons are just so important, and I think that’s probably why I enjoy the summer so much in that I get a chance to work with kids all the time, and I have kids that are, we’ll get to that later, but I have eight-year-olds on up to, guys in college and guys that are playing overseas.

But it was summer. Summer is the time where you got better, and so everybody goes to practice during the season. You’re not going to outwork anybody typically in the season unless you’re getting extra shots up, but I had to spend all my time in the summer doing those things, and that was not anything anybody had to motivate me to do.

Guys like you and I and Jacob, like we just love the game. Like you didn’t have to talk me into going to an open gym. If there was a gym somewhere and somebody wanted to play, you know I was in because those summers were the time that made a difference

[00:12:48] Mike Klinzing: scientific were you as far as what you did drill-wise when you’re in the gym by yourself?

I always say that when I was, from the time probably I was, let’s say, 14 or 15 until my college career ended at 22, I basically did the same two workouts. I had a workout that I did if it was me by myself in the gym.

Yeah. And then I had a workout that if I was lucky enough to have somebody that wanted to shoot with me or play one-on-one, I had a thing that I did with a partner.

And pretty much without very much variance at all, that was what I did. And I’m sure I got really good at those drills and those shots- Yeah … that I worked on all the time. But to your point about does that translate to games, I’m sure it did obviously to some degree. But by the same token, I look now at all the innovation and just the different ways that we have of working on our game and working with players and all that kind of thing, and I just think back to how, I don’t know if unscientific I was, but it was, I had a plan- Yeah

but the plan never changed from-

[00:13:49] Denny McDonnell: No …

[00:13:49] Mike Klinzing: one day to the next, to the year, to the next to the… So I just don’t know, how did you organize how you tried to improve yourself when you’re in the gym all alone back when you were a, back when you were a college player?

[00:14:00] Denny McDonnell: A- and a- again, this translates from high school too.

So I, I was not a great shooter. I shared the ball well, I played defense, I got people the ball at the right places. I did all of those little things. I just didn’t shoot it real well. And so I can remember the old Steve Alford sitting the ball on the folding chair around the outside, time after time in this gym that is god-awful hot and, but that, those were the things that I did. And it, basic stuff like we had to make two in a row from here. We have to make three in a row from here. So when you look at the differences now and all of the finishing things we, I didn’t have any of that. We didn’t know that. No.

We didn’t play off two feet. That wasn’t even on the radar, right? I was watching Dr. J dunk on people and Larry Bird just make people look silly. I didn’t have a lot of those skills, so I had to work on some of those things individually. From a ball handling standpoint, that was always something that was fairly natural to me.

And I think that’s just because you you’re short your whole life, you grow up with a ball in your hands. You’re not the post guy that has to touch it from somebody throwing it to you. It was inbounded to me. So I think that was a little bit of why I was fairly good, handling the ball and doing things that way

[00:15:08] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, no, that makes sense.

And a- again, it’s just interesting how different things are today versus how they were when you and I were kids and trying to grow up and improve as a player. Just completely different. I look at my son, who’s a college player now, and I think about the number of pickup games that he’s played in compared to the number of pickup games- Oh

I had played in by the time I was 20. It’s ridiculous. And in so many ways, not his fault, quote, unquote- No … because there just aren’t-

[00:15:34] Jason Parker: No …

[00:15:35] Mike Klinzing: there just aren’t games. Those games that I played in all the time with high-level high school, college players, adults- Yeah … those games do- just don’t exist anymore.

And a lot of those games for me were outside, which I’m sure you could relate- Yeah … to that, too. Yes. That, now you look at- Yep … top-level high school players Do those guys ever play outside? I think about going to Five Star when I was going into my senior year and playing on the converted tennis courts at- Yes

Robert Morris, and it’s 95 degrees, and it’s the sun, and- Yep … you’re playing shirts and skins and all this stuff. And, the week I was, the week I was there, Billy Owens, who went to Syracuse and was from Carlisle, Pennsylvania, Billy Owens was the big name guy the week I was there. And I think, he was probably a top five player in the country that year.

And, now you think about one of these guys that got drafted last night, could you see them in the current iteration of things out on the, out on these converted tennis courts playing on- Yeah … asphalt and whatever. It’s just, again, a completely different world from the one you and I grew up in, for sure.

[00:16:36] Denny McDonnell: That whole evolution of how we went to… And again, it’s the birth and the growth of the AAU, which we all know, and that’s a separate topic. Yep. But I think, when I look at the opportunities when I go to practices and whether it’s I’m recruiting kids or, whatever I’m doing and I’m there watching, and it’s very bland.

It is a little bit of a drill. You might go through some sets. A- again, nobody’s running sets hardly in AAU. It’s first, it’s pass and jack. But occasionally you get an out of balance play, but it’s all drill and development driven, which is substantially different because then when we got in the gym and we could have our coaches work with us that was two hours and you maybe got 15 to maybe 20 minutes of scrimmage in that time.

Everything else was very scripted in terms of what we were working on, and it was, there was an intensity in that. And so I think sometimes that’s a little bit what has changed, is the intensity at practice isn’t quite what it used to be because you’re going to play three games tomorrow on Saturday. So we’re going to get through- Absolutely

practice ’cause we got three games tomorrow. So it’s a little bit of a shift there. But again that’s just the landscape of things, right? That’s how things have evolved. And there’s good in it and there, there’s bad in it, and I get asked… The, one of the questions I get asked a lot and it always happens around March, is I get…

in Des Moines, where I’m at in Iowa, we have, four or five pretty solid AAU programs, and I get the same question all the time, is, “Where should I go play?” or “Which program should I go to?” And I always say the same thing: “Who’s your coach?” Because if it’s the guy that raises his hand that, didn’t quite get enough playing time in high school, you can see those guys on the sideline.

That, that’s easy to spot. So I think those are– that’s some of the things that I I coached in that world for a bit. And from a, an old school and kind of a purist, like some of those things just are hard to sift through. And I just think that the intensity that you bring in practice is going to carry over into games, and I– and we all know that.

That’s a proven fact. Convincing players that needs to happen is sometimes a little bit of a challenge

[00:18:47] Mike Klinzing: There’s no doubt about that. I love your answer about, hey, it’s- it’s all about the coach. That’s the same answer that I give people when they ask me. They’re like, “Should I be in this program?

Should I be in that program?” Yeah. My answer is always, look, you can be in the best program, and unfortunately get the one coach in that program- Yeah … that isn’t doing a good job, and you’re going to have a terrible experience. Conversely, you could be in an organization that maybe isn’t that great- … but if you have a great coach, you’re going to have a great experience.

And I tell people all the time, you have to go and ask questions. And if you can go and watch that coach do something- Yeah … watch them coach- Yes … something where you can at least see them and get a feel for who they are. And even then you can make mistakes as far as- Yeah, of course … what you do there. But by the same token I do think that the ultimate factor in whether or not your AA- AAU experience is a good one is who’s the coach.

And that determines, again, what do your practices look like. Yeah. Are they about development? That determines how you get playing time. That determines are you running it like a real team, or are you running the let’s fight over who- Yes … gets to get the ball when it comes out of bounds, and go down- Yeah

dribble down the floor and shoot it. And so all the things that we all know can be challenges with AAU, all those things can be mitigated if you have a good coach, and then you can have a tremendous experience. And there’s so many good programs and good coaches out there- Yeah. Yeah … and yet there’s also some that, that unfortunately don’t do those things, and people sometimes get stuck.

I always say that parent education is a huge part of making sure- Oh, yes … that your kid’s experience is a good one. And that’s really hard to do because parents… Look, us as coaches we get to go through this stuff all the time with multitudes of players, and so we have an idea of understanding the landscape.

And yet I could honestly say that it’s not always easy for me to get it right, and I kinda know- Nah … what I’m doing and navigating. And so for a parent who’s only going to go- It’s our world. We live in that. Yeah, exactly. And so for a parent who has to go through it only once or twice, and especially if it’s your first time through, you don’t know where all those landmines are, and you’re trying to figure it out.

And you hear this and that, and you’re seeing this on social media, and this other- Yes … mom or dad is talking to you- It’s… Yep … and your kid’s hearing these things. And before you know it, there’s just, your whole mind is scrambled and you’re trying to figure it out. And I just think that your advice that you said there of just find the right coach, that’s the best bet to getting to the right program.

And if you can do that, you’ll probably end up with a pretty good experience. But it’s not easy to do, for sure.

[00:21:15] Denny McDonnell: And it, as I, I was, I coached, my first coaching in AAU was at a program that no longer exists in Des Moines. But I was blessed with some pretty good players and good families.

And again, when you, when the term good families, they’re are, 99% they’re all good families. But, we always think our kid is better than anybody else. I was, my daughter played softball and I had the same gripe. I understand it having a daughter that was an athlete. But- one of the things that gets really difficult is when you start looking at, when you have parents that are now stock- that are now talking about another player on the team, right?

And like those are the things right there that that was the hot button for me. You worry about your kid. I don’t… You don’t need to talk to me about this kid. That’s not your kid. Stay out of that. And I had a parent that was pretty solid and had been through it a couple times.

He had, I think he had two, or a daughter and a son, and then I coached the youngest son. But he had just said “You just have to remember you’re never going to please them all, and it’s okay if they don’t like you. It’s okay. Yeah, it’s okay. That’s going to happen.” So again, as a coach going through that stuff I know what that felt like.

I knew … You could tell the f- the look that you got from parents after games. You could feel those things. But, so then I stepped away from it, and then I had a parent come to me. I had worked with this young man since he was probably third grade, and he was now going to be a freshman.

And so the dad comes to me and says, “Okay. I need you to coach Jack’s team, okay? I put the roster together based on players and parents. I will book all the tournaments. You show up for practices twice a week and coach them on the weekends, and I’ll do all the rest.” And then he threw a bunch of money at me.

So then I was like, “Okay. All right. I’ll go one more time.” And so again, at the parent meeting, I was like, “Here’s the deal. I’m going to be upfront about this.” At that time, I hadn’t been in college yet, so I said, “I’m coaching this like a high school team, and you’re going to play defense. And if that’s not okay we’re not, then don’t be on this team, ’cause I’m going to yell at you if you don’t play defense.

This isn’t like a lot of these other programs have been run.” And so we had, we went to our first tournament, and we’re, I think we were one and three. First time we’d ever played together. And so then as we evolved, we ended up w- winning our last… We went 20 and one, and won our last four tournaments.

And a- again, that’s not brilliant coaching. That is just getting kids that understand what we’re trying to do, and it’s in their character because the guy that put this team together was very wise in who he had selected. So it was guys that really fit together and all really enjoyed playing. I didn’t have any superstars on the team, not one.

They just all understood that this is the defensive scheme we’re running, and we’re pushing everything baseline. You’re icing every ball screen, and that’s what we’re doing, and then we’re going to get out and run. So we were fortunate enough to have that go. So that lasted for two years, and then it got to the point where now you have s- those guys that are, were basketball players in the summer are now playing seven-on-seven football.

Now you have guys that were freshmen that are now juniors and seniors that are playing baseball. And Iowa, I don’t know if you know this, but I think we’re the only state in the union that has baseball and softball in the summer Not during any other time of the year. May is when it starts, and it goes all the way through July.

So anytime you have baseball and for the women’s program, you got softball, the same thing, right? So you have varsity sports they’re committed to, and now you’re trying to take tournaments and get together, and then you’ve got your high school team. You’re trying to go to team camps. Like, all of that stuff is muddled.

So that, that– I was sad because that was the team I really enjoyed coaching. But so that, that was the AAU experience. And again, as you look at everybody wants to talk about referees. I always have a referee come to a camp that I do and have them talk and have kids ask questions There is nothing better than a fourth grader asking an AAU official why they don’t call fouls the same at the end of the day as they do the beginning.

That’s awesome. Fourth grade. And we had questions like that, and then we had questions like “How much do you guys get paid?” And I had to meander away from some of those things, but I think that is one of the things that… And it’s difficult because as we talk about a referee’s perspective, right?

They’re per game, and they’re there all day. And and it- they never get a break, right? They’re always going to get… They always get something wrong in, in somebody’s mind. And so I always had them come because I wanted them to un- kids to understand these are people. These are people. Yes, they’re referees, but they’re people.

And that’s been one thing that I’ve really enjoyed and I’ve continued to do in all the camps that I do, is I have at least one come in and talk about… and then it’s, we spin to the conversation of how is refereeing in AAU different than high school and college. And so again, I think the best answer I ever got on that is, “Do you want to, do your parents want to show up to a free throw contest?

Because that’s what it’s going to end up being.” And so some of those things have been really helpful, but I think again, that, that whole AAU landscape is b- I just wish we would get away from all of the titles. There’s a program in town that has four different elite programs at the same grade level.

You have elite red, elite gr- gray, elite black. And so now parents can say he’s on the elite,” whatever. Do we care about what the name is anymore? Can we just worry about getting better? Because that’s our number one thing we need to do in this program. So those are a couple of those things that my AAU experiences that I enjoyed it because everything’s fast-paced and if there’s a bad game, you get a chance to scratch it and make a new one.

I think that’s great for players as well. And in the game these days mental toughness means how quick can you forget, and nothing does that better than having to play three games in one day. So there’s value in there to some degree, for sure.

[00:26:55] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, absolutely. I do think that ability to bounce back, I know that’s one of the things that When I first started coaching, so back right when my playing career ended and I started coaching, one of the things I had a really hard time adjusting to was players that would lose a game and then they’d be on the bus 15 minutes later and laughing and- put the game behind them. And I couldn’t, I could not- Yep … relate to that mentality in any way, shape, or form. I just didn’t, I just didn’t understand it at all at the time. And as time goes on, you realize that it’s not the way that I would handle it, but it might be mentally more healthy to be able to move on.

Now, again, there’s at some point you have to go back and reflect and do all the things to be able to- Yes … prepare and get yourself ready to go in the next game. But it- it’s not necessary for every single person on your team to be brooding for the next 36 hours about the game that-

…

[00:27:49] Mike Klinzing: You just lost.

I’m not sure how healthy, how healthy- Yeah … that was or that is for anybody. But again, it’s just interesting. Generationally it’s different. There’s a whole lot of things that kinda go into that. But I did have a hard time adjusting to that. And that is one thing, I think with AAU, that you have to be able to play and the game’s over, and good or bad, you have to put it behind you ’cause there’s another game coming.

[00:28:10] Denny McDonnell: Yep.

[00:28:10] Mike Klinzing: And I know that sometimes coaches, we think that maybe that cuts down on the competitiveness, right? That who cares if I lose this game, I’m going to Subway at, for lunch, and then we’re going to play again at 2:00. So- … what’s it matter if I win this game at 10? And I do think that kids who are competitive, and those that aren’t-

[00:28:27] Denny McDonnell: Yes

[00:28:27] Mike Klinzing: probably aren’t- Yeah … regardless of the situation. I do think maybe when we, you and I were kids, we were in more competitive situations just because, again, we were playing backyard football or we were playing-

[00:28:38] Denny McDonnell: Yeah …

[00:28:38] Mike Klinzing: running bases. Yeah. Or we were playing whatever it was, I think there was just more opportunities to compete without parents around, without adults around.

Yeah. And you kinda learned what it was like to compete just against other kids without people watching.

[00:28:52] Denny McDonnell: Yeah.

[00:28:52] Mike Klinzing: And nowadays, kids never play like that, or rarely- No … anyway. They’re always playing with a scoreboard and a parent and a coach and a referee and all those kinds of things. So again, it’s just interesting how the world of basketball, and sports in general, have changed for kids since the time when you and I are growing up in the ’70s and ’80s versus kids that- Yeah

are growing up today. It’s just a, it’s just a completely different world. So let me circle back to when you’re in college and just your thought process in terms of while you were playing, was there a thought that, “Hey, at some point I want to get into coaching”? Were you strictly focused on being a player?

When did the idea of, “Hey, maybe at some point along the line in my life I want to be a coach,” when did that kinda cross over your mind- Sure … and when did you start thinking about it?

[00:29:41] Denny McDonnell: I think, and again, like it’s not positional, but as a point guard and I had to play because s- cerebral because I didn’t have all of the other tools that a lot of guys had.

And so I think out-thinking things and understanding where we have an advantage was something that I was able to pick up. I had an opportunity after I’d graduated, an opportunity to be the assistant coach at Buena Vista and head JV. And I chose a business path. So I was in business for 20 years.

I was a district sales manager for a retailer. Didn’t get back into coaching. 40 years old is when I started back coaching. And it was always in the back of my head that y- I’m going to– I know at some point in time this is going to happen. And so the opportunity came about. I just turned 40 and that was where I had the opportunity.

Des Moines North in the Metro is one of the schools that’s 95% free and reduced lunch. And so I got connected with the head coach there, Coach Chad Ryan, who’s the athletic director there now but was a great guy and understood the landscape of where he was coaching, and I just really gravitated towards that.

And so not only working with kids that wanted to get better at basketball, but kids that maybe didn’t have it as well as I did growing up. And so those things for me, that North High experience was really meaningful for me in terms of not just the coaching, but understanding people. And I think when you combine that from a business background to dealing with kids that don’t have necessarily all the same things, I’ve had a heart for kids and a heart for coaching.

You don’t always get both of those things. I’m lucky that way. You might get one or the other but I was fortunate enough to have both. So I was two different stints as an assistant at Des Moines North but I think that, that’s where I was like, “Okay this is going to be it from now on.”

[00:31:31] Mike Klinzing: So you felt like it was the connection with the kids as much as it was…

Obviously, the basketball piece of it probably is what first draws you back, right? Yep. I want to get back involved in the game. Yep. But then once you’re there, it was the connection with the kids is what I hear you saying.

[00:31:44] Denny McDonnell: So it was interesting because as I got involved with them, I did a summer camp thing with them, and they had an opport- an a volunteer assistant job.

So I took the volunteer one. I was going to get my master’s at that time, so it worked out well. So then as things start to progress, they have an opening for it was basically a para, right? So I went from my six-figure income to $12.50 an hour, and it wa- I couldn’t have been happier. It was really meaningful to be able to work with kids that really struggled in the classroom, and then how those things transfer over, and the number of stories and things that you went through with high school players at that time which are different than what suburban kids would go through.

And that was eye-opening, number one. But number two, that is where I realized from not just a coaching standpoint, but from an individual standpoint, there’s kids that I have scheduled workouts with that we don’t work out because they’ve had something tough going on, and we spend an hour talking about what’s going on.

And so those things those are very meaningful and those fill my buckets. Just with the age that I have and being a dad you can be a little bit of that father figure in some of those scenarios we went from the second year– The first year I was there, that was the first year that we had won, that North High School had won double digit, had double-digit wins.

It was really not a great program, and so we had about three or four kids that really loved to play, and so we were open in a gym all the time. And so by the time then that they got to be seniors we were about two points away from the state tournament, which I think we would have had a really good shot at winning it.

But all of that development, and so what’s hard now in today’s world where everything is self-gratification, like if you have a team that just wins 10 games and that’s really good for you, like those kids, if you’re a good player you’re probably looking to transfer. Like you’re probably thinking, “Where else can I go?”

And so again, at that time, that’s 2011, ’12, ’13, right around in there, like those scenarios, you didn’t have any of that stuff. So like you just kept working. And so to be able to see kids mature not only as basketball players but as people, and being able to graduate and being the first kid in their family to graduate high school, like some of those things are very real, and it is not a scenario.

This is one of the things that I always struggled with as I was coaching in that community, is that people had always thought like that parents weren’t involved and I– that couldn’t be more… i’m sure that’s true in some situations, but I had a father, single dad, he had three boys and he worked 65 hours a week as a line cook.

So yeah, he wasn’t home a lot. But you know what? He was paying his mortgage. He was making sure his food– his kids had food on the table. And so he was as great a parent as you could get, but you didn’t see him except for games. So being able to plug some of those gaps were things that, that I really enjoyed there.

That was a pretty big experience, not just from a basketball perspective, but from a life perspective for me

[00:34:46] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, I do think that this is something that I’ve said repeatedly on the podcast, Denny, that it, what I love about basketball and what I love about the coaching, no matter what, how, no matter how you define coaching, whether you’re talking about coaching a high school team, whether you’re talking about coaching in college, whether you’re talking about working with players at camp, whether you’re talking about training one-on-one, whatever it is that you’re doing, right?

That you get to use the game of basketball as the vehicle to be able to do and impart some of those lessons that you’re talking about, or to be able to have an impact on some kids who maybe don’t have as many other people in their life impacting them in a positive way. And there’s not very many people, professions that have the opportunity- Yes

to use something that they love to be able to do that. And I always think, again, that’s just such a privilege to be able to use the game as a coach, again, however you want to define coach, but to be able to then utilize the game of basketball to be able to have an impact on, on, on the young people that you’re in front of every single day.

And to me, there’s noth- there’s nothing more valuable than that, that we can do. So when you think about your experiences at the high school level, and you’ve had varied experiences, and you’ve been with both the boys and the girls-

…

[00:36:00] Mike Klinzing: What do you think as you look back on your time as an assistant coach at the high school level, what makes for a good high school assistant coach?

A- over your experiences, both from what you learned yourself, but also what you saw from other assistants in the programs that you worked f- with, what does a good assistant coach at the high school level look like?

[00:36:19] Denny McDonnell: I will tell you this, you don’t really figure it out until you’re a head coach.

Because then it’s really easy- True … to define. So I had… I was four years at two different high schools as a high school coach. And so as you are now in charge and you’re picking, staff and those types of things, I think that as I was younger, I think that, You maybe don’t understand what exactly a head coach needs, because I think sometimes it’s difficult to verbalize, and everybody’s strengths are different.

I, from a college standpoint, synergy drove me nuts. I had the worst time figuring out how to dice up film, how to do all of that stuff. So there’s some of those things that you have to work through. But I think, above anything else, when I think about Coach Jones Kyle Jones is our head coach at Simpson College in Indianola he is very good at understanding what you’re good at, and then those are the things that he asks you to do.

And so y- again, the … And being older and managing a business and being a head coach, you start seeing things like, okay, you need to anticipate. I need to know things or do things before he’s asking me to do them. And one of the things that I’ve been blessed with is, and my daughter says this all the time, that even though you’re 57, you still speak teenager.

And so being able to connect with some of those kids in that level ha- has made a really big difference. But again, we had a kid that was, this kid from Australia, and so for spring break, what’s a kid from Australia do for spring break in Iowa? And so I remember going to, to Kyle our head coach, and I was like what are we doing with him over spring break?”

And he’s what do you mean?” I’m like I’m sure he’s not going home. Are we going to … is anybody going to be around that he can hang out with him?” And last thing you want to do is leave an Australian kid by himself all week at spring break. So just little things, almost more personnel things is just a little bit of where I am, I’m good at those things.

And the X’s and O’s things, that all comes up and it’s fluid and, those are things that I think you can work through. But the people part of it, I think is the most important because doesn’t matter what you draw up, if you don’t have kids that are bought in or understand not only just what to do, but why they’re doing it, I think those are things that I can help fill in those gaps a little bit.

So those are things that like, as practice is going on, I’m in the ear of somebody talking about this, right? Or we’re pulling them over and I can tell they’re not practicing well. I can remember swatting a kid on the butt and being like, “What’s your deal today?” And so he’s “What are you talking about?”

And I’m like, “This is 50% of what you normally give.” And I can say that because we have the relationship and he knows I’m not picking at him, I’m talking about behavior. I’m not saying you’re not a good dude. We’re talking about behavior. So those kind of things I think are meaningful and helpful.

But I think being able to anticipate things that y- from a head coach perspective now, and even in the college, e- from a fundraising to all of the meetings and in addition to the recruiting and there’s just so much that they have to take. I’ve tried to be a little bit more proactive in seeing things before they happen so then those are things maybe we can cut off

[00:39:16] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, and that makes sense, right?

A- as you get more experience, you’re able to see what those things are. And as you said, when you’re a head coach you become, it becomes clear the things that you need from your assistant, ’cause all of a sudden, all these things are coming at you from different directions. And I love how you talked about not necessarily all basketball stuff, right?

There’s a lot of things that have- Yeah … to get done that have nothing to do with coaching basketball, and a good assistant is going to try to grab some of those things or cut them off at the pass- … so that maybe they never even get to the head coach’s desk. “Oh, yeah, Coach, I already took care of that.”

Yes. And that has to happen through, as you said, experience and anticipation and being able to understand what it is that you can do to make your head coach’s job easier, which I think always is, if you want to give a blanket statement that I’ve heard over and over again, you have the loyalty piece of an assistant coach- Yes

and then you have the- Yep … then you have the do what it takes to help your program, whatever that looks like. Yeah, there’s a job description. There’s things that you’re asked to do. Yeah. But then there’s things that you have to figure out “Hey, what, where can I add value here without being asked?” And I think that’s what, that’s ultimately what the best assistant coaches end up doing.

Yeah. Let me jump over. Before we get to the transition for you from high school to college and how that opportunity came to you, let’s bring in the 4V Legacy stuff. When do you get started with that? How… W- were you doing it, the training informally first, and then you’re like, “Hey, this is starting to become something.

Now I have to put it together on a more form- formal basis.” Just give me the genesis for how that business started.

[00:40:45] Denny McDonnell: A- and again, it was a side hustle. So it was a deal at the local gym that I worked out at all the time. I did a camp there with them ’cause they’d never done anything like that. And I was coaching high school as an assistant at that time.

And then I s- that started picking up a little bit. And so the number one thing that all trainers will tell you is that if you don’t have your own gym, it’s a struggle. And so I didn’t have my own gym, so I was always relying on where can I get space, where can I coordinate the schedules, those types of things.

So it was probably about 28- 2018 or 2019, I started doing it just on the side. 2021 my dad gets sick, and he ends up passing. My dad grew up on a ranch in Gordon, Nebraska spent the summers there, and our family brand for cattle was 4V Bar. So it was the 4 and the V and the bar, so everything was connected, right?

And so I can remember talking with him as he was in the hospital, and so he we started talking about it and so we came up with the name of 4V Legacy. And so he had passed, and so that’s where the name came from. So I get questions all the time of “What are the four Vs?” Yeah, there aren’t any four Vs.

It’s our family brand- … and it’s based off of my dad and how he treated people and just how he lived his life. So it’s paying homage to who he is. So it starts small, just everybody does, and everybody has dreams. You’re going to build a gym. And so then I find a spot I’ve got plans drawn up.

I’ve got the land. COVID hits. Now my $1.2 million building is 3.6, and at 50-whatever years old I was at that time, I’m not taking that on because I don’t want to train 60 hours a week to be able to break even we pulled the plug on all of that, and so then it- I’ve made the rounds. I’ve worked with several AAU programs that are in the area, done skills camps with a lot of those, and then currently I’m working out of the Waukee Jam.

It’s an AAU program based out of Waukee, Iowa. And the owner has just been very gracious to me, and so I rent the gym space there. And so I’ve got north of about 60 players right now that I would work with individually. And so it’s been interesting how the evolution comes because as you’re planning workouts for now an eight-year-old kid, and now you’re doing it for a junior in college, so again, you have to dig into that stuff a little bit.

But now with YouTube and Instagram and all of the things that you can dig into, you look at what the kid’s deficiencies are, and then you figure out how you can still keep that fun, you can still keep that positive for that eight-year-old kid, but then you’re going to work a little differently with those kids that you have in college.

Some of the fu- I’ve got four, I think they’re, I think they’re between third and sixth grade, but I’ve got four of them that are like almost every Saturday at 9:00 in the morning, and they think this is just the greatest thing they’ve ever done in their life. You couldn’t start a Saturday…

i’ll usually go 8:00 to noon during that time, and so usually I start with them. And so those things are fantastic just because it’s you now just made a left-handed layup and this girl’s jumping up and down screaming. It’s the best thing that’s ever happened. There’s a little bit of a an adjustment when it comes to the age.

But then it got to the point where now I have, a lot of high school kids, and I’ve got kids that are playing college elsewhere that, that will work out with me. And I think it’s because a lot of what I’ve done is just taken from what I’ve learned as a player and then as a coach, and then we just talk about that stuff.

You don’t need 16 different moves and 32 dribbles at the top to be able to make something happen. And I’ve been very scaled down. We talk balance and shooting, balance and defense, balance and finishing, everything’s two feet. Like, all of those things that everybody is now talking about I’ve been doing those things because those were things that I had seen really good players w- are doing.

So you look at Brunson now and everybody’s everybody’s trying to copy what he does. He’s not fancy. If you ever watch him, we talk about simple is better all the time. He’s got a counter, he’s got a couple things he likes to do, but it’s off two feet and it’s in the paint and those are things that I just consistently help young people with, especially because I didn’t have any of that, right?

And so they’re watching Instagram at all of these NBA players that are doing all this stuff that they’re never going to be able to do, and so now we’re trying to copy that stuff. And I’m like no, we don’t need that. You need to work on your crossover before we work on anything else.” And then Steph Curry ruined it for all of us because now everybody wants to shoot threes that have no business shooting threes.

So we have that age group where they’re like, anywhere depending on male, female, but you have that 11 that are 8 to 10, 8 to 11, and so e- everything’s starting over here, and there’s a twist, and then we’re shooting it from down at our waist. And you have to be very careful on how we critique those things because those are the things that they’re watching and they’re thinking, “This is what I’m going to be trained on.”

Whereas we have to scale those things back a little bit. I usually will do two or three camps a year. I was really excited about this, the one I just did. It was two or three weeks ago. We called it Elite Court Experience, and what I did is I chopped up a whole bunch of synergy stuff, and so– and I limited it.

It was supposed to be capped at 10 high school players, male and female. I ended up taking 12 because I had two that were really good that I knew that would be able to catch up And so then w- the first day was all on finishing. And so I went through and clipped all kinds of things finishing. A spin move the correct way, the counter, the pro hop, like all of those things.

So we go over, we watch it on… I have TV rolled out right on the court. We’re watching what they’re doing, we’re watching Caitlin Clark on her step back, whatever. And so then we go teach it, and so then they rep it, and then they have to go against live defense with it, and then they have to go against live defense with a secondary defender.

But the just in, in the world we are today on how much everything is video driven, for those kids to be able to see that, and now we go talk about it, like there isn’t a high school kid that wasn’t there that didn’t have a spin move. But if you can’t get your foot all the way around, you’re going to end up shooting a tough shot.

So we broke down some of those real small micro skills for them to be able to follow. But that was probably, we did three days. So we did one day on finishing, we did one day on shooting, creating space off of your shot, and the last one we did all things ball screen. And that was probably my favorite because you’re now teaching high school kids, this is a drop coverage, here’s what you do.

If they want to blitz you, here’s what you do. If they’re going to switch, here’s what you do. So we’re watching all that stuff on film, and then they have to read it in their actual live play. So it was, I think it was more fun. It was definitely more fun for me because then I can be like, “Okay, this isn’t Coach Denny saying, ‘This is what you need to do.’

This is Jalen Brunson right now doing what I’m telling you to do.” And the kids, they just, they loved it. So then the evaluations that came out of that were very specific because we worked on very specific things. So I think all of those kids that were at that one really found value in that. And so I d- you know, that’ll be one I’ll do probably every summer.

And again it just was, I think, hugely valuable for kids to understand not only just some of the concepts they’re watching, but you’re hearing a coach, a college coach explain it. So again, you’re getting terminology and you’re getting understanding that is going to be a little bit different just because of the level that I get to coach at.

[00:47:57] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, and it’s really cool. I the a- the ability to use film and to e- even take it a step further and use film right there on the floor, where you can look at it and then immediately step two steps to your right and be trying- Yep … to do the things that you’ve seen on film. There’s a tremendous amount of value in that, without question.

‘Cause again, as you said, kids are watching whatever, whether it’s TikTok or YouTube- Yep … or Reels or wherever they are, r- Twitter, wherever they are consuming their content, right? They’re seeing all that stuff, but they’re not conceptualizing it in the same way that you are as a coach, and then you can translate to that to them so that they can then see, “Okay, yeah, I’m watching this, but what are the technical aspects of this that I have to be able to master in order to be able to actually perform this on the floor against a live defense?”

Which, going back to what you said earlier, it has to translate what it is that you’re doing. Yep. So for you as the trainer Looking at film a- and prepping that for whether it’s for a group session like you talked about or for an individual, just tell me how much film are you going through? What’s your process for looking at film and grabbing clips and taking things that you like that you know you can teach to kids who are obviously not playing in the NBA, but-

Adapting those skills to the various levels of kids that you coach. How much time are you spending with the film and what does your process look like for picking stuff out that’s valuable?

[00:49:21] Denny McDonnell: And again, like now that I’m a little more seasoned in it, like Synergy just makes things so darn easy.

So again, I went to Brunson and I went and I looked through all of his two-point drive left finishes, and so these were the makes. And so we click on those and I’d run through them, and then we’d pull those things out. So I think I had probably… And I didn’t do a lot. It was maybe 10 to 12 clips each day.

So like we’re not watching an hour’s worth of film. Like it is, they’re short snippets, and then we’re right into it. So it probably took me It probably took me six hours to put that all together. But again, that was the first time I’d ever done that, and so I was trying to be really picky on what I was taking because, when you’re watching Division I athletes, they’re so good and they’re just so athletic.

Yeah. And they do things that I could teach you, we could talk about this all day long, and you’re never going to do it, and nor am I going to be able to do it or teach it. So I had to be picky on some of those things that I was like, “This is of value because there’s not a lot of dribbles. This is of value because you’re playing through contact.”

So those types of things are where I looked at it. And then went to shooting stuff. I just pulled out guys that had shot really well from three, right? And I’m not watching catch and shoot stuff. I’m watching how are you creating space, is there a shot fake?

Is there a side step? What are you doing? And then we broke down and we looked at their footwork, and so again, that’s– kids don’t talk about that or think about that nearly enough, right? And so we talk about what’s the footwork for this because that’s where it’s all got to start. So again, as I’m looking through all these clips there’s some of these guys that do this stuff that’s just amazing that you’re like, “Yeah, we’re not going to– That’s an amazing clip, but that will never work for this.”

So that probably took me longer than what I’d anticipated it, it would have. But being able to see that and go through all of that, you s- you recognize things even in college players where you’re like, “Oh, that was definitely off balance. That was definitely not…” So it’s good for me to be able to see this isn’t all– everybody’s not perfect on this, and so that’s easy to translate to them, be like: Look, we’re not going to expect you to look like Caitlin Clark or Jalen Brunson tomorrow, right?

We’re going to take some of the things that they find valuable, and we’re going to plug them into what works for you. And so we spent an all of those times doing that, but it was probably, that was probably a solid six hours. It was probably two hours of prep for each day. That’s probably about

[00:51:49] Mike Klinzing: I think…

Yeah, and I think that the approach that you’re taking with finding the things that are translatable, finding the things that are, you said the word simple, which I think is critical, right? Because so often we go into a gym and we see the seven cones, and we’re going- … behind our back at this one, or we’re going between the legs at this one, or we’re crossing over here.

And it’s really interesting, Denny. I had… whenever I whenever I talk to someone who does training I always go back to a conversation that I had with Mike Procopio, who at the time I talked to him, he was working with the Dallas Mavericks. And one of the things that he said to me is, the higher the level of basketball that you go up, the more specialized your skill set-

[00:52:33] Denny McDonnell: Yes

[00:52:33] Mike Klinzing: has to become.” Yes. Because there are very few players, and let’s just start with the NBA, there are very few players that the coach gives them the ball and says, “Hey, LeBron, here you go. Go do- Yeah … whatever you want, and you… It’s carte blanche. You have the right to do.” Even not every NBA team has a guy that gets to do that.

I mean- Yeah … there are some, but not every m- not every team has it. And then you think about a player transitioning from high school to college. In high school, maybe there’s one kid on every team that kinda is the best player, that gets to do what they want. But guess what? That player, when they go to college- Yeah

it’s not happening. No. And so you have to learn to be able to play. And so what Mike told me back at the time, that I thought was really profound, was, by the time these guys get to the NBA, like we have to sit them down and be like, “Y- you’re no longer working on your all-around game. Not that you can’t try to expand what you do- Yeah

and expand your role. But if you’re here to be an offensive rebounder, then we have to work to make you the best possible offensive rebounder that you can be, ’cause that’s how you’re going to continue to earn a paycheck.” Yeah. And so I think that a lot of times it gets lost in the training process of… And I think, look, the younger you go you want to develop all-around players.

It’s not like you’re going to be like- Yeah … “Hey, this kid’s only going to be whatever. We only want them to shoot threes when they’re 12 years old.” You want to develop their wh- their whole skill set. But it is interesting that you don’t need a bazillion different moves. I tell kids all the time, like if I’m working with them, like really the best move that you can have is no move at all.

It’s just a straight line drive past somebody-

[00:54:11] Denny McDonnell: Yes. Yes …

[00:54:11] Mike Klinzing: and you get to the basket, where there’s no change of direction. If you can just beat a guy with your first step then, we don’t need all this other stuff. You just- No … get by the guy, and then you figure out how you’re going to finish. And so many times I think that stuff gets lost.

It gets lost to parents. It goes back to the- Yes … parent education piece of-

[00:54:29] Denny McDonnell: Yep …

[00:54:30] Mike Klinzing: a parent has to understand that what you as a trainer is teaching, that- We’re trying to teach them stuff that they’re actually going to do in a game. This stuff over here that might look like we’re doing a lot- Nope … is not stuff that actually is going to ever translate to a game.

So I love what you said about just, again, picking out the simple, right? And taking the time to watch six hours of video and figure it out and find those 10 or 12 clips- … in that six hours of video that are going to be valuable for the kids that you’re working with, and that’s not easy to do. Of course, film has just become the greatest teacher.

[00:55:04] Denny McDonnell: Oh, man.

[00:55:05] Mike Klinzing: It, it- Doesn’t lie … it’s to

[00:55:06] Denny McDonnell: be able- Film does not

[00:55:07] Mike Klinzing: lie. Yeah. To be able to have, to be able to have the example of watching a Brunson or a Caitlin Clark, there’s that piece of it. And then there’s the piece of it when you’re coaching your team- Yes … or when you’re coaching a kid that you’re training, if you’re watching their film- it’s easy to go to it and be like, “Look, here’s exactly what we’re talking about,” or, “Here’s an opportunity where you could have executed this that we’ve been working on, and instead you did this. And so here’s where the choice went wrong,” or whatever it may be. But again, you’re using that film to be able to be able to have an impact on players and for them to see it visually.

As you said, the film doesn’t lie. It’s all captured right there for you to be able to be able to show it to them, and then hopefully for the player to be able to internalize that and then-

[00:55:47] Denny McDonnell: Yeah …

[00:55:48] Mike Klinzing: and then move forward. So let me ask you… Go ahead. Did you have something to respond to

[00:55:53] Denny McDonnell: that? Yeah. The only other thing I was going to share on that Is we talk about menus.

Every player’s got a menu, right? And so it might be you can shoot your mid-range pull-up because you’re good at it. Now, that might not be in Billy’s menu. Billy might be catch and shoot only and he needs to Barkley in the paint, right? We will have for our college guys here’s your menu right here where you need to be really good.

And as you said, we’re still going to work on some of those other things, but it we had a point guard that has to get a float. He just, he’s not big enough. He’s have to get his floater, right? So that is just the amount of time that we spend on that, and that’s when we talk about, boring is useful.

And yeah, y- you’re right. But you know what? If you want to score and be successful, you need this, and right now you’re making four out of 10, not being guarded. We got work to do here. So those menus I think are really good as we share those with guys, and we’re not saying if you’re a guy that doesn’t say shoot threes, you don’t ever shoot one.

But we know and you know what are the things that we need you to be good at. And so again, as that level goes up, I understand that completely because then you’re on to, okay, so if it’s catch and shoot in the corner, if it’s creating space off of your drive. So whatever those things are, then that’s what we ramp up.

So as you were talking about the gentleman that had said that that makes complete sense to me because you’re right. As you’re younger, y- you need all aspects, but the higher you get, y- you’re not going to be doing all of that extra stuff. Yeah. We, I, I- Yeah … i’m going to talk about it again, but, like Shot fake, your jab, all of those things, if you can create space without burning a dribble, you have so much of a better opportunity for a straight line drive.

And that’s what I tell these high school guys all the time. We don’t need to be extra fancy on all of this inverted. And that’s what sometimes drives me crazy about trainers is we’re going to go an inverted to the, and I’m like, do- everybody’s got a different name anyway. Just look at what it is and does that fit with what you’re trying to do?

Because if you don’t have a shot fake that goes to your forehead on the outside, you’re not going to create any space going to the basket. So I talk about those little things an awful lot, and I think that is one thing that has helped in my training especially, is that when I talk about these things, they’re things that I can say, “Now this is where in the game, this is where you’re going to use this.

You’re not going to use this here. This is not what you’re going to do.” I was working a kid out today, and so we were going shot fake, one dribble pull up, and so he put this little sidestep hesi thing into it, and I was like, “Okay, that was good, but let’s cut out the hesi.” And he goes, “No hesi?” And I go, “No hesi, ever.”

This is a kid that’s a catch and shoot three guy. What? He’s not going anywhere. No one’s biting on that. It’s been fun to be able to talk about those things, but be very basic and intentional. But that’s the stuff where it’s boring. That’s not sexy. That’s not fun. No one likes shot fake jab to a straight line drive.

That’s not fancy. But it’s two points, and that’s what’s most important

[00:58:50] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, there’s no doubt about that. How do you m- make sure that the kid you’re working with, especially if it’s an older kid, like a high school player, and the parent understands the value of what you’re doing when it, quote, “looks simple” versus the guy across town who has 49 different props out there and all these different things, whatever.

Yeah. How do you make sure that you … What does that conversation look like with the parents and the players to help them to understand your philosophy and why what you’re doing is, again, translating to games as opposed to what some of the gimmicks that they might see elsewhere?

[00:59:30] Denny McDonnell: And I think that is where

That, that has been a little bit of a difficult conversation in that I just … when I start working with someone new, I just ask, “What are you expecting out of this?” Because again, there are the trainers that they have 500,000 followers, and it’s look at me. It’s not look at the kid, it’s look at me.

And so I struggle with those because I’m never going to be that guy. If you go to my Instagram, which is 4VLegacy there’s maybe a dozen videos in eight years. That’s just, I’m not I’m about the player, I’m not about, hey, look at me. And so I tell them that upfront you’re going to see things that seem pretty basic, but if you watch how your kid does it, if they’re not good at basics, we don’t need to be doing all of this other stuff.

The ones I love is the … I have an upcoming training and I’ll get a text message that’s this long of all the things that they want their kid to work on. I’m like, “That kid can’t make a free throw yet.” Yeah. So like, why don’t we just be pers- take things into perspective and see what makes sense and what doesn’t?

So I just always tell people I have a motive in everything that I do. All of our training, everything that I do has a motive. And so if you’re not sure what that is, you can ask me. Tell parents all the time, if you want to stay and watch, please do. If you want to drop them off I don’t care. I actually like it when they stay because then at the end, then I can talk about, okay, so now when he’s playing I already told him that’s the stuff he’s have to be doing.

So I’ll have parents that will text me during AAU games that are like, “She used the shot fake underneath and it worked.” So some of those things which are great, right? And those don’t happen all that often, but when they do it’s pretty special. But I just, I’m never going to be the guy that looks for the next gimmick, right?

I, you had that one time Kyrie Irving was dribbling with grocery sacks on a ball, and so then I saw that show up in a gym and I’m like, y- we’re talking about a fifth grade kid here. Can we just be realistic in what are the things that, that he needs to be working on? So some of those conversations where their perspective of where their kid is probably more here.

And so those sometimes get a little bit challenging because you have to pick and choose a little bit on what you’re going to talk about. But I think again, I just keep talking about are they finding success? Are things going better? Are you seeing things that you’re seeing us do when we work out? So as, again, I go back to translate, right?

If people are going to throw money hand over fist they’re going to expect to see some value out of it. And that is where, again, that, that’s just a question I ask is it getting better? If it’s not getting better, then that’s a different conversation and we need to look at that more closely.

But it… Where I get it a lot, especially with younger players like middle school, high school, is they all want to talk about the elbow pops a little bit here.” And then I’m always like, “Does it go in?” “W- well, yeah.” I’m like, “Then don’t mess with it,” right? I think about golf all the time, right?

Nobody’s got the same swing and no one swings like professionals, but if it goes straight, we’re probably going to feel pretty good. So as we’re shooting or as we’re working on things like, again, if it’s crazy stuff, we’re shooting with two hands, then maybe we’ll adjust that. But some of that stuff I’m like, they’ll figure it out.

They have the understanding, and then we’ll just keep building it as they get stronger. So those are a couple of the things that I have to be a little bit careful with as I talk with parents.

[01:02:46] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. The physiology of someone’s shot, I think is interesting just to look at the mechanics of how different players shoot and it’s always you can make small little tweaks and things and again, depending upon the age.

But it’s-

[01:02:59] Denny McDonnell: Yeah …

[01:02:59] Mike Klinzing: as you said if you’re having success already with it A lot of times messing with it tr- in the idea that you’re going to make it better not only makes it worse in the short term, but sometimes makes it worse in the long ter- Yes … in the long term too. Yeah. There’s no doubt about that. So it’s- I’ve got a,

[01:03:15] Denny McDonnell: I have a college-

[01:03:15] Mike Klinzing: It’s a

[01:03:15] Denny McDonnell: fine

[01:03:16] Mike Klinzing: line

I’m work-

[01:03:16] Denny McDonnell: yeah. I have a college kid I’m working with now, and his shot’s flat. Shoots threes really well, but he’s flat. So if he misses, it’s a hard rebound every time. The guy’s never had a soft bounce up from three ever. So we started talking about we just need a little bit more arch, so we need a little bit more elbow to your eyebrow.

So we talk a little bit about some of those things. And then he shot me a text and said I shot really well the other day, and it was because I knew I was using more legs, so I had more arc,” and- … some of those things. But those are like, when they get to those college age stuff, like that, you might fine-tune a few things and normally it’s legs.

Like 90% of it when I’m working with shooters that are college or above, it’s like where’s the mechanics of the lift out of your hip into your shot? And so those are things that I, just ’cause I’ve been around it so long, I, you can see those things. But yeah, you’re right. You have to be- Yeah, absolutely

really particular on those bigger, on those higher end guys.

All right, tell me about the opportunity at Simpson. I, it was been ever since I can remember I wanted to coach in college. And the rap always with high school coaches is they don’t translate great to college coaches ’cause they can’t recruit, right? I te- I speak teenager, so all I needed was a chance.

And going from high school at a very high level to a college game, you think you know an awful lot in high school until you start coaching in college, and then things are substantially different because of how things are structured and not just the mechanics of who you’re recruiting, but how that fits into your scheme.

And so I, I’ve always been a big fan of practice, probably because I didn’t get to play that much when I was younger. So I always loved practice. And so for those things, like whether we’re working through, what our preparation is going to be for practice that day, but I always try and figure out how can I make a difference in this one with this kid, and how can I make a difference with this one?

And when you start looking at all of the film and the margin for error in college basketball is… And it, on up, I know it translates up, but your margin of error is like this. And you look at our first year, but we in here, this is going to be our third year as a staff at Simpson we lost by pounds.

We didn’t lose by points. We were thin. We were small. And so trying to figure out a scheme on where we can make some differences there. Now we’ve upgraded and we’ve got some pretty nice pieces, and so now you look at how are we now attacking instead of how are we trying to survive. And so the planning and the scouting and that stuff I, that, I just really enjoy that because that’s the preparation piece that I always…

That was where I spent most of my time. I wasn’t getting a lot of game action. I think that, One of, I think one of the things that surprised me the most was that I think I expected maybe a little bit different attitude as they came into work. And again it’s changed over the years, I just think about I never had to be asked twice to come to an open gym.

And as those pieces and as you’ve upgraded through your recruiting, now you have those guys that, you don’t have to worry about that stuff anymore.

So that was a little bit of a like from my perspective, I’m like, “You’re playing in college. You have to love this.” You’re pl- you’re playing at D fi- D3, it’s not because you’re uber skilled, okay?

It’s because you love the game, you have some skill but it’s playing big time basketball. And co- division III basketball is really good. And I think about Kyle, where he came from in Wisconsin, you have all of those state schools, Eau Claire, Stevens Point, Whitewater, Oshkosh. Those are programs that have been around forever and are hugely successful.

And so as we look at the conference that we’re in compared to that, like it’s a little bit different landscape here. It’s almost if I don’t get a division I or division II, I’m going to go JUCO until I get my division I or division II, which maybe never is going to come. So that’s a little bit of the difference that when as I’m out talking to kids, because I just love the opportunity to play, right?

And maybe it’s because I wasn’t great and this was the only opportunity I was going to have. But being able to talk about, you want to be a big fish in a small pond, here’s your chance. You want to go and sit for a couple years, then yeah, maybe that’s what you want to do, and that’s great.

But so trying to understand the athlete these days is sometimes a little difficult, because I think that they’re hit with so many different things and we have, there’s NIL in our conference right now, so you’re dealing with that part as well. So it- you just really have to hone in on what is it exactly that the kid’s looking for.

And so I always take that back to education. What do you want to go into? How far away do you want to live from home? And what are your expectations as a player? So if we can have those conversations up front, that helps us understand a little bit like, this is a kid that’s probably on our radar, or this is a kid that is never going to play division III ’cause he’s too good for us.

He’ll go be in a fr- in a fraternity somewhere and just not play anymore. Like that’s his choice. So that’s a little bit of what’s been different. I’ve always been a defensive guy, and so with a lot of the actions offensively, Princeton and a lot of those things that people are running right now, like you don’t face that stuff in high school.

And if you do, it’s watered down. You’re not getting to the level that we’re getting. You’re getting three actions here and, if that doesn’t happen, then you have this backside action. So all of that stuff going on at once was a little bit difficult for me to pick up in the beginning. So that was something I definitely had to adapt to

[01:08:39] Mike Klinzing: The relationship side of it, which is something that we’ve talked about throughout our conversation tonight, how is building a relationship with a player as a high school coach similar and different to building a relationship with a player at the college level?

[01:08:56] Denny McDonnell: I think aga- it always goes back to the individual kid. So like I don’t know if I could give you just a blanket statement on that. I can tell you, you can definitely be more direct with college players. You have that high school connection in there where they’re going to go home and tell dad that you yelled at him for something, and now dad thinks you’re picking on their kid.

It’s- … because three times in a row he let his guy drive past him. So you know, you can be more direct with those college guys. But again, they’ve been in basketball long enough, they don’t need to sugarcoat it. Like they’ve been– They know. Like you can just say “Here’s what I need you to do,” or, “I can tell that things aren’t going well in this class.

Tell me what’s going on.” So some of those pieces that you can just dive into rather than having to set it up with how are we going to ask it, those sorts of things, so I think being more direct. I also think that you’re now talking about people that are maturing into men, and so the conversations that you’re having outside of basketball are different than what you’re having in high school.

And so it’s now it’s, “What’s your major?” “I don’t have any idea what I want to do.” “Just broke up with my girlfriend who I’ve dated since she was 15.” So you have now all of these things, it’s not just high school problems, but now you’re starting to face some real world problems. “I don’t know if I’m going to have money for tuition next semester.”

So like those types of things are real world conversations, and I think that’s part of being a little bit older and having a little bit more life experience, I can help some of those guys understand that the sky’s not falling, okay. Come up with a plan. You can fix, you can work through this.

But in some of these scenarios you got a freshman in college that hasn’t been away from home, that’s from small town, wherever, and now he’s not playing as much as he thought he was, and school is hard, and so now you have a kid that’s like in disarray and has nothing to do really with basketball yet.

So some of those conversations are, I will have– I will definitely have more of those conversations than I would have with high school, just because I think a lot of those high school kids… N- My Des Moines North was different because that was a different demographic, but it’s the same kind of thing, right?

Your buddies, you’re hanging out with your friends, who’s dating this girl. Like it, that’s all the same. This is some bigger issues for them. That’s a good question. I’ve never been asked that

[01:11:09] Mike Klinzing: before.

[01:11:10] Denny McDonnell: Yeah, it makes sense.

[01:11:11] Mike Klinzing: It makes sense. Just in terms of, again, as we mature the problems become bigger.

It’s always, I remember people telling me when I was a parent, like when your kids are little, the problems are little, and they’re it’s you trying to get them to sleep or eat- Yeah … or whatever, or corral them, whatever. And then as they get bigger and they’re out in the world, then the problems that they face and the things that they bring to you are much bigger.

And so in the coaching world, it’s the same thing, right? Each, at each level, their life is expanding, and consequently those conversations and those relationships that you build with them Continue to expand a- and to grow as you go over time. How do you guys there at Simpson develop leaders in your program?

What’s the process for whether it’s identifying leaders, whether it’s building guys up who you see that leadership traits, those leadership traits in them? How do you develop leaders in your program?

[01:12:02] Denny McDonnell: It, and again, that is going to lead right into the biggest topic of any team and which is culture.

And, everybody has a belief in that. We did a book club. This is the second year in a row. Last year it was on the All Blacks, which is the Australian football team rugby, I think it is, but it, unbelievable character-building things. And so as we would have those and you’d have those discussions, you could see some of the depth in some of the guys that are talking, and so you could see that.

I just think, again the biggest challenge that I think we have at the college level is getting people to talk more on the floor, right? So if we get them to talk more off the court in a structured environment, that hopefully will translate. And we’ve done some of that. Again, we’ve had a young team, and so we had, some people that were older but weren’t necessarily, being leaders was not in their wheelhouse. Just because they were older doesn’t mean that makes them a leader. And we struggled with that a little bit to find who’s our voice, who on that team is the voice? And so I think now as you have those conversations, and that was part of what I loved as a head coach, is that every, during every free throw or anything I was always talking to a kid, and it was always about and it was, whatever that leader was on the team.

One year I had it, it was the center. The other year it was a five. The other year it was a point. Two years it was point guards. And so you’re having those conversations off on the side on what do you want to do here, and so making them think and making their verbalize it Which I’ve always learned, the hard way is that not just kids, but people will always remember their idea better than yours.

So if you can get them to formulate your idea with their words, home run. So that’s the dance- Yep … and that’s the trick. And so if you can help kids understand what your message is and then let them take it and talk about it that’s what we’ve opened up. And we’ve got some leadership stuff that’s coming back this year, which is nice because it’s probably the best maybe as a core.

I don’t think we’ve got just one. I think we’ve got two or three that are probably core guys that we could lean on for that role. But again, those are things that just naturally have surfaced. So I think there’s sometimes just because you’re older or you’ve been really good, that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re going to be a great leader.

And I think that goes back into coaching. Just because you were a great player, I don’t know if that necessarily means you’re a great coach. So those are things that you would have to work on and develop. And so I think those are some of the things that, that we’ve tried to do. The book club stuff has been nice because it gets them talking about things other than basketball or social media or school.

And so that’s where you really get a chance to see the depth on where some of these guys think

[01:14:37] Mike Klinzing: Yeah, I do think right at the college level you have that opportunity to be able to have a little bit more time that you can invest in things like that. Yeah. And again, guys are thinking a little bit deeper a- and when they’re in college a- and being able to process some of those situations and things that you can maybe bring up.

And then again, when you’re developing leaders on your team, then the goal clearly is to be able to help those kids to be able to bring those traits to the forefront, and then when you have good leaders in place, as especially at the Division III level where your contact as a staff is limited both- Yeah

while you’re in school, and certainly in the summertime. People think about- Yeah … all the Division I and Division II and the amount of access that coaches have to their players, and then Division III, obviously it’s almost the polar opposite. You got your- Yeah … you got your eight d- you got your eight days now, but other than that, you don’t really have much opportunity.

So it really- Nope … falls on the leaders of your program to be able to put some things together, to be able to make sure that everybody’s doing what they’re supposed to do in the off-season to, to come back ready to go for the next fall. Whether that be in the spring, whether that be in the summertime, whether that be getting the guys together in the fall to be able to play open gym or work out together- Yeah

whatever. To be able to have good leaders in place for your program I think is really critical, especially at the Division III level, just because again, of the limited access that you have as a coaching staff. So we’ve kinda bounced back and forth between your two lives as a, as a- Yeah … private individual trainer, and then first as a high school coach, and then as a college coach.

So as we get towards the end here, I want to ask you a final… I usually say it’s a two-part question, but yours is going to be a three-part question. Okay. All right. So if we… So we might have to, we might have to bounce back and forth, but so- Usually the question is, what do you see as being your biggest challenge?

But since you have two basketball lives here, I’m going to ask you for your biggest challenge in each one. So on the training side, what do you see as being your biggest challenge? And then on the college coaching side, what’s the biggest challenge there? And then I’ll save the third part. I’ll let you answer those two- Right

and then I’ll jump back in with the third part so we’re not trying to remember what that third part was.

[01:16:44] Denny McDonnell: Good. Good. I’ll t- I think I’ll take the training the piece first. And it comes down to gym space again, and as I said, I’ve been blessed with a lot of people that have been good to me for running gym space, and the Waukee Jam program has been top-notch, and that’s why they’re turning out great players.

But I think one of the things that you run into at 57 years old is how much time can you spend still doing this? And I love what I do, and but there are times when you’re like, the right knee doesn’t have a lot of cartilage left. And the challenge has been how do I continue to grow if it’s not just me?

And so I have four people that are in our 4V Legacy training piece, and so they are all kids that I either coached at one point in time or had trained. And so I’ve got two, two guys, Ryan Tomita I coached him in high school. He’s 27 now. He’s a kind of a mini me in that he loves kids and he just loves being in a gym, so he does a really nice job.

I’ve got another one, Ben Hoover, that I c- I worked with all through high school. He’s a crowd favorite at all of our camps. Paige Hilgerson she’s a girl that struggled with her shot for a long time and spent just countless numbers of hours in a gym. And then Lydia Smith is another one who’s a college basketball player at a rival college, Central College, that’s near us.

But all of those people have the number one thing that they understand that comes from me, and that is that we are player driven, and that is we’re not going to… It’s not going to be the video this, video that, like that. We’re just not going to do that. That’s not who I am, and that’s not what I want to be known for And having those four that have now helped with camp stuff, I have a couple that are going to help take on some training stuff for me.

So continuing to grow that when it’s not just me going to be in a gym. I went from, let’s see, yesterday was 8:00 to noon and then 4:00 to 6:00, and I’ll have anywhere between one and six kids during that time. And so I kinda have a, I have a Google Doc that they all sign up on, and then I share all the ages of the kids.

If your kid is 10 years old, you’re not going to sign him up to be with the kid who’s 18. So I’ve through process of trial and error, I’ve got that s- piece working well together now. But that’s where the growth is going to come from because as I get more involved with this college coaching, because the worst part is when you get into season at Simpson and I’m still having to train.

As a Division III assistant coach, you’re not making a lot. And so again, you’ve have to figure out how you do both. And so that’s one of the things that, that was the biggest struggle and that’s been probably the best thing. Those four individuals are the salt of the earth and just blessed that I have them.

But so that, that growth was definitely the number one. I think for Simpson As you look every year on how your role evolves, and your f- my first year there on the bench, like you’re getting blasted with stuff right and left, and you know the game and things that you want to comment on, but there are so many, there’s so much more depth to things that you don’t quite know yet.

And so I didn’t talk- … a whole lot unless spoken to, that, that first year. Last year allowed me to, again, because I was a part of the recruiting process for the guys that we brought in, now some of those relationships and some of the training stuff has gotten easier. So now as I look at how do we get into this third year, and that’s where now I’m to the point where I’m ju- I want to think about it in terms of I’m the head coach.

I’m not the head coach, but I want to think about it in those terms so that, again, I’m going to go back to what I talked about earlier, was trying to be able to anticipate. And so if we’re struggling offensively, if we’re struggling whatever it would be, like, I just want to start thinking about those things in terms of if I’m sitting at that seat to the right, like how am I handling this?

And so I’m not necessarily just waiting for direction anymore, and I feel like that was probably a year and a half in, that’s how I was. And so I think now that I’ve got a landscape on it and understand our players better and the game I think that will be the next step.

But obviously there’s a whole lot of things in there that I still have to learn, kyle does a really great job at what we do, and the… You probably know guys like this too, but like Kyle’s the guy that will never forget a game. Never forget a game. “Ah, that happened to us 2020, playing in Boston.

We were to the-” Yeah. Like he has that ju- I’m like, “I can’t remember what I had for breakfast yesterday, and you remember-” Yeah … “a 2020 game?” It’s like he never misses a beat with that stuff. But I think in terms of how I absorb what I’m learning and then how do I use that at a different level than where I’ve been at.

And so it’s that constant searching for how do I get better and how do I add more value to our program?

[01:21:26] Mike Klinzing: Makes sense. And yeah, that memory thing is amazing. The guy I worked with my first job as an assistant coach, he’d be like, “Do you remember that game in-” “… 1997-“

[01:21:34] Denny McDonnell: No. “…

[01:21:36] Mike Klinzing: where we played Hawkin and we were down by six with two minutes to go in the fourth quarter?”

Yes. “And then Steve stole the ball, and he laid it in, and then we had to f-” I’m like, “Dude, I don’t…” Like you s- I, I f- I have no re-” I’m like, “Are you making this up? Is this even real?” ‘Cause I wouldn’t know. I have no idea. It was… I would have no idea. But yeah, tho- those people always are amazing to me.

And the guy I worked for initially a- as a, as an assistant, yeah, he had the same, he had that same type of memory, and I certainly do not have that type of memory. Me either. There’s some things that I can grab onto, but not nearly what he can grab onto, let’s put it that way.

So- Yeah … all right. Last part of the three-part question.

[01:22:10] Denny McDonnell: Okay.

[01:22:11] Mike Klinzing: With what you get to do every day, what brings you the most joy about collectively what you get to do with the game of basketball?

[01:22:20] Denny McDonnell: I think it would be seeing others succeed, and I think as a coach, y- you have to be rooted in that. A- I think you’ve heard several people s- Krzyzewski said it for years, right?

“I’m a leader. I just happen to, I happen to coach basketball.” And so I think that at the core of things, that understanding I… That’s probably the most important. That’s what I would say.

[01:22:44] Mike Klinzing: Makes sense, and it dovetails with the entire conversation that we just had in talking about, again, the impact that you get to have on kids using the game of basketball as the conduit to be able to do that.

So before we wrap up, Denny, I want to give you a chance to share. How can people connect with you, find out more about what you’re doing? Share email, website- Yeah … social media, whatever you feel comfortable with. And then after you do that, I’ll jump back in and wrap things up.

[01:23:10] Denny McDonnell: Sounds good. E- I have a website.

It’s 4blegacy.com. It goes through everything that, that I do. You can set up with trainings there. Has my past, has background, all of the things that we covered today. And so that’s the first one. My Instagram is all basketball driven, and that’s 4B Legacy. You might see an occasional picture of my daughter in there, but she was never a hooper, so that was never our, her deal.

She played every sport but basketball. Here’s my f- I’m going to give you my one daughter story right here. She is now… She graduated from Grand Canyon University last year with a degree in psychology. But she played sports all through, softball and volleyball were her sports. And I never could get her to play.

I just, it just wasn’t her thing. She’s always “Dad, that’s your thing.” So the day before her eighth grade season, for the eighth grade basketball season, she calls me and she goes, “Hey, Dad, I need basketball shoes.” And I was like, ha, for what?” And she goes, “No, they talked me in. I’m going to go out next year.”

And I’m like, “You’re what?” She’s “Yeah, I’m going to play next year.” And I was like, “We could’ve been working the…” I come unglued. And somebody gets hurt. She ends up being a starting point guard on her eighth grade school team, and I’m a hot mess. I’m working my way down to the bench, telling her to start on the left corner so you only have to use your right hand all the way up.

But she just wouldn’t touch it, so that, that was my one daughter story. But 4B Legacy is my Instagram, 4blegacy.com. You can email me there. It’s denny@4vlegacy it’s pretty easy to find if you’re interested. I… there’s kids that I travel to and work with and train.

We’ll put together plans ahead of time. I’ll send them over to prove. So I’m not just a local guy. If you want to come to me or you want me to come to you those are things that I’ve all done.

[01:24:46] Mike Klinzing: Awesome. Denny, I cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule to join us tonight.

Really appreciate it. And to everyone out there, thanks for listening, and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.

[01:25:01] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Hoop Heads podcast, presented by Head Start Basketball