“THE TRIPLE DOUBLE” #20 WITH ROB BROST, BOLINGBROOK (IL) HIGH SCHOOL BOYS’ BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 1113
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The 20th episode of “The Triple Double” with Rob Brost, Bolingbrook (IL) High School Boys’ Basketball Head Coach. Rob, Mike, & Jason hit on three basketball topics in each episode of “The Triple Double”.
- What is the right amount of summer contact days for high school coaches to have with their players?
- What is the biggest mistake high school coaches make when looking for or taking a new job?
- What factors are driving high school coaches out of the profession and what can be done about it?
Be sure to follow us on Twitter and Instagram @hoopheadspod for the latest updates on episodes, guests, and events from the Hoop Heads Pod.
Be sure to have your notebook handy as you listen to “The Triple Double” with Rob Brost, Bolingbrook (IL) High School Boys’ Basketball Head Coach.
What We Discuss with Rob Brost
- What is the right amount of summer contact days for high school coaches to have with their players?
- What is the biggest mistake high school coaches make when looking for or taking a new job?
- What factors are driving high school coaches out of the profession and what can be done about it?
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No matter the passion for the game, and burning desire to help athletes develop, this level of responsibility can lead to burnout, inefficiency, and less time spent on actual coaching. You know it’s true.
When coaches are stretched too thin, it impacts the development of athletes, team morale, and the overall success of the program. Now here comes the outsiders throwing their two cents in about what’s happening. Then come the parents complaining about how you’re running things, as if they know what they’re talking about. When’s the last time you went to their place of work chiming in from outside their window?
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THANKS, ROB BROST
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TRANSCRIPT FOR “THE TRIPLE DOUBLE” #20 WITH ROB BROST, BOLINGBROOK (IL) HIGH SCHOOL BOYS’ BASKETBALL HEAD COACH – EPISODE 1113
[00:00:00] Narrator: The Hoop Heads Podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball.
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[00:01:05] Eric Demers: Hey, this is Eric Demers, Professional basketball player, and you’re listening to the Hoop Heads podcast.
[00:01:13] Mike Klinzing: Your first impression is everything when applying for a new coaching job. A professional coaching portfolio is the tool that highlights your coaching achievements and philosophies, and most of all helps separate you and your abilities from the other applicants. The coaching portfolio guide is an instructional membership based website.
That helps you develop a personalized portfolio. Each section of the portfolio guide provides detailed instructions on how to organize your portfolio in a professional manner. The guide also provides sample documents for each section of your portfolio that you can copy, modify, and add to your personal portfolio.
As a Hoop Heads Pod listener, you can get your coaching portfolio guide for just $25. Visit coachingportfolioguide.com/hoopheads to learn more.
Hello, and welcome to the Hoop Heads podcast. It’s Mike Klinzing here without my co-host Jason Sunkle, who is at Disney World with his family. But we are pleased to be joined for Triple Double #20. Rob Brost from Bolingbrook High School in Bolingbrook, Illinois. Coming on for our Triple Double #20. Rob, welcome in.
[00:02:27] Rob Brost: 20. That’s crazy. But I love it. It’s always great to be on with you and always great to talk and hopefully provide the listeners with some content that they’ll enjoy. And then b, maybe gleam a thing or two from.
[00:02:46] Mike Klinzing: Hoping that’s what we’re going to be able to do.
So we got three, I think, interesting topics tonight. The first one is off season access. Players, and anyone who knows sort of the landscape of high school basketball knows that there are all different types of rules across the different state federations. I know that in the state of Kentucky, you could pretty much practice year round with your entire team, and then there are other states where you might only have 10 days of access in the off season.
So let’s start with what the rules are. Illinois for those people who don’t know. And then talk to me a little bit about, and this is sort of the premise of the question, is, is the amount that you have too much, too little, just right.
[00:03:39] Rob Brost: Yeah. Well, I’ll get to the second part of that in a second, but the first part, what we have here in Illinois is for the entirety of my coaching career in Illinois we have had 25 contact days in the summer. And, but this year the IHSA and their infinite wisdom has lowered that down to 20. So now this summer for the first time in my career, we don’t get 25 days. We get 20. So I have no idea what the rationale for moving the days from 25 to 20 were or is, but obviously we’re going to abide by it.
And typically what happens in Illinois is most high schools use their 20 days now formally, 25 days. All in June. And then they give their guys back up to their AU teams in July for the most part, a day or two here, depending on when you get out of school, et cetera, et cetera. And then July is with their AU teams.
And then there’s a couple weeks off in August, obviously, and then you get back to your schedule when you get back to school. And in Illinois, all we can do. Is have open gym where it’s kind of free play and that’s it. And so certainly I’m sure there are schools and places where they do a lot more than open gym, quote unquote, but that’s not my thing to decipher what schools do or, or what they, what they want to do to.
Now moving into the second part of your question. I think here in Illinois, I think the 25 or the 20 days now, I think it’s way too little in my opinion because these guys are working out somewhere with someone almost every day of the week. And so I, I think it’s good to limit it, obviously. But I think that the limitation here is.
kind of goes overboard if you ask me. I know in Iowa they can pretty much, like you mentioned Kentucky, they can pretty much practice year round with their entire team and do whatever they want it. I understand the spirit of the rule here by the IHSA, that they don’t want kids overtaxed over.
doing too much so to speak. And so I, I get that, but kids nowadays are working out somewhere seven days a week it seems like, especially the elite kids. So that’s what we have here. I would like a little bit more the days, I guess the contact days that we call ’em here.
I think 25 was reasonable, but I, I think even one day a week in the fall would be fine. But we, we don’t even get that. We could have open gyms and those types of things, but we can’t instruct, do anything organized anything like that. An open gym literally has to be open to everybody. If a softball player comes to my open gym, I have to.
Softball player participate. If a badminton kid comes in to our open gym, they have to be allowed to go to the open gym. So that’s what we have here. I would like a little more, but I understand the, the spirit of it.
[00:07:15] Mike Klinzing: Are you allowed to condition in the fall? Are you allowed to weightlift and do running on the track or anything like that as an organized team activity?
Nothing organized,
[00:07:23] Rob Brost: nothing. Nothing organized. So that has, has to be open gym as well. So it has to be open to all students. So I mean, I suppose technically you could do whatever you wanted in your open gym, but there can’t be instruction relative to the sports during that time. And so it’s.
It’s up for interpretation, obviously depending on, on how you take it. So like for fall leagues for example if you are playing in a fall league, you can play in a fall league, but the coach can’t coach it or. I mean, he could go or she could go, but technically you’re just supposed to observe and that’s it.
And so we do have fall leagues and all of those things. Of course, like every state does. But technically the coaches can’t coach at all.
[00:08:14] Mike Klinzing: When you think about your. Former now currently 20 days, and I always go back and on, make terms of players are. Working out somewhere. They’re playing somewhere in some capacity.
Your better players are probably doing that every day. And when you look at things, right, and I always kind of compare it to me as the old man get off my lawn. Thinking back to the early days of my coaching career and my time as a player where I was out and I was playing pickup basketball, wherever, whether it was at.
Near my house, whether it was driving somewhere else to go and play. And obviously that ability to do that has been severely impacted by the fact that that kind of pickup basketball almost doesn’t. Right. And so, yeah, I think one of the arguments that I hear in terms of for more access is that players are getting coached, whether it’s by a trainer or an A a U coach or whoever it might be, and I.
In some cases, the qualifications of those individuals may not be at the same level as their high school coach. And obviously I think one of the arguments in favor of having more contact is the high school coach wanting to be able to have. A little bit more of an impact on the guys who are ultimately going to be on his team.
And I, I, when I, when I think about more access, I oftentimes just think about that, that if we’re going to put kids in front of adults, their high school coaches, usually a pretty good choice in terms of steering them, them in the right direction, both from a basketball standpoint, but also just from a relationships last impact point of view on, on those kids.
And so, I don’t know if that’s kind of one of the ways that you think about it.
[00:10:13] Rob Brost: There’s, there’s no doubt. I think that that’s true and, and I think the spirit of it. I, I understand it like I mentioned before, but I, I, I can foresee 10 years from now or 15 years from now, there’s like, all high schools are going to be intramurals because.
Kids are just going to want to play year round and there’ll be so many handcuffs put on the high schools. I can see that happening or I can see it going in that direction, and it’s already starting to go in that direction with elite players going off to prep schools. and now I think it’s going to be more and more kids because they can play year round.
There’s no limits on games. There’s no limits on travel. There’s no limits on really anything that they can do. And those. leagues, the Nike Prep League, and all of those things are just going to continue to expand as, as we move forward here. And I, I don’t think that’s necessarily good. But it, it, it is what it is and, and I think that’s the direction eventually that things are going to go.
[00:11:24] Mike Klinzing: Play devil’s advocate for a second and argue the other side of maybe where more access. Isn’t the right thing that maybe less or just kind of where you guys are at right now is maybe the right level to find? And I don’t know. I haven’t talked to anybody in a high school athletic association necessarily specifically about this, but when I just think about what it takes to be a high school coach, the amount of time.
That you’re being asked to put in during the season. Then you talk about the off season, and then you talk about the gigantic paycheck that you’re receiving for being a high school coach and the, the, the high hourly rate that you’re making when you calculate your salary compared to the hours that you’re putting in.
That, one of the arguments that. I think people on the other side of the debate would make is that we’re asking our high school coaches already to put in so much time for very little monetary compensation. Yeah. And then if we open it up like Iowa or like Kentucky, now you have coaches who are basically coaching 12 months a year for a very meager.
And so I wonder if part of that is almost, it’s almost like the NB owners, right? You have to a cap police yourself because there’s some guys who matter what. No matter what the rules are, they’re going to go right up to the, to the boundary and try to push beyond them. Yes. And so we need something to reign those guys in.
So I don’t know if you’ve talked to people Yeah. Sort of on the other side of that, just what your thoughts are in terms of that argument. I,
[00:13:06] Rob Brost: I think I have no argument against what you’re saying. In fact, I think our, our rule, if everybody followed it or there was actual enforcement of it, I.
when you have kids that play multiple sports and all of those things and give them the opportunity more so to do that. Right. And for me personally it is refreshing that you get a little bit of a break. certainly like from March until June, we don’t do much at all.
We don’t do any, we don’t do any open gyms unless a college coach calls, which. Happens a lot, but unless, unless somebody says, Hey, we’re going to be in town. Can you have an open gym? Then we’ll throw one together. But we don’t do anything open gym wise in the spring from the time we get done until the time we have.
Summer starts. So in a way that’s, that’s, that part’s refreshing. But it’s just like in the summer, the July period, when they go to their AAU team, AAU starts for a lot of our kids or travel basketball, whatever you want to call it, starts right after our season is done anyways. And sometimes it even, they try to start while our season is still going.
Of course that is against the rules at our place and in Illinois and couldn’t do that with. So I, I get all sides of it and I get what the spirit of the rule is. And I think ours with the 25 days was pretty good because it seemed reasonable. It wasn’t the whole summer, and we could still get our kit done with what we wanted to get done.
We could still play in shootouts on the weekends and all of that, but now even going down to 20 days, I have to skimp on my camp. I can only have camp Monday through Thursday. ’cause we’re playing in a couple shootouts during the live period events and those, all of those things count towards our 20 days.
And so now we’re almost crunched for for time. Whereas the 25 seemed very reasonable. I could have camp, we could go and play in all the shootouts on the weekends, and it was three or four weeks total, and then we were done. That seems pretty reasonable to me. The 20 days really jams a a lot in there because of course we’re going to play in the two live periods.
We have to play in those. And then we want to play in one or two things before the live periods. ’cause you don’t want your first game to be at the live period. So you know it. Now it’s really, really compacted with the 20 days compared to.
[00:15:51] Mike Klinzing: I had to go new school with your camp and not go five days. People still ask me, Rob, I have parents all the time to come to me and they’re like, now we don’t have camp on Friday.
Right? And I’m like, yeah, we do. I’m an old school guy. We have camp on Friday. We’re not, we’re not running a three day camp or a four day camp. This is, this is the way we’re going hardcore all the way through, all the way through five days. I think the one other argument that you sometimes hear and. It’s relevant, I think, not only to high school basketball, but I’ve talked to some division one guys.
When you think about the access that Division one coaches have to their players Yeah. Compared to what it was at one time, where there really wasn’t all this summer activity and workouts, and one of the things that I’ve always talked to those guys about when I’ve had ’em on the podcast is, how do you make sure that.
You’re not wearing on your players, that they’re not hearing those same voices 12 months out of the year that you can kind of no doubt escape. And I know whenever I talk to a head coach or even an assistant, almost consistently, the message is. We let the assistants handle that summer stuff for the most part.
Yeah. The head coach is there and overseeing, but the head coach’s voice isn’t being heard very much in the off season because you just don’t want to wear players out, no doubt. I think that goes back to kind of when you’re talking about if you had 12 month access every single day. I feel like personally that both sides players and coaches.
The potential for burning out on seeing no doubt each other, no doubt. Every single day would be, would be a lot.
[00:17:22] Rob Brost: There’s no doubt. I mean, our, our season is long as it is. Typically we start the first week of November and then hopefully, usually in our case, we’re playing to the second week of March.
Right. And so that’s, that’s a long time. Just that. And so we, we do things to wared against what you were just talking about 45 minute practices. Sometimes we just shoot and we’re done. Sometimes it’s just film and we’re done all of those things. So sometimes we go positional groups by the end of the season where some guys get the day off completely.
So we’re, we’re fighting that already in the, in college. Especially at the division one level, they’re really fighting that because of exactly what you mentioned, because they’re allowed it’s limited
even can.
[00:18:15] Mike Klinzing: It can get, it can get intense. There’s no question about it. And like I said, when it’s the same, when the interactions are the same, when it’s the same group of people interacting, it just feels like sometimes everybody needs to be able to step back and take a deep breath and, and recharge. Right.
So you can come back and be ready to go, be excited to go as it’s, as opposed to, it’s just something that we’ve been doing year round, day after day after day after day after day, and. There’s very few coaches who would say, I want less access. Right? Right. I want less access to my players. We all, we all want more access ’cause we want to be able to help our kids to get better and we want to be able to impact ’em as people.
And so I think that’s the, that’s probably the bottom line. Yep. No doubt. So pick number two. Biggest mistake that high school coaches make when they’re looking for a new job or ultimately when they. Take a new job. So I guess what I was trying to angle at with this question, at least in my mind, is what makes for a good high school job?
What makes for a bad high school job? What are some things that, in your experience and from talking to guys that you’ve seen, change programs, take new jobs, what are things that they should be looking for? What are things they should be looking to avoid?
[00:19:26] Rob Brost: Well, let me, let me just start by saying I’m lucky because I’ve been at the same place for, this will be my 18th season.
I’ve had two athletic directors. I like, love them both. And that makes my perspective on this question a little different than a lot of people’s. I, I, I think the one thing that I. One of my assistants just interviewed and got one of the top high school jobs here in Illinois. And so now he’s a head coach and obviously a month ago he wasn’t a head coach and so I, I think I.
The helping him through that process has kind of helped me with this very question. I, I think you, you have to just take everything into account, if that makes sense. And there’s issues everywhere and a lot of times the issues are very similar every place. And people think, and coaches think. Sometimes educators and teachers think, well, school X doesn’t have any problems like what we have.
Well, yes they do. They might not be exactly the same as yours, but they’re probably very similar. And so whenever you get the human interaction that we have with players, coaches. Administrators, parents, booster club members, all the different constituencies that affect a high school basketball program those are going to bring issues.
And so I, I think if you go into it, understanding that there’s going to be issues everywhere and that there’s no perfect place, and that your main focus is on the main thing. This is what I told my assistant several times. He, we just talked this morning and he’s in his first week of camp ’cause he just got the job and all of this.
So he said, and I said, just, just keep the main thing, the main thing. And the main thing are the players that are in your program. And that’s the main thing. And so my biggest bit of advice would be to keep the main thing, the main thing. And that’s always, at least in my. Position is the players.
It’s the players. And are the players getting out of it what they should and what they deserve to get out of it. And are they at an advantage because you’re their coach? And if the answer to that is no, then you better reevaluate that whole thing. And so, I also think that many people don’t understand the holistic picture or the holistic approach that you have to take when you are the head coach and how different that is from sitting one seat over.
Even as the assistant or certainly like being in the stands or even being an administrator, sometimes they don’t quite understand. The issues that head coaches have to deal with. And so I don’t know if it’s my job necessarily for them to understand it, but I need to understand it, right? And I need to be able to deal with and handle all of those things and stuff that you would never think of.
Like, is the pep band going to play today? Or do we have our regular warmup music? Something as simple as that. Can really throw off your whole thing. And so those are issues that you don’t think of. The booster club sometimes for us gives students a free hot dog and chips and a pop if they come to the game.
Like, those things are really cool. And, and I know every school has their things, but I. just dealing with all of those things, what music are we going to have? Is the bus going to be on time? Like just a myriad of issues that you wouldn’t think of. And like my assistant said the other day, before he went to, he was like, I, I don’t even know where the basketballs are.
I don’t know where the practice gear is for our summer league games. I, I don’t know where the jerseys are and, and just things you would never think that are issues become issues. And I think you have to keep the main thing, the main thing and then just realize you get, you’re just going to have to do the best you can with, with the information that you have.
But I, I think there’s so many factors. That play into having a successful port program that it’s much more vast than the average person realizes.
[00:24:13] Mike Klinzing: How important do you think the administration is, whether that’s your ad, your principal going up to your superintendent, and do you think it’s possible in the course of the interview process and through your own research into a job?
To figure out whether or not you are going to have a supportive and a supportive administration that’s going to have your back. Because to me, when I think about, yeah, the experiences that I’ve had personally, the experiences that guys I know who are in coaching, who have had success, or who’ve been in places where it’s been a challenge, the difficulty with.
An administration that is non-supportive makes it hard for. You to keep the main thing, the main thing because you’re constantly being pushed and cajoled in a direction that you may feel is not in the best interest of your program and your players. So I’m just curious for your perspective, is there any way to, to know that going into the process or is there some questions I could ask if I’m a, if I’m a coach that’s interviewing, just want to get your thoughts on that.
[00:25:31] Rob Brost: Let me just say this, that I think it’s beyond critical. I would say it’s mandatory to have the support of admin and support. I don’t know exactly what that means, but I can tell you how it feels from what the seat that I sit in. And so I have said to many people especially this year when the whole Hall of Fame thing happened and all that, I could not do what I do without.
An effective athletic director and an effective principal that supports what I’m doing. And not just what I’m doing, but what we are doing and supports the vision of the program and all of those things. And so that’s hard these days because everybody’s, it’s hard to support sometimes because. everybody’s going to complain and everybody’s going to make issues with that.
So I think to the best that you can, you have to find out those as much information as you can before you go into a job or before you even take a job. And I’ll, I’ll share with you just a couple stories. I have one colleague of mine, this was about 10 years ago. He is still coaching now, and he, he does a great job.
And they went like, I think it. One or 29 and one in the regular season. And I said, Tim, man, this must have be your dream season man. It’s got, he said, it’s been the worst experience of my career that those were his exact words. And I said, what do you mean? And he said, I’m constantly sitting in meetings with numbers.
8, 9, 10, 11, and their parents, because my admin is listening to these people and I’m constantly in these meetings with with them, and so it’s taken me away from the team and they were something in one, like I said, and ranked in the top five at least, maybe even number one. I can’t remember the specifics, but I do remember him saying that to me and I am just thankful beyond.
beyond anything that I could measure that I’m not in that position. And we’ve had records similar to that, but I don’t have that experience with, with all of that. So I would say as much as you can find all that stuff out, the better. But I think any admin that wants to be successful needs to support.
The vision of the coach, or they need to find a new coach that they can find the vision for. And I’ve said to my athletic director a million times, Hey, when you want a new coach, you’re going to get no fight from me. You don’t have to like, you just have to say, Hey Rob, I think it’s time we, no problem. Hey, you think you can find somebody that’s better than me at doing this?
That’s no problem. Like if you’re not. On with what I’m doing. I totally get it. Like it’s not a big deal. So I think as best you can, you have to find out the answers to those questions and that would start with talking to other coaches, especially head coaches at those places, at the places where you’re interviewing.
Talking to, I, I don’t know how you would go about doing this, but if you could talk to some parents, but in this day and age, you can find out information if you want it. Right. And so I think you need to find it out as much information as you can to before you go full speed. After a position.
And, and I’ve been fortunate that some athletic directors have come after me to take other jobs. But I’ve declined all of those calls or whatever you want to call it. So I, I think it’s just when you find a place that you, you can get comfortable, they share the vision and.
You can have some success there. One of my mentors once told me, don’t take any job where you cannot finish higher than, or that you’ll be in the bottom half of the league regularly. Only take jobs that are in the top half of the league regularly. Like everybody’s going to have their year or two here or there, but if you regularly aren’t going to.
Being the top half the league, that’s going to be a tough job for a, a long period of time. So anyways, those are just some tidbits and, and some things I haven’t ever, you know. Been looking for a job here, at least in the last 17, 18 years here. So and, and my hope is not to ever be looking for one. Now, if I want to change jobs and go to something else or go to the college level when tray’s done those are all options.
But I think you have to find out as much information as possible. And, and then when you go into it I think you have to take all of those things into account.
[00:30:40] Mike Klinzing: Don’t just take a job. Try to take the right job. Not that you can be a hundred percent guaranteed that you’re taking the right job, but do as much due diligence as you can to make sure, no question that you’re taking not just a job, but you’re taking the right job.
High school and middle school basketball program directors, listen closely. Coaches are expected to do far more than just coach. You know this. It doesn’t matter if you’re doing the coaching yourself or you have a full staff of coaches with you. You know very well that coaches handle scheduling, academic issues, parent communication, leadership development, and even mental health concerns for athletes a lot to deal with.
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All right. That leads us into topic number three. Topic number three is coaches who have. Left the profession, and I know you and I have talked about this. Yeah. Maybe not necessarily on the podcast, but just kind of in our conversations pre or post over the years, guys that have left the profession, what are you hearing from coaches who have left the profession?
What are the drivers that are causing them to leave high school coaching and then we can kind of. Maybe try to spin it positive in that, well, how can we try to correct those problems or what can we do to mitigate those problems for coaches out there to help coaches stay in the profession?
[00:32:57] Rob Brost: I think, and this is a kind of a general answer, it’s the general crazy of the entire basketball landscape, I think is what really drives.
Coaches out. Now obviously there’s specific things to that, but the,
[00:33:17] Mike Klinzing: it’s going to be easy to fix, Rob. This will be easy. This will be easy. That’s going to be super easy to fix. I love that answer. You
[00:33:22] Rob Brost: know, I love that answer. Think there’s, there’s just a general crazy around the game of basketball, especially right now, and, and it’s landscape and, and I think whether you.
bring up parents. You bring up recruiting, you bring up college coaches, you bring up admin, you bring up all the things that we were just talking about in the previous question that play into being a part of a big program and a successful program. It takes a lot of people and it takes a lot of people pulling in the same direction.
It’s really, really hard and I think because it’s really, really hard when you find a person or persons who can lead something like that, then a lot of people want to jump on. So that, that goes to your point, like, how can we fix it? Well, you find somebody that can actually handle. All of the things that we’re talking about to the best of their ability.
Certainly nobody’s perfect and nobody can do all of those things really, really, really well. But there are people who are better at it than than others. Right? And I think those people are rare. But they do exist. People that are in it for the right reasons. People that you want to want to do. Right by kids, people that aren’t in it for selfish reasons.
all of those things are just kind of a starting point for the thing. But it can wear on you and it, it does wear on you. And, and I know that from experience, but I think if you have a perspective over the entire thing and then you have some. Moniker of, I don’t want to say talent, but you can handle those things.
You have a talent of kind of managing all of those things and all of the factors that play into the program. Then I think people want to be a part of that, and that helps you deal with a lot of the things that come up because people want to help you with all of those things. And so that, and now in this day and age, sometimes people don’t even get.
Long enough to get a chance to get it to where they can show that they can handle it, and they either get removed or they quit, or parents run ’em out or admin gets impatient with them. All of those things can happen, but I think the general craziness of the landscape of basketball is what. Does people in, and the amount of time that it takes to cultivate the relationships that it takes to do all of it, if that makes sense.
And it, it’s sounds simplistic, but it’s really, really complicated to, to get it done. And it’s, it’s hard to explain over, over a podcast, but we’ll do the best we can right here for sure.
[00:36:24] Mike Klinzing: I think you’re a hundred percent right in that there is a ton of different things that are going on in the game of basketball that make the job of a high school coach difficult.
And I think all those things I. It’s difficult to pinpoint necessarily one of them. ’cause they all play off almost like a teeter-totter, right? Of yes, you got this and if you have pro parents that are difficult, but you have a good administration that can help to balance the teeter-totter. ’cause the administration is going to head off some of those problems with the parent.
If you have a. Poor administration, that’s not going to be as supportive as they need to be. Now maybe you only have one parent problem, but that can quickly balloon into something much more when you don’t get the support. And I, I can speak from just my experience with people who have either left the coaching profession or even people who are currently still in the coaching profession.
I think it goes back to what you described with your friend who went 30 and one and said it was. The worst experience, the worst season of his coaching career, and so much of what determines whether or not the season is enjoyable. Forget about whether it’s enjoyable wins and losses on the scoreboard, but whether it’s an enjoyable experience.
To me, what I’ve heard from coaches is ultimately parents make the experience. Far, far worse for coaches, regardless of one loss record. If you have a set of supportive parents who behave in the right way, cheer for everybody on the team are not just concerned with their own child’s success or failure, but they’re really looking at the whole entire picture and they have a perspective that I think generally speaking, you’re going to have a positive.
Experience during your season and look, obviously if you win more it’s more fun. But at the same time, I know lots of coaches and I could speak for myself and you could probably say the same thing, that there’s been seasons where maybe you weren’t as successful wins and losses wise, but you’re like, I love that team.
Like they were just so much fun to coach and there wasn’t any drama. And yeah, maybe we weren’t as talented that year or whatever, but we all were pulling that. Rope in the same direction. And then you have other years like your buddy who goes 30 and one and it’s like, this is miserable because you got parents complaining.
You got parents who are doing this or doing that. And almost anybody that I talk to that’s frustrated with the profession, it’s starts with. Parents who just don’t understand what it’s all about. And that goes back to your point of the whole basketball landscape. The way that we have constructed youth basketball in this country has put such a focus on 7, 8, 9 year olds running up and down.
Yes. A 94 foot floor playing five on five, chucking up, threes being videoed, being put on social media.
[00:39:36] Rob Brost: Yes.
[00:39:36] Mike Klinzing: Being. All these things other than kids who just want to play a game, but instead we’ve wrapped identity of the kid, the parent, the, the team, the club, the everything. It’s wrapped up into all this stuff that becomes so important.
And then you have parents who don’t understand the landscape of, and you and I have talked about this in regards to. My 10-year-old needs to be playing in some circuit games and we’ve have to be doing this. And you’re like, you don’t, you don’t even understand what the landscape is. And I, I think that, again, it’s, it’s parent education and no doubt it starts young and it’s, it’s just, I don’t want to say it’s an unsolvable problem.
Man, it is a, it is a difficult problem to solve and I think USA basketball is, is really trying to do a good job of, with the coach education and those kinds of things and, and taking steps, moving in that direction. But we need a parent. You need a parent education course. So you have to, you have to pay before, before you can pay your $25 to go watch a an a a U game on a Friday night.
Yeah, you should have to take a, take a 15 minute course on perspective as a.
[00:40:52] Rob Brost: And, and I, I, I say this at our parents’ meeting, like if your son in our case, but you could use son or daughter if, if how they play is the only thing you’re worried about here. This is the not the place for you. ’cause they’re going to play, they’re not going to play well all the time.
We’re not going to play well all the time and we’re going to lose games that we shouldn’t lose. And it’s going to happen more than once in a season. It might happen multiple times. So like you mentioned, the perspective, just the perspective of especially parents, whether that’s the 15th guy or the kid you cut or even I have this morning and a couple parents want to know why.
Is there kid on the the JV court instead of the varsity court? Well, I have 20 already on the varsity court and you know what I mean? So it’s just, it’s just the perspective of some people. And the argument is, well, Johnny, well, he scored 13 in his game two weekends ago with X, Y, Z team and get.
I don’t want to say like we’re the Los Angeles Lakers or something like that, but we we’re really good for a high school program. So it somebody’s have to be on all the courts so and I have decisions to make to just at least place them there. And I already have over 20 on the varsity court.
So, anyways, that’s just a, a little example of what you’re saying and it, it permeates all the way down. Like all to the freshmen and then even to the eighth graders at our middle schools and all of those things, and parents think if I have the best eighth grader, then the best eighth grader’s going to for sure be on the varsity next and all of those things.
And not at bowlingbrook. Usually that’s not going to happen like. It might happen at a smaller school, but it’s probably not going to, now we’ve had several, but it’s probably not going to ha So anyways, the, the perspective of parents especially would be so helpful. And sometimes it’s not their fault ’cause they’ve never been told the truth and they’ve never been told what’s actually happening.
Right. And, and what’s actually going on in the basketball world and sometimes. When we provide them with the truth for the first time, that really throws them off so much that they’re angry about it. And so I try not to ever be rude to anyone or anything like that, but I do try to tell people the truth as best I can.
The truth was still giving them some suggestion of hope of what they can do moving forward, given wherever their position is. Right. And so that’s just one thing that I try to do, but, and I’m sure most coaches tried to do that as well.
[00:43:55] Mike Klinzing: Yeah. And I think that goes back to what we talked about earlier, right?
That if you’re telling a player the hard truth, something that maybe they haven’t heard. Before, and then that parent goes and complains to your athletic director or your principal or whatever. Yep. If your principal or your athletic director entertains every single one of those. Complaints and then brings them to you and forces you to sit in a meeting and explain yourself over and over and over again, that wears on you.
That makes it very difficult, and let’s face it, as human beings, one of the things that I think is human, human nature is you might have 50 kids in your program. 49 of ’em are. Unbelievably happy as are their parents, and the one outlier, which is the 2%, right? If it’s one person outta 50, that’s the person that we tend to then focus our energy or our concern, oh, this person, what?
What am I doing wrong? Why is this person upset? Instead of looking at the other side and saying, 98% of the people that I’m dealing with. Are a hundred percent on board and maybe the problem isn’t me, maybe the problem is that, that that 2%, that, that one, that one group, and, and in order for that to happen, you have to have a supportive family.
I go back to the very, yes, I think it was the, maybe the second or third second or third interview I ever did on the hoop podcast. Had a guy on Sean O’Toole who he was. Long time high school coach here in the Cleveland area. He’s been the president of the Greater Cleveland Basketball Coaches Association for a long time.
He is currently the athletic director at Gilmore Academy, and I’ll never forget what he said to me in the course of our conversation. He said Mike, what I have to do is when I’m the head coach. He goes, ultimately, I’m going to have lots of people coming at me with opinions, complaints, ideas, things that they want to be different or things that they think should be, and he said, what I started doing very early on in my career is I put everything through the filter of when I go to bed at night and I put my head down on the pillow.
Did I do what I thought was best for the kids in our program and our program? Totality. And if I could put my head on the pillow and know that the decision that I made was made in the best interest of our program, not necessarily best interest of one kid, or not necessarily in the best interest of my assistant coach or whatever, but the program in total, then I know I would be able to sleep at night.
And I think that is something that I’ve tried to take and think about that not just in terms of athletics, but just in terms of life. Right. And the decisions that you and things. To me, it, it, it brings, it brings everything into perspective and helps me to understand as a coach what’s important. It’s ultimately, it’s ultimately the program that I’m responsible for.
And to your point, right. The main thing being the main thing, the, the program is the players. It’s the players.
[00:47:09] Rob Brost: No doubt. That’s when we have our staff meetings for our basketball staff. I, that’s how I started off. The most important thing in our program is the players. And we’ve talked about this in other pods.
I want our kids to be as comfortable as possible when they get onto the floor. And so I get that whole, you have to make them do uncomfortable.
They’re fed, they’re not sick, that they have the right gear, that they are, that they have everything so that they can perform to their highest potential. So anyways, what, that’s another whole pod for us to, to get into, but I think you’re exactly right and it’s a tough. Landscape right now in the world of basketball.
And I’ve told several people this. I’m glad I’m on my downward fall. I mean, not fall as far as success, but I’m glad I’m getting more towards the end than I am at the beginning because the landscape is just so I can’t even, bizarre is not the right word, but it’s just, there’s a lot of issues out there.
I’ll just leave it at that. And I’m very. Happy and blessed to be where I’m at. And I’m happy and blessed that they allow me to do the work that I do and that everybody’s supportive of it. Not everybody, but most people. And, and I’m going to keep doing it as long as they think that it’s good.
And as, like I said before, as long when they tell me it’s not. What they want. No problem. I There’s going to be no like, thing, like, I can’t believe this or No problem. You just let me know. Hey, we’re going to go on a different, okay, no problem. I’ll do triple doubles with Mike once a week instead of once a month.
And there we go. then I’ll be, then I’ll be off to the race and then I’ll come and speak at your camps and, and, and help you out. So I like, I like it. May maybe I’m looking forward to that. Maybe I’m ready for that. There we go. We’ll see. That’s it. We’ll see what happens.
[00:49:11] Mike Klinzing: Who knows, man, who knows? I’m going to be retired in October, Rob. We’ll figure something out. We’ll have to figure something out.
[00:49:16] Rob Brost: Yeah, that’s great.
[00:49:17] Mike Klinzing: Let’s put it this way. If somebody would’ve written an essay for you about what the basketball landscape looks like today and handed that to you 18 years ago, you would’ve looked at it and said, This has to be a complete and utter work of fiction. I don’t think anybody, let’s put it this way. If we could design the system from grassroots basketball to high school basketball to yes, high level AAU to what’s going on in college basketball to NBA eligibility to everything that’s going on I don’t think if we started it from scratch and designed the best possible system that this is what we’ve ended up with, so…
[00:50:00] Rob Brost: I would hope not. I would hope, we’re not the two smartest guys on the planet, but I think we’re smarter than what’s actually happened in the basketball landscape. That’s for sure.
[00:50:11] Mike Klinzing: No doubt about that. All right, Rob, thank you for jumping on tonight for Triple Double #20.
Really appreciate it. And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks.
[00:50:25] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Hoop Heads Podcast presented by Head Start basketball.